DUST Search - Sticky:Nova Knives in Hotfix Charlie

RedPencil wrote:

CCP Logibro wrote:

I'll also be testing aim adhesion next week to help with tracking targets at close range.

What do you mean by " aim adhesion " ?
Is it an aim assist ?

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

I understand that charging while sprinting is off the table, but if you don't make that change then I feel you should just leave knives alone. Part of the fun of knives is the amount of skill it takes to sneak in close and get the kill. The changes you have proposed so far are a step towards taking skill out of knife gameplay and will lead to such shittery as people hanging around corners with charged knives and swiping "just close enough" to get the instakill on everybody. That isn't fun, really for either party, and it's a form of gameplay that has no place in Dust/Legion/wtfever. Buff STD knives and either put in charging while sprinting or leave them alone. And yes, I understand the reason we don't have charging while sprinting is likely that it would take recoding to make that change.

Edit: Optimization skill change is good too.

Think the same, here is a short answer.
* Knife is a fun weapon to run because it require user skill and experience. The aim bot should not implement to draw QQ later.

* Would you considering increase walking speed when hold knife in hand? It is more useful in combat than AA.

* 10 damage increase for Std does not change any thing, 150 is the minimum damage for single stab to be valid.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8397	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:47:00 - [1] - Quote So, it's that time again. I'll be looking at Nova Knives in Hotfix Charlie, and am hoping to make some improvements for them. Here's the pili First off, I'll be trialing an increase from 2m range to 2.5m. This one isn't going in 100%, I'm hopefully going to get some testing time stabbing people around the office next week to see how it feels, might give a smaller increase if it's too much. I'll also be testing aim adhesion next week to help with tracking targets at close range. I'll look at adding a fitting optimization skill. Like other fitting optimization skills, this will decrease Nova Knife PG requirements by 5% per level, and will be a 6x skill. It will require Nova Knife Proficiency 4 to train. The skillbook will cost 774,000ISK. Finally, I'll be decreasing charge time on standard knives to 1.2 seconds, and increasing their damage by 10 to 100 to bring them in line with the other knives. Just to cut any discussion off at the pass, charging knives while sprinting is off the table. It's not going to happen, so please don't If you see any issues with any of these changes, please discuss them in this thread. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Cavani1EE7 The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 137	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. 1337
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 535	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:14:00 - [3] - Quote Nice to see the knives will be in charlie. Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
hfderrtgvcd Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 108	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:17:00 - [4] - Quote Please don't overdue the adhesion. I think most of us would prefer for nova knives to remain a skill weapon.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1284	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:25:00 - [5] - Quote Good call with the adhesion, its necessary for such CQC weapons "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2034	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:27:00 - [6] - Quote IMO, adhesion should be a 'if they're in your screen at time of slicing, and they move, it should attempt to chase them' Is it possible to make it such that another scout(even a 2x Cx Plate) isn't just instalocked, while any moderately tanked assault(2x enhanced plate GalAsault?) is almost impossible to miss? As for the range, i have no clue how this would work, at times i've been knif'd (literally) from across a hallway, but other times i can stand right in front of someone and miss. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
pagl1u M Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 942	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:46:00 - [7] - Quote Better range and aim adesion are good and needed. I ve never been a fan of charge while sprinting but it is a sometime it is really hard to hit someone while he is sprinting, harder then it should be. NK already needs you to sneak and almost hug your enemy without him noticing you, it shouldnt be close to impossible to hit. I see 2 options to sole this: 1 Increase walking speed if you have nk equipped (or if it d be too strong, only increase it when you have them in your Hand.) 2 when you have your nk charged and you release R1,uf you are properly aiming at your target you make a little sprint forward to hit him, (2mtr of sprint for example) Hope you will take this in consideration, sorry for my english. Minmatar loyalist!
Grimmiers 626	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:07:00 - [8] - Quote I think the hit detection is fine for nova knives. You could try making R3 melee damage with a nova knife use the uncharged damage, or act as a myrofibril giving some boost only while equipped. Also the cloaking delay should be worked on some more to not just have an animation speed increase.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3282	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:36:00 - [9] - Quote Striking with the knives slows you down. It feels like you almost come to a complete stop when you slash. Can you get rid of that? Nova Knives (STD) are also a High Risk, Low Reward item. Knifing aficionados have explained that if you want to use nova knives get the operation skill to 5 as fast as you can, Because an Minmatar Scout Operations 1 with Ishukone Nova Knives is better than Minmatar scout Operations V with basic Nova Knives. Instead of changing Nova Knives from 90 to 100, I would like to see Nova Knives at 150, ZN-28 Nova Knives at 175, and Ishukone are in a good spot. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 6116	Posted - 2014.07.12 17:37:00 - [10] - Quote Glad to see my request for an optimization skill is getting in. The small range increase will be nice and the aim adhesion will help alleviate the problem of our narrow FOV. STD knives will still be pretty meh but a small increase is better than no increase. Thanks for looking into them. o7 Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.

BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 39	Posted - 2014.07.12 17:42:00 - [11] - Quote what race is the nova knifes and is it good on shield or armor. Just asking this cause nova knifes is the only weapon i never used in the game. It's nova knife time The Blazing Intellect Machine
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2148	Posted - 2014.07.12 17:45:00 - [12] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: what race is the nova knifes and is it good on shield or armor. Just asking this cause nova knifes is the only weapon i never used in the game. It's nova knife time It's got a unique damage profile. 100% vs either. As far as I know. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 403	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:21:00 - [13] - Quote I understand that charging while sprinting is off the table, but if you don't make that change then I feel you should just leave knives alone. Part of the fun of knives is the amount of skill it takes to sneak in close and get the kill. The changes you have proposed so far is a step towards taking skill out of knife gameplay and will lead to such shittery as people hanging around corners with charged knives and swiping "just close enough" to get the instakill on everybody. That isn't fun, really for either party, and it's a form of gameplay that has no place in Dust/Legion/wtfever. Buff STD knives and either put in charging while sprinting or leave them alone. And yes, I understand the reason we don't have charging while sprinting is likely that it would take recoding to make that change. Edit: Optimization skill change is good too. Stuff....?
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 37	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:58:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I'll also be testing aim adhesion next week to help with tracking targets at close range. What do you mean by " aim adhesion " ? Is it an aim assist ? RECON BY FIRE wrote: I understand that charging while sprinting is off the table, but if you don't make that change then I feel you should just leave knives alone. Part of the fun of knives is the amount of skill it takes to sneak in close and get the kill. The changes you have proposed so far are a step towards taking skill out of knife gameplay and will lead to such shittery as people hanging around corners with charged knives and swiping "just close enough" to get the instakill on everybody. That isn't fun, really for either party, and it's a form of gameplay that has no place in Dust/Legion/wtfever. Buff STD knives and either put in charging while sprinting or leave them alone. And yes, I understand the reason we don't have charging while sprinting is likely that it would take recoding to make that change. Edit: Optimization skill change is good too. Think the same, here is a short answer. * Knife is a fun weapon to run because it require user skill and experience. The aim bot should not implement to draw QQ later. * Would you considering increase walking speed when hold knife in hand? It is more useful in combat than AA. * 10 damage increase for Std does not change any thing, 150 is the minimum damage for single stab to be valid.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3519	Posted - 2014.07.12 19:07:00 - [15] - Quote RedPencil wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: I'll also be testing aim adhesion next week to help with tracking targets at close range. What do you mean by " aim adhesion " ? Is it an aim assist ? RECON BY FIRE wrote: I understand that charging while sprinting is off the table, but if you don't make that change then I feel you should just leave knives alone. Part of the fun of knives is the amount of skill it takes to sneak in close and get the kill. The changes you have proposed so far are a step towards taking skill out of knife gameplay and will lead to such shittery as people hanging around corners with charged knives and swiping "just close enough" to get the instakill on everybody. That isn't fun, really for either party, and it's a form of gameplay that has no place in Dust/Legion/wtfever. Buff STD knives and either put in charging while sprinting or leave them alone. And yes, I understand the reason we don't have charging while sprinting is likely that it would take recoding to make that change. Edit: Optimization skill change is good too. Think the same, here is a short answer. * Knife is a fun weapon to run because it require user skill and experience. The aim bot should not implement to draw QQ later. * Would you considering increase walking speed when hold knife in hand? It is more useful in combat than AA. * 10 damage increase for Std does not change any thing, 150 is the minimum damage for single stab to be valid. Your vision sticks on the guy that closes to you while using the knifes. And then you can start stabbing people like a madman.
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 37	Posted - 2014.07.12 19:29:00 - [16] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Your vision sticks on the guy that closes to you while using the knifes. And then you can start stabbing people like a madman. Yes, I'm a madman on my alt, I run min scout with knife, no rifle and flank people A_SS. Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
Not Iggy Nos Nothi 178	Posted - 2014.07.12 19:35:00 - [17] - Quote Removing backpedal speed is more important than any of these other changes. I appreciate the buff to PG. That will help a great deal. Improving walk speed while equipped would cause people to use them for a "strafe" improvement and reducing backpedal speed is much greater improvement as it will help the shotgun as well. Backpedal speed in the MCC before battle and merc quarters is not 100%, so it shouldn't be off the table for in the actual game. Strafe speed is also not 100%, so please people being able to walk backwards as fast as they can forward. IgniteableAura
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 38	Posted - 2014.07.12 20:28:00 - [18] - Quote Not Iggy wrote: Removing backpedal speed is more important than any of these other changes. I appreciate the buff to PG. That will help a great deal. Improving walk speed while equipped would cause people to use them for a "strafe" improvement and reducing backpedal speed is much greater improvement as it will help the shotgun as well. Backpedal speed in the MCC before battle and merc quarters is not 100%, so it shouldn't be off the table for in the actual game. Strafe speed is also not 100%, so please nerf being able to walk backwards as fast as they can forward. Edit: I assume you are shotguner not a knifer. We are balance knife please do not drag other weapon benefit here. * What I said is walking speed increase only "knife in your hand" hopefully, you don't have a problem with knifer dancing in front of your barrel. They can't trow knife at you right? * Reduce Backpedal will have effect other weapon and they don't want to change it. This is what Logibro said in old thread. FYI: Make the adjustment that affect only knife but not affect other weapon is the point. * Again AA on knife is bad. We don't see people QQ on knife yet because it require user skill and they admire their defeat. Shot gun already broke enough. Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3291	Posted - 2014.07.12 20:40:00 - [19] - Quote RedPencil wrote: Not Iggy wrote: Removing backpedal speed is more important than any of these other changes. I appreciate the buff to PG. That will help a great deal. Improving walk speed while equipped would cause people to use them for a "strafe" improvement and reducing backpedal speed is much greater improvement as it will help the shotgun as well. Backpedal speed in the MCC before battle and merc quarters is not 100%, so it shouldn't be off the table for in the actual game. Strafe speed is also not 100%, so please nerf being able to walk backwards as fast as they can forward. Edit: I assume you are shotguner not a knifer. We are balance knife please do not drag other weapon benefit here. * What I said is walking speed increase only "knife in your hand" hopefully, you don't have a problem with knifer dancing in front of your barrel. They can't trow knife at you right? * Reduce Backpedal will have effect other weapon and they don't want to change it. This is what Logibro said in old thread. FYI: Make the adjustment that affect only knife but not affect other weapon is the point. * Again AA on knife is bad. We don't see people QQ on knife yet because it require user skill and they admire their defeat. Shot gun already broke enough. Yes, reducing backwards movement is bad. It would fall under improving core game play mechanics. We can't be allowed to fix underlying problem, me must turn this system into a giant kluge until everything is broken or just becomes EVE-Online style of combat where there exist very little player-involvement in combat and let algorithms for aiming and damage do the job. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2035	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:05:00 - [20] - Quote Making knives increase speed in ANY way will simply resupt in Sentinels, brickscouts, and Amarrs just slapping them on for the CQC strafing, or for running away. Currently strafe speed is like, 90%? Make backpedal 90%, or 95%, but it needs to be less than full forward. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation

RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 39	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:22:00 - [21] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Making knives increase speed in ANY way will simply resupt in Sentinels, brickscouts, and Amarrs just slapping them on for the CQC strafing, or for running away. Currently strafe speed is like, 90%? Make backpedal 90%, or 95%, but it needs to be less than full forward. Is that "Not Iggy" is your alt? you 2 said the something without read other comment. Go back and read several comment above before you post please. I don't get why people have a problem with Sentinels hold knife while dancing. Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 137	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:26:00 - [22] - Quote id happly be knifed in the back.. im already sick of shotgunners Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 137	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:29:00 - [23] - Quote RedPencil wrote: Not Iggy wrote: Removing backpedal speed is more important than any of these other changes. I appreciate the buff to PG. That will help a great deal. Improving walk speed while equipped would cause people to use them for a "strafe" improvement and reducing backpedal speed is much greater improvement as it will help the shotgun as well. Backpedal speed in the MCC before battle and merc quarters is not 100%, so it shouldn't be off the table for in the actual game. Strafe speed is also not 100%, so please nerf being able to walk backwards as fast as they can forward. Edit: I assume you are shotguner not a knifer. We are balance knife please do not drag other weapon benefit here. * What I said is walking speed increase only "knife in your hand" hopefully, you don't have a problem with knifer dancing in front of your barrel. They can't trow knife at you right? * Reduce Backpedal will have effect other weapon and they don't want to change it. This is what Logibro said in old thread. FYI: Make the adjustment that affect only knife but not affect other weapon is the point. * Again AA on knife is bad. We don't see people QQ on knife yet because it require user skill and they admire their defeat. Shot gun already broke enough. if you increase movement speed while holding novaknives that would make me nostalgic about the good old days of counterstrike :P and could herald something good.. like assaults having main+side+knife as weapons! Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 758	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:16:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: I'll also be testing aim adhesion next week to help with tracking targets at close range. I understand your going to do a good amount of testing on this, but I can see it being cumbersome when knifing two targets hugging each other (if I understand what you're doing). Could we possibly have an option to disable it? In fact having another train of thought.... I guess the aim adhesion will be sticking to the target we have the crosshair over from the moment of starting the charge? So not much of a problem! Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1298	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:07:00 - [25] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Making knives increase speed in ANY way will simply resupt in Sentinels, brickscouts, and Amarrs just slapping them on for the CQC strafing, or for running away. Currently strafe speed is like, 90%? Make backpedal 90%, or 95%, but it needs to be less than full forward. But if you have them on in CQC, its better to have your rifle/HMG in 90% of cases if you are a sentinel or slow moving assault/brickscount "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Not Iggy Nos Nothi 181	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:11:00 - [26] - Quote RedPencil wrote: Not Iggy wrote: Removing backpedal speed is more important than any of these other changes. I appreciate the buff to PG. That will help a great deal. Improving walk speed while equipped would cause people to use them for a "strafe" improvement and reducing backpedal speed is much greater improvement as it will help the shotgun as well. Backpedal speed in the MCC before battle and merc quarters is not 100%, so it shouldn't be off the table for in the actual game. Strafe speed is also not 100%, so please nerf being able to walk backwards as fast as they can forward. Edit: I assume you are shotguner not a knifer. We are balance knife please do not drag other weapon benefit here. * What I said is walking speed increase only "knife in your hand" hopefully, you don't have a problem with knifer dancing in front of your barrel. They can't trow knife at you right? * Reduce Backpedal will have effect other weapon and they don't want to change it. This is what Logibro said in old thread. FYI: Make the adjustment that affect only knife but not affect other weapon is the point. * Again AA on knife is bad. We don't see people QQ on knife yet because it require user skill and they admire their defeat. Shot gun already broke enough. I have been running NKs since 1.2. Allowing people to just equip something and get improved movement speed will allow people to exploit that. Its also likely incredibly difficult to code and changing values like backwards movement speed is much easier to code. Shotgun is incredibly broke, you are right, it is plagued with hit detection issues and terrible inconsistency. Backpedal speed being 100% of movement speed is really quite stupid. Most people HATE being killed with a NK (its a OHK on most targets, its also usually a "slap in the face"). I am the #1 target once I "slip" into the engagement. Its actually a lot more effective for me to "spook" people once they see me than going for the kill. You will never catch a backpeddler using knives in time for the kill. It will take a full 2 seconds even if you are 2m away. Those two seconds allows plenty of time for the DPS to be put down range. IgniteableAura
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3298	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:18:00 - [27] - Quote Oh! Oh! Oh! Can we get a buff to nova knives so they do damage to tanks again? Not Iggy wrote: You will never catch a backpeddler using knives in time for the kill. It will take a full 2 seconds even if you are 2m away. Those two seconds allows plenty of time for the DPS to be put down range. It doesn't matter if you're using a Shotgun or Nova Knives, backpeddling is just too effective at getting outside optimal ranges because the speed difference is not significant enough to matter in the time it takes to kill someone that is running knives Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 42	Posted - 2014.07.13 00:11:00 - [28] - Quote @Not Iggy People alway exploit the game mechanic no meter what. This is why I do not support Backpedal speed reduce but prefer speed modify ONLY AND ONLY HOLD KNIFE IN HAND. Normally, only the real knifer will keep go on with knife if enemy suddenly turn back, other will just swap to a gun and start shoot. Speed increase only hold knife will give only benefit for the real knifer. I think modify code on walking speed only when holding knife would not be harder than Backpedal reduce speed. As I notice the speed difference when I hold equipment in hand compare to rifle or sidearm or walk slower when charging FG or SCR. I believe they already have some speed modify code under the hood for all module. Every people HATE being killed but the attitude toward their dead are difference depend on weapons. Even me HATE being killed by a NK but I alway admire that he is good. Pure skill + experience with out any AA could approach me close enough to hug me, he deserve the kill. I think most people also admire their dead toward knife as me. From my experience, I usually got gg mail or invite mail instate of hate mail or QQ over my kill. Also the current crop that I join was the people who I stab a knife in their butt before! Anyway both your and mind idea will never see the light. For your idea, Logibro already said that they DON'T want to change. For my idea, I bought it up quite sometime in many thread but CCP never say anything. Want to hear more from you is the idea of bring AA to knife. (I don't like it though ) Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2489	Posted - 2014.07.13 02:11:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Just to cut any discussion off at the pass, charging knives while sprinting is off the table. It's not going to happen, so please don't bring it up in this thread. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2489	Posted - 2014.07.13 02:17:00 - [30] - Quote Also, back pedaling at near the same speed as walking forward is just a bad mechanic. This is how a minja feels



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