A buff I would find acceptable:
Armor repair Vehicles have a skill to boost the EFFECTIVENESS of armor repair, give shields a skill to boost the effectiveness of Shield Boosters, to match. This would really make my day.

Hey Rattati, I dunno how useful this is to your purposes, but I have a buncha practical application testing i did based around the dropship nerfs. If you haven't taken a look, here's the post-nerf stuff.

I'm interested to hear if any of this is useful


@CCP Rattati and ADS drivers.
Test nerds needed.
ADS TTK test Day 1. Ideal conditions to kill Sentinels.
ADS TTK Day 2: Python with small missiles [COMPLETE]
ADS TTK Day 3 Thunderdome Test:

No, none of it is pro-whining, just sharing my findings with the group, as well as my thoughts.

Overall I don't think that the small blaster's poor performance as a pilot weapon on an ADS is the fault of the gun, but the limitations of the platform. But I did notice that in addition for it being insanely hard for dropship pilots to keep on target it overheats INSANELY fast.

Most of the tests me and Resistance did with it had the gun overheating in almost every test run.

(A similar question but off topic, the Gunnlogi is quite less efficient than the Madrugar, bonus points to explain why)

Out of curiosity:
In Eve Online, what does a shield tank look like and which low slot modules are used for passive and active tanks?
(When I tried Eve for 6 months, I only ever delved into armor tank theory.)

Thanks for that. I'm fairly certain that adopting Eve-style fitting philosophy in the mid- to long-term is going to improve the situation. Maybe it isn't for the short-term though.

I wish CCP would adopt more of Eve's fitting design: less emphasis on hp and more emphasis on resist, more active mod choices, more defined separation between shield and armor fitting philosophies, etc.

I'm in the middle of making a huge post that will have pretty much everything vehicle mods need, so we'll see how that turns out.

[Disclaimer, I am a noob in Eve and this is just the culmination of my admittedly limited experience. For more detailed and accurate data, check a more knowledgable player or perhaps Eve University. Other Capsuleers are encouraged to correct or add on.]

For passive buffer tanks, shield extenders are used in combination with what equates to shield hardeners in Dust (though they take cap rather than have on-off durations). Low slots are almost always used for damage mods and fitting mods. (There are almost no shield mods in low slots, and the ones that exist have bad ) .The idea is to have high buffer and higher dps in order to out last the enemy. (This is the opposite philosophy of armor buffer tanking, where you hope to out last the incoming damage while applying your own. This is because damage mods and armor mods are low slots)

Though used more for PvE, passive rep tanked shield tanks are also used. These take advantage of the shield regen mechanics, where that shield will always regen for the same amount of time, so having a 100hp tank and a 10,000 hp tank will always regen in the same amount of time for the same ship. This, in combination with a huge buffer tank (shield extenders), regen mods (usually shield power relays because of the lack of need for capacitor, similar to Dust's shield rechargers), and resistance hope to curb the damage done from rats (again typically this isn't possible in a PvP setting).

Active tanking requires the use of shield boosters and ancillary shield boosters. Shield boosters require a lot of capacitor to use for extended periods of time but provide a decent boost to shield hp every cycle. They typically use of a cap booster to keep cap level up (mid slot). Ancillary booster work in the same way, providing a much larger boost to hp, but require A LOT more cap. Thankfully, they can be loaded with cap booster charges instead of relying on your own cap (though there is a crazy long reload time). Another mod that is important is the shield boost amplifier that boosts the amount of hp the shield boosts give per cycle. Lows are again used mainly for damage mods.

All in all, there are almost no shield mods for low slots, and the only ones that are available reduce base shield hp or max cap.

I think we should also establish a few rules of thumb

Small Turrets

Blaster: Anti-Infantry
Railgun: Anti-Vehicle
Missiles: Dual Purpose

Current Best to Worst by Type

Anti Infantry
Pilot: Missiles, Blaster, Rails
Sidegunner - Dropship: Blaster, Missile, Rails
Sidegunner - ADS:Blaster, Missile, Rails

Anti Air
Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster
Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster
Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster

Anti Vehicle
Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster
Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster
Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster


Or something along those lines, to see if there are holes/unintended inefficiencies.

Feel free to edit this, or expand, this is just to get the discussion going, please don't go off the rails because of my selections.

You really shouldn't be strafing in an ADS unless you're trying to destroy enemy equipment with a lot of AV on the field.

Orbiting is more practical: it makes you harder to get hit by rails, can make it difficult for infantry below you to find you, keeps your velocity up for quick escapes, keeps your turret targeted on the enemy, and looks pro.

Here's a quick guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u2xnlCyWkg&index=2&t=2m27s

Has anyone else noticed that Rattati hasn't said much of anything while we've been going over random numbers ourselves? It seems kind of odd to me. Are you even watching?

Aye I hear you bro, but this was the entire mindset CCP Rattati and others had when discussing ADS balance. They say we must learn to do strafing runs more and not hover so much. (I dont mean actual left to right strafing, I mean attack runs like proper aircraft)

All I was saying is that if we had a burst small missile or something like that back, strafing runs would actually be viable. As it stands you are totally right, you can knock out equipment with that single missile or two you managed to get fired off during the attack run, but otherwise the damage you can deal is totally symbolic and not of any real substance.

Thanks for the link but I have been flying dropships for quite some time, I am not a top end PRO for sure but I defo understand the nuances of Python flight.

Just an update on the situation of ads:

Any swarmer can basically keep an ads away except for 10 seconds every minute roughly, factoring 2 skilled complex afterburner getaways.

Any 2 swarmers with adv swarms can effectively kill an ADS 100% of the time.

Any swarmer combined with a forgegun/collision/tank/turret/plasma can effectively kill an ADS 100% of the time.


In the matches i have been experimenting with both the incubus and the python, every match has numerous people with skilled swarm launchers, as soon as more than 1 person fires at me, the swarms catch up and kill me, even running away at full speed with a complex afterburner. IDK if this is balance or what you intended, just letting you know what is possible with a proto swarm launcher that costs 28 K isk in comparison to a 380k ADS.

Yeah, didn't mean to demean you or anything. Hopefully someone out there finds it useful.

You don't have to pure fly-by strafing runs. Just fly by, if you see someone, orbit for a sec and then fly off after they're dead. This is what I think Rattati had envisioned for ADSs. In the past, people would just hover over where the enemy was and AB away whenever they took damage. Now, pilots need to be on their toes and more tactical, catch their enemies by surprise and other things.

And yeah, I'd love more variants in missiles (and other turrets as well). This could really solve the problems with meshing different weapon systems with different vehicles and game styles:

Think of an accelerated missile launcher that has high direct damage and speed and longer range but low splash damage and radius. It would make a perfect anti-air type missile. Then you could have a fragmented missile with more splash area but slightly less damage both direct and splash for anti-infantry.

Blasters could have a med-short range, tight dispersion, high RoF, low-ish damage variant for ground vehicles and a higher damage, lower RoF, larger dispersion, med-long range variant for dropships.

I think we should also establish a few rules of thumb

Small Turrets

Blaster: Anti-Infantry
Railgun: Anti-Vehicle
Missiles: Dual Purpose

Current Best to Worst by Type

Anti Infantry
Pilot: Missiles, Blaster, Rails
Sidegunner - Dropship: Blaster, Missile, Rails
Sidegunner - ADS:Blaster, Missile, Rails

Anti Air
Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster
Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster
Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster

Anti Vehicle
Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster
Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster
Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster

Or something along those lines, to see if there are holes/unintended inefficiencies.

Feel free to edit this, or expand, this is just to get the discussion going, please don't go off the rails because of my selections.

idk if the missile is too good...

i don't really think so even though i mainly use rail for anti-infantry and anti-vehicle on my incubus.

The missile has hard time against shield vehicles, and at the end of the day an anti infantry splash turret is required. A proto swarmer can down an ads in roughly the same time as the ADS spotting him, aiming and firing 3 shots.