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Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:17:00 - [1] - Quote Got a few suggestions on the snipers post delta. 1st. suggestion Get rid of them all. the only way that you will stop red line sniping is to remove it. so as the entire community is so anti sniper, turn them into marksmen rifles. that way you don't have snipers anymore. it's obviously what everybody wants. 200m maximum range, damage needs to go way up. as does headshot damage. no sway on the scope at all- as it is not a sniper rifle this is not acceptable 2nd suggestion if you are feeling slightly more reasonable towards snipers and do still believe in giving your players a sniper role to chose (at this point i genuinely doubt it ) a, lower charge times on the charge rifles the reduced range that you are introducing is counter productive to needing to charge up a rifle b, you should be getting rid of the scope sway now - you want us to come in close but keep us unable to contend with others who not only get no sway but also get aim assist. c, you need to stop including the damage modifiers into the damage profile of sniper rifles. as you obviously want snipers to be ground troops (marksmen) then they are now going to need to be able to equip other modules. you can't expect a player to play as a glass cannon going up close against other players, they are going to need to have defenses d, new scope reticules. these ring reticules are completely useless for any range sniping. we either need the new ones suggested in the other sticky thread or the old one back. ( I suggest the new one) e,these damage buffs are going to need to be immense. as you are probably intending to half the range on them then you should double the damage. (i'm deadly serious, it's proportional.) f,All headshots at proto level should now be one hit kill. and i mean clone termination. in what way would any kind of culture develop a short range sniper rifle that is not capable of at least this? they would not. because it would be a pointless weapon. as it will be on here too. Although some of these on the surface seem ott they are not, as a sniper in this game every other suit that gets within range will win in a fire fight. this cannot be the case anymore. a sniper rifle needs to be a precision tool, so the player will now be within a range that can be attacked quickly (don't try to argue there are scouts that can cross a map in seconds and lav's with heavies etc.), whilst trying to aim down scope.. that now makes them higher risk than any other weapon. because nobody else needs to do that. (before people start saying about secondary weapons-you can rely on them but then they are your new primary) don't forget that delta should be making them pc viable. I already know that no corp will want a short range sniper in a pc match. good luck with that one. in case it isn't clear i'm slightly disappointed at the moment. CCP. I have been sniping on this game over a year, i have played through the variations watching them get gradually worse. (even following the fanfest debacle) having seen some great things in the last hotfixes.. Delta was the time to finally bring them back up to parr, and it seems that your opinion is that it should be nerfed...again.. you have finally achieved it. just before a whole host of other games are released. I have lost faith in you.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 386	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:18:00 - [2] - Quote c'mon people. throw some ideas into the hat.
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 5	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:49:00 - [3] - Quote I think that even 400 meters its too long. I like to play with a sniper in certain maps, depending on the situation, but I do agree that red line snipers shouldnt exist, and 400 meters its enough for a good (really good) sniper to stay in (or close) the red line. Besides, the thing about reducing the range is all about making them leave the safe zone and force them to face certain danger, not just to kill and be bothersome without the risk of being killed too. Now, this is my opinion and I know that there may be things that Im forgetting or that I dont know, but I do think that the effective range must be reduced. There are plenty of good places in different maps to play as a sniper without the need to stay in the red line, and one last thing, about something you said about the headshot multiplier; I think thats amazing, its makes the rol of the sniper really important and intimidating, and that just makes more important to reduce the range to avoid red line snipers (again, they need to face certain danger, and again, thats my opinion and I would love to hear others).
Wasten Anti Her0s 9	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:35:00 - [4] - Quote I would like if I could snipe standing up with less sway, having to crouch all the time sux .
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1645	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:19:00 - [5] - Quote Anything below 400 makes them useless. All snipers need variable zoom. The direct damage and headshot multiplier buff will be very helpful. Shoot Scout with yes.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 599	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:02:00 - [6] - Quote No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1954	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:34:00 - [7] - Quote I like the idea of a relatively short (for sniping) optimal range and a long falloff range with a sharp diminishing effectiveness curve while also keeping the headshot bonus.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:36:00 - [8] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I completely agree with you, but i will say this much ccp have already decided on nerfing the range, to think otherwise is to kid ourselves. 1.perches should of been added before any changes to range but thy are extremely unlikely. 2.terrain glitching/rendering issues are a real problem as are the hit detection issues. 3.as i was forced into using the calmando suit for it's damage bonus i would not be impressed to see other suits getting bonuses to sniper rifles. this why we can't nerf the absolute range.. because enemy red liners will be completely safe if we do. but if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. mikel arias although i agree with the premise of stop red line sniping there are other conditions that lead to it, it is a symptom not a cause. there are some maps where there are no good spots in the burnzone. the mechanics of the sniper rifle which make it an unreliable close range weapon. the fact that players will fall back and snipe when they are being beaten because they think it is safe. the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. and the big one, some players like to be safe...at the cost of being ineffective, some players will even afk if they are just isk farming, some because they are still learning. point is you will never force players out of the red line by nerfing range. it just won't work that way. they will happily sit out there picking of people that stray too close and going 5-0 because that is no worse than what they do now. the difference will be that they don't need to worry about being counter sniped anymore. i have pointed this out over and over again, the red line is not a synonym for range. they are two different things. because the players who red line snipe are not trying to be effective or do well, so it will not matter to them whether they get 1 kill or 5 kills. the only way to stop players abusing the red line both ways is to stop damage into or out of the red line.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 954	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:55:00 - [9] - Quote maps need to be changed. messing with snipers is after the fact once real issues have been addressed. theres no good vantage points in th area of play so people sit in the redline. the redline is there because maps are to small and it needs to be scaled back so that current redline vantage points are game area and the redline needs to be in a spot that isnt advatagous to camping while still avoiding spawn camping and give teams launching points. rendering needs to be fixed so theres no and so does the sensitivty and targeting of the sniperrifle. leading targets is impossible at long range and unless your lucky and theyre standing still you cant him them anyway. maps are just too small for the redline to do its job, all it does it provide a haven and safe zone. most of the redlines are ridges that give good views. then you notice the area within the playfield 200-300meters of the objective is usually barren lowlands where you cant hide, cant get good shots, and cant move around hidden. it throws off the entire dynamic. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:47:00 - [10] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. Do you think shortening the range helped this in any way, shape, or form at all? I personally think that with the way maps are and the generic gunning style adopted by the old and the new (mostly new) bunnies over the length of Dust has degraded sniping so far that CCP will never be able to fix it unless they go all the way to hotfix Gamma strictly studying the role and the power of the guns themselves. Don't want to make it hopeless but it still feels hopeless with the meat bags complaining all the time... Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle

George Moros RestlessSpirits 409	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:52:00 - [11] - Quote OK, here's my take on the subject... I think that reducing range of sniper rifles is far from best solution to redline sniping. IMHO, the best one would be to cancel any WP, LP or ISK reward to kills made by sniper rifles from inside redline. However, nerfing range is probably the only solution CCP can implement without client side changes. The real question is, will reduced range really solve redline sniping? I believe it will, but not entirely. In some situations, and on some maps, you could still snipe from inside redline, and perform reasonably well. However, if a player chooses sniping as his primary role, he will spend most of his time outside of redline. Taking this into account, there are some things OP mentioned that I completely agree with. Snipers are, quite literally, sitting ducks. On top of that, they're sitting ducks with tunnel vision. If someone decides to find and eliminate a sniper, it is astonishingly easy to do so (providing they are not in the redline). The only remaining "safespot" for snipers would be structures that are only accessible by dropships. But here's the catch - if you think about it, sitting on top of buildings isn't really that much different than sitting in the redline. You can only be removed either by counter sniping, or by a DS. The only difference is that DS pilot is not required to suicide. This simply begs the question - why are then rooftop snipers considered as "honorable" and redline snipers as cheaters? To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? And finally, let's ignore rooftop snipers, and assume all (or at least most) of snipers are accessible on foot. In the current balance, even a complex-dmg.-mod-stacked Cal. commando with Ishukone SR usually requires an entire clip to kill a heavy (I'm assuming body shots, and every round hitting)! So, a sniper is expected to sit still, in tunnel vision, accessible to anyone who chooses to dispose of him, without almost any effective means for self-defense (for instance, if a SG scout gets behind your back, you literally stand no chance to survive). If this is the case, then snipers should be able to be effective without the need for proto weaponry and expensive glass-cannon fits. The OP is completely correct here, If snipers are forced outside of redline, SR damage should be buffed considerably. Noone in their right mind will risk a 100k suit in order to get maybe a dozen kills, and very little else (snipers don't hack, repair, drop uplinks etc. - killing is their only source of WP), while risking to get executed by anyone not lazy enough to find them. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:02:00 - [12] - Quote George Moros wrote: Noone in their right mind will risk a 100k suit in order to get maybe a dozen kills, and very little else (snipers don't hack, repair, drop uplinks etc. - killing is their only source of WP), while risking to get executed by anyone not lazy enough to find them. This is where a tag shot or whatever implement for tagging a target would be the most useful but I don't know how it would work out in the long run considering people love to ruin roles in this game with nerfs and mass usage of whatever said weapon or suit. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:27:00 - [13] - Quote Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:37:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill Unacceptable for the reasons that sniper rifles should most definitely have more range than the forge gun unless you want to set the exmaple that a gaint blue ball travels just as far as a bullet which is designed be it fantasy or real, to go farther due to physics and the description describing said weapon. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16287	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:02:00 - [15] - Quote Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
George Moros RestlessSpirits 409	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:43:00 - [16] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill Unacceptable for the reasons that sniper rifles should most definitely have more range than the forge gun unless you want to set the exmaple that a gaint blue ball travels just as far as a bullet which is designed be it fantasy or real, to go farther due to physics and the description describing said weapon. Not only that. Unlike snipers, forge guns OHK any suit (no need to trouble yourself with headshots), doesn't require the user to sit still, can be effective even in CQC (to some extent), and kill LAVs, HAVs, DSs and installations (which is BTW their primary and intended purpose). If the difference in range is only 20m, why would anyone use a SR instead of forge? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:47:00 - [17] - Quote Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:58:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:04:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Sometimes I forget how to read charts and use them to my my advantage so could you explain this in layman terms? Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
George Moros RestlessSpirits 411	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:06:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. Well, I was assuming that with a range nerf, most snipers won't be in the redline (if they intend to get more than 5 kills per match). 400m range for SR would force snipers out of the redline on most (if not all) maps. They would be effective inside the redline only in situations where their team is losing and is being pushed back. In such a situation, I don't necessarily regard redline snipers as a bad thing. Pulvereus ergo queritor.

Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:18:00 - [21] - Quote George Moros wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. Well, I was assuming that with a range nerf, most snipers won't be in the redline (if they intend to get more than 5 kills per match). 400m range for SR would force snipers out of the redline on most (if not all) maps. They would be effective inside the redline only in situations where their team is losing and is being pushed back. In such a situation, I don't necessarily regard redline snipers as a bad thing. I don't disregard them either seeing as I have and will use great vantage points to my advantage while also seeing it as an adventure to go and hunt enemy redliners from another point just because i'm that type of guy. You can count on me to go sniper hunting if you get irritated by a sniper in the redline or not! Also I ABSOLUTELY LOVE taking my time of day to to hunt, distract, and/or annoy the living **** out of said snipers because it makes my day to make them mentally tired and rage at at my interference in their life!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:38:00 - [22] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:56:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment?
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:00:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:20:00 - [25] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2478	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:09:00 - [26] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc. Actually laser rifles eat a progressive damage penalty inside 30m. You have a better chance of winning with the sniper rifle in cqc. If you happen to hit someone in close you will do noticable damage. The laser rifle has the killing power of a toddler wielding a damp sock inside 30m. That being said, the sniper rifle should not be reduced below forge reach. Ever. Equal? Maybe. But not less. 250m would be too short.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:18:00 - [27] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: [quote=Snake Sellors][quote=Iron Wolf Saber] I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. No problem mate, Not too certain about the red numbers, could be changes or most common? Neutral I took to mean without proficiency Maxi means maximum, so calmando with 3 damage mods. Commo means calmando no mods. At 10% Left to right takes you through the stats for each type/ tier of rifle. (look for headers) Then each line includes % bonus damage. So line one has 1 damage mod line 2 has two going through to the calmando with three. And that sliding scale is the reason for the diagnols. Because as you go through the diagnols it accounts for adding them in to the tier above . (1st + 2nd + 3rd etc.) The tabs across the top of the page You have the sniper damage chart which is current. Appia chart which is appia's suggestion for delta and a corrected version of it. Then the iron wolf chart on the end which is iron wolf's suggestions. (my favourite one) I hope that helps. If I'm wrong then hopefully iws will point us in the right direction, but that's what I got from it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:27:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc. Actually laser rifles eat a progressive damage penalty inside 30m. You have a better chance of winning with the sniper rifle in cqc. If you happen to hit someone in close you will do noticable damage. The laser rifle has the killing power of a toddler wielding a damp sock inside 30m. That being said, the sniper rifle should not be reduced below forge reach. Ever. Equal? Maybe. But not less. 250m would be too short. To be honest the laser wouldn't be the best bet. You need to keep it running before you get your damage it doesn't rely on alpha damage. As for it not being fair to have tower snipers. That is just stupid. I have had to skill into drop ships and long range weapons to use that strategy. It was a deliberate choice. My main vulnerability is against ads so I carry a swarm launcher. You are supposed to adapt. If you are finding tower snipers a real problem then put sp into dropships. Doesn't need to be an ads just go up there and kill them. It is a valid tactic because it does not require suicide to counter. As for how long before players try to stop that too..they aren't waiting they sense blood in the water due to the range nerf and already started saying tower snipers are invulnerable. Which is ridiculous.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 15:47:00 - [29] - Quote the towers are not the problem on ANY map. I can kill snipers in EVERY SINGLE TOWER on every map in the game with a forge gun. So no. Tower sniping is fine because it is well within the range of counterfire. It's certain hills on certain maps that are deep in the redline that have headshot glitch issues, and are so distant that the snipers do not render, making them invisible AND tapping targets across the map. That's the problem Rattati was mentioning. The game does NOT render opponents who are not within the absolute range of your weapon at all. No red reticle, no visual, the sniper shot contrail also fails to render. That's what they mean by "zero-risk" snipers. You can utilize a Thale rifle from just outside the max range of an enemy sniper. they will render, you will not, because your weapon has a better range maximum, therefore your draw distance is longer. That's why 320m is my suggestion. You do not fall outside the draw distance of the enemy, and are thusly not untouchable without a dropship.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16291	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:28:00 - [30] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Nuetral is raw damage Commo and commando bonus Maxi is 3 damage mods and commando bonus combined and yes Armor Proficiency since snipers get +15% at max skills. Diagonal numbers are to help break apart how calculated with they are calculated stacking penalties included. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked

Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 287	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:32:00 - [31] - Quote 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. What will really help more as most have already said, is changing he maps so that we have actual places INSIDE the combat area, or for them to be bigger, but that would lead to endless qq about them as I've heard from some vets talking about the old days before I started playing. As far as damage/hs buff goes, I'm only going to speak for the charge since that's all I use, but liking the Appia's numbers from IWS' spreadsheet link. Would also like a suit other than the calmando (preferrably scout) getting a boost of some type for sniping, maybe the cal light since some are trying to work some boost into them and it would fit the best game wise, thinking fitting reduction/reload speed. Just day dreaming on the last paragraph. what i think of when charging fg
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:49:00 - [32] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:15:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Nuetral is raw damage Commo and commando bonus Maxi is 3 damage mods and commando bonus combined and yes Armor Proficiency since snipers get +15% at max skills. Diagonal numbers are to help break apart how calculated with they are calculated stacking penalties included. There are more numbers but I cannot show them yet but we can talk about what they are. Generally mostly as someone guessed, range and few others. I changed a few things overall though The tactical would have larger magazine and the highest field endurance and be better suited for close in combat dealing portionally much higher body shot damage but lesser headshot bonus and I am pushing for increased stability so that maybe you can get full stability without the need to crouch. Charge in return however would be more of the professional weapon less of a spam weapon so while it will have the largest based damage of all regular rifles that advantage will come at the magazine drawback. The ranges I picked are looking good in map simulations so far but it is really really hard to draw circles that account for height distance loss; either way any counter sniping done with a non-sniper weapon means you ****** up in allowing that person to live long enough to get the range closed enough and generally based on running speeds of most suits you should in theory down any counter sniper if you catch them early enough. Areas that are too protected you need to keep a watch on to prevent any surprises. Any additional range changes from here I have strongly recommended reduction in scope zoom instead if needed. The ranges I am picked should also assume optimal not sure if they're going to change absolute range but Ill ask around a bit. CPM involvement is pretty high this go around but CCP still gets final say so. I am happy with the numbers I got so far. Thanks for clarifying, as for the height distance loss would it be possible to work some sort of trigonometry in there in order to allow for it? if it's based on an equilateral triangle then it would allow the distance for height sniping, don't have a clue how these things are coded so just theorizing. i'm fine with the charge rifle getting a clip adjustment but only if the ammo skill actually does it's job in delta, at the moment it's not worth the sp. also if the ammo count per clip goes down then charge rate should go down. it's fine saying that you made an error allowing somebody to get close but if it takes too long to take more than one shot... (again though you would have a clearer idea due to simulations etc, i'm mostly just pointing out that it already has draw backs compared to other rifles in order to gain it's higher damage, i.e it fires slower.) patiently waiting for news on absolute/effective.. n.b i don't think that 300 meters will cut it to be honest, also that is a huge nerf, 50% of it's range capabilities in one swing with no new positions.. tactical rifle is starting to sound interesting and along the lines that i have thought would be better for some time now. but i'm still dubious that it would get anywhere in pc.
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 287	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:31:00 - [34] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. what i think of when charging fg
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 603	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:05:00 - [35] - Quote George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!"
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:45:00 - [36] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4129	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:02:00 - [37] - Quote I agree that reducing Optimal range without reducing Effective range would be the best way of making it difficult to get kills from the red line and encourage Snipers to move forward, while not nerfing the Sniper RifleGÇÖs ability to reach across the map completely. I also like the idea of a larger head shot bonus, which would make Sniping a more skill based occupation. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4130	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:15:00 - [38] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. This is a good point. It is much easier to get a head shot against a Sniper than it is against a normal solder, because a solder on the frontline should never be standing still. So reducing damage at long range, but keeping a large head shot bonus will make the Anti-snipers more effective than the Redline Snipers. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 288	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:35:00 - [39] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Oh trust me, I'm aware. But there's only been 1 or 2 redliners who I've never been able to handle. And I do know the name of one of the biggest qqers on here....lol And there's also been quite a few times that my blues could only hack the objective (I play dom exclusively) be cause of me getting key kills/uplinks as they approached.... what i think of when charging fg
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:08:00 - [40] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Oh trust me, I'm aware. But there's only been 1 or 2 redliners who I've never been able to handle. And I do know the name of one of the biggest qqers on here....lol And there's also been quite a few times that my blues could only hack the objective (I play dom exclusively) be cause of me getting key kills/uplinks as they approached.... we are certainly becoming aware of some of them. and if i were them i'd think carefully about doing any fw. i would not want to be in their shoes.. that said i actually don't do things like that but i know others do. all i would say is that if i found myself in a position where i see an enemy about to kill one of them i wouldn't shoot too early.. after all i wouldn't want to get accused of stealing their kills.. it looks like the proposed damages are going to be one of those on the sheets, so we can get a rough idea now. don't know how it'll be chosen though, i assume the sheets are shown to ccp and they pick which one?

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:11:00 - [41] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. This is a good point. It is much easier to get a head shot against a Sniper than it is against a normal solder, because a solder on the frontline should never be standing still. So reducing damage at long range, but keeping a large head shot bonus will make the Anti-snipers more effective than the Redline Snipers. Thanks, i think this will be quite an important aspect to diminish red line snipers
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 291	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:24:00 - [42] - Quote [/quote] we are certainly becoming aware of some of them. and if i were them i'd think carefully about doing any fw. i would not want to be in their shoes.. that said i actually don't do things like that but i know others do. all i would say is that if i found myself in a position where i see an enemy about to kill one of them i wouldn't shoot too early.. after all i wouldn't want to get accused of stealing their kills.. it looks like the proposed damages are going to be one of those on the sheets, so we can get a rough idea now. don't know how it'll be chosen though, i assume the sheets are shown to ccp and they pick which one? [/quote] Not sure on the process, but if I had to choose, Appia's original #'s for my charge ....the rest can be whatever lol Edit: Oops, quote fail...fk it I'm too lazy to fix it what i think of when charging fg
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2014.09.03 02:18:00 - [43] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" when did they implement the sliding and ladder removal? did they make rooftops redline like i said? or do you die? or is it just sliding off of all the buildings? Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 402	Posted - 2014.09.03 09:37:00 - [44] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" when did they implement the sliding and ladder removal? did they make rooftops redline like i said? or do you die? or is it just sliding off of all the buildings? I genuinely hope your trolling, otherwise you are displaying mind numbing density. As mentioned earlier if you want to go to rooftops then you will need to invest sp Just like everyone else has. You will need to get either drop ships or long range weapons. Just like we do. We didn't just magically get given these things, we have invested time effort and sp into being effective at what we do. It's not our fault that some people can't understand that trying to pick off a sniper from 200m below with a shotgun isn't going to work.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:12:00 - [45] - Quote ooh look.....Bouncey!
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.04 19:21:00 - [46] - Quote 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 407	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:16:00 - [47] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2543	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:35:00 - [48] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage Splash is being removed from all but the assault, which has a muzzle bounce that will normally prevent accurate body hits at 300m. Regular sniper forges will not be able to "near miss"
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:02:00 - [49] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage Splash is being removed from all but the assault, which has a muzzle bounce that will normally prevent accurate body hits at 300m. Regular sniper forges will not be able to "near miss" oh my bad.. that makes it even then don't mate? because a sniper can always ohk? doesn't need a headshot? can still move around whilst aiming? can damage vehicles? and that particular fg is a single example.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.04 23:51:00 - [50] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up

Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 88	Posted - 2014.09.05 02:48:00 - [51] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 4	Posted - 2014.09.05 10:43:00 - [52] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: please change the charge rifles sound effect when charging. you`re so right... i hate that sound... and i can agree with somethings you describe but we: - don`t need to nerf ranges; - need that headshots thing to be reviewed (i have a good % of headshots per game so if i can kill those heavy guys more easily, then cool); Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.05 13:39:00 - [53] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 420	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:14:00 - [54] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen. You're dreaming bud You think that you won't get red line snipers after delta. probably move to skirmishes and just aim at home point No 1200 is not enough. Again look at the numbers.. I don't think their range should be nerfed. That was already done once and that's. When red line sniping became a problem. Before a sniper could as far as they could see,which meant nowhere was safe. However For now an effective range of 400 means to be affective you will be within that range An absolute range of five or even 600, where headshot multipliers still count will allow easy counter sniping particularly against red liners This is a twofold Discourager you will be in a poor position for effect and will be at risk from other snipers at the same time.it won't be safer in the red.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:58:00 - [55] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen. You're dreaming bud You think that you won't get red line snipers after delta. probably move to skirmishes and just aim at home point No 1200 is not enough. Again look at the numbers.. I don't think their range should be nerfed. That was already done once and that's. When red line sniping became a problem. Before a sniper could as far as they could see,which meant nowhere was safe. However For now an effective range of 400 means to be affective you will be within that range An absolute range of five or even 600, where headshot multipliers still count will allow easy counter sniping particularly against red liners This is a twofold Discourager you will be in a poor position for effect and will be at risk from other snipers at the same time.it won't be safer in the red. 1200 is more than enough If you need more use the charge More than 400 meters allows redline snipers We already know snipers are getting a range nerf 400 meters is the most range they should get
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:56:00 - [56] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 1200 is more than enough If you need more use the charge More than 400 meters allows redline snipers We already know snipers are getting a range nerf 400 meters is the most range they should get 1200 isn't going to cut it at the rate of increasing cloakers, the hmg everyone thinks is going to get nerf but still rule, and also role destroyers like FOTM **tards, * whiners calling cheating (David Mustane), and finally idiots who wish to remove the redline snipers but also end up ing up it for the snipers who really want to snipe and support their squad/team. All I see COD like tryhards who don't know that there is a such thing as cover in this game without exploiting the mechanics of it. BTW I don't judge people or groups from a one time thing; I judge from an over time perspective and have seen many go into the scrub dust bunny way of life after enough time playing.... GIT GUD at staying whatyou initially wanted to be in this game and it wouldn't have fell so low since both the cummunity and the makers are ** in the head! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:22:00 - [57] - Quote Also redline sniping really started because of these points: The best and most vantage points are in the red People got tired of getting proto stomped fresh out of the academy and decided instead of suicide it's better to stay back to save clones Some knew the exploits of the game and purposefully used that to their advantage Most if not all of the dust community don't want to a lot of waste isk either because their saving for something or just plain saving Many could be spending a game to try and train themselves to use DS like I used to do before I hoped in a missile tank In the red is also the best way to test isk costing fits before moving to a position down field Some people have friends or rivals on the opposite side who they want to have a friendly competition with or just want to **** with them just to send a message or have a almost pure one-on-one match during the game if they know the rival or friend likes to counter snipe or redline rush because it gives them excitement Lastly.... and pay attention... Some people have fun using patience and timing instead of just being some run n' gun meat bag on the field because they love the disarray, caution, fear, respect (and yes some people DO respect a sniper redline or not picking off a target at the right time saving a blueberry a fit and clone before them go broke), and all out chaos with a side of rage they get when they ping or kill you enough to make YOU go broke while they just see a bottle of QQ tears sitting on their table I love it!! It gives off a taste just little bit different than the orphan tears YFM gave me! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 41	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:10:00 - [58] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" Rooftop snipers are predictable, sitting ducks, and easily countered via SR or DS. They're well within the map, so I wouldn't say they're cheaters. Bring back shark fins/spires and let us be able to provide overwatch from there. The problem weren't the shark fins themselves, but that people could slide in and out of the thing on top of them and negate damage - easily fixable. Destination: Destiny. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR > ReGnYuM Twitter: SkylineExplicit
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 230	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:56:00 - [59] - Quote I'd like to point out that the reasoning behind CCP wanting to end redline sniping is that a playstyle's counter should not be only itself. In other games, in real life, in a perfect world, something else besides snipers can kill snipers. Allowing them to be killed by sneaky stealth shotgunners, dedicated assaults, or pissed off lucky Mass Drivers means that snipers have to do something in this game that they should be doing...changing positions after they are found. At the moment it's silly that a sniper doesn't have to move. That being the case - I kinda agree with some snipers that they should be able to stand and shoot. I mean there is a delay between bringing up zoom and the sway stopping right? Just make it short for crouching and long for standing -- but allow snipers to stop swaying when standing if they wait in the zoom long enough. I think we'd have some more mid range support snipers this way.
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 333	Posted - 2014.09.06 01:32:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 With your suggestions (IWS list) to charge & tactical we taking 1 step forward & 2 steps back in fixing sniping & "Sumo sniping". You just actually forcing players for Sumo + LAV combo sniping (due to resistances on Amarr & Gallente Sentinels) with range nerf. Try to imagine and understand consequences, there still will be no way to kill them 1 vs 1. Maps are not changed, old maps like Manus Peak has redline literally everywhere, range nerf even to 300m won't affect Sumo sniping on those maps. LAV righ behind you alows you to avoid kamikadze in dropships with hmg. Charge is alredy most low dps SR, there no needs to nerf it. Tac. most high dps & the only SR that can counter snipe suits with slightly less than 1k hp, because of rof, nefing it (changing playstile) will take away that only possibility. Unless we got heavy suits restricted from using light weapons, we have commandos for that with 2 light weapons slots. About Symbioticforks lists... sorry man but boosting raw dmg will turn it into "noob tube" weapon where one half of playrbase will pop onother with single shot to any bodypart... and we have same problems like above. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...

Atiim 11871	Posted - 2014.09.06 01:36:00 - [61] - Quote Sway while standing needs to go. In it's current form, it removes the ability to snipe from many good spots due to banisters and railings that seem to be there for absolutely no good reason. Not only that, but it hinders Snipers who are constantly mobile by forcing them to crouch into a sole spot if they want to reliably hit something. Then, we could replace the Operation Skill Bonus with something useful, like Headshot % multiplier. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 333	Posted - 2014.09.06 02:32:00 - [62] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sway while standing needs to go. In it's current form, it removes the ability to snipe from many good spots due to banisters and railings that seem to be there for absolutely no good reason. Not only that, but it hinders Snipers who are constantly mobile by forcing them to crouch into a sole spot if they want to reliably hit something. Then, we could replace the Operation Skill Bonus with something useful, like Headshot % multiplier. That will work very good with noticeable range nerf & mobile playstyle. Maybe some new variant of mobile sniper rifle, short range but no sway while standing, or moving (dodging). Skill reducing sway while in motion, more like FG playstyle -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 613	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:01:00 - [63] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Lastly.... and pay attention... Some people have fun using patience and timing instead of just being some run n' gun meat bag on the field] THIS SO MUCH.
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 45	Posted - 2014.09.06 10:06:00 - [64] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sway while standing needs to go. In it's current form, it removes the ability to snipe from many good spots due to banisters and railings that seem to be there for absolutely no good reason. Not only that, but it hinders Snipers who are constantly mobile by forcing them to crouch into a sole spot if they want to reliably hit something. Then, we could replace the Operation Skill Bonus with something useful, like Headshot % multiplier. In a previous post I suggested that sway reduction should be included with either proficiency or as you increase in SR tier, with the amount of time required to have sway be at zero lower with higher tiers/proficiency. Since they are buffing damage and head shot multiplier, while nerfing range, I can see it falling under proficiency, if not straight up coming with the weapons as you advance in tiers. Destination: Destiny. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR > ReGnYuM Twitter: SkylineExplicit
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 335	Posted - 2014.09.06 13:44:00 - [65] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: In a previous post I suggested that sway reduction should be included with either proficiency or as you increase in SR tier, with the amount of time required to have sway be at zero lower with higher tiers/proficiency. Since they are buffing damage and head shot multiplier, while nerfing range, I can see it falling under proficiency, if not straight up coming with the weapons as you advance in tiers. That way we can move around the map and snipe. I'm not sure, however, if that'd need a client update or not. Client update not needed. And SR operation already reduce sway 5% per lvl it's just 25% at max, but sway always resets when unscoping. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 47	Posted - 2014.09.07 02:20:00 - [66] - Quote Keeriam Miray wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: In a previous post I suggested that sway reduction should be included with either proficiency or as you increase in SR tier, with the amount of time required to have sway be at zero lower with higher tiers/proficiency. Since they are buffing damage and head shot multiplier, while nerfing range, I can see it falling under proficiency, if not straight up coming with the weapons as you advance in tiers. That way we can move around the map and snipe. I'm not sure, however, if that'd need a client update or not. Client update not needed. And SR operation already reduce sway 5% per lvl it's just 25% at max, but sway always resets when unscoping. Maybe add it to operation then as 2 in 1. Destination: Destiny. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR > ReGnYuM Twitter: SkylineExplicit
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 98	Posted - 2014.09.07 08:17:00 - [67] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Keeriam Miray wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: In a previous post I suggested that sway reduction should be included with either proficiency or as you increase in SR tier, with the amount of time required to have sway be at zero lower with higher tiers/proficiency. Since they are buffing damage and head shot multiplier, while nerfing range, I can see it falling under proficiency, if not straight up coming with the weapons as you advance in tiers. That way we can move around the map and snipe. I'm not sure, however, if that'd need a client update or not. Client update not needed. And SR operation already reduce sway 5% per lvl it's just 25% at max, but sway always resets when unscoping. Maybe add it to operation then as 2 in 1. So add in reduce sway by 1% in the profiency? Because that doesn't seem all that bad. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 816	Posted - 2014.09.07 08:24:00 - [68] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I like this. This was said all along. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 98	Posted - 2014.09.07 08:30:00 - [69] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I like this. This was said all along. Caldari Mandos already have the bonus to SR's right? but i'm not against a bonus for the SR specifically because I like it too. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 817	Posted - 2014.09.07 14:29:00 - [70] - Quote It's not really a bonus. Sniper Rifle damage actually went DOWN upon the Caldari Commando release. (because damage mods were 5%) Now that they're 7% in a Caldari Commando suit, snipers have gained 4% damage over previous builds. Obviously 4% damage increase per bullet.. in a 3-5 round clip.. is essentially nothing. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 432	Posted - 2014.09.07 14:50:00 - [71] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I like this. This was said all along. Caldari Mandos already have the bonus to SR's right? but i'm not against a bonus for the SR specifically because I like it too. yes they do have a damage bonus.. but that is the sole reason that the dedicated snipers started to use them. because we had to skill into a suit that .has a bigger profile .less equipment slots .until recently was white! .has limited module slots .runs slow .needed to use three complex damage mods as well as level 5 just to get to less damage than other lighter suits in 1.7. it wasn't a choice.. it was do this or watch sniper rounds ping harmlessly of even the lightest frames. so i am now dead set against any other suit getting sniper rifle bonuses, or any kind of increase to pg/cpu requirements. i was forced into using it. do not even try to punish me for using it now
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 436	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:16:00 - [72] - Quote BOINGG!!!


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