I mentioned this in the gallente scout thread but you guys should consider placing a turn cap if it's possible. Currently people are still 360 scanning. I see it all the time.

There are some of you who are complaining about the removal of the cloak dampening bonus. Concerns over having to use profile dampeners and getting picked up by Caldari scouts or Gallente logistics.

The whole point of removing the cloak profile bonus is to force you to choose what you want to be good at. If you still want to be stealthy, you can do that, but now you have to use up slots. If you want to brick tank, you can still do that, but you'll be easier to find. You can't have it all because balance.

But you'll be picked up by Caldari scouts and Gallente logistics you say. To this I reply balance again. These are counters to stealth. If they invested more and sacrificed more in fitting than you to find you, then tough, they're going to find you.

IF - and that's a pretty massive "if" - there needs to be any change to cloaks (OTHER THAN FIXING THE BUGS WITH THEM), it should be SMALL.

REDUCE the dampening bonus. R-E-D-U-C-E.

NOT remove. Reduce.

Make it SMALLER. Not GONE.

10 - 15% dampening bonus instead of 25%, then OBSERVE. Like you're doing for LITERALLY EVERY GOOD BALANCE CHANGE YOU'RE CONSIDERING.

There are some of you who are complaining about the removal of the cloak dampening bonus....

The whole point of removing the cloak profile bonus is to force you to choose what you want to be good at....

But you'll be picked up by Caldari scouts and Gallente logistics you say. To this I reply balance again. These are counters to stealth. If they invested more and sacrificed more in fitting than you to find you, then tough, they're going to find you.

This Is a very true... You want to be stealthy you have to choose. Gall logi specializes in finding things, Cal scout does also. I would suggest training into a role that specializes in hiding maybe>? Scouts can't have the best of both worlds; they have to choose just like every other suit does.

The game needs balance and These are some one the most level headed set of balances CCP has done. Very Light and not overdone like it usually is. I feel very grateful that they are making sensible adjustment.

CCP SHANGHAI used to use the ner-bat... Be grateful they put it away in the closet.

Excellent!


YES!!! SMALL changes. ONE change at a time. YES YES YES!


Small changes. Only buffing one side without nerfing the other at the same time. YES YES YES YES YES!!!!




lolwut...

No word on Swarm Launchers and Plasma Cannons are getting a minimal buff?

And you're re-buffing GRENADES?

What.
The.
Flying.
KITTEN.
?????????

Seriously, not even kidding. WTF is wrong with you? AV grenades were stupid. They're a tertiary weapon AT BEST. They should NEVER be treated as primary AV.

Please, please, PLEASE reverse this change, and replace it with improvements to THE ACTUAL PRIMARY AV WEAPONS. Plasma Cannons wouldn't be competing with Forge Guns even if each hit was dealing THE SAME DAMAGE. They have to reload S-L-O-W-L-Y after every single shot, carry less ammo, and are blatantly always going to be the lower DPS option even with the same per-shot damage.


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY NO BEFORE YOU REALISE NO????

What happened to the SMALL steps being taken EVERYWHERE ELSE??????

WHY??? WHY WHY HOW WAS THIS EVEN A THING?

IF - and that's a pretty massive "if" - there needs to be any change to cloaks (OTHER THAN FIXING THE BUGS WITH THEM), it should be SMALL.

REDUCE the dampening bonus. R-E-D-U-C-E.

NOT remove. Reduce.

Make it SMALLER. Not GONE.

10 - 15% dampening bonus instead of 25%, then OBSERVE. Like you're doing for LITERALLY EVERY GOOD BALANCE CHANGE YOU'RE CONSIDERING.

i knew you had vision problems, maby that explains why u think the cloak makes u invisible. dont gimp the game because ur a gimp because not everyone is a gimp like u. do u need some crutches to go with ur limp?

Why are we objecting?


That's why.

I'm not complaining because I care about my "crutch" staying "OP". I don't use cloak, I still have yet to use a cloak in a legitimate non-staged testing match in DUST. I think the cloak is relatively balanced because players using it DON'T HAVE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER ME. It doesn't give someone an advantage that I can't negate with my own tools, therefore it's not OP. It's at least relatively balanced, and it works well.

My complaint isn't that the cloak is perfect and doesn't need any attention. I take issue with a MASSIVE step to nerf something that's already frequently and easily countered, when a lot of people have pushed VERY heavily for CCP to focus on making SMALL changes and OBSERVING rather than shoving balance off the opposite side of the cliff to where it was perched previously.

Please keep it civil, we already aligned our strategy before I saw this post, so don't take credit for it.

I'm sorry.

When I see something that looks SOO amazingly correct at first, then leads into something that looks so wrong to me, I can't help getting a bit worked up.

I wasn't meaning to be rude, just extremely, EXTREMELY emphatic about the points I disagreed with because they contrasted so harshly with how good most of the proposed changes looked.

And don't worry, even though I proposed the same thing I said about cloaks in this thread many times in the past (I think this was one of the earlier ones), I'm not going to take credit for something which I view as a less-sensible version of my proposal. I can appreciate that other people's feedback - much of it more recent and more timely for this instance - was probably a larger contribution than my own inconsistent posts on the forums have been lately.

As for AV weapons, I'm still confused about AV Grenades being altered when nerfing them in the first place had actually been one of the better changes when it happened. I don't think AV Grenades should be treated as a primary AV weapon, and never have thought that. As things stand right now, they're already a suitable weapon to support proper AV weapons, which is all they should be doing. Fixing Swarms should, imo, be a much higher priority than "fixing" the not-broken AV Grenades.

Sorry again, not for what I'm saying, but for getting more aggressive about my points than was possibly necessary. And more importantly, thank you very much for listening to community feedback even when it's being presented in an occasionally overly-aggressive manner. Please know that we only get worked up because WE CARE ABOUT THE GAME TOO.

There is a balance between a new proto and a fully fitting optimized proto (meaning specalized). The latter should be what you described as generally being able to fit all slots proto.

No hard feelings , but like I said in the Numbers thread intro, we were not comfortable with doing swarms on top of these other AV changes, precisely the behavior you have been advocating .

I actually think AV grenades should be a valuable part of the medium frames arsenal, and a careless tank should be severely affected by his eagerness to attack multiple infantry targets, especially in close quarters such as bridges and in between buildings. That is also why we are reducing the efficiency of the normal Locus. It's the go to grenade because it is easy and doesn't reward specialization.

minmitar scout will be screwed with the changes to the cloak as is now a minmitar needs 2 complex damps and the damp from the cloak to hide from a cal scout with 2 precision mods, minmitar is already the weakest scout and you are forcing it to use 3 complex damps therfore using all of its low slots and losing its main advantage of being able to fit a kin cat and go fast. the minmitar already has major PG problems due to shields taking up a massive amount of its pg and the insane pg requirements for kin cats. honestly i'd love to see how a dev would fit a minmitar scout im very curious if any of you actually play the role.

minmitar scout will be screwed with the changes to the cloak as is now a minmitar needs 2 complex damps and the damp from the cloak to hide from a cal scout with 2 precision mods, minmitar is already the weakest scout and you are forcing it to use 3 complex damps therfore using all of its low slots and losing its main advantage of being able to fit a kin cat and go fast. the minmitar already has major PG problems due to shields taking up a massive amount of its pg and the insane pg requirements for kin cats. honestly i'd love to see how a dev would fit a minmitar scout im very curious if any of you actually play the role.

Allow breach mass drivers to do full damage to vehicles, hold 4 rounds and bump the direct damage while removing splash.

Why not all mass drivers variants? Their rounds are approximately equal in dmg to swarms.

I think that scouts should go back to the slot layout they had before 1.8. Two equipment slots make scouts too versatile. I think scouts should have to pick whether or not the cloak is worth it because as it stands right now scouts are able to always have a cloak while also sporting another equipment. I also think that the module slot layout should be reduced by one. Three at standard, four at advanced and five at prototype. Three low slots on a standard Gallente scout is a little ridiculous in my opinion. I honestly believe that the 1.8 slot layout of scout suits are a primary reason for their overuse.

Another solution to make the Minmatar and Amarr scouts more appealing could be to keep their slot layout while changing the slot layout of the Gallente and Caldari scouts.

Is it possible to know dates of this hotfix alpha?