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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Zindorak
1.U.P
683
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Posted - 2014.08.26 22:29:00 -
[61] - Quote
Light Weapon Tier list. Post if you agree or disagree S Class Rail Rifle A Class Combat Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Charge Sniper Rifle B Class Assault Rail Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Swarm Launcher, Tactical Sniper Rifle C class Laser Rifle, all variants of the Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Breach Assault Rifle, Breach Shotgun, Assault Scrambler Rifle D class Assault Rifle, Burst Assault Rifle, Tactical Assault Rifle. Assault Swarm Launcher I didn't know how to rate the Swarms or Plasma Cannon. But i think they are pretty good at what they do which is AV or killing for the Plasma Cannon if you are good at killing with it. I will do Sidearms next. I didn't Count Specialists because you only get lowered fitting costs and it doesn't affect the performance of the weapon.
Pokemon master!
CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
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Rusty Shallows
Caldari State
2023
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Posted - 2014.08.26 22:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics.Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? I pray to God that he is using statistics. Our status as a toxic community is often showcased by irrational call-to-nerf tendencies.
I have a lot of respect for Classic Logis. New Eden could use more Healers.
Forums > Game: Biggest understatement ever
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Michael Arck
5273
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Posted - 2014.08.26 22:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
Lol alright then, lets do this.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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13ear
225
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Posted - 2014.08.26 23:02:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over.
Few points though:
1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits.
2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons.
3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates.
The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below:
Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125 Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122
Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot.
4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles, bringing back enforcer tanks would be a good start.
5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rate. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout has the same regen as the CalAssault.
6. Weapon customization.
7. Player market.
Only changes that I'd really like to see in HF Delta would be 1, 2 & 3.
One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings - Diogenes
Winner of EU Squad Cup
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5803
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Posted - 2014.08.27 05:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
13ear wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3.
Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5803
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Posted - 2014.08.27 05:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps?
Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different)
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V.
1827
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:05:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) Is there any way you can share in a little detail your thoughts on the Burst HMG and what tweaks if any you feel are needed?
Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Leovarian L Lavitz
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
1144
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Posted - 2014.08.27 06:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Heavies are the counter to Mediums are the Counter To Scouts Are the Counter to Heavies
So I would first fix the ewar to reflect this. Heavies have horrible EWar, no change, they get Damage and HP Mediums have PRECISION to pick up sneaky scouts, they get Moderate amounts of damage, hp and speed Scouts have RANGE to pick up heavies, however they may sacrifice slots to fight ewar with Mediums. Scouts can't pick up each other naturally without sacrificing slots.
This changes the current profile of Scouts get damp, range, and precision. Precision enhancers and range extenders increase scan profile by the same amount that they increase their respective modifiers. This balances the suits, if the frame wants to see everyone everywhere, then everyone everywhere can see them. However, they can fit profile dampners to counter the effects - no brick tanking radar shotgun scouts.
Omni-Soldier
Few are my equal in these specialties, none compare in all of them
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Spankdamonke
Dapper Gentlemen Corporation
6
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Posted - 2014.08.27 09:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different) Is there any way you can share in a little detail your thoughts on the Burst HMG and what tweaks if any you feel are needed?
I'm also interested to hear your opinions regarding the Burst. The FEEL of it is in such a good place now (ROF and burst delay), and the balancing factors work well, but it admittedly just does too much too well in it's current state. What do yourself and the CPM propose Mr. Rattati?
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
962
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Posted - 2014.08.27 09:45:00 -
[70] - Quote
IgniteableAura wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:IgniteableAura wrote:Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:
ONE precision enhancer should reveal all normal scouts, then it should tier up from there. 1 dampener scout = 2 precision assault, 2 dampener scout = 3 precision assault, etc...
No...assaults shouldn't be "heavy" scouts. Besides logistics can already do this. Scouts have to fit one precision to see scouts too except the amarr and gal as they get bonuses to them. If you want to counter a scout with an assault either run a focused scanner or sacrifice all your hp to do so. Scouts have to sacrifice multiple low slots to stay hidden just the same. Scouts that don't want to be seen can't be seen, but you have to force most of them to do that. And it's always a large sacrifice. The focused gal scans already require half the scouts to use the proto cloak and 3 damps. Without the cloak we are seen and can't fit any more lows. The gal is the only one who can forgo cloak for 3 damps. Explain how the theory I've laid out is unfair toward scouts. You can still hide, it just takes more effort, unless you have a racial bonus etc. Because that would mean assaults would have the better precision skills than a scout, which is role overlap and that is bad. An assault shouldn't be able to detect the same things a scout can, if you want to have better scans, start spending SP into Amarr scout. You can pick up scouts just fine without removing any hp mods by running an active scanner. It would take the exact same amount of effort on a scouts part to hide.
That is incredibly vague in terms of the example. The +1 for the suit base is a HEAVILY reduced and simplified version of the current "DB" scale... Also, scouts already role overlap Assaults by being able to stack HP and still go undetected, while Assaults have to sacrifice a bunch of Health just to detect basic Scouts. Either A: The variance has to close, so that stealth is something a scout must actually attempt to attain, Hence my example, or ----B: Scouts must loose so much health that even if an Assault stacks downwards for baseline scout detection, and said scout stacks all HP, that the Maximum health is lower than that available to the Assault at said detection level.
I thought that scouts would dislike loosing even more health than just making sensors actually worth something.
Also Scanners are temporary items with a cooldown, the tradeoff for better detection is a smaller range, and a region of time in which the detection does not work.
http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU
Dust to Dust
Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
406
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP
I wouldn't agree that SG is OP, however, the BHMG does feel OP at the moment. IMHO, the problem with BHMG is that it currently works more similarly to the SG then to HMG. You unload a ton of damage in under half a second, which means that people simply don't have time to react and seek cover. One well-aimed burst will kill any light suit, and a significant portion of mediums (at least in pubs). On top of that, it does so at a significantly better range than SG.
My proposal would be to lower the number of rounds fired in a burst, since less rounds per burst would increase the chance for someone to survive one burst. Nothing dramatic for start - maybe from 45 to 40, then see how it works.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Evan Gotabor
Prima Gallicus
54
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:13ear wrote:[quote=CCP Rattati]
4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc)
Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future.
As a pilot, itGÇÖs the first light of hope I have seen in 9 month. If you really want to do something about vehicles one day (and not only about turrets), donGÇÖt hesitate. There are a lot of things that can be done with only server-side changes.
Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.
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H0riz0n Unlimit
Inner.Hell
162
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:13ear wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3. Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future. 1 yeats ago tanks are the way
Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon
2757
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Posted - 2014.08.27 10:59:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different)
The problem is not the shotgun imo, the problem is who use the shotgun. Scouts with shotty are OP because they can be invisible/see and they can backstab people, that's the only reason why shotgun is so effective, put the shotgun in the hand of every other suit and it will be perfectly balanced.
PSN: ogamega
"Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
LOCK REGIONS
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George Moros
RestlessSpirits
406
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Posted - 2014.08.27 11:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different)
The problem is not the shotgun imo, the problem is who use the shotgun. Scouts with shotty are OP because they can be invisible/see and they can backstab people, that's the only reason why shotgun is so effective, put the shotgun in the hand of every other suit and it will be perfectly balanced.
Put the shotgun in any other suit, and it would be utterly UP. The combination of cloak + speed is what makes SG effective. The only other possible niche for effective shotgun use would be as a secondary weapon for (Gal) commandos.
I know that getting backstabbed is irritating, but it's the only way a scout can fight effectively. Of course, it can be debated whether the current balance allows scouts to be too effective at killing, but the core principle is perfectly OK, and shouldn't be changed.
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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Ryme Intrinseca
1637
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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
CamClarke wrote: An Assault is still non-viable, as they can't pick up anything smaller than a dump truck on passive scans, and even then it's only when they're almost right on top of you. If you need to see everyone on passive scans to be competitive, and want to run solo, then you need to be a scout. That's just a fact of life. They are actually CALLED SCOUTS FFS! What they are for is scouting.
The people that do well with assaults are the same as the people who do well with HMGs. They either run in squads with scouts and use their scans or they constantly look around, and trust their eyes to pick up cloaks. |
CamClarke
Inner.Hell
70
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Posted - 2014.08.27 12:48:00 -
[77] - Quote
Well, this thread certainly picked up. Even got the attention of Ratatti, which is nice.
@CCP Ratatti:
I'm glad you're keeping a close eye on things. Having kept up with the information, I know that the rifles are actually doing pretty well without one being blatantly better than the others.
Yes, the BHMG is quite obviously overperforming, and that one could stand some tweaking. I don't even hear many dedicated Sentinels disputing or defending it. It was pretty good before the buff from what I understand, but outclassed a bit by full-auto HMGs. The BHMG should most likely be just tweaked back to just slightly above what it was before Charlie, but I'm by no means an expert on them.
I don't feel that Shotguns themselves are what are causing them to be so high in the metrics, as their extreme damage is balanced out by extremely short range. Before cloaks came along, it was amazingly rare to see anyone use a Shotgun at all, with the exception of Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane way back in the day when those two terrorized us all. As I recall, Shotguns are one of the few weapons that have gone through virtually no changes throughout the lifetime of Dust. As others have stated, it is most likely the fact that Scouts now have the tools to get in extremely short range fairly safely, often undetected until it is too late, because there are simply no good means of detecting them other than another Scout or a gk.0 Logi, neither of which is guaranteed to spot them. As George Moros above said, the core principle of the Shotguns' and Scouts' backstabbing uses is correct and should be unchanged. The main problem is that it is too easy to set up these backstab scenarios. It also works wonders playing peek-a-boo even with your presence known versus non-Sentinels, as all it takes is rounding the nearest corner or box to force CQC.
As an aside to the above, you could say "throw a grenade" but the various nerfs to grenades have caused people to almost exclusively use Flux grenades, as they are more utilitarian and still most likely will do almost as much or more effective damage depending on the target. I think the last time I saw a Locus grenade kill was a few days ago, when I threw it at a wounded, trapped, being rifled down Sentinel that would have died anyway. And one that got me, when I was at 100 armor and would have died anyway. Fluxes are better than nothing though, I suppose.
I wonder, Ratatti, does your data happen to have a breakdown of what weapons are killing various suit types? If so, I'm curious to know if Shotguns are performing equally against them all or if there is some sort of disparity.
I'm glad to see you're considering buffs for shield-based tanking. If possible, I would very much like to see a (very very, almost nonexistent) small damage threshold on shield regen, like vehicles have, simply because it's far too easy to plink someone with a weapon far outside of effective range to stop it, a weakness armor-repping tanks do not have. It would go a long way to improve the quality of life of shield users.
@ Ryme Intrinseca: Its problems run deeper than just a lack of useful eWar, even in a squad setup. As far as skilling into a Scout, well, I'm working on it.
@Everyone else: Thank you for all your contributions to this thread. I can't reply to everyone individually of course, but I did read it all. Certainly saw good things. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4409
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:13ear wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Let me assure you that we are monitoring the situation very carefully. Every indication is that our Hotfixes are changing the landscape/meta slowly but surely. We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months. 1) Blaster Tanks - Took a KDR hit, but 10-20%, nothing grievous 2) Seeing Gallente and Caldari Scouts make way for both Minmatar and Amarr 3) Assault Rifles, really amazing actually how closely they perform but we are now seeing some bumps we would like to smooth out 4) HMG Sentinels, also seeing them and HMG efficience go down, but just right down to other suits and the HMG is on par with the Rifles. 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that. 6) Sidearms, we see that they are unbalanced, but the numbers aren't crazy, the Assault SMG is OP, and the Flaylock is UP, but overall, nothing crazy. It's just that everyone grows up with the SMG in their Starter fit and stick with it. 7) Dmg mods needed a tweak and got one, other shield mods in high will need a buff to compete with extenders. 8) Armor plate stacking is definitely on the way out, seeing way more reactives, ferros and repair modules, regulators need a buff. So again, the playerbase and engagement is actually as healthy as it has been for a long time, and I sincerely believe in making DUST 514 a better game for us all. P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev Thank you for making so many positive changes to DUST in such a small period of time. It seems the days of one step forward, two steps back may finally be over. Few points though: 1. I agree, regulators need a buff to discourage armour tanking shield based suits. 2. The Cal & Gal assault bonuses should be changed to something useful; Assaults should have always had bonuses to tank / regen modules. Not to weapons. 3. Whilst the HP that shield extenders provide may be relatively balanced, the fitting requirements aren't. They should be slightly more CPU intensive & cost less PG than plates. The best HP modules on armour based suits require less PG & CPU (Enh. plates, comp. ferroscale & comp. reactive) than comp. shield extenders. This gives armour based suits far superior fitting capacity w/o the need to sacrifice any HP. The Gal / Amarr assaults shouldn't be able to fit almost entirely PRO If Cal / Min assaults can't - See below: Gallente Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/7125Caldari Assault - http://www.protofits.com/fittings/view/0/7122Notice both fits have a STD side arm, BCR & sacrifice 1 PRO module slot. You'll also notice that the two fits are built pretty similarly (High regen / rep, no compromise in MS & all HP mods over dmg mods) Only, the GalAss can still fit PRO nades & PRO hives whilst the CalAss cannot. 4. Tanks may be in a good place in terms of survivability, but there's a definite lack of diversity. We shouldn't be seeing tankers all using the exact same fit, it's boring and defeats the purpose of having fully customizable vehicles. The addition of more vehicle modules or even changing the existing modules could work but it'd be far easier to simply bring back the tanks that were removed. (Tweaking them first ofc) 5. Scouts regen rates are too high, assaults are designed to be the frontline suit and should therefore have the highest regen rates. Scouts already have the smallest hitbox, best EWAR, highest MS & shortest regen delays. It perplexes me as to why the CalScout has a 67% higher shield regen rate than the CalAssault when the assault is supposed to be the best hit and run class; Not to mention the fact that the GalScout & CalAssault have the same regen rate. 6. Weapon customization. 7. Player market. EDIT: Only changes that I'd hope to see in HF Delta would be points 1, 2 & 3. Excellent points,thank you. Will take a good look at 4 and 5, 3 my only worry is that players will dual tank if extenders are too cheap. 100% agreement on 1 and 2. 6 and 7, of course I would too, but that is a client side change and not happening in the near future.
I wish someone more eloquent than I would pitch an idea to CCP about getting a sell to NPC option to compensate for the lack of player market.
I think this along with a complete FW store market and maybe a team deploy UI could lead to people buying FW boosters and PAYING for any dev time that it takes up.
My thoughts there:
1) Team Deploy into FW would give many people the repetitions needed to get proficient in playing as a team. 2) Players wanting access to AUR like gear (LP gear and AUR gear allowing access to proto gear with lower SP). Once they get hooked on the team play and the proto gear they'll want boosters. 3) People able to sell items they no longer use and salvage (perhaps a buff to salvage to boost this as well) leads to more vibrant fights. 4) More ISK in players pockets leads to more FW time and more boosters being sold.
Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet
PSN: wbrom42
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Ryme Intrinseca
1637
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:Light Weapon Tier list. Post if you agree or disagree S Class Rail Rifle A Class Combat Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle, Charge Sniper Rifle B Class Assault Rail Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun, Swarm Launcher, Tactical Sniper Rifle C class Laser Rifle, all variants of the Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon, Breach Assault Rifle, Breach Shotgun, Assault Scrambler Rifle D class Assault Rifle, Burst Assault Rifle, Tactical Assault Rifle. Assault Swarm Launcher I didn't know how to rate the Swarms or Plasma Cannon. But i think they are pretty good at what they do which is AV or killing for the Plasma Cannon if you are good at killing with it. I will do Sidearms next. I didn't Count Specialists because you only get lowered fitting costs and it doesn't affect the performance of the weapon. Disagree because I agree with Rattati, viz:
ScR>CR=ACR=RR=ARR>AScR, AR, BrAR, BuAR, TAR |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4797
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Posted - 2014.08.27 13:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP You can't be serious about the shotgun thing. Rattati is likely referring to usage statistics. Apparently, shotguns are popular. How popular do you think are Breach Shotguns? More popular than a Flaylock pistol, perhaps? Breach is severely UP as is the Flaylock, so it's not just about popularity, also avg Kills per Spawn per weapon, the shotgun is a healthy bit above all the rifles for example, ranks highest of all the lights actually (except snipers but they are different)
Breach isn't UP at all, it's simply a "no mistakes allowed" type of weapon. That makes it less popular.
Most players make mistakes. Were you to buff the breach in terms of damage it would do exactly what it does now, except heavies would be incredibly pissed off at you. Were you to buff it in terms of RoF, it would be redundant.
I would say leave the breach alone. If this game has a single skill intensive weapon that actually gives a payoff for using it well, the breach shotgun is it. |
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Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
3277
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: 5) Racial parity within each frame is something we keep an eye out, and it seems, even though Amarr is touted as the best of the bunch, that they are all on par. Minmatar overall do slightly worse and we will take note of that.
I'm curious to know, have you considered giving the Minmatar better shield regen and/or lower shield regen delay? People talk about the Min being hit and run, and while their natural high speed supports that, they aren't really so great with the low downtime part of being hit and run.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
5830
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:37:00 -
[82] - Quote
The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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nicholas73
Glitched Connection
174
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Posted - 2014.08.27 15:39:00 -
[83] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
We are measuring Kills/Spawn and Kills/Death ratios for dropsuits and weapons, and also Spawns/Consumption and Market Sales data to gauge player preference. Admittedly, most of these balancing and engagement data dashboards have been implemented over the last 3 months.
Would it be possible to reveal the data to us as well? I wanna drool at the stats.
Proud member of Glitched Connection
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
260
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Posted - 2014.08.27 17:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:P.P.S Shotguns and Burst HMG are OP
You really think Shotguns are op?
Shot guns have been the most balanced weapon in the game until you guys messed with the proficiency skill on it, now iyt is just on par with most other weapons. Shot guns never needed a damage boost from proficiency, they always did enough damage from the start.
The original proficiency skill that increased the RoF of the shotguns was so much better, it allowed me as a career scout since week one of closed beta, to be able get off the extra shot or 2 to kill a heavy before they had the chance to turn around and kill me.
If anything I think the proficiency skill for the shotgun should be switched back to increase the RoF and not the damage. If CCP had listened to the actual scouts that use shotguns they will all tell you that shotguns never needed a proficiency damage buff, they were strong enough as they were. |
CRNWLLC
Gangsta Gank
392
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Posted - 2014.08.27 17:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
It's okay, Destiny comes out in like two weeks. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
353
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former.
Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... Perhaps ammo cap should increase between basic - proto. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
4522
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The data is both popularity and efficiency, the Breach is both unpopular and has worse efficiency than all the other weapons. I think the latter explains the former. Shotguns also have the issue of the basic being just as useful as the proto... So everyone can use the cheap stuff to farm easily in pubs & keep their costs low... Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... . Which heavy can be 2HK'd by a Basic Shotgun?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
353
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Derpty Derp wrote: Seen people running basic shotguns on proto suits... they still 2 shot a heavy... .
Which heavy can be 2HK'd by a Basic Shotgun?
Headshots, which aren't exactly hard at shotgun range, even though most couldn't hit a barn door if it was right infront of them... You can also 1 shot a lot of squishier suits with it. |
bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
1042
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:P.S. I try to play one or two Domination matches every morning, after the boys go to school and before the baby wakes up, it's around 7:30-8:30 Shanghai time. So if you want to kill me, that's where you can find me, but bring your A game, you don't want to be killed by a dev
so people don't just press triangle and start kneeling before your omnipotent presence?
Eternal Beings - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
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OZAROW
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
1514
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Give medium suits jet packs and jet pack skills and a second equipment slot thats only able to be used for jet pack booster upgrades from your jetpack skill tree.
Double tap x and hold and your pack will fly depending on its type of pack you have equipped.
Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
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