DUST Search - The current meta.

All Channels

General Discussions

The current meta.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
CamClarke Inner.Hell 60	Posted - 2014.08.26 14:18:00 - [1] - Quote I'd like this to be a constructive thread discussing the current CQC/Scout/Sentinel meta. Please, share your thoughts on it. Below are my own personal opinions and observations on it, colored with large amounts of butthurt because I mad. They largely relate to Skirmish maps. I am quite fed up with this current meta. I appreciate that Rattati is trying, really, I do, but the proliferation of unscannable (some even with a gk.0 logi's Focused Active Scanner, which has poor angle, recharge, and scan duration) shotgun scouts combined with the ungodly amounts of Sentinel spam is quickly making it so there is no reason to use anything else. Anything that can't see EVERYTHING dies horribly, unless it has 1.8k EHP and moves only slightly faster than the average snail. CQC is very obviously the new meta, as competent cloaked scouts no longer have to fear being spotted by anything, can outstrafe non-alpha weapons if they are spotted, and can provide nearly as much (or more, thanks to speed) logistics power as people that spent 2 million SP on a real logistics suit. CQC is so widespread that I am actually having more success in stopping Scouts/Sentinels while solo with a STD shotgun on a STD assault than with most PRO rifles on other fits. My frustration lies in that what suits I do have (Caldari Assault, Caldari Commando, and Gallente Logistics) are worthless when compared to the Scouts and Sentinels. An Assault is still non-viable, as they can't pick up anything smaller than a dump truck on passive scans, and even then it's only when they're almost right on top of you. Chances are, it's a Sentinel, with a Six Kin BHMG, so if you do try to run and get some range on him, he's still coming around that corner and killing you in one or two bursts. You'll never see a Scout on passive in a non-Scout suit, even completely undampened, so they can always get the drop on you, killing you instantly. Medium suits are the prey of unseen Scouts and monstrous Sentinels, both of which Medium-class suits have a difficult time dealing with due to the fact that Mediums are mediocre at everything. Sure, you can get into a position where you can provide overwatch, but any Commando does that job better. Gallente Logistics would be good, were it not for the fact that ever since Active Scanners were nerfed into oblivion, Scouts can simply see more, more often, in 360 degrees, while fighting effectively. Being "useful" as a Gallente Logistics involves staying in one safe, preferably ladderless rooftop location cycling two or more scanners, as they lack the HP to get in the fighting without dying almost immediately. If bricked, they move about as fast as an Amarr Sentinel, so they cannot dodge or reach cover. If not bricked, they still do not move very fast, and die even faster because passive reps are completely irrelevant in the current state of the game. Either way, Logistics suits lack the damage capabilities necessary for dealing with Sentinels and cannot evade a competent Scout under most circumstances long enough to kill it. Apparently Minmatar Logistics are pretty good at keeping the Sentinel swarm up and running, but that's probably the only thing any of the four Logistics can do that a scout cannot do just as well or better. It seems like the only viable non-Scout, non-Sentinel suits are the Caldari Commando and Minmatar Commando, both of which require you to sit in one good position and do nothing else but provide overwatch/shoot at vehicles. Caldari has the Rail Rifle, so can provide top-notch rifle-based overwatch once perched with Swarms as AV backup, while the Minmatar Commando has Mass Drivers, Swarm Launchers, and Combat Rifles, giving them a little bit of ground power and decent overwatch, but mostly used for easy AV with its big bonus to Swarms. I'm happy that Scouts and Sentinels are having fun with their time in the sun, but it is the entire Medium suit range that is paying the price. Mediums have nothing to call their own, and are outperformed at almost every turn. Literally half of the available dropsuits (4 Assaults, 4 Logistics, 2 Commandos) have been marginalized due to their jobs being able to be done better by the other half (4 Sentinels, 4 Scouts, 2 Commandos). I have no ideas on how to fix it though, since the game is actually in the most balanced state it's been in since Chromosome. Can't give Assaults more damage, otherwise they push out Commandos. Can't give them more equipment slots, pushes out Logistics. Can't give them eWar, because it'll still be worthless on non-Scouts. They just got a HP buff, which, while welcome and breathed a little life into them, was simply not enough to overcome their other problems. They are simply the kings of mediocrity. Being a jack of all trades in a game were you MUST be a master of at least one is a recipe for having a bad time. Their only value is in a pub match, where they will still be HMG'd and shotgunned until forced to rage quit. Can't give Logistics more HP, otherwise they push out Assaults. Can't give them damage, can't give them eWar, they're fine on equipment. They share most problems of Assaults, while being even more dependent on teammates to make up for their myriad weaknesses. I honestly do not know what the underlying problem is that is making HMGs/Shotguns suddenly so amazing and the go-to weapons. At what point did the rifles become useless? Was it the nerfs to all of them? Or was it a chain reaction of Scouts getting cloaks, using rifles, then people switching to Sentinel to gun them and everyone else down, then Scouts switching to the high-alpha Shotguns to kill the Sentinels? The current meta has been a massive source of frustration to me while I wait to get the SP to chase the FOTM myself just to stay relevant. My only solace is that the triple SP week starts tomorrow, which will put me all of halfway to my goal. With an Omega booster. tl;dr: scout and heavy qq, i need to git gud, etc etc
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 389	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:06:00 - [2] - Quote CamClarke wrote: Gallente Logistics would be good, were it not for the fact that ever since Active Scanners were nerfed into oblivion, Scouts can simply see more, more often, in 360 degrees, while fighting effectively. Being "useful" as a Gallente Logistics involves staying in one safe, preferably ladderless rooftop location cycling two or more scanners, as they lack the HP to get in the fighting without dying almost immediately. If bricked, they move about as fast as an Amarr Sentinel, so they cannot dodge or reach cover. If not bricked, they still do not move very fast, and die even faster because passive reps are completely irrelevant in the current state of the game. Either way, Logistics suits lack the damage capabilities necessary for dealing with Sentinels and cannot evade a competent Scout under most circumstances long enough to kill it. Apparently Minmatar Logistics are pretty good at keeping the Sentinel swarm up and running, but that's probably the only thing any of the four Logistics can do that a scout cannot do just as well or better. It seems like the only viable non-Scout, non-Sentinel suits are the Caldari Commando and Minmatar Commando, both of which require you to sit in one good position and do nothing else but provide overwatch/shoot at vehicles. tl;dr: scout and heavy qq, i need to git gud, etc etc I've been using the Gal logi since 1.0 (now with full proto goodness) and my suit hasn't changed much even with the nerfs and buffs. I would argue that you can be really useful as a logi if you know your roll and play it as such. I was in a PC match breaking corp doctrine about needles and we barely won on clone count vs MCC. Even though I was told "we dont run needles in PC" I haven't changed my suit ever and considering we won with 1 clone on the map, I think it worked out. That being said, logis were never meant to be slayers, they're support suits first, bad killers second. Play it like that instead of as an assault suit with more equipment and you'll generally do better. The Gal Commando (ADV gear) I have is a lot of fun and I do quite well with it. CR and TAR and some adv armor mods and adv dmg mod. Can take a fair amount of abuse and can rep its self with the 2 repping hives I have on it. Are there better suits out there? Probably. Every suit has pros and cons, that's the point. The "meta" (FOTM) doesn't matter. Let the chasers have their shotguns and invisible suits. They'll get nerfed, again, and then we'll be on to the next FOTM.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4382	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:11:00 - [3] - Quote I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4382	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:15:00 - [4] - Quote Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run. I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1257	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:51:00 - [5] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run. I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day. right now you will see 3 OP things that dominate in PC. shotgun scouts spaming REs, heavys 6kin burst HMG, ADS. i run assault and don't get me wrong it is hardmode but it can be done and done well. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5729	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:52:00 - [6] - Quote Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5729	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:53:00 - [7] - Quote P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cass Caul 917	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:56:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Last time I saw a Dev play, I sent a mail to them. Subject: GG Body: You almost went KDR Positive Which server do you play on I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Cass Caul 918	Posted - 2014.08.26 15:59:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2504	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:00:00 - [10] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 238	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:03:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev What do you mean bring your A game? You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks..
Cass Caul 918	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:05:00 - [12] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead. 900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them. I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5737	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:06:00 - [13] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4386	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:08:00 - [14] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run. I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day. right now you will see 3 OP things that dominate in PC. shotgun scouts spaming REs, heavys 6kin burst HMG, ADS. i run assault and don't get me wrong it is hardmode but it can be done and done well. As long as you have those things you mentioned covered and use the assaults and other stuff to supplement you are good. If you don't have passive scans you'll get eaten alive in the city by those Gal Scouts. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4386	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:09:00 - [15] - Quote Changing uplinks to a lower number of variants and applying skills as bonuses instead of 10 different variants to eliminate spam would change the meta in HUGE ways. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 239	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:09:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked Fair enough man hahaha.
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 3324	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:11:00 - [17] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. I love seeing heavies with shotguns.. They make me smile Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Arirana Pure Evil. 713	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:20:00 - [18] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. I love seeing heavies with shotguns.. They make me smile Seeing one camp in the null cannon panel covering in a dom makes my smile even wider
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4789	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:24:00 - [19] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2183	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:39:00 - [20] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever. Nerf it to its previous stats or leave it the same, makes no difference to me. Assault HMG is the only one that's truly horrible. Umm people who complain about the shotgun are generally not very good players...its a very easy weapon to counter, considering it doesn't shoot past 10 meters, and is about as effective as an ACR or duvolle in CQC. The burst HMG, however.... "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1916	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:43:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Is it possible to make this data public for us to ~~misinterperate~~ look over? I'm sure I and many other would like to examine some actual data rather than just hearsay and personal opinions.
Groz'zar Kazoku Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:47:00 - [22] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead. 900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them. It's a Specialized Alpha Damage weapon. If I'm running a shotgun and I get the drop on you, by all rights you should be killed. Its Optimal Range is 4.8m. Moving while cloaked doesn't render you invisible, it leaves a glowing blue outline. You're just as likely to notice or ignore it as you are someone that isn't cloaked that's got a Scan Profile under your team's Scan Precision. I disagree. If your dying your trigger pulls are out of timing or your using the craptastic breach shotgun. If its a tanked sentinel you can get off about four rounds walking around him as he turns before he can even get close to shooting you. Its about the only thing 1v1 that kills me a shot gunner sneaking up and blowing my brains onto the ground. The good ones. not the ones that cloak in front of you and try to run at you. The ones that cloak off to the side and get right behind you before wrecking you. Also if your good I have seen people two shot people at 10M+ I know I know I probably couldn't blah blah blah. but it happens too often to not be something that is pretty common. scouts are extremely powerful and the nova knives buff just made the min scout scoot up that ladder a bit. To be honest it trumps the shotgun as a main weapon. If your going cloaked might as well take the OhKO weapon with you. Nothing not even heavies can take a damaged stacked min scout with charged nova knives. seen skilled users of the nova knives walk in and tear apart two entire squads. I was lucky and spotted him with enough time to head shot him twice. but to be honest if they close your screwed. no escape from min scouts ever by anyone. highest speed and side step in the game.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3190	Posted - 2014.08.26 16:58:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol).
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1633	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:03:00 - [24] - Quote Sounds to me like people have forgotten how to play an fps without a cal scout wall hack. Give it time, the amarr scouts will be skilled in a week and you will have it back. If someone killed you with a shotgun, they would have killed you even faster with a fine rifle or hmg. That's just simple math and dps. Minjas are the ultimate glass cannon. You sneeze on them and they die. If they are speed and dmg fit they have around 200 hp. Plus all you have to do is panic backpedal in a circle while hip firing. Running some precision enhances will fix that as then they will be forced to remove a kincat and fit damps. Medium frames can fit ewar or utilize active scanners to great effect. It's a simple counter but most people don't want to sacrifice their hp mods or nano hives to do it. To the OP, you have a suit that is the antithesis of the scouts. You can use active scanners to a huge effect and cause them to run damps and change their entire play style. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Groz'zar Kazoku Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:06:00 - [25] - Quote Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits.
REDBACK96USMC Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 16	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:09:00 - [26] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). I still chuckle when I push the button, you hear the boom from the shotgun and then 4 seconds later they fly through the air and die from it. The only thing I would really take a look at is what the speed does to the hit detection on a scout suit. Rattati needs to make a scout with 9.5m/s or over and try this in a pub: Run in the middle of redberries. Wiggle left stick back and forth and jump around as fast as you can. Laugh Maniacally until they finally kill you.
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1633	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:11:00 - [27] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 960	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:12:00 - [28] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead. 900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them. It's a Specialized Alpha Damage weapon. If I'm running a shotgun and I get the drop on you, by all rights you should be killed. Its Optimal Range is 4.8m. Moving while cloaked doesn't render you invisible, it leaves a glowing blue outline. You're just as likely to notice or ignore it as you are someone that isn't cloaked that's got a Scan Profile under your team's Scan Precision. If they strafe in the direction of your turn, they can easily get 3 hits in before you can align with them. IgniteableAura wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... Then basic advanced and complex should be relevant tier competitors. Making them flat value changes instead of % would help with this. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Vell0cet Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2205	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:17:00 - [29] - Quote This is in pubs, so less relevant than PC, but I'm seeing more diversity in Charlie than I've ever seen before. Active scanners might deserve a buff to their scan angle a bit, and I think a short firing delay between decloaking and firing is reasonable. Looking forward to the sidearm changes so we see more than just SMGs in the kill feed. Once that's implemented, I think it'll be time to revisit the NPE and starter fits, so we can expose new players to a broad diversity of suits/weapons (and even giving them 1 free militia tank, and a free militia dropship). My proposal is to have CCP make a bunch of pre-made 0 sp militia fits with a handful of copies of each that come pre-loaded at launch. Unlike starter fits (which remain unlimited), these would need to be restocked and are no different than if the player had made them. I think this would really help showcase the diversity of fits/playstyles available in DUST to the Academy player, many/most of whom I suspect have no clue that all of those militia items are available to them. I think this would improve diversity even further. Best PvE idea ever!
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3141	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:20:00 - [30] - Quote What? Quote: Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. Edit : Why wouldn't this have been sorted 2 years ago? Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1634	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:23:00 - [31] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... No...assaults shouldn't be "heavy" scouts. Besides logistics can already do this. Scouts have to fit one precision to see scouts too except the amarr and gal as they get bonuses to them. If you want to counter a scout with an assault either run a focused scanner or sacrifice all your hp to do so. Scouts have to sacrifice multiple low slots to stay hidden just the same. Scouts that don't want to be seen can't be seen, but you have to force most of them to do that. And it's always a large sacrifice. The focused gal scans already require half the scouts to use the proto cloak and 3 damps. Without the cloak we are seen and can't fit any more lows. The gal is the only one who can forgo cloak for 3 damps. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 617	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:26:00 - [32] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. cal scout is still rather FOTM cause you cannot get them passively on tacnet with out gimping your ehp.. they have stupid high shield regen and can brick their ehp well OH and lets not forget the BUGGED HITBOX and super range on passive scan.. thats why cal scout is still the daddy vs cal assault or most other suits [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 617	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:31:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev rhe Rifle bump.. if its CR's dont touch them people use them to combat agaisnt the super bricked armor tankers of late. Assault SMG is already like carrying a second light weapon in terms of CPU and PG, leave it alone. also its quite nice to have on Minmatar assault. burst HMG needs a dmg nerf by 1/2. shotguns are still op but thats only because cloaking scouts make them OP [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 617	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:32:00 - [34] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). advanced and proto shotguns can easly 2shot kill from like 0-15 meters meters with a TTK of like 1 second [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2753	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:34:00 - [35] - Quote The current meta is: Domination: Rush with scouts, logi and dropships and spam the more equipment you can spam, then switch to heavy. Ambush: Spam heavies and cloaked scouts. Skirmish: Mix ambush and domination, basically heavy+scouts. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 221	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:35:00 - [36] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Is it possible to make this data public for us to ~~misinterperate~~ look over? I'm sure I and many other would like to examine some actual data rather than just hearsay and personal opinions. I would love some table/graph foo on the drop suit data alone. I think on my observations that scouts and assaults are currently quite popular with heavies next then logi's and commandos. Scouts seem to be very popular more so since HF Charlie. Logi's seem to have dropped off a bit. Anyone else seeing this ? Minmatar logi <3 Moonlighting as an Amarr logi occasionally Minmatar Nova Knife scout in training
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4390	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:37:00 - [37] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. cal scout is still rather FOTM cause you cannot get them passively on tacnet with out gimping your ehp.. they have stupid high shield regen and can brick their ehp well OH and lets not forget the BUGGED HITBOX and super range on passive scan.. thats why cal scout is still the daddy vs cal assault or most other suits I'm not sure if people are using Cal Scouts much in PC, maybe but it doesn't seem all that likely. The Gal Scout is the scariest thing out there for a Heavy city squad and the best counter to it is now the Amarr Scout. But I haven't had much time for PC since July and haven't heard the squad comps lately. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Groz'zar Kazoku Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:50:00 - [38] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. Ya because the good scouts run with no dampeners on. They run with two basic on and that whole argument goes out the window. you can't be stacking that much on a assault and hoping to stand against the other assaults. because the number of dampeners needed once the scout puts on even a few skyrockets the number needed to counter it. so to point it out it takes nothing for the scout to be good at its job. but takes too much away for the assault to even get close. giving up 4 slots to try and out Ewar a scout is an exercise in stupidity and futility. Because I used the scout the worst at Ewar. against the Assault. It just doesn't work the way you think. IF I had used the G-1scout it would be even worse for the Assault. Hell the C-1scout is even good at hiding. The A-1scout has no problem with scanning anything just about. Assault A-1 Scan profile of 50-60%= 20(max skill and two complex.) Scan precision of 50(45 for Logi)-50=25(22.5logi) (max skill and two proto complex.) Range 10M Scout M-1(only scout without Ewar bonus built in.) Profile 35-40%= 21(max skill and 2 basic dampeners.)(but lets be honest if its an advanced suit its running advanced dampeners putting it at 17.5 and unscanable and just for reference. Proto= 14) Precision 40-50%= 20 matching the assault and logi.(max skill and two complex.) Range 20M Scout C-1 and G-1 Profile 35-55%= 15.75 ADV: 12.25 Proto:8.75 G-1only Precision 40-60%=16 ADV:20 Basic:24 C-1 only range:20+50%= 30M Scout A-1 Precision 40-75%=10 ADV:14 Basic:18
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 960	Posted - 2014.08.26 17:51:00 - [39] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... No...assaults shouldn't be "heavy" scouts. Besides logistics can already do this. Scouts have to fit one precision to see scouts too except the amarr and gal as they get bonuses to them. If you want to counter a scout with an assault either run a focused scanner or sacrifice all your hp to do so. Scouts have to sacrifice multiple low slots to stay hidden just the same. Scouts that don't want to be seen can't be seen, but you have to force most of them to do that. And it's always a large sacrifice. The focused gal scans already require half the scouts to use the proto cloak and 3 damps. Without the cloak we are seen and can't fit any more lows. The gal is the only one who can forgo cloak for 3 damps. Explain how the theory I've laid out is unfair toward scouts. You can still hide, it just takes more effort, unless you have a racial bonus etc. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Groz'zar Kazoku Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:21:00 - [40] - Quote Damnit lol hit the wrong button. XD Ignore this post.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4480	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:46:00 - [41] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). advanced and proto shotguns can easly 2shot kill from like 0-15 meters meters with a TTK of like 1 second 2-shot at 15m, heh? Sounds like an easy experiment. Please link video. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 921	Posted - 2014.08.26 18:54:00 - [42] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). advanced and proto shotguns can easly 2shot kill from like 0-15 meters meters with a TTK of like 1 second 2-shot at 15m, heh? Sounds like an easy experiment. Please link video. At 15m a Shotgun only does 10% damage. . . if you got killed at 15 meters than either someone else was damaging you or you survived the previous damage with a sliver of health left. I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1377	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:00:00 - [43] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. cal scout is still rather FOTM cause you cannot get them passively on tacnet with out gimping your ehp.. they have stupid high shield regen and can brick their ehp well OH and lets not forget the BUGGED HITBOX and super range on passive scan.. thats why cal scout is still the daddy vs cal assault or most other suits I'm not sure if people are using Cal Scouts much in PC, maybe but it doesn't seem all that likely. The Gal Scout is the scariest thing out there for a Heavy city squad and the best counter to it is now the Amarr Scout. But I haven't had much time for PC since July and haven't heard the squad comps lately. In short, the Cal scout of Bravo has been replaced by the Amarr scout of Charlie. However, the dampened Gal and Min scouts evade the Charlie Amarr scanning scout, if they choose to run enough dampeners. The balance of power has tilted towards the dampened rather than the scanner -- with good communication and watching approach avenues as the most effective counter.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 351	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:02:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out I recently specced into assualt rifles, to use the tactical's (lots of fun) This is probably why you're seeing some bumps T__T lol.
Haerr Legio DXIV 1261	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:11:00 - [45] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Changing uplinks to a lower number of variants and applying skills as bonuses instead of 10 different variants to eliminate spam would change the meta in HUGE ways. Yes please! +1 This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
ConantheCimmerian Murphys-Law 56	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:22:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev I was with you all they way until you said HMGs are on par with rifles, and they are, however the only thing "heavy" about them is weapon handling. They are LIGHT mg's. Heavy machine guns (Browning M-2, PKM 12.7, etc) all have range and are ment for support of a full company. LIGHT machine guns (m240b, browning 1919, MG42) are for squad support on smaller scales. I,E Us Marine, pacific theatre, see John Basilone. Point being. If the mislabeled hmg is meant for close quarters only (ew) they need a handling increase. Quicker reload and such. If not, how about we @ least give it some semi realistic range? Id love to also get into scramblet pistols but they are still tolerable. I just wish my magsec would get a lil rof or recoil bonus. Thanks for reading Pilot-The Black Corsair (funny comment)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4480	Posted - 2014.08.26 19:29:00 - [47] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). advanced and proto shotguns can easly 2shot kill from like 0-15 meters meters with a TTK of like 1 second 2-shot at 15m, heh? Sounds like an easy experiment. Please link video. At 15m a Shotgun only does 10% damage. . . if you got killed at 15 meters than either someone else was damaging you or you survived the previous damage with a sliver of health left. Would prefer for members of the anti-shotgun crowd to see for themselves how the weapon performs outside of 5, 10, and 15 meters. They continue to ascribe magical properties to the SG; they either don't understand us or they don't believe us when we say the weapon's range is severely limited. Firsthand observation is the only cure. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 516	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:37:00 - [48] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead. 900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them. It's a Specialized Alpha Damage weapon. If I'm running a shotgun and I get the drop on you, by all rights you should be killed. Its Optimal Range is 4.8m. Moving while cloaked doesn't render you invisible, it leaves a glowing blue outline. You're just as likely to notice or ignore it as you are someone that isn't cloaked that's got a Scan Profile under your team's Scan Precision. Doesn't glow blue with some of the backlighting in areas. In broad daylight (Ironically) I've watched the reflective outline run about and you can't see any blue glow. That I hope gets fixed but I don't know how without making the cloak obvious.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 516	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:44:00 - [49] - Quote Not that I'm complaining but if tighter dispersion doesn't help you kill close up targets then you probably are killing players at around 15m... I mean because 4.2 M and their entire body is going to fill your reticle. Just sayin' I've only got shotgun 2 and the only noticeable difference between 2 and 0 is that I can actually do heavy damage to targets further away, like 7-9 meters. I mean that's even what the tooltip says on the breach shotgun... that a tighter dispersion allows for it to do more damage over a greater distance.
Son Down SamsClub 181	Posted - 2014.08.26 20:57:00 - [50] - Quote So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev[/quote] Yeah, it's as "healthy as it has been for a long time". Obviously. http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1640	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:15:00 - [51] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... No...assaults shouldn't be "heavy" scouts. Besides logistics can already do this. Scouts have to fit one precision to see scouts too except the amarr and gal as they get bonuses to them. If you want to counter a scout with an assault either run a focused scanner or sacrifice all your hp to do so. Scouts have to sacrifice multiple low slots to stay hidden just the same. Scouts that don't want to be seen can't be seen, but you have to force most of them to do that. And it's always a large sacrifice. The focused gal scans already require half the scouts to use the proto cloak and 3 damps. Without the cloak we are seen and can't fit any more lows. The gal is the only one who can forgo cloak for 3 damps. Explain how the theory I've laid out is unfair toward scouts. You can still hide, it just takes more effort, unless you have a racial bonus etc. Because that would mean assaults would have the better precision skills than a scout, which is role overlap and that is bad. An assault shouldn't be able to detect the same things a scout can, if you want to have better scans, start spending SP into Amarr scout. You can pick up scouts just fine without removing any hp mods by running an active scanner. It would take the exact same amount of effort on a scouts part to hide. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 352	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:21:00 - [52] - Quote ConantheCimmerian wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev I was with you all they way until you said HMGs are on par with rifles, and they are, however the only thing "heavy" about them is weapon handling. They are LIGHT mg's. Heavy machine guns (Browning M-2, PKM 12.7, etc) all have range and are ment for support of a full company. LIGHT machine guns (m240b, browning 1919, MG42) are for squad support on smaller scales. I,E Us Marine, pacific theatre, see John Basilone. Point being. If the mislabeled hmg is meant for close quarters only (ew) they need a handling increase. Quicker reload and such. If not, how about we @ least give it some semi realistic range? Id love to also get into scramblet pistols but they are still tolerable. I just wish my magsec would get a lil rof or recoil bonus. Thanks for reading Realism is no excuse to buff the HMG, lol... It's range is more than okay without even considdering the map design, which makes them the best weapon for defending a point (aka the main part of the game.)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3910	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:23:00 - [53] - Quote The shotgun is not the real problem, they are nothing like they were in 1.8. They were 100% cheap godmode when cloaks first came out, anyone who argues that is completely full of ****. Now, they are still occasionally rage-inducing but are no longer a plague. (and yes, burst HMG is BS) It remains the scout suit that's the issue. As already mentioned, if a gallente scout gets the drop on you with an ACR, you're dead almost as quick, and from longer range. They still have entirely too much fitting power, with 2 equipment slots, and even with the recent buff, all scouts pretty much still assault better than assaults because they are faster, with lolwallhacks, and see you first every time, if you can even see them at all. I still stubbornly cling to my Amarr logi suit and do OK, but I have less freedom and it's a lot less fun than it used to be. The lifespan of a logi that's not surrounded by 2-3+ squadmates at all times is pretty short these days. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3194	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:28:00 - [54] - Quote REDBACK96USMC wrote: Joel II X wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). I still chuckle when I push the button, you hear the boom from the shotgun and then 4 seconds later they fly through the air and die from it. The only thing I would really take a look at is what the speed does to the hit detection on a scout suit. Rattati needs to make a scout with 9.5m/s or over and try this in a pub: Run in the middle of redberries. Wiggle left stick back and forth and jump around as fast as you can. Laugh Maniacally until they finally kill you. U I rarely use my SG fit anymore because of what you said Also, no scout has 9.5 m/s strafe. Minmatar has the best strafe, and yet people complain more about the Caldari's hit detection instead of theirs. Why do you think that is?
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 241	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:52:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked I did go second in Fracture Road 14/7 and a little less than 2k WP, in my defense. Atiim can vouch for me I believe you man, it's all good. Just throwing a few jabs
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 3917	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:57:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13057	Posted - 2014.08.26 21:57:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked I did go second in Fracture Road 14/7 and a little less than 2k WP, in my defense. Atiim can vouch for me I don't even think Atiim exists. He is like Catmerc and Arkena..... same people..... Catmerc being the alter ego who does not truly exist..... I suspect that Atiim is just a subconscious figment of my imagination that balances my raging Tank based philosophies. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4489	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:02:00 - [58] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Robocop Junior Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 785	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:07:00 - [59] - Quote Hahahaha my new favorite person! Even devs know shotguns are OP. Scouts are the second easiest thing to do behind ADS. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
Zindorak 1.U.P 683	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:20:00 - [60] - Quote Ima rank in tiers. CCP can we have an official tier list on the forums? im a make one now like the pokeman tier list. Feel free to add some info as i don't know how good some suits are. The ones with Question marks are the ones i need you guys to confirm for me. S class Amarr Sentinel, Gallente Scout A Class Gallente Sentinel, Amarr Assault, Minmatar Assault, Amarr Scout?, Caldari Scout?, Minmatar Logi? Caldari Commando B class Caldari Sentinel, Caldari Logi, Gallente Logi, Minmatar Scout, Amarr Logi?, Minmatar Commando? C class Amarr Commando, Gallente Commando? Caldari Assault? Gallente Assault? D Class All Basic Frames Ima make a weapon tier list post later and by that i mean now Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad

Zindorak 1.U.P 683	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:29:00 - [61] - Quote Light Weapon Tier list. Post if you agree or disagree S Class Rail Rifle A Class Combat Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Charge Sniper Rifle B Class Assault Rail Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Swarm Launcher, Tactical Sniper Rifle C class Laser Rifle, all variants of the Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Breach Assault Rifle, Breach Shotgun, Assault Scrambler Rifle D class Assault Rifle, Burst Assault Rifle, Tactical Assault Rifle. Assault Swarm Launcher I didn't know how to rate the Swarms or Plasma Cannon. But i think they are pretty good at what they do which is AV or killing for the Plasma Cannon if you are good at killing with it. I will do Sidearms next. I didn't Count Specialists because you only get lowered fitting costs and it doesn't affect the performance of the weapon. Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 2023	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:33:00 - [62] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? I pray to God that he is using statistics. Our status as a toxic community is often showcased by irrational call-to-nerf tendencies. I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers. Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
Michael Arck 5273	Posted - 2014.08.26 22:33:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Lol alright then, lets do this. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
13ear 225	Posted - 2014.08.26 23:02:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125 Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122 Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles, bringing back enforcer tanks would be a good start. 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rate. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout has the same regen as the CalAssault. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. Only changes that I'd really like to see in HF Delta would be 1, 2 & 3. One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings - Diogenes Winner of EU Squad Cup

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5803	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:49:00 - [65] - Quote 13ear wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125 Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122 Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3. Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5803	Posted - 2014.08.27 05:56:00 - [66] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1827	Posted - 2014.08.27 06:05:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) Is there any way you can share in a little detail your thoughts on the Burst HMG and what tweaks if any you feel are needed? Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Leovarian L Lavitz G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1144	Posted - 2014.08.27 06:24:00 - [68] - Quote Heavies are the counter to Mediums are the Counter To Scouts Are the Counter to Heavies So I would first fix the ewar to reflect this. Heavies have horrible EWar, no change, they get Damage and HP Mediums have PRECISION to pick up sneaky scouts, they get Moderate amounts of damage, hp and speed Scouts have RANGE to pick up heavies, however they may sacrifice slots to fight ewar with Mediums. Scouts can't pick up each other naturally without sacrificing slots. This changes the current profile of Scouts get damp, range, and precision. Precision enhancers and range extenders increase scan profile by the same amount that they increase their respective modifiers. This balances the suits, if the frame wants to see everyone everywhere, then everyone everywhere can see them. However, they can fit profile dampners to counter the effects - no brick tanking radar shotgun scouts. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
Spankdamonke Dapper Gentlemen Corporation 6	Posted - 2014.08.27 09:14:00 - [69] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) Is there any way you can share in a little detail your thoughts on the Burst HMG and what tweaks if any you feel are needed? I'm also interested to hear your opinions regarding the Burst. The FEEL of it is in such a good place now (ROF and burst delay), and the balancing factors work well, but it admittedly just does too much too well in it's current state. What do yourself and the CPM propose Mr. Rattati?
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 962	Posted - 2014.08.27 09:45:00 - [70] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: IgniteableAura wrote: Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... No...assaults shouldn't be "heavy" scouts. Besides logistics can already do this. Scouts have to fit one precision to see scouts too except the amarr and gal as they get bonuses to them. If you want to counter a scout with an assault either run a focused scanner or sacrifice all your hp to do so. Scouts have to sacrifice multiple low slots to stay hidden just the same. Scouts that don't want to be seen can't be seen, but you have to force most of them to do that. And it's always a large sacrifice. The focused gal scans already require half the scouts to use the proto cloak and 3 damps. Without the cloak we are seen and can't fit any more lows. The gal is the only one who can forgo cloak for 3 damps. Explain how the theory I've laid out is unfair toward scouts. You can still hide, it just takes more effort, unless you have a racial bonus etc. Because that would mean assaults would have the better precision skills than a scout, which is role overlap and that is bad. An assault shouldn't be able to detect the same things a scout can, if you want to have better scans, start spending SP into Amarr scout. You can pick up scouts just fine without removing any hp mods by running an active scanner. It would take the exact same amount of effort on a scouts part to hide. That is incredibly vague in terms of the example. The +1 for the suit base is a HEAVILY reduced and simplified version of the current "DB" scale... Also, scouts already role overlap Assaults by being able to stack HP and still go undetected, while Assaults have to sacrifice a bunch of Health just to detect basic Scouts. Either A: The variance has to close, so that stealth is something a scout must actually attempt to attain, Hence my example, or ----B: Scouts must loose so much health that even if an Assault stacks downwards for baseline scout detection, and said scout stacks all HP, that the Maximum health is lower than that available to the Assault at said detection level. I thought that scouts would dislike loosing even more health than just making sensors actually worth something. Also Scanners are temporary items with a cooldown, the tradeoff for better detection is a smaller range, and a region of time in which the detection does not work. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.

George Moros RestlessSpirits 406	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:17:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP I wouldn't agree that SG is OP, however, the BHMG does feel OP at the moment. IMHO, the problem with BHMG is that it currently works more similarly to the SG then to HMG. You unload a ton of damage in under half a second, which means that people simply don't have time to react and seek cover. One well-aimed burst will kill any light suit, and a significant portion of mediums (at least in pubs). On top of that, it does so at a significantly better range than SG. My proposal would be to lower the number of rounds fired in a burst, since less rounds per burst would increase the chance for someone to survive one burst. Nothing dramatic for start - maybe from 45 to 40, then see how it works. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 54	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:25:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 13ear wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati] 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future. As a pilot, itGÇÖs the first light of hope I have seen in 9 month. If you really want to do something about vehicles one day (and not only about turrets), donGÇÖt hesitate. There are a lot of things that can be done with only server-side changes. Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
H0riz0n Unlimit Inner.Hell 162	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:40:00 - [73] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 13ear wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125 Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122 Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3. Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future. 1 yeats ago tanks are the way Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2757	Posted - 2014.08.27 10:59:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) The problem is not the shotgun imo, the problem is who use the shotgun. Scouts with shotty are OP because they can be invisible/see and they can backstab people, that's the only reason why shotgun is so effective, put the shotgun in the hand of every other suit and it will be perfectly balanced. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
George Moros RestlessSpirits 406	Posted - 2014.08.27 11:25:00 - [75] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) The problem is not the shotgun imo, the problem is who use the shotgun. Scouts with shotty are OP because they can be invisible/see and they can backstab people, that's the only reason why shotgun is so effective, put the shotgun in the hand of every other suit and it will be perfectly balanced. Put the shotgun in any other suit, and it would be utterly UP. The combination of cloak + speed is what makes SG effective. The only other possible niche for effective shotgun use would be as a secondary weapon for (Gal) commandos. I know that getting backstabbed is irritating, but it's the only way a scout can fight effectively. Of course, it can be debated whether the current balance allows scouts to be too effective at killing, but the core principle is perfectly OK, and shouldn't be changed. Pulvereus ergo queritor.
Ryme Intrinseca 1637	Posted - 2014.08.27 12:17:00 - [76] - Quote CamClarke wrote: An Assault is still non-viable, as they can't pick up anything smaller than a dump truck on passive scans, and even then it's only when they're almost right on top of you. If you need to see everyone on passive scans to be competitive, and want to run solo, then you need to be a scout. That's just a fact of life. They are actually CALLED SCOUTS FFS! What they are for is scouting. The people that do well with assaults are the same as the people who do well with HMGs. They either run in squads with scouts and use their scans or they constantly look around, and trust their eyes to pick up cloaks.
CamClarke Inner.Hell 70	Posted - 2014.08.27 12:48:00 - [77] - Quote Well, this thread certainly picked up. Even got the attention of Ratatti, which is nice. @CCP Ratatti: I'm glad you're keeping a close eye on things. Having kept up with the information, I know that the rifles are actually doing pretty well without one being blatantly better than the others. Yes, the BHMG is quite obviously overperforming, and that one could stand some tweaking. I don't even hear many dedicated Sentinels disputing or defending it. It was pretty good before the buff from what I understand, but outclassed a bit by full-auto HMGs. The BHMG should most likely be just tweaked back to just slightly above what it was before Charlie, but I'm by no means an expert on them. I don't feel that Shotguns themselves are what are causing them to be so high in the metrics, as their extreme damage is balanced out by extremely short range. Before cloaks came along, it was amazingly rare to see anyone use a Shotgun at all, with the exception of Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane way back in the day when those two terrorized us all. As I recall, Shotguns are one of the few weapons that have gone through virtually no changes throughout the lifetime of Dust. As others have stated, it is most likely the fact that Scouts now have the tools to get in extremely short range fairly safely, often undetected until it is too late, because there are simply no good means of detecting them other than another Scout or a gk.0 Logi, neither of which is guaranteed to spot them. As George Moros above said, the core principle of the Shotguns' and Scouts' backstabbing uses is correct and should be unchanged. The main problem is that it is too easy to set up these backstab scenarios. It also works wonders playing peek-a-boo even with your presence known versus non-Sentinels, as all it takes is rounding the nearest corner or box to force CQC. As an aside to the above, you could say "throw a grenade" but the various nerfs to grenades have caused people to almost exclusively use Flux grenades, as they are more utilitarian and still most likely will do almost as much or more effective damage depending on the target. I think the last time I saw a Locus grenade kill was a few days ago, when I threw it at a wounded, trapped, being rifled down Sentinel that would have died anyway. And one that got me, when I was at 100 armor and would have died anyway. Fluxes are better than nothing though, I suppose. I wonder, Ratatti, does your data happen to have a breakdown of what weapons are killing various suit types? If so, I'm curious to know if Shotguns are performing equally against them all or if there is some sort of disparity. I'm glad to see you're considering buffs for shield-based tanking. If possible, I would very much like to see a (very very, almost nonexistent) small damage threshold on shield regen, like vehicles have, simply because it's far too easy to plink someone with a weapon far outside of effective range to stop it, a weakness armor-repping tanks do not have. It would go a long way to improve the quality of life of shield users. @ Ryme Intrinseca: Its problems run deeper than just a lack of useful eWar, even in a squad setup. As far as skilling into a Scout, well, I'm working on it. @Everyone else: Thank you for all your contributions to this thread. I can't reply to everyone individually of course, but I did read it all. Certainly saw good things.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4409	Posted - 2014.08.27 13:01:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 13ear wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125 Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122 Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3. Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future. I wish someone more eloquent than I would pitch an idea to CCP about getting a sell to NPC option to compensate for the lack of player market. I think this along with a complete FW store market and maybe a team deploy UI could lead to people buying FW boosters and PAYING for any dev time that it takes up. My thoughts there: 1) Team Deploy into FW would give many people the repetitions needed to get proficient in playing as a team. 2) Players wanting access to AUR like gear (LP gear and AUR gear allowing access to proto gear with lower SP). Once they get hooked on the team play and the proto gear they'll want boosters. 3) People able to sell items they no longer use and salvage (perhaps a buff to salvage to boost this as well) leads to more vibrant fights. 4) More ISK in players pockets leads to more FW time and more boosters being sold. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Ryme Intrinseca 1637	Posted - 2014.08.27 13:09:00 - [79] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Light Weapon Tier list. Post if you agree or disagree S Class Rail Rifle A Class Combat Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Charge Sniper Rifle B Class Assault Rail Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Swarm Launcher, Tactical Sniper Rifle C class Laser Rifle, all variants of the Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Breach Assault Rifle, Breach Shotgun, Assault Scrambler Rifle D class Assault Rifle, Burst Assault Rifle, Tactical Assault Rifle. Assault Swarm Launcher I didn't know how to rate the Swarms or Plasma Cannon. But i think they are pretty good at what they do which is AV or killing for the Plasma Cannon if you are good at killing with it. I will do Sidearms next. I didn't Count Specialists because you only get lowered fitting costs and it doesn't affect the performance of the weapon. Disagree because I agree with Rattati, viz: ScR>CR=ACR=RR=ARR>AScR, AR, BrAR, BuAR, TAR
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4797	Posted - 2014.08.27 13:57:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) Breach isn't UP at all, it's simply a "no mistakes allowed" type of weapon. That makes it less popular. Most players make mistakes. Were you to buff the breach in terms of damage it would do exactly what it does now, except heavies would be incredibly pissed off at you. Were you to buff it in terms of RoF, it would be redundant. I would say leave the breach alone. If this game has a single skill intensive weapon that actually gives a payoff for using it well, the breach shotgun is it.

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3277	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:36:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. I'm curious to know, have you considered giving the Minmatar better shield regen and/or lower shield regen delay? People talk about the Min being hit and run, and while their natural high speed supports that, they aren't really so great with the low downtime part of being hit and run. SP Sinks? Fixed.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5830	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:37:00 - [82] - Quote The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

nicholas73 Glitched Connection 174	Posted - 2014.08.27 15:39:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. Would it be possible to reveal the data to us as well? I wanna drool at the stats. Proud member of Glitched Connection
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 260	Posted - 2014.08.27 17:34:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You really think Shotguns are op? Shot guns have been the most balanced weapon in the game until you guys messed with the proficiency skill on it, now iyt is just on par with most other weapons. Shot guns never needed a damage boost from proficiency, they always did enough damage from the start. The original proficiency skill that increased the RoF of the shotguns was so much better, it allowed me as a career scout since week one of closed beta, to be able get off the extra shot or 2 to kill a heavy before they had the chance to turn around and kill me. If anything I think the proficiency skill for the shotgun should be switched back to increase the RoF and not the damage. If CCP had listened to the actual scouts that use shotguns they will all tell you that shotguns never needed a proficiency damage buff, they were strong enough as they were.
CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 392	Posted - 2014.08.27 17:39:00 - [85] - Quote It's okay, Destiny comes out in like two weeks.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 353	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:08:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... Perhaps ammo cap should increase between basic - proto.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4522	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:16:00 - [87] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... . Which heavy can be 2HK'd by a Basic Shotgun? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 353	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:26:00 - [88] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... . Which heavy can be 2HK'd by a Basic Shotgun? Headshots, which aren't exactly hard at shotgun range, even though most couldn't hit a barn door if it was right infront of them... You can also 1 shot a lot of squishier suits with it.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1042	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:50:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev so people don't just press triangle and start kneeling before your omnipotent presence? *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1514	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:51:00 - [90] - Quote Give medium suits jet packs and jet pack skills and a second equipment slot thats only able to be used for jet pack booster upgrades from your jetpack skill tree. Double tap x and hold and your pack will fly depending on its type of pack you have equipped. Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !

bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1042	Posted - 2014.08.27 18:53:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP ................... Okay, I was GOING to skill into a Gal Scout soon... I have 1 mil saved and was apprehensive about it... AND THIS POST IS WHY. Now I'm definitely waiting a little longer before Hotfix Delta. *Eternal Beings* - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
Cass Caul 942	Posted - 2014.08.27 19:52:00 - [92] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... The shotgun has the worst progression in the game. The difference between the STD and ADV is actually significant, but the changes in damage from ADV to PRO is negligable. Even Proficiency, it doesn't change the amount of shots to kill someone. Since this HP buff to Assaults though, I just laugh it off. I can survive the first shot to the back, turn around, and kill them. They'll get a second shot off, but I still have the HP to survive that one too. They die before they get a third shot off every time. The only people a shotgun is going to kill in 1 shot are MLT fits. On the other hand, because the shotgun doesn't come pre-fitted on any starter fits, some people will reluctantly use an unfavored rifle because Medic suits have ARs and Frontline has the racial rifle, and can learn to use the rifles early on. You need to make a conscious, active choice to create a dropsuit fit with a shotgun. I see 4-8 people a match between both teams where there are people that have gone 0/3 to 0/8 I can believe that the Shotgun has a much higher efficiency than the other weapons because you don't have those new kids equipping shotguns whenever they run into a squad of players with over 50 million SP each. I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4542	Posted - 2014.08.27 20:01:00 - [93] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... . Which heavy can be 2HK'd by a Basic Shotgun? Headshots, which aren't exactly hard at shotgun range, even though most couldn't hit a barn door if it was right infront of them... You can also 1 shot a lot of squishier suits with it. Balancing the shotgun in terms of headshots is an unreasonable standard. First, the Shotgun's hit detection is too unreliable for it to be recast as a "skillshot" weapon. Shots on target routinely miss. This is one of primary reasons why the Breach Shotgun is a poor choice. Second, the Shotgun is easier to evade than any other light weapon (excluding plasma cannon). When engaging a moving target, firing center mass has been and will remain the shotgunner's best bet at not wasting his shot. Third, we've yet to balance any other CQC weapon in terms of headshot damage. Why would we start with the least likely candidate? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 437	Posted - 2014.08.27 20:32:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP TBH the problem is cloaking. It's fun for scouts. For everyone else theres no game plan for it. I can be doing everything right and get shot in the back, try to fight back, get shot again and die. The only thing for it is to stick in tight groups. Grouping is good in general but to have no freedom to move around on your own because you KNOW you'll be shot in the back severely limits players' behaviors. Were all just herding around in little groups for safety. Cloak has made Dust more predictable and frustrating for most of the players. Remove cloaking and buff scouts in other ways. More speed and base HP, and interesting racial bonuses to replace the cloak bonus. Speed, scanning, scout bonuses, and the extra equipment slot are more than enough to make scouts stand apart from assaults. Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4798	Posted - 2014.08.27 20:51:00 - [95] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever. Nerf it to its previous stats or leave it the same, makes no difference to me. Assault HMG is the only one that's truly horrible. Umm people who complain about the shotgun are generally not very good players...its a very easy weapon to counter, considering it doesn't shoot past 10 meters, and is about as effective as an ACR or duvolle in CQC. The burst HMG, however.... And scouts who complain about Heavies have absolutely no idea what playing a heavy is like in a real match with no radar against competent scouts. Both weapons are instant death. One of them comes with a ******* wallhack. Don't lecture me on stuff you don't understand, thanks.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3529	Posted - 2014.08.27 21:15:00 - [96] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4549	Posted - 2014.08.27 21:26:00 - [97] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP TBH the problem is cloaking. It's fun for scouts. For everyone else theres no game plan for it. I can be doing everything right and get shot in the back, try to fight back, get shot again and die. The only thing for it is to stick in tight groups. Grouping is good in general but to have no freedom to move around on your own because you KNOW you'll be shot in the back severely limits players' behaviors. Were all just herding around in little groups for safety. Cloak has made Dust more predictable and frustrating for most of the players. Remove cloaking and buff scouts in other ways. More speed and base HP, and interesting racial bonuses to replace the cloak bonus. Speed, scanning, scout bonuses, and the extra equipment slot are more than enough to make scouts stand apart from assaults. Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? ^ This is a fair opinion. We're getting closer and closer to frame balance, but I agree that there's still room for further improvements on Scouts. I've serious reservations about pulling cloak, but if it the right answer then so be it. That said, it is likely a better idea to polish what content we have rather than to scrap it. A number of Scouts have suggested that we add a delay between decloak and "doing things" ... I think such a tweak would help with the Cloak, the Scout and the Shotgun. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4550	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:07:00 - [98] - Quote Also, we can't blame the current "herding" behavior on cloak or scouts. There was far less herding and far more cloaking in 1.8 and 1.8A than now. The blobs began in earnest 1.8B. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 438	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:15:00 - [99] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Actually now that you mention it that's a better idea than just removing cloak. Give it a 6/5/4 second delay and a slightly more noticeable decloaking sound. Balance that with lower fitting costs and more dampening (5/10/15) This would make cloaking a tool for traversing the map in secret, gathering intel, and getting into position for a sneak attack, but would make more difficult for scouts the sudden death strikes against players on the fringe of groups or on their own. They could still sneak up behind you but there's more of a chance your squad mate could alert you or that you would turn and have a chance to respond before 3/4 of your HP is gone.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 438	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:18:00 - [100] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Also, we can't safely blame the current "herding" behavior on cloak or scouts. There was far less herding and far more cloaking in 1.8 and 1.8A than now. The blobs began in earnest 1.8B. Yeah because players have wisened up by now. 1.8 and 1.8A was a holocaust of assassination.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4552	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:25:00 - [101] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Also, we can't safely blame the current "herding" behavior on cloak or scouts. There was far less herding and far more cloaking in 1.8 and 1.8A than now. The blobs began in earnest 1.8B. Yeah because players have wisened up by now. 1.8 and 1.8A was a holocaust of assassination. Players "wisen up" within a day or two of a patch. Often faster. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4552	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:38:00 - [102] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Actually now that you mention it that's a better idea than just removing cloak. Give it a 6/5/4 second delay and a slightly more noticeable decloaking sound. Balance that with lower fitting costs and more dampening (5/10/15) This would make cloaking a tool for traversing the map in secret, gathering intel, and getting into position for a sneak attack, but would make more difficult for scouts the sudden death strikes against players on the fringe of groups or on their own. They could still sneak up behind you but there's more of a chance your squad mate could alert you or that you would turn and have a chance to respond before 3/4 of your HP is gone. I don't know about these numbers, but you have the right concept. Cloak should be useful in recon, evasion, infiltration and traversing open terrain. Cloak should not be useful in frontal assault. As for "chance for respond" ... I disagree. The Scout doesn't expect a "chance to respond" when facing an HMG or Fine Rifle. Why do you expect a "chance to respond" when one sneaks up directly behind you with Knives or a Shotgun? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3531	Posted - 2014.08.27 22:44:00 - [103] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Actually now that you mention it that's a better idea than just removing cloak. Give it a 6/5/4 second delay and a slightly more noticeable decloaking sound. Balance that with lower fitting costs and more dampening (5/10/15) This would make cloaking a tool for traversing the map in secret, gathering intel, and getting into position for a sneak attack, but would make more difficult for scouts the sudden death strikes against players on the fringe of groups or on their own. They could still sneak up behind you but there's more of a chance your squad mate could alert you or that you would turn and have a chance to respond before 3/4 of your HP is gone. This is kind of an odd thought, but it came to mind regardless when you mentioned deactivation delay. With times like that you could probably fit in the system hacking animation--which gave me the idea that codebreaker modules would function as system processing modules that would let you decloak faster (hacking your dropsuit, or solving system permutations from keeping your suit from frying ) Minmatar hack speed role bonuses would apply here meaning they are able to decloak the fastest of the scouts if they have the proper codebreaker modules equipped. Yes, this is kind of zany. The thing that would have to be addressed is what is they delay for cloak naturally running out (not manually deactivating. I would certainly suggest a very shorter time as your not stun locked into the animation. Although savvy player could make use of this shorter decloak time for a quicker weapon draw. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 261	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:24:00 - [104] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Actually now that you mention it that's a better idea than just removing cloak. Give it a 6/5/4 second delay and a slightly more noticeable decloaking sound. Balance that with lower fitting costs and more dampening (5/10/15) This would make cloaking a tool for traversing the map in secret, gathering intel, and getting into position for a sneak attack, but would make more difficult for scouts the sudden death strikes against players on the fringe of groups or on their own. They could still sneak up behind you but there's more of a chance your squad mate could alert you or that you would turn and have a chance to respond before 3/4 of your HP is gone. This is kind of an odd thought, but it came to mind regardless when you mentioned deactivation delay. With times like that you could probably fit in the system hacking animation--which gave me the idea that codebreaker modules would function as system processing modules that would let you decloak faster (hacking your dropsuit, or solving system permutations from keeping your suit from frying ) Minmatar hack speed role bonuses would apply here meaning they are able to decloak the fastest of the scouts if they have the proper codebreaker modules equipped. Yes, this is kind of zany. The thing that would have to be addressed is what is they delay for cloak naturally running out (not manually deactivating. I would certainly suggest a very shorter time as your not stun locked into the animation. Although savvy player could make use of this shorter decloak time for a quicker weapon draw. Would you stupid scrubs stop looking for ways to make a perfectly fine scout suit different. There is no reason in hell to change anything about the min scout. It is the most versitile scout in the game and you dumb ass window lickers are looking to **** it up like you retards did everything else in the game.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3532	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:50:00 - [105] - Quote @843-Vika The delay I am talking about applies to all scouts. What I am spit balling is the idea that Min scouts would be able manually decloak the fastest. I apologize if that didn't make sense in my post. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 264	Posted - 2014.08.27 23:59:00 - [106] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: @843-Vika The delay I am talking about applies to all scouts. What I am spit balling is the idea that Min scouts would be able manually decloak the fastest. I apologize if that didn't make sense in my post. No it made sence but i speced into min scout from the time they came out for the hacking bonus to go with my hacking skill, since i got at level 5 i hack fast enough to get in and out of objectives before the enemy has time to react.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 3532	Posted - 2014.08.28 00:01:00 - [107] - Quote The hacking bonus stays. It's that the codebreaker modules and racial bonus also apply to decloaking faster. Maybe the thing about decloaking could be it takes 1-2 seconds to manually decloak for all cloak modules, but you have to hold down the R1 trigger for 5-8 seconds depending on the equipment level to avoid a prolonged suit ping that would expose your position for a brief period of time (say 10 seconds for example). You would appear as an active beacon similar to what the active scanner shows. Codebreaker modules would reduce this ping aversion trigger hold time. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Thurak1 Psygod9 951	Posted - 2014.08.28 00:08:00 - [108] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Wow a dev has actually said something i agree with. The funny thing is that i am a burst hmg user. Having a blast right now with 3 damage mods prof 5 and a burst hmg mowing over even most other sentinels in my way. I somewhat feel bad.. Right up till some scout decloaks behind me and firest off 3 rounds into my head before i can even turn around. Right up till then though i feel a little bad.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2014.08.28 02:27:00 - [109] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... Perhaps ammo cap should increase between basic - proto. Ammunition is low enough as is. Perhaps a pellet increase upon tier, after reducing the basic varient's first and go up from there? If not, then drastic increases in damage could be implemented, after the basic varient has it's reduced to a margin, making advanced and prototype varients significantly more powerful and worthwhile than the former,and again, go up from there. Reduced and then increased upon tier pellets could be interesting, but my concern with that it could possibly screw around with hit detection and performance, even though it doesn't have hit detection issues currently (for me anyway), it's just that the reticule completely lies to you, implying that it's suppose to spread, but in actuality it's dead frickin' center, like the Hmg use to be, and is likely the same issue with the accuracy simply being too accurate. The accuracy could be reduced by about 0.10, like the Hmg was to actually give it spread, which increased its performance very significantly (I believe that was the amount anyway, 0.10, don't take my word for it). I've just trained myself to the point of using the shotgun almost effortlessly and have no issues with it other than my own human error, but playing the game for over a year now will do that to you... You won't two shot a severely tanked heavy btw (unless their caldari, poor bastards...), which is likely at least or over 1400ehp with 2 shots from a basic shotgun, but it probably would need 3-5 shots in total to do so. That's the only time when an advanced or prototype shotgun comes in handy, otherwise, having a standard shotgun allows you to improve upon your fitting with the more room, and depending on their fit, makes them immensely more dangerous. The breach is amazing, but having only the two shots hinders the user greatly. Even if you're sacrificing your combat abilities for increased fire power, it really puts you on the spot, and can easily get you killed in the most inopportune of situations. I think having 4 shots would be generous, but a minimum of 3 would nice, and likely increase its use a bit. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2014.08.28 02:32:00 - [110] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Wow a dev has actually said something i agree with. The funny thing is that i am a burst hmg user. Having a blast right now with 3 damage mods prof 5 and a burst hmg mowing over even most other sentinels in my way. I somewhat feel bad.. Right up till some scout decloaks behind me and firest off 3 rounds into my head before i can even turn around. Right up till then though i feel a little bad. I do agree that it's a tad too powerful, and love the damn thing, but unless ganged up on, very few can stand toe to toe with me in my speed tanked/damage modded Minmatar Sentinel. It's like having a shotgun firing up to 40m, and is only that much better when you have speed and 3 second full stamina regeneration with the Minmatar... I only hope that it doesn't get nerfed too bad, but with the current progress of balancing weapons and changes, I'm not too concerned about it becoming the next flaylock. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 247	Posted - 2014.08.28 03:02:00 - [111] - Quote Sorry didnt read the whole thread just the long OP. Scouts cannot be invisible to everyone with a cloak and use the additional equipment slot to out supply a standard logistics suit le alone someone who has spent 2 million SP. However a logistics suit can fit a cloak and have 2-3 equipment slots spare. Scouts are good at strafing but they are not much faster then most other suits unless they dump SP and low modules into Kin Cats. So they give up both armour and dampening for strafe. And considering that everyone turns at the same speed it isn't a great advantage. It generally just means running to your death faster. eWar scouts are squishy as much as they become silent to hit with an alpha weapon most weapons can rip them apart. Try running around with 300 eHP or less. Sentinels are slow and yes they use LAVs to counter that. REs counter them on foot or in LAVs. Swarms are good against LAVs. Countering an HMG in its natural environment is difficult. So yes I will pull out chocolates and a breach shotgun for the job. Or flux and tease. A medium suit can rip apart an HMG at 60m, in close it is there environment. My take on 514: Five Empires, One Dead, Four Alive
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4558	Posted - 2014.08.28 04:32:00 - [112] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: 1. Ammunition is low enough as is. Perhaps a pellet increase upon tier, after reducing the basic varient's first and go up from there? If not, then drastic increases in damage could be implemented, after the basic varient has it's reduced to a margin, making advanced and prototype varients significantly more powerful and worthwhile than the former,and again, go up from there. 2. Reduced and then increased upon tier pellets could be interesting, but my concern with that it could possibly screw around with hit detection and performance, even though it doesn't have hit detection issues currently (for me anyway), it's just that the reticule completely lies to you, implying that it's suppose to spread, but in actuality it's dead frickin' center, like the Hmg use to be, and is likely the same issue with the accuracy simply being too accurate. The accuracy could be reduced by about 0.10, like the Hmg was to actually give it spread, which increased its performance very significantly (I believe that was the amount anyway, 0.10, don't take my word for it). 3. You won't two shot a severely tanked heavy btw (unless their caldari, poor bastards...), which is likely at least or over 1400ehp with 2 shots from a basic shotgun, but it probably would need 3-5 shots in total to do so. That's the only time when an advanced or prototype shotgun comes in handy, otherwise, having a standard shotgun allows you to improve upon your fitting with the more room, and depending on their fit, makes them immensely more dangerous. 4. The breach is amazing, but having only the two shots hinders the user greatly. Even if you're sacrificing your combat abilities for increased fire power, it really puts you on the spot, and can easily get you killed in the most inopportune of situations. I think having 4 shots would be generous, but a minimum of 3 would nice, and likely increase its use a bit. 1. Agreed. Better scaling would be nice. 2. Agreed. Shotgun-like dispersion would be nice. 3. Agreed. The advanced hits for ~450/blast at 5 meters; the basic is not likely 2HK'ing heavies. 4. Disagreed. The Breach SG is in need of an overhaul; it hasn't been competitive since Chrome. * Additionally, would love to see proficiency reverted to rate of fire. Wish lists aside, Rattati just told us that the Shotgun is outperforming Fine Rifles. Why do you think this is, and how do you propose we fix it? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
voidfaction Nos Nothi 439	Posted - 2014.08.28 05:24:00 - [113] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP TBH the problem is cloaking. It's fun for scouts. For everyone else theres no game plan for it. I can be doing everything right and get shot in the back, try to fight back, get shot again and die. The only thing for it is to stick in tight groups. Grouping is good in general but to have no freedom to move around on your own because you KNOW you'll be shot in the back severely limits players' behaviors. Were all just herding around in little groups for safety. Cloak has made Dust more predictable and frustrating for most of the players. Remove cloaking and buff scouts in other ways. More speed and base HP, and interesting racial bonuses to replace the cloak bonus. Speed, scanning, scout bonuses, and the extra equipment slot are more than enough to make scouts stand apart from assaults. Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? Want an idea to replace the cloak with? One of the biggest bonuses you could give a scout? It's big and I don't think it is possible without a full rewrite of the game. Remove the targeting arrow above there head. I know it's huge and mega OP and would take 10000000s of hours programming to do it but if you Lobby enough you just might get that added in to replace the cloak. You might want to add dissabling aim-assist vs scouts also as that is one of the other bonuses the cloak provides for scouts that most of even them don't realize lets not forget the dampening bonus either. The cloak does a lot of things other than making scouts look like blue glowing dead jedi that a lot of skilled jedi seem to have the power to see easily. So when you ask to remove the cloak your asking to remove a lot more than you think.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 439	Posted - 2014.08.28 06:24:00 - [114] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Rattati PLEASE don't look at cloaking as sacrosanct. It was an interesting experiment, but we were enjoying Dust before it came along. It breaks the game too much and requires everyone to adapt to it--the definition of imbalance. Would a petition be useful? As a shotty scout myself, I'm a little biased toward the cloak, but in real honesty we should really consider a longer decloak to weapon swap delay before considering removing the cloak. Is it possible to remove R2 functionality (the weapon switch button) while the cloak is active? This would mean the player must tap R1 in order to regain use of the weapon and weapon switch mechanic. Actually now that you mention it that's a better idea than just removing cloak. Give it a 6/5/4 second delay and a slightly more noticeable decloaking sound. Balance that with lower fitting costs and more dampening (5/10/15) This would make cloaking a tool for traversing the map in secret, gathering intel, and getting into position for a sneak attack, but would make more difficult for scouts the sudden death strikes against players on the fringe of groups or on their own. They could still sneak up behind you but there's more of a chance your squad mate could alert you or that you would turn and have a chance to respond before 3/4 of your HP is gone. 6/5/4 second wow!!!! a min scout can run in hack an objective and be gone all while you wait for your cloak to turn off, lol
voidfaction Nos Nothi 439	Posted - 2014.08.28 06:36:00 - [115] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: @843-Vika The delay I am talking about applies to all scouts. What I am spit balling is the idea that Min scouts would be able manually decloak the fastest. I apologize if that didn't make sense in my post. So you want to add another bonus to the min scout? what do you think they are going to come after next now that NK's are fixed? They do more dmg than shotgun and dont require reloading or ammo. When shotgun is no longer a 1-2 hit kill weapon more scouts will be running NK's I hate both shotgun and nk's but the nk fix and the rise in scouts now that nothing can detect them has forced me into one or the other to even the playing field. I know I will be going to NK's after shotgun nerf unless something happens to keep scouts in check. amarr scout can hide from everything with the best precision. at least the cal scout had other cal scouts to fear.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3995	Posted - 2014.08.28 06:48:00 - [116] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. You're shitting me right? Shotgun scouts pull numbers better than burst HMG's in PC's. But it's not the shotty, it's the cloak. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
voidfaction Nos Nothi 439	Posted - 2014.08.28 07:00:00 - [117] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. You're shitting me right? Shotgun scouts pull numbers better than burst HMG's in PC's. But it's not the shotty, it's the cloak. If it's the cloak then AR scouts should be doing the same. It's the ability to use a 1-2 hit kill weapon straight out of cloak. If it was only the cloak then you would have the same problem with all the weapons. If they nerf the shotgun the problem will be with NK now that there use is on the rise and is also a 1-2 hit kill weapon. Funny you don't see no post about cloaked scouts and AR's
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4562	Posted - 2014.08.28 14:59:00 - [118] - Quote voidfaction wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. You're shitting me right? Shotgun scouts pull numbers better than burst HMG's in PC's. But it's not the shotty, it's the cloak. If it's the cloak then AR scouts should be doing the same. It's the ability to use a 1-2 hit kill weapon straight out of cloak. If it was only the cloak then you would have the same problem with all the weapons. If they nerf the shotgun the problem will be with NK now that there use is on the rise and is also a 1-2 hit kill weapon. Funny you don't see no post about cloaked scouts and AR's Apples and Oranges. Unless you're shooting a Scout, killing from behind takes awhile with the AR. When hit, targets have ample time to run or rotate and return fire. Targets have less time to respond when hit in the back with a Shotgun, which is news well-received for the 300HP Scout pulling the trigger. That said, overperformance is overperformance. I'm in agreement with Zatara that cloak is playing a bigger part in shotgun performance than the shotgun itself; performance statistics -- should they exist -- will likely point to poor shotgun performance prior 1.8. If we were somehow able to implement a very brief delay between decloak and attack, I suspect we'd see an immediate decline in shotgun usage, performance and complaints. And by "brief" I mean one second ... not six seconds (facepalm). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
voidfaction Nos Nothi 447	Posted - 2014.08.28 15:11:00 - [119] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: voidfaction wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. You're shitting me right? Shotgun scouts pull numbers better than burst HMG's in PC's. But it's not the shotty, it's the cloak. If it's the cloak then AR scouts should be doing the same. It's the ability to use a 1-2 hit kill weapon straight out of cloak. If it was only the cloak then you would have the same problem with all the weapons. If they nerf the shotgun the problem will be with NK now that there use is on the rise and is also a 1-2 hit kill weapon. Funny you don't see no post about cloaked scouts and AR's Apples and Oranges. Unless you're shooting a Scout, killing from behind takes awhile with the AR. When hit, targets have ample time to run or rotate and return fire. Targets have less time to respond when hit in the back with a Shotgun, which is news well-received for the 300HP Scout pulling the trigger. That said, overperformance is overperformance. I'm in agreement with Zatara that cloak is playing a bigger part in shotgun performance than the shotgun itself; performance statistics -- should they exist -- will likely point to poor shotgun performance prior 1.8. If we were somehow able to implement a very brief delay between decloak and attack, I suspect we'd see an immediate decline in shotgun usage, performance and complaints. And by "brief" I mean one second ... not six seconds (facepalm). Well in that case remove the invisibility part of the cloak but leave the rest (dampening bonus, no aim-assist, and no cheveron unless able to be scanned on tac-net). So many scouts think the shimmer is no different than not being cloaked anyway. [edit] yes a delay needs to be longer. 6s is crazy but i would say 2-3s would be decent.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 267	Posted - 2014.08.28 17:48:00 - [120] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. Agree entirely! They focus too much on pleasing call of duty players instead of encouraging them to run as a team! "Anybody order chaos?"

Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 267	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:11:00 - [121] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever. Nerf it to its previous stats or leave it the same, makes no difference to me. Assault HMG is the only one that's truly horrible. Umm people who complain about the shotgun are generally not very good players...its a very easy weapon to counter, considering it doesn't shoot past 10 meters, and is about as effective as an ACR or duvolle in CQC. The burst HMG, however.... Shotguns hit further than 10 meters "Anybody order chaos?"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 193	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:17:00 - [122] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. Agree entirely! They focus too much on pleasing call of duty players instead of encouraging them to run as a team! i agree, instead of catering to whiny scrubs that get killed by stuff they dont like in pubs they should buff or nerf based on what gets used the most in pc games. so for example projectiles and rails are obviously op because thats all that gets used, blasters and lasers never get used and should be buffed deader than A line flares with pockets in the knees
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4567	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:25:00 - [123] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Shotguns hit further than 10 meters For very little damage. Try it ... With your shotgun painting a target, watch your "efficiency" reading on TacNet as you step beyond 5 meters. The reduction means each pellet that lands is going to hit at a discount. Now grab a friend and shoot him at 5 meters, at 10 meters, then at 15 meters. You'll find that damage drops exponentially rather than linearly. You'll also find that variability in damage per blast increases substantially outside of 5 meters. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2366	Posted - 2014.08.28 18:55:00 - [124] - Quote shotgun isn't overpowered by itself. It's the shotgun + the current iteration of the scout. Bluntly the Prototype SMGs are just as bad so far as it goes, and nova knives. But it's the current iteration of the scout suit that makes it seem OP, pure and simple. The ease of getting into shotgun optimal is the killer, not the weapon itself. Before the current scout meta shotguns were niche weapons operated by solo opportunists who were incredibly sneaky without the EWAR buffs.
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:17:00 - [125] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: shotgun isn't overpowered by itself. It's the shotgun + the current iteration of the scout. Bluntly the Prototype SMGs are just as bad so far as it goes, and nova knives. But it's the current iteration of the scout suit that makes it seem OP, pure and simple. The ease of getting into shotgun optimal is the killer, not the weapon itself. Before the current scout meta shotguns were niche weapons operated by solo opportunists who were incredibly sneaky without the EWAR buffs. The Ewar passive buffs were what always made the scouts so OP but with the addition oof the cal and ammar scouts that was where they started to stand out. Shotguns were always a niche weapon like you said and before they changed the proficiency skill the extra RoF was very much needed, and is still needed because like you said if you miss the first shot your just another dead clone for the biomass chambers.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4449	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:24:00 - [126] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. Agree entirely! They focus too much on pleasing call of duty players instead of encouraging them to run as a team! i agree, instead of catering to whiny scrubs that get killed by stuff they dont like in pubs they should buff or nerf based on what gets used the most in pc games. so for example projectiles and rails are obviously op because thats all that gets used, blasters and lasers never get used and should be buffed It's not really about the PC part. It's just the only place where (in most cases) 50% of the players aren't complete idiots. Good players have tactics they use to farm idiots. Why should you balance around that? Why not do something to try to push those players into squads? Why not push them with incentives to try and actually win matches? Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4449	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:26:00 - [127] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: shotgun isn't overpowered by itself. It's the shotgun + the current iteration of the scout. Bluntly the Prototype SMGs are just as bad so far as it goes, and nova knives. But it's the current iteration of the scout suit that makes it seem OP, pure and simple. The ease of getting into shotgun optimal is the killer, not the weapon itself. Before the current scout meta shotguns were niche weapons operated by solo opportunists who were incredibly sneaky without the EWAR buffs. The Ewar passive buffs were what always made the scouts so OP but with the addition oof the cal and ammar scouts that was where they started to stand out. Shotguns were always a niche weapon like you said and before they changed the proficiency skill the extra RoF was very much needed, and is still needed because like you said if you miss the first shot your just another dead clone for the biomass chambers. The passive scans being so powerful along with active scanners are what make the Gal Scout so powerful. When you can see 95% of the players that one that is invisible is going to tear some stuff up. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:28:00 - [128] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever. Nerf it to its previous stats or leave it the same, makes no difference to me. Assault HMG is the only one that's truly horrible. Umm people who complain about the shotgun are generally not very good players...its a very easy weapon to counter, considering it doesn't shoot past 10 meters, and is about as effective as an ACR or duvolle in CQC. The burst HMG, however.... Shotguns hit further than 10 meters You mean they tickle at 10+ meters, right? My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 194	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:37:00 - [129] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones. But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing. Agree entirely! They focus too much on pleasing call of duty players instead of encouraging them to run as a team! i agree, instead of catering to whiny scrubs that get killed by stuff they dont like in pubs they should buff or nerf based on what gets used the most in pc games. so for example projectiles and rails are obviously op because thats all that gets used, blasters and lasers never get used and should be buffed It's not really about the PC part. It's just the only place where (in most cases) 50% of the players aren't complete idiots. Good players have tactics they use to farm idiots. Why should you balance around that? Why not do something to try to push those players into squads? Why not push them with incentives to try and actually win matches? i agree m8 you should never balance around people taking advantage of idiots in pubs with whatever weapon they happen to be using deader than A line flares with pockets in the knees
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 189	Posted - 2014.08.28 19:42:00 - [130] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: 843-Vika wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: shotgun isn't overpowered by itself. It's the shotgun + the current iteration of the scout. Bluntly the Prototype SMGs are just as bad so far as it goes, and nova knives. But it's the current iteration of the scout suit that makes it seem OP, pure and simple. The ease of getting into shotgun optimal is the killer, not the weapon itself. Before the current scout meta shotguns were niche weapons operated by solo opportunists who were incredibly sneaky without the EWAR buffs. The Ewar passive buffs were what always made the scouts so OP but with the addition oof the cal and ammar scouts that was where they started to stand out. Shotguns were always a niche weapon like you said and before they changed the proficiency skill the extra RoF was very much needed, and is still needed because like you said if you miss the first shot your just another dead clone for the biomass chambers. The passive scans being so powerful along with active scanners are what make the Gal Scout so powerful. When you can see 95% of the players that one that is invisible is going to tear some stuff up. Assuming that you're referring to being both visually and and electronically cloaked, it honestly isn't hard to fight of the offending scout. They're versatile, but not powerful by default. Unless you're a new player (lol), and have lackluster experience with using and observing radar or cloaks, then it makes a difference, but the average player isn't completely blind, and this is quite evident as playing mainly as a scout (Gallente and Minmatar). I do use Assaults and Heavies in the same matches, and I just choose what suits the situation. I am seeing a lot more redberries and blueberries that don't even seem to understand how shooting works as of late, let alone having the ability to counter a cloak user, which makes them easy kills for anyone with experience... which is sad, as I can only interpret that as a migrating player base flocking to the next big thing. I had large channel of people that I played with quite frequently, and there are only about 4 of them left now that bother to get on. The only time I find cloaks difficult to see is if the background is insanely bright, or I'm flying around in my Incubus, as I'm moving too fast in the air and players on the ground are smaller in perspective, making cloaks difficult to track, but it is hardly an issue in balance, gameplay, or mechanics in that case. It's fine as is. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4453	Posted - 2014.08.28 20:00:00 - [131] - Quote I'm not saying I have a hard time seeing cloaks. I'm saying that people in squads who have good passive scans take them for granted. Not many people are running fully damped in pubs. I've seen some Gal Scouts go bananas in PC when the opposing team couldn't scan them down. Perhaps without being able to frisbee toss REs this wouldn't have been possible though. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11855	Posted - 2014.08.28 20:36:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev If you ever used the Ion Pistol you would know how crazy underpowered it is. It can't kill a militia assault without a whole heap of luck, as you hope that the low damage shots don't miss in that giant reticule (despite me using a Gal Assault and having sharpshooter), because if you DO miss, you just lost damage from that pathetic damage per clip that can't even kill half the suits on the battlefield without reloading. And even if you DO land every shot, and the suit you are fighting against has low enough HP, it still has atrocious DPS. I literally find it better to melee people than attempt to use the Ion Pistol when I run out of ammo on my AR. I'm sorry, but I had to rant about your comment with the sidearms. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.