I would say we need to leave the range alone but noticeably increase the missile velocity. Personally, guys that outrun my missiles frustrate me far more than guys tanking my damage. The guy trying to just tank the swarms will eventually get hammered (usually out of overconfidence) but the pilot that hits the jets and gets away scot free - not a fan of that.

Another interesting thought might be to change the damage type of the missiles or provide variants that do. This is a very EVE-esque solution but might be worth exploring.

Good point, Baal.

I think if you somewhat equalized the small turret ranges and swarms that might work pretty well. I don't know if I would go quite to 250 though. If a guy nails me from that far away while i'm moving i think he should be rewarded.

Your missile velocity comment is exactly what i'm thinking. The ABs versus missile velocity should basically set up the scenario that ABs are used to get out of lock range very quickly but not out run the missiles in flight.

One of the interesting things about slow missile speed is that if you engage a DS or HAV at range you can have a second volley on the way before the first even hits and a third starting to lock. If you increase missile speed you are better assured first strike but a savvy pilot might actually have more reaction time to deal with follow on volleys.

My AV fit costs 150k. Unless your dropship costs 1.5 million its not 10 percent. I have invested sp into my suit, equipment guns and other skills i need. I am weak to any form of anti infantry in order to kill you. I will die more than you will trying to get a decent shot. It will be more expensive for me. And as for needing 3 people to kill you that is a farce. In a 16v16 match hqving 3 people out of the fit gives the team a large advantage.

My AV fit (STD MinCom/ADV Swarm) costs 20,000 ISK, and while soloing a vehicle is difficult, it is not impossible for me. I realise not everyone runs Commandos, and that is fair, but even a single Swarmer is something for your average ADS pilot to be concerned about.

Take a look at the other example: does your Proto heavy cost 4x that of a standard heavy, and should you not have an advantage? You have the better gun, more HP, higher bonuses and just plain more. That Proto heavy does have a significant advantage: the ADS does have a significant advantage over even the most expensive AVer, but for all of that advantage, a single AVer can drop them all the same. I know! I've been on both sides of that equation (albeit not even as expensive as you!)

If a half invested AVer can take down ADSs, surely a fully invested AVer can. I don't want to say get good, but how are you approaching Swarm/ADS combat? Are you just launching at first sight? Do you wait and optimise your approach? Do you get behind it, wait til it gets lower for better shots?

I still feel the Swarm has a low skill cap (ie, the difference between a poor Swarmer and a great Swarmer is not a large gap) but there are measures you can take to make your attacks more effective.

Right...so you're complaining about losing tons of ISK, when you can actually effectively perform AV duty with lower level AV weapons. An ADV Swarm can actually deter dropships and even semi incautious ones get shot down. You don't need to run 100% Proto 100% of the time to shoot something down.

Just because you have chosen to endanger your expensive suits, doesn't mean that you have to.

ok so long as your missiles disappear in mid air at the same range ours do, oh and seeming as we are evening things up I don't think you should be able to render our dropships till we come within 100m as well, only fair right.

awww poor AV guys you can only defend yourself with a side arm your so hard done by, please tell me more about how hard life is for you while I ponder all the ways I lose dropships.

Take off too quick hit RDV and die...

...take off get killed by RDV bringing in some scrubs LAV...

...get shot by own teams explosive weapons and crash into random nearby object and die...

...I could go on but I think a full list should be saved for its own amusing thread.

Not when swarms 2 or 3 shot dropships its a no skill weapon that cant be avoided without flying 400 meters to escape them.

A. Swarms still don't render.

B. Damage indicator still doesn't properly register the direction of damage

C. Swarms will follow you behind a wall.

oh man I'm totally burnt now, A guy who doesn't pilot an ADS telling one to git gud, I'll just have to salve my wounds with the fact that i've nailed you a number of times in game and you basically just laid their like a 2 dollar ***** while I flew away laughing, gg scrub.

As for your comment about "going dumbfire boy" if you could actually use predictive aim to kill a dropship you'd use the far superior forge gun rather than a scrub launcher.