"Drive-bys"... LOL... That's a great idea considering that basically everything will only start rendering when you are very close. Most of the time you will have run past a target before it renders if you are trying to "drive-by".

And it happenend to me so many times that when enemy infantry is on uneven ground I can hardly deal damage with a missile launcher because of some bug or something screwing up damage application of splash damage so that I am forced to hover and shoot continuely at them.

"Drive-bys" against tanks that rep 200 HP/s, yeah, no.

I honestly don't get why swarms need to be more effective against ADS. They are so damn easy to use and one good swarmer is usually able to keep an ADS away, not destroying it, but making it hard for the ADS to deal substantial damage. Or even make the ADS crash into some building because it gets completely knocked around by a swarm hit in the wrong spot.

And as soon as there are 2 AV players working together the ADS is toast anyway or at least won't get close in order to not lose 500k ISK.

If it's not AV that destroys your ADS then it's those stupid assholes that ram your ADS with a militia drop ship and kill you in one hit. If it was possible to fit a militia suit to instantly kill a proto suit or to destroy a tank with a militia tank by just running into them I don't think it would take you long to fix it due to the outcry in the forums but this cheap tactic against ADS seems to be fine with you.

The simple fact that every ADS HAS TO USE AFTERBURNERS to not get constantly killed by swarmers should show you how good they already are.

How about you first fix damage indicators, improve rendering, make ramming less effective before you nerf/buff either swarms or ADS?


Sorry for the rant but this had to be said.

Im not sure I understand those charts, maybe others dont as well.

Im all for ads having a harder time, increased time away from battle AB cd increase blah blah blah. Even taking more hits . They dont need to blow up just keeping them away from everything is enough to keep me happy.

Could you explain the charts a little more? In idiot terms for me lol

Im not sure I understand those charts, maybe others dont as well.

Im all for ads having a harder time, increased time away from battle AB cd increase blah blah blah. Even taking more hits . They dont need to blow up just keeping them away from everything is enough to keep me happy.

Could you explain the charts a little more? In idiot terms for me lol

It just seems to me that some of you want to keep the status quo and refuse to listen to anything else when we all know, and most pilots admit as much privately, that the ADS is completely overpowered.

You can not hover and engage multiple targets while also being under attack by a swarm launcher but you can move away and then engage in a strafing run.

It just seems to me that some of you want to keep the status quo and refuse to listen to anything else when we all know, and most pilots admit as much privately, that the ADS is completely overpowered.

i dont understand the relationship between ADS distance and Swarm impact. some of the swarm impacts are beyond the swarm max range. how is that possible?

It just seems to me that some of you want to keep the status quo and refuse to listen to anything else when we all know, and most pilots admit as much privately, that the ADS is completely overpowered.

My main char is infantry only. My alt is ADS only. I know both sides. And I don't think either is OP or UP. ADSs are as effective as costly.

The way I understand these changes is that an invisible (not rendering) Min commando with damage modded swarms can easily destroy an ADS (e.g. a Python in this case) in 3 volleys and if the ADS pilot is not lucky enough to be further away than 90m and/or already moving away from the swarmer, he is toast.

If you think that ADSs are OP why do you then contribute to the already rampant alpha damage escalation by buffing swarms instead of tuning down the effectiveness of ADSs first? You did so by increasing the cooldown of ABs, which I support. But why don't we tune down the 10% damage and 50% ROF bonus of ADSs, thus making them less effective, first?

As an ADS pilot I always feel sucker-punched everytime I die because in most cases I did not see it coming and this is far from being fun.

And on the other side I feel no empathy at all for those idiots who can see and hear an ADS coming from miles away and still decide to move across open ground with no cover and no AV support.

Any chance you're going to look at the Forge Gun?

Right now the big issue with FG vs ADS is them easily escaping by flying up to the ceiling and max ranging the FG. Any possible way you could look into increasing the max range of the FG?

IMO the damage, charge time, etc are all fine but as soon as the ADS exceeds that max range by flying up for a few seconds it's completely impervious to the FG.

I honestly don't think that's unfair, it must have some way of surviving.

Have you tried hitting a Python when it's going Mach 4 at 200+ meters with the FG?

It's no easy feat. Also considering the fact you usually have to land anywhere between 3-5 consecutive shots on a Python while considering charge time, the ADS's flight path, and your projectile's flight time. Not as easy as Shoot and Forget like the Swarms.

And this is me using an Ishukone Assault FG with 3x Complex Mods and maxed proficiency. I can't even imagine what the blueberries using STD and ADV gear feel like.

Maneuverability and dodging shots and hiding away from line of sight is how it should survive. The FG has to be used on a heavy suit that is all but immobile. A good pilot like Derrith or Sir Snugglez could keep me busy with their 1 ADS for an entire game, and this is when I'm landing almost all my shots on them. The last shot is always what never lands because they can stay just long enough to kill some infantry and then max range me in less time than it takes me to charge a shot.

Have you tried to hit a Forge Gunner while they slam you about? An ADS has a hard time against a Forge Gunner, but the balance is actually pretty damn good: you need to land several hits (so do we, because of Sentinel resistance to blast damage); we need to continue moving to throw off your aim which does exactly the same to us; you have the advantage of cover and being much harder to identify (in general: rendering before you're within 100m is hard, and the charge only helps identify your general area) while we have the advantage of when we close to engagement range or retreat (though you still have the option of HAVs and LAVs.)

I think ADS/FG balance is pretty spot on.

Question about the first chart: why are Swarms 2/3/4 in a vertical line, unlike the second chart?

Increasing the max range of the FG wouldn't break the balance in any extreme way ...

Well, Rattati, I'll try to give you a decent review, or hopefully some useful insight. I'll confess I'm not too good at reading charts, but I think I get the gist of it. But before that, I'm going to put in a paragraph concerning why you seem so stressed with the V/AV community, so if you don't want to hear it, skip the next paragraph.

Here, to calm you down.

Anyway, the reason you're seem so screwy with this is probably (may not be right) the fact that these two communities are comparable to the Capuletes and the Montagues of Romeo and Juliet (Not sure how to spell those family names right). We're not going to get along for damn near anything. My advice is to take the proposals of the tin foil wearers from both sides, cut it in half, and you should be getting a little closer to a decent balance, and then just let him be a tard.

BACK ON TOPIC!

On the swarm speed charts. If I'm reading them right, it looks good to me, but there is a few issues, which is lack of data or responses in other areas.

I'm fairly certain that most ADS pilots are ticked about the swarm buff because they didn't read about the homing nerf. You may want to offer a little more data in that area, because to be honest, I can't offer any reasonable feedback without a little more data in that area, also the ability to try this out myself, but that's not important right now, is it?

Another important bit I read was that you want ADS to be a hit and run vehicle, but the fact that there is no one saying anything about the rendering issue we face. If we're supposed to be a hit and run role, then we need to be able to hit and run effectively. Currently, as it stands, I have to hover in an area I know a swarmer is in order to have him render, in that time he has enough time to shoot a volley of swarms at me.

But anyway TL:DR version, the swarms acceleration buff seems reasonable enough to me, but I'd like a little more data in the other areas you've discussed before I can offer anything solid.

Questions:

1) There was a time when a rooftop swarmer could deny access to any vehicle over massive sections of battlefield. This capability was deemed unfair, and swarm range was drastically reduced. How might we relate this scenario to an increase in Forge Gun range?

2) Snipers have expressed serious concerns about the Sniper Rifle's upcoming range reduction. Might an increase in Forge Gun range upset balance between Sniper and Forge Sniper?

lol at that link, anywho, maybe you shouldn't hover in front of the weapon designated to kill you, maybe team work?