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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult?
your missing the point. every class comes as combat with a role. assault comes as combat only and is required to gimp its killing role to become anything else. every other class comes with a role so is not required to gimp its killing role in order to fill its other role.
so for an assault to become anything more than a killer it has to become a lot less of a killer. but this is not the case with other suits with a specific role. this is why every other class can easily become an assault beating fit and still fill their main role while the assault can't become much more than an assault
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 12:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Think of all of the different kinds of assaulting you can do:
Suppression - take a high position, lay down suppressive fire to prevent enemy movement. Damage mod tank a rail rifle variant, focusing on moving in and out of LOS as HP permits, drop a nanohive since you'll be spending a lot of ammo.
Battlefront line holder - armor tank and damage mod tank. Use a combat rifle variant focusing on hunkering down behind cover and using standard progressive movements across the battlefield. Focus on squad communications (use a mic).
Infiltration - Use precision enhancers and range amplifiers for added Intel to evaluate risk and infiltrate enemy territory at their weak points. Then proceed to massacre from within.
AV - armor tank to mitigate small arms damage while locking on and use a swarm to deter enemy vehicles from hanging around your teammates. Fit some packed AV grenades to finish off LAVs.
Heavy Assassination - Don't forget that assaults have an e-war advantage over heavies, so they make great assasins to remove fatties.
etc.
again missing the point. you are talking about changing the fittings to make a role. not like logistics for instance which is a killer with a role. taking fittings out of your role to make it a better killer affords every other suit better customisation options. there is a big difference. an assault can never be better at assaulting or remain an assault while filling a role. a logi can always be better at assaulting or being a logi or being both. this is the issue. without a defining role which would allow tweaking in either direction then the assault will never be the go to suit for killing
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 12:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lea Silencio wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Clone D wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:if killing itself is a role then that means every other class has 2 roles while the assault only has one. after all this game is a combat game and killing is the point. so still my point is that the assault has less of a role than anyone else Make a list of all the roles in the game. Figure out ways that make sense to build a hybrid assault class with each of those roles. For instance, you could make an assault hacker by adding a complex code breaker. Is it really that difficult? your missing the point. every class comes as combat with a role. assault comes as combat only and is required to gimp its killing role to become anything else. every other class comes with a role so is not required to gimp its killing role in order to fill its other role. so for an assault to become anything more than a killer it has to become a lot less of a killer. but this is not the case with other suits with a specific role. this is why every other class can easily become an assault beating fit and still fill their main role while the assault can't become much more than an assault Do you know how broken and utterly wrong you sound? The only variable piece that adds "killer" potential is the inclusion of damage mods. Nothing more. Add to the fact that they are a high slot and eliminating them and replacing them with, say, a shield extender only adds more eHP. Even that still keeps it in this "killer" role, as you lovingly refer to it as. Furthermore, the suit and how you fit it do NOT make you an instant slayer. They only lend to added diversity/survivability. A player's individual skill makes him a "killer", not his proto suit with mods. I guarantee you that a militia-only geared Sgt Kirk would utterly DESTROY a fully proto'd out FWA rookie, both 1v1 and on the leaderboards. The saying " the man makes the suit; the suit does not make the man" applies here. Assaults have a primary role and it is to...get ready for it....ASSAULT. As mentioned above, you can make it what you want to. You just have to be creative. We only need one role and that is to kill sh!t. Simple as that.
i can assault in a heavy suit, i can assault in a logi suit, i can assault in a scout suit. assault is the act not the role. being a killer is not a role if everyone does it. the purpose of the game is to kill and the role you play helps you get where you are going. if a suit is only designed to kill in a game with massive customisation options like dust then every other suit with a role will always outperform it no matter what buffs/nerfs you do to the game.
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1556
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Posted - 2014.07.13 14:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:If you're good you can make an assault suit work.
is "making it work" good enough for a game that boasts about customisation. every class can pretty much do everyone elses roles but when it comes to assaults they can only do a half assed attempt at doing anything else. giving then a specific role which they can choose to ignore if they want would only make them a stronger class then making it work wouldn't be required as it would just work like all the other classes do
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1563
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Posted - 2014.07.13 15:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield.
what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random.
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1564
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:DontChimpOut wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:they have no role on the battlefield.
buff/nerfing ehp,damage,slots,pg and cpu etc will never change anything and will just start the cycle of broken classes all over again.
damage is not a role, ehp is not a role. the 2 combined do not make a role. simply giving them these stats does nothing.
you can nerf classes that outshine them forever and it will never fix the issue because they have no purpose I thought according to you, it was vehicles that have no place on the battlefield. what are you talking about. you dont have a valid point so you just make up something random. I know about your posting history. Why don't you tell the forums what you really mean.
you take my words out of context to make yourself look smart. you are not. what do i mean. you seem to know it all
All Hail Legion
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1564
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Mikey Ducati wrote:Hello, my name is Mr. Reality Check. And I'm here to tell you that Assaults indeed have a role! It is very simply designed and it is to slay, my friend! I see that look on your face. You question that mockingly, but friend, any assault class on any FPS is pretty basic friendo. You just kill. Maybe its because you dont play the role? Can you give up the specialty roles the like of scouts and logis...oh and then sentinels and just play assault? Its quite fun, friend! There are slayers amongst you friend.
"Slaying" is not a role. Area-Denial is a role involving killing Shock is a role involving killing Sentinels and commandos are better are both for 2 reasons that we need to look at: The maps are small, so their speed isn't really a penalty. Throwaway BPO LAVs from merc packs completely negate their slower speed, even if the maps were bigger. CCP needs to make sure legion doesn't have BPO vehicles. Assaulting is a role, and it involves killing.
so logi is an assault suit, scout is an assault suit, heavy is an assault suit. once again assaulting is an act not a role. you go through the act of assaulting a position. if you are healing while players are assaulting you are assaulting but filling the role of the medic
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1565
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Posted - 2014.07.13 16:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
i dont understand why people are arguing with me. im not asking for a nerf or anything. if anything i'm asking for a role to buff them without nerfing every other class.
why is a logi able to outshine an assault. its because it has more slots. why is the scout able to outshine an assault. its because they have similar ehp and better suited passive stats and the ability to choose to fit equipment or not.
for me simply nerfing stats, losing fitting slots or changing skills isn't going to fix nothing. it hasn't fixed anything in years. it just starts the circle of broken things over again.
for me you are a soldier first then the role you fill. your training in real life as a soldier works at the basic level under that philosophy. if dust had that behind all its balancing then it would be a lot more balanced than it is now.
all the balancing factors have been about who should be doing all the killing yet we are all soldiers in the game. we should all be doing the killing. get that right first then give everyone a role on the battlefield, av/medic/heavy weapons etc. that way if you choose to ignore your role you can but so can anyone else and no one is at a huge disadvantage
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1567
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Posted - 2014.07.13 18:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Look at combat roles in the armed forces: Infantry shoots Combat medic shoots and administers medical treatments Combat engineer shoots and deploys/removes obstacles Artillery shoots and shoots bigger stuff Every combat MOS is trained to shoot, etc. There is nothing wrong with assault having one function. Assault in Dust is analogous to infantry in the armed forces. It is okay. This organizational unit belongs just as it is.
you couldn't be more wrong. infantry just like mercenary is the job not the role
infantry squad would consist of many infantry soldiers all filling roles to make an effective fighting force
on the ground : medic/radio operator/mortar man/AV/commander/gunner/sniper/ pioneer etc etc the list goes on
in a vehicle : driver/gunner/loader/commander/radio operator, etc etc depending on the vehicle
1 thing for sure is they are all soldiers, all trained exactly the same to kill the same enemy. i was trained no different in the art of killing people in real life than any other infantry man like
the medics the drivers, the mortar men, the Anti tank guys, the radio operators, the drivers, the pioneers, the gunners, the snipers etc etc
and thats just the infantry
the tankers, nurses, doctors, the military police, the chefs, the clerks, the engineers etc etc. none are infantry but all trained the same way regardless.
if you are a soldier you are a killer first. your training is no different. anything after that is to fulfill your role
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1567
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Posted - 2014.07.13 18:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1572
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Posted - 2014.07.13 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:someone please define the assault role. please don't say they shoot stuff or attack stuff as that is also what every other class does.
what is the defining role of the assault that other classes don't already do We keep saying, you keep not listening.
as i expected. you dont know.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1581
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
a lot of you seem to be ignoring the fact that every class who approaches and shoots at the enemy is assaulting them
assault "To make a short, violent, but well-ordered attack against a local objective, such as a gun emplacement, a fort, or a machine gun nest." this includes people. you go through the act of assaulting
now a role in that assault would be a LAW man in the squad to take on vehicle threats, a medic incase someone was injured, a HMG gunner to lay down suppressing fire, a commander giving orders,a radio man liaising with command and support assets, a pioneer with breach charges etc
they all assault the position. they all for the most part use the same weapons and carry the same gear. they all have the same training then finally they all have their own particular role to fulfill when required.
dust has this big problem where everything is balanced on the roles people play and not the fact they are soldiers/killers first. this makes some classes either OP or extremely customisable to the point they outshine others.
ask yourself why other classes can for the most part outshine the assault and answer would likely be customisation. every class has the role to use or ignore but the assault is just the assault. it has nothing extra to play with. for a lot of you the answer is to decrease that customisation on other classes and buff ehp and dps on the assaults but that now leaves those who do fit their roles worse off as they have less of everything to play with while their counter gets a buff and the slayers see little change. i think its wrong to break other classes to make 1 class work. the problem isn't dps and ehp its customisation through roles and the lack of role with the assault not giving them that option
if the assault had a role and slots to go with it they could choose to fit full killer and compete with other suits that do that while leaving those that fit their role still able to compete and not get nerfed all the time
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1590
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Posted - 2014.07.15 15:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
what makes a slayer and tell me why only the assault class is the slayer. after all a lot of you keep saying the assault role is to slay.
slaying to me is just plain old killing people.
now tell me which other class does not kill.
no one is saying they shouldn't be good killers or better than any other class at doing it. what i am suggesting is that any simple buffs to "slaying" isn't enough. ask yourself why do other classes have this excellent ability to adapt to the battlefield while the assault cannot. its that customisation their role allows them. for a logi its to not fit good equipment freeing up pq/cpu more than compensating for any dps/ehp buff an assault gets. the same goes for scouts who lose the cloak or 2nd piece of equipment. a heavy can lose the heavy weapon. what can the assault lose to increase its performance.
the problem is if you ignore your role as any other class you can become a better killer but the assault cannot become a better killer because it is already one.
even if they were given the role of "combat specialist" (RE,AV,Scans) for example with slots and stats to put them in that role they would have the free pg/cpu should they choose to ignore it to compensate for any other classes ability to out stat them.
this would easily balance them out with the likes of logis and scouts. fill your role and you are the average soldier on the field, ignore it and you are a killer. this would allow assaults the same choices every other class is afforded. fit for role or fit to kill.
Ok so you don't like the idea of assaults having a role. don't fit for it then. fit those better plates and damage mods. insisting on buffed stats to make up for the lack of customisation is just a bad idea. it has been done time and time again virtually every patch and we still have the same issues every time. while every other role has the ability to adapt the assault doesnt
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1592
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:what makes a slayer and tell me why only the assault class is the slayer. after all a lot of you keep saying the assault role is to slay.
slaying to me is just plain old killing people.
now tell me which other class does not kill.
no one is saying they shouldn't be good killers or better than any other class at doing it. what i am suggesting is that any simple buffs to "slaying" isn't enough. ask yourself why do other classes have this excellent ability to adapt to the battlefield while the assault cannot. its that customisation their role allows them. for a logi its to not fit good equipment freeing up pq/cpu more than compensating for any dps/ehp buff an assault gets. the same goes for scouts who lose the cloak or 2nd piece of equipment. a heavy can lose the heavy weapon. what can the assault lose to increase its performance.
the problem is if you ignore your role as any other class you can become a better killer but the assault cannot become a better killer because it is already one.
even if they were given the role of "combat specialist" (RE,AV,Scans) for example with slots and stats to put them in that role they would have the free pg/cpu should they choose to ignore it to compensate for any other classes ability to out stat them.
this would easily balance them out with the likes of logis and scouts. fill your role and you are the average soldier on the field, ignore it and you are a killer. this would allow assaults the same choices every other class is afforded. fit for role or fit to kill.
Ok so you don't like the idea of assaults having a role. don't fit for it then. fit those better plates and damage mods. insisting on buffed stats to make up for the lack of customisation is just a bad idea. it has been done time and time again virtually every patch and we still have the same issues every time. while every other role has the ability to adapt the assault doesnt Wow you are a slow individual. Like I asked that Summ Dude person, just how long you've been playing FPS games? The assault class in EVERY FPS title has been about slaying and/or suppression. The assault is the average soldier. Combat specialist is equal to assault. Smh
what you fail to see is this is not your standard FPS. every game i have ever played the role you play has always been secondary to killing and balanced accordingly. in dust killing is secondary to your role. this is why assaults will never be balanced with the other classes because the secondary roles of the other classes afford them more power and more flexibility.
i dont know why your getting so worked up over this. so what you don't want anything else out of assault. stay in your stagnant suit, stay killer and only fit ehp and dps stuff like the logis currently do thats fine. i on the other hand do want more out of the suit. people can complain all they want about other classes being over used but when they have 99% of the job to do and more flexibility to do it what do you expect.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1592
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Posted - 2014.07.15 22:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay
except the assault doesn't compliment the squad. it only has 1 purpose while any other class offers up more option
you keep going back to this misguided opinion that assault are doing something different than the other classes but they are not. extra damage and ehp doesn't make them different it just makes every other class forgo their role to compete. why spec into a suit with 1 use when i could fit one with 10 and still be able to kill. you could say thats the issue but thats what happens when 1 or 2 suits have all the roles
a lot of you think the issue is the other suits but refuse to see what's right in front of you. how many assault tweaks has there been now all along the same lines and still no stand out working assault. you think 1,2, even 100 more changes in the suit stat's is going to change anything. it wont. it hasn't any other time its been done.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo
1596
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Posted - 2014.07.16 17:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Michael Arck wrote:An ideal squad compliments each other. Sentinels take point. Logis keep squad alive. Scout recons and relays intel. Sniper also recons but most importantly its team demoralizes while assault mops clones in between all roles working congruent with each other.
What makes the shared opinion worth it is the simple fact it does not over complicate the situation. You could do progress of elimination and come up with the same results. Or you can look to their title as a clear cut, one word explanation. Or you can play with assaults who slay at killing.
The problem is not the assault. Its people uses classes intended for one role and doing another. Theres people using scouts to slay except the assault doesn't compliment the squad. it only has 1 purpose while any other class offers up more option you keep going back to this misguided opinion that assault are doing something different than the other classes but they are not. extra damage and ehp doesn't make them different it just makes every other class forgo their role to compete. why spec into a suit with 1 use when i could fit one with 10 and still be able to kill. you could say thats the issue but thats what happens when 1 or 2 suits have all the roles a lot of you think the issue is the other suits but refuse to see what's right in front of you. how many assault tweaks has there been now all along the same lines and still no stand out working assault. you think 1,2, even 100 more changes in the suit stat's is going to change anything. it wont. it hasn't any other time its been done. In your squad, the assault doesn't compliment? And it has been said many times over in this thread. That Assaults don't offer "glitz and glamour" that other roles have, this is why you keep repeating "it only has one purpose while any other class offers up more option" So you acknowledge their role, but say its not attractive. Just as someone has already said in this thread. Since only they slay and suppress and don't have various options as opposed to a scout or logi, you figure them to not have a role. In the squads I work with, assaults compliments. All roles work in congruency when people are not being oblivious to the capabilities of a assault. There are maps that are assault centric and when that comes around, I change to adjust. The sentinel in my squad takes point, the logi keeps him going while supplying me, the scout disrupts and I mop those who try to run from my heavy and assault players with extreme prejudice on ground. What you want is better bonuses for the motivation to realize the role of the Assault. That's what you're arguing about. Not about its role. Bonuses are not roles, they are bonuses. And alot of us KNOW its because of the other suits because why in the hell people are complaining about scouts being frontline? About the brick tanking? What about slayer logis that people complained about? It's very obvious that people take other classes and use them in place of assault. Assault is one dimensional, while other roles provides two to three. You're not listening to the truth of the matter. You don't even understand that you want a better bonus for assaults instead of clearer role defined. That has been repeated in several of your posts but even you, the owner of your own thoughts, don't understand that. So this discussion is done in vain with you. You will just never get it. You want incentives to play assault. Just say so instead of rambling about nonsensical points of assaults not having a role.
your right it doesn't offer glitz and glamour, its offers nothing because every other suit can do what an assault can do and more.
no i do not want better bonuses, you obviously dont have any idea about what this post is about. you are talking to me about this like i'm trying to nerf the assault in some way or form when infact i'm trying to make it more useful and more prominent as the mainstream suit without relying on destroying the other classes to make it work.
your the one missing the point. its not about bonuses its about finally allowing the assaults to compete by allowing them to do the same as every other class and that is customize into or out of their role.
your ignoring the only fact that is actually relevant, the fact that any stat buff to damage or ehp will always be surpassed by the other classes because they have a role they can spec out of to compensate. any buff to assault throughout the life of dust has always been customised out by the other classes, leaving those players who actually stay as their role including the assault much weaker to everything. which isnt a bad thing in the case of the other classes but in the case of the assault its game destroying.
the answer to the problem is not buff the stats again like has happened virtually every patch which would quickly be customised over. the answer is to make assaults more customisable by giving them another role with extra slots and extra stats which they can choose to ignore or embrace.
you obviously have no interest in embracing another role so you would just fit better damage mods and more ehp getting your prominent kill buff without requiring other classes to lose slots or stats.
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