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CamClarke
Inner.Hell
60
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Posted - 2014.08.26 14:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like this to be a constructive thread discussing the current CQC/Scout/Sentinel meta. Please, share your thoughts on it.
Below are my own personal opinions and observations on it, colored with large amounts of butthurt because I mad. They largely relate to Skirmish maps.
I am quite fed up with this current meta. I appreciate that Rattati is trying, really, I do, but the proliferation of unscannable (some even with a gk.0 logi's Focused Active Scanner, which has poor angle, recharge, and scan duration) shotgun scouts combined with the ungodly amounts of Sentinel spam is quickly making it so there is no reason to use anything else. Anything that can't see EVERYTHING dies horribly, unless it has 1.8k EHP and moves only slightly faster than the average snail. CQC is very obviously the new meta, as competent cloaked scouts no longer have to fear being spotted by anything, can outstrafe non-alpha weapons if they are spotted, and can provide nearly as much (or more, thanks to speed) logistics power as people that spent 2 million SP on a real logistics suit. CQC is so widespread that I am actually having more success in stopping Scouts/Sentinels while solo with a STD shotgun on a STD assault than with most PRO rifles on other fits.
My frustration lies in that what suits I do have (Caldari Assault, Caldari Commando, and Gallente Logistics) are worthless when compared to the Scouts and Sentinels. An Assault is still non-viable, as they can't pick up anything smaller than a dump truck on passive scans, and even then it's only when they're almost right on top of you. Chances are, it's a Sentinel, with a Six Kin BHMG, so if you do try to run and get some range on him, he's still coming around that corner and killing you in one or two bursts. You'll never see a Scout on passive in a non-Scout suit, even completely undampened, so they can always get the drop on you, killing you instantly. Medium suits are the prey of unseen Scouts and monstrous Sentinels, both of which Medium-class suits have a difficult time dealing with due to the fact that Mediums are mediocre at everything. Sure, you can get into a position where you can provide overwatch, but any Commando does that job better.
Gallente Logistics would be good, were it not for the fact that ever since Active Scanners were nerfed into oblivion, Scouts can simply see more, more often, in 360 degrees, while fighting effectively. Being "useful" as a Gallente Logistics involves staying in one safe, preferably ladderless rooftop location cycling two or more scanners, as they lack the HP to get in the fighting without dying almost immediately. If bricked, they move about as fast as an Amarr Sentinel, so they cannot dodge or reach cover. If not bricked, they still do not move very fast, and die even faster because passive reps are completely irrelevant in the current state of the game. Either way, Logistics suits lack the damage capabilities necessary for dealing with Sentinels and cannot evade a competent Scout under most circumstances long enough to kill it. Apparently Minmatar Logistics are pretty good at keeping the Sentinel swarm up and running, but that's probably the only thing any of the four Logistics can do that a scout cannot do just as well or better.
It seems like the only viable non-Scout, non-Sentinel suits are the Caldari Commando and Minmatar Commando, both of which require you to sit in one good position and do nothing else but provide overwatch/shoot at vehicles. Caldari has the Rail Rifle, so can provide top-notch rifle-based overwatch once perched with Swarms as AV backup, while the Minmatar Commando has Mass Drivers, Swarm Launchers, and Combat Rifles, giving them a little bit of ground power and decent overwatch, but mostly used for easy AV with its big bonus to Swarms.
I'm happy that Scouts and Sentinels are having fun with their time in the sun, but it is the entire Medium suit range that is paying the price. Mediums have nothing to call their own, and are outperformed at almost every turn. Literally half of the available dropsuits (4 Assaults, 4 Logistics, 2 Commandos) have been marginalized due to their jobs being able to be done better by the other half (4 Sentinels, 4 Scouts, 2 Commandos). I have no ideas on how to fix it though, since the game is actually in the most balanced state it's been in since Chromosome.
Can't give Assaults more damage, otherwise they push out Commandos. Can't give them more equipment slots, pushes out Logistics. Can't give them eWar, because it'll still be worthless on non-Scouts. They just got a HP buff, which, while welcome and breathed a little life into them, was simply not enough to overcome their other problems. They are simply the kings of mediocrity. Being a jack of all trades in a game were you MUST be a master of at least one is a recipe for having a bad time. Their only value is in a pub match, where they will still be HMG'd and shotgunned until forced to rage quit.
Can't give Logistics more HP, otherwise they push out Assaults. Can't give them damage, can't give them eWar, they're fine on equipment. They share most problems of Assaults, while being even more dependent on teammates to make up for their myriad weaknesses.
I honestly do not know what the underlying problem is that is making HMGs/Shotguns suddenly so amazing and the go-to weapons. At what point did the rifles become useless? Was it the nerfs to all of them? Or was it a chain reaction of Scouts getting cloaks, using rifles, then people switching to Sentinel to gun them and everyone else down, then Scouts switching to the high-alpha Shotguns to kill the Sentinels?
The current meta has been a massive source of frustration to me while I wait to get the SP to chase the FOTM myself just to stay relevant. My only solace is that the triple SP week starts tomorrow, which will put me all of halfway to my goal. With an Omega booster.
tl;dr: scout and heavy qq, i need to git gud, etc etc |
RayRay James
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
389
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
CamClarke wrote:
Gallente Logistics would be good, were it not for the fact that ever since Active Scanners were nerfed into oblivion, Scouts can simply see more, more often, in 360 degrees, while fighting effectively. Being "useful" as a Gallente Logistics involves staying in one safe, preferably ladderless rooftop location cycling two or more scanners, as they lack the HP to get in the fighting without dying almost immediately. If bricked, they move about as fast as an Amarr Sentinel, so they cannot dodge or reach cover. If not bricked, they still do not move very fast, and die even faster because passive reps are completely irrelevant in the current state of the game. Either way, Logistics suits lack the damage capabilities necessary for dealing with Sentinels and cannot evade a competent Scout under most circumstances long enough to kill it. Apparently Minmatar Logistics are pretty good at keeping the Sentinel swarm up and running, but that's probably the only thing any of the four Logistics can do that a scout cannot do just as well or better.
It seems like the only viable non-Scout, non-Sentinel suits are the Caldari Commando and Minmatar Commando, both of which require you to sit in one good position and do nothing else but provide overwatch/shoot at vehicles. tl;dr: scout and heavy qq, i need to git gud, etc etc
I've been using the Gal logi since 1.0 (now with full proto goodness) and my suit hasn't changed much even with the nerfs and buffs. I would argue that you can be really useful as a logi if you know your roll and play it as such. I was in a PC match breaking corp doctrine about needles and we barely won on clone count vs MCC. Even though I was told "we dont run needles in PC" I haven't changed my suit ever and considering we won with 1 clone on the map, I think it worked out. That being said, logis were never meant to be slayers, they're support suits first, bad killers second. Play it like that instead of as an assault suit with more equipment and you'll generally do better.
The Gal Commando (ADV gear) I have is a lot of fun and I do quite well with it. CR and TAR and some adv armor mods and adv dmg mod. Can take a fair amount of abuse and can rep its self with the 2 repping hives I have on it.
Are there better suits out there? Probably. Every suit has pros and cons, that's the point. The "meta" (FOTM) doesn't matter. Let the chasers have their shotguns and invisible suits. They'll get nerfed, again, and then we'll be on to the next FOTM. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4382
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I use a needle in PC too, but only the 100% ones.
But when a person is involved in PC and takes it serious it's not FOTM, it's a shift in meta, there is a difference. A lot of the things considered FOTM in pubs don't translate to PC very well. It's another issue in my opinion with CCP being overly concerned about solo players in pubs when balancing.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4382
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run.
I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1257
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run.
I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day. right now you will see 3 OP things that dominate in PC. shotgun scouts spaming REs, heavys 6kin burst HMG, ADS. i run assault and don't get me wrong it is hardmode but it can be done and done well.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5729
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely.
We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months.
1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff.
So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all.
P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5729
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Cass Caul
917
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
Last time I saw a Dev play, I sent a mail to them.
Subject: GG Body: You almost went KDR Positive
Which server do you play on
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Cass Caul
918
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP
You're shitting us, right?
The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots.
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2504
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden.
I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
238
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
What do you mean bring your A game? You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. |
Cass Caul
918
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden.
The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead.
900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them.
I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5737
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jack 3enimble wrote:You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks..
Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4386
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Sadly, I haven't been involved in PC much this month so I haven't seen first hand how the meta has shifted in PC matches. I assumed that Gal Scouts would be the most OP suit in the history of FPS, but that hasn't been the case from the pubs I've run.
I know before HF Charlie, if you didn't have a Cal Scout in your heavy squad you were going to have a rough day. right now you will see 3 OP things that dominate in PC. shotgun scouts spaming REs, heavys 6kin burst HMG, ADS. i run assault and don't get me wrong it is hardmode but it can be done and done well.
As long as you have those things you mentioned covered and use the assaults and other stuff to supplement you are good. If you don't have passive scans you'll get eaten alive in the city by those Gal Scouts.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4386
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Changing uplinks to a lower number of variants and applying skills as bonuses instead of 10 different variants to eliminate spam would change the meta in HUGE ways.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
239
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Jack 3enimble wrote:You were in my match yesterday for 5 seconds before you backed right out. Your team was redlined and spawning like 5 tanks.. Saw you, I was dumbing around trying to make an AV fit (I didn't have one on CCP Rattati) and got AFK kicked
Fair enough man hahaha.
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Heimdallr69
Nyain San
3324
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. I love seeing heavies with shotguns.. They make me smile
Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
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Arirana
Pure Evil.
713
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. I love seeing heavies with shotguns.. They make me smile Seeing one camp in the null cannon panel covering in a dom makes my smile even wider |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4789
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots.
Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head.
Burst HMG is whatever. |
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
2183
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Oh yes it can. The stupid weapon is basically god tier on a cargo hub because the scout can pretty much hop the railing and trolololol all the way home after putting a few shells into the back of a heavies head. Burst HMG is whatever. Nerf it to its previous stats or leave it the same, makes no difference to me. Assault HMG is the only one that's truly horrible. Umm people who complain about the shotgun are generally not very good players...its a very easy weapon to counter, considering it doesn't shoot past 10 meters, and is about as effective as an ACR or duvolle in CQC.
The burst HMG, however....
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1916
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Is it possible to make this data public for us to misinterperate look over? I'm sure I and many other would like to examine some actual data rather than just hearsay and personal opinions. |
Groz'zar Kazoku
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You're shitting us, right? The Shotgun is a tool for pubs. It can't compete against dropsuits with enough HP to tank 2 shots. Yeah, it can. slap a cloak on there and you're golden. The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead. 900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them. It's a Specialized Alpha Damage weapon. If I'm running a shotgun and I get the drop on you, by all rights you should be killed. Its Optimal Range is 4.8m. Moving while cloaked doesn't render you invisible, it leaves a glowing blue outline. You're just as likely to notice or ignore it as you are someone that isn't cloaked that's got a Scan Profile under your team's Scan Precision.
I disagree. If your dying your trigger pulls are out of timing or your using the craptastic breach shotgun. If its a tanked sentinel you can get off about four rounds walking around him as he turns before he can even get close to shooting you. Its about the only thing 1v1 that kills me a shot gunner sneaking up and blowing my brains onto the ground. The good ones. not the ones that cloak in front of you and try to run at you. The ones that cloak off to the side and get right behind you before wrecking you. Also if your good I have seen people two shot people at 10M+ I know I know I probably couldn't blah blah blah. but it happens too often to not be something that is pretty common. scouts are extremely powerful and the nova knives buff just made the min scout scoot up that ladder a bit. To be honest it trumps the shotgun as a main weapon. If your going cloaked might as well take the OhKO weapon with you. Nothing not even heavies can take a damaged stacked min scout with charged nova knives. seen skilled users of the nova knives walk in and tear apart two entire squads. I was lucky and spotted him with enough time to head shot him twice. but to be honest if they close your screwed. no escape from min scouts ever by anyone. highest speed and side step in the game. |
Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
3190
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Posted - 2014.08.26 16:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection.
Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol). |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1633
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sounds to me like people have forgotten how to play an fps without a cal scout wall hack. Give it time, the amarr scouts will be skilled in a week and you will have it back.
If someone killed you with a shotgun, they would have killed you even faster with a fine rifle or hmg. That's just simple math and dps.
Minjas are the ultimate glass cannon. You sneeze on them and they die. If they are speed and dmg fit they have around 200 hp. Plus all you have to do is panic backpedal in a circle while hip firing. Running some precision enhances will fix that as then they will be forced to remove a kincat and fit damps. Medium frames can fit ewar or utilize active scanners to great effect. It's a simple counter but most people don't want to sacrifice their hp mods or nano hives to do it.
To the OP, you have a suit that is the antithesis of the scouts. You can use active scanners to a huge effect and cause them to run damps and change their entire play style.
My Youtube
Biomassed Podcast
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Groz'zar Kazoku
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. |
REDBACK96USMC
Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance
16
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP Shotguns are definitely NOT OP. Their RoF has been nerfed since the proficiency change, their range is horrible, and their worst quality (if I could call it that) is the hit detection. Not only that, but the operation skill makes it harder to use per level, awkwardly enough. If a change is coming to the shotgun, let it be the operation skill and change it to RoF or something useful. Maybe an increase in pellet count or hit detection (lol).
I still chuckle when I push the button, you hear the boom from the shotgun and then 4 seconds later they fly through the air and die from it.
The only thing I would really take a look at is what the speed does to the hit detection on a scout suit. Rattati needs to make a scout with 9.5m/s or over and try this in a pub:
Run in the middle of redberries. Wiggle left stick back and forth and jump around as fast as you can.
Laugh Maniacally until they finally kill you. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
1633
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
Groz'zar Kazoku wrote:Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits.
Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps.
Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario.
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
960
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:
The cloak may help you get there, but after you fire the first shot they start to turn around. Before the second shot they've started to fire, before the third shot you're dead.
900 eHP against a shotgun gives you all you need to win an encounter with them.
It's a Specialized Alpha Damage weapon. If I'm running a shotgun and I get the drop on you, by all rights you should be killed. Its Optimal Range is 4.8m.
Moving while cloaked doesn't render you invisible, it leaves a glowing blue outline. You're just as likely to notice or ignore it as you are someone that isn't cloaked that's got a Scan Profile under your team's Scan Precision.
If they strafe in the direction of your turn, they can easily get 3 hits in before you can align with them.
IgniteableAura wrote:Groz'zar Kazoku wrote:Uhhh Assaults can not effectively Ewar scouts. this has never and will never be without a buff. a Assault with a bunch of mods for ewar will barely pick up a base scout at that level. let alone one half maxed out. So no just no don't try to get people to make half assed suits. Math must be hard for you. Fitting two cPEs allows assaults to see half of the scouts if they aren't running damps. 3cPE will allow to see all scouts that aren't running damps. Logistics can fit one less precision than assaults for the same scenario. ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc... Then basic advanced and complex should be relevant tier competitors. Making them flat value changes instead of % would help with this.
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Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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Vell0cet
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
2205
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is in pubs, so less relevant than PC, but I'm seeing more diversity in Charlie than I've ever seen before. Active scanners might deserve a buff to their scan angle a bit, and I think a short firing delay between decloaking and firing is reasonable. Looking forward to the sidearm changes so we see more than just SMGs in the kill feed.
Once that's implemented, I think it'll be time to revisit the NPE and starter fits, so we can expose new players to a broad diversity of suits/weapons (and even giving them 1 free militia tank, and a free militia dropship). My proposal is to have CCP make a bunch of pre-made 0 sp militia fits with a handful of copies of each that come pre-loaded at launch. Unlike starter fits (which remain unlimited), these would need to be restocked and are no different than if the player had made them. I think this would really help showcase the diversity of fits/playstyles available in DUST to the Academy player, many/most of whom I suspect have no clue that all of those militia items are available to them.
I think this would improve diversity even further.
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dent 308
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3141
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Posted - 2014.08.26 17:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
What?
Quote: Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months.
Edit : Why wouldn't this have been sorted 2 years ago?
Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart.
Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
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