DUST Search - Hotfix Delta, sniper suggestions

Mike De Luca wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Mike De Luca wrote:

400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range.

This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable.

Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two.

I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them.

Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative.

Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle


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Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 09:47:00 - [1] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: the fact that even on maps with a range of decent vantages the best ones on those maps are often in the red lines still the fact that some of the best vantage points that were in the burnzone were removed. Do you think shortening the range helped this in any way, shape, or form at all? I personally think that with the way maps are and the generic gunning style adopted by the old and the new (mostly new) bunnies over the length of Dust has degraded sniping so far that CCP will never be able to fix it unless they go all the way to hotfix Gamma strictly studying the role and the power of the guns themselves. Don't want to make it hopeless but it still feels hopeless with the meat bags complaining all the time... Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:02:00 - [2] - Quote George Moros wrote: Noone in their right mind will risk a 100k suit in order to get maybe a dozen kills, and very little else (snipers don't hack, repair, drop uplinks etc. - killing is their only source of WP), while risking to get executed by anyone not lazy enough to find them. This is where a tag shot or whatever implement for tagging a target would be the most useful but I don't know how it would work out in the long run considering people love to ruin roles in this game with nerfs and mass usage of whatever said weapon or suit. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 83	Posted - 2014.09.02 10:37:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snipers should park at 320 effective 320 absolute. Put them within reach of forge guns (and keep forges in their kill range) and rail tanks, and keep them close enough to the redline edge that a scout can haul balls in with a rifle to attempt a kill. Any range increment that makes it so only snipers can kill them is bad, because there needs to be a counter. The traditionsl military response to snipers is actually artillery/mortars. Yes snipers are that hated/critical to kill Unacceptable for the reasons that sniper rifles should most definitely have more range than the forge gun unless you want to set the exmaple that a gaint blue ball travels just as far as a bullet which is designed be it fantasy or real, to go farther due to physics and the description describing said weapon. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 11:58:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. I'm not against that at all! Glad we came to an agreement!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:04:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Sometimes I forget how to read charts and use them to my my advantage so could you explain this in layman terms? Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 12:18:00 - [6] - Quote George Moros wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Also has no zoom. Most good snipers are heads poking over hills. If a sniper hides In the redline he needs to be reachable from outside the redline by something other than a sniper rifle Id agree with 400m if the laser rifle range is buffed to match. Shorter optimal of course, but an effective that will let you cut the snipers head off. Well, I was assuming that with a range nerf, most snipers won't be in the redline (if they intend to get more than 5 kills per match). 400m range for SR would force snipers out of the redline on most (if not all) maps. They would be effective inside the redline only in situations where their team is losing and is being pushed back. In such a situation, I don't necessarily regard redline snipers as a bad thing. I don't disregard them either seeing as I have and will use great vantage points to my advantage while also seeing it as an adventure to go and hunt enemy redliners from another point just because i'm that type of guy. You can count on me to go sniper hunting if you get irritated by a sniper in the redline or not! Also I ABSOLUTELY LOVE taking my time of day to to hunt, distract, and/or annoy the living **** out of said snipers because it makes my day to make them mentally tired and rage at at my interference in their life!! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 13:20:00 - [7] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:45:00 - [8] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 88	Posted - 2014.09.05 02:48:00 - [9] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:56:00 - [10] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 1200 is more than enough If you need more use the charge More than 400 meters allows redline snipers We already know snipers are getting a range nerf 400 meters is the most range they should get 1200 isn't going to cut it at the rate of increasing cloakers, the hmg everyone thinks is going to get nerf but still rule, and also role destroyers like FOTM **tards, * whiners calling cheating (David Mustane), and finally idiots who wish to remove the redline snipers but also end up ing up it for the snipers who really want to snipe and support their squad/team. All I see COD like tryhards who don't know that there is a such thing as cover in this game without exploiting the mechanics of it. BTW I don't judge people or groups from a one time thing; I judge from an over time perspective and have seen many go into the scrub dust bunny way of life after enough time playing.... GIT GUD at staying whatyou initially wanted to be in this game and it wouldn't have fell so low since both the cummunity and the makers are ** in the head! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle

Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:22:00 - [11] - Quote Also redline sniping really started because of these points: The best and most vantage points are in the red People got tired of getting proto stomped fresh out of the academy and decided instead of suicide it's better to stay back to save clones Some knew the exploits of the game and purposefully used that to their advantage Most if not all of the dust community don't want to a lot of waste isk either because their saving for something or just plain saving Many could be spending a game to try and train themselves to use DS like I used to do before I hoped in a missile tank In the red is also the best way to test isk costing fits before moving to a position down field Some people have friends or rivals on the opposite side who they want to have a friendly competition with or just want to **** with them just to send a message or have a almost pure one-on-one match during the game if they know the rival or friend likes to counter snipe or redline rush because it gives them excitement Lastly.... and pay attention... Some people have fun using patience and timing instead of just being some run n' gun meat bag on the field because they love the disarray, caution, fear, respect (and yes some people DO respect a sniper redline or not picking off a target at the right time saving a blueberry a fit and clone before them go broke), and all out chaos with a side of rage they get when they ping or kill you enough to make YOU go broke while they just see a bottle of QQ tears sitting on their table I love it!! It gives off a taste just little bit different than the orphan tears YFM gave me! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 98	Posted - 2014.09.07 08:17:00 - [12] - Quote Skyline Lonewolf wrote: Keeriam Miray wrote: Skyline Lonewolf wrote: In a previous post I suggested that sway reduction should be included with either proficiency or as you increase in SR tier, with the amount of time required to have sway be at zero lower with higher tiers/proficiency. Since they are buffing damage and head shot multiplier, while nerfing range, I can see it falling under proficiency, if not straight up coming with the weapons as you advance in tiers. That way we can move around the map and snipe. I'm not sure, however, if that'd need a client update or not. Client update not needed. And SR operation already reduce sway 5% per lvl it's just 25% at max, but sway always resets when unscoping. Maybe add it to operation then as 2 in 1. So add in reduce sway by 1% in the profiency? Because that doesn't seem all that bad. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 98	Posted - 2014.09.07 08:30:00 - [13] - Quote Symbioticforks wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: No range nerf. Sniper = extreme range. You reduce range, redline shooters stay in the redline, but can't be countersniped as easily. Better fixes: -Put perches back in the common battle area -Fix terrain glitching -Give sniper rifles a scout suit CPU/PG bonus, like cloaks, so people can't heavy-snipe and tank Legit snipers return to the main area, redline shooters can't head-gltich and are vulnerable to countersniping. I like this. This was said all along. Caldari Mandos already have the bonus to SR's right? but i'm not against a bonus for the SR specifically because I like it too. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle