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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Sargon Akkadi wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Oswald Rehnquist wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

I am generally in favor of most of this, especially the removal of dampening from cloaks; players should not be able to tank ridiculous amounts of HP and still be so protected from scans, yet currently the cloak allows one to have the effect of a complex dampener without having to make the low slot sacrifice. Thank you for the dampening bonus removal.

You'd throw an entire system of balanced of cat and mouse gameplay between scouts rather than just directly attack/cut the root of the problem which is scout ehp or offense potential?

Scouts needed a shave, and out of the original scouts, most of them saw me as rather draconian in regards to unpopular slayer scout nerfs, but the worst possible way of shaving was done here and the scout meta just went out the door. By nerfing ewar (in this case dampening), I'm stuck with having to ignore dampening on the cal scout (thus more slayer scouts) or in regards to the min scout switching to gallente.

Gal scout will still be the hiders, but will rely more on damapeners to maintain their current stealth (meaning less plates)
Cal scouts will still be the seekers, 1 low slot at standard, and 2 low slots at advanced to fit dampeners for stealth.
Minmatar scouts have 2 low slots at standard.
Use those low slots. It only takes 1 complex dampener to match the current cloak dampening bonus.

I don't see how this breaks the balance of scouts. Last I checked you don't need 3+ complex dampeners work of profile reduction to be a viable scout.

There was never any reason for cloaks to have the dampening bonus to begin with.

The cat and mouse actually does call for 3+ dampeners at the highest levels for countering CalScouts and GalLogis. 4 is not enough for a non-galscout to actually get below top precision without the cloak bonus, since it rounds up. This really kills Cal and Min scout (at least in a scout role) at the highest levels of play.

Not every single scout (mouse) is meant to be the mouse, the stealth oriented scout is the Gallente.
The detector (cat) is the Caldari
The speed hacker is the Minmatar

I don't see why every single scout need be equally as good when it comes to evading scans, they have different strengths for a reason.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5385	Posted - 2014.05.22 05:34:00 - [1] - Quote Aaaaaand Gallente scouts pulls further ahead as king scout. Most everything else I'll comment on once I see some numbers. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5387	Posted - 2014.05.22 05:46:00 - [2] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: While Cal and Min scouts have less low slots, they still have low slots. Might mean you may have to sacrifice a kinkat. Trust me when I say I know the scout fitting meta better, and kincats have nothing to play into this equation, its the precision v damping meta game. I agree. There is no reason to go anything but gallente now. Caldari maybe as a spotter but it's going to be an absolutely terrible scout. The only worthwhile scout is going to be the gallente. My minmatar scout is already pretty worthless as it is. It's only good for spawning in, hacking something, then dying. There's literally no reason to run it otherwise. With a nerf to the cloak dampening you're making every scout but the Gallente competitive. PC will now be like 12 gallente scouts instead of 6 caldari, 5 gallente and one minmatar. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5388	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:01:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Sargon Akkadi wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Oswald Rehnquist wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I am generally in favor of most of this, especially the removal of dampening from cloaks; players should not be able to tank ridiculous amounts of HP and still be so protected from scans, yet currently the cloak allows one to have the effect of a complex dampener without having to make the low slot sacrifice. Thank you for the dampening bonus removal. You'd throw an entire system of balanced of cat and mouse gameplay between scouts rather than just directly attack/cut the root of the problem which is scout ehp or offense potential? Scouts needed a shave, and out of the original scouts, most of them saw me as rather draconian in regards to unpopular slayer scout nerfs, but the worst possible way of shaving was done here and the scout meta just went out the door. By nerfing ewar (in this case dampening), I'm stuck with having to ignore dampening on the cal scout (thus more slayer scouts) or in regards to the min scout switching to gallente. Gal scout will still be the hiders, but will rely more on damapeners to maintain their current stealth (meaning less plates) Cal scouts will still be the seekers, 1 low slot at standard, and 2 low slots at advanced to fit dampeners for stealth. Minmatar scouts have 2 low slots at standard. Use those low slots. It only takes 1 complex dampener to match the current cloak dampening bonus. I don't see how this breaks the balance of scouts. Last I checked you don't need 3+ complex dampeners work of profile reduction to be a viable scout. There was never any reason for cloaks to have the dampening bonus to begin with. The cat and mouse actually does call for 3+ dampeners at the highest levels for countering CalScouts and GalLogis. 4 is not enough for a non-galscout to actually get below top precision without the cloak bonus, since it rounds up. This really kills Cal and Min scout (at least in a scout role) at the highest levels of play. Not every single scout (mouse) is meant to be the mouse, the stealth oriented scout is the Gallente. The detector (cat) is the Caldari The speed hacker is the Minmatar I don't see why every single scout need be equally as good when it comes to evading scans, they have different strengths for a reason. Do you even PC? Not to sound like a d-bag but this nerf will make all but one scout viable in a competitive setting. We can see the future of the meta. Trust us on this. This will further bring the gallente out as THE scout suit. Every other scout suit is worthless (sans the Caldari). Even in PC the awesome hackspeed of a minmatar is absolutely worthless because the suit is worthless. The bonus doesn't make up for the suit sucking. Gallente scout will return to being the only viable scout suit in PC. Calling it. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5391	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:50:00 - [4] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Quote: GÇóWe are removing the dampening effect of the cloak. If you want to to be truly invisible, both to the eye and scanners, you must specialize and sacrifice slots to do so. I can't stress enough how bad an idea this is. The result will end up pushing more and more scouts towards Gallente as they become the only suit capable of staying undetected. The ability to share enemy location data is far superior that to be able to conceal that information. You might as well just make all suits visible on screen 100% of the time, there is no balanced to EWar. There is just the Gallente Scout and everything else now. The idea is so bad you know it's going to go through. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5432	Posted - 2014.05.22 20:16:00 - [5] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: What is this... I don't even.... Why are you touching min suits.... they're the worst of all the suits. I agree. The Min Commando nerf seems random and a nerf for the sake of nerfing something. I'd love to see some data to support why it is bad that the Min Commando is faster than armor tanked medium frames. Speed is what keeps these crappy Minmatar suits alive. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5439	Posted - 2014.05.22 21:13:00 - [6] - Quote Yknow what? Can my flaylock finally get a buff into usefulness? maybe? What about the terrible PG on all Minmatar scout suits? Will this be addressed as well? I hope these will be taken into consideration as they are very much needed. I hope this isn't just a "nerf all Minmatar things" patch. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5458	Posted - 2014.05.23 02:57:00 - [7] - Quote I mentioned this in the gallente scout thread but you guys should consider placing a turn cap if it's possible. Currently people are still 360 scanning. I see it all the time. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.