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Hotfix Delta, sniper suggestions

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Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 287	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:32:00 - [31] - Quote 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. What will really help more as most have already said, is changing he maps so that we have actual places INSIDE the combat area, or for them to be bigger, but that would lead to endless qq about them as I've heard from some vets talking about the old days before I started playing. As far as damage/hs buff goes, I'm only going to speak for the charge since that's all I use, but liking the Appia's numbers from IWS' spreadsheet link. Would also like a suit other than the calmando (preferrably scout) getting a boost of some type for sniping, maybe the cal light since some are trying to work some boost into them and it would fit the best game wise, thinking fitting reduction/reload speed. Just day dreaming on the last paragraph. what i think of when charging fg
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2479	Posted - 2014.09.02 16:49:00 - [32] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 391	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:15:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 Liking the look of these numbers looking at your iws sheet. A few tweaks to functionality and we could be there. I'm assuming using these stats includes keeping sway and a range somewhere near 400m? How about an effective falloff post 400? Some less sway on tac rifles to allow for closer delployment? Headshots vs armour terminate clones, but not vs shields? Enemy tagging ability, could be an attack order that snipers can put down? The last two are just for strategic use of snipers, particularly in pc matches. I having trouble understanding the charts: What are the red numbers? What is "Nuetral"? What is "Maxi"? What is "Commo"? I see six different numbers going diagonally.. Is that all for one basic type or something else i'm not understanding? I'm only guessing that "Armor Pro" would be proficiency? If you haven't noticed i'm realllly stupid when it comes to reading excel charts and I also haven't went to sleep in close to a day now so it may just be my brain but any help understanding would be good for me and sorry for the stupidity. Nuetral is raw damage Commo and commando bonus Maxi is 3 damage mods and commando bonus combined and yes Armor Proficiency since snipers get +15% at max skills. Diagonal numbers are to help break apart how calculated with they are calculated stacking penalties included. There are more numbers but I cannot show them yet but we can talk about what they are. Generally mostly as someone guessed, range and few others. I changed a few things overall though The tactical would have larger magazine and the highest field endurance and be better suited for close in combat dealing portionally much higher body shot damage but lesser headshot bonus and I am pushing for increased stability so that maybe you can get full stability without the need to crouch. Charge in return however would be more of the professional weapon less of a spam weapon so while it will have the largest based damage of all regular rifles that advantage will come at the magazine drawback. The ranges I picked are looking good in map simulations so far but it is really really hard to draw circles that account for height distance loss; either way any counter sniping done with a non-sniper weapon means you ****** up in allowing that person to live long enough to get the range closed enough and generally based on running speeds of most suits you should in theory down any counter sniper if you catch them early enough. Areas that are too protected you need to keep a watch on to prevent any surprises. Any additional range changes from here I have strongly recommended reduction in scope zoom instead if needed. The ranges I am picked should also assume optimal not sure if they're going to change absolute range but Ill ask around a bit. CPM involvement is pretty high this go around but CCP still gets final say so. I am happy with the numbers I got so far. Thanks for clarifying, as for the height distance loss would it be possible to work some sort of trigonometry in there in order to allow for it? if it's based on an equilateral triangle then it would allow the distance for height sniping, don't have a clue how these things are coded so just theorizing. i'm fine with the charge rifle getting a clip adjustment but only if the ammo skill actually does it's job in delta, at the moment it's not worth the sp. also if the ammo count per clip goes down then charge rate should go down. it's fine saying that you made an error allowing somebody to get close but if it takes too long to take more than one shot... (again though you would have a clearer idea due to simulations etc, i'm mostly just pointing out that it already has draw backs compared to other rifles in order to gain it's higher damage, i.e it fires slower.) patiently waiting for news on absolute/effective.. n.b i don't think that 300 meters will cut it to be honest, also that is a huge nerf, 50% of it's range capabilities in one swing with no new positions.. tactical rifle is starting to sound interesting and along the lines that i have thought would be better for some time now. but i'm still dubious that it would get anywhere in pc.
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 287	Posted - 2014.09.02 17:31:00 - [34] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. what i think of when charging fg
TheEnd762 SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 603	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:05:00 - [35] - Quote George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!"
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 85	Posted - 2014.09.02 18:45:00 - [36] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4129	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:02:00 - [37] - Quote I agree that reducing Optimal range without reducing Effective range would be the best way of making it difficult to get kills from the red line and encourage Snipers to move forward, while not nerfing the Sniper RifleGÇÖs ability to reach across the map completely. I also like the idea of a larger head shot bonus, which would make Sniping a more skill based occupation. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4130	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:15:00 - [38] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. This is a good point. It is much easier to get a head shot against a Sniper than it is against a normal solder, because a solder on the frontline should never be standing still. So reducing damage at long range, but keeping a large head shot bonus will make the Anti-snipers more effective than the Redline Snipers. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 288	Posted - 2014.09.02 19:35:00 - [39] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Oh trust me, I'm aware. But there's only been 1 or 2 redliners who I've never been able to handle. And I do know the name of one of the biggest qqers on here....lol And there's also been quite a few times that my blues could only hack the objective (I play dom exclusively) be cause of me getting key kills/uplinks as they approached.... what i think of when charging fg
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:08:00 - [40] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: 400m effective, 500m absolute. Will not completely kill redlining, but will stunt it pretty good and also NOT screw over real snipers who shoot from outside the redline. My personal belief is that any shorter would completely kill the role due to the lack of spots on most maps in the 2-300m range. This does not address draw distance invisibility. You can be 200m inside the redline and be outside the draw distance of every enemy infantryman on the field except another sniper who's scoped in. Not acceptable. Look, the lowest I'd be willing to go is 350m effective, it's a sniper rifle, it should rightfully be the longest range weapon in the game. it is a VERY fine line between getting rid of redliners and snipers outside having a good choice in locations to use, so they're not as predictable. This is just the best I can figure that comes halfway between the two. I'm just concerned about the role itself to be honest man, draw distance is a technical part of the game I'm just not concerned with, especially when I can be 350+m out n still be found rather easily by anyway who takes a minute, even by a non sniper.. And even if draw distance was the same for everything(will never be for a fg, due to the lack of ads for it, so it'd have to render an entire dom map and all activity almost), if they position themselves correctly, you won't see anything unless they're skylining their head, which'll just be a tiny dot at that range that you'd probably miss trying to quick scan for them. Snipers are to an extent, predictable just due to map design. Where's he gonna go? Spot where he has a great view. Where are people when they get shot? There. Ok, that blocks this 3/4 of the map off. If you've been playing for awhile, those 2 things are enough to find n kill a sniper, with the already limited non redline positions unless the sniper is VERY creative. Some people don't want to take them time out of their day to run and hunt but instead automatically think that some if not most of these snipers know the names of the QQers who call for nerfs and don't help them specifically for this reasons. Hell sometimes the snipers on your team, if any, can't get rid of the red sniper themselves and need help but the popular attitude is to complain about both your and the enemy snipers and still run around like a ant being ignorant and not even trying to pick up a sniper themselves. Just common day to day COD-like behavior in a game where snipers actually get a chance to use range effectively. Oh trust me, I'm aware. But there's only been 1 or 2 redliners who I've never been able to handle. And I do know the name of one of the biggest qqers on here....lol And there's also been quite a few times that my blues could only hack the objective (I play dom exclusively) be cause of me getting key kills/uplinks as they approached.... we are certainly becoming aware of some of them. and if i were them i'd think carefully about doing any fw. i would not want to be in their shoes.. that said i actually don't do things like that but i know others do. all i would say is that if i found myself in a position where i see an enemy about to kill one of them i wouldn't shoot too early.. after all i wouldn't want to get accused of stealing their kills.. it looks like the proposed damages are going to be one of those on the sheets, so we can get a rough idea now. don't know how it'll be chosen though, i assume the sheets are shown to ccp and they pick which one?

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 400	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:11:00 - [41] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: if we get a lower effective range, but keep the headshot multiplier on the absolute range then you will get a weaker headshot at extreme ranges which could be enough to deal with red liners but it would be ineffective to try to rely on the extreme distance headshots for redline sniping. i.e the counter sniper will be able to kill the red line sniper and vice versa due to headshots but a red line sniper would have to land headshots on every target to do any real damage and would need to probably land more than one to get a kill. This is a good point. It is much easier to get a head shot against a Sniper than it is against a normal solder, because a solder on the frontline should never be standing still. So reducing damage at long range, but keeping a large head shot bonus will make the Anti-snipers more effective than the Redline Snipers. Thanks, i think this will be quite an important aspect to diminish red line snipers
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 291	Posted - 2014.09.02 23:24:00 - [42] - Quote [/quote] we are certainly becoming aware of some of them. and if i were them i'd think carefully about doing any fw. i would not want to be in their shoes.. that said i actually don't do things like that but i know others do. all i would say is that if i found myself in a position where i see an enemy about to kill one of them i wouldn't shoot too early.. after all i wouldn't want to get accused of stealing their kills.. it looks like the proposed damages are going to be one of those on the sheets, so we can get a rough idea now. don't know how it'll be chosen though, i assume the sheets are shown to ccp and they pick which one? [/quote] Not sure on the process, but if I had to choose, Appia's original #'s for my charge ....the rest can be whatever lol Edit: Oops, quote fail...fk it I'm too lazy to fix it what i think of when charging fg
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 961	Posted - 2014.09.03 02:18:00 - [43] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" when did they implement the sliding and ladder removal? did they make rooftops redline like i said? or do you die? or is it just sliding off of all the buildings? Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 402	Posted - 2014.09.03 09:37:00 - [44] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" when did they implement the sliding and ladder removal? did they make rooftops redline like i said? or do you die? or is it just sliding off of all the buildings? I genuinely hope your trolling, otherwise you are displaying mind numbing density. As mentioned earlier if you want to go to rooftops then you will need to invest sp Just like everyone else has. You will need to get either drop ships or long range weapons. Just like we do. We didn't just magically get given these things, we have invested time effort and sp into being effective at what we do. It's not our fault that some people can't understand that trying to pick off a sniper from 200m below with a shotgun isn't going to work.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:12:00 - [45] - Quote ooh look.....Bouncey!
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.04 19:21:00 - [46] - Quote 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 407	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:16:00 - [47] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2543	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:35:00 - [48] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage Splash is being removed from all but the assault, which has a muzzle bounce that will normally prevent accurate body hits at 300m. Regular sniper forges will not be able to "near miss"
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 408	Posted - 2014.09.04 22:02:00 - [49] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage Splash is being removed from all but the assault, which has a muzzle bounce that will normally prevent accurate body hits at 300m. Regular sniper forges will not be able to "near miss" oh my bad.. that makes it even then don't mate? because a sniper can always ohk? doesn't need a headshot? can still move around whilst aiming? can damage vehicles? and that particular fg is a single example.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.04 23:51:00 - [50] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up

Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 88	Posted - 2014.09.05 02:48:00 - [51] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
PROPHET HELLSCREAM UNSVER UNITED 4	Posted - 2014.09.05 10:43:00 - [52] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: please change the charge rifles sound effect when charging. you`re so right... i hate that sound... and i can agree with somethings you describe but we: - don`t need to nerf ranges; - need that headshots thing to be reviewed (i have a good % of headshots per game so if i can kill those heavy guys more easily, then cool); Hobby: Headshot on cloaked units
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.05 13:39:00 - [53] - Quote Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 420	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:14:00 - [54] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: 400 damage 3x headshot multiplayer 250-300? Meter range Balenced snipers Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen. You're dreaming bud You think that you won't get red line snipers after delta. probably move to skirmishes and just aim at home point No 1200 is not enough. Again look at the numbers.. I don't think their range should be nerfed. That was already done once and that's. When red line sniping became a problem. Before a sniper could as far as they could see,which meant nowhere was safe. However For now an effective range of 400 means to be affective you will be within that range An absolute range of five or even 600, where headshot multipliers still count will allow easy counter sniping particularly against red liners This is a twofold Discourager you will be in a poor position for effect and will be at risk from other snipers at the same time.it won't be safer in the red.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1610	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:58:00 - [55] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Sclompton Face-Smasher wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Not really going to work. range is too short..a large amount of positions aren't inside those ranges no changes to function to support closer play. headshots won't do enough damage.. they will be directly competing with forge guns, whilst sitting still whereas the forge gunner can still still move and will definately get a ohk, another fact is that even if they miss they can still do damage.. splash damage within the same ranges sniper rifles are not the better choice of weapon. base damage is too low, on a miss then the sniper is in serious trouble or with a hit it won't be a kill. still leaving the sniper in trouble. Please have a look at the suggested numbers. 1200 dmg isn't enough? Wat? Also, forgeguns have travel time and no zoom. Forge guns also need a charge up Forge snipers at best use assault forges and I, in video and during playtime, have not seen or had any issue forge sniping whatsoever even with charge because I know it's going where I want it to... Also as Snake said range is too short because there aren't alot of vantage points within that range if any at all while adding the fact that there aren't many maps and the maps are all predictable! Also a warning if you turn snipers into a run-n-gun type play it will be useless because who in their right mind would want to crouch and be still in those ranges like an idiot? Increase base damage exponentially if want that ugly role that you would call a "sniper". The whole point of the decreased range snipers are getting is to get them out of the redline. Past 400 meters and redline sniping is still going to happen. You're dreaming bud You think that you won't get red line snipers after delta. probably move to skirmishes and just aim at home point No 1200 is not enough. Again look at the numbers.. I don't think their range should be nerfed. That was already done once and that's. When red line sniping became a problem. Before a sniper could as far as they could see,which meant nowhere was safe. However For now an effective range of 400 means to be affective you will be within that range An absolute range of five or even 600, where headshot multipliers still count will allow easy counter sniping particularly against red liners This is a twofold Discourager you will be in a poor position for effect and will be at risk from other snipers at the same time.it won't be safer in the red. 1200 is more than enough If you need more use the charge More than 400 meters allows redline snipers We already know snipers are getting a range nerf 400 meters is the most range they should get
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:56:00 - [56] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: 1200 is more than enough If you need more use the charge More than 400 meters allows redline snipers We already know snipers are getting a range nerf 400 meters is the most range they should get 1200 isn't going to cut it at the rate of increasing cloakers, the hmg everyone thinks is going to get nerf but still rule, and also role destroyers like FOTM **tards, * whiners calling cheating (David Mustane), and finally idiots who wish to remove the redline snipers but also end up ing up it for the snipers who really want to snipe and support their squad/team. All I see COD like tryhards who don't know that there is a such thing as cover in this game without exploiting the mechanics of it. BTW I don't judge people or groups from a one time thing; I judge from an over time perspective and have seen many go into the scrub dust bunny way of life after enough time playing.... GIT GUD at staying whatyou initially wanted to be in this game and it wouldn't have fell so low since both the cummunity and the makers are ** in the head! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 91	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:22:00 - [57] - Quote Also redline sniping really started because of these points: The best and most vantage points are in the red People got tired of getting proto stomped fresh out of the academy and decided instead of suicide it's better to stay back to save clones Some knew the exploits of the game and purposefully used that to their advantage Most if not all of the dust community don't want to a lot of waste isk either because their saving for something or just plain saving Many could be spending a game to try and train themselves to use DS like I used to do before I hoped in a missile tank In the red is also the best way to test isk costing fits before moving to a position down field Some people have friends or rivals on the opposite side who they want to have a friendly competition with or just want to **** with them just to send a message or have a almost pure one-on-one match during the game if they know the rival or friend likes to counter snipe or redline rush because it gives them excitement Lastly.... and pay attention... Some people have fun using patience and timing instead of just being some run n' gun meat bag on the field because they love the disarray, caution, fear, respect (and yes some people DO respect a sniper redline or not picking off a target at the right time saving a blueberry a fit and clone before them go broke), and all out chaos with a side of rage they get when they ping or kill you enough to make YOU go broke while they just see a bottle of QQ tears sitting on their table I love it!! It gives off a taste just little bit different than the orphan tears YFM gave me! Playstyle: Scout, Passionate In-bred Sniper, Support, and Enemy finder Weapon: Pro Shotty, Sniper, and Scrambler Rifle
Skyline Lonewolf Ancient Exiles. 41	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:10:00 - [58] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: George Moros wrote: To put it in another way - how much time will it need for forum whiners to start insisting that rooftop snipers are in fact also cheaters, and they should be nerfed? They already did that. That's why a bunch of ladders and perches were removed, and we just slide off the top of spires. I'm going to laugh when the range is nerfed, and instead of a couple redline snipers here and there, we just have straight AFK ISK farmers doing NOTHING at all. And people will be like "why did this happen?!" Rooftop snipers are predictable, sitting ducks, and easily countered via SR or DS. They're well within the map, so I wouldn't say they're cheaters. Bring back shark fins/spires and let us be able to provide overwatch from there. The problem weren't the shark fins themselves, but that people could slide in and out of the thing on top of them and negate damage - easily fixable. Destination: Destiny. I see you coming from a mile away. 18 KDR > ReGnYuM Twitter: SkylineExplicit
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 230	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:56:00 - [59] - Quote I'd like to point out that the reasoning behind CCP wanting to end redline sniping is that a playstyle's counter should not be only itself. In other games, in real life, in a perfect world, something else besides snipers can kill snipers. Allowing them to be killed by sneaky stealth shotgunners, dedicated assaults, or pissed off lucky Mass Drivers means that snipers have to do something in this game that they should be doing...changing positions after they are found. At the moment it's silly that a sniper doesn't have to move. That being the case - I kinda agree with some snipers that they should be able to stand and shoot. I mean there is a delay between bringing up zoom and the sway stopping right? Just make it short for crouching and long for standing -- but allow snipers to stop swaying when standing if they wait in the zoom long enough. I think we'd have some more mid range support snipers this way.
Keeriam Miray R 0 N 1 N 333	Posted - 2014.09.06 01:32:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hi I been working with the community on snipers and would like to share some results if you want to throw a model number up for me to plug in let me know. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WS0ehQhSl9Dk-Py4QVeXyYEHiIY2uvDIH1NtufutOyM/edit#gid=0 With your suggestions (IWS list) to charge & tactical we taking 1 step forward & 2 steps back in fixing sniping & "Sumo sniping". You just actually forcing players for Sumo + LAV combo sniping (due to resistances on Amarr & Gallente Sentinels) with range nerf. Try to imagine and understand consequences, there still will be no way to kill them 1 vs 1. Maps are not changed, old maps like Manus Peak has redline literally everywhere, range nerf even to 300m won't affect Sumo sniping on those maps. LAV righ behind you alows you to avoid kamikadze in dropships with hmg. Charge is alredy most low dps SR, there no needs to nerf it. Tac. most high dps & the only SR that can counter snipe suits with slightly less than 1k hp, because of rof, nefing it (changing playstile) will take away that only possibility. Unless we got heavy suits restricted from using light weapons, we have commandos for that with 2 light weapons slots. About Symbioticforks lists... sorry man but boosting raw dmg will turn it into "noob tube" weapon where one half of playrbase will pop onother with single shot to any bodypart... and we have same problems like above. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦-ï-+ -+-+-¦-¦-é -¦-ï-é-î -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦. -í-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦, -ü-ç-¦-ü-é-+-+-¦...



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