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Hotfix Delta, sniper suggestions

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Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 383	Posted - 2014.09.01 15:17:00 - [1] - Quote Got a few suggestions on the snipers post delta. 1st. suggestion Get rid of them all. the only way that you will stop red line sniping is to remove it. so as the entire community is so anti sniper, turn them into marksmen rifles. that way you don't have snipers anymore. it's obviously what everybody wants. 200m maximum range, damage needs to go way up. as does headshot damage. no sway on the scope at all- as it is not a sniper rifle this is not acceptable 2nd suggestion if you are feeling slightly more reasonable towards snipers and do still believe in giving your players a sniper role to chose (at this point i genuinely doubt it ) a, lower charge times on the charge rifles the reduced range that you are introducing is counter productive to needing to charge up a rifle b, you should be getting rid of the scope sway now - you want us to come in close but keep us unable to contend with others who not only get no sway but also get aim assist. c, you need to stop including the damage modifiers into the damage profile of sniper rifles. as you obviously want snipers to be ground troops (marksmen) then they are now going to need to be able to equip other modules. you can't expect a player to play as a glass cannon going up close against other players, they are going to need to have defenses d, new scope reticules. these ring reticules are completely useless for any range sniping. we either need the new ones suggested in the other sticky thread or the old one back. ( I suggest the new one) e,these damage buffs are going to need to be immense. as you are probably intending to half the range on them then you should double the damage. (i'm deadly serious, it's proportional.) f,All headshots at proto level should now be one hit kill. and i mean clone termination. in what way would any kind of culture develop a short range sniper rifle that is not capable of at least this? they would not. because it would be a pointless weapon. as it will be on here too. Although some of these on the surface seem ott they are not, as a sniper in this game every other suit that gets within range will win in a fire fight. this cannot be the case anymore. a sniper rifle needs to be a precision tool, so the player will now be within a range that can be attacked quickly (don't try to argue there are scouts that can cross a map in seconds and lav's with heavies etc.), whilst trying to aim down scope.. that now makes them higher risk than any other weapon. because nobody else needs to do that. (before people start saying about secondary weapons-you can rely on them but then they are your new primary) don't forget that delta should be making them pc viable. I already know that no corp will want a short range sniper in a pc match. good luck with that one. in case it isn't clear i'm slightly disappointed at the moment. CCP. I have been sniping on this game over a year, i have played through the variations watching them get gradually worse. (even following the fanfest debacle) having seen some great things in the last hotfixes.. Delta was the time to finally bring them back up to parr, and it seems that your opinion is that it should be nerfed...again.. you have finally achieved it. just before a whole host of other games are released. I have lost faith in you.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 386	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:18:00 - [2] - Quote c'mon people. throw some ideas into the hat.
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 5	Posted - 2014.09.01 20:49:00 - [3] - Quote I think that even 400 meters its too long. I like to play with a sniper in certain maps, depending on the situation, but I do agree that red line snipers shouldnt exist, and 400 meters its enough for a good (really good) sniper to stay in (or close) the red line. Besides, the thing about reducing the range is all about making them leave the safe zone and force them to face certain danger, not just to kill and be bothersome without the risk of being killed too. Now, this is my opinion and I know that there may be things that Im forgetting or that I dont know, but I do think that the effective range must be reduced. There are plenty of good places in different maps to play as a sniper without the need to stay in the red line, and one last thing, about something you said about the headshot multiplier; I think thats amazing, its makes the rol of the sniper really important and intimidating, and that just makes more important to reduce the range to avoid red line snipers (again, they need to face certain danger, and again, thats my opinion and I would love to hear others).
Wasten Anti Her0s 9	Posted - 2014.09.01 21:35:00 - [4] - Quote I would like if I could snipe standing up with less sway, having to crouch all the time sux .
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1645	Posted - 2014.09.01 23:19:00 - [5] - Quote Anything below 400 makes them useless. All snipers need variable zoom. The direct damage and headshot multiplier buff will be very helpful. Shoot Scout with yes.
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 599	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:02:00 - [6] - Quote No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1954	Posted - 2014.09.02 00:34:00 - [7] - Quote I like the idea of a relatively short (for sniping) optimal range and a long falloff range with a sharp diminishing effectiveness curve while also keeping the headshot bonus.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 387	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:36:00 - [8] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I completely agree with you, but i will say this much ccp have already decided on nerfing the range, to think otherwise is to kid ourselves. 1.perches should of been added before any changes to range but thy are extremely unlikely. 2.terrain glitching/rendering issues are a real problem as are the hit detection issues. 3.as i was forced into using the calmando suit for it's damage bonus i would not be impressed to see other suits getting bonuses to sniper rifles. this why we can't nerf the absolute range.. because enemy red liners will be completely safe if we do. but if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. mikel arias although i agree with the premise of stop red line sniping there are other conditions that lead to it, it is a symptom not a cause. there are some maps where there are no good spots in the burnzone. the mechanics of the sniper rifle which make it an unreliable close range weapon. the fact that players will fall back and snipe when they are being beaten because they think it is safe. the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. and the big one, some players like to be safe...at the cost of being ineffective, some players will even afk if they are just isk farming, some because they are still learning. point is you will never force players out of the red line by nerfing range. it just won't work that way. they will happily sit out there picking of people that stray too close and going 5-0 because that is no worse than what they do now. the difference will be that they don't need to worry about being counter sniped anymore. i have pointed this out over and over again, the red line is not a synonym for range. they are two different things. because the players who red line snipe are not trying to be effective or do well, so it will not matter to them whether they get 1 kill or 5 kills. the only way to stop players abusing the red line both ways is to stop damage into or out of the red line.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 954	Posted - 2014.09.02 04:55:00 - [9] - Quote maps need to be changed. messing with snipers is after the fact once real issues have been addressed. theres no good vantage points in th area of play so people sit in the redline. the redline is there because maps are to small and it needs to be scaled back so that current redline vantage points are game area and the redline needs to be in a spot that isnt advatagous to camping while still avoiding spawn camping and give teams launching points. rendering needs to be fixed so theres no and so does the sensitivty and targeting of the sniperrifle. leading targets is impossible at long range and unless your lucky and theyre standing still you cant him them anyway. maps are just too small for the redline to do its job, all it does it provide a haven and safe zone. most of the redlines are ridges that give good views. then you notice the area within the playfield 200-300meters of the objective is usually barren lowlands where you cant hide, cant get good shots, and cant move around hidden. it throws off the entire dynamic. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:47:00 - [10] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. Do you think shortening the range helped this in any way, shape, or form at all? I personally think that with the way maps are and the generic gunning style adopted by the old and the new (mostly new) bunnies over the length of Dust has degraded sniping so far that CCP will never be able to fix it unless they go all the way to hotfix Gamma strictly studying the role and the power of the guns themselves. Don't want to make it hopeless but it still feels hopeless with the meat bags complaining all the time... Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle

George Moros RestlessSpirits 409	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:52:00 - [11] - Quote OK, here's my take on the subject... I think that reducing range of sniper rifles is far from best solution to redline sniping. IMHO, the best one would be to cancel any WP, LP or ISK reward to kills made by sniper rifles from inside redline. However, nerfing range is probably the only solution CCP can implement without client side changes. The real question is, will reduced range really solve redline sniping? I believe it will, but not entirely. In some situations, and on some maps, you could still snipe from inside redline, and perform reasonably well. However, if a player chooses sniping as his primary role, he will spend most of his time outside of redline. Taking this into account, there are some things OP mentioned that I completely agree with. Snipers are, quite literally, sitting ducks. On top of that, they're sitting ducks with tunnel vision. If someone decides to find and eliminate a sniper, it is astonishingly easy to do so (providing they are not in the redline). The only remaining "safespot" for snipers would be structures that are only accessible by dropships. But here's the catch - if you think about it, sitting on top of buildings isn't really that much different than sitting in the redline. You can only be removed either by counter sniping, or by a DS. The only difference is that DS pilot is not required to suicide. This simply begs the question - why are then rooftop snipers considered as "honorable" and redline snipers as cheaters? To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? And finally, let's ignore rooftop snipers, and assume all (or at least most) of snipers are accessible on foot. In the current balance, even a complex-dmg.-mod-stacked Cal. commando with Ishukone SR usually requires an entire clip to kill a heavy (I'm assuming body shots, and every round hitting)! So, a sniper is expected to sit still, in tunnel vision, accessible to anyone who chooses to dispose of him, without almost any effective means for self-defense (for instance, if a SG scout gets behind your back, you literally stand no chance to survive). If this is the case, then snipers should be able to be effective without the need for proto weaponry and expensive glass-cannon fits. The OP is completely correct here, If snipers are forced outside of redline, SR damage should be buffed considerably. Noone in their right mind will risk a 100k suit in order to get maybe a dozen kills, and very little else (snipers don't hack, repair, drop uplinks etc. - killing is their only source of WP), while risking to get executed by anyone not lazy enough to find them. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:02:00 - [12] - Quote George Moros wrote: Noone in their right mind will risk a 100k suit in order to get maybe a dozen kills, and very little else (snipers don't hack, repair, drop uplinks etc. - killing is their only source of WP), while risking to get executed by anyone not lazy enough to find them. This is where a tag shot or whatever implement for tagging a target would be the most useful but I don't know how it would work out in the long run considering people love to ruin roles in this game with nerfs and mass usage of whatever said weapon or suit. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:27:00 - [13] - Quote Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:37:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill Unacceptable for the reasons that sniper rifles should most definitely have more range than the forge gun unless you want to set the exmaple that a gaint blue ball travels just as far as a bullet which is designed be it fantasy or real, to go farther due to physics and the description describing said weapon. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16287	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:02:00 - [15] - Quote Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked
George Moros RestlessSpirits 409	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:43:00 - [16] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill Unacceptable for the reasons that sniper rifles should most definitely have more range than the forge gun unless you want to set the exmaple that a gaint blue ball travels just as far as a bullet which is designed be it fantasy or real, to go farther due to physics and the description describing said weapon. Not only that. Unlike snipers, forge guns OHK any suit (no need to trouble yourself with headshots), doesn't require the user to sit still, can be effective even in CQC (to some extent), and kill LAVs, HAVs, DSs and installations (which is BTW their primary and intended purpose). If the difference in range is only 20m, why would anyone use a SR instead of forge? Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2476	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:47:00 - [17] - Quote Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:58:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:04:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Sometimes I forget how to read charts and use them to my my advantage so could you explain this in layman terms? Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
George Moros RestlessSpirits 411	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:06:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. Well, I was assuming that with a range nerf, most snipers won't be in the redline (if they intend to get more than 5 kills per match). 400m range for SR would force snipers out of the redline on most (if not all) maps. They would be effective inside the redline only in situations where their team is losing and is being pushed back. In such a situation, I don't necessarily regard redline snipers as a bad thing. Pulvereus ergo queritor.

Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:18:00 - [21] - Quote George Moros wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. Well, I was assuming that with a range nerf, most snipers won't be in the redline (if they intend to get more than 5 kills per match). 400m range for SR would force snipers out of the redline on most (if not all) maps. They would be effective inside the redline only in situations where their team is losing and is being pushed back. In such a situation, I don't necessarily regard redline snipers as a bad thing. I don't disregard them either seeing as I have and will use great vantage points to my advantage while also seeing it as an adventure to go and hunt enemy redliners from another point just because i'm that type of guy. You can count on me to go sniper hunting if you get irritated by a sniper in the redline or not! Also I ABSOLUTELY LOVE taking my time of day to to hunt, distract, and/or annoy the living **** out of said snipers because it makes my day to make them mentally tired and rage at at my interference in their life!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:38:00 - [22] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:56:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment?
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:00:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:20:00 - [25] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2478	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:09:00 - [26] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc. Actually laser rifles eat a progressive damage penalty inside 30m. You have a better chance of winning with the sniper rifle in cqc. If you happen to hit someone in close you will do noticable damage. The laser rifle has the killing power of a toddler wielding a damp sock inside 30m. That being said, the sniper rifle should not be reduced below forge reach. Ever. Equal? Maybe. But not less. 250m would be too short.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:18:00 - [27] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: [quote=Snake Sellors][quote=Iron Wolf Saber] I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. No problem mate, Not too certain about the red numbers, could be changes or most common? Neutral I took to mean without proficiency Maxi means maximum, so calmando with 3 damage mods. Commo means calmando no mods. At 10% Left to right takes you through the stats for each type/ tier of rifle. (look for headers) Then each line includes % bonus damage. So line one has 1 damage mod line 2 has two going through to the calmando with three. And that sliding scale is the reason for the diagnols. Because as you go through the diagnols it accounts for adding them in to the tier above . (1st + 2nd + 3rd etc.) The tabs across the top of the page You have the sniper damage chart which is current. Appia chart which is appia's suggestion for delta and a corrected version of it. Then the iron wolf chart on the end which is iron wolf's suggestions. (my favourite one) I hope that helps. If I'm wrong then hopefully iws will point us in the right direction, but that's what I got from it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 14:27:00 - [28] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Lol, your having laugh bud. If we had any other weapon with the same range as the sniper rifle, it Would be a better choice. Lr: more mobile,has hip fire, pin point accurate. Scr: has charge shot,hip fire,mobility Cr.rof,mobility, can be used up close, Tac ar: rof, high accuracy, mobility Rr: smaller faster version of the Sr. Plc, one shot kill, can kill vehicles, hip fire, more mobility I honestly could make this point for any of the anti infantry weapons. I don't have a huge problem with it, but you won't get the community to agree to a 400m lasers You are Also forgetting the penalties for the Long range, I will be fine with any of the above having the same range as long as they too need to crouch, aim down sights, have a low rof and small clip sizes and no hip fire. With other weapons you aren't defenseless in cqc. Actually laser rifles eat a progressive damage penalty inside 30m. You have a better chance of winning with the sniper rifle in cqc. If you happen to hit someone in close you will do noticable damage. The laser rifle has the killing power of a toddler wielding a damp sock inside 30m. That being said, the sniper rifle should not be reduced below forge reach. Ever. Equal? Maybe. But not less. 250m would be too short. To be honest the laser wouldn't be the best bet. You need to keep it running before you get your damage it doesn't rely on alpha damage. As for it not being fair to have tower snipers. That is just stupid. I have had to skill into drop ships and long range weapons to use that strategy. It was a deliberate choice. My main vulnerability is against ads so I carry a swarm launcher. You are supposed to adapt. If you are finding tower snipers a real problem then put sp into dropships. Doesn't need to be an ads just go up there and kill them. It is a valid tactic because it does not require suicide to counter. As for how long before players try to stop that too..they aren't waiting they sense blood in the water due to the range nerf and already started saying tower snipers are invulnerable. Which is ridiculous.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 15:47:00 - [29] - Quote the towers are not the problem on ANY map. I can kill snipers in EVERY SINGLE TOWER on every map in the game with a forge gun. So no. Tower sniping is fine because it is well within the range of counterfire. It's certain hills on certain maps that are deep in the redline that have headshot glitch issues, and are so distant that the snipers do not render, making them invisible AND tapping targets across the map. That's the problem Rattati was mentioning. The game does NOT render opponents who are not within the absolute range of your weapon at all. No red reticle, no visual, the sniper shot contrail also fails to render. That's what they mean by "zero-risk" snipers. You can utilize a Thale rifle from just outside the max range of an enemy sniper. they will render, you will not, because your weapon has a better range maximum, therefore your draw distance is longer. That's why 320m is my suggestion. You do not fall outside the draw distance of the enemy, and are thusly not untouchable without a dropship.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16291	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:28:00 - [30] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Nuetral is raw damage Commo and commando bonus Maxi is 3 damage mods and commando bonus combined and yes Armor Proficiency since snipers get +15% at max skills. Diagonal numbers are to help break apart how calculated with they are calculated stacking penalties included. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Large Blaster =// Unlocked



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