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I gotta say, I'm kind of shocked at the Amarr Logis.

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Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3519	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:04:00 - [1] - Quote You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3672	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:08:00 - [2] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! You are correct. I choose my #$%#@ sidearm! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11737	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:10:00 - [3] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Why Logistics even have offensive options is beyond me...... "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3672	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:10:00 - [4] - Quote Also: We really should get an extra low slot just like the Assault did to make sense from a race perspective. Amarr are armor tankers, why do we have so few lows? The loss of the equip slot is enough to compensate for the sidearm. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1004	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:11:00 - [5] - Quote I'd rather nothing changed. They already ****** over equipment. Can't wait until my semi-useless brick of a logi suit become completely useless! Stands on STD nanohive Pop Cool. Only got a clip and a flux. Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:12:00 - [6] - Quote I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1004	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:14:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:15:00 - [8] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1004	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:18:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3673	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:21:00 - [10] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:22:00 - [11] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1626	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:25:00 - [12] - Quote FCK THE EXTRA EQUIP FCK THE EXTRA MODULE I WANT MAH F*CKING SIDEARM... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV Amarr Logi without a sidearm IS NOT AN AMARR LOGI!
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4069	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:26:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. It's what made it different! The description described the amarr logi as a combat oriented support suit Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 38	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:26:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. do you mean giving amarr logi a sidearm over the other logis? why is that a stupid idea? clearly, every race in new eden is distinct from the other. why would their battle philosophy be the same? I would love to see more diversity among the suits. Let Amarr keep their sidearms. --_--
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1005	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:28:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. I've already read it, and if suits were to the extent you've said, it'd be a big problem but I still see the sidearm as nothing more than a cool little perk for using the worse in every way then Gallente suit. Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:32:00 - [16] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. It's what made it different! The description described the amarr logi as a combat oriented support suit Descriptions change all the time though as well as roles. I dont expect amarrians to have the drop uplink bonus forever a year form now I expect to see amarr equipment bonuses instead after races start to come out with thier own solutions to sisues. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3675	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:32:00 - [17] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. I've already read it, and if suits were to the extent you've said, it'd be a big problem but I still see the sidearm as nothing more than a cool little perk for using the worse in every way then Gallente suit. QFT (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 - [18] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. I've already read it, and if suits were to the extent you've said, it'd be a big problem but I still see the sidearm as nothing more than a cool little perk for using the worse in every way then Gallente suit. John Demonsbane wrote: What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! Was too busy being an Amarr scout. Compared to most suits, everything wreaks. I see a second grenade instead of a side arm as a perk. and everyone uses that class because of the number of grenades. Or back to the highly protested idea of a minmatar logi having two sidearms. instead of a light weapon. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 39	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 - [19] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. It's what made it different! The description described the amarr logi as a combat oriented support suit Descriptions change all the time though as well as roles. I dont expect amarrians to have the drop uplink bonus forever a year form now I expect to see amarr equipment bonuses instead after races start to come out with thier own solutions to sisues. then you should change the descriptions. last I checked amarr scouts still say they have passive armor healing.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 745	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:33:00 - [20] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! I highly doubt any of us actually want extra slots. When it comes to specialized Amarr logis you really do not want us to have an extra equipment either since it will probably just lead to more uplink spam or carrying extra equipment on top of the uplinks making orbitals that much faster. As long as we are forced to stay in our suit to maintain our bonus we should be able to fight in our suit and that trade off has been made. You may argue that other logis also must stay in their suit to get their bonus but look at what they get. Minmatar get faster rep rate keeping people around them alive longer and more able to fight. Gallente get a scan bonus making everything around them more visible and easier to fight off. Caldari get more ammo and/or armor reps for their self and those around them. Amarr gets people spawning in faster. This does little to help the position of the logi which is where the sidearm comes in. Having a sidearm makes us more able to defend our self while we are forced to stay in our suit to provide our bonus to the team. We pay for this trade off by being able to tank less and carrying less equipment which is perfectly balanced. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1626	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:38:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. I've already read it, and if suits were to the extent you've said, it'd be a big problem but I still see the sidearm as nothing more than a cool little perk for using the worse in every way then Gallente suit. John Demonsbane wrote: What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! Was too busy being an Amarr scout. Compared to most suits, everything wreaks. I see a second grenade instead of a side arm as a perk. and everyone uses that class because of the number of grenades. Or back to the highly protested idea of a minmatar logi having two sidearms. instead of a light weapon. they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV Amarr Logi without a sidearm IS NOT AN AMARR LOGI!
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 40	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:40:00 - [22] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. I've already read it, and if suits were to the extent you've said, it'd be a big problem but I still see the sidearm as nothing more than a cool little perk for using the worse in every way then Gallente suit. John Demonsbane wrote: What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! Was too busy being an Amarr scout. Compared to most suits, everything wreaks. I see a second grenade instead of a side arm as a perk. and everyone uses that class because of the number of grenades. Or back to the highly protested idea of a minmatar logi having two sidearms. instead of a light weapon. they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15842	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:41:00 - [23] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... Congratulations for failing to see the point. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15842	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:43:00 - [24] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O Dual grenades is a behavior not in the game yet. Would require making grenade slot 2 a thing in the client as we only have one grenade slot currently. SDE makes this evident. Second aspect of this is the UI and control; How do I swap a grenade? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11737	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:43:00 - [25] - Quote Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15842	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:45:00 - [26] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? AMARR HAVS will not feature a large turret but instead 4 small turrets. Minmatar will feature 2 large turrets but no small turrets. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3520	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:45:00 - [27] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Deal. I choose my #$%#@ sidearm! I'm fine with that. Just get the other Amarr Logis to lock in and say "Screw the extra slot, let me keep the sidearm!" "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 40	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:46:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O Dual grenades is a behavior not in the game yet. Would require making grenade slot 2 a thing in the client as we only have one grenade slot currently. SDE makes this evident. Second aspect of this is the UI and control; How do I swap a grenade? oh, ok. I guess that makes sense. so what are a the things that CAN be changed without needing a client update?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11737	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:46:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? AMARR HAVS will not feature a large turret but instead 4 small turrets. Minmatar will feature 2 large turrets but no small turrets. * Attempts to backhand IWS but breaks down in tears realise CCP will **** over the Amarr HAV "STOP LYING! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15843	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:49:00 - [30] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O Dual grenades is a behavior not in the game yet. Would require making grenade slot 2 a thing in the client as we only have one grenade slot currently. SDE makes this evident. Second aspect of this is the UI and control; How do I swap a grenade? oh, ok. I guess that makes sense. so what are a the things that CAN be changed without needing a client update? the list of that is still not fully explored hence the little sections ccp rattati has put out in the charlie narrative. We know Range can now be altered without a client update (was not before) Damage Types Natural Resistances is a case by case basis it seems still. New types of items with altered stands from the original lots of things too many to list. it may be much easier to list things not changeable without client IE new guns. sounds, music, map sockets and unpublished behaviors (ie the more unique it feels the less likely its something tweakable a possible case example the remote stickies) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1627	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:50:00 - [31] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... Congratulations for failing to see the point. the point is CCP wants to castrate the Amarr Logi and I don't intend to stand idly by and watch it happen... you ever have to desperately hold off enemies while your team/squad spawns in on your uplinks? Think you could do it without a sidearm??? thought not... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV Amarr Logi without a sidearm IS NOT AN AMARR LOGI!
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 139	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:53:00 - [32] - Quote dude they are flippin fine as is. all logi's are! (except cal logi but you can read why i say that in the hot fix thread)
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 40	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:54:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O Dual grenades is a behavior not in the game yet. Would require making grenade slot 2 a thing in the client as we only have one grenade slot currently. SDE makes this evident. Second aspect of this is the UI and control; How do I swap a grenade? oh, ok. I guess that makes sense. so what are a the things that CAN be changed without needing a client update? the list of that is still not fully explored hence the little sections ccp rattati has put out in the charlie narrative. We know Range can now be altered without a client update (was not before) Damage Types Natural Resistances is a case by case basis it seems still. New types of items with altered stands from the original lots of things too many to list. more vanity suits perhaps? (^_~ ) anyways, so as not to derail the thread... is there a reason for side-arms to be removed from the amarr logi that would make sense? I'm not talking about making it more in line with the other logi suits, I've read some good arguments on why they should keep their side arms. But what is your reasoning behind it? do you see some sort of unfair advantage that is apparent on the dev side of the game?
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1627	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:54:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? I will champion ALL Amarr tech as I a man of the empire through and through Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV Amarr Logi without a sidearm IS NOT AN AMARR LOGI!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3535	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:11:00 - [35] - Quote IWS you just fail to see none of us give a flying donkey's ass about an extra slot. Before the dropsuit respec I never even once said "hmm I wish my Amarr logi had more equipment that I won't use" because the three equipment I had keep my team alive and well (rep, nanite, spawn). Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3676	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:12:00 - [36] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? I will champion ALL Amarr tech as I a man of the empire through and through So will I, but I will definitely b!tch about the Amarr logi the most. You can put me there instead if you like True, lol. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15843	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:15:00 - [37] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... Congratulations for failing to see the point. the point is CCP wants to castrate the Amarr Logi and I don't intend to stand idly by and watch it happen... you ever have to desperately hold off enemies while your team/squad spawns in on your uplinks? Think you could do it without a sidearm??? thought not... Actually I have; pretend to hold a position of importance draws quite a bit of ire and constantly falling back when proper works out to a good degree on a light weapon reliant class. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15843	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:16:00 - [38] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: IWS you just fail to see none of us give a flying donkey's ass about an extra slot. Before the dropsuit respec I never even once said "hmm I wish my Amarr logi had more equipment that I won't use" because the three equipment I had keep my team alive and well (rep, nanite, spawn). Im always running out of equipment and ammo. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 745	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:19:00 - [39] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: True Adamance wrote: Lol we are a a bunch of whiny gitz aren't we...... Me- Amarr HAV Aisha- Amarr Scout Aero- Amarr Commando Vithar- Amarr Logi? I will champion ALL Amarr tech as I a man of the empire through and through So will I, but I will definitely b!tch about the Amarr logi the most. You can put me there instead if you like True, lol. As someone who is level 5 in Amarr Sentinel, Logi, and Assault I will continue my quest for all of them as long as I am playing. Having the Amarr logi ruined will alter my playstyle in many ways and I can not say for sure how much time I am willing to invest in changing my game. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3536	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:21:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: IWS you just fail to see none of us give a flying donkey's ass about an extra slot. Before the dropsuit respec I never even once said "hmm I wish my Amarr logi had more equipment that I won't use" because the three equipment I had keep my team alive and well (rep, nanite, spawn). Im always running out of equipment and ammo. points to side-arm love it, praise it, kill with it! Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic

Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2285	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:21:00 - [41] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. It's what made it different! The description described the amarr logi as a combat oriented support suit Descriptions change all the time though as well as roles. I dont expect amarrians to have the drop uplink bonus forever a year form now I expect to see amarr equipment bonuses instead after races start to come out with thier own solutions to sisues. then you should change the descriptions. last I checked amarr scouts still say they have passive armor healing. Woot. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1010	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:57:00 - [42] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: they CAN'T give us a second grenade slot without a client side update which will never happen so what you are saying is FCK Amarr logis so I will respond with an equally heart felt FCK YOU too... CCP was never entirely clear with most of the community about what a "client-side" update is. To my knowledge with speaking with a couple devs, their main gripe is having to repack assets, which is what causes big 500-900 MB updates. Depending on their infrastructure, it's entirely possible to make multiple grenades on one fitting work without repacking assets. Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 725	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:21:00 - [43] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? then imagine if they took away the DD it wouldnt be worth you having. and you dont see the issue with taking a light weapon away from a gall mando or a grenade slot from an assualt? oh boy.... its hardly a need is it? will people die without it? the point is we skilled into the amarr logi for that sidearm and gave up that equipment slot. no one wanted nor asked for this change.
Yeeeuuuupppp uptown456 Dark Taboo 419	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:11:00 - [44] - Quote They shouldn't have had the side arm in the first place. Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1630	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:16:00 - [45] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: They shouldn't have had the side arm in the first place. WHY THE FCK NOT??! Amarr logi is a combat logi not suck a heavy's dck logi you want that get a fagmatar logi.... we lay down our lives defending your ability to get fast spawns and people wanna make it even harder fck that sht... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV Amarr Logi without a sidearm IS NOT AN AMARR LOGI!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15844	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:22:00 - [46] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: I thought changing stats, numbers, modules and slots were some of the few things that they COULD change without a client update. o_O Dual grenades is a behavior not in the game yet. Would require making grenade slot 2 a thing in the client as we only have one grenade slot currently. SDE makes this evident. Second aspect of this is the UI and control; How do I swap a grenade? oh, ok. I guess that makes sense. so what are a the things that CAN be changed without needing a client update? the list of that is still not fully explored hence the little sections ccp rattati has put out in the charlie narrative. We know Range can now be altered without a client update (was not before) Damage Types Natural Resistances is a case by case basis it seems still. New types of items with altered stands from the original lots of things too many to list. more vanity suits perhaps? (^_~ ) anyways, so as not to derail the thread... is there a reason for side-arms to be removed from the amarr logi that would make sense? I'm not talking about making it more in line with the other logi suits, I've read some good arguments on why they should keep their side arms. But what is your reasoning behind it? do you see some sort of unfair advantage that is apparent on the dev side of the game? I did a couple of exercises including intention role, purpose, function environment, past faults, current analysis and future complications.Then ground zero design thrown in with the same exercise applied to it. Which is why all the other examples of the why is the amarr logi the sole anomaly in the entire game like this? If the game was striving for this level of uniqueness then it would serve a far greater purpose to have every race and class justifyingly as unique creating a myriad range of 40 classes rivaling warframes 24 even. But we don't we have 12 classes 13 if you include the amarr logi. So walking through some portions of the exercise. Intention Role Exercise Why Logistics? What makes it Amarr stats wise? Who do I imagine using the Amarr Logi? How are they going to use the Amarr Logi? What does the Amarr logi need to do for that desired goal? +Why^5? Each answer until satisfactory. Purpose Exercise What if / then this? Function Environment What does the physical environment have to do with it? What does the other player have to do with it? what does the allied player have to do with it? What does the hostile player have to do with it? How does it change the game? How does it change the game mode? Where does the emotional use have to do with it? Where does the victimization feel? Past Faults Who Designed the original Amarr Logi? What was their original goal and reasons? Technical Limitation? Content Limitation? Emotional Limitation? Economy Limitation? What issues have this or similar items caused direct in the past? What issues have this or similar items caused indirect in the past? What issues have this or similar items direct solved in the past? What issues have this or similar items indirect solved in the past? Consistent Shortfalls? Consistent Strengths? Alignment to role, environment, function and intention results? Current analysis What is the current joy with the item? What is the current item's influence on the game's joy? What is the current item's influence on other players joy? What is the current item's influence on the user's joy? What is the current strife with the item? What is the current item's influence on the game's strife? What is the current item's influence on player's strife? What is the current item's influence on user strife? Are there similar items to this in influence or role? Is this item superior or inferior to it directly? Is this item superior or inferior to it emotionally? Is this item superior or inferior to it skillfully? What is this item teaching new players? Future Complications What new features would disturb this item? What new items would disturb this item? What evolution can this item take? What future roles can be explored with this item in upcoming environments? Consequences leaving as is? Zero Day integration Remove previous item from history; and try to reintroduce it as is now. This of course is a sample of the exercise. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 274	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:29:00 - [47] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! You need to read this. This guy spent his time making a guide for Logistics players. I will say that I have spec into every role possible up to advance with proto in Minmatar Logistics. Before asking to nerf logistics how about trying them out first and do it according to the guide that I linked why ccp?
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2028	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:14:00 - [48] - Quote Damned forum jump. The Amarr Logi is NO different than the Light Frame. I agree ENTIRELY with IWS, things change, things are rebalanced. If we followed your logic, then the Amarr HAV would have 2 Large turrets, and the Minmatar Hav would have 4 smalls. It makes no sense to be introducijg 'hybrid' roles when that race already is lacking in the specialization. Why do people Multi-Racially spec scouts? Because one race's scout is COMPLETELY inferior at even mimickin the others' role. People multi-racially spec logis as well, because 'gotta have that rep tool bonus' and then 'need those functioning Nanohives' and THEN 'need a working scanner' What ever happened to each race being able to rely ENTIRELY on themselves? Do we see Amarr logistics ships flying in a Caldari FW space fight? Probly not. Do we see Minmatwr scout frigates being ABSOLUTELY useless in terms of, well reconning? Is that Min ships' entire existence rendered useless via. caldari hunter? General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11743	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:19:00 - [49] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: They shouldn't have had the side arm in the first place. WHY THE FCK NOT??! Amarr logi is a combat logi not suck a heavy's dck logi you want that get a fagmatar logi.... we lay down our lives defending your ability to get fast spawns and people wanna make it even harder fck that sht... Hmmmmmm you see when you compare the Amarr Logi to an Inquisitor hull..... the Amarr logi really should be a "suck a heavies ***"..... kind of like all Logistics really should be. I mean Logi are the back bone of any fleet.....you can't bloody win without them and once you smash through and enemy fleets Logi they are done for. In Dust Logis are assaults who want more module and equipment slots with the only down side being a lack of side arm.....either that or they become Sir Spammalot and ignore their actual role. Ensuring other mercenaries endure fights and stay alive...... Its primarily because their bonuses don't reinforce the role that this happens. "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon*
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1685	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:32:00 - [50] - Quote I find it odd that A-logis say they are useless without a side arm, while every other race says "im doing fine with my light weapon" logistics is a support class, not an assault class, i suggest they run amarr assault if they want to run with two weapons.

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3539	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:34:00 - [51] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I find it odd that A-logis say they are useless without a side arm, while every other race says "im doing fine with my light weapon" logistics is a support class, not an assault class, i suggest they run amarr assault if they want to run with two weapons. Why change what isn't broken. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4137	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:12:00 - [52] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. Great. You can't honestly tell us our sidearm slot is OP, and we want to keep it. If it sucks then you should be happy because it means less balancing! I'm going to throw a tantrum if it gets removed. Well, more of one. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 748	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:20:00 - [53] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. Great. You can't honestly tell us our sidearm slot is OP, and we want to keep it. If it sucks then you should be happy because it means less balancing! I'm going to throw a tantrum if it gets removed. Well, more of one. It is obvious from IWS persistent pedaling of the idea that our side arm is getting removed. I am only questioning what my response is going to be. On one hand I am glad to see them working to balance things but seeing balancing by making everything as close to the same as possible even if it means breaking the ground work that was originally laid is just a flash back to CCPs band aid mentality. This is just a look back at what lead to the amazing blunder that was fanfest and the start of me going from a huge supporter of this game monetarily to none at all. IWS I hope you win CPM again, atleast CCP has their strings tied so tight that we can see from your actions what they plan on doing. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Mortedeamor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1799	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:36:00 - [54] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! yeah i choose for ccp to leave my ***** logi alone..its bloody perfect and they are ruining it how about this ccp leave it the alone...leave it with 1 less slot leave it with a sidearm and with one less equipment..set it down walk the away..and dont ever look backk.. unless theres a ***** reason. a logi is fine..you wanna change the other logis/...and buff them...fine do it leave a-logi out of it
Mortedeamor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1799	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:38:00 - [55] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. Great. You can't honestly tell us our sidearm slot is OP, and we want to keep it. If it sucks then you should be happy because it means less balancing! I'm going to throw a tantrum if it gets removed. Well, more of one. It is obvious from IWS persistent pedaling of the idea that our side arm is getting removed. I am only questioning what my response is going to be. On one hand I am glad to see them working to balance things but seeing balancing by making everything as close to the same as possible even if it means breaking the ground work that was originally laid is just a flash back to CCPs band aid mentality. This is just a look back at what lead to the amazing blunder that was fanfest and the start of me going from a huge supporter of this game monetarily to none at all. IWS I hope you win CPM again, atleast CCP has their strings tied so tight that we can see from your actions what they plan on doing. personally this announcement rekilled whatever kept me going in this game....i though i was done after fanfest..i left for months came back and bravo was just so much better they made so much better..and now this...complete 180 back to ruining the game ..nice i swear i think they are doing it on purpose no one can be this thickheaded... so much for dust getting better
Scar Scrilla Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 277	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:51:00 - [56] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. Same here. As the suit's description says: "It's also the only logistc suit to have a sidearm". Why the hell would you change that? You better see to the suit's droplink skill to work properly ... "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" "Go and hack the letter(s)" - UN1TE
Mortedeamor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1802	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:01:00 - [57] - Quote Scar Scrilla wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. Same here. As the suit's description says: "It's also the only logistc suit to have a sidearm". Why the hell would you change that? You better see to the suit's droplink skill to work properly ... its the only reason i got one as well..i actually used a minmatar suit for links before the other logi patch. i wanna respec of my logi suit all my logi gear except nanos which i would have gotten for assault anyway and a respec of my sidearms except one of my choosing as i am specced into sidearms solely for that suit... i like running dual sidearms on a logi because it can have more fitting that way..a few of my rigs require 2 sidearms over 1 light 1 sidearm these changes are not needed these changes are stupid but apparently our cpm likes them so hey they most be great and perfect for the game.. even though our cpm never plays and sucks ass at dust..repeatedly give the worst input whoever came up this idea of taking logi versatility away..should be taken out and shot..along with whoever suggested ccp **** with logis////instead of assaults for this hotfix

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8380	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:22:00 - [58] - Quote Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 68	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:23:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Yea thats cool I like this because we can still go to something when our SCR are about to overheat
Mortedeamor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1803	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:30:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? no, no new logis...leave the amar logi alone leave it with 3 equip and 1 less slot and a sidearm advantage... it doesnt ruin anything...if your an assault and you get **** up by the amar logi your a *** scrub period if your an amar assault and you get owned ina duel by an amar logi your a ***** scrub...of that logi is just that much better than you. why do you wanna fuckin do this no one asked for this it fixes no problem... what issue does the amar logi have..that makes it need this? i say the amar logi functions 100% perfectly within its role... you wanna equalize the logis///all i hear is you wanna take away more versatility...what disadvantage does the amar logi put the other logis at right now? because the amar logi isnt ata disadvantage.. i dont know what issue yall are trying to balance with these absurd changes but this isnt the way to do it..you should put this issue on the threads for discussion. so we could have told this isnt the way to do it...and i really hope unlike past times..you pull your heads out of your asses when you public outcry and rethink this stupid idea. you know im trying to be polite here ive said what i have to say..yall where making great progress..you brought me back after fanfest...and now your taking a step backwards...stop it rethink this open it for discussion.... let us talk about it why are you doing this? what is this supposed to fix? what imbalance is this fixing?

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2402	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:37:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Good idea We will probably never see this.... PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
Sound vvave Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:39:00 - [62] - Quote no just no i specifically chose the amar logi because it had the side arm it allows me to kill ppl and help my team and if i happen to run outta ammo killing 2+ people i don't insta die due to running outta bullets i have been wanting an extra or high or low slot but if they take my sidearm to add anything i will chose the sidearm every single time that thing has saved my life countless times pls ccp don't do it u nerf my blaster tank into the ground 8 mill sp ruined pls dont **** up the rest of my sp if they get rid of the sidearm i believe ill just have to stop playing the game i have tried going back to my min log alt but cant play it due to the fact there have been so many times killed one person with my assault combat rifle and died to some militia guy due to the fact i cant switch to my sidearm pls ccp don't do this edit if u look at the amar logi its actually has one less high and low slot compared to the rest of the logi's which have 8 total slots while amar logi has 7 and has an extra less equip slot so it has 2 less slots so it loses 2 slots to gain the side arm pls just leave it alone
Jack Boost Zarena Family 411	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:40:00 - [63] - Quote - I'm against 'flat' everything. Even in eve, every factions have some difference/speciality .. not only ship shape. Ammar seams to be slow,heave.. and armed to the teeth. - At last seccond 'tier' of logi seams to be interesting. Skilling to logis give little sidepath to be more closed to assaults. Not much time left...
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2449	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:30:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I'd be in favor of this. I'd propose that the regen/delay for shield would be lower than assaults, and that stamina pool/regen would be the thing that would also be looked at.
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 289	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:33:00 - [65] - Quote There is nothing drastically bad about the Amarr logi losing it's sidearm. Sure it was unique as a logi, but it was biased towards being used as a slayer suit. As long as they equalise the slots, and make logi progression equipment focused. If we get 3/4/5 equipment slots at std/adv/proto, that would be better. BUT, don't nerf the logi speed. That makes no sense, if anything logistics needs to be the second fastest suit after scouts. Logis need to keep up with their teammates and need more manoeuvrability for their survival. Desperate attempt to get BPOs
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3686	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:37:00 - [66] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! You need to read this. This guy spent his time making a guide for Logistics players. I will say that I have spec into every role possible up to advance with proto in Minmatar Logistics. Before asking to nerf logistics how about trying them out first and do it according to the guide that I linked Exactly. IWS and Rattati, I will give a nice simple explanation for why the Amarr logi's role is suited for a sidearm and others are not. As RedBleach said, great for solo operations. Why is that important? It's a tacticians suit. (If you click the link in my signature, you will see that I have put some thought into the matter and am not just throwing it up on the fly. ) Let's use the minmatar logi as an example. It has a bonus to rep tools. Useless if nobody is around, great if you are running with the pack. In contrast, the Amarr logis bonus is arguably the opposite. At the very least, it is not appreciably enhanced by others being around. What's the better place for an uplink? An area where 5 people already are, or somewhere off on the flank to create a rally point or new attacking front? Obviously the latter. Would it be better out in the open or more hidden? Again, the latter. So in this case, which of the 2 logi suits, if they are fulfilling their primary role (as designated by their bonus) is more likely to find itself on a lone wolf operation (and thus be in greater need of a sidearms to defend itself)? If you said Amarr, you are correct. So, based on its bonus there is a perfectly logical non-slayer reason for the sidearm to exist. In addition, none of the elite laser weapon slayer types do their thing in the Amarr logi suit. They use the assault or commando because they actually have a bonus that works! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3087	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:50:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete.
HIGH LL 96ANTS 0	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:22:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Why do you want to equalize?
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 274	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:29:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I'm down with that. This would be cool. Will there be other type-II for the other suits like scouts, assaults (please buff assaults), and etc? why ccp?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3689	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:42:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? More variety is good, logibro. Dust has been hamstrung by a lack of it for most of its existence. And again, nobody ever complained about the suit being spammed as a killer bee! I don't recall Nyain San running whole teams of them. When's the last time anyone saw someone like Tiberius, Arkena, or Aisha Ctarl (when he still played) using an Amarr logi as their slayer suit? Never! They use assaults (or commandos), because, unlike everyone else, the Amarr assault was given a bonus that actually facilitates it's role! (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Grobda Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 2	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:43:00 - [71] - Quote Meh. Spoil the amarr logi, make everything generic. /Sigh. All the problems that COULD be fixed and yet you fiddle with stuff that is fine. I've played Amarr Caldari and Minmatar logi at pro and Gallente at advanced; having a sidearm is a compromise vs equip/slots, but its one I chose to make. Unmake that choice and I'd want my SP back.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2238	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:53:00 - [72] - Quote First off, I read nothing about an extra module slot. So I see no reason to bring that up. Though personally, the Assault just got it and is now on par with the Gallente assault, so I don't see the reason why we shouldn't get an extra module. Second, I'll take my sidearm over that extra equipment any day. The one thing I really want to see CCP fix is the uplink glitches. Do that, and I don't care what you do. I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15854	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:00:00 - [73] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: IWS you just fail to see none of us give a flying donkey's ass about an extra slot. Before the dropsuit respec I never even once said "hmm I wish my Amarr logi had more equipment that I won't use" because the three equipment I had keep my team alive and well (rep, nanite, spawn). Im always running out of equipment and ammo. points to side-arm love it, praise it, kill with it! In both weapons. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 429	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:09:00 - [74] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Why Logistics even have offensive options is beyond me...... because they are the biggest target in a match.... and a true logi, set up to actually do their job isn't that defensible anyway... or do you not PC? if you do then you know that logis without a heavy to protect them is an easy kill... and an expensive one. only in pubs are they formidable on their own, but so is every other class played well by the person behind the controller.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2155	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:10:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Would love a Combat Logistics suit. Great idea. Having a specialized Logi suit or a Combat Logi suit is neat. Only problem with it... and it's rather big and the reason why Logistics suits had no sidearm to begin with. What makes the Assault special all of a sudden? What about the Assault class even is better then the logi at that point? Assault's class concept has been so lost with the addition of commandos. Trying to even find a purpose for them is hard.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 429	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:11:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? did you see zdubs post? in the Charlie thread? about giving cal logi a side arm too, since both amar and cal with their racial bonus make them combat logis? I think its a great idea.
hfderrtgvcd Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 50	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:14:00 - [77] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. Go back to my first post in this thread again then and I want you to seriously think about introducing every single class in dust 514 with these stupid nuances in weapon arrangement between every race and tell me its fine line of thinking. EQ and Weapon slots while having the weakest weight in terms of balance meta scores you have to understand that unlike normal high and low slots these slots are multipliers in their effect of the overall score. The point is you have already done this. While I agree that its a stupid mechanic, changing it now would be unfair to the players. If you really want to go through with this, its only fair that you refund any sp spent in amarr logistics.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1677	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:19:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? This still blurs the line between Logi and assault too much. There's almost no reason to use an assault if a suit like this exists. Personally, I want logistics to be a heavy frame (more like the commando) to limit its offensive effectiveness and reduce the need for numerous high and low slots.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 255	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:23:00 - [79] - Quote I skilled into Amarr logi cause i wanted the drop uplinks bonus. Since for some reason it is not being applied, I settled on the fact that because of the sidearm, I can atleast defend my uplinks for the 15 seconds it takes for my advanced links to spawn reinforcements. See the Amarr logi sidearm adds a new dimension to the game. Doing extended logistics instead of close support logistics means that each game is a big hide and seek match. Unlike most hide and seek matches though, the logi is packing a N7A Magsec. So you have to find the logi....before the logi finds you.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11345	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:24:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I would loooove Type-II suits being added back, just make sure their gains make up for their nerfs. I would also love Type-II versions of other specializations. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1265	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:04:00 - [81] - Quote Most of the changes sound great however DO NOT remove the Amarr logi sidearm. That for the longest time was its main 'selling point'. As you have stated, it has caused no issues in terms of balance. Also like someone else has said previously, running with a scrambler rifle I feel it is imperative that you have a trusty sidearm to switch to before the overheat. Removing the sidearm in my opinion also removes one of Amarrs viable weapons combos. (A scrambler by its self without any sidearm would be too limiting I feel) MY LIFE FOR AIUR! Protoss You gonna' give me orders? Terran "Cat got your tongue? Zerg Queen of Blades.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15858	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:13:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I say go for it even if it misses charlie's deadline. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
NAV HIV The Generals Anime Empire. 1877	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:27:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? The Old Caldari Assault suit had an A Series and B Series... Its a brilliant Idea. It would be only fair to people who specced into Amar Logi for the Side arms. It would also avoid all the forum drama about Logi Suit Respec and Sidearm Respec. They can then choose to use a sidearm or have an extra equipment slot.
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 79	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:28:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? how about making all isk logistic suits the same and leave the side arm logi in the loyalty store, like the side arm commando Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, make it uniquely your own........ Bruce Lee
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 431	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:01:00 - [85] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. ever play as an amar logi? or a logi at all? we are the most vulnerable merc on the field as it is, unless we set our suits up to slay.... with how slow amar already is and having one less slot than other variants that side arm provides a versatility in play style and a needed advantage in staying alive. play one for a week in PC, or at least in pubs with stacked teams and maybe you will understand better.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 145	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:02:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Dude! Logi's are near perfect except the Cal Logi. Please read the other thread that Crazy Cat Lady started. 98% of the logi community disagrees with all the suggestions except needle wp fix. The fact that here you mention your worry for the assault is just more proof that the assault class is the only class that should be worked on/fixed. my proposed fix (for starters) is to make the assault class be the only class that can use damage mods on both high and low slots.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6449	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:04:00 - [87] - Quote You'll have to excuse IWS's logic. As he doesn't even play the game anymore. see you space cowboy...
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 73	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:24:00 - [88] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: You'll have to excuse IWS's logic. As he doesn't even play the game anymore. Hahaha lol
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 750	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:25:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I do not see the need for equalizing slot numbers. This is one of the factors that must be considered along with the bonuses and other things when choosing your suit. The idea of giving all races a logi with a sidearm sounds great and terrible to me. All of the logis but the Amarr have a natural self defense mechanism through the equipment they run. This fact alone makes the sidearm a very balancing factor and you even state that it is not causing any concerns. If the assault suits are given proper bonuses and made attractive then a second tier of logi which has a sidearm will be great, until then it is just more suits for people to run aside from the assault. I feel like this is only happening as further beta testing for the suit system that has been proposed for Legion and I call shenanigans. Going down this path of cramming legion ideas into Dust without a change to the core system to make it more similar is going to leave us with a lot of crappy things. New Eden is about living with your choices once you have made them. If the consequences of a decision are going to get totally destroyed by you guys fitting in whatever you can from Legion for us to beta test then there will be few people left if/when Legion comes to light. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Sasseros 16	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:30:00 - [90] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Why Logistics even have offensive options is beyond me...... Self defense, i need something when my empty head MLT heavy that thinks hi is god with repp die =P. On topic, i dont know how a sidearm will chance a match, if him cant kill with his primary is not a sidearm that will chance something. For me they are okay, and I dont see much amarrLogis running in pubs. Please stay still, my aim suck even with the reppTool =P

Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 47	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:32:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Yeah!!! more suit variety!! can you give them different color schemes too? like, I know yellow is for logistics and blue for scouts, white for assaults and.. uhm, that other color for whatever the heck commandos are. But can you have different parts be yellow from one logi to another to differentiate them? sorry if this is something utterly useless, it's just that I tend to pick looks over functionality and I would like to see more fashion styles in dust. ^_^ but... yeah. this doesn't add anything to the game... so I understand if you don't do this. (._. ) Anyways, thanks Rattatti.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 751	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:49:00 - [92] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! I did not ever see an Amarr logi ask for an extra equipment slot before this debate was thrown at us out of left field by CCP. I choose do not touch my logi. Screwing with logis is not an excuse for making assaults work right. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 67	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:22:00 - [93] - Quote I say leave it be, unless CCP is willing to allow us to respec at least the amarr logi. I run laser rifle on my logi, and the sidearm slot being removed completely destroys my method of play with my amarr logi.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1688	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:28:00 - [94] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: i dont know what issue yall are trying to balance with these absurd changes but this isnt the way to do it..you should put this issue on the threads for discussion. so we could have told u this isnt the way to do it...and i really hope unlike past times..you pull your heads out of your asses when you see the public outcry and rethink this stupid idea. why are you doing this? what is this supposed to fix? what imbalance is this fixing? Your lack of information is evident, the reason why everyone is talking about this is because they have told us what they are planning and have opened it to feed back from the community, nothing is set in stone, just like the previous two hotfixes. Please take the time to catch up. They have said its to make it easier to balance logis rather than have this one logi with a side arm that they have to take more time to figure out. Honestly I don't think logis should have side arms, they are a support class not an assault class.
Mima Sebiestor Vengeance Unbound 1	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:52:00 - [95] - Quote I am a minmatar logi. I love it, and I will probably never branch out. If there are changes to be made, I would like to include the following. Please remove, with refund, my light weapon slot. Replace it with a single sidearm slot. I feel this would be more challenging (rewarding) and cheaper/lighter (I suppose, never reviewed sidearm cost enough to remember). I am called a slayer logi, although I have never dedicated a fit to this role (O.K. I tried it, but didn't like it). Also, don't listen to the Amarr logi, you are not their slave. If they are to be combat oriented, they should have more health, not a means to (safely) play an AV role (Swarm/MagSec). Let them be the only logi with a light weapon (no sidearm) slot, and have the rest of the logis fitted with sidearms. I think this would be fun, give more weight to the assault preference, and make the Amarr scream! They will cry for sure, which is great, just be sure to give all involved a SP refund for these changes.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1023	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:31:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Oh. My. God. Please..... Amarrica! Destiny Beta SoonGäó
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 456	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:34:00 - [97] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? I do not see the need for equalizing slot numbers. This is one of the factors that must be considered along with the bonuses and other things when choosing your suit. The idea of giving all races a logi with a sidearm sounds great and terrible to me. All of the logis but the Amarr have a natural self defense mechanism through the equipment they run. This fact alone makes the sidearm a very balancing factor and you even state that it is not causing any concerns. If the assault suits are given proper bonuses and made attractive then a second tier of logi which has a sidearm will be great, until then it is just more suits for people to run aside from the assault. If this happens, I know I will be dusting off my Proto Call Logi sniper with 5 damage mods on it. The only down side of this suit was if someone did track me down and get close, I had no means to defend myself. So I got away from it and started using a Combat Rifle instead. If I get a sidearm to protect myself should someone find me and start to come after me, there is no downside to running Sniper with my Cal Logi suit damage modded out the wazoo. SOOOOO, let the Charge/Thales Sniper + 5 Damage mods (3 complex and 2 adv due to stacking penalties) commence to start tearing up the battlefield again. OK, now that I've made that point.... For the record, I'm actually against the idea of giving all Logi's a sidearm. Let the Amarr Logi have its' niche and prevent people like me from being able to damage mod stack a Cal Logi without any real recourse/downsides to the fit. Now, can I still do the same with a Combat Rifle? Sure, but then I'm more likely to be in CQC and I need those spots for Shield enhancers/ repairers because Logis have limited HP as is. There should be a positive/negative balance. So, coming from a Cal Logi, I support the Amarrs in this discussion. Let them keep their sidearm. It keeps flavor and variety in the game, which is always a good thing. We should always have more options, not fewer. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 728	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:51:00 - [98] - Quote Come back after 4 months to see Dust is being scraped for a new game, and Anti-Logis STILL are trying to nerf the class. You think they would learn after failing to strip the main weapon from Logis for over a year. Amarr is easily the worst Logi without side-arm, an additional slot isn't doing anything to compensate for the lack of speed and PG nerf. The Drop Uplink boost is trivial compared to the sidearm.
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 145	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:19:00 - [99] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Come back after 4 months to see Dust is being scraped for a new game, and Anti-Logis STILL are trying to nerf the class. You think they would learn after failing to strip the main weapon from Logis for over a year. Amarr is easily the worst Logi without side-arm, an additional slot isn't doing anything to compensate for the lack of speed and PG nerf. The Drop Uplink boost is trivial compared to the sidearm. yea that sht is crazy. supposedly though NO ONE asked for any changes to the logi, CCP RATTI and LOGIBRO just all of sudden came with these changes out of no where, and with no real justifications btw.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3526	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:30:00 - [100] - Quote hold that wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Come back after 4 months to see Dust is being scraped for a new game, and Anti-Logis STILL are trying to nerf the class. You think they would learn after failing to strip the main weapon from Logis for over a year. Amarr is easily the worst Logi without side-arm, an additional slot isn't doing anything to compensate for the lack of speed and PG nerf. The Drop Uplink boost is trivial compared to the sidearm. yea that sht is crazy. supposedly though NO ONE asked for any changes to the logi, CCP RATTI and LOGIBRO just all of sudden came with these changes out of no where, and with no real justifications btw. Then voice and tell them you want to lose the extra slots for a sidearm! Don't just sit there! Be constructive! Tell them that 1/1 does not equal SMG! "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15875	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:48:00 - [101] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. ever play as an amar logi? or a logi at all? we are the most vulnerable merc on the field as it is, unless we set our suits up to slay.... with how slow amar already is and having one less slot than other variants that side arm provides a versatility in play style and a needed advantage in staying alive. play one for a week in PC, or at least in pubs with stacked teams and maybe you will understand better. Yes, I do play; feels like a slow useless scout suit most of the time when trying to play into its strength with inclinations to be using equipment that is more slanted for repair and restore as opposed to be used for offensive equipment usage. The strongest and best scoring use I ever felt the amarr logi was in front line support; as in repper tool and nano hives and injectors with scrambler laser rifle with sidearm unfitted to get the best gear I can shove onto it; where its tough enough to survive most glancing attempts to kill me as I keep others alive in the field of fire out of cover. At lvl 3 between the amarr assault and logi and scrambler I feel just as strong as each other offensively with the use of grenades and the main weapons; without specialization into lvl 5s the gulf in the scp's heat management is barely notable especially in the hands of people who operate the rifle in proper cadence and a management. Majority of my deaths have always been mid mag and mid heat cycles; rarely reloading; rarely empty and more commonly full mags. The only real downside is how quickly the nano hives pop when doing the front line support and that extra equipment slot would be so much more useful in this endeavour as I am always running out of equipment on many of the configurations. I cannot play into the suits strengths and its far too easy to play into its weaknesses making the suit far worse than it really is. In terms who's the better uplinker? It would be the Gallente scout; gets there faster and quicker and away without being detected and doesn't have to dedicatedly defend the spot. Far too often if I try to play the amarr logi he get caught far too often; or someone bashes the uplinks, or just as bad nobody on my effing team uses it when its prudent too. I can see why some of the guys thinks its an assault type II suit. and if you want to call me a scrub; by all means; but this is how I feel what this suit teaches to do with it; which is basically screw the bonus and play into its natural stats strengths instead. The uplink bonus feel worth it at lvl 1, lvl 2, or lvl 3. If you want to talk unique' the amarr logi offers little uniqueness in comparison to the amarr assault or amarr scout or commando. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 515	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:38:00 - [102] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? IWS, stop being a goddamned prick. You're already irrelevant, basically no one agrees with your opinions, just please, **** off. Closed Beta Vet since April 2012 The Laser Rifle- Reach Out And Burn Slaves Proud owner of basically every BPO in Dust
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1035	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:34:00 - [103] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. Well, in the EVE universe, "choices have consequences". Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
NAV HIV The Generals Anime Empire. 1879	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:51:00 - [104] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? IWS, stop being a goddamned prick. You're already irrelevant, basically no one agrees with your opinions, just please, **** off. You are asking for something impossible... I might just pick up a PC just to kick his sorry ass
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 111	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:55:00 - [105] - Quote So do i get a SP respec then since yet again my choices mean jack **** when CCP decided to break what im skilled into I skilled into Amarr Logi so i could have a side arm Now i lose the sidearm What is the point? just give ouT 100mil SP to everyone so they can skill into everything since CCP breaks it or changes it anyways Your choices mean nothing
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1463	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:21:00 - [106] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? The new suits would only work insofar as they replaced assaults. I don't see why you'd want to put work into that. What I'd like you to do to the Amarr logi is: - give it either an extra low slot or an extra equipment. Leave the sidearm where it is. This will address its present overall one slot disadvantage versus other logis (has a sidearm, but two less equipment/high/low slots at proto). - increase PG, it's almost impossible to fit links (the supposed point of the suit) at present. - make it so the bonus is actually useful in a competitive environment where you will probably die before your team spawns on your link. This means making the bonus apply so long as you're on the battlefield in an Amarr logi.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1142	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:32:00 - [107] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. Arguing that "sidearm for A-Logi is wrong because every logi suit should be similar" is as wrong as "every logi suit should have same amount of his and same amount of lows because every logi suit should be similar" Sidearm added some flavour and functionality plus some combinations otherwise unreachable without being OP. Seriously, who honestly thinks that A-Logi is 'too assaulty' and 'too powerful' because they have sidearm? Sidearm for logi only gives a supportive suit type an option to wield supportive weapon (like laser or MD - no matter how powerful they still need sidearm) :-S
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1142	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:38:00 - [108] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Bad analogy. No one ever questioned AOE DDs usefulness or power. They were removed because of obvious gameplay reasons. It seems people do regard sidearm as useless trash no one wants. Mr Thundergrooves point is that is has a need. Nevertheless AOE DD =/= logi sidearm. :-S
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 455	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:49:00 - [109] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. ever play as an amar logi? or a logi at all? we are the most vulnerable merc on the field as it is, unless we set our suits up to slay.... with how slow amar already is and having one less slot than other variants that side arm provides a versatility in play style and a needed advantage in staying alive. play one for a week in PC, or at least in pubs with stacked teams and maybe you will understand better. Yes, I do play; feels like a slow useless scout suit most of the time when trying to play into its strength with inclinations to be using equipment that is more slanted for repair and restore as opposed to be used for offensive equipment usage. The strongest and best scoring use I ever felt the amarr logi was in front line support; as in repper tool and nano hives and injectors with scrambler laser rifle with sidearm unfitted to get the best gear I can shove onto it; where its tough enough to survive most glancing attempts to kill me as I keep others alive in the field of fire out of cover. At lvl 3 between the amarr assault and logi and scrambler I feel just as strong as each other offensively with the use of grenades and the main weapons; without specialization into lvl 5s the gulf in the scp's heat management is barely notable especially in the hands of people who operate the rifle in proper cadence and a management. Majority of my deaths have always been mid mag and mid heat cycles; rarely reloading; rarely empty and more commonly full mags. The only real downside is how quickly the nano hives pop when doing the front line support and that extra equipment slot would be so much more useful in this endeavour as I am always running out of equipment on many of the configurations. I cannot play into the suits strengths and its far too easy to play into its weaknesses making the suit far worse than it really is. In terms who's the better uplinker? It would be the Gallente scout; gets there faster and quicker and away without being detected and doesn't have to dedicatedly defend the spot. Far too often if I try to play the amarr logi he get caught far too often; or someone bashes the uplinks, or just as bad nobody on my effing team uses it when its prudent too. I can see why some of the guys thinks its an assault type II suit. and if you want to call me a scrub; by all means; but this is how I feel what this suit teaches to do with it; which is basically screw the bonus and play into its natural stats strengths instead. The uplink bonus feel worth it at lvl 1, lvl 2, or lvl 3. If you want to talk unique' the amarr logi offers little uniqueness in comparison to the amarr assault or amarr scout or commando. the amar logi's bonus (while lacking imo) is uplinks... so I don't get why you are using hives and reps.... you are not using the amar logi to its strengths. the A logi is slow yes, but it's job is to keep the push going by putting down links and then guarding those links ( hence the importance of a side arm.) you are slow because uplinks don't move so you don't need to keep up with them, you also have a better tank to make sure you can hold that position while your team spawns in. how ever if you want to be a mobile A logi then that's when you call out your LAV (or better yet dropship) using its speed to get you to the desired location for your links and then defending them.... the AV variant of the A logi is very usefull in securing link locations on towers while fending off any dropship that may be trying to over take you until your forge gunners spawn in... so no IWS I will not call you a scrub, but I will say that the responsibilities of the cpm have kept you from playing enough to truly understand some of the finer points of battlefield detail and strategy.
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:49:00 - [110] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Why Logistics even have offensive options is beyond me...... If you really mean that in a 16v16 environment then you should have your ability to post more words in the future revoked. If this were Eve and it was a wide open sandbox then I would agree. But really I'd only agree if they called the suits/ships Medics. Is logistic and medic interchangeable in Icelandic?

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1142	Posted - 2014.07.11 18:41:00 - [111] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I find it odd that A-logis say they are useless without a side arm, while every other race says "im doing fine with my light weapon" logistics is a support class, not an assault class, i suggest they run amarr assault if they want to run with two weapons. It might be because those ppl wanted to use laser or MD oe other supportive weapon like that. :-S
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1142	Posted - 2014.07.11 18:44:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? Uuuh Mama, nice!!!! :-S
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2033	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:14:00 - [113] - Quote Lovehow the A-Logi(read: wannabe slayer scouts) are going to ruin the possibility of even slightly EVER having a Type II suit returned, once again, just like Calscouts and their constant bitching, the whole game is going to suffer because they want to have their mediocre logistics with a sidearm, rather than have that ability introduced to all logis as a Type Ii, therefore INCREASING AVAILABLE OPTIONS BY A FACTOR OF (omg) 2! General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 132	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:30:00 - [114] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: You can't sit here and tell me that his is not a real trade off. Please, it's balance we are talking about here. You can't get a side arm+a extra slot+extra equipment. Gotta choose something here guys! Why Logistics even have offensive options is beyond me...... Really, beyond you? GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15900	Posted - 2014.07.12 03:29:00 - [115] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. ever play as an amar logi? or a logi at all? we are the most vulnerable merc on the field as it is, unless we set our suits up to slay.... with how slow amar already is and having one less slot than other variants that side arm provides a versatility in play style and a needed advantage in staying alive. play one for a week in PC, or at least in pubs with stacked teams and maybe you will understand better. Yes, I do play; feels like a slow useless scout suit most of the time when trying to play into its strength with inclinations to be using equipment that is more slanted for repair and restore as opposed to be used for offensive equipment usage. The strongest and best scoring use I ever felt the amarr logi was in front line support; as in repper tool and nano hives and injectors with scrambler laser rifle with sidearm unfitted to get the best gear I can shove onto it; where its tough enough to survive most glancing attempts to kill me as I keep others alive in the field of fire out of cover. At lvl 3 between the amarr assault and logi and scrambler I feel just as strong as each other offensively with the use of grenades and the main weapons; without specialization into lvl 5s the gulf in the scp's heat management is barely notable especially in the hands of people who operate the rifle in proper cadence and a management. Majority of my deaths have always been mid mag and mid heat cycles; rarely reloading; rarely empty and more commonly full mags. The only real downside is how quickly the nano hives pop when doing the front line support and that extra equipment slot would be so much more useful in this endeavour as I am always running out of equipment on many of the configurations. I cannot play into the suits strengths and its far too easy to play into its weaknesses making the suit far worse than it really is. In terms who's the better uplinker? It would be the Gallente scout; gets there faster and quicker and away without being detected and doesn't have to dedicatedly defend the spot. Far too often if I try to play the amarr logi he get caught far too often; or someone bashes the uplinks, or just as bad nobody on my effing team uses it when its prudent too. I can see why some of the guys thinks its an assault type II suit. and if you want to call me a scrub; by all means; but this is how I feel what this suit teaches to do with it; which is basically screw the bonus and play into its natural stats strengths instead. The uplink bonus feel worth it at lvl 1, lvl 2, or lvl 3. If you want to talk unique' the amarr logi offers little uniqueness in comparison to the amarr assault or amarr scout or commando. the amar logi's bonus (while lacking imo) is uplinks... so I don't get why you are using hives and reps.... you are not using the amar logi to its strengths. the A logi is slow yes, but it's job is to keep the push going by putting down links and then guarding those links ( hence the importance of a side arm.) you are slow because uplinks don't move so you don't need to keep up with them, you also have a better tank to make sure you can hold that position while your team spawns in. how ever if you want to be a mobile A logi then that's when you call out your LAV (or better yet dropship) using its speed to get you to the desired location for your links and then defending them.... the AV variant of the A logi is very usefull in securing link locations on towers while fending off any dropship that may be trying to over take you until your forge gunners spawn in... so no IWS I will not call you a scrub, but I will say that the responsibilities of the cpm have kept you from playing enough to truly understand some of the finer points of battlefield detail and strategy. Speaking of vehicles there is a serious issue of lack of incentive for using a MCRU there are just often too much time when a vehicle has a spawner and nobody uses it. Some of the issues surrounding the reason why though is the same exact reason why link play is generally downgraded as well. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 334	Posted - 2014.07.12 15:27:00 - [116] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! It's the waiting that gets you.... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3745	Posted - 2014.07.12 19:17:00 - [117] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Not being an EVE player, but I was under the assumption that the AOE DD was changed because it rekt everything? I just don't understand the need to change this. What? You haven't been roflstomped by the q-synced teams of Amarr logis slowly swarming around and wrecking everyone with their OP sidearms? It's the new FOTM, get with the times, dude! It's the waiting that gets you.... LOL! +1. It's like the chinese water torture, haha. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Mima Sebiestor Vengeance Unbound 3	Posted - 2014.07.12 20:24:00 - [118] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I find it odd that A-logis say they are useless without a side arm, while every other race says "im doing fine with my light weapon" logistics is a support class, not an assault class, i suggest they run amarr assault if they want to run with two weapons. It might be because those ppl wanted to use laser or MD oe other supportive weapon like that. A supportive weapon; this does not exist in Dust. If it did, (let's just say it does) it would be held by every merc on the battlefield as they would be supporting their team by getting kills/dealing damage. So now, damage is a support function. Everyone is supporting the team, and the supporters of supporters need a new name... In theory, a supportive weapon would not be fatal. It would be supportive because it helps the team to finish the job with their weapons. It could scan, track, slow, blind, or cause any other type of debilitating effect. The scanner is currently the closest thing we have to a supportive weapon. I guess we could call the rep tool a rep gun as well. The Amarr logi is too offensive, as it can fill both anti-infantry and AV roles well. Roles that should be fitted with less equipment available. This support suit also holds a significant combat advantage in 1 on 1 vs. all other support suits. Now, I realize that the sidearm is/was probably the single greatest determinant is selecting the Amarr logi path. The current bonuses to this suit would also suggest that without the sidearm, the suit would be rarely seen on the battlefield. I say call it what it is. Leave it as a combat suit, and remove the bonus to equipment weight. If this does not work, and they call for the support bonus back, they have to trade in their combat bonus (the additional weapon slot). Either way, people chose this suit while looking for the best. We will know we are on track to a balance by the level of opposing, and non-constructive feedback. Please reply with what tradeoffs you have (are willing) to sacrifice in order to maintain both, combat and support roles, in a single suit.
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 377	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:29:00 - [119] - Quote If you make a variant of every logi that has a side arm, what makes the amarr logi viable? It will be the worst of the logi choices...it's the slowest, has an uplink bonus that frankly blows except in a PC environment. Not happy Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15904	Posted - 2014.07.12 21:36:00 - [120] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm. Because over a year ago, I got the Amarr logi *because* of the sidearm and nothing more. I got a titan for its AOE DD your point? Bad analogy. No one ever questioned AOE DDs usefulness or power. They were removed because of obvious gameplay reasons. It seems people do regard sidearm as useless trash no one wants. Mr Thundergrooves point is that is has a need. Nevertheless AOE DD =/= logi sidearm. Despite how bad that analogy is; CEO Pyrex was exceptionally upset the aoe dds were removed. It still does not change the fact that there are very specific ships eve pilots train for because they offer something no other option offers and they oft feel short changed when the nerf bat looks their way. I knew plenty of pilots that trained for the Moros because of the drone bay. I knew pilots that trained Ravens because they could stack torpedo vollies. I knew pilots that trained Apocs to shove 8 auto cannons on it and 8 Gryostabs. I knew plenty of pilots that trained not only for the Machariel but all the interceptor like skills and implants and massives amounts of booster and research to make a battleship go 14km/s The list pilots who were overly fond of the things they trained expansive and rather wide in what sort of things pilots train for. The thing is we typically forget the small changes some pilots absolutely despised. It can be simple as 1 slot on a highly unpopular ship and it doesn't make headlines because its not a fotm ship and all of these changes have always been in the name of balance. So the question is what is balance? you can look at spreadsheets all day but if play behaviors mutates the stats beyond intended then; When do we consider it wrong? Am I wrong to use the amarr logi to use a medic? Should you nerf that? There are those who will oddly say yes to that. Are those who use logis to kill people wrong? Should that be nerfed? I think not; REs and Proxies and Light weapons are sufficient in that deal as well as a generous tank. Are those who use logis to uplink also wrong? Should that be nerfed? I also think not; its a valuable tool set keeping the front lines restocked. The overall major problem is though are any of these players being disenfranchised because they picked poorly? Are there other classes that does the job better than they can? And oddly enough from my point of view the latter of the two are a resounding yes; Amarr are severely under classed as a support class. Maybe its because I can't proto; maybe because I don't PC that much. Maybe uplinks themselves are broken. Maybe other players I observe feel similar to the way the logi bonuses are and don't use them often. Maybe players don't trust most uplinks I have still have a massive annoyance with public ambush uplinks because just far too often they're placed to only farm points as they're often in line of fire of the enemy. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 449	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:15:00 - [121] - Quote IWS wrote: -snip The Amarr Logi blows chunks as a suit. It's slow, squishy and has a poor slot layout. If you gave it an extra slot it'd still be slow and squishy; DU takes up huge amounts of fitting space. The only thing the suit has going for it is the sidearm slot; it's the only thing that makes it viable over other logistics suits. Without a functioning uplink bonus (and I don't consider the current bonus functional - it'd have to be much larger than it is to classify as such under the current constraints) that won't change. It is not a primary combat suit. It will always be a second-rate logistics suit. Leave it as it is so it has its own role, its own niche. Otherwise, if you're going to 'fix' it, look much deeper than simply the sidearm slot. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1154	Posted - 2014.07.13 20:33:00 - [122] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Despite how bad that analogy is; CEO Pyrex was exceptionally upset the aoe dds were removed. It still does not change the fact that there are very specific ships eve pilots train for because they offer something no other option offers and they oft feel short changed when the nerf bat looks their way. I knew plenty of pilots that trained for the Moros because of the drone bay. I knew pilots that trained Ravens because they could stack torpedo vollies. I knew pilots that trained Apocs to shove 8 auto cannons on it and 8 Gryostabs. I knew plenty of pilots that trained not only for the Machariel but all the interceptor like skills and implants and massives amounts of booster and research to make a battleship go 14km/s The list pilots who were overly fond of the things they trained expansive and rather wide in what sort of things pilots train for. The thing is we typically forget the small changes some pilots absolutely despised. It can be simple as 1 slot on a highly unpopular ship and it doesn't make headlines because its not a fotm ship and all of these changes have always been in the name of balance. So the question is what is balance? you can look at spreadsheets all day but if play behaviors mutates the stats beyond intended then; When do we consider it wrong? Am I wrong to use the amarr logi to use a medic? Should you nerf that? There are those who will oddly say yes to that. Are those who use logis to kill people wrong? Should that be nerfed? I think not; REs and Proxies and Light weapons are sufficient in that deal as well as a generous tank. Are those who use logis to uplink also wrong? Should that be nerfed? I also think not; its a valuable tool set keeping the front lines restocked. The overall major problem is though are any of these players being disenfranchised because they picked poorly? Are there other classes that does the job better than they can? And oddly enough from my point of view the latter of the two are a resounding yes; Amarr are severely under classed as a support class. Maybe its because I can't proto; maybe because I don't PC that much. Maybe uplinks themselves are broken. Maybe other players I observe feel similar to the way the logi bonuses are and don't use them often. Maybe players don't trust most uplinks I have still have a massive annoyance with public ambush uplinks because just far too often they're placed to only farm points as they're often in line of fire of the enemy. . Dude, we agree that amusing specced-in people is nowhere near as important as making right choices about gameplay design. No need to lecture me on that. I've even said that "People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change" :-S
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.14 05:45:00 - [123] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind the needs to have a side arm. Its along the same grounds as taking away minmatar grenade slots. Subbing Gallmando's second light weapon for a side arm. And giving Min logi two side arms instead of 1 light, or Cal scout 1 eq. If we had to introduce the class (under the context it never existed before) in charlie and not since the start we'd be mocking the mere stupidity of giving one class a side arm over its fellows. Because it makes it different, it adds a new flavor to the game. Why take away variety from a game that was based on variety? When you take away variety and say everything is op you get a bland game. And thats where it looks like its heading if you take away the amaar logi sidearm.Dont do it!".
Sum1ne Else 1283	Posted - 2014.07.14 23:12:00 - [124] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Alright, so to actually give proper context. This is solely about equalizing the slot numbers and equipment ability for all the logistics. The sidearm slot for Amarr logistics isn't causing any specific concerns However, I am actually open to the possibility of adding a second logistics variant (using the same skills, think the old Type-II) for all races that has an equipment slot traded for a sidearm, plus possibly a few base stat nerfs (not sure what yet, I'm just a little worried that these new logistics would crowd out actual assault suits). However, that's a fair bit of extra work. Thoughts? You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS CCP ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ZDub gets it, and im not even an Amarr Logi FFS Impressive? Longest PLC Kill - 151.8m Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0 - Assault ak.0


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