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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
   |
Posted - 2014.07.13 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
All Hail Legion
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
244
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else
All Hail Legion
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Taskanoss
Royal Dominion
1
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else
It is the centered medium from which all other classes branch out from. |
Clone D
510
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else
Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles.
For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult?
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult?
your missing the point. every class comes as combat with a role. assault comes as combat only and is required to gimp its killing role to become anything else. every other class comes with a role so is not required to gimp its killing role in order to fill its other role.
so for an assault to become anything more than a killer it has to become a lot less of a killer. but this is not the case with other suits with a specific role. this is why every other class can easily become an assault beating fit and still fill their main role while the assault can't become much more than an assault
All Hail Legion
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Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
52
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Assaults are mainly for pushing the line of suppression in open combat. They are the best at that.
Breach Assault Rifle specialist
Behold my hip-fire accuracy!
[SDS CEO]
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Clone D
511
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 12:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc.
again missing the point. you are talking about changing the fittings to make a role. not like logistics for instance which is a killer with a role. taking fittings out of your role to make it a better killer affords every other suit better customisation options. there is a big difference. an assault can never be better at assaulting or remain an assault while filling a role. a logi can always be better at assaulting or being a logi or being both. this is the issue. without a defining role which would allow tweaking in either direction then the assault will never be the go to suit for killing
All Hail Legion
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Lea Silencio
0uter.Heaven
1591
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Posted - 2014.07.13 12:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult? your missing the point. every class comes as combat with a role. assault comes as combat only and is required to gimp its killing role to become anything else. every other class comes with a role so is not required to gimp its killing role in order to fill its other role. so for an assault to become anything more than a killer it has to become a lot less of a killer. but this is not the case with other suits with a specific role. this is why every other class can easily become an assault beating fit and still fill their main role while the assault can't become much more than an assault
Do you know how broken and utterly wrong you sound? The only variable piece that adds "killer" potential is the inclusion of damage mods. Nothing more. Add to the fact that they are a high slot and eliminating them and replacing them with, say, a shield extender only adds more eHP. Even that still keeps it in this "killer" role, as you lovingly refer to it as.
Furthermore, the suit and how you fit it do NOT make you an instant slayer. They only lend to added diversity/survivability. A player's individual skill makes him a "killer", not his proto suit with mods. I guarantee you that a militia-only geared Sgt Kirk would utterly DESTROY a fully proto'd out FWA rookie, both 1v1 and on the leaderboards.
The saying " the man makes the suit; the suit does not make the man" applies here. Assaults have a primary role and it is to...get ready for it....ASSAULT. As mentioned above, you can make it what you want to. You just have to be creative.
We only need one role and that is to kill sh!t. Simple as that.
PurificationGäó
It's what I do.
Amarr Victor
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 12:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lea Silencio wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult? your missing the point. every class comes as combat with a role. assault comes as combat only and is required to gimp its killing role to become anything else. every other class comes with a role so is not required to gimp its killing role in order to fill its other role. so for an assault to become anything more than a killer it has to become a lot less of a killer. but this is not the case with other suits with a specific role. this is why every other class can easily become an assault beating fit and still fill their main role while the assault can't become much more than an assault Do you know how broken and utterly wrong you sound? The only variable piece that adds "killer" potential is the inclusion of damage mods. Nothing more. Add to the fact that they are a high slot and eliminating them and replacing them with, say, a shield extender only adds more eHP. Even that still keeps it in this "killer" role, as you lovingly refer to it as. Furthermore, the suit and how you fit it do NOT make you an instant slayer. They only lend to added diversity/survivability. A player's individual skill makes him a "killer", not his proto suit with mods. I guarantee you that a militia-only geared Sgt Kirk would utterly DESTROY a fully proto'd out FWA rookie, both 1v1 and on the leaderboards. The saying " the man makes the suit; the suit does not make the man" applies here. Assaults have a primary role and it is to...get ready for it....ASSAULT. As mentioned above, you can make it what you want to. You just have to be creative. We only need one role and that is to kill sh!t. Simple as that.
i can assault in a heavy suit, i can assault in a logi suit, i can assault in a scout suit. assault is the act not the role. being a killer is not a role if everyone does it. the purpose of the game is to kill and the role you play helps you get where you are going. if a suit is only designed to kill in a game with massive customisation options like dust then every other suit with a role will always outperform it no matter what buffs/nerfs you do to the game.
All Hail Legion
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
245
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Posted - 2014.07.13 13:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
What you mean is, assaults has less of an attractive role compared to others. What exactly qre you expecting from a footsoldier/infantryman? |
Clone D
511
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Posted - 2014.07.13 13:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, I don't know what your problem is. There are situations where I specifically want an assault suit, and I don't whip out my light frames to get the job done.
Do you have a proposition for your conundrum or are you just claiming that there is only one role for assaults?
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Racro 01 Arifistan
501st Knights of Leanbox
388
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Posted - 2014.07.13 13:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
yeah so who has the easiest time shooting scouts? the gallente assault of course.
Elite Gallenten Soldier
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Brotherband
REMNANT ENFORCERS
17
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Posted - 2014.07.13 13:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
The assault suit is meant to be an all round suit, a jack of all trades if you will. The suit has does not appear to have a role because it is a half ***ed version of everything. It scan radius is better than the heavy suits but worse than the light's, It's health is worse than the heavies but better than better than the light suits, they can use equipment but not as much as the scout or logi, and on top of all this it tries to deal large amounts of damage with light weapons like the commando but falls short of that as well.
Keep in mind this is just my opinion and I have not put any real dedication into the numbers. I just looked at the suits layout and wrote this post based on that.
Am I the only one who still uses the ion pistol
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
2108
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Posted - 2014.07.13 14:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
All assault suits need an actual "I am special" bonus...
Scouts have a cloaked and ewar bonus on all roles, and are fast.
Sents just won't die and carry huge weapons, and are slow.
Commandos carry versatile mix of weapons and deal a lot of damage.
Logies carry craploads of equip and support bonuses (My corpmates still make bank SP and WP with them, "nerfs" be damned).
Assaults, uh.... Are... Slightly faster and substantially shittier commandos... Whoopidy friggen do...
Assaults need a niche, more then any mere bonus, they need an honest-to-god nitch. They need a nitch that is NOT one of the following:
- Heavy Weapons
- DPS
- Equipment Spam
- Speed
- Durability
- EWAR
My suggestion is to give all assaults bonuses to 1.) Max Ammunition (Not clip size) for racial weapons AND range bonus and 2.) Massive increase to racial regen preference (So armor tanks have a very high repper rate and shield tanks have a very high shield regen).
This would allow Assaults to stay on the field the longest, have the shortest downtime, and have the longest threat range of any role. This means they would NOT step on the toes of any other role and yet be unique enough that they won't be garbage.
But what do I know... I'm 12.
^
My usual copy-and-paste for this discussion...
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Cody Sietz
SVER True Blood
Dark Taboo
3567
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Posted - 2014.07.13 14:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult?
Can you add a plate to a scout and get roughly the same ehp as a assault but also have passive scan abilities?, a smaller hitbox, tons of CPU/PG and a extra equipment slot?
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Yeeeuuuupppp
uptown456
Dark Taboo
452
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 14:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you're good you can make an assault suit work.
Rage Proficiency V
Mic status: Muted
Storage Wars Champion.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 14:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:If you're good you can make an assault suit work.
is "making it work" good enough for a game that boasts about customisation. every class can pretty much do everyone elses roles but when it comes to assaults they can only do a half assed attempt at doing anything else. giving then a specific role which they can choose to ignore if they want would only make them a stronger class then making it work wouldn't be required as it would just work like all the other classes do
All Hail Legion
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knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1101
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
the commandos were never supposed to be here, CCP added them in just because and they act as a "heavy-assault" and are a bit better than assaults in some situations. getting rid of the commando's could solve A problem.
NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle
Vherokior assassin
I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5639
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role.
Area-Denial is a role involving killing
Shock is a role involving killing
Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at:
The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty.
Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger.
CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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DontChimpOut
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield. |
knight guard fury
Carbon 7
Iron Oxide.
1101
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
also i almost always use my minmatar assaults. they are mostly used for killing and not much else. you cant really complain about the assault having one role if that's whats they are best at, killing, and also assaulting places, but the 2nd or 3rd most used suit i see are assault so i don't think you should be complaining.
NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle
Vherokior assassin
I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
115
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 15:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
Ya dude its to assault. Move forward, kill, and capture. How do you not know that? The problem with assaults is simply scouts. With similar ehp but much greater ewar. The scout can be invisible to the assault, get in the best position available and then simply ambush the assault. Getting the first shots off before the assault is even aware he exists. I know I have all 3 of them that matter, and the 2 scouts that matter and that is the problem.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1563
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield.
what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random.
All Hail Legion
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
899
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:also i almost always use my minmatar assaults. they are mostly used for killing and not much else. you cant really complain about the assault having one role if that's whats they are best at, killing, and also assaulting places, but the 2nd or 3rd most used suit i see are assault so i don't think you should be complaining.
Rattati or however it's spelled ( I apologize to the man himself for butchering his name , no disrespect ) said that there are more logistics than assaults so that would be the forth suit behind heavies and scouts .
I can totally understand what players like Adam and others are saying but my thoughts are that if they were to actually give the actual assaulting role to the assaults , that would make them OP and all other roles would complain that assault suits are more powerful than heavies , more adaptive than scouts , dish out power better than a commando and does not have a need for a logi because nothing can stand before it from being cut down .
Still I can't help but to agree with Adam and the whole lot because it is kind of true in a sense .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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DontChimpOut
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield. what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random.
I know about your posting history. Why don't you tell the forums what you really mean. |
aaaasdff ertgfdd
117
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:knight guard fury wrote:also i almost always use my minmatar assaults. they are mostly used for killing and not much else. you cant really complain about the assault having one role if that's whats they are best at, killing, and also assaulting places, but the 2nd or 3rd most used suit i see are assault so i don't think you should be complaining. Rattati or however it's spelled ( I apologize to the man himself for butchering his name , no disrespect ) said that there are more logistics than assaults so that would be the forth suit behind heavies and scouts . I can totally understand what players like Adam and others are saying but my thoughts are that if they were to actually give the actual assaulting role to the assaults , that would make them OP and all other roles would complain that assault suits are more powerful than heavies , more adaptive than scouts , dish out power better than a commando and does not have a need for a logi because nothing can stand before it from being cut down . Still I can't help but to agree with Adam and the whole lot because it is kind of true in a sense .
All the would be assaults run scouts. In many ways scouts are just more fun.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
900
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
This is still the Dust 514 forum where players just don't get enough about complaining about what kills them .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
118
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles.
Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1564
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield. what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random. I know about your posting history. Why don't you tell the forums what you really mean.
you take my words out of context to make yourself look smart. you are not. what do i mean. you seem to know it all
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1564
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing.
so logi is an assault suit, scout is an assault suit, heavy is an assault suit. once again assaulting is an act not a role. you go through the act of assaulting a position. if you are healing while players are assaulting you are assaulting but filling the role of the medic
All Hail Legion
|
Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5640
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 16:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing.
I believe you're thinking "Shock", which, as I said, sentinels are better at.
In early closed beta, heavies were actually labeled as shocktroops, rather than assaults.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
General Tso's Alliance
2207
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 16:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
Assault's need to fill the "Light Assault" Function on the battlefield. not the Cal and Gallente Scout.... The Ability to be a fast moving, High damage suit with a little more health then a scout. Something with a more effective indirect damage bonus.. like RoF or something more Racial specific to the class. Basically sacrificing the ability to be "Tanky" for damage and mobility, and eliminating the need for scouts to fit and try and half fill this role.
Where Commandos Fulfill the "Heavy Assault" Role on the battlefield. Having a Straight damage bonus and the ability to be "Tanky" but at the sacrifice of mobility.. They still have an equipment slot alowing them to setup on outside perimeters and be the masters of toe to toe at medium range gun fights.
I think both classes have to be tweaked together or the balance will be off. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Cornballs Get Stonewalled
900
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 16:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield. what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random. I know about your posting history. Why don't you tell the forums what you really mean. you take my words out of context to make yourself look smart. you are not. what do i mean. you seem to know it all
Hey guys , we all have said some silly things in this forum and have been misunderstood because of the inability to convey our points but there must come a time where we realize our faults and try to do something to make things better and this is that time and place .
We will come together as a community and help fix the problems that are in game .
I won't be playing legion but I care about Dust so I'm all in for it being fixed .
I for one , am tired of the upsetting factors and unbalance in game .
You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
|
aaaasdff ertgfdd
121
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 16:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing. I believe you're thinking "Shock", which, as I said, sentinels are better at. In early closed beta, heavies were actually labeled as shocktroops, rather than assaults. No im thinking of exactly what I typed. Assaults would fill their role just fine if scouts didnt have the same hp but with a huge advantage on e war enabling first shot which is 50% of any fight. Sentinels respond well to scouts because their ehp and dps are high enough to turn on the scout and kill it even though it got the first shot. By the time the assault turns around hes dead, and im not saying shotguns. I run only rifles, and on my scout suits I always get the first shot on the assault and he dies.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1565
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 16:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
i dont understand why people are arguing with me. im not asking for a nerf or anything. if anything i'm asking for a role to buff them without nerfing every other class.
why is a logi able to outshine an assault. its because it has more slots. why is the scout able to outshine an assault. its because they have similar ehp and better suited passive stats and the ability to choose to fit equipment or not.
for me simply nerfing stats, losing fitting slots or changing skills isn't going to fix nothing. it hasn't fixed anything in years. it just starts the circle of broken things over again.
for me you are a soldier first then the role you fill. your training in real life as a soldier works at the basic level under that philosophy. if dust had that behind all its balancing then it would be a lot more balanced than it is now.
all the balancing factors have been about who should be doing all the killing yet we are all soldiers in the game. we should all be doing the killing. get that right first then give everyone a role on the battlefield, av/medic/heavy weapons etc. that way if you choose to ignore your role you can but so can anyone else and no one is at a huge disadvantage
All Hail Legion
|
TechMechMeds
Inner.Hell
3861
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 17:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
I think a regen mod bonus would be good.
Efficacy for regulators,enetgizers and armour repair mods etc.
It's not a role as such but assaults are pretty basic. Weapon attachments would be cool.
Be vigilant!, for there are those that remove the teabag BEFORE adding milk!.
This is unacceptable!.
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Jimmy Slapnuts
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 17:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:i dont understand why people are arguing with me.
Because you typed words on the internet. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5640
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing. I believe you're thinking "Shock", which, as I said, sentinels are better at. In early closed beta, heavies were actually labeled as shocktroops, rather than assaults. No im thinking of exactly what I typed. Assaults would fill their role just fine if scouts didnt have the same hp but with a huge advantage on e war enabling first shot which is 50% of any fight. Sentinels respond well to scouts because their ehp and dps are high enough to turn on the scout and kill it even though it got the first shot. By the time the assault turns around hes dead, and im not saying shotguns. I run only rifles, and on my scout suits I always get the first shot on the assault and he dies.
You still aren't explaining what this made-up "assaulter" role is
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
128
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:08:00 -
[41] - Quote
Its the role where you move from point to point and shoot people along the way, then shoot more once you get there, then shoot some more after you leave.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
aaaasdff ertgfdd
128
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles.
In this game the roles are clearly defined,, ready? Scout, logi, assault, sentinel, commando.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
Clone D
512
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Look at combat roles in the armed forces:
Infantry shoots
Combat medic shoots and administers medical treatments
Combat engineer shoots and deploys/removes obstacles
Artillery shoots and shoots bigger stuff
Every combat MOS is trained to shoot, etc.
There is nothing wrong with assault having one function. Assault in Dust is analogous to infantry in the armed forces. It is okay. This organizational unit belongs just as it is.
.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3245
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
The assault role is to advance objectives and to slay. You can kill with any suit but that's up to the player. The assault class is more of a mindset than anything else.
Just breakdown the suits and classes in the game. Heavy suits and assault suits are supposed to slay. The difference is that heavy suits tank ehp so they're supposed to be the grind in cqc situations and defending objectives. You would put your heavies in front and have them clear the way. The heavy suit and assault suit (class) essentially, provides the same role.
Logi or support is just that. Supporting your team by supplying ammo, keeping them alive with reps and needles, etc.
Scout role is supposed to be recon. Clearing away enemy equipment, getting behind enemy lines, hacking objectives, scan, etc.
In dust....people use whatever suit they feel will be best that compliments their playstyle and will allow them to perform their roles optimally. Scouts aren't supposed to be slayers but mechanics allow for that. Logis weren't supposed to but the mechanics allow for that. You can play a logi role with a scout suit or an assault suit if you wish.
assault role is to slay...period. in this game, the assault suit is the only suit (besides the heavy) that is one-dimensional. That's why people don't use it as much...
> Check RND out here
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
128
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Look at combat roles in the armed forces: Infantry shoots Combat medic shoots and administers medical treatments Combat engineer shoots and deploys/removes obstacles Artillery shoots and shoots bigger stuff Every combat MOS is trained to shoot, etc. There is nothing wrong with assault having one function. Assault in Dust is analogous to infantry in the armed forces. It is okay. This organizational unit belongs just as it is.
I agree, the role for assault is defined in the name. They move and kill. The scout wouldnt do this because presumably assaults would be better, that just isn't the case at the moment. Sentinels wouldnt do it because they are immobile. Assaults, scouts and commandos moving from point to point with a support logi, attacking defended positions against medic logis and sentinels, and scouts. Something like that. To me assaults are the guys, but not the only guys to keep moving. Commandos because of their av ability as you move around, scouts to clear the fog of war before you ASSAULT the position being defended, and logis to resupply and pick us up.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1567
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Look at combat roles in the armed forces: Infantry shoots Combat medic shoots and administers medical treatments Combat engineer shoots and deploys/removes obstacles Artillery shoots and shoots bigger stuff Every combat MOS is trained to shoot, etc. There is nothing wrong with assault having one function. Assault in Dust is analogous to infantry in the armed forces. It is okay. This organizational unit belongs just as it is.
you couldn't be more wrong. infantry just like mercenary is the job not the role
infantry squad would consist of many infantry soldiers all filling roles to make an effective fighting force
on the ground : medic/radio operator/mortar man/AV/commander/gunner/sniper/ pioneer etc etc the list goes on
in a vehicle : driver/gunner/loader/commander/radio operator, etc etc depending on the vehicle
1 thing for sure is they are all soldiers, all trained exactly the same to kill the same enemy. i was trained no different in the art of killing people in real life than any other infantry man like
the medics
the drivers,
the mortar men,
the Anti tank guys,
the radio operators,
the drivers,
the pioneers,
the gunners,
the snipers
etc etc
and thats just the infantry
the tankers, nurses, doctors, the military police, the chefs, the clerks, the engineers etc etc. none are infantry but all trained the same way regardless.
if you are a soldier you are a killer first. your training is no different. anything after that is to fulfill your role
All Hail Legion
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5642
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. In this game the roles are clearly defined,, ready? Scout, logi, assault, sentinel, commando.
So, you're saying that a commando with a sniper rifle and a swarm launcher has the exact same role as a commando with a combat rifle and mass driver
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5642
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc.
-Suppression: that would be area-denial, which commandos and sentinels are better ar
-"Battlefront line-holder?": Again, essentially area-denial. Assaults can do a decent job alone, but that's completely negated with a single logi, allowing heavy frames to do this better as well
-Infiltration- Ever hear of a scout? They're way better at this
-AV- just another form of area denial, which heavy frames are better at again
-Heavy assassination- Scouts, or RE logis.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. In this game the roles are clearly defined,, ready? Scout, logi, assault, sentinel, commando. So, you're saying that a commando with a sniper rifle and a swarm launcher has the exact same role as a commando with a combat rifle and mass driver
So you are saying that a logi with a drop uplink, scanner, and a triage hive; has the exact same role as a logi with a needle, rep tool, and ammo? Yes thats exactly what I am saying.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
aaaasdff ertgfdd
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc. -Suppression: that would be area-denial, which commandos and sentinels are better ar -"Battlefront line-holder?": Again, essentially area-denial. Assaults can do a decent job alone, but that's completely negated with a single logi, allowing heavy frames to do this better as well -Infiltration- Ever hear of a scout? They're way better at this -AV- just another form of area denial, which heavy frames are better at again -Heavy assassination- Scouts, or RE logis.
You all are makimg up these roles. Those are not the roles of this game. They are again, scout, sentinel, commando, logi, and assault.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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Brotherband
REMNANT ENFORCERS
17
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc. -Suppression: that would be area-denial, which commandos and sentinels are better ar -"Battlefront line-holder?": Again, essentially area-denial. Assaults can do a decent job alone, but that's completely negated with a single logi, allowing heavy frames to do this better as well -Infiltration- Ever hear of a scout? They're way better at this -AV- just another form of area denial, which heavy frames are better at again -Heavy assassination- Scouts, or RE logis. You all are makimg up these roles. Those are not the roles of this game. They are again, scout, sentinel, commando, logi, and assault.
They are talking about the play styles that you can do with the roles in the game.
Am I the only one who still uses the ion pistol
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Clone D
512
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:-Suppression: that would be area-denial, which commandos and sentinels are better ar
-"Battlefront line-holder?": Again, essentially area-denial. Assaults can do a decent job alone, but that's completely negated with a single logi, allowing heavy frames to do this better as well
-Infiltration- Ever hear of a scout? They're way better at this
-AV- just another form of area denial, which heavy frames are better at again
-Heavy assassination- Scouts, or RE logis.
That isn't to say that assaults can't perform those roles well 
Economics teaches us that even contributors who are not the best producers are not worthless altogether.
.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1567
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 18:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do
All Hail Legion
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
132
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Posted - 2014.07.13 19:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do
We keep saying, you keep not listening.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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Clone D
513
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 19:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do
To play as female so we can at least see some T&A while we're taking heat.
.
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
132
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 19:01:00 -
[56] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do To play as female so we can at least see some T&A while we're taking heat.
Lolz
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1572
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 19:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do We keep saying, you keep not listening.
as i expected. you dont know.
All Hail Legion
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Clone D
513
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 19:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do We keep saying, you keep not listening. as i expected. you dont know.
The true role of the assault suit is to act as a decoy while scouts run behind enemy lines and get some real work done.
.
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Brotherband
REMNANT ENFORCERS
18
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Posted - 2014.07.13 19:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do We keep saying, you keep not listening. as i expected. you dont know. The true role of the assault suit is to act as a decoy while scouts run behind enemy lines and get some real work done.
It's cannon fodder used by the indecisive.
Am I the only one who still uses the ion pistol
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5645
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Posted - 2014.07.13 19:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. In this game the roles are clearly defined,, ready? Scout, logi, assault, sentinel, commando. So, you're saying that a commando with a sniper rifle and a swarm launcher has the exact same role as a commando with a combat rifle and mass driver So you are saying that a logi with a drop uplink, scanner, and a triage hive; has the exact same role as a logi with a needle, rep tool, and ammo? Yes thats exactly what I am saying.
They actually don't have the same role: one is indirect support, and the other is direct support. So you just got nowhere.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
400
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Posted - 2014.07.13 19:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
I completely agree that the Assault suit is lacking a solid role. I would say it feels very overshadowed by the other suits. Some people have said it's good at "assaulting", which is apparently moving from point to point and shooting things on the way. But as has been said, that's what everyone does; that's just called playing the game. Some suggest its role is pure slaying, but I don't really see anything that makes an Assault suit a better than slayer than any other suit, including Logis. But the larger point is that saying the Assault suit is "supposed" to have any specific role you come up with is kinda silly. I don't recall CCP ever actually spelling out what it's role is meant to be.
So we can come up with ideas about what its role might be, or think of possible roles that it could be altered to better fill, but should probably be wary of assuming we know exactly what CCP's current plan is for the suit. Anyway, on that note, here's my idea on what to do with Assault suits. Personally, I'd like to see them fulfill the role of the flexible shock-trooper. Able to adapt to several different situations and be prepared for anything, as well as being able to get around quickly and use the environment to their advantage, always able to dictate the terms of their engagements.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Assault gk'0
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.07.13 20:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
i broke the rules? |
Vordred Knight
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
206
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Posted - 2014.07.13 20:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Assault gk'0 wrote:i broke the rules?
are you a spai
Markdown:
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
491
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 20:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
slaying is a role
front line assault is a role
assault class should be the best at both, hence a dmg increase and a ehp or regeneration buff. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3245
|
Posted - 2014.07.13 21:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do
The assault and heavy class share the same role.
> Check RND out here
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10886
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Posted - 2014.07.13 21:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
The role of an assault is to be the workhorse of the battlefield.
They are the first to respond to emerging threats, they are the ones who form a line of defense to give heavies and logis enough time to set up in the area, they are the ones who respond to a scout detecting heavy enemy movement, and they are the first to assault a compound.
Their role is clear - Be a menace, be annoying, never let the enemy have any breathing room.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Brotherband
REMNANT ENFORCERS
18
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Posted - 2014.07.13 21:58:00 -
[67] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:The role of an assault is to be the workhorse of the battlefield.
They are the first to respond to emerging threats, they are the ones who form a line of defense to give heavies and logis enough time to set up in the area, they are the ones who respond to a scout detecting heavy enemy movement, and they are the first to assault a compound.
Their role is clear - Be a menace, be annoying, never let the enemy have any breathing room.
So they're like bad co in battle field, the first to go in and the last to come out IF the come out.
Am I the only one who still uses the ion pistol
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10886
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Posted - 2014.07.13 22:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
Brotherband wrote:Cat Merc wrote:The role of an assault is to be the workhorse of the battlefield.
They are the first to respond to emerging threats, they are the ones who form a line of defense to give heavies and logis enough time to set up in the area, they are the ones who respond to a scout detecting heavy enemy movement, and they are the first to assault a compound.
Their role is clear - Be a menace, be annoying, never let the enemy have any breathing room. So they're like bad co in battle field, the first to go in and the last to come out IF the come out.
Pretty much.
Just to be clear of my opinion:
How Assaults currently are, they are not filling this role.
They don't have the staying power, the speed, the damage or regeneration to be effective at this role.
They need more HP, more speed (slightly), more damage and massively more regeneration.
That will pretty much make sure nothing else can do it's job even half as effectively.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11815
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Posted - 2014.07.13 22:10:00 -
[69] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:All assault suits need an actual "I am special" bonus... Scouts have a cloaked and ewar bonus on all roles, and are fast. Sents just won't die and carry huge weapons, and are slow. Commandos carry versatile mix of weapons and deal a lot of damage. Logies carry craploads of equip and support bonuses (My corpmates still make bank SP and WP with them, "nerfs" be damned). Assaults, uh.... Are... Slightly faster and substantially shittier commandos... Whoopidy friggen do... Assaults need a niche, more then any mere bonus, they need an honest-to-god nitch. They need a nitch that is NOT one of the following:
- Heavy Weapons
- DPS
- Equipment Spam
- Speed
- Durability
- EWAR
My suggestion is to give all assaults bonuses to 1.) Max Ammunition (Not clip size) for racial weapons AND range bonus and 2.) Massive increase to racial regen preference (So armor tanks have a very high repper rate and shield tanks have a very high shield regen). This would allow Assaults to stay on the field the longest, have the shortest downtime, and have the longest threat range of any role. This means they would NOT step on the toes of any other role and yet be unique enough that they won't be garbage.But what do I know... I'm 12.
^ My usual copy-and-paste for this discussion...
Actually I feel you are very wrong.
Commando's never should have had a DPS bonus.
That should be an Assault thing on top of their pretty decent regeneration stats.
Commando's need bonuses that reinforce their suppressive nature.
"I guess this is goodbye for now Little One. This is how you will become one of us, one of the Amarr." - Kador Ouryon
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Guiltless D667
44
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Posted - 2014.07.13 22:44:00 -
[70] - Quote
The assualt class is to dust as the light assault class without a jackpack is to PS2.
A Strange Game.
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Scheneighnay McBob
Cult of Gasai
5645
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Posted - 2014.07.13 22:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose slaying is a role front line assault is a role assault class should be the best at both, hence a dmg increase and a ehp or regeneration buff.
Neither slaying nor frontline assault are roles.
Shock is a role, and that may be what you mean by frontline assault. With Dust's map size and mechanics, heavy frames are better at this.
Slaying is waaaaaaaaaay too nonspecific to be even close to an actual role.
pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
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Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
52
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Posted - 2014.07.14 02:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
At the moment, I'd say Assaults are pretty good at staying in the enemy's face. I mostly use Gallente Assaults, and I'm usually the guy holding a lot of enemy's attention on the frontline. While I'm poking at them and hopefully not dying, it creates an opportunity for Scouts to move in from behind, Sentinels to move in from the front, and Commandos to fire from a safe distance or whatever else they want to do, and logis supporting the advance.
Basically, Assaults are the workforce, the guys getting the boulder rolling so the specialist classes have an easy opportunity to perform their role. More simply put, we're the punching bag until people move in. We start the assault, hence the name.
Sound good? Good. Let's stop arguing.
Breach Assault Rifle specialist
Behold my hip-fire accuracy!
[SDS CEO]
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
402
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Posted - 2014.07.14 06:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Sergeant Sazu wrote:At the moment, I'd say Assaults are pretty good at staying in the enemy's face. I mostly use Gallente Assaults, and I'm usually the guy holding a lot of enemy's attention on the frontline. While I'm poking at them and hopefully not dying, it creates an opportunity for Scouts to move in from behind, Sentinels to move in from the front, and Commandos to fire from a safe distance or whatever else they want to do, and logis supporting the advance.
Basically, Assaults are the workforce, the guys getting the boulder rolling so the specialist classes have an easy opportunity to perform their role. More simply put, we're the punching bag until people move in. We start the assault, hence the name.
Sound good? Good. Let's stop arguing.
That's a fine idea for a role Assaults can fulfill, but what about them actually lets them fulfill it right now? How are they any better at this than Logis, for example?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
189
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Posted - 2014.07.14 09:29:00 -
[74] - Quote
Then just get rid of assaults from dust...no?
Then wait for hotfix and talk to CPM and CCP, because they wont read all that threads in general discussions.
Btw. If you want so much then they should get higher regenerate,better speed, and bonuses for ammo/rof. Or special eq as rest roles have.
-~-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-~-My CreoDron wont miss any of you
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
844
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Posted - 2014.07.14 09:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:If you're good you can make an assault suit work. by making it work say that you have to have more skill to make a underpowered suit work. just because i can go on a rampage in my assault suit does not mean that its not high time CCP fixed the dam suit.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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aaaasdff ertgfdd
138
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Posted - 2014.07.14 10:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:At the moment, I'd say Assaults are pretty good at staying in the enemy's face. I mostly use Gallente Assaults, and I'm usually the guy holding a lot of enemy's attention on the frontline. While I'm poking at them and hopefully not dying, it creates an opportunity for Scouts to move in from behind, Sentinels to move in from the front, and Commandos to fire from a safe distance or whatever else they want to do, and logis supporting the advance.
Basically, Assaults are the workforce, the guys getting the boulder rolling so the specialist classes have an easy opportunity to perform their role. More simply put, we're the punching bag until people move in. We start the assault, hence the name.
Sound good? Good. Let's stop arguing. That's a fine idea for a role Assaults can fulfill, but what about them actually lets them fulfill it right now? How are they any better at this than Logis, for example?
Im not saying soke tweaks are not needed, particularly to our e war, our awareness on the field is dismal imo, but their are good suits with good bonuses, like the mini assault, that clip size is sweet.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/
Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/
Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1581
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:44:00 -
[77] - Quote
a lot of you seem to be ignoring the fact that every class who approaches and shoots at the enemy is assaulting them
assault "To make a short, violent, but well-ordered attack against a local objective, such as a gun emplacement, a fort, or a machine gun nest." this includes people. you go through the act of assaulting
now a role in that assault would be a LAW man in the squad to take on vehicle threats, a medic incase someone was injured, a HMG gunner to lay down suppressing fire, a commander giving orders,a radio man liaising with command and support assets, a pioneer with breach charges etc
they all assault the position. they all for the most part use the same weapons and carry the same gear. they all have the same training then finally they all have their own particular role to fulfill when required.
dust has this big problem where everything is balanced on the roles people play and not the fact they are soldiers/killers first. this makes some classes either OP or extremely customisable to the point they outshine others.
ask yourself why other classes can for the most part outshine the assault and answer would likely be customisation. every class has the role to use or ignore but the assault is just the assault. it has nothing extra to play with. for a lot of you the answer is to decrease that customisation on other classes and buff ehp and dps on the assaults but that now leaves those who do fit their roles worse off as they have less of everything to play with while their counter gets a buff and the slayers see little change. i think its wrong to break other classes to make 1 class work. the problem isn't dps and ehp its customisation through roles and the lack of role with the assault not giving them that option
if the assault had a role and slots to go with it they could choose to fit full killer and compete with other suits that do that while leaving those that fit their role still able to compete and not get nerfed all the time
All Hail Legion
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Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
54
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Posted - 2014.07.15 01:50:00 -
[78] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Sergeant Sazu wrote:At the moment, I'd say Assaults are pretty good at staying in the enemy's face. I mostly use Gallente Assaults, and I'm usually the guy holding a lot of enemy's attention on the frontline. While I'm poking at them and hopefully not dying, it creates an opportunity for Scouts to move in from behind, Sentinels to move in from the front, and Commandos to fire from a safe distance or whatever else they want to do, and logis supporting the advance.
Basically, Assaults are the workforce, the guys getting the boulder rolling so the specialist classes have an easy opportunity to perform their role. More simply put, we're the punching bag until people move in. We start the assault, hence the name.
Sound good? Good. Let's stop arguing. That's a fine idea for a role Assaults can fulfill, but what about them actually lets them fulfill it right now? How are they any better at this than Logis, for example?
What do Assaults have over Logis?
-Movement speed
-Base HP
-Shield Recharge
-Sidearm
-Weapon bonuses
What do Logis have over Assaults?
-Equipment count
-More PG/CPU
-Equipment bonuses
-More module slots at Proto
-Better scan precision
If a Logi and an Assault were both fitted for killing and surviving to kill more, I would choose the Assault. It's simply more geared toward extended fighting than the Logi. I think they did well in the fix to Logis. now they are better for support. And Assaults are better for approaching and killing, and being ready for new situations quickly.
Breach Assault Rifle specialist
Behold my hip-fire accuracy!
[SDS CEO]
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
295
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Posted - 2014.07.15 02:04:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:The assault role is to advance objectives and to slay. You can kill with any suit but that's up to the player. The assault class is more of a mindset than anything else.
Just breakdown the suits and classes in the game. Heavy suits and assault suits are supposed to slay. The difference is that heavy suits tank ehp so they're supposed to be the grind in cqc situations and defending objectives. You would put your heavies in front and have them clear the way. The heavy suit and assault suit (class) essentially, provides the same role.
Logi or support is just that. Supporting your team by supplying ammo, keeping them alive with reps and needles, etc.
Scout role is supposed to be recon. Clearing away enemy equipment, getting behind enemy lines, hacking objectives, scan, etc.
In dust....people use whatever suit they feel will be best that compliments their playstyle and will allow them to perform their roles optimally. Scouts aren't supposed to be slayers but mechanics allow for that. Logis weren't supposed to but the mechanics allow for that. You can play a logi role with a scout suit or an assault suit if you wish.
assault role is to slay...period. in this game, the assault suit is the only suit (besides the heavy) that is one-dimensional. That's why people don't use it as much...
An honest assessment post overlooked by the boys who all want to be right.
An assaults role is to slay. Everything else people are talking about doesn't make sense. Assaults have a role. It's just not as attractive as the other ones.
People want incentives to do things in Dust, which is absurd as well. I regularly play assaults and I know my role in any game mode. That is to kill.
What other roles can assault play besides that? Anything else and it becomes another class. |
Sergeant Sazu
SINISTER DEATH SQUAD
54
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 02:06:00 -
[80] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:a lot of you seem to be ignoring the fact that every class who approaches and shoots at the enemy is assaulting them. you can call it any number of fancy names like frontline assault but it is all still the same thing and not a role
assault "To make a short, violent, but well-ordered attack against a local objective, such as a gun emplacement, a fort, or a machine gun nest." this includes people. you go through the act of assaulting
now a role in that assault would be a LAW man in the squad to take on vehicle threats, a medic incase someone was injured, a HMG gunner to lay down suppressing fire, a commander giving orders,a radio man liaising with command and support assets, a pioneer with breach charges etc
they all assault the position. they all for the most part use the same weapons and carry the same gear. they all have the same training then finally they all have their own particular role to fulfill when required.
dust has this big problem where everything is balanced on the roles people play and not the fact they are soldiers/killers first. this makes some classes either OP or extremely customisable to the point they outshine others.
ask yourself why other classes can for the most part outshine the assault and answer would likely be customisation. every class has the role to use or ignore but the assault is just the assault. it has nothing extra to play with. for a lot of you the answer is to decrease that customisation on other classes and buff ehp and dps on the assaults but that now leaves those who do fit their roles worse off as they have less of everything to play with while their counter gets a buff and the slayers see little change. i think its wrong to break other classes to make 1 class work. the problem isn't dps and ehp its customisation through roles and the lack of role with the assault not giving them that option
if the assault had a role and slots to go with it they could choose to fit full killer and compete with other suits that do that while leaving those that fit their role still able to compete and not get nerfed all the time
I'm not sure if this is a semantics argument or you wanting Assaults to have a role. Here's my 2 ISK, and I'll warn you that there is opinion ahead. :)
Yes, everyone approaches and kills, but I think Assaults are supposed to be best at that while not filling any other role. Hence the name. So the Assault's only role is be able to kill in any situation. Scouts and Sentinels are restricted in this regard, as Scouts must pick fights wisely, and HMGs are restricted to close-ish range. When I play Assault, I don't have to consider those factors with a (insert rifle here) in my hands.
No, Logis do not outshine Assaults. As observed from slayer Scouts, strafe speed is everything in this game. Assaults have higher movement speed. They also have higher shield recharge, making multiple encounters easier. And higher base HP, therefor needing fewer modules to reach a certain eHP.
Breach Assault Rifle specialist
Behold my hip-fire accuracy!
[SDS CEO]
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
302
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Posted - 2014.07.15 02:10:00 -
[81] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:a lot of you seem to be ignoring the fact that every class who approaches and shoots at the enemy is assaulting them. you can call it any number of fancy names like frontline assault but it is all still the same thing and not a role
assault "To make a short, violent, but well-ordered attack against a local objective, such as a gun emplacement, a fort, or a machine gun nest." this includes people. you go through the act of assaulting
now a role in that assault would be a LAW man in the squad to take on vehicle threats, a medic incase someone was injured, a HMG gunner to lay down suppressing fire, a commander giving orders,a radio man liaising with command and support assets, a pioneer with breach charges etc
they all assault the position. they all for the most part use the same weapons and carry the same gear. they all have the same training then finally they all have their own particular role to fulfill when required.
dust has this big problem where everything is balanced on the roles people play and not the fact they are soldiers/killers first. this makes some classes either OP or extremely customisable to the point they outshine others.
ask yourself why other classes can for the most part outshine the assault and answer would likely be customisation. every class has the role to use or ignore but the assault is just the assault. it has nothing extra to play with. for a lot of you the answer is to decrease that customisation on other classes and buff ehp and dps on the assaults but that now leaves those who do fit their roles worse off as they have less of everything to play with while their counter gets a buff and the slayers see little change. i think its wrong to break other classes to make 1 class work. the problem isn't dps and ehp its customisation through roles and the lack of role with the assault not giving them that option
if the assault had a role and slots to go with it they could choose to fit full killer and compete with other suits that do that while leaving those that fit their role still able to compete and not get nerfed all the time
Because people utilize the classes wrong that doesn't mean that is the ground upon which the suit is defined for.
Scouts shouldn't be frontline but people brick tank, shotty and cloak, going frontline in their attacks. Scouts are to create confusion and to infiltrate enemy lines, demoralizing the enemy.
The thing is, you present that Assault don't have a role but have no idea what other role it can play. You offer no other roles for it.
Assaults role is, lol, arguably even noticeable in the name itself. Assault. Scouts are to scout. Logistics is all about the logistics. A sentinel is to be sentinel.
This stuff is beyond basic. The OP is trying to make something complicated out of something simple. People just don't want to slay in Dust. They want WPs. They want to cloak and sneak up on somebody to blast. They want REs. They want to destroy with HMGs. Assaults only offer slaying with a small supply factor from the nanohives.
Assaults have a role. It's just not attractive to you guys. Or better yet, you guys want incentives to do what many are already doing with the class...slaying. |
Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
404
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Posted - 2014.07.15 04:17:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Because people utilize the classes wrong that doesn't mean that is the ground upon which the suit is defined for.
Scouts shouldn't be frontline but people brick tank, shotty and cloak, going frontline in their attacks. Scouts are to create confusion and to infiltrate enemy lines, demoralizing the enemy.
The thing is, you present that Assault don't have a role but have no idea what other role it can play. You offer no other roles for it.
Assaults role is, lol, arguably even noticeable in the name itself. Assault. Scouts are to scout. Logistics is all about the logistics. A sentinel is to be sentinel.
This stuff is beyond basic. The OP is trying to make something complicated out of something simple. People just don't want to slay in Dust. They want WPs. They want to cloak and sneak up on somebody to blast. They want REs. They want to destroy with HMGs. Assaults only offer slaying with a small supply factor from the nanohives.
Assaults have a role. It's just not attractive to you guys. Or better yet, you guys want incentives to do what many are already doing with the class...slaying.
On behalf of the OP, I think it's fair to say you missed one of his points: that simply killing enemies in of itself is not a suitable role within the context of Dust, and I would say I agree with that. But even ignoring that, if slaying is meant to be the designated role of Assault suits, what about them actually makes them any better at it than say a Logi?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1945
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:20:00 -
[83] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc.
All of which you can do much better in other suits.
Brotherband wrote:
The assault suit is meant to be an all round suit, a jack of all trades if you will. The suit has does not appear to have a role because it is a half ***ed version of everything. It scan radius is better than the heavy suits but worse than the light's, It's health is worse than the heavies but better than better than the light suits, they can use equipment but not as much as the scout or logi, and on top of all this it tries to deal large amounts of damage with light weapons like the commando but falls short of that as well.
Keep in mind this is just my opinion and I have not put any real dedication into the numbers. I just looked at the suits layout and wrote this post based on that.
Scans... 2 things:
1. They mean nothing when almost every suit ran is a scout and can see you without you seeing it.
2. Every suit you DO see on your radar is very likely to be a heavy, and if a heavy is close enough to see on your radar you are likely f****d anyway.
Health.... 2 more things:
1. The gap between the scout's brick tanked eHP and an assault's is small, but it exists. Except... even when bricked the scout can strafe about 1.5-2x faster than you and has a smaller hitbox. There are no modules to fix that.
2. Heavies are slower than you and have a larger hitbox... but they can also melt you within moments of discovering you are within the range of a GEK and each one has different damage resistances. (commandos are excluded from this)
Equipment.... just 1 thing:
1. The only suit in the game that has less slots than the assault is a non-commando heavy.
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:If you're good you can make an assault suit work.
Same could be said for the post-nerf TAR, but that didn't make it balanced.
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:All assault suits need an actual "I am special" bonus... Scouts have a cloaked and ewar bonus on all roles, and are fast. Sents just won't die and carry huge weapons, and are slow. Commandos carry versatile mix of weapons and deal a lot of damage. Logies carry craploads of equip and support bonuses (My corpmates still make bank SP and WP with them, "nerfs" be damned). Assaults, uh.... Are... Slightly faster and substantially shittier commandos... Whoopidy friggen do... Assaults need a niche, more then any mere bonus, they need an honest-to-god nitch. They need a nitch that is NOT one of the following:
- Heavy Weapons
- DPS
- Equipment Spam
- Speed
- Durability
- EWAR
My suggestion is to give all assaults bonuses to 1.) Max Ammunition (Not clip size) for racial weapons AND range bonus and 2.) Massive increase to racial regen preference (So armor tanks have a very high repper rate and shield tanks have a very high shield regen). This would allow Assaults to stay on the field the longest, have the shortest downtime, and have the longest threat range of any role. This means they would NOT step on the toes of any other role and yet be unique enough that they won't be garbage.But what do I know... I'm 12.
The 12 year old kid is showing all of you guys up..... for shame....
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
305
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 08:00:00 -
[84] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Because people utilize the classes wrong that doesn't mean that is the ground upon which the suit is defined for.
Scouts shouldn't be frontline but people brick tank, shotty and cloak, going frontline in their attacks. Scouts are to create confusion and to infiltrate enemy lines, demoralizing the enemy.
The thing is, you present that Assault don't have a role but have no idea what other role it can play. You offer no other roles for it.
Assaults role is, lol, arguably even noticeable in the name itself. Assault. Scouts are to scout. Logistics is all about the logistics. A sentinel is to be sentinel.
This stuff is beyond basic. The OP is trying to make something complicated out of something simple. People just don't want to slay in Dust. They want WPs. They want to cloak and sneak up on somebody to blast. They want REs. They want to destroy with HMGs. Assaults only offer slaying with a small supply factor from the nanohives.
Assaults have a role. It's just not attractive to you guys. Or better yet, you guys want incentives to do what many are already doing with the class...slaying. On behalf of the OP, I think it's fair to say you missed one of his points: that simply killing enemies in of itself is not a suitable role within the context of Dust, and I would say I agree with that. But even ignoring that, if slaying is meant to be the designated role of Assault suits, what about them actually makes them any better at it than say a Logi?
I didn't miss his point because I read it.
In the context of roles, Assaults are to slay. It is indeed a suitable role within Dust, just not attractive as a Logi who can kill you and get plenty WPs while supporting. Or a scout who can cloak, move fast and get behind enemy lines. Or a Sentinel who is a bullet sponge and packed with a powerful mercenary eating weapon. That's why you consider it not to be a suitable role in the context of Dust, because the allure of just slaying is not feasible to you and many others. I think you missed my post when I stated such.
No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi.
In all my years of gaming, I never once heard someone say that the role of assaults need to be clearly defined. Everyone with a brain knows what assaults are and what they are to do. If you want to do extra stuff, you didn't pick an assault class. If slaying was your thing, you go for assault.
I really don't understand how we can take something so simple, something that has been understood by gamers everywhere for years, and make things complicated by stating the assault has no role. If you want a different bonus, that's fine. Say so. But to say assaults don't have a role is just idiotic.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
405
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi.
Uh, do you um, like know how game design works? The goal is to encourage players to take certain actions with the mechanics of your game. So again, in terms of design, what about an Assault suit currently makes it any better at slaying than a Logi suit?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Mikey Ducati
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
306
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Posted - 2014.07.15 10:13:00 -
[86] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi. Uh, do you um, like know how game design works? The goal is to encourage players to take certain actions with the mechanics of your game. So again, in terms of design, what about an Assault suit currently makes it any better at slaying than a Logi suit?
Lol why am I repeating the grounds that I already covered...
Mikey Ducati wrote:What you mean is, assaults has less of an attractive role compared to others. What exactly qre you expecting from a footsoldier/infantryman?
Mikey Ducati wrote:. Assaults have a role. It's just not as attractive as the other ones.
People want incentives to do things in Dust, which is absurd as well.
What other roles can assault play besides that? Anything else and it becomes another class.
Mikey Ducati wrote:
This stuff is beyond basic. The OP is trying to make something complicated out of something simple. People just don't want to slay in Dust. They want WPs. They want to cloak and sneak up on somebody to blast. They want REs. They want to destroy with HMGs. Assaults only offer slaying with a small supply factor from the nanohives.
Assaults have a role. It's just not attractive to you guys. Or better yet, you guys want incentives to do what many are already doing with the class...slaying.
Why do you need encouragement to be a slayer? What is with the gamer population and incentives? Why do you need one to perform a necessary task?
Okay instead of arguing the point of whether assaults have a role or not, what kind of role would you offer the Assault player?
We already have a recon guy. A support guy. A point defender. What is left? What role can the assault play? Answer me that instead of arguing a useless point that assaults don't have any role on the battlefield. I'm up for a discussion and production. Not tireless back and forth stuck in one point. Let's brain storm. What other role can the assault player fill that the other classes are not specialized in? |
OZAROW
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
1457
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 10:45:00 -
[87] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
Not that I totally disagree with the post but this topic comes up so often that I get the impression most people think it should be the best class in the game when actually its what it should be, bland and point and shoot.
To me it's the suit that DEPENDS on a good squad , a good LOGI , a scout to flush out enemy's and distracts and injures for you to take kills, yet it isn't as self supporting as a LOGI or scout because of the ability to carry mass equipment or hide or have major damage of a heavy, it is simply a point and shoot class, those that become extremely good players gravitate an graduate to more self sufficient classes that allow them to create a more team played battlefield than just point and shoot.
SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
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Baal Omniscient
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1947
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Posted - 2014.07.15 12:21:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi. Uh, do you um, like know how game design works? The goal is to encourage players to take certain actions with the mechanics of your game. So again, in terms of design, what about an Assault suit currently makes it any better at slaying than a Logi suit? Lol why am I repeating the grounds that I already covered... {snipped excess quotes} Why do you need encouragement to be a slayer? What is with the gamer population and incentives? Why do you need one to perform a necessary task? Okay instead of arguing the point of whether assaults have a role or not, what kind of role would you offer the Assault player? We already have a recon guy. A support guy. A point defender. What is left? What role can the assault play? Answer me that instead of arguing a useless point that assaults don't have any role on the battlefield. I'm up for a discussion and production. Not tireless back and forth stuck in one point. Let's brain storm. What other role can the assault player fill that the other classes are not specialized in?
None of the things you quoted... actually answered how an assault is better at slaying than other classes..... just thought I'd point that out. It's role is to slay, so it should be better at it than other classes right? No WP bonuses or anything, just stat-wise. How is an assault suit better at slaying than other suits?
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Jimmy Slapnuts
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:07:00 -
[89] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi. Uh, do you um, like know how game design works? The goal is to encourage players to take certain actions with the mechanics of your game. So again, in terms of design, what about an Assault suit currently makes it any better at slaying than a Logi suit? Lol why am I repeating the grounds that I already covered... {snipped excess quotes} Why do you need encouragement to be a slayer? What is with the gamer population and incentives? Why do you need one to perform a necessary task? Okay instead of arguing the point of whether assaults have a role or not, what kind of role would you offer the Assault player? We already have a recon guy. A support guy. A point defender. What is left? What role can the assault play? Answer me that instead of arguing a useless point that assaults don't have any role on the battlefield. I'm up for a discussion and production. Not tireless back and forth stuck in one point. Let's brain storm. What other role can the assault player fill that the other classes are not specialized in? None of the things you quoted... actually answered how an assault is better at slaying than other classes..... just thought I'd point that out. It's role is to slay, so it should be better at it than other classes right? No WP bonuses or anything, just stat-wise. How is an assault suit better at slaying than other suits?
-åThis.
It's not about whether or not Assaults have a role or not, or how "attractive" that role is.
IMO, the point is that Assaults don't have a role of their own, that another suit doesn't already do BETTER. |
GUNDAM HEAVY ARMS01
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
11
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:37:00 -
[90] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:All assault suits need an actual "I am special" bonus... Scouts have a cloaked and ewar bonus on all roles, and are fast. Sents just won't die and carry huge weapons, and are slow. Commandos carry versatile mix of weapons and deal a lot of damage. Logies carry craploads of equip and support bonuses (My corpmates still make bank SP and WP with them, "nerfs" be damned). Assaults, uh.... Are... Slightly faster and substantially shittier commandos... Whoopidy friggen do... Assaults need a niche, more then any mere bonus, they need an honest-to-god nitch. They need a nitch that is NOT one of the following:
- Heavy Weapons
- DPS
- Equipment Spam
- Speed
- Durability
- EWAR
My suggestion is to give all assaults bonuses to 1.) Max Ammunition (Not clip size) for racial weapons AND range bonus and 2.) Massive increase to racial regen preference (So armor tanks have a very high repper rate and shield tanks have a very high shield regen). This would allow Assaults to stay on the field the longest, have the shortest downtime, and have the longest threat range of any role. This means they would NOT step on the toes of any other role and yet be unique enough that they won't be garbage.But what do I know... I'm 12.
The 12 year old kid is showing all of you guys up..... for shame....[/quote]
For someone who's a 12 year old, this guy has a better sense of logic and balancing than most people. This suggestion of giving assaults a range buff and racial buff as to shield and armor regen wuld be a really good idea. This wuld actually make the game balanced rather than buffing its dps. The only other thing i wuld add to this is a little increase to their speed, meaning increase in movement speed which will give the assaults capabilities of being able to strafe a bit faster than sentinels and a bit slower than scouts. Giving them actual roles and bonuses that wuld allow them to be able to "assault" enemies. This wuld be awesome if noted for hotflix charlie on "buffing/fixing" the assault suits and roles other than better slots especially for minmatar assault lol.
Minmatar scouts arent as bad as people say it is. It just takes skill and patience to use so stop complaining and learn
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1590
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 15:58:00 -
[91] - Quote
what makes a slayer and tell me why only the assault class is the slayer. after all a lot of you keep saying the assault role is to slay.
slaying to me is just plain old killing people.
now tell me which other class does not kill.
no one is saying they shouldn't be good killers or better than any other class at doing it. what i am suggesting is that any simple buffs to "slaying" isn't enough. ask yourself why do other classes have this excellent ability to adapt to the battlefield while the assault cannot. its that customisation their role allows them. for a logi its to not fit good equipment freeing up pq/cpu more than compensating for any dps/ehp buff an assault gets. the same goes for scouts who lose the cloak or 2nd piece of equipment. a heavy can lose the heavy weapon. what can the assault lose to increase its performance.
the problem is if you ignore your role as any other class you can become a better killer but the assault cannot become a better killer because it is already one.
even if they were given the role of "combat specialist" (RE,AV,Scans) for example with slots and stats to put them in that role they would have the free pg/cpu should they choose to ignore it to compensate for any other classes ability to out stat them.
this would easily balance them out with the likes of logis and scouts. fill your role and you are the average soldier on the field, ignore it and you are a killer. this would allow assaults the same choices every other class is afforded. fit for role or fit to kill.
Ok so you don't like the idea of assaults having a role. don't fit for it then. fit those better plates and damage mods. insisting on buffed stats to make up for the lack of customisation is just a bad idea. it has been done time and time again virtually every patch and we still have the same issues every time. while every other role has the ability to adapt the assault doesnt
All Hail Legion
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
407
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:07:00 -
[92] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:No class is better than the other. It is how the player utilizes the role is what makes it good. Why are you comparing it to Logi? Assaults don't have to piggyback a Sentinel and isn't frowned upon if the assault player is killing. Because that's what you expect from a assault. Hence why we had so many discussions and changes to Logi (the infamous slaylogi) because the community felt that wasn't the role of a Logi. Uh, do you um, like know how game design works? The goal is to encourage players to take certain actions with the mechanics of your game. So again, in terms of design, what about an Assault suit currently makes it any better at slaying than a Logi suit? Why do you need encouragement to be a slayer? What is with the gamer population and incentives? Why do you need one to perform a necessary task?
So no, then.
Mikey Ducati wrote:Okay instead of arguing the point of whether assaults have a role or not, what kind of role would you offer the Assault player?
We already have a recon guy. A support guy. A point defender. What is left? What role can the assault play? Answer me that instead of arguing a useless point that assaults don't have any role on the battlefield. I'm up for a discussion and production. Not tireless back and forth stuck in one point. Let's brain storm. What other role can the assault player fill that the other classes are not specialized in?
As I've said, I'd like to see the Assault be the most flexible and versatile suit, able to quickly adapt to changing situations, and never get caught off guard. A mobile shock-trooper style suit that can use it's environment to its advantage and is always able to dictate when and where its engagements occur. Here's the idea in more detail.
OZAROW wrote:Not that I totally disagree with the post but this topic comes up so often that I get the impression most people think it should be the best class in the game when actually its what it should be, bland and point and shoot.
To me it's the suit that DEPENDS on a good squad , a good LOGI , a scout to flush out enemy's and distracts and injures for you to take kills, yet it isn't as self supporting as a LOGI or scout because of the ability to carry mass equipment or hide or have major damage of a heavy, it is simply a point and shoot class, those that become extremely good players gravitate an graduate to more self sufficient classes that allow them to create a more team played battlefield than just point and shoot.
Well I would pretty much call that a problem anyway. If a suit specifically feels bland when compared to others, and players naturally move away from using it as their skill increases, then why even bother having it as an alleged specialist suit? Couldn't the basic frames handle that job? There's not much point adding an option to a game if it's ostensibly inferior to every other available option; every suit should have it's niche to fill.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Michael Arck
4861
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:21:00 -
[93] - Quote
...because people dont play the class?
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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Michael Arck
4861
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:what makes a slayer and tell me why only the assault class is the slayer. after all a lot of you keep saying the assault role is to slay.
slaying to me is just plain old killing people.
now tell me which other class does not kill.
no one is saying they shouldn't be good killers or better than any other class at doing it. what i am suggesting is that any simple buffs to "slaying" isn't enough. ask yourself why do other classes have this excellent ability to adapt to the battlefield while the assault cannot. its that customisation their role allows them. for a logi its to not fit good equipment freeing up pq/cpu more than compensating for any dps/ehp buff an assault gets. the same goes for scouts who lose the cloak or 2nd piece of equipment. a heavy can lose the heavy weapon. what can the assault lose to increase its performance.
the problem is if you ignore your role as any other class you can become a better killer but the assault cannot become a better killer because it is already one.
even if they were given the role of "combat specialist" (RE,AV,Scans) for example with slots and stats to put them in that role they would have the free pg/cpu should they choose to ignore it to compensate for any other classes ability to out stat them.
this would easily balance them out with the likes of logis and scouts. fill your role and you are the average soldier on the field, ignore it and you are a killer. this would allow assaults the same choices every other class is afforded. fit for role or fit to kill.
Ok so you don't like the idea of assaults having a role. don't fit for it then. fit those better plates and damage mods. insisting on buffed stats to make up for the lack of customisation is just a bad idea. it has been done time and time again virtually every patch and we still have the same issues every time. while every other role has the ability to adapt the assault doesnt
Wow you are a slow individual. Like I asked that Summ Dude person, just how long you've been playing FPS games? The assault class in EVERY FPS title has been about slaying and/or suppression. The assault is the average soldier. Combat specialist is equal to assault. Smh
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1592
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 21:59:00 -
[95] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:what makes a slayer and tell me why only the assault class is the slayer. after all a lot of you keep saying the assault role is to slay.
slaying to me is just plain old killing people.
now tell me which other class does not kill.
no one is saying they shouldn't be good killers or better than any other class at doing it. what i am suggesting is that any simple buffs to "slaying" isn't enough. ask yourself why do other classes have this excellent ability to adapt to the battlefield while the assault cannot. its that customisation their role allows them. for a logi its to not fit good equipment freeing up pq/cpu more than compensating for any dps/ehp buff an assault gets. the same goes for scouts who lose the cloak or 2nd piece of equipment. a heavy can lose the heavy weapon. what can the assault lose to increase its performance.
the problem is if you ignore your role as any other class you can become a better killer but the assault cannot become a better killer because it is already one.
even if they were given the role of "combat specialist" (RE,AV,Scans) for example with slots and stats to put them in that role they would have the free pg/cpu should they choose to ignore it to compensate for any other classes ability to out stat them.
this would easily balance them out with the likes of logis and scouts. fill your role and you are the average soldier on the field, ignore it and you are a killer. this would allow assaults the same choices every other class is afforded. fit for role or fit to kill.
Ok so you don't like the idea of assaults having a role. don't fit for it then. fit those better plates and damage mods. insisting on buffed stats to make up for the lack of customisation is just a bad idea. it has been done time and time again virtually every patch and we still have the same issues every time. while every other role has the ability to adapt the assault doesnt Wow you are a slow individual. Like I asked that Summ Dude person, just how long you've been playing FPS games? The assault class in EVERY FPS title has been about slaying and/or suppression. The assault is the average soldier. Combat specialist is equal to assault. Smh
what you fail to see is this is not your standard FPS. every game i have ever played the role you play has always been secondary to killing and balanced accordingly. in dust killing is secondary to your role. this is why assaults will never be balanced with the other classes because the secondary roles of the other classes afford them more power and more flexibility.
i dont know why your getting so worked up over this. so what you don't want anything else out of assault. stay in your stagnant suit, stay killer and only fit ehp and dps stuff like the logis currently do thats fine. i on the other hand do want more out of the suit. people can complain all they want about other classes being over used but when they have 99% of the job to do and more flexibility to do it what do you expect.
All Hail Legion
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Michael Arck
4866
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1592
|
Posted - 2014.07.15 22:54:00 -
[97] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay
except the assault doesn't compliment the squad. it only has 1 purpose while any other class offers up more option
you keep going back to this misguided opinion that assault are doing something different than the other classes but they are not. extra damage and ehp doesn't make them different it just makes every other class forgo their role to compete. why spec into a suit with 1 use when i could fit one with 10 and still be able to kill. you could say thats the issue but thats what happens when 1 or 2 suits have all the roles
a lot of you think the issue is the other suits but refuse to see what's right in front of you. how many assault tweaks has there been now all along the same lines and still no stand out working assault. you think 1,2, even 100 more changes in the suit stat's is going to change anything. it wont. it hasn't any other time its been done.
All Hail Legion
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
198
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Posted - 2014.07.15 23:02:00 -
[98] - Quote
Granted the game is post op so any ideas beyond tweaking little values is moot but I'll throw my two cents in for the hell of it.
Jump Jets!
Yep just having something where if you held down the jump button you could boost into the sky for a limited amount of time. Maybe even have modules that can increase the boost duration. Just outfit all assault variant suits with this item and make it exclusive to assault suits. That way the suit would be excellent at "Assaulting" objectives while the heavies would stick to point defense, scouts Ewar, and logistics supporting the others.
Of course this idea isn't novel in fact its standard in sci fi fps but hey so is not rewarding kills and deaths to people who have been revived on the field... CCP has made it pretty evident that they designed this game from scratch and ignored many a good idea from the decades of sci fi fps shooters. It was a pet project to see if they could make a fps that would be good enough for an Eve tie-in which is what they plan to do with Legion.
Don't hold your breath though folks, CCP has worked on many games at this point and have only NOT scrapped Eve. So good luck to those holding out on legion.
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Brotherband
Fantom Company
21
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:24:00 -
[99] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Granted the game is post op so any ideas beyond tweaking little values is moot but I'll throw my two cents in for the hell of it.
Jump Jets!
Yep just having something where if you held down the jump button you could boost into the sky for a limited amount of time. Maybe even have modules that can increase the boost duration. Just outfit all assault variant suits with this item and make it exclusive to assault suits. That way the suit would be excellent at "Assaulting" objectives while the heavies would stick to point defense, scouts Ewar, and logistics supporting the others.
Of course this idea isn't novel in fact its standard in sci fi fps but hey so is not rewarding kills and deaths to people who have been revived on the field... CCP has made it pretty evident that they designed this game from scratch and ignored many a good idea from the decades of sci fi fps shooters. It was a pet project to see if they could make a fps that would be good enough for an Eve tie-in which is what they plan to do with Legion.
Don't hold your breath though folks, CCP has worked on many games at this point and have only NOT scrapped Eve. So good luck to those holding out on legion.
That sounds like another game I know of.
I do not expect us to live through this fight. My only request is that you fight with honor and die with dignity.
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Michael Arck
4871
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:43:00 -
[100] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Michael Arck wrote:An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay except the assault doesn't compliment the squad. it only has 1 purpose while any other class offers up more option you keep going back to this misguided opinion that assault are doing something different than the other classes but they are not. extra damage and ehp doesn't make them different it just makes every other class forgo their role to compete. why spec into a suit with 1 use when i could fit one with 10 and still be able to kill. you could say thats the issue but thats what happens when 1 or 2 suits have all the roles a lot of you think the issue is the other suits but refuse to see what's right in front of you. how many assault tweaks has there been now all along the same lines and still no stand out working assault. you think 1,2, even 100 more changes in the suit stat's is going to change anything. it wont. it hasn't any other time its been done.
In your squad, the assault doesn't compliment? And it has been said many times over in this thread. That Assaults don't offer "glitz and glamour" that other roles have, this is why you keep repeating "it only has one purpose while any other class offers up more option"
So you acknowledge their role, but say its not attractive. Just as someone has already said in this thread. Since only they slay and suppress and don't have various options as opposed to a scout or logi, you figure them to not have a role.
In the squads I work with, assaults compliments. All roles work in congruency when people are not being oblivious to the capabilities of a assault. There are maps that are assault centric and when that comes around, I change to adjust. The sentinel in my squad takes point, the logi keeps him going while supplying me, the scout disrupts and I mop those who try to run from my heavy and assault players with extreme prejudice on ground.
What you want is better bonuses for the motivation to realize the role of the Assault. That's what you're arguing about. Not about its role. Bonuses are not roles, they are bonuses.
And alot of us KNOW its because of the other suits because why in the hell people are complaining about scouts being frontline? About the brick tanking? What about slayer logis that people complained about? It's very obvious that people take other classes and use them in place of assault. Assault is one dimensional, while other roles provides two to three.
You're not listening to the truth of the matter. You don't even understand that you want a better bonus for assaults instead of clearer role defined. That has been repeated in several of your posts but even you, the owner of your own thoughts, don't understand that.
So this discussion is done in vain with you. You will just never get it. You want incentives to play assault. Just say so instead of rambling about nonsensical points of assaults not having a role.
Archistrategos
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
Dark Taboo
1596
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Posted - 2014.07.16 17:23:00 -
[101] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Michael Arck wrote:An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay except the assault doesn't compliment the squad. it only has 1 purpose while any other class offers up more option you keep going back to this misguided opinion that assault are doing something different than the other classes but they are not. extra damage and ehp doesn't make them different it just makes every other class forgo their role to compete. why spec into a suit with 1 use when i could fit one with 10 and still be able to kill. you could say thats the issue but thats what happens when 1 or 2 suits have all the roles a lot of you think the issue is the other suits but refuse to see what's right in front of you. how many assault tweaks has there been now all along the same lines and still no stand out working assault. you think 1,2, even 100 more changes in the suit stat's is going to change anything. it wont. it hasn't any other time its been done. In your squad, the assault doesn't compliment? And it has been said many times over in this thread. That Assaults don't offer "glitz and glamour" that other roles have, this is why you keep repeating "it only has one purpose while any other class offers up more option" So you acknowledge their role, but say its not attractive. Just as someone has already said in this thread. Since only they slay and suppress and don't have various options as opposed to a scout or logi, you figure them to not have a role. In the squads I work with, assaults compliments. All roles work in congruency when people are not being oblivious to the capabilities of a assault. There are maps that are assault centric and when that comes around, I change to adjust. The sentinel in my squad takes point, the logi keeps him going while supplying me, the scout disrupts and I mop those who try to run from my heavy and assault players with extreme prejudice on ground. What you want is better bonuses for the motivation to realize the role of the Assault. That's what you're arguing about. Not about its role. Bonuses are not roles, they are bonuses. And alot of us KNOW its because of the other suits because why in the hell people are complaining about scouts being frontline? About the brick tanking? What about slayer logis that people complained about? It's very obvious that people take other classes and use them in place of assault. Assault is one dimensional, while other roles provides two to three. You're not listening to the truth of the matter. You don't even understand that you want a better bonus for assaults instead of clearer role defined. That has been repeated in several of your posts but even you, the owner of your own thoughts, don't understand that. So this discussion is done in vain with you. You will just never get it. You want incentives to play assault. Just say so instead of rambling about nonsensical points of assaults not having a role.
your right it doesn't offer glitz and glamour, its offers nothing because every other suit can do what an assault can do and more.
no i do not want better bonuses, you obviously dont have any idea about what this post is about. you are talking to me about this like i'm trying to nerf the assault in some way or form when infact i'm trying to make it more useful and more prominent as the mainstream suit without relying on destroying the other classes to make it work.
your the one missing the point. its not about bonuses its about finally allowing the assaults to compete by allowing them to do the same as every other class and that is customize into or out of their role.
your ignoring the only fact that is actually relevant, the fact that any stat buff to damage or ehp will always be surpassed by the other classes because they have a role they can spec out of to compensate. any buff to assault throughout the life of dust has always been customised out by the other classes, leaving those players who actually stay as their role including the assault much weaker to everything. which isnt a bad thing in the case of the other classes but in the case of the assault its game destroying.
the answer to the problem is not buff the stats again like has happened virtually every patch which would quickly be customised over. the answer is to make assaults more customisable by giving them another role with extra slots and extra stats which they can choose to ignore or embrace.
you obviously have no interest in embracing another role so you would just fit better damage mods and more ehp getting your prominent kill buff without requiring other classes to lose slots or stats.
All Hail Legion
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843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
57
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
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I have to agree with him on this topic.
Since commando suit came into dust the assault class has been lowered to the bottom of the food chain. The sentinel and commando suits have much higher sHP then the assault....the commando get a damage bonus to all light weapons, with the equipment slot for more ammo.....the sentinel just out classes the assault with a light weapon.
Before all the racial suits came out the assault was top of the line, but then with all the nerfs and buffs they just got left in the Dust ( pun intended ).
Even a logi suit is better at slaying then the assault suit. Sure they have less eHP then the assault and don't have a side arm (except the ammar ) but with the ammount of cpu/pg and mod/equipment slots they become far better at slaying then the assault ever could |
Ace Mercenary
Terminal Courtesy
Proficiency V.
1
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Posted - 2014.07.18 21:53:00 -
[103] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
They do have a purpose its to break the balance between scouts and heavies. I get best kdr with them. |
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