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Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2574	Posted - 2014.12.17 07:48:00 - [181] - Quote Zeke Dunevent wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. This may be a stupid question but considering on that spreadsheet you give EVE equivalents of these tanks by comparing them to different classes of spaceships, are we ever going to see a Dust equivalent of a Titan class ship????? No, because that would be overpowered to infantry, and they'd want AV buffed to compensate. Essentially wanting to carry weapons that could deal good damage to an MCC. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 752	Posted - 2014.12.17 08:53:00 - [182] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I tested a Gunnlogi with an extender and 2 hardeners vs ADV missiles with no damage mods in a PC last night. The missile took off half the shield of the Gunnlogi. PRO missile with a damage would melt a lot more than that. Missiles don't need more before having to reload. Thank you for proving my point. Adding nearly double the capacity would allow you to melt both shield and armor with a single volley. Thus that bonus would be horrifically overpowered, and thus everyone would use it as the best Enforcer because it would be an iWin button. It's a terrible idea for a bonus, however you stated no one would use it, which is incorrect. People will use what works best, and in this case the Caldari Enforcer would work better than anything else. Use a shield booster instead of extender and boost after the initial volley. You end getting most of your hp back he and doesn't have his burst dps anymore to help him. Use a rail turret and if you don't overheat it you'll win. Double Hardened without extender gives you a little less than 5000shield HP. Assuming you get the booster off in time thats about 2000 more HP. SO lets say 7000 Shield eHP + 1500 armor HP. So lets say they're using a standard missile launcher at 415 damage a missile, 22 missiles, 0.15 interval. 9130 Damage. The Shields will obsorb 8400 of that damage so your armor is getting hit by the remaining 730 damage but experience 876, leaving you at 0 shield, 624 Armor. If you are not at 100% HP when that happens, You die. If they use a damage mod, you die. If they use a better launcher, you die. what? how are you calculating damage reduction? when i did the math i had one hardener at 40% the second hardener at 34.8% so ill round it up to 75% damage reduction. missiles at 415 direct damage reduced by 75% is 103.75. multiply by 12 missiles and you get 1245 damage. then you reduce it again by 15% because of missile damage profile, and youre only doing 1058.25 damage. you still will have 1592 shields left after the first volley, and you havent even touched the shield booster yet. without any modules at all. you effective shield HP against missiles is actually about 3118. the two hardeners put you around 16,306 eHP against missiles. and adding the booster pushes it further, to 28,304 eHP against missiles. ive never died to missiles with two hardeners on unless i had under 1k shields going into the fight.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 752	Posted - 2014.12.17 09:03:00 - [183] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Al the destroyer wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Along with some module rebalancing, I think the Marauders should get a 5/2 slot layout. Enforcers get a 4/3. Please won't make them have the same spot layout as std, there would be absolutely no fun or usefulness in that this would make buffing AV sharply a necessity. I was right when I said they were making HAVs variants rather than a three-step tier. This is better. I think they should have a different slot layout. A super tank should be just that super. I don't think we would need to buff AV at all. It makes no sense to have different tanks with the same slot layout. Make them cost more isk accordingly. AV should not be able to take one of these "super" tanks out easily it would take teamwork. Again IMO you should make these tanks special by giving them unique slot layouts. Otherwise the tanks we have are enough. teamwork for "one" tank. what happens when there's 6 of them? we dont have enough players per team for that. we could use team "bandwitdh" for vehicles to keep from having 6 marauders on the field at once. You're right. I guess it's impossible for the same 2-3 people in AV to switch targets after they've killed one tank. thats assuming alot. if those tanks are working together, then theyll be cycling each other out as one takes damage. you wont kill any of them. youll damage one until he backs up and is replaced by a fresh tank. meanwhile the tanks are still shooting at everyone ive seen this happen with ADS too
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16045	Posted - 2014.12.17 09:56:00 - [184] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: thats assuming alot. if those tanks are working together, then theyll be cycling each other out as one takes damage. you wont kill any of them. youll damage one until he backs up and is replaced by a fresh tank. meanwhile the tanks are still shooting at everyone ive seen this happen with ADS too But then that's not a matter of OP vehicle its team work in the same way infantry work to keep one another alive, secure points, and achieve a goal. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 752	Posted - 2014.12.17 11:00:00 - [185] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: thats assuming alot. if those tanks are working together, then theyll be cycling each other out as one takes damage. you wont kill any of them. youll damage one until he backs up and is replaced by a fresh tank. meanwhile the tanks are still shooting at everyone ive seen this happen with ADS too But then that's not a matter of OP vehicle its team work in the same way infantry work to keep one another alive, secure points, and achieve a goal. its a matter of theres only 16 people per team and if 16 of them must switch to av to fight 6 guys in tanks, then it leaves 10 guys on the tanks team free to do whatever they like its clone efficiency. 6 guys in tanks forcing 16 av to try and kill them. not saying 16 guys cant kill 6 tanks without a problem, but when have you ever seen 16 guys running av? on top of that 10 assaults would have no trouble dealing with a team of av guys. im not saying tanks are OP. im saying that when theres a limited number of slots per team available clone for clone... 16 vs 6 is imbalanced. but then we can always say, well then those 16 av guys should get 6 tanks to counter them. now we have small as a closet maps with 12 tanks on them with 20 guys left over wondering why scotty the matchmaker screwed them all so hard. every scenario must be looked at. just because it doesnt happen often does not mean you can skip over it when you design and balance the game. no map in dust can reasonably support 12 tanks. the maps are just too small and poorly designed for vehicle use. this is another area that should be noted to the devs.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 753	Posted - 2014.12.17 11:25:00 - [186] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: I have a question. What kind of missile bonus should a caldari enforcer get? Range? Velocity? It shouldn't get extra missiles or damage I think, but what kind of bonus would be useful? decreased dispersion for better accuracy at range while rapid firing
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 753	Posted - 2014.12.17 11:39:00 - [187] - Quote just watched a guy in a gunnlogi with double hardeners (maybe triple) take down three madrugars while being focused fired on. his shields didnt move some one mentioned eHP stacking makes any and all passive tanks inferior. only way i see passive tanking working is if passive tanks are built around having huge raw HP pools to outlast hardener durations. id make passive tanks have huge HP pools, with slow regen make active tanks with low HP pools with high resistances. short module durations and high regen. so basically passive tanks would be good in 1v1 fights and can stay on field longer, while active tanks would be good in larger tank battles but shorter time on field.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 753	Posted - 2014.12.17 12:08:00 - [188] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Increasing Main stack +1 like the other "side grades" but ensure that that slot is not going to be fitted with an eHP module or if a fitting modules one that does not provide too potent benefits due to lower CPU and PG allotment. Both Shield and armour tankers were benefit from this. Shield HAV will have access to damage modules in the Low Slots (where they always should have been as passive modules) as well as torque, fitting, ammo, etc. Additionally can make use of their High Slots for small Shield tanking and Heat Sinks, Tracking Computers, prop modules, etc. In the same way the Vayu has access to 3/6 modules being weapons modifiers the shield HAV can do the same thing. Shields 2940 Armour 1120 264.4 Light Shield Extender Energized Shield Ward Field Damage Control or Light Shield extender Tracking Computer Thorough-put Stabilization Field Power Diagnostics System 5618.59 eHP on this hull. Alright forgive me if I'm over simplifying/misunderstanding this, but basically you're saying that the Enforcer would not have a significant amount of PG/CPU increase (assuming properly balancing resources in Armor/Shields first). Utility modules would be significantly cheaper than HP, so that 4th slot would be filled with utility and not HP because there isn't enough additional PG/CPU to actually fill it with an HP module. So in short you have less resources overall per slot, forcing a lower grade of your 3 primary defensive modules, making the HAV less defensive oriented, but allowing enough slots for additional utility since utility mods are cheaper to fit? If that's what you're getting at, its an interesting line of thought, though I think it might be very tricky to properly balance resources to achieve that without allowing for abuse. thats easy to balance. if the modules directly effects HP or resists the fitting costs will be alot higher. anything else gets super cheap fitting costs. an example: 5/3 high/low cpu = 250 pg = 500 cpu/pg extender costs 50/150- high slot scanner costs 50/25 - high slot tracking computer 15/25 - high slot heat sink 20/25 - high slot overdrive 30/50 - low slot damage mod 75/50 - low slot ammo cache 0/0 - low slot 3 extenders cost 150/450 so you have 100 cpu and 50 pg left with 2 high slots and 3 low slots left. obviously you need to dump an extender if you want to use the other 5 slots on the tank, or fill whats left will cheap fitting mods. you could fill your 2 leftover high slots with a scanner and tracking computer and it'd leave you with 35 cpu and 0 pg. and since the ammo cache cost 0 pg you could put it on too. what you cant do is fit 5 extenders lol. if you added fitting mods then maybe you could get 3 extenders on with enough pg for some other stuff, but youre losing slots to make it work. the other way could fit the same tank would be to go for only two extenders, leaving you 150 cpu and 200 pg. now you can fit the scanner, tracking computer, and heat sink in you 3 left over high slots, and the damage mod, overdrive, and ammo cache in your lows. less HP overall but a more useful and complete vehicle. the point is to make HP mods too resource intensive to fit. so if you did see a vehicle with high HP you'd know right away its lacking all kinds of things most likely
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 254	Posted - 2014.12.17 13:33:00 - [189] - Quote 1. The titles given to the HAVs, will they give an idea as to what we should expect? 1a. Cruiser - Militia HAV - Lowest slot layout 1b. Battlecruiser - Basic HAV - Increased slot layout, better HP 1c. Battleship - Marauders - Increased slot layout, best HP 1d. Destroyer - Enforcers - In EVE they have less slots than a cruiser but more missile/turret hardpoints, does this mean it possible may have 2 main turrets? but lower HP
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4023	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:44:00 - [190] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: what? how are you calculating damage reduction? You misunderstand, I was responding to a previous suggestion that Caldari Enforcer should get +2 to missile magazine capacity/lvl which would increase the incoming damage from 12 missiles to 22. I think our damage resist calcs are the same, I was just using a considerably higher incoming damage due to the +10 to magazine size. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4023	Posted - 2014.12.17 15:53:00 - [191] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Dergle wrote: There needs to be a vehicle for taking out infantry, otherwise there is no real point for vehicles. We had them, but we got punished for having good aim. Thus, the blaster was nerfed. Blame infantry Large Turrets should never be anti-infantry. Small turrets should be anti infantry. Large Turrets to kill large thing, Small Turrets to kill small things. I will agree that small Blasters need some love though. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
DarthJT5 12th Shadow Legion 152	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:00:00 - [192] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Dergle wrote: There needs to be a vehicle for taking out infantry, otherwise there is no real point for vehicles. We had them, but we got punished for having good aim. Thus, the blaster was nerfed. Blame infantry Large Turrets should never be anti-infantry. Small turrets should be anti infantry. Large Turrets to kill large thing, Small Turrets to kill small things. I will agree that small Blasters need some love though. While I agree, why are small rails considered AV then? Why are small missiles a hybrid of av and ai? In fact, the only small turret that is only for killing small things is the blaster..... Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Up and coming Python pilot. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4023	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:14:00 - [193] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Dergle wrote: There needs to be a vehicle for taking out infantry, otherwise there is no real point for vehicles. We had them, but we got punished for having good aim. Thus, the blaster was nerfed. Blame infantry Large Turrets should never be anti-infantry. Small turrets should be anti infantry. Large Turrets to kill large thing, Small Turrets to kill small things. I will agree that small Blasters need some love though. While I agree, why are small rails considered AV then? Why are small missiles a hybrid of av and ai? In fact, the only small turret that is only for killing small things is the blaster..... Dude Small Rails wreck infantry with their damage levels and fire rate. They are the closest to AV of the small turrets, but I still consider them Anti-Personnel. All turrets are a hybrid of AV and AP, its just a matter of scale. You can use Large Turrets to kill infantry, just not very efficiently, just like you can use small turrets to kill vehicles, but not nearly as efficiently. It's kind of like the Plasma Cannon, its an AV weapon that can be used for anti-infantry, but it's difficult to do. Same with a Forge Gun, it's an AV weapon but can be used to kill infantry given the right circumstances. I'd probably rate them as such Anti-Vehicle <-------------> Anti-Personnel Large Railgun \| Large Missiles \| Large Blaster \| Small Rails \| Small Missiles \| Small Blaster Large Rail/Missiles is debatable since missiles ** the out of many vehicles, but I'd consider them a bit easier to get Infantry kills with. But again I could see those reversed. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 254	Posted - 2014.12.17 16:20:00 - [194] - Quote 1. Small turrets do not have the range to be anti infantry let alone if infantry render at longer distances 2. Top small turret is not independent from the large turret ie if large turret moves small moves with it 3. Zoom is poor 4. Bottom turret is pretty bad in general 5. Blasters are worse than a HMG and require more luck on getting a kill than aim - Dot was perfectly fine, its red you hit 6. Large blaster in chrome and after uprising was AV aswell as AI and worked well with the correct modules
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2576	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:50:00 - [195] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: just watched a guy in a gunnlogi with double hardeners (maybe triple) take down three madrugars while being focused fired on. his shields didnt move some one mentioned eHP stacking makes any and all passive tanks inferior. only way i see passive tanking working is if passive tanks are built around having huge raw HP pools to outlast hardener durations. id make passive tanks have huge HP pools, with slow regen make active tanks with low HP pools with high resistances. short module durations and high regen. so basically passive tanks would be good in 1v1 fights and can stay on field longer, while active tanks would be good in larger tank battles but shorter time on field. Not possible I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
The-Errorist 929	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:56:00 - [196] - Quote {Part 1/2} [Primary Roles] LAV/DS- Recon / Shuttle LLAV- Infantry Support MAV- Armored Troop Transport HAV- Anti-Vehicle [Insallation Turrets] Anti-vehicle [Large Turrets] Anti-vehicle [Small Turrets] Anti-infantry [Already here, but needs improvement] Vehicles that the support infantry by scanning; need more active scanners. Vehicles that support support/shuttle by fitting mCRUs; need more mCRUs. ADS that serves as an anti-infantry and anti-role; pythons need to be a bit better at being AV (missile variants) and incubi need to be a bit better at being AI (blaster issues). Other modules that need to be added: Power diagnostic systems - increase PG while boosting decreasing shield recharge delay Vehicle reactive plates Passive hardeners Nanofiber plating - reduces armor HP for extra mobility Damage controll units - increase damage resistance when active Torque Modules Infantry and vehicle remote repair modules Infantry and vehicle resuply modules [Whats missing] LLAVs that support infantry by repairing and supplying ammo. MAVs. Support HAVs. Glass cannon HAV for taking out other vehicles quicker. Heavier HAVs for surviving long enough to take out more vehicles. Without support vehicles/modules, there not much of a reason for there to be regular HAVs or any other anti-vehicle roles except for taking out assault dropships. More vehicle turret upgrade modules for high and low slots: Heat Sinks Passive reload speed modules Turret rotation modules Torque Modules RoF modules Tweaks to basic vehicles: Baloch/Methana/Gorgon/Grimsnes/Soma/Madrugar: Base armor repair rate: 25 hp/s Onikuma/Saga/Viper/Myron/Sica/Gunnlogi: Base armor repair rate: 15 hp/s For new specializations: True Adamance wrote: ... - No Hull should suffer arbitrary tracking penalties that are not part of the turrets profile unless it is a class/hull wide modifier - An Enforcer should have moderate capacity to turn in place regardless of racial profile. All Anti Tank Vehicles would share this design feature regardless of who was designing it. Also Rattati, even if the bonus in the spreadsheet was intended to fix inherent weakness, why put a weakness for a role that is countered by that role's skill bonus? It seams pointless. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
The-Errorist 929	Posted - 2014.12.17 17:56:00 - [197] - Quote {Part 2/2} Add the Black Ops HAV as the support HAV. Short description: Heavily armored infantry, vehicle, and installation support platform. -25% turret damage (flat) -x% PG/CPU of fitting active scanners and vehicle remote repairers per level +1 built-in mCRU Less total PG/CPU compared to basic tanks Kubera (Gallente): x% bonus towards __ for remote vehicle armor repair modules per level. Changed base stats compared to basic: Scan profile: 35db to hide from STD scanners Base armor repair rate: -20% (20 hp/s) Base shield recharge rate: -20% (76.8 hp/s) Base price: 130,000 ISK Chakram (Caldari): x% bonus towards __ for remote vehicle shield repair modules per level. Changed base stats compared to basic: Scan profile: 35db to hide from STD scanners Base armor repair rate: -20% (12 hp/s) Base shield recharge rate: -20% (134.4 hp/s) Base price: 130,000 ISK Marauder HAVs: +2% to base shield and armor HP -x% penalaty to turret rotation speed (flat) -x% penalaty torque (flat) Surya (Gallente): 1% increase armor damage resistance and 2% increase in armor recharge rate per level Base armor repair rate: +20% (30 hp/s) Base price: 130,000 ISK Sagaris (Caldari): 1% increase in shield damage resistance and 2% increase in shield recharge rate per level Base price: 130,000 ISK Enforcer HAVs: +2% increased turret damage & +x% increase in turret rotation speed smaller -x% penalaty torque than Marauders (flat) Faster forward speed and acceleration Less total PG/CPU compared to basic tanks Vayu (Gallente): Damage and fitting bonus to blasters and railguns Base armor repair rate: -20% (20 hp/s) Base shield recharge rate: -20% (76.8 hp/s) Base price: 130,000 ISK Falchion (Caldari): Damage and fitting bonus to missiles and railguns Base armor repair rate: -20% (12 hp/s) Base shield recharge rate: -20% (134.4 hp/s) Base price: 130,000 ISK [Other good ideas]: The Gallente tank has 76.9% of it's total HP, armor which is pretty good since it's supposed to armor tank. If you look at the Gunnlogi, it has 63.9% of it's total HP as shields which is pretty rediculous since caldari vehicles should be almsot exclusively shield tanking; making all caldari vehicles have at least 80% of their HP as shields would remedy this (3320 shields 830 armor). If racial placeholder vehicles get added later on, Minmatar vehicles should have around 50% of their HP as shields, and Amarr vehicles should have at least 80% of their HP as armor. Also to make Caldari tanks have a harder time at fitting armor modules and help Gallente tanks fit armor, all shield modules should cost 1 less PG and 4 to 5 more CPU, armor hardeners should cost around 30 less CPU and 7 more PG, and armor plates should cost around 20 less CPU and 5 more PG. Cat Merc wrote: I think the generalist tanks should have more slots, while the specialized tanks get fewer. ... I agree with that tanks don't have enough slots; basic tanks should have a 4/2 (Caldari) and 2/4 (Gallente) layout and I think it would be best to give specialized tanks less PG/CPU and a bonus to fitting stuff for their specialization instead of how an ADS has less slots than a basic DS. Also increasing the slot layout would mostly benefit Gallente tanks which are currently underpowered. Breakin Stuff wrote: ... You could allow HAVs to disable null cannons temporarily ... This would be cool and add to why would a team want a tank in the 1st place. If that can't be done, let turret installations able to damage MCC. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 285	Posted - 2014.12.17 19:16:00 - [198] - Quote An idea i have, that could make ds and lavs more effective could be to remove small turret slots on all havs, and make them more powerful, especially against vehicles. Something like larger mags with more dps and rof. Kind of like the concept video in dust where the LAV rollsvup and insta pops a careless tank This could make the turret on the lavs actually viable, and would give people more reason to fit guns onto their ads Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 19:51:00 - [199] - Quote Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: An idea i have, that could make ds and lavs more effective could be to remove small turret slots on all havs, and make them more powerful, especially against vehicles. Something like larger mags with more dps and rof. Kind of like the concept video in dust where the LAV rollsvup and insta pops a careless tank This could make the turret on the lavs actually viable, and would give people more reason to fit guns onto their ads You mean Medium Turrets? Yeah kind of want those too but there is no reason to remove the Small Turrets from HAV. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 285	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:10:00 - [200] - Quote i guess? i'm not a tanker true, you know this, but it doesnt help that we never hear about things like "medium turrets" as an infantryman we will need to figure out how to balance out av around the idea of said new tanks Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships

Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1322	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:11:00 - [201] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. Are we getting a repec? Please, it's only fair. When you introduced new suits in 1.8 you gave everyone a respec and since the whole system is being reworked I demand a FREE respec. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 285	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:15:00 - [202] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. which tiger tank are you referencing here rattati the Porsche tiger,the tiger H1, the kingtiger(P) or the kingtiger(H) Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:23:00 - [203] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. The titles given to the HAVs, will they give an idea as to what we should expect? 1a. Cruiser - Militia HAV - Lowest slot layout 1b. Battlecruiser - Basic HAV - Increased slot layout, better HP 1c. Battleship - Marauders - Increased slot layout, best HP 1d. Destroyer - Enforcers - In EVE they have less slots than a cruiser but more missile/turret hardpoints, does this mean it possible may have 2 main turrets? but lower HP They are not the best example of what I think Rattati means....mainly because I don't think he's an EVE player.....but then again I might be wrong. I could be something more akin to...... MLT and Standard HAV - Cruiser ( smaller more ubiquitous hulls) Examples - Omen, Moa, Stabber, Vexor Marauder HAV - Combat Battle Cruiser (Typically higher eHP hulls with either passive resistances or rep bonuses) Examples- Prophecy, Drake, Brutix, Cyclone Enforcer HAV- Attack Battle Cruiser ( lower eHP but can fit Battleship Sized Turrets) Examples - Oracle, Talos, Naga, Typhoon *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:26:00 - [204] - Quote Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. which tiger tank are you referencing here rattati the Porsche tiger,the tiger H1, the kingtiger(P) or the kingtiger(H) Assuming that I've been the only one on this forum to reference the Tiger Tank in the last couple of weeks...... The PzKpfw VI Ausf. H. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Dimitri Rascolovitch Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 285	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:42:00 - [205] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. which tiger tank are you referencing here rattati the Porsche tiger,the tiger H1, the kingtiger(P) or the kingtiger(H) Assuming that I've been the only one on this forum to reference the Tiger Tank in the last couple of weeks...... The PzKpfw VI Ausf. H. true open up the spreadsheet, rattati is referencing a tiger tank in it when mentioning the new havs Bring back the Marauders, Enforcers, Logistic, and Scout LAVS and Dropships
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1322	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:44:00 - [206] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. CCP, can you make it so when we point to a Sagaris, it says PRO instead of UHAV or Sagaris. It was my dream since I started playing two years ago. My dream to drive a Beast mode Sgaris with 7000+ shields that could tank hits from 5 guys. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16051	Posted - 2014.12.17 20:53:00 - [207] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We have wanted to bring back variety for the Vehicle Users of DUST 514 for some time now. I will be honest and admit that I thought it would be easier. After considerable groundwork, I see that there is no easy way to do this and we have to refactor the Enforcers and Marauders completely, with new skills and bonuses where I was hoping to quickly review the slots, eHP and fitting capacity and ship them. So kind of good news and bad news. All that said and done, I am sharing an incredibly preliminary spreadsheet on how I see this working. In short The Enforcers and Marauders are strictly side-grades and meant to create an interesting vehicle vs vehicle paper/rock/scissors gameplay. Tank Destroyers - Enforcers - DHAVs Falchion - slow to react, quick to aim, long range platforms with very low ehp - Main Counter to Marauder - insta pops Vayu Vayu - flanking brawlers that circle to avoid tracking while blasting - Main counter to Falchion, has a fighting chance against Marauder Ultra Heavy Tanks (Super) - Marauders - UHAVs Surya - Armor and rep, low mobility, good turret tracking, stand and deliver Sagaris - Shield and regen, ok mobility, bad turret tracking, aim through maneuvering and flanking Main Battle Tank - HAV Marauder - Same (with tweaks) Gunnlogi - Same (with tweaks) I am not a tanker, so will rely on the Vehicle Community to bring everything they have to the table. CPM is also crowdsourcing something so should get interesting. Here is the spreadsheet, you are seeing this early an unpolished, probably with some errors. CCP, can you make it so when we point to a Sagaris, it says PRO instead of UHAV or Sagaris. It was my dream since I started playing two years ago. My dream to drive a Beast mode Sgaris with 7000+ shields that could tank hits from 5 guys. You do remember though that that kind of Sagaris was PASSIVE Tanked and only had a rep rate of 50-60 Shields per second..... and maybe only 20-30% passive resistances. *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4029	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:11:00 - [208] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Are we getting a repec? Please, it's only fair. When you introduced new suits in 1.8 you gave everyone a respec and since the whole system is being reworked I demand a FREE respec. Um....why? Any specialty HAVs would be built off of existing skills, meaning that if you wanted to spec into them, you would just level up skills that require the ones you already have trained as a prereq. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1322	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:18:00 - [209] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Some constructive Critiscm of the Tank fitting philopshy as per your spreadsheet. For the Falchion: - Slow Turn Speed - Low HP - Same slots - Fast Turret tracking -Slow Forward Speed This is pretty much the epitome of the Redline RailTank. Without the HP buffer to at least survive an infantry ambush, or the speed to get away through an ambush, these guys will only be safe within the redline, trying to snipe tanks and other infantry then roll backwards. Which double and triple modded tanks already do, yet the slow turret tracking speed helps to counter this somewhat. It ougt to more closley follow in the Vayu below. Maurader - Normal Turn Speed - Massive HP - Same slots - Slow turret tracking - Normal Forward speed This is a good philosophy for a hard hitting tank, makes it tough to engage head on but gives other faster tanks a fighting chance. Vayu - Fast turn Speed - Low HP - Same slots - Slow Turret Tracking - Fast Forward SpeedSide grade to MBT This is more what i envision a tank destroyer to be. Very fast, low hp but hit and run Maruader - Slow turn speed - Massive HP - Same slots - Normal Turret tracking - Normal Forward speed I envision this pretty much aas a beefier maddy. Well I wouldn't want slow tracking to a point where you cannot even tack a heavy running by in front of you but it should be at most 15% slower. Also, turret proficiency need to start working. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1322	Posted - 2014.12.17 21:21:00 - [210] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Are we getting a repec? Please, it's only fair. When you introduced new suits in 1.8 you gave everyone a respec and since the whole system is being reworked I demand a FREE respec. Um....why? Any specialty HAVs would be built off of existing skills, meaning that if you wanted to spec into them, you would just level up skills that require the ones you already have trained as a prereq. I'm pretty sure if CCP added in another special medium frame, special light frame and a special heavy frame, people would scream respec. Especially discussing the fact that this "build on" is going to potentially cost millions and millions of sp. I understand if it was minor fixes tweaks ect, but come on, they are releasing new variants/ skill books. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris



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