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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1180
   |
Posted - 2014.10.17 15:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay:
CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
Fixing EWAR
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1166
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
too short.. itll be like a 2 second delay i bet
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1180
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? too short.. itll be like a 2 second delay i bet
Well it IS currently 0.33 seconds.
This thread is for allowing more than 4-5 scout people in a scout thread to weigh in on the cloak delay. I will keep my opinion to myself because I made the thread asking the question.
Fixing EWAR
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17326
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1729
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. |
PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
2091
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 16:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Think its good. People wil still complai but meh. One fluid motion sounds pretty cool to test. Ivenoticed that, i tested this, when your
sprinting ad you decloa
k and fire, theres barley any delay. When your walking there is more delay. So well see how it works.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Hi guys several charge swipes later bye guys; I impress IJR!
Wannabe LeafinDaWind/Ghost
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1181
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
For context, it is literally a blink of the eye.
Quote:
The average duration for a single blink of a human eye is 0.1 to 0.4 seconds, or 100 to 400 milliseconds, according to the Harvard Database of Useful Biological Numbers.
Now factor in lag/netcode/framerate. I just wanted to take issue with the 0.33s being a long period of time.
Fixing EWAR
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Lloyd Orfay
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
71
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Posted - 2014.10.17 16:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
0.33 seconds will only make you wait longer to get shot in the back by an enemy you can't fight before the match is over. |
Gareth Verenar
Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lloyd Orfay wrote:0.33 seconds will only make you wait longer to get shot in the back by an enemy you can't fight before the match is over.
But that's just Scouts working as intended. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17331
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots re really taken beyond the 450 meter range or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
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Joel II X
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3858
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay.
Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless. |
Dreis Shadowweaver
THE HANDS OF DEATH
RUST415
400
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 17:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
I've only ever known 1.8...
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
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Dreis Shadowweaver
THE HANDS OF DEATH
RUST415
401
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
I hope that there will be a sufficiently noticeable delay after decloaking before you can fire; I was a supporter of having to manually deactivate the cloak before you can fire. I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
I've only ever known 1.8...
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17332
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7
Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
|
Dreis Shadowweaver
THE HANDS OF DEATH
RUST415
401
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 17:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc.
Good point, it makes me believe that the delay should be even longer.
Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel
I've only ever known 1.8...
Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
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Cody Sietz
Evzones
Public.Disorder.
4069
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 17:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7
Unless your using a HMG/CR/RR.
Those things melt through armour.
Gotta love those ballerina heavies ;)
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1184
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 17:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless.
So unless you can fire in the blink of an eye after decloaking the cloak is useless. Is that your position?
But before you said that if you can't scan while cloaked the cloak is useless, and before that you said if there was no dampening bonus that the cloak is useless....
So which is it?
Fixing EWAR
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4585
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Posted - 2014.10.17 17:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds.
0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1184
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 18:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds. 0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak.
Since when did the cloak not make you difficult/impossible to see? Or are you suggesting I cut the life of my TV in half by cranking up the brightness/contrast to ridiculously out-of-spec settings?
Fixing EWAR
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
189
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Posted - 2014.10.17 18:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
Ya. A third of a second is a long time? So what? A third of a second doesn't mean anything if you can remain unseen while seeing everyone on your radar (save maybe a few other scouts)
The point of the cloak is to infiltrate enemy lines, and then decloak when in safety. If the cloak was used properly then you could easily be in a safe location to decloak and a third of a second would mean JACK CRAP.
NOT FOR RUNNING STRAIGHT UP TO PEOPLE AND SHOOT THEM WHILE YOU STILL APPEAR CLOAKED.
Go do your job scouts.
Go cap those points.
Go keep the enemy team scanned.
Leave the Assaulting to the Real Warriors.
The sad part about cloaks: They are unnecessary for if you have great situational awareness ( Passive Wall-hacks) and Dampeners then you can easily find an opportune moment to sneak in.
In fact I am more likely to kill cloaked scouts than ones that are simply just wearing dampeners because the cloaked ones are a lot more BRAZEN with their attacks.
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS--NUFF SED
YOU SHALL NOT CATCH ME FOR I AM THE GINGERBREAD FATMAN
-Romulus H3X
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
191
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Posted - 2014.10.17 18:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc.
EVEN MORE OF A REASON WHY A CLOAKED SCOUT SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SHOOT NEARLY INSTANTANEOUSLY WITH THOSE SO CALLED 'SIngle-shot in the foot' DEATH-MACHINES, RIGHT OUT OF THEIR CLOAKS.
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS--NUFF SED
YOU SHALL NOT CATCH ME FOR I AM THE GINGERBREAD FATMAN
-Romulus H3X
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
60
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Posted - 2014.10.17 18:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Joel II X wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless. So unless you can fire in the blink of an eye after decloaking the cloak is useless. Is that your position? But before you said that if you can't scan while cloaked the cloak is useless, and before that you said if there was no dampening bonus that the cloak is useless.... So which is it?
Allow me to translate please: If the cloak isnt overpowered by making you invisible, unscannable, and trivial to deliver 1 shot weapon payloads at point blank range then its useless.
In other words, he has to protect his crutch.
P.S. this guy also wants to buff cloak length in another thread. Its just not good enough as it is!
What a joke.
Cloak+damps+shotgun is THE most powerful thing in the game right now. Right above heavy/logi blobs (but hey at least this takes teamwork) and well driven vehicles. People actually defend this ****. |
Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1184
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 19:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
I didn't realize this when I orignally quoted you, but Romulus' post made me re-read it.
Why in the world is it ok to have a cloak on in CQC?
No one ever answers this question and it is an important one.
I thought cloaks were for open-field positioning, not surprise sex in CQC, that's what dampeners are for.
I said I wouldn't post my opinion in the OP, but here we go.
If cloaks are meant to allow scouts to traverse open areas without getting insta-gibbed, then a 3-4 second delay should be fine.
If cloaks were meant for surprise sex on defenseless people, well then working as intended. I just didn't think risk-free* combat was part of the design.
* It is risk free versus everything but a supertanked assault who might turn around before your second shot, although not likely, and sentinel, but thats what wallhacks and remotes are for. Works for me all of the time.
Fixing EWAR
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
2092
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 19:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
I only use cloak in close maps in PC, were for me, its so chaotic and everyone everywhere the second your seen your dead, which
is how it should be. But whether i have cloak or not i die sometimes even faster. So now i only use it on open maps OR on CQC maps
i stick to outside points. I mainly use cloak for the sound reduction. But i miss old school scouting.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Hi guys several charge swipes later bye guys; I impress IJR!
Wannabe LeafinDaWind/Ghost
|
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
123
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Posted - 2014.10.17 20:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
I don't use a cloak on my scout so I think it is a waste of time they still have more combat ability than an assault and therefor more offensive capability; They will remain this way until they can be balanced apart from assaults (sidearms). This will however make it impossible to get the jump on other scouts and make it a little harder to kill everyone else as there is a very small increase to the chance of being detected. Of course I think the dynamic between scouts will be cool however it will most likely increase the don't nerf me bro mentality of the player base.
This will also probably just cause more scouts to go shotgun and CR because it reduces the viability of side arms.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
131
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Posted - 2014.10.17 20:10:00 -
[26] - Quote
I don't use a cloak on my scout so I think it is a waste of time they still have more combat ability than an assault and therefor more offensive capability; They will remain this way until they can be balanced apart from assaults (sidearms). This will however make it impossible to get the jump on other scouts and make it a little harder to kill everyone else as there is a very small increase to the chance of being detected. Of course I think the dynamic between scouts will be cool however it will most likely increase the don't nerf me bro mentality of the player base(They just nerfed us bro).
This will also probably just cause more scouts to go shotgun and CR because it reduces the viability of side arms.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Pure Evil.
Capital Punishment.
2092
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 21:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Casual bump.
PSN Sil4ntChaozz
Hi guys several charge swipes later bye guys; I impress IJR!
Wannabe LeafinDaWind/Ghost
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4599
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Posted - 2014.10.18 00:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds. 0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak. Since when did the cloak not make you difficult/impossible to see? Or are you suggesting I cut the life of my TV in half by cranking up the brightness/contrast to ridiculously out-of-spec settings?
Maybe it is because I have an eye for detail, but I have never had any trouble seeing cloaked Scouts, and I have done nothing to alter the color balance on my TV. (I paid a tech $75 to setup the color balance just right, so I am not going to touch it.) I can usually even pick out the shimmer (like looking through hot air) when they are standing still.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1188
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Posted - 2014.10.18 00:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds. 0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak. Since when did the cloak not make you difficult/impossible to see? Or are you suggesting I cut the life of my TV in half by cranking up the brightness/contrast to ridiculously out-of-spec settings? Maybe it is because I have an eye for detail, but I have never had any trouble seeing cloaked Scouts, and I have done nothing to alter the color balance on my TV. (I paid a tech $75 to setup the color balance just right, so I am not going to touch it.) I can usually even pick out the shimmer (like looking through hot air) when they are standing still.
That is actually quite exceptional then. I am also happy to hear of more people doing the isf tech stuff, it makes me happy.
I actually grabed an older 1080p monitor I had lying around and hooked it up to a spare PS3, and with some adjust ments to contrast (way too high) and brightness (also too high) I can see scouts like chritmas lights indoors/low-light, but now outdoors I can't see them because the background blooms.
If I adjust for seeing them outside, I cannot see them inside.
My properly calibrate main TV though has exceptional detail and the effect isn't very noticable at all in a lot of situations. Judge made an awesome video on the matter that you should check out. It is also quite incontrovertable proof that the "use your eyes" and "git gud" arguments are B.S.
Fixing EWAR
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Zindorak
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
1112
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Posted - 2014.10.18 01:09:00 -
[30] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
It's fine
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Gk0 Scout yay :)
Pls fix SCR CCP
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3374
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Posted - 2014.10.18 01:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
http://youtu.be/YiGNXFJ2AXM?t=12m3s
Seems legit
As you can see I didn't even have the opportunity to stop sprinting let alone start firing at his 400+ ehp suit. In PC's like that I get wrecked because I find it very difficult to deal w/ scouts that can drop my tanked out suits in 1 shot and I don't have the opportunity to see them coming nor react but when I have at least a little bit of distance vs a heavy and go up against other assaults and assault scouts I do perfectly fine.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
8853
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Posted - 2014.10.18 02:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? too short.. itll be like a 2 second delay i bet Well it IS currently 0.33 seconds. This thread is for allowing more than 4-5 scout people in a scout thread to weigh in on the cloak delay. I will keep my opinion to myself because I made the thread asking the question.
I take exception to your insinuation. If you have followed any of the hotfixes, we have been querying the role experts (with mixed results) to get to a balanced proposal, using their experience and our data. Those proposals are then discussed in the Features and Ideas forums. This is no exception.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
253
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Posted - 2014.10.18 02:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots are rarely taken beyond the 450 meter range prenerf or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths.
All of this may be true -- but even with high situational awareness scouts are problematic.
"hmm, right about now a scout should be rushing me"
*turns around to see a scout 25 meters out rushing*
"Thought so."
*Unloads with (insert weapon here)*
*Scout stops moving forward and strafes back and forth within 2 steps left and right of original position moving through the stream of bullets multiple times while firing*
*Scout takes 0 damage, 1k+ hp suit dies.*
"Thought so..."
I mean -- it's interesting that CCP doesn't want scouts shotgunning or knifing while still decloaking. I cannot comment on whether the mechanics are fine now or not because it's never been an issue for me. On the occasion that I don't I never see it coming and certainly don't complain -- good on the scout for sneaking up on me/us. It's entirely an issue of when you catch said cloaked scout and are unable to shoot him due to bullets not assigning damage..well that's where we get stuck with the slaying concept. |
CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2013
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Posted - 2014.10.18 02:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? too short.. itll be like a 2 second delay i bet Well it IS currently 0.33 seconds. This thread is for allowing more than 4-5 scout people in a scout thread to weigh in on the cloak delay. I will keep my opinion to myself because I made the thread asking the question. I take exception to your insinuation. If you have followed any of the hotfixes, we have been querying the role experts (with mixed results) to get to a balanced proposal, using their experience and our data. Those proposals are then discussed in the Features and Ideas forums. This is no exception.
Make cloaked delay 60 seconds
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1188
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 02:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:
All of this may be true -- but even with high situational awareness scouts are problematic.
"hmm, right about now a scout should be rushing me"
*turns around to see a scout 25 meters out rushing*
"Thought so."
*Unloads with (insert weapon here)*
*Scout stops moving forward and strafes back and forth within 2 steps left and right of original position moving through the stream of bullets multiple times while firing*
*Scout takes 0 damage, 1k+ hp suit dies.*
"Thought so..."
I mean -- it's interesting that CCP doesn't want scouts shotgunning or knifing while still decloaking. I cannot comment on whether the mechanics are fine now or not because it's never been an issue for me. On the occasion that I don't I never see it coming and certainly don't complain -- good on the scout for sneaking up on me/us. It's entirely an issue of when you catch said cloaked scout and are unable to shoot him due to bullets not assigning damage..well that's where we get stuck with the slaying concept.
I have found this matrix style bullet dancing to be the case for me as well, while using the AScR. I would have thought a good amount would still hit due to the really high dispersion rate of the rifle, but apparently not. That is for a different thread though. I just merely wanted other peoples opinions on something I saw being discussed elsewhere.
CCP Rattati wrote:
I take exception to your insinuation. If you have followed any of the hotfixes, we have been querying the role experts (with mixed results) to get to a balanced proposal, using their experience and our data. Those proposals are then discussed in the Features and Ideas forums. This is no exception.
Well I apologize for insinuating that you were only talking to the scouts. Based upon my prior experience of merely suggesting changes to scouts and the insane amount of trolling/harassment received, I may be a little touchy, but that's on me. (seriously about ten times worse than when I was talking about vehicles)
I jumped to the conclusion based upon the information I had at hand and the lack of feedback on any scout changes., still wrong without directly contacting you.
Fixing EWAR
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Mike Ox Bigger
Extremely Wicked
290
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 02:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots are rarely taken beyond the 450 meter range prenerf or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths.
Nah it's ewar being too strong combined with the ability to have as much hp as the assault. They know where you are and you can't pick them up on a passive scan for ****. Scanners are in a terrible place so you can't battle them with that either. You can only fight scout with another scout and what usually happens is both sides just end up killing each others non-scout players. When you nerfed the burst HMG everyone shrugged and turned into a scout making matters even worse. |
Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1216
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 03:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame.
its still too fast for the decloak to OHK SG scouts the TTK is probably 1 second total
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]]
[[Level 1 Forum Warrior]]
[[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1216
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 03:03:00 -
[38] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots are rarely taken beyond the 450 meter range prenerf or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths. All of this may be true -- but even with high situational awareness scouts are problematic. "hmm, right about now a scout should be rushing me" *turns around to see a scout 25 meters out rushing* "Thought so." *Unloads with (insert weapon here)* *Scout stops moving forward and strafes back and forth within 2 steps left and right of original position moving through the stream of bullets multiple times while firing* *Scout takes 0 damage, 1k+ hp suit dies.* "Thought so..." I mean -- it's interesting that CCP doesn't want scouts shotgunning or knifing while still decloaking. I cannot comment on whether the mechanics are fine now or not because it's never been an issue for me. On the occasion that I don't I never see it coming and certainly don't complain -- good on the scout for sneaking up on me/us. It's entirely an issue of when you catch said cloaked scout and are unable to shoot him due to bullets not assigning damage..well that's where we get stuck with the slaying concept.
this.. scouts are soo numerous because of how OP they are now when ever im hacking or doing something 9 times out of 10 im right when i think "im soo gotta get F'd by a scout while im doing this"
id also liek to see the death toll and Kill tolls for each suit time.. id expect to see scouts on top because of their OP nature
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1216
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 03:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mike Ox Bigger wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots are rarely taken beyond the 450 meter range prenerf or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths. Nah it's ewar being too strong combined with the ability to have as much hp as the assault. They know where you are and you can't pick them up on a passive scan for ****. Scanners are in a terrible place so you can't battle them with that either. You can only fight scout with another scout and what usually happens is both sides just end up killing each others non-scout players. When you nerfed the burst HMG everyone shrugged and turned into a scout making matters even worse.
i agree.. sicne burst HMG nerf sentinel numbers plummeted and were replaced with scouts.. mostly cal scout.. its getting to a poitn where we literally should change dusts name to Scout514 or Cloak514.. its THAT out of hand hell even scouts are being used for snipeing too
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1023
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 03:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
A fire delay after de-cloaking alone will not balance cloaks. Especially a laughably small delay of 0.33 seconds.
First off, we need to address the abuse of macros with cloaks. For those of you who don't know, controllers or keyboards with macro functions can input a customized set of commands at inhuman speeds. Combined with the cloak, you can shoot or drop remotes and re-cloak faster than the game can render allowing you to shoot or drop remotes without ever having to de-cloak. The fix for this is simple; whenever a player de-cloaks, the cloak must go into a cool-down state.
A cloak delay is necessary but only needs to be long enough such that the cloak user is visible before they can shoot. If the CCP implements these recommended changes in this post, a delay of 0.33 or less could be reasonable.
The last item to be addressed is cloak's E-war "god mode". Using a cloak doesn't just make you visibly harder to detect. It's also makes you more difficult to find with detection, which should be a cloaks counter. Combine with dampening modules and the cloak user becomes visibly harder to detect and completely immune to detection; E-war "god mode". To fix this, the cloak bonus to profile should be a profile penalty. In this way, un-cloaked dampened players can hide from detection but are vulnerable to being visually spotted. Cloaked dampened players can be visually difficult to detect but are more vulnerable to detection. No more E-war "god mode".
These 3 changes are the bare minimal needed to make cloaks balanced.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Magnus Amadeuss
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1189
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 03:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:
First off, we need to address the abuse of macros with cloaks. For those of you who don't know, controllers or keyboards with macro functions can input a customized set of commands at inhuman speeds. Combined with the cloak, you can shoot or drop remotes and re-cloak faster than the game can render allowing you to shoot or drop remotes without ever having to de-cloak. The fix for this is simple; whenever a player de-cloaks, the cloak must go into a cool-down state.
Seriously? My god that is horrible.
I am not doubting what you claim, but do you have a video of that?
EWAR tool
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medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1026
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 04:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:medomai grey wrote:
First off, we need to address the abuse of macros with cloaks. For those of you who don't know, controllers or keyboards with macro functions can input a customized set of commands at inhuman speeds. Combined with the cloak, you can shoot or drop remotes and re-cloak faster than the game can render allowing you to shoot or drop remotes without ever having to de-cloak. The fix for this is simple; whenever a player de-cloaks, the cloak must go into a cool-down state.
Seriously? My god that is horrible. I am not doubting what you claim, but do you have a video of that? I heard it from a friend who heard it from the person abusing the mechanics. But I don't doubt it because I've been shot in CQC by a cloaked guy that took a good while to de-cloak; luckily his aim really sucked.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12713
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 05:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
593
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 06:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be.
get shot, cloak drops? perfect.
or, get shot too many times while cloaked, and then the cloak fails. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1745
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 07:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless.
Not at all. I want the suits to be balanced, and all I'm saying is that adding a cloak delay won't really solve much. In order to balance scouts with other suits, I think more will need to be done.
Either make them more squishy when avoiding all scans, remove directional information from passive scans, make the cloak harder to fit (lowering fitting bonus), or something, because the imbalance of scouts and their prevalence in matches due to the exploitation of passive scans and high alpha weapons won't go away if you simply add a delay to uncloaking.
Let me put it to you another way: Do you really think you'll die that much less if a scout uncloaks a second or three seconds before he shoots you in the back of the head, if he's had you on passives the entire time?
Not if he's good. You'll never see him coming, and the delay won't mean much other than he'll have to plan a few seconds ahead. |
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
137
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 07:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless. Not at all. I want the suits to be balanced, and all I'm saying is that adding a cloak delay won't really solve much. In order to balance scouts with other suits, I think more will need to be done. Either make them more squishy when avoiding all scans, remove directional information from passive scans, make the cloak harder to fit (lowering fitting bonus), or something, because the imbalance of scouts and their prevalence in matches due to the effectiveness of a cloak combined with passive scans and a high alpha weapon won't go away if you simply add a delay to uncloaking. Let me put it to you another way: Do you really think you'll die that much less if a scout uncloaks a second or three seconds before he shoots you in the back of the head, if he's had you on passives the entire time? Not if he's good. You'll never see him coming, and the delay won't mean much.
This! I don't even use cloak and I stalk people all the time scan left and right till I have a target and proceed to stalk turning as they turn never seen until I stab them. pst I am not that good.
P.S. A good scout? lolz
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 08:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
Bullshit...... 5 seconds minimum. |
NIETZCHES OVERMAN
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 09:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Joel II X wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:Most good users of the cloak use it to approach their target from behind, and the cloak delay will not really help in this regard.
IMO it won't be enough to simply add a delay. Sounds like you want the cloak to be useless. Not at all. I want the suits to be balanced by reducing the cloaked scout's unfair advantage of stealth and passive scans and lots of HP, and all I'm saying is that adding a cloak delay won't really solve much in this regard. In order to balance scouts with other suits, I think more will need to be done. Either make them more squishy when avoiding all scans (and particularly those of the medium suits that all scouts feast on), make the cloak harder to fit (lowering fitting bonus, effectively making them more squishy), or remove directional information from passive scans (the real problem, IMO) -- or some combination thereof -- because the imbalance of scouts and their prevalence in matches due to the effectiveness of a cloak combined with passive scans and a high alpha weapon won't go away if you simply add a delay to uncloaking. Let me put it to you another way: Do you really think you'll die that much less if a scout uncloaks a second or three seconds before he shoots you in the back of the head, if he's had you on passives the entire time? Not if he's good. You'll never see him coming, and the delay won't mean much. Hey idiot, do you think that scout will be able to set and hide in that corner watching scans if there is a delay? Do you think you might hear the cloak and turn around? Do you think he could move about the map, decloak ohk with knives and disappear before the body falls with a delay? Get real. Cloaks and scouts are op as ****. If you think not go play pc. Shotguns and heavies run the show noobs. Nerf that bs into the ground.
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6738
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be.
CCP also wanted to allow players the ability to shoot while cloaked before the community mass-protested about it just before it was released.
So, I don't believe that for a second 
{ | bittervetmode = 0
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== Description ==
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12719
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be. CCP also wanted to allow players the ability to shoot while cloaked before the community mass-protested about it just before it was released. So, I don't believe that for a second
CCP are weird.
They definitely said at one point that the cloak is for crossing open terrain, not for combat.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6738
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
IMO, cloak delay should be the same duration as it takes for the de-cloaking animation to fully play out. 0.33 seconds, to me, doesn't seem like enough. That short of a delay was similar to the Rail Rifle's charge but it never stopped it from being over-powered.
{ | bittervetmode = 0
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6738
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:23:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be. CCP also wanted to allow players the ability to shoot while cloaked before the community mass-protested about it just before it was released. So, I don't believe that for a second CCP are weird. They definitely said at one point that the cloak is for crossing open terrain, not for combat.
If memory serves, Nova Knife said that's what they [CPM] -wanted- it to be used for. CCP Remnant was pretty hardcore about allowing players to shoot while cloaked though, and there was a CPM CTA to the community to show support for the opposite.
{ | bittervetmode = 0
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This player has recovered morale
[[Category: Hopeful]]
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12719
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:24:00 -
[53] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be. CCP also wanted to allow players the ability to shoot while cloaked before the community mass-protested about it just before it was released. So, I don't believe that for a second CCP are weird. They definitely said at one point that the cloak is for crossing open terrain, not for combat. If memory serves, Nova Knife said that's what they [CPM] -wanted- it to be used for. CCP Remnant was pretty hardcore about allowing players to shoot while cloaked though, and there was a CPM CTA to the community to show support for the opposite.
Are you sure?
My memory may be confusing CPM and CCP tags.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Aeon Amadi
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
6738
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 10:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:If it was my decision, the cloak would be absolutely impossible for use in combat situations.
CCP said back before it was released that this is a tool to cross open terrain, not for combat.
And I still think that's what it should be. CCP also wanted to allow players the ability to shoot while cloaked before the community mass-protested about it just before it was released. So, I don't believe that for a second CCP are weird. They definitely said at one point that the cloak is for crossing open terrain, not for combat. If memory serves, Nova Knife said that's what they [CPM] -wanted- it to be used for. CCP Remnant was pretty hardcore about allowing players to shoot while cloaked though, and there was a CPM CTA to the community to show support for the opposite. Are you sure? My memory may be confusing CPM and CCP tags.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1700008#post1700008
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12719
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Posted - 2014.10.18 10:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Thanks for clearing that up.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4607
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 12:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:That is actually quite exceptional then. I am also happy to hear of more people doing the isf tech stuff, it makes me happy. I actually grabed an older 1080p monitor I had lying around and hooked it up to a spare PS3, and with some adjust ments to contrast (way too high) and brightness (also too high) I can see scouts like chritmas lights indoors/low-light, but now outdoors I can't see them because the background blooms. If I adjust for seeing them outside, I cannot see them inside. My properly calibrate main TV though has exceptional detail and the effect isn't very noticable at all in a lot of situations. Judge made an awesome video on the matter that you should check out. It is also quite incontrovertable proof that the "use your eyes" and "git gud" arguments are B.S.
Well Cloaked Scouts certainly donGÇÖtGÇÖ light up like Christmas trees on my screen, I watch for very subtle clews. I mean when they are standing still we are talking about a very slight curve on a distant wall that should be strait; the small optical distortion as you look through them. Stuff like that.
If I know there is a Scout in the area and I canGÇÖt locate them (I canGÇÖt always) I swing my weapon back and forth to see if my reticle turns red.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
Steel Balls Alliance
983
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 15:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
facepalm.jpg
Please support fair play!
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4616
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 20:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
If Scouts and Assault were reversed on the current end of that graph, I would think we were right where we need to be.
I think if the balance is done right the popularity of suits should go:
Assault
Scout
Logi
Sentinel
Commando
The Logi number is just slightly lower than I think it should be right now, but not much lower.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
141
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Posted - 2014.10.19 20:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
I don't know the parameters of this chart, but since new players start as assault the assault stat would be artificially inflated.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
17366
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 20:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
I will verify the story; the entire CPM 0 was passionately against combat cloaks.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc.
Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
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hfderrtgvcd
879
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Posted - 2014.10.19 21:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons.
forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
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Eruditus 920
Prodigy Ops
580
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind.
If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it.
But it won't.
Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again.
After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit.
Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away.
Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else.
Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Orion Sanjeet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons
Great choices, the only one that can't be used by a scout is the gorge gun. Bravo.
*forge* stupid autocorrect.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
|
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
507
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:16:00 -
[66] - Quote
Can't you just make it so that the cloak has to be manually deactivated before you can switch to your weapon? |
Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind.
If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it.
But it won't.
Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again.
After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit.
Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away.
Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else.
I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
|
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
143
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
I don't know why they don't just make them side arm only. They have cloak to avoid long range and while knives are easy to kill someone it is way harder than a shotgun. A little bit of range/damage deficiency is a small price to pay the jump and smooth flowing cloak. This is what I was talking about in all those posts when I said you guys are going to end up with a nerf that kills the type of playstyle you have now. I was glad I saw someone suggest it in the CPMs link at least someone has some sense. Not that I think this change will make any real difference to the class, but it is more likely they will take a step forward rather than back.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Eruditus 920
Prodigy Ops
580
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:47:00 -
[69] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:Eruditus 920 wrote:A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind.
If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it.
But it won't.
Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again.
After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit.
Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away.
Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else.
I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal.
Did everyone notice how this assclown didn't say he would be happy once the delay is increased, but rather once scouts "are finally brought back down to mortal"?
Read my post again and tell me I'm wrong.
I rest my case.
Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
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SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION
RISE of LEGION
727
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
People who cry about cloaks are funny. The cloak is pretty shiny when the person moves, and I can shoot them before they even start to come out of cloak.
The cloak has never been OP in this game. You are just not observant. |
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hfderrtgvcd
891
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Orion Sanjeet wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack.
As for what it should be?
Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons
Great choices, the only one that can't be used by a scout is the gorge gun. Bravo.
*forge* stupid autocorrect.[/quote]
You could have said "Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered heavy weapons" just as easily then.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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hfderrtgvcd
891
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 01:53:00 -
[72] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks.
lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you?
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Vesta Opalus
Bloodline Rebellion
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 02:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Eruditus 920 wrote:Orion Sanjeet wrote:Eruditus 920 wrote:A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind.
If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it.
But it won't.
Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again.
After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit.
Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away.
Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else.
I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal. Did everyone notice how this assclown didn't say he would be happy once the delay is increased, but rather once scouts "are finally brought back down to mortal"? Read my post again and tell me I'm wrong. I rest my case.
Its cool how you think its "high alpha deaths" that people are complaining about. Maybe its the combination of invisibility, one shot deaths, and wallhack combined with more speed than any other suit. Defend that ****, go ahead, lose every shred of your credibility as someone who gives two ***** about balance. |
jNs Vit4l
THE 300 SPARTANS
37
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 02:56:00 -
[74] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7
L O L isnt the hit mark and shivering enough to spot a cloaker.. i suggest you jump of a bringe if you cannot deal with cloak the way it is now..
CEO of The 300 Spartans!
Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L Min / Gal Fw
FW FTW!
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
144
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 03:12:00 -
[75] - Quote
Here for you fail scouts that are to ******** to understand your own class. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2257
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 03:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
What is an ideal delay?
That's a tough question because it depends on ever-changing network variables, but for me it comes down to this: If the dirty clacker hasn't rendered on my PS3 he should not be able to pull that trigger.
Anything else kinda results in a broken cloak mechanic.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Henrietta Unknown
Nox Lupos
397
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 06:19:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cloak seems fine, it's the vast majority of the playebluebase who can't bring themselves to watch out for themselves AND others.
Everyone wants to slay. No one wants to check their six for that gk.0/ak.0/ck.0/mk.0 ganking from behind. And they STILL don't learn. Squads fare slightly better, but only slightly.
It's when there are whole squads of scouts or very particularly good scouts that come into play that everyone notices. And because of SP/awareness/tactic gap between the hunter and the hunted, the prey's natural tendency is to cry "nerf".
The only scenario that I can excuse is scout kills within areas infested with shimmering equipment and bright lights (i.e. Gal Research Lab). Cloaks are optimal there.
Give the Magsex some love.
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
292
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 08:31:00 -
[78] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Orion Sanjeet wrote:How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you?
wouldn't make it useless, you still wouldn't show up on tacnet because the cloaks damp bonus stacked on your suit and mods. still not the best idea...
Quote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:
I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7
always thought this |
medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1029
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 08:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
jNs Vit4l wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7 L O L isnt the hit mark and shivering enough to spot a cloaker.. i suggest you jump of a bringe if you cannot deal with cloak the way it is now..
Assuming your communicating in English, I don't know how you expect him/her to jump off a bringe, a verb. However, seeing as you expect people to easily see those who use equipment that makes the user difficult to see, I am not in the least surprised by the absurdity of your demands.
PS: Seriously though. How do you expect him to "jump OF" an obsolete spelling of bring?
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
492
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 11:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
Just saying, that the cloak has nothing to do with being a good scout.
People are just blind in this game, I run my scout with no cloak and do very well. It's awareness that needs to be given to people. They don't understand the shimmer, they don't understand the decloak sound, and they sure as hell don't understand the charge up sound of all the weapons in the game.
Also, The counter to a scout is a group of people. With the exception of remotes it's very safe to be in a group. With all the downside the scout has if people only understand what to look for.. but some people just want to shoot things... then complain if they didn't get to shoot things.
Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
144
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 11:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Just saying, that the cloak has nothing to do with being a good scout.
People are just blind in this game, I run my scout with no cloak and do very well. It's awareness that needs to be given to people. They don't understand the shimmer, they don't understand the decloak sound, and they sure as hell don't understand the charge up sound of all the weapons in the game.
Also, The counter to a scout is a group of people. With the exception of remotes it's very safe to be in a group. With all the downside the scout has if people only understand what to look for.. but some people just want to shoot things... then complain if they didn't get to shoot things.
Bro you're one of those scouts I brought up in my earlier post while running no cloak as I do will grant you kills there is a huge difference between that type of play style and an invisible assault scout... watch these videos Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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NextDark Knight
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
494
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:00:00 -
[82] - Quote
Seen these videos when Judge first posted them, no difference if being shot from behind, the person who engages first always has advantage.
The second video that player with his skill level still wouldn't seen a scout without a cloak because he is under the sensor. Judge could of equipped a G-1 Assault suit with profile damps and still got the same results on the first player.
Also these videos are really old lots of minor tweaks happened since this was posted.
Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
144
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:25:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lol get real bro I can assure you that most if not all of the issues brought up are still what we are still discussing 4-5 months later despite all of the minor tweaks that had little to no effect on what we are discussing.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
154
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
Lol get real bro I can assure you that most if not all of the issues brought up are still what we are still discussing 4-5 months later despite all of the minor tweaks that had little to no effect on what we are discussing.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
256
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 00:23:00 -
[85] - Quote
I feel the need to reiterate myself.
Cloaks and shotguns and knives and everything else traditionally scout could be left completely unchanged and everything would be fine if scouts themselves took damage at the same rate everyone else does.
Fix how scouts take damage. You can leave the cloak alone. Smart scouts that actually 'scout' well will be able to play very well. I never once complain when a scout sneaks up on me and shotguns or nova knifes me. I complain when I see a scout 60 meters out zigzaging toward me, unload on him, and he covers the distance with virtually no damage taken. Or stays those 60 meters out strafing back and forth through bullets and combat rifle me down. It 's silly that scouts have the highest damage resistance in the game unintentionally via hit detection. |
Mex-0
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 01:10:00 -
[86] - Quote
Usually for me, 0.33 seconds is enough. In that delay, I have enough time to get into Aim Down Sight mode, and the enemy is dead by 2 seconds.
I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
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Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 01:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Orion Sanjeet wrote:How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you?
I'm just tossing **** at a wall until something sticks. However, scouts are the bane of my logi existence so I suppose that is bleeding through into of my ideas. Who knows maybe weapon fire delay from cloak will fix getting shot twice by a shotgun by a little invisible... by a person using a cloak. Until I actually see a better ratio of suits on the field other than the scout then I will assume that the suit is still broken OP.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
|
Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
148
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 12:29:00 -
[88] - Quote
Positives:
No cloaked Fire
Small increase in detection chance
Negitives:
Disrupts combat flow
Reduces Side Arm Only Viability With Cloak
Makes assault scout the only viable play style with cloak (the issue in the first place)
Will require further changes
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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The Master Race
Immortal Guides
154
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 12:29:00 -
[89] - Quote
Positives:
No cloaked Fire
Small increase in detection chance
Negitives:
Disrupts combat flow
Reduces Side Arm Only Viability With Cloak
Makes assault scout the only viable play style with cloak (the issue in the first place)
Will require further changes
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
|
medomai grey
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
1035
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 13:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:I feel the need to reiterate myself.
Cloaks and shotguns and knives and everything else traditionally scout could be left completely unchanged and everything would be fine if scouts themselves took damage at the same rate everyone else does.
Fix how scouts take damage. You can leave the cloak alone. Smart scouts that actually 'scout' well will be able to play very well. I never once complain when a scout sneaks up on me and shotguns or nova knifes me. I complain when I see a scout 60 meters out zigzaging toward me, unload on him, and he covers the distance with virtually no damage taken. Or stays those 60 meters out strafing back and forth through bullets and combat rifle me down. It 's silly that scouts have the highest damage resistance in the game unintentionally via hit detection. You are touching on the subject that applies to all suits, not just scout suits. The problem of super inhuman strafing and dancing through bullets will never be fixed because...
*points finger at the dust community and CCP*
Its all their fault. 
How to balance cloaks.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
2157
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 14:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
More garbage Changes advocated by Garbage players... Scrubs need to get good that is all... |
Orion Sanjeet
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 15:10:00 -
[92] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? More garbage Changes advocated by Garbage players... Scrubs need to get good that is all...
Does Magnus not realize that .33 is the current delay, or am I wrong and there currently isn't a delay?
Also, a safe update to start out with would be to just double the current delay to .66 and see how it goes from there.
"Thats due to lag.
The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag."
-Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2217
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 16:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds. 0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak.
Oh yeah, you're bad if you can't hit a scout, nevermind how fast they move side to side while shooting, oh know, it's all the person chasing the scout's fault.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Duke Noobiam
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
207
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 20:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
It should be the same as the delay a logi experiences when switching from an active repair tool to a weapon.
Not sure how long this is, but it feels like an eternity.
How do you kill that which has no life?
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
419
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 22:06:00 -
[95] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay?
In most opinions you have post 1.8 scouts and true scouts. True scouts could have a 10 second delay, and it wouldn't matter. Post 1.8 scouts will have something to complain about regardless to what it is. They started running a class in it's worst phase?! You never want to run a suit or weapon while it's OP. It has the tendency to become a crutch for your playstyle so while your kd may skyrocket, your skills will plummet?!
Post 1.7 tankers got nerfed, and some don't even tank anymore?! Slayer logis eventually becoming assault, and the scouts will be no different. Eventually they will become balanced, and only the true scout will be left standing.
If it is currently 0.33 seconds, and will be dropped true scouts will simply adjust an already hardened playstyle. FOTM scouts will be running something different.
"Anybody order chaos?"
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
669
|
Posted - 2014.10.21 22:07:00 -
[96] - Quote
The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
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Mex-0
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
99
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Posted - 2014.10.21 23:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
couldn't you just increase the sensitivity of the controller?
I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
670
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 05:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
couldn't you just increase the sensitivity of the controller?
No, even at max sensitivity the turn speed is terrible.
Play Borderlands and try to turn around, then play Dust. It's a world of difference, and it's part of what allows scouts to go unchecked in this game. |
IMMORTAL WAR HERO
NECROM0NGERS
238
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 05:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Another problem is that a lot of players I know are very low awareness. I know this because I have played my cal assault as a scout before and well the number of folks I sneak up on and put them out of their misery is quite a bit still and this suit doesn't have a cloak.
Similar to how many sniper shots are rarely taken beyond the 450 meter range prenerf or how many players who assumed they got shot by a sniper had it done to them from the redline. I mean I have gotten an angry mail once accusational of redline sniping; when infact I shot this poor sob point blank from the back of his head.
WBT Deathlogs so you can see the stats of every one of your deaths.
xd cloaked raven assualt dren shotty
Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
515
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 08:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
instead of making the delay longer, make it so you cant switch out of the cloak until it is manually deactivated. then there is no ' im still cloaked but i can still shoot shenanigans'. |
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NAV HIV
The Generals
2158
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
Orion Sanjeet wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? More garbage Changes advocated by Garbage players... Scrubs need to get good that is all... Does Magnus not realize that .33 is the current delay, or am I wrong and there currently isn't a delay? Also, a safe update to start out with would be to just double the current delay to .66 and see how it goes from there.
They should honestly fix the core mechanics of the game. Some people whined since the beginning of "Cloak" business. At first it was too Effective. Hot fix Bravo was great. After that, all the bitching and moaning about Cloaks and Stupid morons like IWS and other scrublords ruined this game. CCP Ratt did a great job with Alpha and Bravo. Some changes in Charlie was unnecessary.
- Amar scout needed a buff, but not at the cost of Nerfing another Scout. Me and others like myself actually read the labels when CCP first introduced All the scout suits. All the typical FOTM chasers went straight for Gal scout + Shotty. They brick tanked their suits and realized how stupid that is. That is when they realised their mistake. lol But the EWAR business was going great. Specially Bravo (One of the best hot fixes in Dust history) But seriously, why change the total role of a suit to please scrubs ?! Wasted 2.5 mil SP. For me it didn't matter much, i simply switched to gal scout. But for people who didn't have that option, it must've really sucked.
- Changing Heavy suit stats. Who and Why would they think that Amarr Heavy needed an extra low slot?! lol I felt very bad for all the Gal and Cal heavies...
CCP should've noticed how many vets they lost after Hotfix charlie. Now this game is full of half assed players with bloated egos that match their tiny peanut sized brains..
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
155
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Posted - 2014.10.22 14:18:00 -
[102] - Quote
I like and play no cloak sidearm scout I don't understand why they are not just made side arms only. You can kill with almost just as much ease and it removes all of the super cheap aspects of the class. A battle with a side arms scout despite the cloak bug is still balanced because of the lower dps giving the prey and actual chance to fight back. Nova knifes are the exception to this, but as we all know it is a lot easier to kill a nova knifer that misses that first shot than a shot gunner because the shot gunner still has a one shot at range.
New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
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Mex-0
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
100
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Posted - 2014.10.22 15:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
couldn't you just increase the sensitivity of the controller? No, even at max sensitivity the turn speed is terrible. Play Borderlands and try to turn around, then play Dust. It's a world of difference, and it's part of what allows scouts to go unchecked in this game.
So you're blaming the scouts being OP on your controller? I'm pretty sure having more armor plates equipped slows your turning speed. At least it feels like it.
I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
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benandjerrys
NECROM0NGERS
53
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Posted - 2014.10.22 15:21:00 -
[104] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:So just in case you guys missed it, here is CCP Rattati talking in reference to the cloak delay: CCP Rattati wrote:
nono, its less than a second, 0.33 seconds to be precise. It may go up but it's meant to be a fluid motion, just not straight out of cloak.
What is your opinion of a 0.33 second delay? To put this in perspective, this means that when I shoot a Cloaked Scout they will not be able to defend themselves for 0.33 seconds. 0.33 Seconds should be plenty of time to kill a Scout if you manage to hit it. And if you canGÇÖt hit a Scout it is not because of the Cloak. Since when did the cloak not make you difficult/impossible to see? Or are you suggesting I cut the life of my TV in half by cranking up the brightness/contrast to ridiculously out-of-spec settings?
Allright nobody's saying it... slight speed nerf when cloaked cqc abilities are more limited now. This keeps your non bricked assaults safe. And this is from a dude that likes using shotgun scout. Eve does it why cant we? |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
674
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Posted - 2014.10.22 19:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
couldn't you just increase the sensitivity of the controller? No, even at max sensitivity the turn speed is terrible. Play Borderlands and try to turn around, then play Dust. It's a world of difference, and it's part of what allows scouts to go unchecked in this game. So you're blaming the scouts being OP on your controller? I'm pretty sure having more armor plates equipped slows your turning speed. At least it feels like it.
No, I play with a mouse, I actually have a fighting chance when a scout gets the drop on me.
I'm saying the turn speed of the DS3, which the vast majority of people playing this game use, has a low turn speed. And that turn speed makes it easier for scouts to essentially collect free kills. Raise the turn speed and getting the drop on someone has less of an impact on the outcome of the engagement, and this will help balance out the scouts.
Also, armor plates don't affect turn speed. |
Kaeru Nayiri
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
99
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Posted - 2014.10.22 19:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
My opinion is 0.33 seconds is adequate.
A full second would really jar the flow of decloak -> Nova Knife Charge -> Leap -> Let go. The worst thing that could happen is switching to knives from cloak, holding the button down, but the knives not charging at all due to fire delay. Then no swing at all would occur when letting go of the button and you've now revealed your position.
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Mex-0
G0DS AM0NG MEN
General Tso's Alliance
102
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Posted - 2014.10.22 20:51:00 -
[107] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Mex-0 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The delay should be 2 seconds AND the DS3 turn speed needs a HUGE buff.
couldn't you just increase the sensitivity of the controller? No, even at max sensitivity the turn speed is terrible. Play Borderlands and try to turn around, then play Dust. It's a world of difference, and it's part of what allows scouts to go unchecked in this game. So you're blaming the scouts being OP on your controller? I'm pretty sure having more armor plates equipped slows your turning speed. At least it feels like it. No, I play with a mouse, I actually have a fighting chance when a scout gets the drop on me. I'm saying the turn speed of the DS3, which the vast majority of people playing this game use, has a low turn speed. And that turn speed makes it easier for scouts to essentially collect free kills. Raise the turn speed and getting the drop on someone has less of an impact on the outcome of the engagement, and this will help balance out the scouts. Also, armor plates don't affect turn speed.
I didn't know about the armor plates, it's just when I play as a heavy (once in a blue moon) I feel like I turn way slower.
I've always been able to turn pretty quickly, when I start getting shot at, I jump around and turn. at that point, I can whip out my SMG and finish em off.
I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
268
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Posted - 2014.10.24 04:24:00 -
[108] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Imp Smash wrote:I feel the need to reiterate myself.
Cloaks and shotguns and knives and everything else traditionally scout could be left completely unchanged and everything would be fine if scouts themselves took damage at the same rate everyone else does.
Fix how scouts take damage. You can leave the cloak alone. Smart scouts that actually 'scout' well will be able to play very well. I never once complain when a scout sneaks up on me and shotguns or nova knifes me. I complain when I see a scout 60 meters out zigzaging toward me, unload on him, and he covers the distance with virtually no damage taken. Or stays those 60 meters out strafing back and forth through bullets and combat rifle me down. It 's silly that scouts have the highest damage resistance in the game unintentionally via hit detection. You are touching on the subject that applies to all suits, not just scout suits. The problem of super inhuman strafing and dancing through bullets will never be fixed because... *points finger at the dust community and CCP*
Its all their fault.
I'm not though. This problem doesn't affect medium or heavy suits. But I have on multiple occaisions watched scout suit beat a HMG in a head to head fight at 15 meters out just strafing. With minimal life lost.
This is of course the exception -- but when applied to marksman weapons such as the Tar, CR, or ScR, it's more pronounced, |
howard sanchez
984
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Posted - 2014.10.24 04:41:00 -
[109] - Quote
0,33 second Cloak delay- and you wanna know what they think? I'll tell you what they think- they don't fuckin know what they think regardless what they post because everyone of these armchair devs have never played with 0.33 cloak delay.
So stfu all you omniscient fps pros. Play it and find out.
Show off your Quafe
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