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Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:17:00 - [1] - Quote Got a few suggestions on the snipers post delta. 1st. suggestion Get rid of them all. the only way that you will stop red line sniping is to remove it. so as the entire community is so anti sniper, turn them into marksmen rifles. that way you don't have snipers anymore. it's obviously what everybody wants. 200m maximum range, damage needs to go way up. as does headshot damage. no sway on the scope at all- as it is not a sniper rifle this is not acceptable 2nd suggestion if you are feeling slightly more reasonable towards snipers and do still believe in giving your players a sniper role to chose (at this point i genuinely doubt it ) a, lower charge times on the charge rifles the reduced range that you are introducing is counter productive to needing to charge up a rifle b, you should be getting rid of the scope sway now - you want us to come in close but keep us unable to contend with others who not only get no sway but also get aim assist. c, you need to stop including the damage modifiers into the damage profile of sniper rifles. as you obviously want snipers to be ground troops (marksmen) then they are now going to need to be able to equip other modules. you can't expect a player to play as a glass cannon going up close against other players, they are going to need to have defenses d, new scope reticules. these ring reticules are completely useless for any range sniping. we either need the new ones suggested in the other sticky thread or the old one back. ( I suggest the new one) e,these damage buffs are going to need to be immense. as you are probably intending to half the range on them then you should double the damage. (i'm deadly serious, it's proportional.) f,All headshots at proto level should now be one hit kill. and i mean clone termination. in what way would any kind of culture develop a short range sniper rifle that is not capable of at least this? they would not. because it would be a pointless weapon. as it will be on here too. Although some of these on the surface seem ott they are not, as a sniper in this game every other suit that gets within range will win in a fire fight. this cannot be the case anymore. a sniper rifle needs to be a precision tool, so the player will now be within a range that can be attacked quickly (don't try to argue there are scouts that can cross a map in seconds and lav's with heavies etc.), whilst trying to aim down scope.. that now makes them higher risk than any other weapon. because nobody else needs to do that. (before people start saying about secondary weapons-you can rely on them but then they are your new primary) don't forget that delta should be making them pc viable. I already know that no corp will want a short range sniper in a pc match. good luck with that one. in case it isn't clear i'm slightly disappointed at the moment. CCP. I have been sniping on this game over a year, i have played through the variations watching them get gradually worse. (even following the fanfest debacle) having seen some great things in the last hotfixes.. Delta was the time to finally bring them back up to parr, and it seems that your opinion is that it should be nerfed...again.. you have finally achieved it. just before a whole host of other games are released. I have lost faith in you.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 386	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:18:00 - [2] - Quote c'mon people. throw some ideas into the hat.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:36:00 - [3] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I completely agree with you, but i will say this much ccp have already decided on nerfing the range, to think otherwise is to kid ourselves. 1.perches should of been added before any changes to range but thy are extremely unlikely. 2.terrain glitching/rendering issues are a real problem as are the hit detection issues. 3.as i was forced into using the calmando suit for it's damage bonus i would not be impressed to see other suits getting bonuses to sniper rifles. this why we can't nerf the absolute range.. because enemy red liners will be completely safe if we do. but if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. mikel arias although i agree with the premise of stop red line sniping there are other conditions that lead to it, it is a symptom not a cause. there are some maps where there are no good spots in the burnzone. the mechanics of the sniper rifle which make it an unreliable close range weapon. the fact that players will fall back and snipe when they are being beaten because they think it is safe. the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. and the big one, some players like to be safe...at the cost of being ineffective, some players will even afk if they are just isk farming, some because they are still learning. point is you will never force players out of the red line by nerfing range. it just won't work that way. they will happily sit out there picking of people that stray too close and going 5-0 because that is no worse than what they do now. the difference will be that they don't need to worry about being counter sniped anymore. i have pointed this out over and over again, the red line is not a synonym for range. they are two different things. because the players who red line snipe are not trying to be effective or do well, so it will not matter to them whether they get 1 kill or 5 kills. the only way to stop players abusing the red line both ways is to stop damage into or out of the red line.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:38:00 - [4] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:56:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment?
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:00:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:18:00 - [7] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: [quote=Snake Sellors][quote=Iron Wolf Saber] I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. No problem mate, Not too certain about the red numbers, could be changes or most common? Neutral I took to mean without proficiency Maxi means maximum, so calmando with 3 damage mods. Commo means calmando no mods. At 10% Left to right takes you through the stats for each type/ tier of rifle. (look for headers) Then each line includes % bonus damage. So line one has 1 damage mod line 2 has two going through to the calmando with three. And that sliding scale is the reason for the diagnols. Because as you go through the diagnols it accounts for adding them in to the tier above . (1st + 2nd + 3rd etc.) The tabs across the top of the page You have the sniper damage chart which is current. Appia chart which is appia's suggestion for delta and a corrected version of it. Then the iron wolf chart on the end which is iron wolf's suggestions. (my favourite one) I hope that helps. If I'm wrong then hopefully iws will point us in the right direction, but that's what I got from it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:27:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc. Actually laser rifles eat a progressive damage penalty inside 30m. You have a better chance of winning with the sniper rifle in cqc. If you happen to hit someone in close you will do noticable damage. The laser rifle has the killing power of a toddler wielding a damp sock inside 30m. That being said, the sniper rifle should not be reduced below forge reach. Ever. Equal? Maybe. But not less. 250m would be too short. To be honest the laser wouldn't be the best bet. You need to keep it running before you get your damage it doesn't rely on alpha damage. As for it not being fair to have tower snipers. That is just stupid. I have had to skill into drop ships and long range weapons to use that strategy. It was a deliberate choice. My main vulnerability is against ads so I carry a swarm launcher. You are supposed to adapt. If you are finding tower snipers a real problem then put sp into dropships. Doesn't need to be an ads just go up there and kill them. It is a valid tactic because it does not require suicide to counter. As for how long before players try to stop that too..they aren't waiting they sense blood in the water due to the range nerf and already started saying tower snipers are invulnerable. Which is ridiculous.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:15:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Nuetral is raw damage Commo and commando bonus Maxi is 3 damage mods and commando bonus combined and yes Armor Proficiency since snipers get +15% at max skills. Diagonal numbers are to help break apart how calculated with they are calculated stacking penalties included. There are more numbers but I cannot show them yet but we can talk about what they are. Generally mostly as someone guessed, range and few others. I changed a few things overall though The tactical would have larger magazine and the highest field endurance and be better suited for close in combat dealing portionally much higher body shot damage but lesser headshot bonus and I am pushing for increased stability so that maybe you can get full stability without the need to crouch. Charge in return however would be more of the professional weapon less of a spam weapon so while it will have the largest based damage of all regular rifles that advantage will come at the magazine drawback. The ranges I picked are looking good in map simulations so far but it is really really hard to draw circles that account for height distance loss; either way any counter sniping done with a non-sniper weapon means you ****** up in allowing that person to live long enough to get the range closed enough and generally based on running speeds of most suits you should in theory down any counter sniper if you catch them early enough. Areas that are too protected you need to keep a watch on to prevent any surprises. Any additional range changes from here I have strongly recommended reduction in scope zoom instead if needed. The ranges I am picked should also assume optimal not sure if they're going to change absolute range but Ill ask around a bit. CPM involvement is pretty high this go around but CCP still gets final say so. I am happy with the numbers I got so far. Thanks for clarifying, as for the height distance loss would it be possible to work some sort of trigonometry in there in order to allow for it? if it's based on an equilateral triangle then it would allow the distance for height sniping, don't have a clue how these things are coded so just theorizing. i'm fine with the charge rifle getting a clip adjustment but only if the ammo skill actually does it's job in delta, at the moment it's not worth the sp. also if the ammo count per clip goes down then charge rate should go down. it's fine saying that you made an error allowing somebody to get close but if it takes too long to take more than one shot... (again though you would have a clearer idea due to simulations etc, i'm mostly just pointing out that it already has draw backs compared to other rifles in order to gain it's higher damage, i.e it fires slower.) patiently waiting for news on absolute/effective.. n.b i don't think that 300 meters will cut it to be honest, also that is a huge nerf, 50% of it's range capabilities in one swing with no new positions.. tactical rifle is starting to sound interesting and along the lines that i have thought would be better for some time now. but i'm still dubious that it would get anywhere in pc.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:08:00 - [10] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Oh trust me, I'm aware. But there's only been 1 or 2 redliners who I've never been able to handle. And I do know the name of one of the biggest qqers on here....lol And there's also been quite a few times that my blues could only hack the objective (I play dom exclusively) be cause of me getting key kills/uplinks as they approached.... we are certainly becoming aware of some of them. and if i were them i'd think carefully about doing any fw. i would not want to be in their shoes.. that said i actually don't do things like that but i know others do. all i would say is that if i found myself in a position where i see an enemy about to kill one of them i wouldn't shoot too early.. after all i wouldn't want to get accused of stealing their kills.. it looks like the proposed damages are going to be one of those on the sheets, so we can get a rough idea now. don't know how it'll be chosen though, i assume the sheets are shown to ccp and they pick which one?

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:11:00 - [11] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. This is a good point. It is much easier to get a head shot against a Sniper than it is against a normal solder, because a solder on the frontline should never be standing still. So reducing damage at long range, but keeping a large head shot bonus will make the Anti-snipers more effective than the Redline Snipers. Thanks, i think this will be quite an important aspect to diminish red line snipers
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 402	Posted - 2014.09.03 09:37:00 - [12] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" when did they implement the sliding and ladder removal? did they make rooftops redline like i said? or do you die? or is it just sliding off of all the buildings? I genuinely hope your trolling, otherwise you are displaying mind numbing density. As mentioned earlier if you want to go to rooftops then you will need to invest sp Just like everyone else has. You will need to get either drop ships or long range weapons. Just like we do. We didn't just magically get given these things, we have invested time effort and sp into being effective at what we do. It's not our fault that some people can't understand that trying to pick off a sniper from 200m below with a shotgun isn't going to work.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:12:00 - [13] - Quote ooh look.....Bouncey!
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 407	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:16:00 - [14] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:02:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage Splash is being removed from all but the assault, which has a muzzle bounce that will normally prevent accurate body hits at 300m. Regular sniper forges will not be able to "near miss" oh my bad.. that makes it even then don't mate? because a sniper can always ohk? doesn't need a headshot? can still move around whilst aiming? can damage vehicles? and that particular fg is a single example.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 420	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:14:00 - [16] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen. You're dreaming bud You think that you won't get red line snipers after delta. probably move to skirmishes and just aim at home point No 1200 is not enough. Again look at the numbers.. I don't think their range should be nerfed. That was already done once and that's. When red line sniping became a problem. Before a sniper could as far as they could see,which meant nowhere was safe. However For now an effective range of 400 means to be affective you will be within that range An absolute range of five or even 600, where headshot multipliers still count will allow easy counter sniping particularly against red liners This is a twofold Discourager you will be in a poor position for effect and will be at risk from other snipers at the same time.it won't be safer in the red.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 432	Posted - 2014.09.07 14:50:00 - [17] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Symbioticforks wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I like this. This was said all along. Caldari Mandos already have the bonus to SR's right? but i'm not against a bonus for the SR specifically because I like it too. yes they do have a damage bonus.. but that is the sole reason that the dedicated snipers started to use them. because we had to skill into a suit that .has a bigger profile .less equipment slots .until recently was white! .has limited module slots .runs slow .needed to use three complex damage mods as well as level 5 just to get to less damage than other lighter suits in 1.7. it wasn't a choice.. it was do this or watch sniper rounds ping harmlessly of even the lightest frames. so i am now dead set against any other suit getting sniper rifle bonuses, or any kind of increase to pg/cpu requirements. i was forced into using it. do not even try to punish me for using it now
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 436	Posted - 2014.09.07 23:16:00 - [18] - Quote BOINGG!!!

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