DUST Search - Swarms vs Dropships

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

Monkey MAC wrote:

Now I'm going to use my experience from before hotfix Alpha, so please be patient.
However based on what Rattatai has said my experience is still just as valid.

[Snip]

1) Improve Swarm Launchers with greater acceleration and top speed, however also slightly take away there high tracking my increasing the turning circle. (If this can be done so it only comes into effect against aerial vehicles all the better.

2) Give pilots an early warning system, something that allows them to know when they are being spiked by enemy ground troops. For an example see ACE COMBAT, give a caution when you are being locked on or aimed at by a swarm launcher or forge gun and give a 'parking sensor' beep once a volley is fired at you.

3) Decrease the low-end acceleration of dropships, so they cannot just use afterburners to effectively teleport to the flight ceiling. For clarification the first 20 Kmph of acceleration should be slower than the rest of the acceleration, incidently this will also allow for finer control of dropships at lower speeds.

Pre-Hotfix Alpha evidence is most certainly not relevant any longer. As an L3 MinCom/L3 Swarm user also, I know full well that I can solo an even vaguely incautious ADS. And please note that that is not a 10% damage buff, I am not a fully levelled MinCom. Quite simply, Bravo has made Swarmers much more potent.

This is perfectly legitimate and reasonable. What is not is the issues with rendering. Invisible swarms are not only infuriating but incredibly unbalanced. I have no issues with the power of Swarms right now, the only thing I want is to actually see them when I'm looking right at them.

Anecdote: flying my Incubus, testing the blasters with a side gunner. Both of us shooting at a Swarmer that my gunner called out as a target before it could launch: still got hit by two volleys without seeing any missiles...even though both me and my gunner were actively engaged in trying to shoot said Swarmer.

1) I could agree to that. Caveat rendering, obviously.
2) I could live without it, if rendering is fixed, but I wouldn't say no. I would accept this in line with a slightly Afterburner nerf.
3) Again, I can see this being reasonable. Caveat rendering, blah blah.

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2897	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:52:00 - [1] - Quote Now I'm going to use my experience from before hotfix Alpha, so please be patient. However based on what Rattatai has said my experience is still just as valid. Before I took a 'Protest Break' I started become a medium frame AV specalist, which naturally of course meant I used the Swarm Launcher. Now at the time I began working out the best time of when to start firing my 4-round mag of swarms in order to achieve the most damage. You had to get them as they flew directly towards you, then maintain the volley as long as possible often being out in the open for extended periods of time. In the majority of cases I could destroy (and be accredited with the destruction) of a standard dropship 6/10 times provided every single volley hit and that the pilot wasn't skilled enough to maintain his momentum after being spiked. With Assault Dropships however this got worse only 2/10 would only die to a single well-postioned full on volley. Of which most would return in an attempt to hunt me down. So swarms against Dropships undoubtedly need a buff from a Infantry Standpoint. However in order to expand my vehicle destruction role I began speccing into assault dropships as well, now from that standpoint the story changes. As a pilot I would often be left flying for my life at the hands of swarm launcher, the first volley would almost always hit unannounced, you merely had a few seconds to recognize the sound. Of course as,soon as thenfirst one hit you had no choice but to bug out almost instantly escaping with but a narrow margin of your health. However between repping and afterburners I escaped on average 9/10 times with nothing more than my tail between my legs. While I'm not experienced enough with my turret to deal large amount of constant damage often coming within the last few on the scoreboard, the fact I can go entire matches undefire with dying seems a little too easy. So in short yes, I believe dropships currently are too survivable, but not by much and there are certainly things that can be done to help pilots as well. 1) Improve Swarm Launchers with greater acceleration and top speed, however also slightly take away there high tracking my increasing the turning circle. (If this can be done so it only comes into effect against aerial vehicles all the better. 2) Give pilots an early warning system, something that allows them to know when they are being spiked by enemy ground troops. For an example see ACE COMBAT, give a caution when you are being locked on or aimed at by a swarm launcher or forge gun and give a 'parking sensor' beep once a volley is fired at you. 3) Decrease the low-end acceleration of dropships, so they cannot just use afterburners to effectively teleport to the flight ceiling. For clarification the first 20 Kmph of acceleration should be slower than the rest of the acceleration, incidently this will also allow for finer control of dropships at lower speeds. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2898	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:02:00 - [2] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: the way people are going on is like a dropship should have the same survivability as a tank. If its a transport centric one such as logistics or standard then hell yeah it should have MORE survivability than a tank. A tank is a single man operable vehicle, it does not require more than 1 person to utilise it in order to be effective. A transport dropship however requires AT LEAST 3, and that is just to be a poor representation of a Helicopter Gunship, the main role of a dropship is to transport troops. Therefore you give more survivability because your not gonna convince 6 people to get into a flying steel coffin. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2898	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:54:00 - [3] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: the way people are going on is like a dropship should have the same survivability as a tank. If its a transport centric one such as logistics or standard then hell yeah it should have MORE survivability than a tank. A tank is a single man operable vehicle, it does not require more than 1 person to utilise it in order to be effective. A transport dropship however requires AT LEAST 3, and that is just to be a poor representation of a Helicopter Gunship, the main role of a dropship is to transport troops. Therefore you give more survivability because your not gonna convince 6 people to get into a flying steel coffin. troop transports are supposed to get to the LZ drop the troops off and get out of there. Not stay there for 5 minutes taking swarm after swarm and surviving. No a logistics transport sticks around and provides infantry support. Futhermore how do you expect a dropship to get in, drop troops and get out if it can't reliably survive 2 magazines worth of swarms? Which is only marginally more than a tank. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2899	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:04:00 - [4] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Now I'm going to use my experience from before hotfix Alpha, so please be patient. However based on what Rattatai has said my experience is still just as valid. [Snip] 1) Improve Swarm Launchers with greater acceleration and top speed, however also slightly take away there high tracking my increasing the turning circle. (If this can be done so it only comes into effect against aerial vehicles all the better. 2) Give pilots an early warning system, something that allows them to know when they are being spiked by enemy ground troops. For an example see ACE COMBAT, give a caution when you are being locked on or aimed at by a swarm launcher or forge gun and give a 'parking sensor' beep once a volley is fired at you. 3) Decrease the low-end acceleration of dropships, so they cannot just use afterburners to effectively teleport to the flight ceiling. For clarification the first 20 Kmph of acceleration should be slower than the rest of the acceleration, incidently this will also allow for finer control of dropships at lower speeds. Pre-Hotfix Alpha evidence is most certainly not relevant any longer. As an L3 MinCom/L3 Swarm user also, I know full well that I can solo an even vaguely incautious ADS. And please note that that is not a 10% damage buff, I am not a fully levelled MinCom. Quite simply, Bravo has made Swarmers much more potent. This is perfectly legitimate and reasonable. What is not is the issues with rendering. Invisible swarms are not only infuriating but incredibly unbalanced. I have no issues with the power of Swarms right now, the only thing I want is to actually see them when I'm looking right at them. Anecdote: flying my Incubus, testing the blasters with a side gunner. Both of us shooting at a Swarmer that my gunner called out as a target before it could launch: still got hit by two volleys without seeing any missiles...even though both me and my gunner were actively engaged in trying to shoot said Swarmer. 1) I could agree to that. Caveat rendering, obviously. 2) I could live without it, if rendering is fixed, but I wouldn't say no. I would accept this in line with a slightly Afterburner nerf. 3) Again, I can see this being reasonable. Caveat rendering, blah blah. Well you will be glad to know I've been on recently, AV is getting better. However compared to 1.7 SL aren't any better, what it is different however is vehicle module nerfs that make AV weapons slightly stronger. The only other thing I might suggest is to increase fitting power on dropships so they can fit 2 heavy modules as opposed to one. Pair this with giving passive skills in the vehicle upgrades tree amd it will all be dandy. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2899	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:32:00 - [5] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: awww poor AV guys you can only defend yourself with a side arm your so hard done by, please tell me more about how hard life is for you while I ponder all the ways I lose dropships. Take off too quick hit RDV and die, take off get killed by RDV bringing in some scrubs LAV, get shot by own teams explosive weapons and crash into random nearby object and die... I could go on but I think a full list should be saved for its own amusing thread. 1) Don't take of so quickly 2) Don't take of so quickly 3) I'm not even mad, that's amazing Im not the greatest pilot in Dropship history but how you achieve 3 is beyond my comprehension. How are you so close that ground based explosives are causing you to crash? Or are you flying into Swarms and believe they shouldn't encroach on your airspace? Yes Dropshiping is expensive, mthat doesn't mean your don't die. We spent h8wever long having this talk with tankers, I shouldn't expect to have to have it with other dropship pilots as well. Looks like its back to FPS Military Shooter 56 Monkey Mac - Just another pile of discarded ashes on the battlefield!