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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 128	Posted - 2014.12.15 11:39:00 - [1] - Quote Are you also going to be addressing the disparity between armor and shield HAVs while your doing this? (Theory-crafting out some numbers using the Combat Battlecruisers for the MBTs, Attack Battlecruisers for the Enforcers, and Combat Battleships for the Marauders as a base...I'm also going to reference the heavy frame vs the Sentinal vs the Commando)... a quick question, is it possible for you to integrate a role bonus (Single, flat bonus) into a hull/skill instead of one that increases per level? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 128	Posted - 2014.12.15 16:28:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I think the generalist tanks should have more slots, while the specialized tanks get fewer. The generalists will build their tank exactly how they like it, while the specialists will have the tank pre-built, with just a limited amount of modification allowed. So Madrugar and Gunnlogi? 7 total high/low slots. Enforcers and Marauders? 5 total slots. This I really like the idea of (Like tech 2 ships in eve loosing a rig slot and calibration), but it would require a major overhaul of the existing vehicle modules...(which they kinda already need...) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 131	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:40:00 - [3] - Quote My idea for bonuses to these tech 2 (Specialized) HAVs: Marauders - 6 passenger slots (1 pilot, 2 gunners, 3 passengers) serve as a Frontline bastion to support infantry, and give people a reason to want bring in enforcers to take them out (should be about 4-6 AVers to take them out) -25% Damage to Large Turret - FLAT +25% Damage to Small Turrets - FLAT 10% reduction in Small Turret Fitting Cost per Level 2% Increase to Shield and Armor HP per Level Caldari Marauder 2% shield Resistance per level 5% Cooldown Reduction for Shield Modules per level Gallente Marauder 5% to the efficacy of Armor repairers and hardeners per level 5% Bonus to active durration of armor modules per level Enforcer - Tank Destroyers following the racial flavors (I'm saying that Duvolle bought the recalled Rodan shipyards missile hardpoints) could be taken out with combined light weapons fire 5% bonus to large turret damage per level 2% bonus to engine torque per level Reduced Resistance to Small-arms fire Caldari Enforcer - Powerful, largely fixed main gun...think the Cerberus role 10% bonus to Large Railgun and Large Missile Turret Range per level 10% reduced spool-up time per level 15% penalty to Tracking - FLAT Gallente Enforcer - Fast and deadly up close, think the Deimos 5% Reduction in heat buildup for Large Blaster per level 10% Reduction in Large Missile Turret Reload Delay per level 5% bonus to Tracking per level Just throwing out some ideas I had today... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 131	Posted - 2014.12.16 23:57:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: My idea for bonuses to these tech 2 (Specialized) HAVs: Marauders - 6 passenger slots (1 pilot, 2 gunners, 3 passengers) serve as a Frontline bastion to support infantry, and give people a reason to want bring in enforcers to take them out (should be about 4-6 AVers to take them out) -25% Damage to Large Turret - FLAT +25% Damage to Small Turrets - FLAT 10% reduction in Small Turret Fitting Cost per Level 2% Increase to Shield and Armor HP per Level Caldari Marauder 2% shield Resistance per level 5% Cooldown Reduction for Shield Modules per level Gallente Marauder 5% to the efficacy of Armor repairers and hardeners per level 5% Bonus to active durration of armor modules per level Enforcer - Tank Destroyers following the racial flavors (I'm saying that Duvolle bought the recalled Roden shipyards missile hardpoints) could be taken out with combined light weapons fire 5% bonus to large turret damage per level 2% bonus to engine torque per level Reduced Resistance to Small-arms fire Caldari Enforcer - Powerful, largely fixed main gun...think the Cerberus role 10% bonus to Large Railgun and Large Missile Turret Range per level 10% reduced spool-up time per level 15% penalty to Tracking - FLAT Gallente Enforcer - Fast and deadly up close, think the Deimos 5% Reduction in heat buildup for Large Blaster per level 10% Reduction in Large Missile Turret Reload Delay per level 5% bonus to Tracking per level Just throwing out some ideas I had today... Your Marauder is what the MAV should be with Medium Turrets. I would suggest putting on 2 more small turrets as sponsons and another one facing back...but I don't know if that's even possible XD (If it isn't obvious, I really want an MAV...or a Baneblade (Stormlord)...) but in this case a really heavy version of the MAV Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 133	Posted - 2014.12.18 22:53:00 - [5] - Quote Adamance, what do you think a good regeneration time on a Gunnlogi should be? (I've been working on some fitting numbers to go with my bonuses) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 133	Posted - 2014.12.18 23:31:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Adamance, what do you think a good regeneration time on a Gunnlogi should be? (I've been working on some fitting numbers to go with my bonuses) I think on a passive tanked Shield HAV (this is an HAV without an Active Repair Module..... A Regen Modded Tank could have a 100 second to full (from fully depleted) A non Regen Modded HAV could be in excess of two and a half minutes. Bearing in mind an Armour tank will never regenerate its HP unless assisted by a rep module or an outside source. @ a Supply depot this is at a rate of 100 HP per second Under friendly repairs that is maybe 150 per second but requires another player or you to leave your vehicle Under an Active Repper that is 414 per pulse 5x for a 30 second duration and a 30 second cool down unmodified and assuming the old Efficienct Heavy Active Repper. Remember these are passive benefits that only shield HAV have, they do not have to fit a module to get their primary HP tank to regenerate, this is a constant passive status that is not interrupted, and this is a statistic that will work in conjunction with with active regenerative modules. Even lowered to the old values a Shield HAV will not only have greater regenerative power but an additional constant repair value while under fire amounting to what is effectively a small damage resistance buff. I know it's a shield tanking only benefit, I was thinking somewhere in that ballpark to recharge, but on the lower end to maintain dust pacing, and then put a flat regen bonus on shield extenders to maintain the recharge time artificially...with the hopeful re-introduction of high buffer plates, and a rebalance of the fitting values, it will hopefully balance out in the end with the shear amount of armor that armor based HAVs could back Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 133	Posted - 2014.12.18 23:39:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Adamance, what do you think a good regeneration time on a Gunnlogi should be? (I've been working on some fitting numbers to go with my bonuses) I think on a passive tanked Shield HAV (this is an HAV without an Active Repair Module..... A Regen Modded Tank could have a 100 second to full (from fully depleted) A non Regen Modded HAV could be in excess of two and a half minutes. Bearing in mind an Armour tank will never regenerate its HP unless assisted by a rep module or an outside source. @ a Supply depot this is at a rate of 100 HP per second Under friendly repairs that is maybe 150 per second but requires another player or you to leave your vehicle Under an Active Repper that is 414 per pulse 5x for a 30 second duration and a 30 second cool down unmodified and assuming the old Efficienct Heavy Active Repper. Remember these are passive benefits that only shield HAV have, they do not have to fit a module to get their primary HP tank to regenerate, this is a constant passive status that is not interrupted, and this is a statistic that will work in conjunction with with active regenerative modules. Even lowered to the old values a Shield HAV will not only have greater regenerative power but an additional constant repair value while under fire amounting to what is effectively a small damage resistance buff. I know it's a shield tanking only benefit, I was thinking somewhere in that ballpark to recharge, but on the lower end to maintain dust pacing, and then put a flat regen bonus on shield extenders to maintain the recharge time artificially...with the hopeful re-introduction of high buffer plates, and a rebalance of the fitting values, it will hopefully balance out in the end with the shear amount of armor that armor based HAVs could back Reread above post I amended it with the basic old HAV numbers. Again the above suggestion of between 100 seconds and 150 seconds is only when a tank is solely relying on passive shield recharge. It is significantly lower if you are being Logi'd (remote shield transporter) or using a Booster yourself. oh I meant I was leaning towards the 100-120ish range instead of including all the way up to 150...(although I do acknowledge that 150 may be more reasonable) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 133	Posted - 2014.12.19 02:15:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: I think on a passive tanked Shield HAV (this is an HAV without an Active Repair Module..... A Regen Modded Tank could have a 100 second to full (from fully depleted) A non Regen Modded HAV could be in excess of two and a half minutes. Bearing in mind an Armour tank will never regenerate its HP unless assisted by a rep module or an outside source. @ a Supply depot this is at a rate of 100 HP per second Under friendly repairs that is maybe 150 per second but requires another player or you to leave your vehicle Under an Active Repper that is 414 per pulse 5x for a 30 second duration and a 30 second cool down unmodified and assuming the old Efficienct Heavy Active Repper. Remember these are passive benefits that only shield HAV have, they do not have to fit a module to get their primary HP tank to regenerate, this is a constant passive status that is not interrupted, and this is a statistic that will work in conjunction with with active regenerative modules. Even lowered to the old values a Shield HAV will not only have greater regenerative power but an additional constant repair value while under fire amounting to what is effectively a small damage resistance buff. I know it's a shield tanking only benefit, I was thinking somewhere in that ballpark to recharge, but on the lower end to maintain dust pacing, and then put a flat regen bonus on shield extenders to maintain the recharge time artificially...with the hopeful re-introduction of high buffer plates, and a rebalance of the fitting values, it will hopefully balance out in the end with the shear amount of armor that armor based HAVs could back Reread above post I amended it with the basic old HAV numbers. Again the above suggestion of between 100 seconds and 150 seconds is only when a tank is solely relying on passive shield recharge. It is significantly lower if you are being Logi'd (remote shield transporter) or using a Booster yourself. oh I meant I was leaning towards the 100-120ish range instead of including all the way up to 150...(although I do acknowledge that 150 may be more reasonable) The more total EHP you stack the longer it will take you to regenerate it all. I want to try to make it more like it is on the starships, where the hull has a recharge time and adding buffer doesn't change the time to recharge Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 134	Posted - 2014.12.20 22:39:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Oh another thing, rockets should be put in (a more balanced version of current "missiles", and yes, I think ganking someone in under 10 seconds in the biggest current controllable thing is not balanced), and actual missiles should be put in. More of the higher alpha, higher range ability (maybe raise the velocity, add a small amount of passive tracking?), lower ROF (I'd say even semi auto). And where's my Gallente rails. Technically all railguns are Gallentean. Technically...Railguns and Blasters both originated back when the Caldari People where part of the Gallente Federation making the technology in New Eden a Gallente Invention (although I haven't seen it mentioned if the Amarr went through a Magnetic Acceleration weaponry phase or not), but modern Rail Technology is largely designed by the Caldari while modern Blasters are largely designed by the Gallente but even still, remain completely interchangeable (I guess the reasoning in lorre would be Legacy Purposes?) but Caldari bonuses tend to emphasize the Range for Rails, while Gallente tend to emphasize tracking on Blasters (Amplifying the weapon system's strengths) Note: I said Largely...not entirely Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 134	Posted - 2014.12.21 02:07:00 - [10] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Oh another thing, rockets should be put in (a more balanced version of current "missiles", and yes, I think ganking someone in under 10 seconds in the biggest current controllable thing is not balanced), and actual missiles should be put in. More of the higher alpha, higher range ability (maybe raise the velocity, add a small amount of passive tracking?), lower ROF (I'd say even semi auto). And where's my Gallente rails. Technically all railguns are Gallentean. Technically...Railguns and Blasters both originated back when the Caldari People where part of the Gallente Federation making the technology in New Eden a Gallente Invention (although I haven't seen it mentioned if the Amarr went through a Magnetic Acceleration weaponry phase or not), but "modern" Rail Technology is largely designed by the Caldari while "modern" Blasters are largely designed by the Gallente but even still, remain completely interchangeable (I guess the reasoning in lorre would be Legacy Purposes?) but Caldari bonuses tend to emphasize the Range for Rails, while Gallente tend to emphasize tracking on Blasters (Amplifying the weapon system's strengths) Note: I said Largely...not entirely Not entirely true, many Gallente ships uses rails vastly over blasters. Myrmidon with rails imo beats the **** out of a blaster one, and CCP lore wise shows this off in Templar One. Please note the note...also note that I said they remain completely interchangeable (Baltec Megathron uses Rails and a Blaster Rokh...well that's obvious) just they get bonuses primarily focuses on the strengths of their "racially favored" weapon system Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 134	Posted - 2014.12.21 04:04:00 - [11] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Technically all railguns are Gallentean. Technically...Railguns and Blasters both originated back when the Caldari People where part of the Gallente Federation making the technology in New Eden a Gallente Invention (although I haven't seen it mentioned if the Amarr went through a Magnetic Acceleration weaponry phase or not), but "modern" Rail Technology is largely designed by the Caldari while "modern" Blasters are largely designed by the Gallente but even still, remain completely interchangeable (I guess the reasoning in lorre would be Legacy Purposes?) but Caldari bonuses tend to emphasize the Range for Rails, while Gallente tend to emphasize tracking on Blasters (Amplifying the weapon system's strengths) Note: I said Largely...not entirely Not entirely true, many Gallente ships uses rails vastly over blasters. Myrmidon with rails imo beats the **** out of a blaster one, and CCP lore wise shows this off in Templar One. Please note the note...also note that I said they remain completely interchangeable (Baltec Megathron uses Rails and a Blaster Rokh...well that's obvious) just they get bonuses primarily focuses on the strengths of their "racially favored" weapon system You said largely, which is just wrong, because it's more half and half for Gallente. I was referring to the development of the turret weapons themselves, who's designs pretty clearly follow the racial design patterns (and lorre-wise where largely developed (operative word here, developed, not built) by the Caldari State) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.26 21:00:00 - [12] - Quote Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades (Upgrades with drawbacks) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.26 22:04:00 - [13] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades (Upgrades with drawbacks) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Excuse me but what pills are you throwing in? Dropsuit specialisations are better in allmost every aspect then their regular frames. -Basic light frames get no skill bonuses, no fitting bonus for cloaks. While the scout specialisation gets cloak fitting bonus and specific racial bonuses like dampening or scan bonuses etc. -basic medium frames are like assaults except they do not get any fitting bonuses for grendaes, light weapons and sidearms. The only suit that has a drawback would be the logi but that is a complete different role. -basic heavy frames have less HP and no resistance bonuses. Sentinel suits get race specific bonuses, resistance vs splash damage and fitting bonus for heavy weapons. Sure a basic heavy has more HP then a commando but on the other hand a commando can use 2 light weapons and can carry a nanohive. All specialisation are either upgrades from basic frames or they fullfill a complete other role then the basics. This means they are all upgrades in all aspects. Let me rephrase, That they are the kind of sidegrades that he's looking for, sidegrades to fulfill a specific role Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 135	Posted - 2014.12.27 09:05:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I imagine theyre goig to shout down any suggestion for bringing marauders and enforcers back unless they come back exactly as thet want them. Overpowered and untouchable by anything other than another HAV. Rattati if the "established" tank drivers are going to be ungrateful, scream and accuse you of incompetence I would take it as a formal request to abandon brinking these tank classes in favor of amarr and minmatar setups using existing art assets as placeholders. This is why we cannot have nice things. Either that or my recommendation would be to get "that little sh*t pokey" on skype with the CPM and have a talk. He has a phenomenal grasp of what is going on here to the point where all I can reasonably contribute to the work he's been doing is eyeballing his ideas for AV/V balance so things remain difficult for AV but keeping with 1 player =1 player regardless of fitting. He's really been the most constructive on the topic of HAV balance. And he's been enlisting player feedback on how things might work to submit a baseline to you for vehicles until the usual suspects invade his threads to scream, rant and shout him down. Please seriously consider enlisting him to assist you in your vehicle rebalance efforts. You're really good at eyeballing numbers, any chance you could take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in an earlier post? and I do agree that 1 player should kill 1 player...but what about the vehicles with 3 players inside? or a dropship transport that controls 6 ish? (Just asking, not trying to sound hostile or anything here, just legitimately curious about it) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 136	Posted - 2014.12.27 10:50:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: You're really good at eyeballing numbers, any chance you could take a look at the spreadsheet I linked in an earlier post? and I do agree that 1 player should kill 1 player...but what about the vehicles with 3 players inside? or a dropship transport that controls 6 ish? (Just asking, not trying to sound hostile or anything here, just legitimately curious about it) Please re-link the post and I'll look. And believe it or not a party tank with two competent turret monkeys is a nightmare to put down. It is easily exponentially harder to kill but still doable solo along the same vein that it is possible for a single man to kill 3 people in a row on foot with a rifle. My only real complaint about a party tank is that IMHO the secondary turrets are buggy and unreliable. When they work they REALLY WORK. Introduce a little lag and they take a dump. I would prefer that they really work more often but as with all things skill, planning and positioning should be the most powerful thing. As far as dropships go, everyone inside can bail out so unless the wreck lands on you there's no excuse for dying when a DS gets splashed. But currently transport dropships enjoy the same tankability as HAVs do. This is overcompensating for the fact that the maps are so constrained that there's really nowhere they can escape TO except the redline where they are useless. Link I still need to try to generate fitting stats for the new mods I'm suggesting. Ok, Good to know about what you're thinking there...(Although, I think the front turret could be better placed), but I agree that when they work, they work Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 136	Posted - 2014.12.27 12:20:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Will hit it when I'm not at work. Pretty sure my boss will get butthurt if I go and spend my workday analyzing HAV balance. Edit: I do have to disagree with your assessment that the gunnlogi is in a good place. Right now as it stands it can achieve EHP values untouchable by any other vehicle in the game, outstripping the madrugar by anywhere between 50-125% depending on the fit and the pilot. The madrugar is on the cusp. The TTK on the maddy now should be the TTK with active defenses like hardeners controlled by the pilot turned off. The gunnlogi is too easily bricked and not nearly dependent enough on its regen. As it stands the gunnlogi is entirely too superior to all other options whether V or AV. It needs to be brought back into line and the active tank of the maddy buffed rather than the buffer tank. Another thing that needs to be addressed is poptart heavy pilots. The vehicular homicide heavy is too powerful. The fact that this can be done negates the value of the plasma cannon, which is performing poorly overall vs. Vehicles. There's a raft of problems with HAV balance that have predated Rattati's reign yet he gets the brunt of the blame for the disasters caused by pervious design decisions. Honestly HAVs were balanced best overall from a V/AV perspective in chromosome beta and I want to say 1.2 for vehicle vs. Vehicle battles. Ideally my wish is for Rattati to find the old archives of how that stuff was set up and steal liberally. I really hope they still have those files...as I cannot remember what the active armor rep rate was...or the 180mm plates. I've been tweaking the spreadsheet, but I still think we need to be closer to the Gunnlogi, from a brick tanking perspective, for the MBTs (It does need to be toned down though). I also think that all skills should be providing at least some kind of bonus...some sort of fitting bonus would be nice on the base HAVs (to keep them the versatile middle of the ground) and yeah...poptart heavies need to be fixed overall...(I pilot logi currently, I use the equipment to service my tank and help my team, and a nanite injector when I'm working with my squad to pick them up if the tank we're hunting guns them down with a blaster). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.27 17:35:00 - [17] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Here are the numbers that I've come up with thus far: Assumptions: The Gunnlogi is currently in a good place for tanks in terms of brick tanking The Gunnlogi's Base Regeneration is far too high The Madrugar is currently not viable because of missing fitting, and missing items The Dropsuit Specializations are Sidegrades, designed to fulfill the specific rolls (At least the kind of sidegrades we're looking for here) Therefore I'm starting with the shield tanks to generate stats from, and going with a recharge time concept, and currently setting it at 60 seconds for HAVs. I generated the stats by looking at the Ratios of different stats in the given drop-suit (or listed ship) line (assuming base). I also added a shield regeneration bonus (flat, not percentage) to the shield extenders in order to maintain a 60 second recharge time for HAVs (and assumed a 30 second recharge time for LAVs). The Madrugar PGU and CPU are based on exchanging 25% CPU for 25% PGU. I am hoping that if they implement a shield recharge solution similar to what I've suggested, that it allows shield recharge % mods to apply after the flat modifications from shield extenders. Link What do ya'll think? Are you basing that on the current CPU and PG skills remaining the same, ie useless? I'm accounting for the Gunnlogi getting an overall fitting buff of 15% with a skill bonus applied (either from core or command), decreasing base levels by 10% on the gunnlogi, then having a 5% per level fitting bonus. The Maddy then takes the base fitting stats from the gunnlogi, multiplies the pgu by 1.25 then the cup by .75. (This was just a start) Edit: this also assumes +1 primary slot Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.27 18:25:00 - [18] - Quote I suppose I should have also told you it's raining right now where I am with all the extra info I put in my last response Spkr... but to answer your earlier question, I'm counting on a 25% total fitting bonus coming from somewhere Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.27 18:55:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Gunnlogi base tank for a "proper" fit starts at 5 IAFG shots. I tested this with an HAV pilot when I was looking to see if Heavy Damage mods changed TTK (they don't). I've had gunnlogis refuse to pop after dumping two magazines into them. Now this might be because I don't think the hardener animations are loading, so it's impossible to tell. I only ever see the Attempt to use a shield booster, which I put a stop to as fast as possible. But can confirm 5+ shot minimum to kill most gunnlogis. 3-4 to kill most hardener active sicas. If it's because of hardener animations not working, then it's like the swarm issue, the invisible stuff needs to be fixed. But when the baseline buffer tank of the Gunnlogi exceeds there's a problem. And as far as I am concerned counting on always hitting the weakspot is a sucker bet. But I would not be remotely shocked to find out that people are getting a false positive because the hardener animations are screwy. if that's the case, then it means there's no way to differentiate between a gunnlogi hardened and a gunnlogi vulnerable. If this is the case then I'll say get the animation to work and bam. fixed entirely, and then we can do the push-pull with AV/V as we go. But the madrugar needs love for sure. and no, I don't want the 3k swarms back either. Anything doing more damage than a Proto rail cannon or Wiyrkomi Breach needs to have a few sharp drawbacks. Personally I'd rather see swarms high alpha, have to hold lock from launch to impact, swarms make a direct path to the vehicle, not following the vehicle's path. But that's a discussion for another thread. Edit: and the frames for dropsuits are nothing more than an illusion of contant/SP paywall. The better example of sidegrade would be logi vs. assault or commando vs. Sentinel, or if we ever get one, scout vs. pilot. I think using the heavy frames (with minor adjustments) as a basis for is at least a little better than for the other suit sizes (as the heavy frames do have expanded fitting relative to the sentinels and commandos, which is a good way to go for a generalist thing imo...just may need to be amplified). 180mm plates and my proposed fitting numbers changes should do a lot to assist the Maddy (although I need help trying to generate fitting numbers for the bigger plates), and I like that shield hardeners provide more resistance; however, unless they get changed to have a shorter active duration (and the do need to fix the hardener display glitches) or be changed to mirror the Armor Hardeners. On the subject of the Hardener glitches, it works both ways...sometimes they show on when they're off (or rather they don't turn off) and sometimes they show as off when they're on...it's something that needs to be fixed in this whole initiative. To be fair to the Gunnlogi, there are only 2 anti-shield options to try to configure it against...(Fluxes and PLCs), I'll try to theory-craft numbers with something like a Forgegun that does Thermal or EM damage...and see how that would theoretically hurt the gunnlogi. (And yes, Flux strikes exist, but I don't think balancing around the OBs is a good precedent to start). Also, it doesn't help that the Gunnlogi is a Caldari Tank that CCP wants (Or rather wanted) to behave like I'd expect a Matari Tank... In short, Maddy needs love, I don't think Gunnlogi would be OP if we had a heavy Lazer or Heavy Plasma (Or even Mjolnir Swarms...or a Flux Driver) but I will try to crunch numbers to find out...and glitches are bad and should be fixed . Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.27 19:17:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I would kill for a spreadsheet with all of the chrome vehicle and AV stats right now I will give a Tech 3 cruiser, 5 subs for it, a Confessor, a Faction Frigate of their choice, and Tech 2 rigs for all of the above, to the person who can bring that forward XD (Or equivalent EVE ISK Value as determined by the average from the past couple of days, to be set as soon as I can get to a computer with the eve client on it). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.28 02:43:00 - [21] - Quote BatKing Deltor wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I would kill for a spreadsheet with all of the chrome vehicle and AV stats right now Is this what your are looking for? Vehicles Old weapon stats Including AV Source The question is, do you have a capsuleer? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.28 03:31:00 - [22] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: This spreadsheet, while not complete, is a start point. If rattati is willing we can extrapolate and build from here. There are a few things I would rather not revert. Like forge splash. We don't need that back. HAVs in chromosome were notably slower. I would beef up sicas and somas to almost-maddy/gunnlogi levels because proto AV instagibbing new HAV pilots isn't great design space (sicas could be instapopped in chrome, not a feature we need). But I dunno if it's pointless at this point. Bluntly I wouldn't be shocked if Rattati was ready to walk away. This tgread got a bit too thick. Can we agree to keep it civil here and crap all over each other in other threads please? Why not follow like the MLT Dropsuits and increase the Sica/Soma to have the same base stats as the Maddy/Gunnlogi, just with a reduced slot layout (either the current 2/2, or maybe a 3/1 if we change to a 4/2 slot layout on the Standards?) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.28 06:05:00 - [23] - Quote BatKing Deltor wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: BatKing Deltor wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I would kill for a spreadsheet with all of the chrome vehicle and AV stats right now Is this what your are looking for? Vehicles Old weapon stats Including AV Source The question is, do you have a capsuleer? No sir, I do not. I'll be transferring 750 million eve isk (Approx 125 mil DUST) through Gyn Wallace's ISK Exchange, I'll get the ISK and then transfer it to you from this Dust character (Unless there is a capsule pilot you want the isk delivered to) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.30 18:03:00 - [24] - Quote Come on people, let's throw some more numbers around, make more spreadsheets. If you've got ideas, share them regardless of how you think they'll be reacted to. I think the Marauder class HAV should have transport capacity and be extremely resilient to AV fire practically requiring a couple of dedicated footslogging AVers to take down...the tradeoff would be greatly reduced firepower and lower mobility (Put a Drake on treads). I think that the enforcer's should have the massive firepower necessary to quickly take down a Marauder, but be vulnerable to being peppered down by even small-arms fire, but have higher mobility to make up for it. The Marauder threatens the infantry or breaks through their lines, the Enforcer cleans up the Marauders, the MBTs can fit to perform either/or something in between. Oh, when are we gonna see a return of the BlOps tanks? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.30 22:59:00 - [25] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Gentlemen, a moment of your time. I believe I have found the answer to our conundrums... Tank (Fast - Light) - 1 Shoota' (1 occupant) - Some armour BIG Tank (Regular - Medium) - 2 Shoota's (2 occupants) - More armour SUPA MAMMOTH TANK (Slow - Heavy) - 1 SUPA Shoota (3 Occupants) - 2 Shoota's - MEGA ARRMUR - MEGA SHEULD Needz moar Dakka, but oderwize Rait Propah Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.30 23:50:00 - [26] - Quote Moar 40k references? MLT HAV - Predator STD HAV - Leman Russ Tank Marauder - Land Raider G Enforcer - Immolator C Enforcer - Ravager? Hammerhead? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2014.12.31 23:15:00 - [27] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: True Adamance wrote: Again want to point out if Rattati cares where he can take inspiration from in terms of tank design. The WW2 American Tank line up is brilliant. M4 Sherman Medium Tank (Standard Hull) is the perfect example of the Madrugar in many respects. It's got thick armour, a competitive main gun, and fair mobility capabilities in terms of weight to power ratios. The M41 Walker Bulldog (Enforcer) is a thinly armoured tank with a big gun that uses sabot ammunition. Was one of the fastest tanks the Americans developed during the time but only had a maximum armour thickness of something like 32mm at its strongest point. The M106 Heavy Tank (Marauder) was an armoured behemoth and carried on of the largest cannons of the era while having an effective armour thickness on its glacis plate of almost 300mm being impenetrable to most smaller calibre weapons at longer ranges. 1. WOT/WW2 does not work in DUST - These tanks were created this way because of the era at that time - Penetation values of the ammo for example to thicker armor on the front turret means that the tank was going to be used hull down and bounce rounds of it 2. DUST is shield and armor - But you cannot bounce rounds, you cannot angle your tank so your treads get hit but you take no damage, you cant go hull down and let the turret bounce a few - damage is damage in this game, what it does it what it delivers 3. Glass cannons - TD or light tanks, TD massive frontal armor sloped to bounce rounds, light tanks fast and hard to hit - DUST glass is glass, you cannot bounce rounds only absorb damage, less HP = dead 4. WOT to DUST - Only way is to use skills/skill bonuses - For the enforcer to be like the TD because its a tank it needs to have more damage for its main turret to act like a TD, maybe have longer range too, also for it to be like a TD the turret doesnt move or it does very slowly in comparision to a normal tank and that it has more resistance at the front, weaker at the sides and at the back weaker still but between the TD there are variations such as the Hellcat 60kph or the Jpanther with strong frontal armor sloped or the AT7 with 200mm frontal armor not sloped but thick enough to stop most things My only points of contention are numbers 1 and 3... 1. Why wouldn't WW2 examples work for the time/place of DUST 514 (at least as abstractions to give us a general idea of how the different HAV hulls should operate) 3. Why not give Enforcers massive resitances to the front? they can give a decreased resistance (or negative value) to a weak point on the back, why not strengthen the front? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 137	Posted - 2015.01.01 04:48:00 - [28] - Quote Spker and Breakin can we stop with the argumentative tangents? Spker, AVers and line infantry have just as much right to comment on their feelings of vehicle balance as vehicle users have to comment on dropsuit balance. Breakin does have a vehicle pilot alt (a maddy pilot), and if anything has been calling for AV and the Gunnlogi to both be nerfed to bring the maddy up to snuff (or, depending on how you read his wording, the maddy to be buffed and gunnlogi slightly nerfed)...the important part being that there is a reasonable TTK for a Dedicated AVer (Note the dedicated, not a guy who just grabs the starter AV fit or MLT FG) to take out an HAV (regardless of type) when the active mods are on cooldown. I guess my point is Spkr, tone it down, and don't take everything the Breakin suggests as automatically bad for vehicles (as not everything he suggests is), just consider his ideas and try to explain why you do or don't agree with him (give him the benefit of the doubt) According to the OP, Marauders and Enforcers are going to be side-grades...accept that they're not going to be as relatively powerful as they used to be, instead let's focus on developing suggestions for how they can best fill the rolls as described in the OP (or any role you feel they should fill, provided it stays with the stipulation of a side-grade). Breakin, it has felt in the past that Vehicle Operator's concerns took second seat to the concerns of AVers, so I understand Spker's fervent defense of roll, and violent opposition to the ideas he sees as threatening it. I agree that he needs to bring it down a notch but I agree that not having impact angles is an acceptable abstraction for the sake of simplifying game mechanics (although, I agree it would be kinda neat, base values don't change, but provides either more or less damage resistance dependent on the angle). At least you both agree on vehicles being brought back to something more similar to the old values, and that the modules that you fit should modify tank performance more than the hull. So can we talk about new base values that would be good for the hulls and modules that would support this style of customization (preferably without calling anyone's ideas crap out of hand, at least not without a full explanation as to why)? Also, for reference as we work on our suggestions: what's a good TTK MBT vs MBT assuming identical, defensive, brick fits facing each-other head-on (spherical mercs in a vacuum), I'm in favor of a longer TTK myself. oh, and what about adding a co-axial small turret? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 138	Posted - 2015.01.01 16:26:00 - [29] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: True Adamance wrote: Again want to point out if Rattati cares where he can take inspiration from in terms of tank design. The WW2 American Tank line up is brilliant. M4 Sherman Medium Tank (Standard Hull) is the perfect example of the Madrugar in many respects. It's got thick armour, a competitive main gun, and fair mobility capabilities in terms of weight to power ratios. The M41 Walker Bulldog (Enforcer) is a thinly armoured tank with a big gun that uses sabot ammunition. Was one of the fastest tanks the Americans developed during the time but only had a maximum armour thickness of something like 32mm at its strongest point. The M106 Heavy Tank (Marauder) was an armoured behemoth and carried on of the largest cannons of the era while having an effective armour thickness on its glacis plate of almost 300mm being impenetrable to most smaller calibre weapons at longer ranges. 1. WOT/WW2 does not work in DUST - These tanks were created this way because of the era at that time - Penetation values of the ammo for example to thicker armor on the front turret means that the tank was going to be used hull down and bounce rounds of it 2. DUST is shield and armor - But you cannot bounce rounds, you cannot angle your tank so your treads get hit but you take no damage, you cant go hull down and let the turret bounce a few - damage is damage in this game, what it does it what it delivers 3. Glass cannons - TD or light tanks, TD massive frontal armor sloped to bounce rounds, light tanks fast and hard to hit - DUST glass is glass, you cannot bounce rounds only absorb damage, less HP = dead 4. WOT to DUST - Only way is to use skills/skill bonuses - For the enforcer to be like the TD because its a tank it needs to have more damage for its main turret to act like a TD, maybe have longer range too, also for it to be like a TD the turret doesnt move or it does very slowly in comparision to a normal tank and that it has more resistance at the front, weaker at the sides and at the back weaker still but between the TD there are variations such as the Hellcat 60kph or the Jpanther with strong frontal armor sloped or the AT7 with 200mm frontal armor not sloped but thick enough to stop most things My only points of contention are numbers 1 and 3... 1. Why wouldn't WW2 examples work for the time/place of DUST 514 (at least as abstractions to give us a general idea of how the different HAV hulls should operate) 3. Why not give Enforcers massive resitances to the front? they can give a decreased resistance (or negative value) to a weak point on the back, why not strengthen the front? 1. Armor needs thickness and angling while all ammo needs penetration values and how does that work with shields and EVE in general? 3. Its the only way to do it in new eden so flanking is required but the problem is that damage is still caused where as TD in WW2 were able to bounce shots for no damage Gotcha Let's Abstract that and assume that the weapons in New Eden are always able to make some ammount of damage stick (through warping armor plates, or drawing energy from the shields)...and using the WW2 model, abstract a given tank's armor plating (or resistance to penetration) as a combination of HP and Resistances (or if shield recharge delay is kept...hoping not..a better recharge threshold)...work with the WW2 examples as a baseline, but then see how you would make the functional within the rules of the game. (Maybe add in armor angling to add/remove resistances or damage when firing at certain parts of a tank from certain angles). A Tiger in dust doesn't have to be immune from lighter weapons fire, just practically immune (My Mission running BS in eve isn't immune from fire from rat cruisers, but I sure as hell don't worry about them very much...unless there are a ton of them) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 140	Posted - 2015.01.01 19:30:00 - [30] - Quote And HAVS are currently practically immune from smll arms fire (concen trated fire will. still hurt it if the HAV has no armor reps....we've gotten 5 tank kills by finishing off the survivor of a slugging match with my squads rifles). Not saying we need that level of front facing resistance, but it illustrates the point (we don't need a full tank simulation, just a reasonable facsimile of one) Sorry for any mistakes, phone is freaking out Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 140	Posted - 2015.01.02 12:50:00 - [31] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Lazer Fo Cused wrote: True Adamance wrote: Again want to point out if Rattati cares where he can take inspiration from in terms of tank design. The WW2 American Tank line up is brilliant. M4 Sherman Medium Tank (Standard Hull) is the perfect example of the Madrugar in many respects. It's got thick armour, a competitive main gun, and fair mobility capabilities in terms of weight to power ratios. The M41 Walker Bulldog (Enforcer) is a thinly armoured tank with a big gun that uses sabot ammunition. Was one of the fastest tanks the Americans developed during the time but only had a maximum armour thickness of something like 32mm at its strongest point. The M106 Heavy Tank (Marauder) was an armoured behemoth and carried on of the largest cannons of the era while having an effective armour thickness on its glacis plate of almost 300mm being impenetrable to most smaller calibre weapons at longer ranges. 1. WOT/WW2 does not work in DUST - These tanks were created this way because of the era at that time - Penetation values of the ammo for example to thicker armor on the front turret means that the tank was going to be used hull down and bounce rounds of it 2. DUST is shield and armor - But you cannot bounce rounds, you cannot angle your tank so your treads get hit but you take no damage, you cant go hull down and let the turret bounce a few - damage is damage in this game, what it does it what it delivers 3. Glass cannons - TD or light tanks, TD massive frontal armor sloped to bounce rounds, light tanks fast and hard to hit - DUST glass is glass, you cannot bounce rounds only absorb damage, less HP = dead 4. WOT to DUST - Only way is to use skills/skill bonuses - For the enforcer to be like the TD because its a tank it needs to have more damage for its main turret to act like a TD, maybe have longer range too, also for it to be like a TD the turret doesnt move or it does very slowly in comparision to a normal tank and that it has more resistance at the front, weaker at the sides and at the back weaker still but between the TD there are variations such as the Hellcat 60kph or the Jpanther with strong frontal armor sloped or the AT7 with 200mm frontal armor not sloped but thick enough to stop most things My only points of contention are numbers 1 and 3... 1. Why wouldn't WW2 examples work for the time/place of DUST 514 (at least as abstractions to give us a general idea of how the different HAV hulls should operate) 3. Why not give Enforcers massive resitances to the front? they can give a decreased resistance (or negative value) to a weak point on the back, why not strengthen the front? That would actually make sense, well unless the Enforcer is fast, and therefore might try and orbit something, in which it won't have its face pointing towards the other HAV, but rather its sides and even back. Well give the Caldari Enforcer the Hardened Front Facing Armor/Shield, and give the Gallente hardened Side armor? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 141	Posted - 2015.01.04 07:59:00 - [32] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: I always die with my HAV. I run a scout suit inside with a rep tool. That depends Spkr I've fought against pretty much all the big names of my time as a tanker I can't speak for before them since I was not a tanker but I think I've faired reasonably well. Where was I saying it was you jumping out? As for your assertion that I don't have experience.....well Spkr there's only so much you can learn in a game And if you are suggesting you can beat a similarly fit tank to your own plus two gunners I'd call you a liar. It doesn't much matter either way, I haven't played Dust in a month or so and honestly I don't feel like its a very good indicator or where I am at now as a tanker in terms of my gaming habits. Where did I say it was you that didn't have experience? I'm not used to the rapid firing Railguns, XT Missile Launchers, and Blasters any more. I'm used to 10 second reload time, managing my armour angles, using FPE, and dealing with which kinds of rounds to use vs which kinds of tanks, where to shoot them, how to shoot them, when to shoot them. There's no better angle to take damage in this game. But hey I'll leave you pretending that rapid firing 5 rounds out of a railgun at infantry who couldn't fight back made you good. lolwut. That's a glitch, if you didn't know. It's been around for over a year. ^^^ are you sure you tank? If you did, you would've encountered that countless times, and knew what I was talking about right off the bat. He's just reffering to the standard firing rate of the Railgun relative to actual tank cannons, which he has at least some of a point about...the RoF of the Railguns seems to fast to me as well (though it shouldn't be as high as 10s, that should be reserved for Mattari Artillery)... and he's saying that adding in angled armor would be beneficial to the tanking experience overall Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 141	Posted - 2015.01.04 08:35:00 - [33] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: I always die with my HAV. I run a scout suit inside with a rep tool. That depends Spkr I've fought against pretty much all the big names of my time as a tanker I can't speak for before them since I was not a tanker but I think I've faired reasonably well. Where was I saying it was you jumping out? As for your assertion that I don't have experience.....well Spkr there's only so much you can learn in a game And if you are suggesting you can beat a similarly fit tank to your own plus two gunners I'd call you a liar. It doesn't much matter either way, I haven't played Dust in a month or so and honestly I don't feel like its a very good indicator or where I am at now as a tanker in terms of my gaming habits. Where did I say it was you that didn't have experience? I'm not used to the rapid firing Railguns, XT Missile Launchers, and Blasters any more. I'm used to 10 second reload time, managing my armour angles, using FPE, and dealing with which kinds of rounds to use vs which kinds of tanks, where to shoot them, how to shoot them, when to shoot them. There's no better angle to take damage in this game. But hey I'll leave you pretending that rapid firing 5 rounds out of a railgun at infantry who couldn't fight back made you good. lolwut. That's a glitch, if you didn't know. It's been around for over a year. ^^^ are you sure you tank? If you did, you would've encountered that countless times, and knew what I was talking about right off the bat. He's just reffering to the standard firing rate of the Railgun relative to actual tank cannons, which he has at least some of a point about...the RoF of the Railguns seems to fast to me as well (though it shouldn't be as high as 10s, that should be reserved for Mattari Artillery)... and he's saying that adding in angled armor would be beneficial to the tanking experience overall Nah you are reading too much into it. I simply don't thing Dust vehicle gameplay is challenging or enjoyable any more and am looking into games that I think will require more of me as a tanker and are also interesting to play. However that tank turret thing still stands. Automatic Main Battle Cannon with no projectile drop? I chuckle quietly to myself every time I think about Dust. Nothing wrong with it if they tuned the railgun's damage (bear in mind that space-side railguns are more DPS weapons than Alpha-strike weapons, in dust they're doing both...I really want to see what Mattari Arty does) IMO you could adjust the damage numbers from Small Guns (their Damage Multipliers and Ammo Damage) to be Tank damage, and use Space-Side Small Turret ROF for Dust HAV Guns Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 141	Posted - 2015.01.04 09:02:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: [quote=Spkr4theDead] He's just reffering to the standard firing rate of the Railgun relative to actual tank cannons, which he has at least some of a point about...the RoF of the Railguns seems to fast to me as well (though it shouldn't be as high as 10s, that should be reserved for Mattari Artillery)... and he's saying that adding in angled armor would be beneficial to the tanking experience overall Nah you are reading too much into it. I simply don't thing Dust vehicle gameplay is challenging or enjoyable any more and am looking into games that I think will require more of me as a tanker and are also interesting to play. However that tank turret thing still stands. Automatic Main Battle Cannon with no projectile drop? I chuckle quietly to myself every time I think about Dust. Nothing wrong with it if they tuned the railgun's damage (bear in mind that space-side railguns are more DPS weapons than Alpha-strike weapons, in dust they're doing both...I really want to see what Mattari Arty does) IMO you could adjust the damage numbers from Small Guns (their Damage Multipliers and Ammo Damage) to be Tank damage, and use Space-Side Small Turret ROF for Dust HAV Guns I also suggested that to force all 4 racial turrets and tanks into the game they could. - Reskin the Maddy to be Gold and adjust it to 800 Shields 4000 Armour, Adjust the Maddy to 1125 Shields and 3400 armour. -Reskin the Gunnlogi to Rust Red and give it the current Gunnlogi Stats, and adjust the current Gunnlogi to 3000 Shields and 1200 armour Establish that each turret mantlet is assigned to the vehicle and all the changes when fitting a new turret is the barrel. - Enlarge the Combat Rifle Barrel and give it the Current Large Blaster functions vs Armour - Enlarge the Laser Rifle and make that the Amarr Barrel - Rails and Missiles = Small tweaks - Large Blasters become the 25mm gun or the CZ75 of Dust 514. Now all turrets are in the game. Prissy *** ass tankers can keep their ".50 Cal Maching Gun" and pretend they are good. Blasters become proper DPS weapons and function like they should, Rails get less DPS, Missiles/ Rockets less alpha (love to see their damahe halved and ammo cap doubled) and all four ***** tanks are in the game. Not that I'd stick around to use the Amarr tank. Then wouldn't be just end up with the same problem with the "Autocannon" as we have with the Large Blaster (Unless you mean making it a burst fire weapon?) Also...what do you think of a 60 second shield recharge time for HAVs? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 141	Posted - 2015.01.04 09:16:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Then wouldn't be just end up with the same problem with the "Autocannon" as we have with the Large Blaster (Unless you mean making it a burst fire weapon?) Also...what do you think of a 60 second shield recharge time for HAVs? Yeah you would but at this point I don't care any more. And meh..... IMO needs to be longer 60 seconds is **** all time to repair a Heavy Tank like the Marauder or even a light tank like the standard variants. I've got a spreadsheet with some numbers I've been working on (updated since I last posted the link) I'm adding in the other Racial HAV Base Hulls now. If you don't mind taking a look? (I can send it to you over skype if you'd like, I currently have the HAV Recharge time set to 60 seconds, but it can be easily changed) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 141	Posted - 2015.01.04 21:01:00 - [36] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: I always die with my HAV. I run a scout suit inside with a rep tool. That depends Spkr I've fought against pretty much all the big names of my time as a tanker I can't speak for before them since I was not a tanker but I think I've faired reasonably well. Where was I saying it was you jumping out? As for your assertion that I don't have experience.....well Spkr there's only so much you can learn in a game And if you are suggesting you can beat a similarly fit tank to your own plus two gunners I'd call you a liar. It doesn't much matter either way, I haven't played Dust in a month or so and honestly I don't feel like its a very good indicator or where I am at now as a tanker in terms of my gaming habits. Where did I say it was you that didn't have experience? I'm not used to the rapid firing Railguns, XT Missile Launchers, and Blasters any more. I'm used to 10 second reload time, managing my armour angles, using FPE, and dealing with which kinds of rounds to use vs which kinds of tanks, where to shoot them, how to shoot them, when to shoot them. There's no better angle to take damage in this game. But hey I'll leave you pretending that rapid firing 5 rounds out of a railgun at infantry who couldn't fight back made you good. lolwut. That's a glitch, if you didn't know. It's been around for over a year. ^^^ are you sure you tank? If you did, you would've encountered that countless times, and knew what I was talking about right off the bat. He's just reffering to the standard firing rate of the Railgun relative to actual tank cannons, which he has at least some of a point about...the RoF of the Railguns seems to fast to me as well (though it shouldn't be as high as 10s, that should be reserved for Mattari Artillery)... and he's saying that adding in angled armor would be beneficial to the tanking experience overall It's not too fast. It used to be faster, and when we had more modules, we had passive mods that reduced the spool time even more. You just don't know what you're talking about. I'm not debating that it used to be faster, I'm saying that the RoF doesn't feel right for a main cannon (it feels too fast, even for a Caldari Railgun) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.05 16:08:00 - [37] - Quote Relevant to my theorycrafting: Anyone know if a weapon with splash damage applies both the splash and the direct against a target when it hits? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.05 16:58:00 - [38] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Relevant to my theorycrafting: Anyone know if a weapon with splash damage applies both the splash and the direct against a target when it hits? Direct hit and splash don't stack one or the other. Thanks, I've made some more changes to my proposed numbers, you mind taking a look? (Do you need the link again?) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.08 19:52:00 - [39] - Quote Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.08 21:51:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). Someone run these numbers please. using fittings in the current vein for now. You're looking at 8600.16 Front 8260.68 Side 7751.46 Rear Shield EHP for 22.5 seconds with a 45 second cooldown on a Tri-Extender One Hardener fit Gunnlogi, and depletion of that buffer will keep that Gunnlogi out of combat for just over 3 minutes (Assuming the Pilot is fitting a STD Gun and no small guns, and one of each fitting mod in the lows and has fitting skills to 5)...(assuming my math is right...I'm really tired right now, so it could be wrong) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.08 22:42:00 - [41] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). Someone run these numbers please. using fittings in the current vein for now. You're looking at 8600.16 Front 8260.68 Side 7751.46 Rear Shield EHP for 22.5 seconds with a 45 second cooldown on a Tri-Extender One Hardener fit Gunnlogi, and depletion of that buffer will keep that Gunnlogi out of combat for just over 3 minutes (Assuming the Pilot is fitting a STD Gun and no small guns, and one of each fitting mod in the lows and has fitting skills to 5)...(assuming my math is right...I'm really tired right now, so it could be wrong) 8600 actual, or EHP? Shield EHP Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.08 22:51:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: so the numbers are assuming hardeners running, not the base passive tank? If so **** yeah. Having to pull a reload while the hardeners are up is hardly what I'd call unfair. HOWEVER. three minutes to regen shields is too much downtime. I don't think it should be twenty seconds (like now) but three minutes would be overkill. and I'm iffy on 45 seconds active hardener, but what the hell? I'm not remembering how long the current ones last. I'd be willing to give some of this a shot just to see how well it worked. They're assuming hardeners running I'll re-tweak the numbers...the idea of the 180 second regen time to to encourage the use of boosters and rechargers (added rechargers in the modules page). The Hardener is 22.5 Seconds Active, then goes on cooldown for 45 seconds (Same cooldown, reduced active duration assuming level 5). If I try to redo the regen time, I'll have to redo the rechargers as well Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.08 22:58:00 - [43] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: so the numbers are assuming hardeners running, not the base passive tank? If so **** yeah. Having to pull a reload while the hardeners are up is hardly what I'd call unfair. HOWEVER. three minutes to regen shields is too much downtime. I don't think it should be twenty seconds (like now) but three minutes would be overkill. and I'm iffy on 45 seconds active hardener, but what the hell? I'm not remembering how long the current ones last. I'd be willing to give some of this a shot just to see how well it worked. They're assuming hardeners running I'll re-tweak the numbers...the idea of the 180 second regen time to to encourage the use of boosters and rechargers (added rechargers in the modules page). The Hardener is 22.5 Seconds Active, then goes on cooldown for 45 seconds (Same cooldown, reduced active duration assuming level 5). If I try to redo the regen time, I'll have to redo the rechargers as well remember rechargers stop if you shoot them currently. And passive shield tank should be viable if you can get away from incoming fire long enough for the shields to kick in the recharge. This proposal assumes the removal of shield recharge delay (not depleted recharge delay)...also what do you think of the racial turret designs (there are multiple pages on the doc) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 12:23:00 - [44] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: A couple questions on the numbers. This isnt meant to be offesnsive, but its sure isnt going to be nice. 1) Why would i run a tank with a negative 25% damage bonus to a very expensive turret? Basically your Sagaris and Suraya are fat slow piniatas. 2) Why the STD tank redesign, and i do not have kind words for the stats on the maddy and gunlogi. I would not like a 4-0 gunlogi with a passive shield regen of 18.1. My militia dropsuits rep shields faster than that. hell all of the shield regen numbers are bad, the infantry would riot if they had those numbers. There is no use for a 3-3 madrugar, espeially with you slash proposed base hp stats from 5200 to 3400. 3) Caldari enforcer a 50% increase to range is in no way acceptable. 450 meters is from one red line to the other. 4)Amarr 15% natural armor resists, nope. Not with 4 low slots. 5) those turret stats, trying not to offend, but ........i dont know where to begin. if you want pro rail turrets to do 3242 damage per shot...sigh just tell me where did you get these numbers from? some ideas are okay, but the majority, no. I think you are trying to take on too much at once, and those stats seem impossible to get rght without testing, and since nothing in vehicle related in dust is tested until after release, no i dont want to sit through months of these numbers at all. I think you shoud not tweak the base hulls that we already have and move the maruaders up and the enforces down the ladder respectively. 1) Based on the descriptions that Rattati gave, I came up with the idea of making the Marauders Giant Battle-Buses. The Actual Size of the negative bonus is irrelevant (25% is a bit ridiculous) but it was to illustrate their roll as a large, frontline infantry killer. 2) The Gunnlogi's Regen and Buffer currently are way too high relative to the Maddy, so I started by Slashing the regen down (and basing it off of a recharge time 3.5 time lower than the frigates) and making ever effort to ensure that adding buffer maintained the recharge. I then lowered the base fitting stats slightly (5%) to account for a 5% per level fitting skill being added in. a) The Maddy got a base armor nerf, but a fitting buff and on the modules page the introduction of the Large Plates should help significantly. As for the Specifics of slot layouts it's more to demonstrate that Gallente and Minmatar need to be mirroring eachother (Try it with the Maddy being a 2/4 instead) c) The base HP numbers came from the cruisers in EVE, taking their shield and armor numbers and modifying them slightly to fit better into dust, (such as decreasing the shield levels slightly to account for the proposed base resistance by facing, increase the values of all the base HP and fitting mods that provide hp by 10% if you don't think the resistance by facing will be coming) d) Also, the shield regen numbers come back at a constant rate under this proposal, no shield recharge delay (Only Depleted Delay), so the hit isn't quite as bad as it seems. Additionaly, vehicle recharges are massively powerful under this proposal (if you look next to them you can see the power of only fitting one to a gunnlogi) 3) Again here, the actual size of the bonus doesn't really matter (as long as the devs know that a proposal like this will need to be hammered out) and could probably be brought down to a 25% total, but it is to illustrate the Caldari Philosophy of Range. 4) See above answer, could be brought down to something like 2% per level 5) The turret stats for Rails Specifically came from reducing the refire rate to make them feel more like main cannone, while preserving DPS, the variants then gain certain abilities (the specific one you referenced gains 5% Damage, while loosing range). The other turrets are based on the relative DPS of the infantry weapons that we already have. Thanks for actually responding and reading it, Laser I'm addressing yours next Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 12:40:00 - [45] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). 1. That propsal is depressing 2. Minmatar/Amarr vehicles do not exist and frankly we need to balance what we have now and not what will be introduced 3. Shield recharge on a shield vehicle is less than 20hp/s? Militia dropsuits have better - Its a vehicle with an engine and a shield generator and the old Surya had a better passive shield regen and thats an armor tank 4. Shield/Armor hardeners need to be the same % 5. Resistance numbers for front/side/back will need introducing 5a. I dont think i have a tank in WOT where the sides have better armor than the front, the front is always the strongest part of a tank and the -5/10% at the back isnt needed 6. Shield extenders in EVE always improve regen rate and also do not add to a deley in regen either, its adds to the sig profile 6a. Shield extenders look nerfed 6b. Armor plates are nerfed 6c. Ancillery - Would mean introduction of capacitors which i doubt 6d. Shield hardeners - 18seconds isnt long enough to do anything worthwhile and basic is same as complex should be tiered 7. Turrets - You just increased damage while nerfing the HP of the hulls/modules and activation times with resistance numbers on all sides of the vehicles so in the end add it together and we have TTK which is even quicker than compared to now - Why? You just have made all the work before it pointless since pilots do not want short timers and 3 shot each other 8. Bring back Chrome for AV vs vehicles and Uprising 1.0 for HAV vs HAV 6e. Armor hardeners - You just made them king again compared to shield and basic is same as complex should be tiered 1) Really? 2) These Racial vehicle values are based on the relative values of the current dropsuits, and don't necessarily need to be fully introduced to achieve balance, but we do need more racial weapons (and damage types to achieve proper balance). 3) Shield regeneration based on a recharge time 3.5 times smaller than the frigates in eve, and every effort made to maintain the charge time when increasing buffer. In addition, rechargers under this proposal are very powerful, and consider fitting a booster every once in a while (It's designed to prevent shield tanks from being massively powerful compared to their armor counterparts). 4) They don't necessarily need to be, provided that shield Hardeners have a low enough active duration and long enough cooldown, but I agree it would be easier to balance if they where identical (feel free to try stuff out, using the armor hardener stats for it...shield's being pulse-like isn't something I'm attached to). 5) Page 3 of the proposal talks about resistance by facing, Are you agreeing with me that it should be introduced? (Hard to tell). 5a) Side Armor stronger on the Brawler Marauders could be changed, but it is to demonstrate their "Orbiting Style" of combat that Rattati suggested, what would good values be for this? 5a-b) Noted, but it isn't that big of a deal to remove them. 6) Yes, in eve shields increase signature radius not some DRD level, but Signature radius helps all weapons hit you better (not to mention decreases enemy lock-time) which is a hard feature to implement in DUST, so DRD helps with the damage application side of things. 6a-b) yes both are nerfed by approx 10% to account for the average resistance gained under the Base Resistance by fitting section, might not be entirely necessary, but I thought it was a good idea to account for gaining 10% more EHP base on the sides, and 20% more base on the front. 6c) No it wouldn't, these are just active armor repairers...(these assume we're keeping our current passive ones as well) 6d) I was keeping with the current feel of shields being pulse-like, and the difference in stats is in the Cooldown, can look at active duration if you'd like 6e) (I saw you down at the bottom) They have the same tiering as shield hardeners, reduced cooldown. This sticks with CCP's current design philosophy...but if you think they need changed, what are good values for them? (I'll plug them in and see how they change things) 7) Rail Turrets have the same DPS as before (Just fire slower), Blasters could be toned down, but all the other weapons are based on the relative DPS of infantry portable weapons (using the Railgun as the Rail Rifle). TTK with railgun might be modified very slightly 8) If CCP happens to have the exact numbers cached somewhere agreed, this is only in case they didn't save the old numbers (or if they felt that reverting to them would be too much of an overhaul) and to demonstrate where racial variants might be. Thanks for the neatly ordered feadback Lazer Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 12:53:00 - [46] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Before you start yanking numbers from EVE: EVE is not an FPS game. Your ability to aim in the game is calculated purely by server fiat. The firing mechanics in EVE are tethered to the fitting potential and hull speed and maneuverability. In DUST it is player piloting agility and error vs. Enemy ability to consistently hit targets. I agree with laser for once here. Because facing armor values aren't in the game we are unlikely to get it unless DUST becomes a cult hit and the cash overflow overruneth the cup, allowing CCP to do legion and a PS4 port. Further armor on the glacis plate should be strongest as statistically the front of a tank is the most likely to be facing anti armor fire. I like what you are trying to do, but we need to use existing mechanics. Troll back a few pages and look up the chrome V/AV spreadsheet someone linked to and poke at those numbers. Ask the HAV pilots what the turrets were doing in 1.1 and take that into account. Once we have enough of that, if we can get enough people to sign off "this is what we want" we have something we can ask rattati for. Trying to re-invent the wheel won't get us anywhere. The more we work within established mechanical boundaries the more likely we are to get what we want. Only a few of the stats where ripped from eve (Shield/Armor values that I modified, and the concept of shield recharge time, reduced to fit into a faster paced environment), the rest of the stuff from eve was for racial flavor (bonus styles etc) and justification for DRD on Shield Extenders If armor facing values aren't going to be added, increase base HP and HP values from modules by 10% (The numbers I told you earlier, take the side facing number and apply it all the way around). (Do you think I should go ahead and re-increase the numbers and just put in the armor facing section to decrease HP numbers by 10% to accomplish it?) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:45:00 - [47] - Quote Lazer I think you misunderstood what I was talking about in number 3 and 6...but that's a bit irrelevant to the discussion as a whole. You don't have to explain Eve's mechanics to me, I know them well. Anyway, so if vehicle v vehicle TTK is too low, why not try adjusting the turret DPS instead of increasing base hp too much (I'm adjusting my hp numbers back up and just going to make a note on the resistance page). What do you think would be a good DPS for the Rail Turret? (If I change its DPS the other guns should update accordingly) (Guns in my proposal as it is now can only theoretically OHKO a base hull with no HP Mods) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:02:00 - [48] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Lazer I think you misunderstood what I was talking about in number 3 and 6...but that's a bit irrelevant to the discussion as a whole. You don't have to explain Eve's mechanics to me, I know them well. Anyway, so if vehicle v vehicle TTK is too low, why not try adjusting the turret DPS instead of increasing base hp too much (I'm adjusting my hp numbers back up and just going to make a note on the resistance page). What do you think would be a good DPS for the Rail Turret? (If I change its DPS the other guns should update accordingly) (Guns in my proposal as it is now can only theoretically OHKO a base hull with no HP Mods) Weakspot changes that instantly. A wiyrkomi breach forge can kill a maddy in one shot with three mods if the gunner is slick enough to get in aft. Against shields in the weakspot my forge guns hit for 165% and about 245% to raw armor My hud may or may not be inaccurate but the results speak for themselves. You absolutely CAN oneshot an HAV by putting a round up the tailpipe. So instead of increasing the base stats on the hulls, why not increase the HP given by armor plates themselves? (or re-examine the damage bonus from the tailpipe weakspot) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:45:00 - [49] - Quote So...we're in agreement that we need a less hull-centric model for vehicles, with more of a focus on what modules are fitted, and with skills effecting final stats? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:48:00 - [50] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Lazer I think you misunderstood what I was talking about in number 3 and 6...but that's a bit irrelevant to the discussion as a whole. You don't have to explain Eve's mechanics to me, I know them well. Anyway, so if vehicle v vehicle TTK is too low, why not try adjusting the turret DPS instead of increasing base hp too much (I'm adjusting my hp numbers back up and just going to make a note on the resistance page). What do you think would be a good DPS for the Rail Turret? (If I change its DPS the other guns should update accordingly) (Guns in my proposal as it is now can only theoretically OHKO a base hull with no HP Mods) 1. New Eden - If its in EVE it should follow to DUST - Its the same universe 2. Chrome was the 2 shot era for vehicles - Uprising 1.0 stopped that with reduction in damage mods and turrets damage - Also more modules slots and variety of modules and turrets with useful skills and skillbooks altered TTK before anyone brought out a vehicle - Vehicles were more defensive in Uprising era because to me at least it did take longer to take down vehicles due to everything above I still don't think you understood what I meant there (For instance, having Shield Extenders increase signature profile in DUST won't help every weapon's damage application against that target although it should help with target acquisition, hence we have DRD)...nor did you answer my question...what do you think a good DPS Number (or how much lower from current) do you think Large Railguns need to be? I've updated my numbers slightly based on what you and Breakin have said...but I'll need to work on other skill bonuses later on today. (I've decreased Rail DPS by 20%, so look at the turrets and see what you think) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:54:00 - [51] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). Nerfing the Gunnlogi? Giving the Sagaris worse fitting than the Gunnlogi? People like you get vehicles nerfed into worthlessness. Is there any specialized suit that has less PG and CPU than its basic counterpart? Sentinel Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:08:00 - [52] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: 1) Based on the descriptions that Rattati gave, I came up with the idea of making the Marauders Giant Battle-Buses. The Actual Size of the negative bonus is irrelevant (25% is a bit ridiculous) but it was to illustrate their roll as a large, frontline infantry killer. I'm thinking the Madrugar and Gunnlogi will be the main battle tanks. 2) The Gunnlogi's Regen and Buffer currently are way too high relative to the Maddy, so I started by Slashing the regen down (and basing it off of a recharge time 3.5 time lower than the frigates) and making ever effort to ensure that adding buffer maintained the recharge. I then lowered the base fitting stats slightly (5%) to account for a 5% per level fitting skill being added in. So instead of buffing the Madrugar to be on par with the Gunnlogi, you nerf the Gunnlogi to be on par with the Madrugar. Another bad idea. a) The Maddy got a base armor nerf, but a fitting buff and on the modules page the introduction of the Large Plates should help significantly. As for the Specifics of slot layouts it's more to demonstrate that Gallente and Minmatar need to be mirroring eachother (Try it with the Maddy being a 2/4 instead) My Madrugar already nearly gets destroyed by a single Minmando. It doesn't need any less HP. c) The base HP numbers came from the cruisers in EVE, taking their shield and armor numbers and modifying them slightly to fit better into dust, (such as decreasing the shield levels slightly to account for the proposed base resistance by facing, increase the values of all the base HP and fitting mods that provide hp by 10% if you don't think the resistance by facing will be coming) Might as well have pulled the numbers out of a hat. d) Also, the shield regen numbers come back at a constant rate under this proposal, no shield recharge delay (Only Depleted Delay), so the hit isn't quite as bad as it seems. Additionaly, vehicle recharges are massively powerful under this proposal (if you look next to them you can see the power of only fitting one to a gunnlogi) That's how it was in Chrome. I'm working on numbers with that in effect. 3) Again here, the actual size of the bonus doesn't really matter (as long as the devs know that a proposal like this will need to be hammered out) and could probably be brought down to a 25% total, but it is to illustrate the Caldari Philosophy of Range. Yes it does, because a PRO breach forge hitting the 167% in the back has a real good chance of destroying a base HP tank in one shot. That's an insane bonus for a weapon that already does insane damage. 5) The turret stats for Rails Specifically came from reducing the refire rate to make them feel more like main cannone, No, because it's the future. I can't wait to see your numbers Spker (I really can't wait, you've got some strong opinions, so my expectations are very high), and I'm still working on mine. I've updated them slightly here in only the past 30 seconds. I also wanted things to be more focused on modules than hulls, so I rolled most of the nerfed stats into the modules themselves (take a look at that page, and notice the differences). Base Regen on the Gunnlogi needed a nerf, there is no arguing with that point (Especially if we do away with shield recharge delay). I also fail to see what a range bonus has to do with increasing damage...and as for a BFG one hitting a base HP tank...working as intended...fit some damn mods or gtfo. I personally don't like the RoF on the rails currently, but we can agree to disagree on this point Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 142	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:15:00 - [53] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Updated my numbers with what I think would be pretty good (drawing heavily from EVE and the Dropsuits)...I don't think these will require too much of an AV Re-balance (other than filling the missing AV Roles). Nerfing the Gunnlogi? Giving the Sagaris worse fitting than the Gunnlogi? People like you get vehicles nerfed into worthlessness. Is there any specialized suit that has less PG and CPU than its basic counterpart? Sentinel LOLWUT The sentinel has a -PG/CPU usage per level. Along with that, you really mean to tell me a PRO basic heavy frame has better PG and CPU than a PRO sentinel? PRO Caldari Heavy frame has more PGU than the Caldari Sentinel, but less CPU (which you will find is mirrored in my proposed numbers) as for the fitting reduction, you'll find that in the base Marauder Bonuses. Also...confirmation of what? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 143	Posted - 2015.01.10 02:17:00 - [54] - Quote Pokey, do you have a skype? I'd very much like some help hammering down my numbers (and ask you a bit about yours) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 143	Posted - 2015.01.10 10:29:00 - [55] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 12:11:00 - [56] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Random scribbles, just doing this **** in passes. Assume 3 Main slots (Will be increased later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Passive Armor Reps (Will be changed later, values adjusted accordingly) Assume Shield and Armor Hardeners are both 30% reduction Assume 180mm Plate is 50% more HP than 120mm Plate General Goals for this pass: -Maintain Gunnlogi eHP -Require Gunnlogi to fit Shield Recharger to reach same levels of shield regen -Maintain Madrugar Armor Repair rate -Match Base HP of Gunnlogi and Madrugar -Significantly increase Madrugar eHP so that it has ~20% more eHP than Gunnlogi, and Gunnlogi has ~20% regen rate. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J2n_K-I5tvkghAG6Hvjygy51YZuOCP50PAdKT_LoS-k/edit?usp=sharing Result is that Gunnlogi for the most part performs as it currently is, Madrugar has similar regen to before, but a lot more HP. Feel free to spaz out as per usual. Went over it, Gameplay wise impression: Sure f you assume hardeners will be on permanently, it may seem like Maddys and gunlogis have insane amounts of health, but by the time they are switched on damage is already taken. I'll see if i could help you put up the stats, but we ought to look at AV (infantry and vehicle) stats vs proposed vehicle stats to have a good impression of how OP or UP they may in the field. I'm thinking AV type / damage per shot vs Hadener off, hardner on, regen off , regen on for shield and armor. If we can get that spreadsheet on that figured out, then it may provide a good balancing counter point. Hey Thaddues you're good with numbers, you interested? I've gotten the AV numbers as they are now on my spreadsheet so I can work with them a bit easier. Just tell me what all information you'd like me to calculate (other than what is already on there)...and could someone please tell me what they think a good TTK for MBT v MBT and AV v MBT in seconds... I've also started adding a version of a vehicle skill tree influenced by the dropsuit skill tree and currently have the Gunnlogi at just above where it is performing now (in terms of Regen and EHP)...and will be adjusting slightly to try to bring it in line (when all skills to 5) with what we have now. I dont think seconds is the apppropiate standard AV fights though they seem instantaneous has realtivley long engagement time. I think we should focus on number of shots to kill a tank, and we have to stay with current AV values. To make things a bit more complicated you're going to have to theory craft alot of fits, but once you have the formula down (i dont even math bros) then its just about punching in numbers and excell does the rest. i.e Swarms vs Armor - 1 volley does X amount of damage vs Madrugar with 3 slots - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate + 1 hardener + 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 2 plates 1 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 3 plates 0 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 2 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 3 hardener 0 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 1 plate 0 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 2 hardener 1 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 1 hardener 2 repper it takes N shots to kill it - Armor tank has ehp value Y = 0 plate 0 hardener 3 repper it takes n shots to kill it something like that Just added AV Grenades...I forgot them (Should I add Flux Grenades as well?) Want me to use the current 2/3? My currently proposed 3/3? and should I account for possible utility modules and such? (mCRUs, Scanners, Nitro etc?) (I've got a bunch of modules I still have to add to the vehicle modules page first, so I'll have to finish that first) Once I have that done I'll start theory-crafting the possible fits for the Maddy (hopefully by lunchtime), then I'll try the same for the Gunnlogi...then the other two proposed racial HAVs (should be easier once I have the two others done) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 13:10:00 - [57] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: pegasis prime wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Bear in mind gunnlogis can be rigged to eat 5-6 proto forge shots while completely passive tanked. No matter HOW you tank a maddy you cap out at 4 unless the forge gunner has no proficiency or he is a complete idiot. I honestly think we should move the sica and soma designator to standard, make the maddy and gunnlogi main battle tanks and sidegrade the marauder and enforcer with those two as the middle ground even with a move back towards chrome. HAVs are punishing enough that we only need one unbonused "frame." The biggest problem with moving sica and so mad to std effectively removing Malitia tanks and making it harder for newer player who might be inclined towards tanking . Not if you drop the basic HAV skill tied solely to vehicle operation. 1 point in vehicle operation opens up basic vehicles across the board then branches into MBT, enforcer and marauder. Or the HAV skill gains a bonus that only effects the MBTs (and still unlocks the side-grade specializations) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:32:00 - [58] - Quote Bonus to fitting is a good generalist bonus that is both offensive and defensive (PG/CPU per level) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:47:00 - [59] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Bonus to fitting is a good generalist bonus that is both offensive and defensive (PG/CPU per level) If 5% PG, CPU, shield and armor is good for infantry, then it's good for vehicles too. it originally was one skill for both dropsuits and vehicles. It's amazing the things newer players don't know. Oh, I was suggesting an additional bonus for the MBTS (something like 3% in addition to the 5% s from vehicle upgrades) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:50:00 - [60] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'd also like to reiterate that HAV's will still need a role to have. Even if they are balanced, they will still only have a single job already done by infantry, and that is shoot at people and other vehicles, mostly HAV's. We need more structures that could be destroyed (or defended) by HAV's, and ones that really matter at that (SD's can partly be replaced by nanohives, CRU's by mCRU's or DU's, turrets by HAV's). This sounds like maybe something if we ask nicely Rattati might include in his PC revamp. I had an idea (based on something that Adamance had said) where we give NULL Cannons HP Values like Supply Depots, when it's depleted they go into lock-down for a short time (During which they cannot fire). If the possessing team Reps them back up to a certain % of Armor, the NULL Cannon comes back online, if they don't it defaults to neutral with full armor(Something along those lines to make them relevant in objective modes)... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:45:00 - [61] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: leave the splash alone, I don't think Rattati's going to give you back the infantry bashing potency without some serious begging. Let's not poke the hornet's nest immediately, there are better times for that, and all of the splash values in chrome are much higher than what we have now. all of them. on every weapon. I doubt getting those back is negotiable My spreadsheet Maddy's PG/CPU seems a little low (also, probably typo, but you have it labeled as having a 4th low slot right now btw). The base shield regeneration values seem a bit high to me (Have you considered a 5% per level skill bonus to bring them up to those values/a bit higher than your current prescribed values). The Marauders and Enforcers also seem like straight upgrades instead of side-grades. Also, the base HP on the Gallente Vehicles I'd like to see lowered (while rolling the missing values into the plates)...to make vehicles more focused on modules and skills myself. But overall, I wouldn't be necessarily opposed to these numbers either Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 22:59:00 - [62] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Maddy's PG/CPU seems a little low (also, probably typo, but you have it labeled as having a 4th low slot right now btw). I deliberately lowered the base stats of everything so that at level 5, they have higher stats than the vehicles do now. The base shield regeneration values seem a bit high to me (Have you considered a 5% per level skill bonus to bring them up to those values/a bit higher than your current prescribed values). In my On Vehicles thread, I propose the extenders adding 2% or 3% to shield recharge rate, rather than having a skill dedicated to it. Anyway, practically all the recharge rates work out to 26-27 seconds for every vehicle. [/i] The Marauders and Enforcers also seem like straight upgrades instead of side-grades. The assault, logistics, sentinel, commando and scout suits are all direct upgrades of their basic frame counterparts. Also, the base HP on the Gallente Vehicles I'd like to see lowered (while rolling the missing values into the plates)...to make vehicles more focused on modules and skills myself. Dunno what slot layouts Rattati is looking at, but like I just said above, I lowered everything so that at level 5, every vehicle has higher stats than they do now. If Rattati wants to keep the same slot layouts, then the Marauders in my spreadsheet will need to have vastly increased HP numbers. I meant at level 5 the Maddy still seems to be a bit too low Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.10 23:04:00 - [63] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Maddy's PG/CPU seems a little low (also, probably typo, but you have it labeled as having a 4th low slot right now btw). I deliberately lowered the base stats of everything so that at level 5, they have higher stats than the vehicles do now. The base shield regeneration values seem a bit high to me (Have you considered a 5% per level skill bonus to bring them up to those values/a bit higher than your current prescribed values). In my On Vehicles thread, I propose the extenders adding 2% or 3% to shield recharge rate, rather than having a skill dedicated to it. Anyway, practically all the recharge rates work out to 26-27 seconds for every vehicle. [/i] The Marauders and Enforcers also seem like straight upgrades instead of side-grades. The assault, logistics, sentinel, commando and scout suits are all direct upgrades of their basic frame counterparts. Also, the base HP on the Gallente Vehicles I'd like to see lowered (while rolling the missing values into the plates)...to make vehicles more focused on modules and skills myself. Dunno what slot layouts Rattati is looking at, but like I just said above, I lowered everything so that at level 5, every vehicle has higher stats than they do now. If Rattati wants to keep the same slot layouts, then the Marauders in my spreadsheet will need to have vastly increased HP numbers. I meant at level 5 the Maddy still seems to be a bit too low Maddy is current 4000; it's 200 more armor. Any more and people will claim the end of the game. The PG/CPU values...sorry should have clarified again (Currently the Maddy has significantly less fitting ability than the Gunnlogi) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 144	Posted - 2015.01.11 18:20:00 - [64] - Quote I would really like it if we could get back to 7 slots to work with instead of our current 5... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 145	Posted - 2015.01.12 07:17:00 - [65] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: True Adamance wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: True Adamance wrote: I don't want to nerf them at all but unfortunately what we have in Dust I have come to understand are not tanks. Large Missiles if you can call them that since they are actually more akin to Rocket Launchers not only have too much DPS (3361 vs Shields and 4550 vs Armour) but also do not function like a Main Tanks gun. They are inappropriate for the role as the main gun of a tank and unbalance tank combat greatly. Missiles are tank mounted swarms that actually require aim and timing, don't have a 400m range, and don't ignore obstacles and terrain. I'm proud to be able to use missiles. Hell, I can use all the turrets with deadly proficiency. So can I but it's not right that Missiles have a potential TTK of less than 3 seconds VS one specific type of vehicle (when only two are present in the game). It would also not be right if CCP released the Laser Turret and it was capable of dealing 4500 damage per second to shields. I mean unmodified PRO Missiles deals 3.5 times more DPS than PRO Railguns and almost 4x as much DPS as Blasters. Looking at the spectrum of Large Turrets in the game the DPS values a the opposites in terms of DPS to what they should be. Missiles unfortunately are the be all end all of most tank battles. I'd rather they simply be one option of many. How are missiles vs tank armor any different than scrambler and laser rifles vs dropsuit shields? If we get laser turrets you they won't magically eat vaporize shields? Missiles provide front loaded dps, but terrible sustained dps. If a missile tank misses even a couple shots he won't kill anything and he'll suffer getting shot down during reload. Missiles are also terrible against multiple targets where you can't kill one right off immediately. Railgun provide better range, accuracy, sustained dps, and the ability to engage multiple targets. Missiles are good for hit n runs. Or when fully crewed with two additional small missiles where you drown a target with missile fire without worry of overheating. Missiles are nice but have weaknesses vs dual Gardner shield tanks or brick maddies with fuel injectors Again I'm not saying I don't want missiles to be a good turret type I am merely suggesting that with 3.5x the DPS of another turret and given that missiles have never traditionally held a DPS role in New Eden how can you guys ignore the incredible potency of these weapons? What's the reload speed of the Large Missile Turrets? They might not require a massive change provided the reload delay/time is long enough to account for it Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 145	Posted - 2015.01.12 12:05:00 - [66] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: True Adamance wrote: Again I'm not saying I don't want missiles to be a good turret type I am merely suggesting that with 3.5x the DPS of another turret and given that missiles have never traditionally held a DPS role in New Eden how can you guys ignore the incredible potency of these weapons? Because your reasons are nitpicking rather than relevant. Missiles DPS role in Eve online has nothing to do with the conversation. Missile Pros and cons Pro: High aplha DPS Bonus to Amor Neutral: Medium range, you have to get into the fight to do anything worth while, rail tanks can pop you Cons: Low sustainable DPS Long reload times 10 seconds Weak vs shields Poor vs infantry Thanks for that link, now I can calculate sustained DPS values (I couldn't find it)...although it is a bit out of date Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 145	Posted - 2015.01.12 14:58:00 - [67] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: alright monkeys, I'm just now editing the missing modules into the chromosome spreadsheet. I'll also be working on a tab called theorycrafting for recommended adjustments for various things, such as the plasma canno, which looking at the numbers probably won't need much adjustment to make perfectly viable as it seems to have DPS values similar to an assault forge on first glance. If anyone has a hard DPS number on the PLCs I would much appreciate it. I'm also playing with the idea of recommending removal of splash from the assault forge to compensate for what would be the faster rate of fire. That way we can keep it from being used to eternally camp hack points with the splash as has been done with it in the past due to the rapid firing cycle, and as my peace offering when I post my recommendation that the standard forge gun be placed squarely between the assault and breach for DPS and alpha purposes, so that it has a place in the game other than "heavy sniper rifle" I am open to SERIOUS recommendations to also place into the theorycrafting tab, to include ideas to keep dropships and their pilots from being marginalized, whether that is via fitting increase, or via altering their baseline resistances to AV weapons. I will not be altering the base chromosome stats, because I want everyone to see the baseline I'm working on/have plagiarized from other places where other people have done the real work of compiling the data. All recommended changes will go under the theorycraft tab. Check my Infantry AV Tab, I've got the current values under there (including PLCs Max theoretical DPS) I just put the Gunnlogi fitting with 2 Shield Hardeners in, but I've got to run for a few minutes Deathwind Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 146	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:00:00 - [68] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: True Adamance wrote: Again I'm not saying I don't want missiles to be a good turret type I am merely suggesting that with 3.5x the DPS of another turret and given that missiles have never traditionally held a DPS role in New Eden how can you guys ignore the incredible potency of these weapons? Because your reasons are nitpicking rather than relevant. Missiles DPS role in Eve online has nothing to do with the conversation. Missile Pros and cons Pro: High aplha DPS Bonus to Amor Neutral: Medium range, you have to get into the fight to do anything worth while, rail tanks can pop you Cons: Low sustainable DPS Long reload times 10 seconds Weak vs shields Poor vs infantry Thanks for that link, now I can calculate sustained DPS values (I couldn't find it)...although it is a bit out of date id like to see the eHP for a dual shield hardened gunnlogi with a shield booster. its missing from your proposal and it should be shown. i think that combo has higher eHP than a maddy other than the dual plate + hardner fit you had. people claim missile kill anything and everything, but not that particular gunnlogi. its the toughest tank combo in the game and you can run it full complex mods with dual small proto rails and the 1 large proto rail I'm changing my methodology for the Current fittings and focussing on primary buffer, so I'm eliminating the plate from the first one, and only fitting the minimum mods for the primary buffer (for now, I'll go back later and do silly armor stacking on a gunnlogi things later). And you're almost right, that combo has only about 700 hp fewer than the dual plater w/ hardener, while mounting a proto main gun, and only requiring a basic PG expansion...it has plenty of room to expand to pick up dual small turrets (probably proto, but I haven't gotten small gun stats loaded up yet). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 146	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:06:00 - [69] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: thanks thaddeus I'll add you to the list of people I'm plagiarizing from. By the way I edited my last post to clarify a few things. Would my proposed naming changes be considered reasonable? (Just trying to keep naming schemes similar between both the ground-side and space-side fluff) Such as the Electron-Proton-Neutron progression for Blasters, and Calibers for the Railguns...(maybe naming Specialized Turrets after T2 Ammo etc) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 147	Posted - 2015.01.12 16:44:00 - [70] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: only the stats in the theorycraft tab are modified, and amended with notes. Everything else is straight chrome crap. Only the stats in theorycrafting WILL be modified. Hey thaddeus I'm stealing your template. automatic DPS calculation based on changes is insanely helpful. Feel free, easy enough to come up with on one's own anyway Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 147	Posted - 2015.01.12 17:51:00 - [71] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Recommending no change from current on swarm launchers. the theorycraft tab is a carbon copy of the current values, as those numbers are viable vs. Chromosome marauders. I would like to add a fairly reasonable suggestion: Mjolnir Swarms. Same Swarm Stats but with the Laser (+20/-20) Damage Type: Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher KIM7 Mjolnir Swarm Launcher KIM-112 Specialist Mjolnir Swarm Launcher CCM-129 Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Khanid Innovations Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Khanid Innovations Specialist Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Carthum Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Also, I'm lovin' the Scrambler Lance Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 147	Posted - 2015.01.12 19:39:00 - [72] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Recommending no change from current on swarm launchers. the theorycraft tab is a carbon copy of the current values, as those numbers are viable vs. Chromosome marauders. I would like to add a fairly reasonable suggestion: Mjolnir Swarms. Same Swarm Stats but with the Laser (+20/-20) Damage Type: Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher KIM7 Mjolnir Swarm Launcher KIM-112 Specialist Mjolnir Swarm Launcher CCM-129 Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Khanid Innovations Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Khanid Innovations Specialist Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Carthum Assault Mjolnir Swarm Launcher Also, I'm lovin' the Scrambler Lance 1. Not unless you add in all 4 damage types that are in EVE, currently all we have is shield and armor damage 1. I'm not sure you need to numbered list if said list only contains one item (although in general I like your numbered lists) 2. I fully support this product and/or service (although, you could work with Inferno being Hybrid-Plasma (+10/-10) and Scourge being Hybrid-Rail (-10/+10) ). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 148	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:15:00 - [73] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: separated theorycrafting into three tabs. AV theorycrafting Turret Theorycrafting Dropship Theorycrafting Waiting on HAV driver and Dropship pilot input to tackle the last two. Dropships have a few major issues: Swarms balanced around killing tanks will always have an easy time killing Derpships (unless dropships can outrun swarms...which makes swarms completely irrelevant at killing derpships) Blasters are next to useless on dropships...so a role wide bonus to optimal range/dispersion would be helpful on them. They don't have the eHP to sustain hovering over a given area to provide fire support or any other kind of support really (so they can't fulfill the roll of gunships, medivacs, spawn beacons etc) Dropship issues could be addressed through expanding fitting (both stats and slots). As well, they could benefit from some sort of active countermeasure against swarms (limited built-in supply of flares or some such nonsense). In addition, they could greatly benefit from changes to the mCRU (Making it function more similarly to the other spawn options...as currently a player has to be clone terminated to select an mCRU). I would suggest that peak STD Dropship eHP should be something similar to a high-tier MLT HAV, and adjust from there HAV current top speed isn't altogether unreasonable IMO, the Gunnlogi has a bit much in acceleration, and the Maddy could use some more. In addition, I don't think we should limit our thinking on HAVs to just be Tanks...a Heavy Attack Vehicle can refer to a number of possible configurations...I think they could benefit from a few transport slots that get taken away depending on configuration. I also think that the Top Small Guns could use a larger angle of fire (I think they should be able to shoot up to put it simply). Front Small Turrets could benefit from being moved onto the top of the hull proper...and an option for a Co-Axial Small gun would be nice (although, a Co-Axial could make them too much like solo-murder machines) /Rambling Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 148	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:18:00 - [74] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: added placeholder stats for an officer scrambler lance and militia scrambler lance Does the Scrambler Lance look like this? I hate you. No. GOD no. We'd need a mechanical horse for that to be justifiable. The weapon only looks like a Lance, but shoots Lazors like what you'd expect Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 148	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:23:00 - [75] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: True Adamance wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: added placeholder stats for an officer scrambler lance and militia scrambler lance Does the Scrambler Lance look like this? I hate you. No. GOD no. We'd need a mechanical horse for that to be justifiable. The weapon only looks like a Lance, but shoots Lazors like what you'd expect looks too much like a dark reaper missile launcher as well. and thaddeus you gave me an idea You say that like it's a bad thing XD the Sniper Rifle looks like a Pulse Rifle Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 148	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:31:00 - [76] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adamance you may approve of this. It would allow a HAV driver to fully coordinate with a squad. Infantry Transport Bay in module theorycrafting Sooo much this.. I instead proposed a base increase to transport capacity that was reduced by higher tier turrets (But tbh, I like the module more) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 148	Posted - 2015.01.12 23:36:00 - [77] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Now imagine carrying supporting infantry from objective to objective while you provide supporting fire and they provide you with a screen against bastards like me who do things like shoot you with a forge gun. Maddies....MADDIES...OUR ENEMIES HIDE IN METAL BAWKSES as someone who loves to run a CRU on his HAV and park it as a battle-box, I love the module idea Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 149	Posted - 2015.01.13 15:29:00 - [78] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The idea of versatility and providing tactical flexibility and options should apply as equally to vehicles as to infantry. Further whenever I cite real world and historical examples they are summarily dismissed. I see no reason I should treat those arguments any different. Finally this is a proposal not the document which has been chosen for use. Nor am I particularly of the mind that everything from the theorycraft tabs will be used even were it adopted. But allowing an HAV to operate with a cohesive squad hardly seemed unreasonable given that usually the best defense from infantry AV is an infantry screen. My current issue with the bay is that the fitting cost seems extremely high, particularly for a module with such a high penalty to base defense associated with it Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 149	Posted - 2015.01.13 15:48:00 - [79] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I made it cost less than a standard small turret. In exchange for having a potential of two small gunners plus three point defense/hack point assaulting infantry. The net benefit far outweighs the cost. We will ignore that it is an optional module because I think forcibly inflicting tagalongs who want to AFK and reap kill assists in vehicles need to die in a fire. The module can be easily removed from play once (if) MAVs are introduced at a later date. Did you get your CPU/PG columns reversed then? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 149	Posted - 2015.01.13 19:47:00 - [80] - Quote Breakin', what about making some vehicle scale "EWAR" (as they call it dust side) with different levels of detection, sensor radii and profiles... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 150	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:08:00 - [81] - Quote Link Updated my base stats, as well as some module stats (particularly Armor Plates) Expanded Slots to 7 each, and fitting to allow for the slots to be filled (as well as shown where my proposed skills would effect things) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 150	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:30:00 - [82] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Link Updated my base stats, as well as some module stats (particularly Armor Plates) Expanded Slots to 7 each, and fitting to allow for the slots to be filled (as well as shown where my proposed skills would effect things) eyeballing the maddy examples, I'm seeing similar overall EHP levels to the sagaris from chrome The Maddy Examples are current fittings with current values (The Semi-viable ones I could think of)...(so if they're similar to the sagaris, take that as a little indication of AV's current situation vs armor) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 150	Posted - 2015.01.13 22:41:00 - [83] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Link Updated my base stats, as well as some module stats (particularly Armor Plates) Expanded Slots to 7 each, and fitting to allow for the slots to be filled (as well as shown where my proposed skills would effect things) eyeballing the maddy examples, I'm seeing similar overall EHP levels to the sagaris from chrome The Maddy Examples are current fittings with current values (The Semi-viable ones I could think of)...(so if they're similar to the sagaris, take that as a little indication of AV's current situation vs armor) that's a magazine and a half from proto IAFG to kill. average TTK well over 15 seconds. With current HAV speeds that's a guaranteed escape. How do you intend to balance the marauders, which are even more bricky traditionally? Tweaking the armor plates right now, I buffed them up a little too much...check now Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 155	Posted - 2015.01.14 13:02:00 - [84] - Quote I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 156	Posted - 2015.01.14 16:54:00 - [85] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome So the pilot controls missiles that can't lock, but someone else controls the missiles that do lock? Another bad idea from infantry. So...you're trying to say that I'm Infantry? That I'm not an HAV operator? I personally would like a Guided Missile Launcher for a Main Turret because I would find it more useful (as it could still be used for artillery purposes, by guiding it around obstacles and into tight positions), and could still be used for both Anti-Vehicle and Anti-Infantry Proposes, an ability I would find to be too powerful to put on a small turret. Swarm pods on the other hand would be pure AV, with no AI capabilities whatsoever... Now if you wanted to add on a lock-on Missile Launcher, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but it wouldn't be one that I would personally use...not versatile enough for my tastes Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.15 00:30:00 - [86] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome So the pilot controls missiles that can't lock, but someone else controls the missiles that do lock? Another bad idea from infantry. So...you're trying to say that I'm Infantry? That I'm not an HAV operator? I personally would like a Guided Missile Launcher for a Main Turret because I would find it more useful (as it could still be used for artillery purposes, by guiding it around obstacles and into tight positions), and could still be used for both Anti-Vehicle and Anti-Infantry Proposes, an ability I would find to be too powerful to put on a small turret. Swarm pods on the other hand would be pure AV, with no AI capabilities whatsoever... Now if you wanted to add on a lock-on Missile Launcher, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but it wouldn't be one that I would personally use...not versatile enough for my tastes I always quite liked the idea of small missile pods I could activate during the rechambering time of my HAV's main gun..... if you look at the old fan art of the Caldari Marauder you'll see what I mean. http://www.univers-virtuels.net/imgs/gc12/ccp/DUST514/Art/ConceptArt/Vehicles/caldari_HAV_GallenteTurret.jpg Something like a Coaxial Small Gun? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.15 02:19:00 - [87] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I'd love to add Swarm Pods as a Small Turret...and Guided Missiles as a Large Turret (Guided missiles being controlled by where you are pointed, while swarm pods are lock-on) but swarm pods seem like they'd be a bit awesome So the pilot controls missiles that can't lock, but someone else controls the missiles that do lock? Another bad idea from infantry. So...you're trying to say that I'm Infantry? That I'm not an HAV operator? It's a terrible idea, and infantry come up with terrible ideas. So...how about instead of going on a McCarthyesque Witchhunt for "Infantry" and further hurting your credibility, why don't you actually discuss why you dislike the ideas? Infantry and AVers have every right to comment on the Balance of our HAVs, vehicle modules, and turrets, just as we have every right to comment on the balance of Dropsuits, Dropsuit Modules, and Weapons. I have put forward that I like the Idea of adding a Guided Missile Turret (not replacing current "Missile" turrets) where the missile(s) launched would follow your crosshairs in their flightpath instead of a lock-on function because I feel that a Guided Missile would give me much more versatility as a vehicle operator, particularly in the areas of bombardment, and artillery support, not to mention it would take away your ability to engage infantry entirely. As I stated above (which you conviniently cropped out of the quotation) I am not opposed to a lock-on main turret, and stated that I would not want to loose my potential bombardment support capabilities, so would not use them and instead opt for my mainstay railgun. Swarm Pods would be the smaller, more limited version. A lock-on function making them essentially mounted swarms seems like the easiest way to implement them, and would be a major boon to small turret operators for AV purposes. Not to mention it would prove helpful on LAVs and ADSs, providing them another option for harassing HAVs, and hopefully making the whole of vehicle combat more interesting and varied, while making them more vulnerable to AV toting infantry themselves. Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.15 03:39:00 - [88] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Hey Thaddeus if I threw you some main battle cannon stats could you bash some sense into them? I'm trying to keep the turrets themselves unique, with as few disparities between them as possible. I have the Charged Electron Blaster - A tri-barrel electron accelerator that fires three projectiles at one in a small cluster. 150mm Carbide Railgun - A single shot high muzzle velocity railgun with the most devastating AoE. Dual Focused Pulse Laser - A pulsing laser turret with no AoE but also no ammunition values or projectile falloff. 200mm Artillery Cannon - A devastating anti tank cannon with the highest AoE splash zone and alpha but slow reload and a lower muzzle velocity. They need a bit of checking as their DPS values don't totally line up with how I want them however each turret has character which I think will be fantastic for the role. Sure I can take a look for you Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.15 19:10:00 - [89] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: fair enough. used the forge guns as the baseline because LOLswarms. at each level the Scrambler lance is only 50 DPS from the Assault forge at each level. the Autocannon is within 50 of the standard forge at each level the plasma mortar is within 50 of the breach forge at each level. So there's predictable and consistent performance at all levels. Fast firing/high DPS run DPS similar to the IAFG, medium fire rate/alpha to the standard forge guns and the slow fire/high alpha to the breach. I'm letting the damage profiles and the actual differences in firing mechanics do the heavy lifting rather than having wildly varying performances that seem random as hell between weapons. It also makes creating variants less headache inducing because there's a guideline. so if you wanted the assault plasma mortar, you could start with the 575 DPS range, slightly below the IAFG and work the mechanics outward from there. Breakin, do you mind if I borrow your Heavy weapons ideas (adjusted to my numbers ofc) for when I get around to AV theorycrafting? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.15 20:23:00 - [90] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. Logi DS need a kick out button 2. Specalized hulls work on a role bonus and then a racial bonus, this can be upto 3 skills max - Tweek to the LLAV skill 2a. Either 2 bonus skills for its role and 1 racial or vice versa - This is seen in infantry suits such as the Minmatar Logi 2b. Not sure if Basic Hulls should get anything skill bonus wise to compete and not be made useless compared to Marauder/Enforcer 3. Any turrets which are anti infantry are for killing just infantry and will be useless against vehicles 4. No AV numbers since this is about vehicles, just add in current AV numbers now and tweek from then on 5. Shield passive recharge is constant 6. Remote reps are area of effect to remove the dodgy targeting system 6a. Remote reps can rep as many vehicles as is in the AOE, the rep rate its self will be divided by as many vehicles which are in the AOE area - Changed AOE is for light only, Heavy remote reps are tether still 6b. Light reps can work on infantry, 50% reduced rate amount - Undecided 6c. No repair turrets - It does not take 2 to use an infantry repair tool 6d. Yet to add AOE distance - AOE distances added, same with tether ranges 7. Most modules have been tiered to a certain level 7a. Some modules have lower CPU/PG requirements and lower bonus as a result but not all modules have a module like this - I may add to all for variety purposes 7b. Some values taken from EVE 7c. Some new modules added 7d. Shield/Armor mods same resistance % 7e. Added 2 new modules, Target breaker which stops being locked on for x amount of time and also the module breaks AV nade homing mechanism so to get damage the AV nade require aim and to hit the vehicle - ECM Burst module is passive and increases lock on time, also % chance to break lock - Both high slot 8. Hulls have had certain stats changed 8a. ADS gains 2 slots, will lose all passenger slots, can be a 3man vehicle with 3 turrets, buffed Shield/Armor values 8b. Enforcer 1 main turret, no small turrets but undecided atm, 4/3 layout 8c. Marauder 5/3 8d. Basic HAV 4/2 9. PC/FW before pubs 10. Skills - ECM/Target breaker modules need a skill bonus 11. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m7G9wnM6gcnNM6oP6mw5oYgHQZF6XYelYh0PTgk72iM/pubhtml To address point 1. Why not X...labelled as Bay doors or something on flying vehicles? I love the EWAR concept actually having some EWAR now XD... The Target breaker as you have it could be very powerful...I'd suggest instead a penalty to lock on times instead of just a flat out "No Locking"...I'm fine with it throwing off AV 'nades Shield Regen numbers look solid. I'd go with Either or on the Marauder Bonuses...you're increasing it's EHP by a frakton there (or tone down both bonuses, Marauders need to be Tanky as hell, but not unassailable) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:19:00 - [91] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'd like to reiterate that player count and map design are both too small for vehicles to excel, especially transport vehicles, and HAV's, and slightly for LAV's (as in Tech 1 LAV"s) don't really have roles (No, disposable taxi isn't a role). For the HAV, as I've said before, new installations to be added that could be used, protected, and destroyed by both infantry and vehicles would be a great thing for HAV's, at least T I HAV's to be centered around (obviously T II would be different, being good at doing other things, such as Enforcers being good at killing other HAV's, while still being able to kill structures). I'm not even sure what to do with regular LAV's. The only thing I could think of is a platform to give a heavy infantry suppression platform, and for that to work, small turrets would have to be good suppression weapons. LLV's as I said can be the king reppers for vehicles, and Scout LAV's can be some sort of EWAR platform down the road. DS's imo has reasonable roles, being a rapid troop transport, LDS being a rapid troop deploment, and ADS being more of a assault platform while still being able to transport a small fireteam (Although the almost gunship-like abilities imo needs to be toned down), so tweaking is the only thing really needed. However, the maps are WAY too small to really support them. Put it like this: I've crossed some of the smaller maps in a solid 12 seconds. This isn't however in a DS; this was in a HAV (Don't ask). This is a feat pretty much done on any map in a DS w.e a AB. That's uncalled for. Certainly also worth mentioning with reference to Dust vehicles, mainly tanks, if that they don't really have very realistic range profiles. I understand the hard cap on the Railgun of 500m is to prevent one player shooting across the map from redline to redline But I honestly think that a hard damage fallout at that range might be better rather than a simple disappearance of the round itself. In many game I have played with vehicles ranges on the tanks can usually hit a target at up to about 750m and this usually comes with a significant amount of having to account for projectile drop. Adamance, I've been theorycrafting some numbers for a Guided Missile Turret, any chance you can take a look at it? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.16 02:47:00 - [92] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: I'd like to reiterate that player count and map design are both too small for vehicles to excel, especially transport vehicles, and HAV's, and slightly for LAV's (as in Tech 1 LAV"s) don't really have roles (No, disposable taxi isn't a role). For the HAV, as I've said before, new installations to be added that could be used, protected, and destroyed by both infantry and vehicles would be a great thing for HAV's, at least T I HAV's to be centered around (obviously T II would be different, being good at doing other things, such as Enforcers being good at killing other HAV's, while still being able to kill structures). I'm not even sure what to do with regular LAV's. The only thing I could think of is a platform to give a heavy infantry suppression platform, and for that to work, small turrets would have to be good suppression weapons. LLV's as I said can be the king reppers for vehicles, and Scout LAV's can be some sort of EWAR platform down the road. DS's imo has reasonable roles, being a rapid troop transport, LDS being a rapid troop deploment, and ADS being more of a assault platform while still being able to transport a small fireteam (Although the almost gunship-like abilities imo needs to be toned down), so tweaking is the only thing really needed. However, the maps are WAY too small to really support them. Put it like this: I've crossed some of the smaller maps in a solid 12 seconds. This isn't however in a DS; this was in a HAV (Don't ask). This is a feat pretty much done on any map in a DS w.e a AB. That's uncalled for. Certainly also worth mentioning with reference to Dust vehicles, mainly tanks, if that they don't really have very realistic range profiles. I understand the hard cap on the Railgun of 500m is to prevent one player shooting across the map from redline to redline But I honestly think that a hard damage fallout at that range might be better rather than a simple disappearance of the round itself. In many game I have played with vehicles ranges on the tanks can usually hit a target at up to about 750m and this usually comes with a significant amount of having to account for projectile drop. Adamance, I've been theorycrafting some numbers for a Guided Missile Turret, any chance you can take a look at it? Okeydoke btw have you considered muzzle velocity as numerical value for these statistics. For example a TOW missile turret if I am not woefully mistaken has a muzzle velocity of 278m/s. I've put the stats on the Large Turrets Page on my overall Proposal...still hammering out the numbers though Yet Another Link To My Spreadsheets Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:06:00 - [93] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I've put the stats on the Large Turrets Page on my overall Proposal...still hammering out the numbers though Yet Another Link To My Spreadsheets Okay these are my initial impressions from the information you have - Blast Radius is insanely big. That's fire meters on either side of the initial point of detonation for a total of 315 damage..... which means you don't even need to hit a target to apply damage.... - Velocity if I am not mistake is 144kmph...which seems to me a little fast on the basis that since the rocket is guided by the player it could be potentially very difficult to control depending on how you intend to have the view. - View is this an on board camera? Is it wire guided from the standard field of vision? - How do you intend to have the missile handle? An on-board camera would be awesome, but runs into it's own balance issues (if it could even be implemented)...things like not needing LoS and such...so either guidance system would work for me Missile Handling would be heavily based on the control systems that could be implemented, anything from HalfLife2's Missile Launcher, to a predator missile from CoD. Velocity is something that would actually need to be tested out...and would be heavily dependent on the control system again and Blast Radius on grenades is still larger, but I see what you mean (especially given the precision this weapon could be delivered with) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:12:00 - [94] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: I've put the stats on the Large Turrets Page on my overall Proposal...still hammering out the numbers though Yet Another Link To My Spreadsheets Okay these are my initial impressions from the information you have - Blast Radius is insanely big. That's fire meters on either side of the initial point of detonation for a total of 315 damage..... which means you don't even need to hit a target to apply damage.... - Velocity if I am not mistake is 144kmph...which seems to me a little fast on the basis that since the rocket is guided by the player it could be potentially very difficult to control depending on how you intend to have the view. - View is this an on board camera? Is it wire guided from the standard field of vision? - How do you intend to have the missile handle? An on-board camera would be awesome, but runs into it's own balance issues (if it could even be implemented)...things like not needing LoS and such...so either guidance system would work for me Missile Handling would be heavily based on the control systems that could be implemented, anything from HalfLife2's Missile Launcher, to a predator missile from CoD. Velocity is something that would actually need to be tested out... and Blast Radius on grenades is still larger, but I see what you mean (especially given the precision this weapon could be delivered with) Also functionally would this weapon ideally be designed to be fired - Directly into an onboard camera - Directly into a "Wire Guided" Camera (keep your cursor on target and its hits it) -Or directly up into the air into an on-board camera. (aka like a Javelin or whatevs) "Wire Guided" is probably the easiest to balance... Directly into an Onboard Camera would be the one I want the most, but would be very powerful by virtue of being able to ignore LoS in a skilled hand Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 157	Posted - 2015.01.16 03:34:00 - [95] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Okay these are my initial impressions from the information you have - Blast Radius is insanely big. That's fire meters on either side of the initial point of detonation for a total of 315 damage..... which means you don't even need to hit a target to apply damage.... - Velocity if I am not mistake is 144kmph...which seems to me a little fast on the basis that since the rocket is guided by the player it could be potentially very difficult to control depending on how you intend to have the view. - View is this an on board camera? Is it wire guided from the standard field of vision? - How do you intend to have the missile handle? An on-board camera would be awesome, but runs into it's own balance issues (if it could even be implemented)...things like not needing LoS and such...so either guidance system would work for me Missile Handling would be heavily based on the control systems that could be implemented, anything from HalfLife2's Missile Launcher, to a predator missile from CoD. Velocity is something that would actually need to be tested out... and Blast Radius on grenades is still larger, but I see what you mean (especially given the precision this weapon could be delivered with) Also functionally would this weapon ideally be designed to be fired - Directly into an onboard camera - Directly into a "Wire Guided" Camera (keep your cursor on target and its hits it) -Or directly up into the air into an on-board camera. (aka like a Javelin or whatevs) "Wire Guided" is probably the easiest to balance... Directly into an Onboard Camera would be the one I want the most, but would be very powerful by virtue of being able to ignore LoS in a skilled hand Final question do the fire delay values represent the time between the detonation of the rocket once it finds its target/explodes or the launch of the first rocket. If the first rocket will it automatically follow the old trajectory along the wire or establish its own wire? in Which case does the first missile explode or continue to follow your guidance until it explodes? It represents the minimum amount of time to wait to fire another missile. You launch each Missile Independently, and you can't launch another missile until the previous missile is "detonated" or maybe a trajectory locked in feature. So you would hit a the firing trigger once to fire your first missile, pull it again to lock the missile in on that trajectory (where it accelerates and you loose control) then you could fire again, provided the 4 second time had passed...or that's how I imagined it Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:11:00 - [96] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: So. Im trying to decide which is better for the mortar. 1 shot, then 1 sec reload or 1 second shot intervals with a magazine. Thoughts? And I figured out appropriate bonusing for sentinels. Will also alter turret splash to conform to current meta. I need a guideline on "fair" splash values for vehicle guns. Making the turrets fully AV with no consideration to fighting infantry AV is a large portion of false perception that AV is currently OP in the case of the forge and PLC. Turrets either just can't land hits or they don't have the engagement range to cope with forges. Plasma cannon versus HAV seems to always stalemate with no real clear victor. The mortar is a Man-Portable thing right? If so I'd suggest a 1 second reload (or charge up time/reload totalling 1 second, to emulate PLC functionality) Splash values on large Turrets are something I'm having difficulty figuring out myself... Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 12:55:00 - [97] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Splash damage ad dispersion on turrets is literally the difference between vehicles being a dire threat toinfantry and farming infantry for KDR and WP. It's also make or break for the purpose of vehicles and AV fighting for dominance and AV automatically driving away the vehicles without recourse. The splash resistance on sentinels was a good compromise but unfortunately it had too much unanticipated effect on infantry ability to eject entrenched fatties. My thought would be to place turret splash at the halfway point between chrome numbers and current for radius. I also want to dump sentinel splash and make the role bonus the pg/cpu break on heavy weapons visible. Drop the resists to 10% on both resists and give them a racial weapon bonus. That way they will retain durability but lose unassailability vs. Splash weapons. It was awesome for surviving railguns but there's too much secondary marginalizing of other weapons. And I don't think making the bonuses do more DPS vs vehicles would be appropriate because I'd have to rework the AV numbers to account for it. More things like the gallente resists plasma splash. The amarr explodes more slowly as the lance overheats. Maybe ammo capacity for minmatar or reticle tightening. The caldari is hardest. I'm inclined to do something like a 3% fitting break on damage mods. The forge gun at this point is pretty tightly tuned. Reducing charge is a no. Reload is already fast enough. Suggestions? Range is always Caldari in Flavor (Base range would need to be adjusted to still be useable without a caldari sentinel, but smaller so a Caldari Range bonus would be powerful enough to compete with other suit bonuses)...movement speed while charging is another option (if you want to amp the FG specifically for it) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:04:00 - [98] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: No. Making the forge outrange a large rail turret potentially is bad. I dont want to encourage even more idiots to treat it as a ghetto sniper cannon. Also the movement penalty would break the balance. The charging movement penalty kept me from shenanigans which would have been utterly unfair and abusive. It needs to slow you while charging. Damn forge gun being so finely tuned...and I take it you'd be opposed to nerfing the base range stat and making to where Caldari retained current functionality at Level 5? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 13:10:00 - [99] - Quote doraa daexploora wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: No. Making the forge outrange a large rail turret potentially is bad. I dont want to encourage even more idiots to treat it as a ghetto sniper cannon. Also the movement penalty would break the balance. The charging movement penalty kept me from shenanigans which would have been utterly unfair and abusive. It needs to slow you while charging. Damn forge gun being so finely tuned...and I take it you'd be opposed to nerfing the base range stat and making to where Caldari retained current functionality at Level 5? That would be like me saying "Im reducing HAV railguns to 100m. You must skill into a caldari hull to make it useful." Nerfing and creating a fix just bandaids the issue. Ammo capacity in the mag is possible but 9 shots between reloads is one of those facepalm ideas with alpha weapons. Not a major nerf to the range stat, maybe reduce it to 350 (I think FG is 400m Currently) meters while giving Caldari suits a 3% per level range bonus (to get 402.5m at LV5) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:06:00 - [100] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 320 optimal 320 absolute Snipers start at 350-450 and they will cry lime little girls if we bring the forge to equal range. So then Reduce it to 280 meter range, and give the Caldari Sentinel a 3% per level (CalSentinel would use it at 322m then)? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 159	Posted - 2015.01.16 14:08:00 - [101] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Could accelerate the projectile speed or tighten the reticle. Other good options Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 161	Posted - 2015.01.16 16:34:00 - [102] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I think I figured out how to do the heavy turrets so the Rails and Missiles aren't the clearly superior option. this will require me to clean up the turret trees and dump all of the redundant variants. Most of the different turrets are actually miniscule variations of the same job. Can anyone think of a reason to keep this many turrets that have the exact same DPS within the same variant? Variety? Something we lack right now. I was reading the list wrong, it's exactly like the damn AV weapon lists, only a gigantic clusterf*ck of inconsistent performance. I HATE numbers that aren't working from a pattern that comes off as sane. For the chromosome vets: What was an acceptable baseline DPS level for most turrets to be competitive? I need a BASELINE so I can make the turrets perform consistently without havint ONE TURRET TO RULE THEM ALL. Not high DPS, not low DPS, pre-skills, no damage mods. Just a baseline, ballpark DPS level. AV baseline DPS before all other factors was right around 500 DPS to be considered viable, roughly depending on which flavor of psycho was running the gun. My thought is put HAV turrets 100 DPS ahead of Heavy AV DPS lines Seems like a solid base to me Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 161	Posted - 2015.01.16 20:52:00 - [103] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Missiles don't have enough velocity, at least currently to be half reliable at any range. The only chance you have is if the other tank stays completely still, which goes completely against the first rule of tanking. that can be addressed in iteration. there's a lot of projectiles in DUST that move too slow to be effective. Whoever designed the damn Railgun, why the rippling HELL did you put TWO firing delay mechanics in together? Thaddeus I have a critique: there's no possible reason to have a 3k+ DPS weapon unless it's intended to be the God-Gun from which there is no recovery. Your various MLRS setups need a bit of checking there hoss. That's about enough firepower to instapop anything, especially when combined with skills and damage mods. Still working on it (DPS btw is DPS without reload considered), so are supposed to function similarly to the current Missiles Turrets Got some new numbers on the MLRS for you to check out, and what do you think of the new turret page format? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 161	Posted - 2015.01.16 21:07:00 - [104] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: 2,766 DPS? At Standard? I think I found out why Madrugars die when you sneeze on them in HAV vs HAV engagements! The damn missile turrets are insane. There's a reason why True Doesn't like them, their alpha would be Ok (see Damage Per Magazine...does need to be slightly tuned down) if they had lower sustained DPS numbers Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 161	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:33:00 - [105] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: True Adamance wrote: Certainly also worth mentioning with reference to Dust vehicles, mainly tanks, if that they don't really have very realistic range profiles. I understand the hard cap on the Railgun of 500m is to prevent one player shooting across the map from redline to redline But I honestly think that a hard damage fallout at that range might be better rather than a simple disappearance of the round itself. In many game I have played with vehicles ranges on the tanks can usually hit a target at up to about 750m and this usually comes with a significant amount of having to account for projectile drop. Adamance, I've been theorycrafting some numbers for a Guided Missile Turret, any chance you can take a look at it? Okeydoke btw have you considered muzzle velocity as numerical value for these statistics. For example a TOW missile turret if I am not woefully mistaken has a muzzle velocity of 278m/s. I've put the stats on the Large Turrets Page on my overall Proposal...still hammering out the numbers though Yet Another Link To My Spreadsheets Question: You described the blasters as having shots per round at either 8 or 12. What are you describing exactly? I'm just gong to assume shotty turret for the moment and pray that I'm correct, unless it's something cooler. Yeah, just redid it into a shotty turret a short while ago Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 161	Posted - 2015.01.16 22:40:00 - [106] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus, read my edit, your welcome. Fixed, sorry I didn't update that statistic, got distracted by something else Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:02:00 - [107] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Speaking of turrets, that reminds me: FW turrets are still just AUR turrets, same as vehilces, and on top of that, we're missing my Gal rails. Where are they, huh? HUH? as though people needed another reason to avoid fighting for the Caldari State...yeah...technically FedMarine Railguns should exist, and technically, the Cal/Gal dropsuits/vehicles should get bonuses to Hybrids, not just to rail and plasma... anyway, I hope we see some new LP vehicle stuff coming down with this...'Specialist' Turrets would be very useful Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:16:00 - [108] - Quote True Adamance wrote: What range with this turret have? How large will its projectile grouping be? Still trying to work that one out, probably will start with values derived from railguns v blasters on frigates. As for the Projectile Grouping, maybe about as large as the Current Blaster reticule (when 50% dilated) at Optimal? What's the Rail-Turret's Current Optimal Range? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.16 23:55:00 - [109] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: True Adamance wrote: What range with this turret have? How large will its projectile grouping be? Another two questions I was wondering. I assume tight enough to hit a HAV within 20-30m (usual fighting distance from the good HAV fighting days), and the optimal to match would be about right. And yes, I'm serious when it is that range. If you don't believe me, test it on a emptyish match and a objective at ground level, and act as it's a HAV, orbit it and **** and see how far out you go. And speaking of blasters, I was just speaking to Breakin (Well still talking), and I've came to a couple conclusions: 1: Although I would say that I wouldn't approve of still keeping tiers, seeing as we're trying to get HAV's as well as DS's and LAV's in at least a workable state, making them tiered doesn't matter. I will say though that I don't particullarly like some of the adjustments of your turrets in the tiers (what's with the seats being taken away?). 2: I also don't like how there's only two per class, but again, we're trying to get it to a working state, and three is better than one. However, I've thought of two that you could possibly add. First is a fit saving blaster that is reduced in efficiency, but easier to fit. Also, Breakin came up with a idea of having a almost slug like blaster, still firing in full auto, but only doing two shots per second, with a high amount of damage (can't remember what numbers he decided on however) per shot. Would you say this is something we could add into your idea? To address the queston of Seats being taken away, instead of having a module to add seat (like what breakin has in his) I added base seats to the HAVs for transport purposes, that get taken away when you fit a "larger" gun. A Solid Slugthrowing blaster would be Ok to add, I'll just take a little while to generate statistics...as for the reduced fitting one, there are Specialist Variations of infantry weapons, why not for vehicles? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:35:00 - [110] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: @ Thaddeus- 1: What is your motivation for putting in 90mm plates? 2: What's the difference between mounted DU and the mCRU? 3: nanofibres were a good addition to the game, and were used in quite a few fits. Would you say that bringing them back is a good idea? 4: I'm going to try and make some fits with your current stats at lvl 5 (because as soon as this drops, hopefull I will have lvl 5, or at least real close). I will report to see how the fits goes. Ok In Order 1. To assist Small Vehicles (Primarily Dropships) by giving them a higher HP options to put onto their vehicles, for a similar relative cost to what the HAVs get 2: Mounted Drop Uplink would be a Low Powered Slot option, that takes up CPU primarily, but has lower efficacy than the mCRU, primarily to allow use of a Spawn Point on either Shield or Armor based vehicles, without sacrificing primary tank potential. 3. I'm still working on adding the modules, I got caught up in the Large Turrets, so I'll try to bring them back 4. Thanks, I can use help checking my work and telling me where I suggest something completely broken Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:42:00 - [111] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: By the way, this is what I'm using to make the fits. You're free to copy and edit as needed, as that's what I'm doing. You need to change sharing permissions, right now one has to request access, open in up to Anyone With Link can View, or Anyone with Link Can Comment Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:03:00 - [112] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey Thaddeus, can I get you to give me a table that does a burst fire setup? I need a charge time, burst shot count and burst interval. kinda like if you added a forge gun charge to the combat rifle. only without the burst interval. Do you still need it? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:25:00 - [113] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Hey Thaddeus, can I get you to give me a table that does a burst fire setup? I need a charge time, burst shot count and burst interval. kinda like if you added a forge gun charge to the combat rifle. only without the burst interval. Do you still need it? Yup. I added a new sheet, it that what you needed? Also, how can I find you on skype, would be easier to get specifics if you need me to set up calculations (without flooding the forums that is)? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:14:00 - [114] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: gimmie a skype handle and I'll contact ya Try searching for this Character name, should be in quotes between my first and last name Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.18 06:30:00 - [115] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: @ Thaddeus- What do you mean by giant MD? You have quite long ranges on your Arties, but MD's are known for being really bad at long range. How do you plan on fixing that? A fast flying shell, or indirect fire? Also, why is it full auto with such a long interval between shots? Also, I was thinking that I didn't like the idea of reintroducing tiers, but I get using vehicles as a starting point. However, in EVE, the differences of the sizes in class of the turrets was stronger for less tracking. Is this your intent? A giant Mass Driver with a faster shell and a less eccentric arc to address Range Issues, but anything to give them artillery functionality (I was just suggesting a simple method for modifying an existing weapon so not much new has to be done). and Full Auto mainly because of Auto-fill, I'll update shortly Tiered Turrets are already part of DUST, but I would like to see downsides to using larger ones, in my current suggestion, you sacrifice transport capacity for higher stats...but lower tracking is also an option Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.18 06:49:00 - [116] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: @ Thaddeus- What do you mean by giant MD? You have quite long ranges on your Arties, but MD's are known for being really bad at long range. How do you plan on fixing that? A fast flying shell, or indirect fire? Also, why is it full auto with such a long interval between shots? Also, I was thinking that I didn't like the idea of reintroducing tiers, but I get using vehicles as a starting point. However, in EVE, the differences of the sizes in class of the turrets was stronger for less tracking. Is this your intent? A giant Mass Driver with a faster shell and a less eccentric arc to address Range Issues, but anything to give them artillery functionality (I was just suggesting a simple method for modifying an existing weapon so not much new has to be done). and Full Auto mainly because of Auto-fill, I'll update shortly Tiered Turrets are already part of DUST, but I would like to see downsides to using larger ones, in my current suggestion, you sacrifice transport capacity for higher stats...but lower tracking is also an option It'd also need a way better sight than the MD (because you know, MD has that terribad hip sight, and even worse actual sight) too. As for the desc, I did see that, I was just wondering for more of a elaboration. So faster shot. I'd like to see indirect fire tbh, but as you said, lots of work would need to be done. Maybe later on hopefully. Okay. Damn autofill messing up people -_- You misunderstand, I mean rather than tierciding them, putting back in tiered turrets. I forgot about the seat thing, but as we discussed before, that would only be temporary, until the devs can put in more things for HAV's to do as well as more importantly MAV's in which these new seats is supposed to make up for. There would still need to be a "Other" thing it could possibly make up for. Well...the MD needs a better way to sight as well...but a sight for both of them that's something like this...with practice it can be very very accurate. Wait...do you want Tiered Turrets or do you want to Tiericide Turrets? Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.18 06:57:00 - [117] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Though I hate using bullet pointed numbers I kinda have to reply. 1.) I do not think the Shotgun turret as Thaddeus has outlined it to my understand is necessarily reflecting modern day technologies or particularly realistic. I say this due to the method of the delivery of the fragments. To my understanding he intends for the rounds to fly free from the muzzle of the main gun. I would argue this is probably an inefficient means of delivering the rounds as energy would burn off during the delivery wouldn't it? If he suggested the shot gun was fired initially from a canister and then fragmented at range to reduce the spread and energy burn off then I think I could perhaps better accept it. Also yeah there are Cannister rounds that fire those fragmentation balls you were talking about but again would suggest they'd be ineffective against tank armours for the most part and simply better for the depiction perhaps of an anti personell round of a smaller calibre cannon. Especially when drawing from modern examples and honestly "logical process" (I understand this is subjective) I would think the technologies that go into tank production in New Eden would account for smaller calibre charges from the main weapons of the four empires and disperse the forces at work across a wider area. I certainly think the Shotgun shell could work as a variant ....like I Thaddeus may well have intended when he put that into the original excel sheet but would function as a less effective cannon type in terms of direct/accurate damage application. Now there's an idea, if we could have that functionality, I'd be all for it... My turret suggestions are mostly based on existing weapons so they could be more easily implemented, but any additional functionality people suggest I'll try to record in comments on the sheet itself. Also, Godin, you mentioned wanting a Solid Slug Blaster variant? What kind of stats did you have in mind? (Relative DPS values, refire rate, etc) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 162	Posted - 2015.01.18 07:49:00 - [118] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: @ Thaddeus- What do you mean by giant MD? You have quite long ranges on your Arties, but MD's are known for being really bad at long range. How do you plan on fixing that? A fast flying shell, or indirect fire? Also, why is it full auto with such a long interval between shots? Also, I was thinking that I didn't like the idea of reintroducing tiers, but I get using vehicles as a starting point. However, in EVE, the differences of the sizes in class of the turrets was stronger for less tracking. Is this your intent? A giant Mass Driver with a faster shell and a less eccentric arc to address Range Issues, but anything to give them artillery functionality (I was just suggesting a simple method for modifying an existing weapon so not much new has to be done). and Full Auto mainly because of Auto-fill, I'll update shortly Tiered Turrets are already part of DUST, but I would like to see downsides to using larger ones, in my current suggestion, you sacrifice transport capacity for higher stats...but lower tracking is also an option It'd also need a way better sight than the MD (because you know, MD has that terribad hip sight, and even worse actual sight) too. As for the desc, I did see that, I was just wondering for more of a elaboration. So faster shot. I'd like to see indirect fire tbh, but as you said, lots of work would need to be done. Maybe later on hopefully. Okay. Damn autofill messing up people -_- You misunderstand, I mean rather than tierciding them, putting back in tiered turrets. I forgot about the seat thing, but as we discussed before, that would only be temporary, until the devs can put in more things for HAV's to do as well as more importantly MAV's in which these new seats is supposed to make up for. There would still need to be a "Other" thing it could possibly make up for. Well...the MD needs a better way to sight as well...but a sight that's something like this...with practice it can be very very accurate. Wait...do you want Tiered Turrets or do you want to Tiericide Turrets? What exactly am I looking at above? Tiercide, what confused you? Ok, So, I'd be fine with a tracking penalty being added into the more powerful turrets just as it is in eve. (I was confused because I was saying that I'd be open to have tracking penalties associated with the larger turrets) The image linked is an artillery sight in a shooter that is very effective at being an artillery sight Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 163	Posted - 2015.01.18 16:59:00 - [119] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Update: even with the basics fully on, you can't fit a unskilled Maddy. fit is 2 armor hardeners, a 60mm and 120mm plate, and a heavy armor repairer (not the hull repairer). I just upped the fitting slightly, see if that changed anything...if not I'll look into armor mods efficiency vs shield mods more carefully Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 163	Posted - 2015.01.19 02:46:00 - [120] - Quote Updated My Numbers 1) Added in more skills, and how bonuses affect things 2) Added in almost all the old modules, and adjusted their stats to play with current values 2a) I'm assuming that Shield Boosters should be fixed by removing shield delay 3) Added in Vehicle Scale Detection 4) Proposed Adding EWAR and Detection Mods (Some of which are based on ideas from Lazer and Spker) 4) Updated Turrets, still working on them, Added in EMP Cannons to artillery (Flux Driver needs to happen) 4a) Changed Missile Launcher from being a Burst god to being a solid burst fire turret, with 4 different variants for choosing damage type. 4b) Changed Missile Launcher name to MLRS 4c) Added stats for Guided Missile Launchers. 5) Modified fitting and base stats of HAVs 5a) Started Rounding and normalizing values for HAV stats 6) Started working on LAV pages, same principles as the HAVs (Reduce Base Stats, increase fitting and slots, generate racial stats based on relative values of dropsuits). 7) Started working on Small Turrets, stats are based on relative DPS of Infantry Rifles (But still very early on). Things I'm working on next: Finishing Generating LAVs, Generating Dropships, Small Turrets, "Solid Slug" Blaster (could use ideas for names), then generating Infantry AV stats (following a lot of Breakin's stuff, but adjusting for my numbers) etc etc I'm sticking with keeping "Assault Turrets" for sake of completeness, I don't believe they'll be too powerful against infantry given adequate dispersion and heat control. (Considering lowering "assault turret" DPS or upping heat even more...because LOLScorch) Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 164	Posted - 2015.01.19 19:33:00 - [121] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Between 20-30% increade in TTK from chrome. AV TTK will remain the same but we shouldn't see anymoye two shot kills or instablaps on the AV side. Unless you're max skill and shooting at militia tanks or enforcers. Enforcers are intended to hit like a truck. They are also intended to pay for that power with fragility. Got annihilated by a forum scrublette in just 5 volleys from a Minmando, with the 6th already on the way by the time I died. How much was that? 7000 damage in literally 5 seconds. Of course, you think that's fair. 7802.04 base Damage with an Explosive Damage Type in 8.1225 seconds assuming they where in a proto minmando with dual complex damage mods (only counting the first 5 volleys)....and had absolutely perfect timing with their locks Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 164	Posted - 2015.01.21 04:19:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Hi everyone, can someone link/create "undebatable" prototype fits for both HAVs and Dropships. I need this for the next steps. Just for clarification, what do you mean by undebateable? The true meta, not some opinionated ideas that result in arguing. FOTM, PC fit, whatever you call it. The fit noone calls stupid. That fit. The ones that True linked are the Meta Fits (minor alterations exist depending on the specific user and weather or not they want small guns)...I'd hardly call them unbeatable, but they are the current meta all other slots are pilot preference (although armor plate and pg upgrade are the preference for solo users) Either: Gunnlogi Proto Large Gun 2x Extenders 1x Hardener or Gunnlogi Proto Large Gun 2x Hardener 1x Extender Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. I believe all these roles are support for front line soldiers.

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