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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8214	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:18:00 - [1] - Quote Pilots and anti-Pilots some numbers are in. Overall it seems that we successfully toned down the Assault Dropship power, and buffed the Dropship power. Looking at dropships compared to other vehicles, we are fairly happy with how the Python is playing out right now. There is a good solid spike of efficiency for the Small Blaster as well, correlating with the Grimsnes taking a leap upwards. The Incubus is still very powerful but not as powerful as the Python. The Myron is just not very good at all, and nothing changed with the increased EHP/PG/CAP and Turret changes. Let's explore together simple ways to tweak these two. Personally, not a fan of the rapid fire railgun turrets, please keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that the ROF on railLAV's was reduced on purpose, due to infantry sniping. Maybe a combination of increasing the Incubus bonus to ROF slightly, or simply removing the 70% rail turret inefficiency against vehicles and then increasing chargeup time rather than decreasing ROF to balance? Or heat? On the Myron/Grimsnes, someone advocated more maneuverability without increased speed, sounds like a fine idea. Experienced Myron pilots, what about it's fitting style or bonuses makes it so much worse than the Python. (A similar question but off topic, the Gunnlogi is quite less efficient than the Madrugar, bonus points to explain why) Appreciate the feedback "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Crimson ShieId Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 959	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:28:00 - [2] - Quote Just coming in for the tank bit as I don't pilot dropships beyond militia. The answer is simple though, the fact that the Madruger has a constant rep rate versus a Gunlogi, which takes time for its' shields to begin recharging is what makes the Maddies more effective. An example that could be used to clarify this would involve a Min scout with proto knives. Now, against a Maddy with, say... a single complex heavy repair unit, the knives might be able to outdamage the reps, but even if he can squeeze off those slashes perfectly, it's going to take him awhile to chip away at the tanks' health, even if it isn't moving at all. A Gunlogi on the other hand would only take a few moments, because the shields have a recharge delay and therefore the tank doesn't get its' health back as long as the scout keeps slashing away. I personally prefer Gunlogis and Sicas over Somas and Maddies due to the maneuverability and the way the modules work, but the vast majority of players will stick to armor tanks due to that single factor of having constant health regen, even if it is a tad slower. Nova Knives are best sidearm.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8214	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:30:00 - [3] - Quote I think we should also establish a few rules of thumb Small Turrets Blaster: Anti-Infantry Railgun: Anti-Vehicle Missiles: Dual Purpose Current Best to Worst by Type Anti Infantry Pilot: Missiles, Blaster, Rails Sidegunner - Dropship: Blaster, Missile, Rails Sidegunner - ADS:Blaster, Missile, Rails Anti Air Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster Anti Vehicle Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster Or something along those lines, to see if there are holes/unintended inefficiencies. Feel free to edit this, or expand, this is just to get the discussion going, please don't go off the rails because of my selections. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1322	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:40:00 - [4] - Quote Small rails are less effective than missiles because 1) their damage is considerably less per shot than missiles - they need to land more shots on target than missiles do to do comparable damage, this is very very hard to do and 2) they don't have splash - you must land every shot directly on target to do damage. A small splash range would help rails immensely, the other option is to slow their rate of fire a bit more and increase damage comparably. Myron underperforms for the exact same reasons that gunnlogi's do - armor vehicles rep constantly no matter what, shield vehicles taking any damage stops their reps for fairly lengthy durations of time... also it's entirely possible to lose all of your hp by bouncing up and down on the ground very quickly. Gunnlogi's underperform because they do not rep constantly - any 'actual' damage shuts off their tank. If it were possible to do in game, I'd suggest making all shields rep x value every y seconds inherently (say, 450 shields every 3.5 seconds) with modules that can either increase the x value or reduce the y value - this is in no way true to eve, where shields passively repair constantly and their reps get stronger up until 33% where tank is 'broken' and shield boosters repair decent amounts very quickly but at extreme capacitor costs). The current system just doesn't work - because armor does regenerative tanking better. Armor in eve doesn't have passive repairs, it has to be activated and it has long cycle times (repairing at the end of a cycle) but has reasonably high rep values, most importantly their repairing is extremely capacitor efficient. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
CamClarke 0uter.Heaven 144	Posted - 2014.09.28 09:45:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati, this is slightly off-topic but related, is there any chance you could adjust how hard you need to press L1 for full thrust? I noticed you (or someone, anyway) enabled the pressure differential sensitivity on dropship thrust, which has been a source of complaints of "sluggishness". Right now it feels like I have to really dig in there now which feels awkward when it used to only take a light touch. Pythons are otherwise doing okay still...I guess...when they're completely unopposed except by one MLT swarmer.
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 225	Posted - 2014.09.28 10:02:00 - [6] - Quote The gunnlogi still can't aim as low as the madrugar, please fix that. Why Madrugars are better, well the madrugar can have a fuel injector and a scanner, while still utilizing all of their low slots for their primary armour modules, on the other hand the gunnlogi after fitting the primary shield modules on the high slots cannot fit anything they can utilize on the low slots. Also, madrugars can already have 200 HP/s repair without any delay (as well as have a hardener or armour plate), while the shield tanks have to wait for that delay, which can be crucial. Proud member of Glitched Connection
Derrith Erador 2750	Posted - 2014.09.28 11:47:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pilots and anti-Pilots some numbers are in. Overall it seems that we successfully toned down the Assault Dropship power, and buffed the Dropship power. Looking at dropships compared to other vehicles, we are fairly happy with how the Python is playing out right now. There is a good solid spike of efficiency for the Small Blaster as well, correlating with the Grimsnes taking a leap upwards. The Incubus is still very powerful but not as powerful as the Python. The Myron is just not very good at all, and nothing changed with the increased EHP/PG/CAP and Turret changes. Let's explore together simple ways to tweak these two. Personally, not a fan of the rapid fire railgun turrets, please keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that the ROF on railLAV's was reduced on purpose, due to infantry sniping. Maybe a combination of increasing the Incubus bonus to ROF slightly, or simply removing the 70% rail turret inefficiency against vehicles and then increasing chargeup time rather than decreasing ROF to balance? Or heat? On the Myron/Grimsnes, someone advocated more maneuverability without increased speed, sounds like a fine idea. Experienced Myron pilots, what about it's fitting style or bonuses makes it so much worse than the Python. (A similar question but off topic, the Gunnlogi is quite less efficient than the Madrugar, bonus points to explain why) Appreciate the feedback My findings on the Python: 1) The ROF bonus given to us is still, IMO, negligible compared to the raw ROF. ROF is as follows: 1.20= Raw Rate of Fire 1.20-.18= Rate of Fire bonus on Python I'll stand by what I said before that the ROF is unnoticeable. I find that the benefits around the incubus are better than python with the current ROF. 2) Findings on Incubus: That thing got mauled hardcore. The ROF is the one thing that kept that thing as dangerous as it was. You said you weren't a fan of rapid fire incubus, but that's the only way I saw that thing being a threat to me. In order to make it a threat again, I'd say improve all three above aspects you proposed. I'm afraid I've become an ADS purist, and absolutely refuse to fly grimsnes and Myron, so I cannot offer any useful insight. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 121	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:16:00 - [8] - Quote I agree with previous posts: Myron have to 'attack' and defend both with high slots. Low slots are useless for that ship, especially when you removed overdrives (I had to use it in my old Python fits pre 1.7) So let's view my Grimsnes fit: High Slots: 1x Active Scanner or 1xMCRU (for team assist) 1x Afterburner (as defensive module to avoid damage) Low slots: 4 x Armor Repairers (to stand for low DPS and returning in battle faster when took heavy damage) Compare to Myron: High slots 1 x Afterburner (shield dropships have to avoid damage even harder, because they lesser tanked) 1 x Active Scanner or 1xMCRU (for gaining WP) 2 x (Tanking modules) Low slots: Armor modules? - they are useless, because armor plates slow down Myron. Also Myron havs low base armor HP. CPU Enhancers? - Myron have more CPU than Grimsnes Damage Control Units? - I do not fit turrets to Myron to save CPU/PG. Also, random blueberries are useless in most cases. PG modules? - maybe, but this is not an attack/defense module. Most turret upgrades are not applicable to my playstyle without turrets, so I do not fit it too. As summary, I say that Myron need afterburner just as armor dropships, but this -1 high slot weakens it much more. Maybe you should move Active Scanner and/or MCRU to low slots? Also, I would like to mention that differentiating swarms with fast/weak and slow/strong will be cool idea in general, as buffing swarms hurts pilots stronger, than tankers. It also makes more choices for players as well as new branching for learning curve. <[^_^]>
Alexia Hale Volus Industries 0	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:39:00 - [9] - Quote I used to fly a Myron pre 1.7, but I stopped once the passive torque modules were removed from the market (Overdrives I think). On the rare occasion I actually brought in a ship post 1.7 I used a python or incubus because of how much more responsive they were to fly. I'm pretty terrible with the pilot mounted gun, but I still preferred the python for when I had a gunner because of how much easier it was to maneuver around obstacles. Pre 1.7 I was too broke to bring in pythons more than on rare occasions, so I stuck with the Myron. I lost enough isk back then, so I ran ground 1.7 and on. I do gun fairly often now, and I find the grimsnes the most pleasant for it. Its a very stable platform to shoot from compared to caldari ships. Gallente ships do take a bit longer to shift momentum, but they have the benefits of constant reps and they don't need to give up primary tank to fit an afterburner. I'd suggest giving the caldari ships a small turret rotation speed bonus. It would help the gunner keep the gun from colliding with the drop ship when turning, and make strafing runs a bit easier for the gunner. They need to have ways to capitalize on their superior handling compared to gallente ships (especially when it makes aiming a bit more jarring for the gunner). Bringing back overdrives and shield recharger modules would also be a nice tweak to shield vehicles, but I don't know if that can be done server side. I still have a few overdrives in my assets though. I prefer to use missiles as the gunner because I can easily see their trail and adjust my next shot accordingly. The splash is needed to take out equipment, too. Considering many pesky areas can only be reached by ship a way to take out equipment in a timely fashion is important(trying to do so with a rail was hard even when it had splash). Rails just feel wonky/unreliable as to where they hit compared to where the reticule is (reminds me of my love/hate relationship I've had with my shotgun since I started in uprising 1.1). They are handy in dogfights at least since missiles aren't the most accurate while the pilot is taking evasive maneuvers (taking into account distance to the target, predicting how they will move, and how my pilot will move). I've only spent a few matches with the blasters, but I'm enjoying them. Still getting used to them, but I've had at least moderate success gunning from a saga-ii, sica, and grimsnes. Small blasters make me really miss heat sinks Seems like I'm constantly overheating or reloading, but I'll get better at managing heat build up and clip size as I use it more. The spare ammo bonus is much appreciated! TL;DR Give caldari ships a turret rotation speed buff for the gunners. Either bring back overdrives or give the Myron better acceleration/thrust. Gallente ships are more stable to gun from and have constant regen. Caldari ships need to capitalize on their better maneuverability.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3162	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:42:00 - [10] - Quote For the Grimsnes and Myron I believe the issue is number chasing, although armor is less resilient to AV Grimsnes has higher numbers and therefore most will assume it is better. Of course there is another idea I have, and that is that the Grimsnes has higher top speed than a Myron so coupled with a AB you can escape much quicker on a Grimsnes than on a Myron. The incubus has just a tiny dot as a reticle, it is difficult to aim with it not impossible specially if your aiming at a tank but a better reticle would help. As for the Madrugar it is number chasing + AA so it will score more points quicker before it is destroyed than a rail tank, especially now that a rail tank has little to no AA capabilities. I personally do not use Madrugars at all only Gunnlogis to me Madrugars are way to slow rotating and in a map with lots of AV it is a waste of ISK because escaping is difficult, for me at least. Of course now we are seeing the rise of Missile launchers on Gunnlogis taking up the role of mid range AV and close range AA very efficiently. The reason we don't see more of these is due to the high SP cost of using missile launchers, maybe reducing the SP requirement and we might see more Gunnlogis in the field. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 755	Posted - 2014.09.28 12:48:00 - [11] - Quote In the case of the Myron I think we need some more time to discover what we can do with it now. I went through about 10 Myrons just yesterday trying different stuff. I think there's a way to make it work somehow, but I'm not quite sure yet. Some random unfinished thoughts: - The Grimsnes doesn't have to sacrifice tank for the AB or mCRU (important for pubs). 6.5k hp passive + 95 hp/s reps + cpx AB + ADV turrets + CRU is a very good package. - The Myron has the upper hand on regeneration, but it's tough to put that into action when all threats on the battlefield are high in alpha damage. It can barely even tank three volleys from a damage amped wiyrkomi SL. - There's something wrong with shield extenders: If I fit a Myron and a Grimsnes both with two cpx PG units then the Grimsnes has two slots left for tank and the Myron has 4 slots left. When I'm done twidling around the Grimsnes has more tank than the Myron. What went wrong? - Shield regen is patently difficult to put into practice. I made some good experiences with a quadruple cpx shield-booster fitting. That fit shrugs off non-assault forgeguns and comes out standing even against assault variants. Then a damage amped railgun comes along and you're dead in two seconds (three shots) while the Grimsnes is afterburning to safety. - Shield hardeners are awesome while they are active, but their cooldown is crippling. If you want to be useful you have to cycle at least two of them. In that case your ability to tank high-alpha damage is on par with a armor DS, except that your ship is much harder to fly and has a downtime of 15 seconds once a minute. Generally, due to the fact that a railgun could 3 shot you any time during the match dropships are pretty much incompatible with the waves of opportunity design. If somebody called out targets via voicecoms a pilot could activate a hardener, kill two guys and spend the next 45 seconds waiting for the cooldown to end, but then he would be much more useful if he had been on the ground together with the person who called the target. If there was a vehicle module hotfix I'd like to see shield hardeners tuned towards where armor hardeners are and then give more raw hp to shield extenders. Alternatively large rails could have their DPS-curve flattened. I think in a HAV-fight a rail only applies it's long-term DPS anyway since it has to manage heat. The only thing that actually gets killed by the rail's 4 shot DPS-burst is the dropship, I think. At least to me the possibility of a damage amped large rail showing upany time during a match puts a lot of pressure towards high passive hp fits + AB, which the Myron can't do unless you shield harden, which makes you completely useless ~75% of the match.
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 121	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:13:00 - [12] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: - The Myron has the upper hand on regeneration, but it's tough to put that into action when all threats on the battlefield are high in alpha damage. It can barely even tank three volleys from a damage amped wiyrkomi SL. I totally agree, the biggest threat for DS is forgeguns, which renders shield drophips weaker by default in tanking it, even with buffed base shield HP. Forges have high alpha + increased damage profile against shields, and low base armor of Myron greately decreases it surivability. Grimsnes tanking is much better - it has decreased damage profile against forgeguns and high enough base armor HP to tank swarms. <[^_^]>
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 121	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:14:00 - [13] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: - The Myron has the upper hand on regeneration, but it's tough to put that into action when all threats on the battlefield are high in alpha damage. It can barely even tank three volleys from a damage amped wiyrkomi SL. I totally agree, the biggest threat for DS is forgeguns, which renders shield drophips weaker by default in tanking it, even with buffed base shield HP. Forges have high alpha + increased damage profile against shields, and low base armor of Myron greately decreases it surivability. Grimsnes tanking much better - it has decreased damage profile against forgeguns and high enough base armor HP to tank swarms. <[^_^]>
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 3dge of D4rkness. 0	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:29:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Looking at dropships compared to other vehicles, we are fairly happy with how the Python is playing out right now. The Incubus is still very powerful but not as powerful as the Python. It's been asked before and not been answered: what is the purpose of the ADS and each of the two we currently have? Is it intended to be a ground attack craft with limited transport capability, or a transport with slightly increased offensive power? If it is a transport primarily, then the SP costs for the various skills are far too high: 2.48m SP for a 15% ROF increase is pretty worthless - you're much better off just using a standard dropship, which is now tougher (which is fine) so can actually feasible insert/extract squads. If it is a ground attack craft primarily, then the bonuses are fairly weak, considering you have previously described wanting ADSs to be somewhat hit-and-run: with the ROF bonus as is, the running is doable but the hitting is sketchy at best. This is the sort of thing that needs to be determined or the ADS will forever float in a limbo: what role is the ADS supposed to perform on (above) the field? CCP Rattati wrote: Personally, not a fan of the rapid fire railgun turrets, please keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that the ROF on railLAV's was reduced on purpose, due to infantry sniping. Maybe a combination of increasing the Incubus bonus to ROF slightly, or simply removing the 70% rail turret inefficiency against vehicles and then increasing chargeup time rather than decreasing ROF to balance? Or heat? It was my understanding that the hit efficacies had been changed already: is that not so? Also, have you found what is causing the Incubus's bonus to apply incorrectly? If your concern for rapid fire railguns is that they are too effective against infantry, would the Incubus not be fine for an increased ROF, considering how difficult it is to hit infantry in an ADS? If not ROF, as presumably a damage bonus would also be out, then what effectiveness bonus would be useful? Heat build-up? Cool down speed? Those are still fairly lame for such a large SP sink. Returning to my first point: what is the intended role of the Incubus? CCP Rattati wrote: The Myron is just not very good at all, and nothing changed with the increased EHP/PG/CAP and Turret changes. On the Myron/Grimsnes, someone advocated more maneuverability without increased speed, sounds like a fine idea. Experienced Myron pilots, what about it's fitting style or bonuses makes it so much worse than the Python. Others have pointed out the glaring weakness of the Myron: all the good utility modules are in the high slots, which the Myron needs for tanking modules. This is the same issue with dropsuits and low slots having the vast majority of utility modules. CCP Rattati wrote: (A similar question but off topic, the Gunnlogi is quite less efficient than the Madrugar, bonus points to explain why) As others have said, shield regen is broken by relatively small hits, making the Gunnlogi (and also the Myron and Python) much less sustainable. Personally, I'd suggest that shield regen delays be greatly reduced but also cut the recharge rates to match and either entirely remove or vastly increase the regen-halting benchmark.
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 3dge of D4rkness. 0	Posted - 2014.09.28 13:38:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I think we should also establish a few rules of thumb Quick clarification: are these what you want them to be, or are these what your statistics say they are? CCP Rattati wrote: Anti Air Pilot: Missiles, Rails, Blaster Sidegunner - Dropship: Rails, Missile, Blaster Sidegunner - ADS: Rails, Missile, Blaster The main reason I ask is because of the highlighted section: pilot missiles are reasonable in an AA capacity (as befits the dual purpose role) but rails are far more reliable due to much greater travel speed and generally better application of damage. I don't consider this to be unreasonable, although the bugged Incubus makes this currently untenable due to the lower applicable damage than a regular DS's rails.
TH1EFOFSOuLS Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:17:00 - [16] - Quote Listen to me rattai. The Myron is fine I prefer it over my grim it is a beast dropship for transport and co-op gunning and I love the way it handles. People don't like the Myron because they don't have their fittings into vehicles like the vehicle guys do. If your going to do anything to the Myron to help the people that cant spec into vehicles because they want to go into another proto just buff EHP or CPU PG that is it. I am perfectly happy with my Myron and grim set up and if I hear anymore talk about it changing im going to show you just how well these things do in the hands of people who actually speced into them.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2134	Posted - 2014.09.28 14:25:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pilots and anti-Pilots some numbers are in. Overall it seems that we successfully toned down the Assault Dropship power, and buffed the Dropship power. Looking at dropships compared to other vehicles, we are fairly happy with how the Python is playing out right now. There is a good solid spike of efficiency for the Small Blaster as well, correlating with the Grimsnes taking a leap upwards. The Incubus is still very powerful but not as powerful as the Python. The Myron is just not very good at all, and nothing changed with the increased EHP/PG/CAP and Turret changes. Let's explore together simple ways to tweak these two. Personally, not a fan of the rapid fire railgun turrets, please keep that in mind. Also keep in mind that the ROF on railLAV's was reduced on purpose, due to infantry sniping. Maybe a combination of increasing the Incubus bonus to ROF slightly, or simply removing the 70% rail turret inefficiency against vehicles and then increasing chargeup time rather than decreasing ROF to balance? Or heat? On the Myron/Grimsnes, someone advocated more maneuverability without increased speed, sounds like a fine idea. Experienced Myron pilots, what about it's fitting style or bonuses makes it so much worse than the Python. (A similar question but off topic, the Gunnlogi is quite less efficient than the Madrugar, bonus points to explain why) Appreciate the feedback How is the Gunnlogi less efficient than the Maddy? Because it has too much downtime with cooldown. There's no interruption to armor rep, yet you need 2 shield hardeners active to keep your shield up against ADV swarms. And also, you changed the railgun damage profile to do less to shields, and more to armor. That's another leg up the G'logi has against the Maddy. Plus with the fitting requirements, it's much easier to fit 2 damage mods on a G'logi, possibly complex damage mods at that, so you get near 40% extra damage considering stacking penalties. CPU and PG expansion mods are lot slot mods, so you can sacrifice an armor rep, plate or hardener to fit those complex damage mods plus a hardener. Overall, the Gunnlogi is far, far superior for destroying all vehicles over the Madrugar. The only problem is it's aforementioned down time. Do you fly dropships at all? Have you spent enough time to learn how to fly an ADS before Delta, learning how to maneuver them to get the best angle? Going further, what's their intended role now? I'd rather have the old fire rate for the Python back with half the missile damage across all tiers. I prefer a faster fire rate over more damage. It allows for more margin of error, especially when dealing with AV infantry. The Python is pretty squishy, especially if there's any reds on the field with at least ADV forge guns. You could have someone who's surprisingly good at doing no-math calculations with forge projectile travel time and ship flying speed and vector using just a STD level breach forge, and deny a 300m half sphere to all dropships in the sky. And that's just one person. Couple it with just one person using swarms, able to get off 2 volleys, and that's a dead ship. It's now next to impossible to escape swarms, unless you have boots on the ground to tell you when to go away, because that's the only way to escape the third volley. They still go around corners fairly well too. Also, rendering still sucks. At 200m, nothing appears. At 100, you're lucky if some stuff appears. Even at 50 or 75m, half the time they'll render, half the time they won't. And there's also still invisible swarms. The Incubus can't kick out enough DPS to effective deal with vehicles anymore. Plus, actually having the Gal ADS skill greatly hinders the amount of rounds you can fire, which reduces effective DPS. Is the ADS meant for quick transport? We had that with the Logi dropships. Problem was, they flew like bricks. Very slow and too little maneuverability. They also had a built-in MCRU, which didn't get any sort of passive bonus to the respawn time. If you want quick transport, bring those back with increased maneuverability, and make the passive bonus for quicker spawning. You could give them 4/2 or 2/4, increased base HP, 6 passenger slots, but no turrets. Vehicles constantly get pushed aside so infantry can get appeased. You could spend some time getting into squads with pilots to hear what we have to say. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2171	Posted - 2014.09.28 15:35:00 - [18] - Quote From my other thread: remove/tone down the hardener animation on the side turrets (this goes for all vehicles). It severely obscures the view of the gunner. A Grimsness can be buffer/rep-tanked with out hardeners, so this may be the reason for the increase Grimsness use over the Myron as the Myron is almost forced to use a hardener to achieve decent ehp values. Honestly, other than that and the agility buff I asked for, they're really good. The can have more instantaneous ehp than any DS with mods active (as shield vehicles should be), as the hardener/booster combo works very well too. Honestly, I think people in the game just have a hard-on for armor vehicles for some reason (I don't like any of them, they're slow and ugly). Dust was real! I was there!
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2172	Posted - 2014.09.28 15:47:00 - [19] - Quote Also, reiterating my ideas for mCRUs (+1 new one): The new one: remove the module entirely and make it an innate mod to the STD DSs (and LDSs if they're reintroduced). The fitting on them is too much. Even if you removed the PG/CPU entirely, it's not worth sacrificing, in the Myron's case, 1/4 of all its potential defensive slots. Also, I'm really against using the mod on things like tanks and LAVs. I think this would be the best path, but ONLY if the next two recommendations are met as wellGÇª Toggle-ability. I don't always want blueberries spawning and hanging out in my DS. Until I get the ability to kick them out and/or they can tell me where they want to go, I need a way to prevent them from getting in in the first place. Make it turn on and off with out duration or cool down. [*]Spawn time skill bonus. Currently there's no benefit to skilling up the mCRU skill since there's no bonus or higher tiered mods. Changing the skill to -10% spawn time per level (lvl5 = 5sec, equal to the best links, balanced due because of the skill and hardware requirements) would make the mCRU a powerful logistics asset. Dust was real! I was there!
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1835	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:25:00 - [20] - Quote Going to ask again: what is the ADS intended role? We can't tell you if its performing properly or not if we don't know what its supposed to be doing. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me

Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 358	Posted - 2014.09.28 17:42:00 - [21] - Quote the dropship difference between the myron and the grimsness is mainly that you have to choose between active and passive tanking. On the grimsness you can stack plates/reps while the myron only is viable if you stack hardeners. And because hardeners are a time limited thing its difficult to manage them in a fight. Dont get me wrong shield dropships are probs the safest option if you just need to get a area and then quickly move out. Like activate 3 hardeners while moving in, drop people in there and move out with a AB. The high resistance you get will help out tremenously vs AV. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
CLONE ALPHA 001 G.L.O.R.Y Dark Taboo 35	Posted - 2014.09.28 22:57:00 - [22] - Quote i dont understand what the problem is with using 20gj rails to shoot infantry with why would you want to limit the weapon that way?
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 60	Posted - 2014.09.28 23:23:00 - [23] - Quote With the nerf to the ADS rate of fire bonus to only 3% per level it has made going to level 5 a little pointless and has brought on complaints from the pilots who did have the skill at level 5 already So now that there is only a small difference between level 5 rof and standard rof how about changing the rof bonus to a reloading bonus like maybe 5% per level "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
Halla Murr Skullbreakers 3dge of D4rkness. 2	Posted - 2014.09.29 00:11:00 - [24] - Quote Gabriel Ceja wrote: With the nerf to the ADS rate of fire bonus to only 3% per level it has made going to level 5 a little pointless and has brought on complaints from the pilots who did have the skill at level 5 already So now that there is only a small difference between level 5 rof and standard rof how about changing the rof bonus to a reloading bonus like maybe 5% per level Not intending to offend, but that suggestion in no way helps the ADS perform strafing runs, which is something Rattati has said that ADSs should be doing. ROF is *the* bonus for that. A 6% bonus would be a very solid middle ground: (PRO Turrets) Missiles: STD: ROF 50; 0.83 missiles/second; DPS (Splash) 297.91 3%: ROF 57.5; 0.958 missiles/second; DPS 342.6 6%: ROF 65; 1.083 missiles/second; DPS 387.29 Railguns: STD: ROF 92; 1.53 shots/second; DPS 665.77 3%: ROF 105.8; 1.763 shots/second; DPS 765.6 6%: ROF 119.6; 1.993 shots/second; DPS 865.5 Blaster: STD: ROF 1200; 20 shots/second; DPS 1144 3%: ROF 1380; 23 shots/second; DPS 1315.6 6%: ROF 1560; 26 shots/second; DPS 1487.2 This would actually be a somewhat meaningful increase. An alternative suggestion would be to scrap the ROF bonus entirely and look at alternative methods of increase the effectiveness of an ADS. Here's an idea from earlier, based on the scout bonus: 3/5% fitting reduction/level for shield/armour hardeners. 3/4% bonus resistance/level to shield/armour hardeners. What would this do: - increase the resilience of an ADS during the uptime of a hardener; - reduce total buffer tank by encouraging hardener fits; - not increase the direct killing power of the small turrets; - allow an ADS to maintain a short period of resilience under fire in which to insert/extract infantry or suppress/kill enemies before being forced to retreat on cool down. Potential downside could potentially make triple hardener fits OP like 1.7, though could the skill include an inbuilt penalty to cool down for the same module? So the module gets +X resistance bonus but simultaneously gets a +Y% increase to cool down duration as the ADS 'strains the capacitor' or something? Anyway, that's a sideways thought I figured would EB worth throwing out there.
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 60	Posted - 2014.09.29 01:14:00 - [25] - Quote Halla Murr wrote: Gabriel Ceja wrote: With the nerf to the ADS rate of fire bonus to only 3% per level it has made going to level 5 a little pointless and has brought on complaints from the pilots who did have the skill at level 5 already So now that there is only a small difference between level 5 rof and standard rof how about changing the rof bonus to a reloading bonus like maybe 5% per level Not intending to offend, but that suggestion in no way helps the ADS perform strafing runs, which is something Rattati has said that ADSs should be doing. ROF is *the* bonus for that. A 6% bonus would be a very solid middle ground: (PRO Turrets) Missiles: STD: ROF 50; 0.83 missiles/second; DPS (Splash) 297.91 3%: ROF 57.5; 0.958 missiles/second; DPS 342.6 6%: ROF 65; 1.083 missiles/second; DPS 387.29 Railguns: STD: ROF 92; 1.53 shots/second; DPS 665.77 3%: ROF 105.8; 1.763 shots/second; DPS 765.6 6%: ROF 119.6; 1.993 shots/second; DPS 865.5 Blaster: STD: ROF 1200; 20 shots/second; DPS 1144 3%: ROF 1380; 23 shots/second; DPS 1315.6 6%: ROF 1560; 26 shots/second; DPS 1487.2 This would actually be a somewhat meaningful increase. An alternative suggestion would be to scrap the ROF bonus entirely and look at alternative methods of increase the effectiveness of an ADS. Here's an idea from earlier, based on the scout bonus: 3/5% fitting reduction/level for shield/armour hardeners. 3/4% bonus resistance/level to shield/armour hardeners. What would this do: - increase the resilience of an ADS during the uptime of a hardener; - reduce total buffer tank by encouraging hardener fits; - not increase the direct killing power of the small turrets; - allow an ADS to maintain a short period of resilience under fire in which to insert/extract infantry or suppress/kill enemies before being forced to retreat on cool down. Potential downside could potentially make triple hardener fits OP like 1.7, though could the skill include an inbuilt penalty to cool down for the same module? So the module gets +X resistance bonus but simultaneously gets a +Y% increase to cool down duration as the ADS 'strains the capacitor' or something? Anyway, that's a sideways thought I figured would EB worth throwing out there. Don't worry no offense taken as you have made some valid points and feedback like this is how we help make progress. I do like that idea of the fitting reduction per level it would help out a lot since I have to use cpu/pg mod to fit 3 Proto turrets on my incubus or python "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
TH1EFOFSOuLS Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 32	Posted - 2014.09.29 03:03:00 - [26] - Quote I know I would be mad if I was someone who spent some what... 1.2 mil SP on a punk 3% increase on ROF on my ADS and didn't get a respec. I would have rather put that into small railgun fittings 5
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 122	Posted - 2014.09.29 12:28:00 - [27] - Quote I didn't make a gunship because we have ADS. But as a Logistics the gimmy outperforms for one reason in my mind. Mobile CRU is a high slot. Grimmy gets 5300+ armor, one gun, and still squeezes a CRU. Myron, I didn't even finish the fit. Turrets, I'm liking where blaster is atm. Still feels short range for DS use but meh, at least it kills now. Missiles are missiles. Rails are the sticky part. Some people are just dead eyes. And keeping them from using it on infantry will mean nerfing it till its useless. Buff it and it slays vehicles in seconds. However atm they are way broken. Large 80gj can pump out 5 I think before OH, small gets 4-5 it seems. This is wrong. Maybe lower dmg and heat? I honestly don't know, like I said, sticky. Maddy can flip a gunny null perspiration. That's kinda broken. High slots are open to things like turbo, cru, scanners, dual tanking, and dmg mods for maddy. Whereas the gunny gets to pick from dual tank, or more bullets... My .02isk "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2194	Posted - 2014.09.29 13:40:00 - [28] - Quote It looks like a lot of people, and I agree with them, say that a lack of useful low slot modules is affecting the Myron and Gunnlogi. The only useful modules are PG/CPU extenders, but not all of my Gunnlogi fits fill both slots with fitting extenders (sorry, I don't fly Myrons). Ammo expansion units are a post-combat luxury. I'd like to see the return of chassis modules (inertia stabilizers, overdrives, nanofiber structures...) that we can fit in the lows for better combat abilities. The problem as I see it is that Madrugars can utilize their high slots for combat purposes (fuel injector and damage amp) whereas the Gunnlogi can't utilize it's low slots for combat purposes. Though like the first reply, I also prefer Gunnlogi over Madrugar for maneuverability. I also agree with them on passive recharge rates for armor and shield, where Madrugars can get a higher constant regen than Gunnlogis whose regen can be interrupted. This is a tricky subject though and I prefer baby steps such as reintroducing the chassis modules first. Then if needed, make the shield depleted recharge delay skill apply to regular delay as well. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2179	Posted - 2014.09.29 14:48:00 - [29] - Quote Another thing to consider as to why armor vehicles are so much better than shields is the benefit of defensive skills The limiting factor for fitting for both armor and shield is PG. Rarely do I need a CPU mod and I only need my lvl4 shield fitting for a few fits among all the vehicles in the game. Additionally, because the PG for armor mods is significantly greater than the CPU of shield, the get the same percent but more reduction. The repair boosters are also horribly skewed to benefit armor vehicles. The armor repair is already good, and adding 25% on top of that is a huge benefit. The shield skill is pretty much worthless for a shield vehicle. It only benefits depleted shield delay, which means you're pretty much dead anyway, if not then you're not in any danger anyway so 2-3 fewer sec isn't really much use. Even if it was changed to include a bonus to regular shield regen time, you'll still need to be away from any significant danger for an extended time. Not only is it pretty worthless for shield vehicles, but it benefits armor more because it brings back their shield buffer back quicker, and because their delay is longer, they get more benefit. Lastly, and I never understood why this was brought in, is the armor composition skill. For some reason, this was introduced in HF Bravo with no discussion or mention. It gives a huge 50% reduction to the speed penalty of armor plates, their only penalty. This huge benefit, and yet shield get nothing. It is worth considering considering changing shield and armor skill bonuses, and even introducing another shield skill. Dust was real! I was there!
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2014.09.29 15:44:00 - [30] - Quote Be careful when buffing the Myron, I don't understand the numbers you got considering how much tank they can have. I wouldn't say no to more maneuverability, but mine has become very hard to kill. A buff I would find acceptable: Armor repair Vehicles have a skill to boost the EFFECTIVENESS of armor repair, give shields a skill to boost the effectiveness of Shield Boosters, to match. This would really make my day. Make the Shield Hardener effect clip out on the turret so the gunner doesn't see that stuff. It causes HEAVY visual lag close up like that and makes shots go way off target. This probably can't be done in a hotfix though :( Fix the bugs regarding turret PG CPU not having been implemented as you intended in Delta (goes without saying, I'm sure you're already on that one)



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