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Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2310
   |
Posted - 2014.06.23 17:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
we have been here before. I will record and post some un edtited matches for an ADS point of view, I will do the same for swarms as I have a minmater commando maxed to the limit with swarms.
Let me show you what it is like for both sides. As AV and Vehicle we need to work on this together so its fun for all of us. Neither side wants easy wins. Reading the posts in this thread I see people on both sides how want a fun game. So, lets pull back a little and try to reach the sweet spot where death makes you send a GG message to your killer.
Judge For CPM 1 youtube
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1793
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 19:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Jack Galen wrote:I pilot most of the time with an incubus (AV) or a grimsnes (infantry support).
This is the bit I don't understand:
Infantry, your suits and weapons cost about ten percent of the cost of an ADS, possibly twenty percent for all you protos, and that's for an ADV ADS, not proto. When you are having a hard time killing it, consider that; the pilot has invested huge amounts of SP and ISK, whereas a militia forge gun on a militia frame can end an ADS quite easily. I am actually very happy with AV at the moment - flying can be easy, unless the enemy work together (wait, what? :P) to take you down. When 2-3 infantry / a rail tank and a forge work together to take me out, I feel that I'm fair game.
What I don't want to see are the return of the days where I lift off and suddenly get mullered by 7 groups of unrendered swarms, 2 forge guns and a rail installation within 5 seconds, every time. :/
One other idea: why can't it be a food chain? Infantry>Tanks>dropships>infantry for example? Aren't some match ups meant to be more one-sided than others? :) My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage.
^Was going to say pretty much this.
Unless the whole other team is running basic fits, my AV fit's SMG is only going to keep me alive through a couple CQC engagements before they decide to gang up on me or I turn a corner on a heavy (or a fat taxi chases me down). All while trying to get a chance to fire a couple of volleys at you to scare you off of my teammates.
It's not like I can sit on a hill and not be noticed by every RR shithead in the vicinity, and there isn't **** I can do about anyone with at least a GEK's range. Even HMG's can kill me before I can kill them with my SMG when they come lumbering my way out in the open because of the HMG's optimal being what it is.
And as for price, at least half the time I loose 1+ suits (160,000ish ISK) before I ever even get the chance to fire on you because of the enemy's infantry. Cloaked scouts, HMG's, RE's, snipers, super-scanning Calscouts and RR roof campers might be funny little blips on your radar, but on mine they are ruining my day every single time I pull AV.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1793
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Posted - 2014.06.23 19:31:00 -
[93] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage. My AV fit (STD MinCom/ADV Swarm) costs 20,000 ISK, and while soloing a vehicle is difficult, it is not impossible for me. I realise not everyone runs Commandos, and that is fair, but even a single Swarmer is something for your average ADS pilot to be concerned about. Take a look at the other example: does your Proto heavy cost 4x that of a standard heavy, and should you not have an advantage? You have the better gun, more HP, higher bonuses and just plain more. That Proto heavy does have a significant advantage: the ADS does have a significant advantage over even the most expensive AVer, but for all of that advantage, a single AVer can drop them all the same. I know! I've been on both sides of that equation (albeit not even as expensive as you!) If a half invested AVer can take down ADSs, surely a fully invested AVer can. I don't want to say get good, but how are you approaching Swarm/ADS combat? Are you just launching at first sight? Do you wait and optimise your approach? Do you get behind it, wait til it gets lower for better shots? I still feel the Swarm has a low skill cap (ie, the difference between a poor Swarmer and a great Swarmer is not a large gap) but there are measures you can take to make your attacks more effective.
Waiting gets you dead by infantry (see my last post) or looses you the chance as the DS moves elsewhere, leaving you in an very weak AV fitting, very likely miles away from a supply depot. Getting closer gets you dead by either the pilot or the infantry the pilot is trying to steal kills from.
Yes, sometimes using strategy when the other team is terrible works wonderfully. But that only works about 30-40% of the time, the rest of the time you are throwing away suits. And when you are dropping 160,000isk per suit you don't typically want to just serve them to your opponents on a platter.
THAT is swarm launcher 101. Been running proto swarms since Replication, been Prof. 5 since Uprising 1.0, and that's how swarms HAVE to be run right now. Back when it was just AR's it wasn't a big deal since HMG range was low, but now EVERYTHING has range, EVERYONE is cloaked, and EVERYONE is gunning for the easy kill with no anti-infantry light weapon.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Lynn Beck
NoGameNoLife
1893
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 19:31:00 -
[94] - Quote
My AV fit is 230k...
Although, i am a Commando, an i have a Boundless CR.
If you dropshippers find it unreasonable that my extremely specialized suit is capable of killing you, or *gasp* at the very least deterring you, then do what every other vehicle squad does when they find me, push your Calscouts into my location, or just simply hit me with 2 missiles. I run BASE HP with regeneration mods.
Don't pull the 'my ship costs more' card either, because Isk Isn't a Balancing Factor, which was used as a reasoning AGAINST dropping tank prices for the entirety of Uprising 1.0-1.6.
Please, accept the fact you're not Godmode anymore, and take your deaths like a man(or woman).
Geebus, i die to a shotgun scout after my 2nd swarm volley like 3/10 times i try and AV.
General John Ripper
-HAM(Yum)
This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Non-Association Foster Care Office
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Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender
Proficiency V.
97
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Posted - 2014.06.23 20:17:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:My AV fit is 230k...
Although, i am a Commando, an i have a Boundless CR.
If you dropshippers find it unreasonable that my extremely specialized suit is capable of killing you, or *gasp* at the very least deterring you, then do what every other vehicle squad does when they find me, push your Calscouts into my location, or just simply hit me with 2 missiles. I run BASE HP with regeneration mods.
Don't pull the 'my ship costs more' card either, because Isk Isn't a Balancing Factor, which was used as a reasoning AGAINST dropping tank prices for the entirety of Uprising 1.0-1.6.
Please, accept the fact you're not Godmode anymore, and take your deaths like a man(or woman).
Geebus, i die to a shotgun scout after my 2nd swarm volley like 3/10 times i try and AV.
Why are you running a 230k suit? A forge suit costs me only around 30k or less, and I can do just as well with a swarm fit of the same price. At least you have the option to use effective and cheap assets, unlike pilots, who are stuck with a 323k hull. |
medomai grey
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
836
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 21:02:00 -
[96] - Quote
Why do people want to give my python more survivability? I mean, sure I hate having to fit heavy shield extenders meant for tanks on my ADS. But why in the Maker's name would you want to give me even more survivability?
PS: You incubus pilots complaining that your ADS is too squishy with the corrected swarm damage efficiencies and heavy armor repair nerf have brought a smile to my face. On behalf of all python pilots: welcome to our world, a world were there are pretty explosions in the sky, and that explosion is you. 
Medium frame EHP is not medium
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2899
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Now I'm going to use my experience from before hotfix Alpha, so please be patient.
However based on what Rattatai has said my experience is still just as valid.
[Snip]
1) Improve Swarm Launchers with greater acceleration and top speed, however also slightly take away there high tracking my increasing the turning circle. (If this can be done so it only comes into effect against aerial vehicles all the better.
2) Give pilots an early warning system, something that allows them to know when they are being spiked by enemy ground troops. For an example see ACE COMBAT, give a caution when you are being locked on or aimed at by a swarm launcher or forge gun and give a 'parking sensor' beep once a volley is fired at you.
3) Decrease the low-end acceleration of dropships, so they cannot just use afterburners to effectively teleport to the flight ceiling. For clarification the first 20 Kmph of acceleration should be slower than the rest of the acceleration, incidently this will also allow for finer control of dropships at lower speeds. Pre-Hotfix Alpha evidence is most certainly not relevant any longer. As an L3 MinCom/L3 Swarm user also, I know full well that I can solo an even vaguely incautious ADS. And please note that that is not a 10% damage buff, I am not a fully levelled MinCom. Quite simply, Bravo has made Swarmers much more potent. This is perfectly legitimate and reasonable. What is not is the issues with rendering. Invisible swarms are not only infuriating but incredibly unbalanced. I have no issues with the power of Swarms right now, the only thing I want is to actually see them when I'm looking right at them. Anecdote: flying my Incubus, testing the blasters with a side gunner. Both of us shooting at a Swarmer that my gunner called out as a target before it could launch: still got hit by two volleys without seeing any missiles...even though both me and my gunner were actively engaged in trying to shoot said Swarmer. 1) I could agree to that. Caveat rendering, obviously. 2) I could live without it, if rendering is fixed, but I wouldn't say no. I would accept this in line with a slightly Afterburner nerf. 3) Again, I can see this being reasonable. Caveat rendering, blah blah.
Well you will be glad to know I've been on recently, AV is getting better.
However compared to 1.7 SL aren't any better, what it is different however is vehicle module nerfs that make AV weapons slightly stronger.
The only other thing I might suggest is to increase fitting power on dropships so they can fit 2 heavy modules as opposed to one. Pair this with giving passive skills in the vehicle upgrades tree amd it will all be dandy.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
497
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Posted - 2014.06.23 22:20:00 -
[98] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Waiting gets you dead by infantry (see my last post) or looses you the chance as the DS moves elsewhere, leaving you in an very weak AV fitting, very likely miles away from a supply depot. Getting closer gets you dead by either the pilot or the infantry the pilot is trying to steal kills from.
Yes, sometimes using strategy when the other team is terrible works wonderfully. But that only works about 30-40% of the time, the rest of the time you are throwing away suits. And when you are dropping 160,000isk per suit you don't typically want to just serve them to your opponents on a platter.
THAT is swarm launcher 101. Been running proto swarms since Replication, been Prof. 5 since Uprising 1.0, and that's how swarms HAVE to be run right now. Back when it was just AR's it wasn't a big deal since HMG range was low, but now EVERYTHING has range, EVERYONE is cloaked, and EVERYONE is gunning for the easy kill with no anti-infantry light weapon.
Right...so you're complaining about losing tons of ISK, when you can actually effectively perform AV duty with lower level AV weapons. An ADV Swarm can actually deter dropships and even semi incautious ones get shot down. You don't need to run 100% Proto 100% of the time to shoot something down.
Just because you have chosen to endanger your expensive suits, doesn't mean that you have to. |
Beld Errmon
1702
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
awww poor AV guys you can only defend yourself with a side arm your so hard done by, please tell me more about how hard life is for you while I ponder all the ways I lose dropships.
Take off too quick hit RDV and die, take off get killed by RDV bringing in some scrubs LAV, get shot by own teams explosive weapons and crash into random nearby object and die... I could go on but I think a full list should be saved for its own amusing thread.
Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2899
|
Posted - 2014.06.23 23:32:00 -
[100] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:awww poor AV guys you can only defend yourself with a side arm your so hard done by, please tell me more about how hard life is for you while I ponder all the ways I lose dropships.
Take off too quick hit RDV and die, take off get killed by RDV bringing in some scrubs LAV, get shot by own teams explosive weapons and crash into random nearby object and die... I could go on but I think a full list should be saved for its own amusing thread.
1) Don't take of so quickly
2) Don't take of so quickly
3) I'm not even mad, that's amazing
Im not the greatest pilot in Dropship history but how you achieve 3 is beyond my comprehension.
How are you so close that ground based explosives are causing you to crash? Or are you flying into Swarms and believe they shouldn't encroach on your airspace?
Yes Dropshiping is expensive, mthat doesn't mean your don't die. We spent h8wever long having this talk with tankers, I shouldn't expect to have to have it with other dropship pilots as well.
Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56
Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
896
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 02:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
I think the problem dropship pilots are having have less to do with AV and more to do with prices and collision damage. The problem AV has now has less to do with dropships and more to do with infantry killing us. I am more or less happy with where we are at but I want cheaper dropships to eliminate the ISK argument.
When both sides feel slightly cheated then it is a good sign things are close.
Because, that's why.
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
896
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV.
Because, that's why.
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ACT1ON BASTARD
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2014.06.24 02:54:00 -
[103] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV.
Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them. |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender
Proficiency V.
97
|
Posted - 2014.06.24 17:09:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:I think the problem dropship pilots are having have less to do with AV and more to do with prices and collision damage. The problem AV has now has less to do with dropships and more to do with infantry killing us. I am more or less happy with where we are at but I want cheaper dropships to eliminate the ISK argument.
When both sides feel slightly cheated then it is a good sign things are close.
And dropships pilots can't do anything when 2-3 swarms are covering the center of the map, which is likely where 2-3 objectives are in skirmish, or the center point in domination, making pilots useless, except for picking off snipere that are hopefully not way back into the redline. That's when you either wait for someone to deal with the swarmers, or have a squad that also does infantry to take them out. I do the same for whenever someone else is running some type of vehicle, whenever I'm running my sentinel, scout, commando, or logi. The most I can do as a pilot is recon, which I do all the time anyway, even if there is little AV or vehicle hinderance to where I can do some killing of my own. |
bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
283
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 03:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Jack Galen wrote:I pilot most of the time with an incubus (AV) or a grimsnes (infantry support).
This is the bit I don't understand:
Infantry, your suits and weapons cost about ten percent of the cost of an ADS, possibly twenty percent for all you protos, and that's for an ADV ADS, not proto. When you are having a hard time killing it, consider that; the pilot has invested huge amounts of SP and ISK, whereas a militia forge gun on a militia frame can end an ADS quite easily. I am actually very happy with AV at the moment - flying can be easy, unless the enemy work together (wait, what? :P) to take you down. When 2-3 infantry / a rail tank and a forge work together to take me out, I feel that I'm fair game.
What I don't want to see are the return of the days where I lift off and suddenly get mullered by 7 groups of unrendered swarms, 2 forge guns and a rail installation within 5 seconds, every time. :/
One other idea: why can't it be a food chain? Infantry>Tanks>dropships>infantry for example? Aren't some match ups meant to be more one-sided than others? :) My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage. ^Was going to say pretty much this. Unless the whole other team is running basic fits, my AV fit's SMG is only going to keep me alive through a couple CQC engagements before they decide to gang up on me or I turn a corner on a heavy (or a fat taxi chases me down). All while trying to get a chance to fire a couple of volleys at you to scare you off of my teammates. It's not like I can sit on a hill and not be noticed by every RR shithead in the vicinity, and there isn't **** I can do about anyone with at least a GEK's range. Even HMG's can kill me before I can kill them with my SMG when they come lumbering my way out in the open because of the HMG's optimal being what it is. And as for price, at least half the time I loose 1+ suits (160,000ish ISK) before I ever even get the chance to fire on you because of the enemy's infantry. Cloaked scouts, HMG's, RE's, snipers, super-scanning Calscouts and RR roof campers might be funny little blips on your radar, but on mine they are ruining my day every single time I pull AV.
This^
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
283
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Posted - 2014.06.25 03:13:00 -
[106] - Quote
Make swarm launcher range the same as dropship turret range (250m).
Fixed.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Beld Errmon
1708
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 03:33:00 -
[107] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Make swarm launcher range the same as dropship turret range (250m).
Fixed.
ok so long as your missiles disappear in mid air at the same range ours do, oh and seeming as we are evening things up I don't think you should be able to render our dropships till we come within 100m as well, only fair right.
Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
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Beld Errmon
1708
|
Posted - 2014.06.25 03:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:The dark cloud wrote:lol people complaining that swarms take no skill but in reality they are the direct mirror to modern anti air weapons. Prime example is the stinger where you lock on and shot the missile. Sure there are countersystems to that but unfrotunately CCP decided no more client side updates which is basically saying a big "NO" to counter systems for aireal vehicles. They are not a direct mirror to modern anti-air weapons. There are several real life factors that are not present in a video game. That one soldier has to carry that heavy weapon to wherever that vehicle is expected to be. You cannot replicate hours upon hours of exhaustion in a video game onto your character. An actual stinger would be far harder to aim than a mere swarm launcher, as your suit has mechanical joints assisting in lifting, running, and etc. You live only once... so if you mess up, or are unfortunate enough, that vehicle will still be flying around. The skill to using a stinger, is surviving long enough to use the damn thing, and having the energy to do it properly. You can not replicate this in Dust. An immortal clone with practically infinite resources and weapons to his disposal is child's play in comparison to a single human soldier who is running like hell to survive, and you can not regenerate instantly either, which should be obvious.
comparing RL to video games is always a re.tarded direction for a thread to take, you get all the arm chair generals and bitter vets talking **** and linking wiki articles.
Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
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Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender
Proficiency V.
98
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Posted - 2014.06.25 04:58:00 -
[109] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Temias Mercurial wrote:The dark cloud wrote:lol people complaining that swarms take no skill but in reality they are the direct mirror to modern anti air weapons. Prime example is the stinger where you lock on and shot the missile. Sure there are countersystems to that but unfrotunately CCP decided no more client side updates which is basically saying a big "NO" to counter systems for aireal vehicles. They are not a direct mirror to modern anti-air weapons. There are several real life factors that are not present in a video game. That one soldier has to carry that heavy weapon to wherever that vehicle is expected to be. You cannot replicate hours upon hours of exhaustion in a video game onto your character. An actual stinger would be far harder to aim than a mere swarm launcher, as your suit has mechanical joints assisting in lifting, running, and etc. You live only once... so if you mess up, or are unfortunate enough, that vehicle will still be flying around. The skill to using a stinger, is surviving long enough to use the damn thing, and having the energy to do it properly. You can not replicate this in Dust. An immortal clone with practically infinite resources and weapons to his disposal is child's play in comparison to a single human soldier who is running like hell to survive, and you can not regenerate instantly either, which should be obvious. comparing RL to video games is always a re.tarded direction for a thread to take, you get all the arm chair generals and bitter vets talking **** and linking wiki articles.
That was the point I was making, that comparing swarm launchers to current day real life AV weapons was ridiculous, and that it shouldn't have any major effect to the thread and its discussion. There are exceptions that can actually benefit certain topics, but the majority of which simply do not contribute anything other than adding an unnecessary comment and clouding the topic in useless information...
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Hobo on Fire
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
291
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Posted - 2014.06.25 06:16:00 -
[110] - Quote
ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV. Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them.
You completely missed his point here. A dropship pilot has to worry about swarms, forge guns, and heavy turrets. An AV player still has to worry about forge guns and turrets (of all sizes) in addition to shotguns, rifles, (the users of which may be cloaked) HMGs, mass drivers, snipers, grenades, remote explosives, orbital bombardments, etc.
Pilots are vulnerable to AV. AV players are vulnerable to everything. Swarms may be a "no-skill" weapon, but so are militia assault rifles, and there are a lot more of those out there than there are swarm launchers, and they kill us a lot faster.
Dropships are indeed an expensive asset to put at risk, but if it manages to get off the ground it is in nowhere near the amount of danger as an infantry player packing an AV weapon. Just because everyone can see your dropship doesn't mean everyone can hit it; an infantry player who gets spotted by a red will take fire almost every time.
I would like to see dropship prices reduced to bring them more in line with HAVs; lowering the isk hurdle to get into them would encourage more people to try them out, which means more people will get good enough with them to fly them regularly. More dropships in the air creates more engagements between AV and dropships, which gives CCP and the playerbase more data on what needs to be tweaked for balance. Oh, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg to replace if I shoot you down. |
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1800
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Posted - 2014.06.25 06:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Waiting gets you dead by infantry (see my last post) or looses you the chance as the DS moves elsewhere, leaving you in an very weak AV fitting, very likely miles away from a supply depot. Getting closer gets you dead by either the pilot or the infantry the pilot is trying to steal kills from.
Yes, sometimes using strategy when the other team is terrible works wonderfully. But that only works about 30-40% of the time, the rest of the time you are throwing away suits. And when you are dropping 160,000isk per suit you don't typically want to just serve them to your opponents on a platter.
THAT is swarm launcher 101. Been running proto swarms since Replication, been Prof. 5 since Uprising 1.0, and that's how swarms HAVE to be run right now. Back when it was just AR's it wasn't a big deal since HMG range was low, but now EVERYTHING has range, EVERYONE is cloaked, and EVERYONE is gunning for the easy kill with no anti-infantry light weapon. Right...so you're complaining about losing tons of ISK, when you can actually effectively perform AV duty with lower level AV weapons. An ADV Swarm can actually deter dropships and even semi incautious ones get shot down. You don't need to run 100% Proto 100% of the time to shoot something down. Just because you have chosen to endanger your expensive suits, doesn't mean that you have to.
Yes.... and YOU can run a MLT DS with MLT rail or missile turrets with good gunners and still 3 shots just about every suit in the game, but you choose not to. Killing a vehicle as quickly as possible increases my survivability as much if not more than my suit and modules, not only because it gives me less time being shot at by the vehicle but also because I can focus on the infantry instead of staring at a vehicle.
Same goes the other way around, so suck it up.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1800
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:01:00 -
[112] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Make swarm launcher range the same as dropship turret range (250m).
Fixed. ok so long as your missiles disappear in mid air at the same range ours do, oh and seeming as we are evening things up I don't think you should be able to render our dropships till we come within 100m as well, only fair right.
As long as our missiles do as much damage and travel as fast as yours (and fly straight like yours), you've got a deal big boy. I'll even go full dumbfire if you like, it's not like we have the splash radius to do **** against infantry with them anyway. I'm all for fairness, bring it hotshot.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1800
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:17:00 -
[113] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:awww poor AV guys you can only defend yourself with a side arm your so hard done by, please tell me more about how hard life is for you while I ponder all the ways I lose dropships.
Ok.
Beld Errmon wrote:Take off too quick hit RDV and die...
LOLOL GIT GUD, LEARN TO FLY
Beld Errmon wrote:...take off get killed by RDV bringing in some scrubs LAV...
If you haven't learned to call in your DS away from the scrubs yet.... who's to blame for that? Oh, right, you. L2DROPSHIP
Beld Errmon wrote:...get shot by own teams explosive weapons and crash into random nearby object and die...
#SHITHAPPENS Some times I spawn a protosuit and some scrub ADS pilot's ADS or some scrub tanker's tank drops on my head as I spawn in, you don't here me on the forums bitchin' about it.
Beld Errmon wrote:...I could go on but I think a full list should be saved for its own amusing thread.
Lemme tell ya bro, I'm rolling already over the pitiful ways you loose your **** already, can't wait to see the rest. 
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1800
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:34:00 -
[114] - Quote
ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV. Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them.
Or going behind a hill. Or building. Or oil drum. Or pipes. Or tower. Or wall. Should I go on? Prolly not. All of which puts us in a situation where our location is pinpointed to enemy infantry and vehicles by our smoke trails while you are nestled safely behind cover, recovering your health (in most cases) in less than 10 seconds. And if we AREN'T being perused by infantry after firing of a giant 6-flare flaregun round into the air and we decide to try to close in on you, we have to further expose ourselves to the other team's infantry.
And just because the swarm requires no skill to kill the scrubbiest of vehicle pilots doesn't mean ****, the same can be said of any weapon in the game where it concerns infantry. A terrible player in full proto vs a good player in a starterfit doesn't stand a chance, same should go for V vs AV. Swarming effectively against GOOD players takes tactics, experience, determination, quick thinking and massive amounts of situational awareness.
It may not take the "skill" people use to point their scope at someone and hold down R1 while wiggling back and forth until one of them is dead, but it takes skill all the same.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1396
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Posted - 2014.06.25 07:38:00 -
[115] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV. Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them. Or going behind a hill. Or building. Or oil drum. Or pipes. Or tower. Or wall. Should I go on? Prolly not. All of which puts us in a situation where our location is pinpointed to enemy infantry and vehicles by our smoke trails while you are nestled safely behind cover, recovering your health (in most cases) in less than 10 seconds. And if we AREN'T being perused by infantry after firing of a giant 6-flare flaregun round into the air and we decide to try to close in on you, we have to further expose ourselves to the other team's infantry. And just because the swarm requires no skill to kill the scrubbiest of vehicle pilots doesn't mean ****, the same can be said of any weapon in the game where it concerns infantry. A terrible player in full proto vs a good player in a starterfit doesn't stand a chance, same should go for V vs AV. Swarming effectively against GOOD players takes tactics, experience, determination, quick thinking and massive amounts of situational awareness. It may not take the "skill" people use to point their scope at someone and hold down R1 while wiggling back and forth until one of them is dead, but it takes skill all the same.
A. Swarms still don't render.
B. Damage indicator still doesn't properly register the direction of damage
C. Swarms will follow you behind a wall.
Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1800
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Posted - 2014.06.25 08:03:00 -
[116] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:I should add that because AV is vulnerable to everything else while vehicles are immune to many things, any error in balance should favor AV. Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them. Or going behind a hill. Or building. Or oil drum. Or pipes. Or tower. Or wall. Should I go on? Prolly not. All of which puts us in a situation where our location is pinpointed to enemy infantry and vehicles by our smoke trails while you are nestled safely behind cover, recovering your health (in most cases) in less than 10 seconds. And if we AREN'T being perused by infantry after firing of a giant 6-flare flaregun round into the air and we decide to try to close in on you, we have to further expose ourselves to the other team's infantry. And just because the swarm requires no skill to kill the scrubbiest of vehicle pilots doesn't mean ****, the same can be said of any weapon in the game where it concerns infantry. A terrible player in full proto vs a good player in a starterfit doesn't stand a chance, same should go for V vs AV. Swarming effectively against GOOD players takes tactics, experience, determination, quick thinking and massive amounts of situational awareness. It may not take the "skill" people use to point their scope at someone and hold down R1 while wiggling back and forth until one of them is dead, but it takes skill all the same. A. Swarms still don't render. B. Damage indicator still doesn't properly register the direction of damage C. Swarms will follow you behind a wall.
A. Swarms can be outran. After the first volley hits you, since you know more are likely coming, you take flight and recover. Like I do when an ADS starts blasting me from above while fighting infantry. If you stick around and chance getting hit by MORE unrendered swarms, that's not on us but on you. I would love for you to see them coming so this excuse could be put to bed, but since that's likely never going to happen, you might want to play it safe when you have the opportunity to. Is it fun hiding and recovering after getting blasted? No. Guess what? It's not for me either, especially when there's a whole team between me and the supply depot I need to reach in order to fight back against you.
B. See A.
C. Swarms, if they have reached a proper altitude or have gotten close enough to you, will follow you behind a wall. If they are not at a high enough altitude to clear said wall when you drop behind it, or if you pass behind a tower before they get too close, they will not follow you behind the wall. Which is why you should, once again, see A. You vehicle pilots wanted us to scare you off, well now you can consider yourselves vulnerable enough to be scared.
Edit: Not saying you in particular said that, just expressing the overwhelming sentiment given off by most of the vehicle community.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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Beld Errmon
1710
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Posted - 2014.06.25 11:08:00 -
[117] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:
LOLOL GIT GUD, LEARN TO FLY
oh man I'm totally burnt now, A guy who doesn't pilot an ADS telling one to git gud, I'll just have to salve my wounds with the fact that i've nailed you a number of times in game and you basically just laid their like a 2 dollar ***** while I flew away laughing, gg scrub.
As for your comment about "going dumbfire boy" if you could actually use predictive aim to kill a dropship you'd use the far superior forge gun rather than a scrub launcher.
Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
905
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Posted - 2014.06.25 12:37:00 -
[118] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Make swarm launcher range the same as dropship turret range (250m).
Fixed. ok so long as your missiles disappear in mid air at the same range ours do, oh and seeming as we are evening things up I don't think you should be able to render our dropships till we come within 100m as well, only fair right.
Your missiles aren't visible at all nor can we outrun them and our swarms make us visible from much further away than 100 meters and we are vulnerable to every infantryman on the ground. Sorry it is inconvenient now to hover over us and rain destruction but it is hardly unfair.
Because, that's why.
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Baal Omniscient
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
1812
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Posted - 2014.06.25 15:19:00 -
[119] - Quote
Beld Errmon wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:
LOLOL GIT GUD, LEARN TO FLY
oh man I'm totally burnt now, A guy who doesn't pilot an ADS telling one to git gud, I'll just have to salve my wounds with the fact that i've nailed you a number of times in game and you basically just laid their like a 2 dollar ***** while I flew away laughing, gg scrub. As for your comment about "going dumbfire boy" if you could actually use predictive aim to kill a dropship you'd use the far superior forge gun rather than a scrub launcher.
1. First off, let me say kudos to you. You managed to kill a 600eHP Minassault with an ADS. You must be so proud you're capable of landing 2 shots on the same guy consecutively.  Also, who are you? I really have no clue...
2. Every idiot who's flown an ADS knows if you immediately take off, your propulsion has a very good chance of shooting you straight up into the RDV that just dropped your ride unless you get lucky and it's one of the quick-vanishing ones. If you immediately afterburner up, you're pretty much guaranteed to hit it. Oh, but you knew that. Which is why that never happens to you.
...oh wait....
3. I've been flying dropships since Replication, and I do ADS. With MLT missiles and basic modules because I feel no need to take anything higher at this point. AND still manage to keep it alive through at least 40% of the matches I take it into. Which, by the sound of you're bitchin', sounds like far more than you manage with probably a lot more SP into it than I do. Shame if that's the case, I certainly HOPE you don't loose ADS's so often to that BS that you loose them to that crap alone more than 60% of the time.... Hell, if it's even 10% of matches that's sad. Need a hug bro?
4. If I didn't become a slow-moving target in the process, I definitely would. I despise fat suits. They cannot strafe with any zeal unless you kb/m (I do not kb/m) and they drag ass everywhere. I Minmatar Assault. When the last respec came out, the only AV weapon for non-heavy suits was the swarm. So I swarm. Also, the forge IS superior. In rep-interruption, in DPS, in alpha damage, in everything. I don't go with what's OP or with what works best, I go with what can go on my suit the best. Don't use RR's, don't use Cal/Gal scouts, never had a Callogi or Gallogi, I don't spec tanks (and haven't since Chromosome) and when the TAR/flaylock/ScR fads happened, I stuck with my GEK awaiting my ACR.
Side note: You need to learn to read too, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said "boy". I said "big boy". Totally different connotation.
Side note 2: I love ADS pilots, I just got through sending Dust Fiend 50 million isk because he went broke from the rail spam before the rails got nerfed. (I made him promise I get to 1v1 him in a corner of a map if we end up on opposite sides  ) You are having an ignorant attitude and acting holier-than-thou towards an entire playstyle that has been in this game longer than most people still playing this game have been here. You dis my playstyle, you dis the playstyle of the people who worked on this game before you ever got here, and you dis the playstyle of the people who pushed just as hard as the vehicle pilots for the swarms to get nerfed in the first place (ya know, the swarm community). So as far as I'm concerned, you can **** right the **** off. Get good or get out.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
Winmatar Assault & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
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