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Sargon Akkadi wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

First bravo on the input-action of this thread

CCP Rattati wrote:

GÇóWe are removing the dampening effect of the cloak. If you want to to be truly invisible, both to the eye and scanners, you must specialize and sacrifice slots to do so.

Whether this is the intended goal or not, this in particular hurts caldari and minmatar scouts and majorly buffs gallente and slightly buffs amarr.

I can already tell you the meta.

Cal scouts barely had the ability to hide and only for a little bit, with that being removed, I'd suspect any dampening on the cal scout will be inferior to just plating or range extenders. The min scout has the unfortunate side effect of having relatively few low slots with a low slot specialization Ugh

, I suspect its going to suffer the same problem amarr scouts pre alpha patch in that the gallente just do it better (or on the same level with more utility) based entirely on reduction vs booting stat modules effects and that dampening is a competitive stat (against precision) and hacking is not, which just leaves NKing which is extremely niche.

I am split about this, but am leaning to agree with Mr. Rehnquist. The Gal scout definitely benefits comparative to other scouts, as they can still be easily damped down with their bonus. There is also losing the neat bit about profile changing based on actions in game (made even more interesting with a shortened cloak duration). Cal scouts benefit slightly as it buffs the usefulness of their precision, but that does not counter-balance the de-buff on dampening. Maybe the dampening effect of the cloak can simply be reduced so as not to equal a complex damp?

Other changes to cloak make sense, and along with the changes to armor tanking can alter the tank-slayer-scout FOTM that pervades. Of course, the Devil is in the details. Thanks for sharing this info with us Ratatatati

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 84	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:11:00 - [121] - Quote Atiim wrote: anaboop wrote: Tanks are ok, yeah whatever, your data is wrong. Ive be patient long enough Give vehicle command, turrents and upgrades respec and see how many bother speccing into them over again. I bet they get the bare minimum and run those ****** up militia tanks. Then trying claiming they are good where they are. Then would you like to supply non-anecdotal data of your own? Rebalancing does not constitute Respec. No other item that received a nerf received a respec (including AV), so I'm not quite sure what makes you entitled to one. I dont see any of his data, I don't see why I should even bother. Considering nothing will be done anyway. Its laughable that you think I was asking for, even that i was hoping to get a respec. I was stating that hardly anyone thats fully specced In to tanks at the moment will bother speccing back into them if they did. While you just get a militia tank and slap militia gear on and be just as good. Wipe your nose its a little brown. Take care there byebye then. Fully sick Anaboop trading card
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1058	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:12:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, . . . Yours, CCP Rattati That is actually a very good plan. It seems now that there is a thought to the changes, and I'm especially happy to see that it seems that the tuning work is not going to be overkill. Good job so far - eager to see the results. :-S
Grimmiers 562	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:28:00 - [123] - Quote Are you able to add a delay to the burst combat rifle because if you feather the trigger it becomes a stronger assault combat rifle. Also you should think about increasing the breach ar rof to around 500 without increasing the damage. I do like a lot of these changes though. I can't wait to see the new armor repair mods and changes to the small blaster.
Lord Tug C0NFUCIUS 93	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:34:00 - [124] - Quote Only issue I have with this is the clone packs - 150 clones for 20/25 million isk is all that needs to be done with them . Raising their price will make it even harder to break into PC especially for noobs with only corp tax as revenue . Other than that , good job all round !!!
Asb161 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 13	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:35:00 - [125] - Quote the Tank VS Tank Battles Suck what ever massive tank you put on your tank still get taken out by rail gun very fast in 2 or 3 shots.... there no time to react
Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 658	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:36:00 - [126] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Wolfica wrote: never understood the idea of nurfing the PG/CPU of a suit or changing the modules req so that even with max skills you cant fit what you want on your proto suit. that's the change that needs to be done is figure out a way so that at lvl 1 you can fit anything at standard lvl you want, then be able to fit anything at lvl 3 on a advanced suit, then once you have everything at lvl 5 you should be able to use EVERY slot with PROTO gear. what is the reasoning behind giving a proto suit a bunch of slots if you cant even use all of them. and really, slowing down armor stacked suits even more?... can we atleast get the ability to step onto ledges 3cm high? since its already imposible to get over the ledge from A-B ramp, on research facility. There is a balance between a new proto and a fully fitting optimized proto (meaning specalized). The latter should be what you described as generally being able to fit all slots proto. I don't necessarily agree with the fact that you need to be able to fit ALL proto on a proto suit, though sometimes the fitting choices you have to make feel absolutely ridiculous considering how may skillpoints and how much isk that suit costs... However, I do disagree with your "fully fitting optimized" concept, as it doesn't actually happen in reality. After maxing out Core upgrades and engineering, there is no way to squeeze out more PG other than weapon fitting optimization skills, which give you at LVL 5 between 1 and, what, 4 PG, depending on the weapon. At least there are a few more options for shaving off a few CPU off your weapons and grenades. Trust me, being able to fit all proto even on a proto suit isn't often possible even at maxed fitting skills. This is part of the reason why basic armour plates are so popular, they are so very easy to fit in your last one or two slots that you can't fit anything else in after fitting the stuff you actually want on your suit. But I guess we won't even have that once you increase the fitting costs on them. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
KingBabar MAG was better... 2531	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:50:00 - [127] - Quote So, nothing on the HMG pushback effect? Its what I hear the most QQ about when I play.... FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1415	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:03:00 - [128] - Quote Actually, the slowdown effect was discussed at length today. We hope to have an update on that pretty soon. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1148	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:08:00 - [129] - Quote CCP please look into the Caldari Scout hitbox. The hit detection is sooo off, they can outstrafe anything without being hit. Given that most used weapons have bonus to armour but still this needs testing. Use a militia caldari scout in a dom with no skills and basic combat rifle and get a 5.0 KDR
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13615	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:08:00 - [130] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Actually, the slowdown effect was discussed at length today. We hope to have an update on that pretty soon. Please kill it off entirely. It's the most disgusting mechanic. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1

Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 4831	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:19:00 - [131] - Quote This is good. However, with the removal of the damp bonus to cloaks, Gal Scouts will reign supreme. Min scouts? Just dump the cloak. Focus on speed rather than avoiding scans. At 10.38 or 11.11m/s, nobody can catch you anyways. Headed to Destiny, to Hell with CCP PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Pr0phetzReck0ning KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Lokun Listamenn 230	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:20:00 - [132] - Quote In Regards to Planetary Conquest Clone Packs: Give people options with the clone packs. I'm not sure if that was what you were touching upon but create 3 seperate clone packs. Each pack had an increase in clones as well as ISK, which would allow Corps to go all out in hopefully taking a district in one attack as opposed to multiple attacks across multiple days. High risk High reward, if you have the ISK to do it you should be able to.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 986	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:38:00 - [133] - Quote Looks great! Best Idea For Legion
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 169	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:38:00 - [134] - Quote What is the ETA for HA? AKA - StarVenger
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 883	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:44:00 - [135] - Quote \o/ Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Kain Spero 3563	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:45:00 - [136] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Planetary Conquest Overall, these are our objectives to reduce district locking and risk free ISK accumulation GÇóDecrease/remove passive ISK generation GÇóIncrease ISK payouts from battles GÇóIncrease Clone Pack Prices and number of clones in a Clone Pack The idea here should be that if you want to make ISK, you should fight and consume clones. We also want clone packs to be a viable method of breaking into Planetary Conquest, but not useful for launching every attack you make; using clones you own should be the better option. A shift to active ISK generation is long overdue. As is a shift from a top down payments to a bottom up approach by utilizing increased biomass payouts. The increase in clone pack price would only need to be relative to the increase in size, so for every 10 clones to the pack you added the price would go up by 3 million ISK. That is unless their needs to be an increase in cost due to an increase in biomass payments. The balance always has to lean towards not allowing corps to self attack with clone packs, destroy the clone pack, and as a result farm isk or lock out their district at a low cost. Also, corporations have been wasting far more ISK on clone packs that have a high probability of failure. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3116	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:45:00 - [137] - Quote Seriously dont buff the AR damage. Just buff the rate of fire from it up to 800 or more instead. Not sure about the increasd cost for plates yet but on the other hand i could get more reps and the reduction from PG+CPU on specialised plates is needed to make them viable.
sumhaigai The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 4	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:06:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: GÇóAdding new weapons and dropsuits with existing functionality, changing weapon damage, dropsuit hp and slots, pg and cpu values, and most of the values needed for balancing items and roles can be changed during server downtime. CCP Rattati wrote: GÇóWe will do a normalizing pass on PG/CPU on a few dropsuits; Sentinels in general have a lot of PG/CPU and Basic Heavies are a little out of sync. However, this likely wonGÇÿt make it into Hotfix Alpha because it warrants a deeper dive. would you be able to at least just change the basic heavy cpu and pg because right now its only the basic amarr heavy that has the proper values
smoking the kind RestlessSpirits 41	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:22:00 - [139] - Quote I like all of the proposed changes, it is a good start any way. The one thing I am concerned about would be no grenades from a nano hive. Just what ever you do dont give in to the crying scouts, they need to be afraid in this game because they are scouts, they had there fun being the OP FOTM but it is time to make them scouts again instead of the go to assault class. Thank you CCP Rattati, we could have used this type of communications with the player base a year ago
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1148	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:23:00 - [140] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: ^^ What he said. This coupled with the hit detection of cal scouts, it will be crazy OP

Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 175	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:36:00 - [141] - Quote There may be hope yet at some sort of balance! Thank you ccp rattati! I don't want any one fit, rifle, or mod to dominate the entire game ever again?! My contribution to my team shouldn't be silenceD because I'm at a constant disadvantage to an entire class?! I may run assault again now that the scouts won't be beating me in literally every aspect from speed to protection! Awesome stuff I can wait to log in! "Anybody order chaos?"
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 154	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:39:00 - [142] - Quote Has anyone considered looking at the price of ADS recently? 500K seems a little high when a tank goes for 240K
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4714	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:43:00 - [143] - Quote These would be interesting changes if they weren't being administered to a terminal game. RIP Stinky Sleeve. RIP Dust514. See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Lokun Listamenn 118	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:44:00 - [144] - Quote Quote: We are reducing locus damage and normalizing damage progression to make grenade specialization more worthwhile. So you're going to nerf flux grenades as well I assume? "Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers." - Unknown
RedPencil DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:45:00 - [145] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: First bravo on the input-action of this thread CCP Rattati wrote: GÇóWe are removing the dampening effect of the cloak. If you want to to be truly invisible, both to the eye and scanners, you must specialize and sacrifice slots to do so. Whether this is the intended goal or not, this in particular hurts caldari and minmatar scouts and majorly buffs gallente and slightly buffs amarr. I can already tell you the meta. Cal scouts barely had the ability to hide and only for a little bit, with that being removed, I'd suspect any dampening on the cal scout will be inferior to just plating or range extenders. The min scout has the unfortunate side effect of having relatively few low slots with a low slot specialization , I suspect its going to suffer the same problem amarr scouts pre alpha patch in that the gallente just do it better (or on the same level with more utility) based entirely on reduction vs booting stat modules effects and that dampening is a competitive stat (against precision) and hacking is not, which just leaves NKing which is extremely niche. I think min scout will suffer even more. Min low tier will have to drop code break to equip 2 damp and lost speed hack ability.
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 10	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:51:00 - [146] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Weapons GÇóWe will be increasing the damage of the Plasma Assault Rifle and reducing the Combat RifleGÇÿs damage a little, nothing dramatic. Rail Rifles and Scrambler Rifles will not be changed in this hotfix, but weGÇÿll keep an eye on them. WeGÇÿre not making massive changes here as we expect the armor changes will have an impact on rifle usage due to the damage profiles. GÇóWe are increasing the damage of the PLC against vehicles, to help provide more options for anti-vehicle work using light weapons but we are also looking at adding Plasma Cannon variants at a later stage. The Forge Gun will remain as the strongest infantry AV weapon in each tier. GÇóWe are reducing locus damage and normalizing damage progression to make grenade specialization more worthwhile. And still no love for sniper rifles. (and let the antisniper trolling begin) "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 689	Posted - 2014.05.22 15:04:00 - [147] - Quote So....Armor plates are nerfed. With bigger speed penality. And during this time Amarr suits which was based on it (and was already underdog, look your stats Amarr dropsuits are by far the least used) received NOTHING to compensate. And are now even MORE slower ? While gallente received better repair and PG/CPU reduced cost for other plates. So...Another nerf for Amarr suits ? Commando Amarr is the less used. And you say the fact Armor Module is nerf will help him to increase his damage ? (So..in fact you did nothing to help it....) Do you realize Amarr Commando was based on Armor plate...so you just nerfed it even MORE ? Amarr scout, you know he's useless but you don't do nothing. Amarr scrambler rifle, you know it actually suck, but you don't do nothing. Okay so Amarr which was totally the worst side of Dust 514 is now EVEN WORSE ?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5710	Posted - 2014.05.22 15:07:00 - [148] - Quote After some debate in Skype and some re-consideration, here's what I have to say about the proposed PC changes: I say that it shouldn't be completely removed because it takes away the incentive to actually hold territory and making a 100% active-battle based system could potentially encourage PC entities to lock down their districts with blues. People are just going to fight their friends in non-competitive matches to farm biomass, probably with a bunch of BPO gear. Another consideration is what happens when one alliance wins, owns a bunch of turf and then has no-one left to fight? Are they expected to just give it away free of charge so they can immediately take it all back in order to get ISK? I'm down for reducing the passive ISK income to pathetic levels as it still gives some incentive to holding territory besides "waiting for someone to come and fight us". Still puts something in the corp wallet and motivates new entities to get out there. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
headbust Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 13	Posted - 2014.05.22 15:08:00 - [149] - Quote Sargon Akkadi wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: First bravo on the input-action of this thread CCP Rattati wrote: GÇóWe are removing the dampening effect of the cloak. If you want to to be truly invisible, both to the eye and scanners, you must specialize and sacrifice slots to do so. Whether this is the intended goal or not, this in particular hurts caldari and minmatar scouts and majorly buffs gallente and slightly buffs amarr. I can already tell you the meta. Cal scouts barely had the ability to hide and only for a little bit, with that being removed, I'd suspect any dampening on the cal scout will be inferior to just plating or range extenders. The min scout has the unfortunate side effect of having relatively few low slots with a low slot specialization , I suspect its going to suffer the same problem amarr scouts pre alpha patch in that the gallente just do it better (or on the same level with more utility) based entirely on reduction vs booting stat modules effects and that dampening is a competitive stat (against precision) and hacking is not, which just leaves NKing which is extremely niche. I am split about this, but am leaning to agree with Mr. Rehnquist. The Gal scout definitely benefits comparative to other scouts, as they can still be easily damped down with their bonus. There is also losing the neat bit about profile changing based on actions in game (made even more interesting with a shortened cloak duration). Cal scouts benefit slightly as it buffs the usefulness of their precision, but that does not counter-balance the de-buff on dampening. Maybe the dampening effect of the cloak can simply be reduced so as not to equal a complex damp? Other changes to cloak make sense, and along with the changes to armor tanking can alter the tank-slayer-scout FOTM that pervades. Of course, the Devil is in the details. Thanks for sharing this info with us Ratatatati the gallente scouts role is to be a dampening king the caldari is the scanner i play both roles so i see both sides but in all truthness 90% of gal scouts dont run much dampening modules i almost always have two on but others dont use any so the caldari scout running some complex scanners and 1 dampener will pick up almost everything and still hide from everything but another cal scout if u run a scout like a SCOUT u will be surprised how good it is a scout = once you turn your back on me you'll never be able to look back
Castor Crave Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 542	Posted - 2014.05.22 15:15:00 - [150] - Quote This sounds good so far. Any chance of getting a range fix for the Bolt Pistol in as well?



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