DUST Search - Swarms vs Dropships

Lynn Beck wrote:

But you're not against a Assault Swarm, havin -10% damage and +20%(35 meter) lock range swarm, with +10% speed? As usual, arbitrary numbers at best, but some Ads Pilots can hit you from 180m with impunity with Xt's or even a Rail if they're THAT godly.

Certainly you're not against Swarmers getting an ability to specialize into countering finicky DS pilots with a chaser type Swarm?

Edit: i understand where you're coming from, but this game relies entirely on Isk Destruction. If you live all match 'playing by the rules' then power to ya, but it's not balanced (EvE wise) when simply following the rules deems you invulnerable.

Yes, pilots deserve to have an opportunity to keep their ship, no they shouldn't be expected to never lose it, all by following a 'guidebook' telling them exactly when to leave. It should be a hell of a lot more mixed up than thst, giving AV a chance to kill the pilot, much akin to a Pilot being able to Blitzkrieg an AV nest and wipe then out.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2281	Posted - 2014.06.20 18:06:00 - [1] - Quote I am watching this one. I don't want to jump too soon. Swarmer needed a buff. They work hard form their kills. As of now a proto swarms on a mine commando can 4 shot a python. They. Are stronger, yes. Too much? Too soon to say. Let's see, and make sure we give both sides time to adjust and that feed back is civilised and accurate. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2301	Posted - 2014.06.22 07:15:00 - [2] - Quote There is no way an increase in range or speed can happen without completely destroying swarm vs drop ship balance. 175 meters seems an odd number. why not 180 or 170. or a neat 200. You need to ask your selves why you want to add 15m so you get 200m range. Why is it? The main reason is that then dropships who in most battles are out of range would be just in range. Fine. But now ask yourselves why it is that they are just out of range? The answer to those questions and the seemingly random 175m lock range is map design and render distance. I have been over this a few times, and demonstrated it in video form many times. Infantry normally do not render until the are 50m away. That gives you 115m to see and hear me coming and shoot at me before I can even see you. Now go look at the maps. 175m range was chosen for a reason. It stops you sitting at one objective and shooting another, and also from sitting in the redline and shooting the objective. Even now, say on Iron Delta, you can sit on the redline and hit dropships over the domination objective. Any more range than 175m will bring back redline swarming. Any more than 175m will bring back swarms sitting in safety at a held objective just spamming shots at the other objectives. Increasing missile speed is also a short sighted suggestion. Why is is do you think that dropships always run away? We have no choice. We cannot fit enough tank to survive current AV. The only option is to run. You are missing the causal and effect here. We run because swarms are too fast and too strong to absorb. The cause of dropship speed is your AV. We cannot see you. You always get the first shot in. You are invisible. Forges are invisible and the shots incredibly hard to track back to source. We have a tiny amount to none of cover. You are able to hide behind a wall but I cant. Speed is my wall. So no. Speed and range changes are not the solution. They are a return to the broken mechanics we have been trying to fix for over a year. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2303	Posted - 2014.06.22 11:26:00 - [3] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: But you're not against a Assault Swarm, havin -10% damage and +20%(35 meter) lock range swarm, with +10% speed? As usual, arbitrary numbers at best, but some Ads Pilots can hit you from 180m with impunity with Xt's or even a Rail if they're THAT godly. Certainly you're not against Swarmers getting an ability to specialize into countering finicky DS pilots with a chaser type Swarm? Edit: i understand where you're coming from, but this game relies entirely on Isk Destruction. If you live all match 'playing by the rules' then power to ya, but it's not balanced (EvE wise) when simply following the rules deems you invulnerable. Yes, pilots deserve to have an opportunity to keep their ship, no they shouldn't be expected to never lose it, all by following a 'guidebook' telling them exactly when to leave. It should be a hell of a lot more mixed up than thst, giving AV a chance to kill the pilot, much akin to a Pilot being able to Blitzkrieg an AV nest and wipe then out. My next video.. which I am doing right now is pro swarm and from the swarm players perspective. You'll have to sit down to watch it if you swarm as it will bring back horrible moments of BS. Ill TRY finish it today. I'll hang off too many replies here until I release the video. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2307	Posted - 2014.06.22 23:46:00 - [4] - Quote Texs Red wrote: Also now that the damage profile on armor dropships went from 55/55 to 80/120, what is the profile on shield dropships? If it is anything besides 80/120 then I cry foul, especially if it is lower. The damage profile is not 80/120. That's base efficiency. Quite different from shield and armour damage profiles. THe two ships are not balanced. The existing profile really hurts the shield ships. I point this out in the video I am releasing tomorrow Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2308	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:16:00 - [5] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: So how much more damage are they doing now, because im getting 3 shotted by swarms which im not use to.And im barely repping through damage now. To give you an idea, my proto swarms on my minmatar commando will tear a 1157 hp hole in your shields in a single volley. And 1537 in your Armour. Against all shields a single clip will put out 3471 damage. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2308	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:35:00 - [6] - Quote all levels are a bit powerful against dropships. they need a slight tone done. I think a 70/70/80/110 might be too far, i'm still running models. Perhaps start with an 80/70/80/120 or even 70/70/100/120. There are a few options. The most balanced are based not on the raw data, but on the realistically available builds Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2308	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: the way people are going on is like a dropship should have the same suitability as a tank. swarms hit dropships with the exact same damage profile as tanks. A proto swarm hits a tanks shields just as hard as a dropships shields. So we are hit as hard but have much less EHP. THis creates an issue of balance. Echo 1991 wrote: use an afterburner and fly away, as soon as you get hit activate and you cant be touched This is not how it works at all. As has been published and demonstrated many times. Swarms hit most times afterburner or not. You are wrong in this point. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2310	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:32:00 - [8] - Quote we have been here before. I will record and post some un edtited matches for an ADS point of view, I will do the same for swarms as I have a minmater commando maxed to the limit with swarms. Let me show you what it is like for both sides. As AV and Vehicle we need to work on this together so its fun for all of us. Neither side wants easy wins. Reading the posts in this thread I see people on both sides how want a fun game. So, lets pull back a little and try to reach the sweet spot where death makes you send a GG message to your killer. Judge For CPM 1 youtube Twitter @Judge_EVELegion