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Cloak Delay [1.9]

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Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 202	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:07:00 - [61] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack. As for what it should be? Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. "Thats due to lag. The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag." -Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
hfderrtgvcd 879	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:13:00 - [62] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack. As for what it should be? Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 202	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:14:00 - [63] - Quote How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. "Thats due to lag. The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag." -Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 580	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:15:00 - [64] - Quote A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind. If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it. But it won't. Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again. After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit. Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away. Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else. Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 202	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:15:00 - [65] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack. As for what it should be? Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons Great choices, the only one that can't be used by a scout is the gorge gun. Bravo. forge stupid autocorrect. "Thats due to lag. The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag." -Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 507	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:16:00 - [66] - Quote Can't you just make it so that the cloak has to be manually deactivated before you can switch to your weapon?
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 202	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:19:00 - [67] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind. If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it. But it won't. Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again. After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit. Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away. Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else. I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal. "Thats due to lag. The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag." -Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 143	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:26:00 - [68] - Quote I don't know why they don't just make them side arm only. They have cloak to avoid long range and while knives are easy to kill someone it is way harder than a shotgun. A little bit of range/damage deficiency is a small price to pay the jump and smooth flowing cloak. This is what I was talking about in all those posts when I said you guys are going to end up with a nerf that kills the type of playstyle you have now. I was glad I saw someone suggest it in the CPMs link at least someone has some sense. Not that I think this change will make any real difference to the class, but it is more likely they will take a step forward rather than back. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 580	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:47:00 - [69] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: Eruditus 920 wrote: A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind. If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it. But it won't. Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again. After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit. Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away. Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else. I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal. Did everyone notice how this assclown didn't say he would be happy once the delay is increased, but rather once scouts "are finally brought back down to mortal"? Read my post again and tell me I'm wrong. I rest my case. Wisdom is what you gain after you need it.
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 727	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:46:00 - [70] - Quote People who cry about cloaks are funny. The cloak is pretty shiny when the person moves, and I can shoot them before they even start to come out of cloak. The cloak has never been OP in this game. You are just not observant.

hfderrtgvcd 891	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:52:00 - [71] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 0.33 is an awfully long time in an FPS. Especially in CQC and our current TTK spans. Just long enough to make it likely a stupid move to decloak in front of the enemy to attack. As for what it should be? Can't give you that number; I am not experienced or well versed enough to spit numbers out on the fly I can try it out for you after the change and tell you if its too much or not enough but Ill leave it to the better experts to come up with a better time frame. Yeah, 0.33 seconds is a long time if you're talking about games like CoD where you can shoot a guy once in the foot and he dies, but in Dust, where it can take multiple seconds to kill a guy, 0.33 seconds isn't as long as you make it out to be. o7 Unfortunately in Dust there are weapons where you can kill a guy with a single shot to the foot and most of those are cqc. Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered scout weapons. forge guns, sniper rifles, and plasma cannons are hardly scout weapons Great choices, the only one that can't be used by a scout is the gorge gun. Bravo. forge stupid autocorrect.[/quote] You could have said "Isn't it interesting that all those around consider one shot killers are considered heavy weapons" just as easily then. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
hfderrtgvcd 891	Posted - 2014.10.20 01:53:00 - [72] - Quote Orion Sanjeet wrote: How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion 74	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:35:00 - [73] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: Eruditus 920 wrote: A longer delay won't change my scout play whatsoever. I attack from behind. If making it 5 seconds will finally shut the girls up about scouts then I'm all for it. But it won't. Just like asking for respecs. If CCP granted one, a week later the crying would start again. After the cloak delay is adjusted, the girls will start in on some other scout nerf vomit. Because players don't like high alpha deaths. Live with it, it isn't going away. Neither are snipers. Don't like it? Play something else. I'll happy once the demi-god scouts are finally brought back down to mortal. Did everyone notice how this assclown didn't say he would be happy once the delay is increased, but rather once scouts "are finally brought back down to mortal"? Read my post again and tell me I'm wrong. I rest my case. Its cool how you think its "high alpha deaths" that people are complaining about. Maybe its the combination of invisibility, one shot deaths, and wallhack combined with more speed than any other suit. Defend that **, go ahead, lose every shred of your credibility as someone who gives two *** about balance.
jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 37	Posted - 2014.10.20 02:56:00 - [74] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7 L O L isnt the hit mark and shivering enough to spot a cloaker.. i suggest you jump of a bringe if you cannot deal with cloak the way it is now.. CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L Min / Gal Fw FW FTW!
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:12:00 - [75] - Quote Here for you fail scouts that are to ******** to understand your own class. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2257	Posted - 2014.10.20 03:27:00 - [76] - Quote What is an ideal delay? That's a tough question because it depends on ever-changing network variables, but for me it comes down to this: If the dirty clacker hasn't rendered on my PS3 he should not be able to pull that trigger. Anything else kinda results in a broken cloak mechanic. PSN: RationalSpark
Henrietta Unknown Nox Lupos 397	Posted - 2014.10.20 06:19:00 - [77] - Quote Cloak seems fine, it's the vast majority of the playebluebase who can't bring themselves to watch out for themselves AND others. Everyone wants to slay. No one wants to check their six for that gk.0/ak.0/ck.0/mk.0 ganking from behind. And they STILL don't learn. Squads fare slightly better, but only slightly. It's when there are whole squads of scouts or very particularly good scouts that come into play that everyone notices. And because of SP/awareness/tactic gap between the hunter and the hunted, the prey's natural tendency is to cry "nerf". The only scenario that I can excuse is scout kills within areas infested with shimmering equipment and bright lights (i.e. Gal Research Lab). Cloaks are optimal there. Give the Magsex some love.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2014.10.20 08:31:00 - [78] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you? wouldn't make it useless, you still wouldn't show up on tacnet because the cloaks damp bonus stacked on your suit and mods. still not the best idea... Quote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7 always thought this
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1029	Posted - 2014.10.20 08:56:00 - [79] - Quote jNs Vit4l wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I also think that taking damage should deactivate the cloak. o7 L O L isnt the hit mark and shivering enough to spot a cloaker.. i suggest you jump of a bringe if you cannot deal with cloak the way it is now.. Assuming your communicating in English, I don't know how you expect him/her to jump off a bringe, a verb. However, seeing as you expect people to easily see those who use equipment that makes the user difficult to see, I am not in the least surprised by the absurdity of your demands. PS: Seriously though. How do you expect him to "jump OF" an obsolete spelling of bring? What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 492	Posted - 2014.10.20 11:21:00 - [80] - Quote Just saying, that the cloak has nothing to do with being a good scout. People are just blind in this game, I run my scout with no cloak and do very well. It's awareness that needs to be given to people. They don't understand the shimmer, they don't understand the decloak sound, and they sure as hell don't understand the charge up sound of all the weapons in the game. Also, The counter to a scout is a group of people. With the exception of remotes it's very safe to be in a group. With all the downside the scout has if people only understand what to look for.. but some people just want to shoot things... then complain if they didn't get to shoot things. Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 11:32:00 - [81] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Just saying, that the cloak has nothing to do with being a good scout. People are just blind in this game, I run my scout with no cloak and do very well. It's awareness that needs to be given to people. They don't understand the shimmer, they don't understand the decloak sound, and they sure as hell don't understand the charge up sound of all the weapons in the game. Also, The counter to a scout is a group of people. With the exception of remotes it's very safe to be in a group. With all the downside the scout has if people only understand what to look for.. but some people just want to shoot things... then complain if they didn't get to shoot things. Bro you're one of those scouts I brought up in my earlier post while running no cloak as I do will grant you kills there is a huge difference between that type of play style and an invisible assault scout... watch these videos Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSBICx2yyZo Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj8vXTqgw1M New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 494	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:00:00 - [82] - Quote Seen these videos when Judge first posted them, no difference if being shot from behind, the person who engages first always has advantage. The second video that player with his skill level still wouldn't seen a scout without a cloak because he is under the sensor. Judge could of equipped a G-1 Assault suit with profile damps and still got the same results on the first player. Also these videos are really old lots of minor tweaks happened since this was posted. Over 50 Million SP and almost full proto in all Caldari Suits. No matter how hard CCP tries Dust just won't die on PS3/4
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 144	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:25:00 - [83] - Quote Lol get real bro I can assure you that most if not all of the issues brought up are still what we are still discussing 4-5 months later despite all of the minor tweaks that had little to no effect on what we are discussing. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 154	Posted - 2014.10.20 13:25:00 - [84] - Quote Lol get real bro I can assure you that most if not all of the issues brought up are still what we are still discussing 4-5 months later despite all of the minor tweaks that had little to no effect on what we are discussing. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 256	Posted - 2014.10.21 00:23:00 - [85] - Quote I feel the need to reiterate myself. Cloaks and shotguns and knives and everything else traditionally scout could be left completely unchanged and everything would be fine if scouts themselves took damage at the same rate everyone else does. Fix how scouts take damage. You can leave the cloak alone. Smart scouts that actually 'scout' well will be able to play very well. I never once complain when a scout sneaks up on me and shotguns or nova knifes me. I complain when I see a scout 60 meters out zigzaging toward me, unload on him, and he covers the distance with virtually no damage taken. Or stays those 60 meters out strafing back and forth through bullets and combat rifle me down. It 's silly that scouts have the highest damage resistance in the game unintentionally via hit detection.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:10:00 - [86] - Quote Usually for me, 0.33 seconds is enough. In that delay, I have enough time to get into Aim Down Sight mode, and the enemy is dead by 2 seconds. I used the bolt pistol before it was (OP) cool.
Orion Sanjeet Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 203	Posted - 2014.10.21 01:35:00 - [87] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Orion Sanjeet wrote: How about if you come within 10 meters of an enemy while you are moving, (let the campers camp) it automatically decloaks. lol so basically make the cloak completely useless. Are you even interested in balance at all or do you just want to nerf whatever kills you? I'm just tossing **** at a wall until something sticks. However, scouts are the bane of my logi existence so I suppose that is bleeding through into of my ideas. Who knows maybe weapon fire delay from cloak will fix getting shot twice by a shotgun by a little invisible... by a person using a cloak. Until I actually see a better ratio of suits on the field other than the scout then I will assume that the suit is still broken OP. "Thats due to lag. The scout is uncloaked, but doesn't render as such because there is lag." -Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 148	Posted - 2014.10.21 12:29:00 - [88] - Quote Positives: No cloaked Fire Small increase in detection chance Negitives: Disrupts combat flow Reduces Side Arm Only Viability With Cloak Makes assault scout the only viable play style with cloak (the issue in the first place) Will require further changes New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 154	Posted - 2014.10.21 12:29:00 - [89] - Quote Positives: No cloaked Fire Small increase in detection chance Negitives: Disrupts combat flow Reduces Side Arm Only Viability With Cloak Makes assault scout the only viable play style with cloak (the issue in the first place) Will require further changes New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
medomai grey WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1035	Posted - 2014.10.21 13:13:00 - [90] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I feel the need to reiterate myself. Cloaks and shotguns and knives and everything else traditionally scout could be left completely unchanged and everything would be fine if scouts themselves took damage at the same rate everyone else does. Fix how scouts take damage. You can leave the cloak alone. Smart scouts that actually 'scout' well will be able to play very well. I never once complain when a scout sneaks up on me and shotguns or nova knifes me. I complain when I see a scout 60 meters out zigzaging toward me, unload on him, and he covers the distance with virtually no damage taken. Or stays those 60 meters out strafing back and forth through bullets and combat rifle me down. It 's silly that scouts have the highest damage resistance in the game unintentionally via hit detection. You are touching on the subject that applies to all suits, not just scout suits. The problem of super inhuman strafing and dancing through bullets will never be fixed because... points finger at the dust community and CCP Its all their fault. How to balance cloaks.



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