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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
755
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Posted - 2014.09.28 12:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
In the case of the Myron I think we need some more time to discover what we can do with it now.
I went through about 10 Myrons just yesterday trying different stuff. I think there's a way to make it work somehow, but I'm not quite sure yet.
Some random unfinished thoughts:
- The Grimsnes doesn't have to sacrifice tank for the AB or mCRU (important for pubs). 6.5k hp passive + 95 hp/s reps + cpx AB + ADV turrets + CRU is a very good package.
- The Myron has the upper hand on regeneration, but it's tough to put that into action when *all* threats on the battlefield are high in alpha damage. It can barely even tank three volleys from a damage amped wiyrkomi SL.
- There's something wrong with shield extenders:
If I fit a Myron and a Grimsnes both with two cpx PG units then the Grimsnes has two slots left for tank and the Myron has 4 slots left. When I'm done twidling around the Grimsnes has more tank than the Myron. What went wrong?
- Shield regen is patently difficult to put into practice. I made some good experiences with a quadruple cpx shield-booster fitting. That fit shrugs off non-assault forgeguns and comes out standing even against assault variants. Then a damage amped railgun comes along and you're dead in two seconds (three shots) while the Grimsnes is afterburning to safety.
- Shield hardeners are awesome while they are active, but their cooldown is crippling. If you want to be useful you have to cycle at least two of them. In that case your ability to tank high-alpha damage is on par with a armor DS, except that your ship is much harder to fly and has a downtime of 15 seconds once a minute.
Generally, due to the fact that a railgun could 3 shot you any time during the match dropships are pretty much incompatible with the waves of opportunity design. If somebody called out targets via voicecoms a pilot could activate a hardener, kill two guys and spend the next 45 seconds waiting for the cooldown to end, but then he would be much more useful if he had been on the ground together with the person who called the target.
If there was a vehicle module hotfix I'd like to see shield hardeners tuned towards where armor hardeners are and then give more raw hp to shield extenders.
Alternatively large rails could have their DPS-curve flattened. I think in a HAV-fight a rail only applies it's long-term DPS anyway since it has to manage heat. The only thing that actually gets killed by the rail's 4 shot DPS-burst is the dropship, I think. At least to me the possibility of a damage amped large rail showing upany time during a match puts a lot of pressure towards high passive hp fits + AB, which the Myron can't do unless you shield harden, which makes you completely useless ~75% of the match. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
757
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 20:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Here are two very basic avenues out of the situation right now:
A. Make active shield tanking possible:
Ideas: Buff shield boosters, disable their ability to start native regen
(All active tanking is done through the boosters themselves, maybe split their effect into smaller cycles so there's a chance of bursting through their effect. Disabling the native regen activation removes any possible bugs associated with that feature.)
B. Make passive shield tanking possible:
Ideas: Align native hp with armor vehicles, align shield extenders with armor mods, align shield hardeners with armor hardeners
(A passive shield fit should get the same hp a passive armor fit that regens in the same amount of time. Their playstyles will still be different since shield vehicles don't regen in combat.)
Out of curiosity:
In Eve Online, what does a shield tank look like and which low slot modules are used for passive and active tanks?
(When I tried Eve for 6 months, I only ever delved into armor tank theory.) |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
757
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for that. I'm fairly certain that adopting Eve-style fitting philosophy in the mid- to long-term is going to improve the situation. Maybe it isn't for the short-term though. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
759
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Here's my pubbie Grimsnes for reference:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/8258
(mCRU, cpx AB, cpx repper, 2x pro turret, 6.5k hp passive)
I have shield fitting skills maxed, but I don't have a competitive Myron fit. 
The only fit I made that can tank 4 shots from an IAFG (happens almost every match these days) is this (quadruple cpx light shield booster fit).
Also for reference, I haven't yet encountered an ADS that would've been able to destroy my Grimsnes. Many ADS actually have to flee from my mighty blueberry-gunners (the ones that don't know why we're hovering 15 meters from a red objective for two minutes).
As such I recommend that the base stats of small railguns should only be buffed with a lot of care. I'd prefer the Incubus skill to grant a straight damage buff to blasters and rails and the python skill to grant a splash radius buff.
As it stands an ADV railgun doesn't have enough oomph to kill a 4.5k Grimsnes dropship without overheating (I think it's about 3k damage until overheat). On the other hand I don't think it should be able to. The advantage of being in a dropship is not that you have ton's of DPS but that you can pummel your victim with impunity until your hard counter comes along. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
776
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Posted - 2014.10.18 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I have shield fitting skills maxed, but I don't have a competitive Myron fit. After I finished swooning over the purple goodness I recently acquired I found some time to do further NDS research. I tried to come up with a fitting that would come as close as possible to my pubbie-Grimsnes. The result of my research is this Myron fitting:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/8259
Contains: (in case the link doesn't work)
1x std AB
1x cpx shield booster
1x cpx heavy shield extender
1x mCRU
2x cpx PG unit
2x std missile turret
Including the shield booster that makes for 6010 raw hp.
My still current Grimsnes fitting (link) has 6.5k raw hp.
Using the efficiencies of rail- and forgeguns we get 6422 ehp for the Myron and 6160 ehp for the Grimsnes. The situation gets better for swarms. Both fittings can regen during the attack, the Grimsnes at ~94 hp/s from the repper and the Myron at 224 hp/s from the booster. That puts them at very equal terms.
The differences between the two fittings are:
- The Myron has worse armament (STD vs PRO)
- The Myron has one more active module - which is a cause for error
- The Myron has a downtime of ~34s from the basic afterburner while the Grimsnes comes back after ~27s. On the other hand the Myron generally comes back fully regenerated while the Grimsnes might still be repping from the last engagement.
By the way, the fitting above requires perfect fitting skills for all involved modules. Yes, that includes small missile turret proficiency 5. Just like the Grimsnes fitting.
In conclusion I think the Myron could use a minor PG bump.
[Edit]
I forgot to mention - in actual gameplay it performs just as you'd expect from the numbers. It can tank a salvo from an advanced railgun and feels slightly under-armed for a Gunship. Those additional 7 seconds of downtime are aggrevating when, on the way out, you realize you just fled from a MLT swarmer - what can I say, as a pilot I'm a wuss  .
Finally a fitting that makes use of that fitting prof 5.  |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
778
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 19:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:The differences between the two fittings are:
- The Myron has worse armament (STD vs PRO)
Scrap that. More theorycrafting revealed this fitting.
Features:
- cpx AB
- mCRU
- enh heavy shield extender
- cpx light shield booster
- 2x cpx PG unit
- pro missile turret
- pro railgun
5692 raw hp, 6064 ehp against rail- and forgeguns. Shield regen between shots (after initial shield boost) not included. Again compared to the Grimsnes' 6160 ehp + reps. Against swarms the Myron does even better.
Conclusion: Between this and the fitting before the two racial NDS are completely identical when the resists of current AV and turrets are accounted for. No change required.
Disclaimer: I didn't fly this fitting yet, just came up with the concept a minute ago. For pubs I may prefer the one with more ehp but only std armament. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
785
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Posted - 2014.10.20 14:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Myron is now my go-to dropship. With the CRU it's equal in performance to a Grimsnes and without it it has two cpx shield booster that enable it to hang around much longer or tank much better. Or fit a cpx damage mod and advanced turrets to achieve better gank but equal tank.
Buff Grimsnes?  |
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