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Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 335	Posted - 2014.04.20 03:47:00 - [1] - Quote This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their ***** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2794	Posted - 2014.04.20 03:54:00 - [2] - Quote You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
BLOOD Ruler Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2014.04.20 03:59:00 - [3] - Quote He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 382	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:01:00 - [4] - Quote Assaults need Love. Cloaks need Polish. But first, fix what's broken. Fix Tanks and AV. Bang?
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2795	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:01:00 - [5] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 344	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:09:00 - [6] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 961	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:25:00 - [7] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. Well they wont have so much armor now will they? Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you! Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 344	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:28:00 - [8] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. Well they wont have so much armor now will they? True, but I don't still don't see how cloaks are bad, it's just the brick-tanked scouts that make people angry. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Operative 2511 Dajli True Companion Planetary Requisitions 29	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:33:00 - [9] - Quote I'd like to know why the same people that b*tch about snipers, which are perfectly visible if you can spot them, but think cloak is ok. Judge proved what some of us are already able to admit. The shimmer is not loading correctly like it is supposed to in order to allow the cloaker to be identified. The cloak wouldn't be OP if the shimmer loaded like it should. I've been seeing a big contrast from game to game with this with me in my Gal scout suit against other Gal scouts. Lol, the ban hammer got me!
Gaurdian Satyr Glitched Connection 135	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:35:00 - [10] - Quote "people are you to just looking at their radars" You get radars are broken right? You cant see a tank next to you unless your looking at it -holds arms in O- throw it in the story basket bro

g65l Expert Intervention Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:36:00 - [11] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. Don't be stupid I drop remote explosives and make them go boom,sure I may die but I took the dumb ass with me.So who cares as long as they have eggs on their face or,Also satisfied with a messed up face
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 40	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:37:00 - [12] - Quote g65l wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. Don't be stupid I drop remote explosives and make them go boom,sure I may die but I took the dumb ass with me.So who cares as long as they have eggs on their face or,Also satisfied with a messed up face Sorry wrong toon. What G6 or me said
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 44	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:40:00 - [13] - Quote Also I may do the whole room scan thing,you know checking the corners and stuff just top be safe
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 559	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:43:00 - [14] - Quote Cloak is easy mode. I should be the proof of that. Before 1.8 i have played a scout for maybe 20 minutes. Now with cloaks in 1.8 i am a beast when i run my cheap BP dragonfly suit with only a shotgun and a cloak (not enough pg or cpu to fit anything else) Running this ultra squishy dropsuit that has under 250 hps i typically go 20/2 So tell me again how such a combination is balanced? I cant tell you how many times i have run right past enemy players and they do not notice me. The shimmer probably does not work properly otherwise i am sure they would have at least taken a second look. Remember people in a FPS lagg also plays a huge part of the game a shimmer effect might actually happen on a players screen far too late for them to actually ever see the shimmer. Granted i like having this suite because the only things i pay for on it are the shotgun and cloak so its ultra cheap and i get pretty nice war points running it. However i think something should be done to make it more possible to counter a cloak. Situation awareness is not it.
excillon Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 374	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:52:00 - [15] - Quote I could care less about cloaks. Don't use them, don't care. Only complaint I have is if you shoot someone, their cloak should drop.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 963	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:12:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) The fact that you can fire while cloaked is my only real complaint with cloaks. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you! Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 51	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:17:00 - [17] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Cloak is easy mode. I should be the proof of that. Before 1.8 i have played a scout for maybe 20 minutes. Now with cloaks in 1.8 i am a beast when i run my cheap BP dragonfly suit with only a shotgun and a cloak (not enough pg or cpu to fit anything else) Running this ultra squishy dropsuit that has under 250 hps i typically go 20/2 So tell me again how such a combination is balanced? I cant tell you how many times i have run right past enemy players and they do not notice me. The shimmer probably does not work properly otherwise i am sure they would have at least taken a second look. Remember people in a FPS lagg also plays a huge part of the game a shimmer effect might actually happen on a players screen far too late for them to actually ever see the shimmer. Granted i like having this suite because the only things i pay for on it are the shotgun and cloak so its ultra cheap and i get pretty nice war points running it. However i think something should be done to make it more possible to counter a cloak. Situation awareness is not it. Well in that case your enemies must have been to focus on someone more visible and they suck hard.I can see now am more aware of where is that guy oh he;s right shotgun to ya face oooooooooooooohhhohhhhh. Ya you use your eyes everyone use your eyes and stop being Bit****
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 325	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:18:00 - [18] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their *** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. get gud eat gmo carrot like bugs bunneh carotene so good for ur eyes to see running clacking scout in clear ***** sky
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 559	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:30:00 - [19] - Quote People that so fiercely defend cloaks saying that they are balanced are funny as hell. O ya use your eyes. What you think people playing this game suddenly become selectively blind? Come on get your mind out of neutral and actually engage your brain. If someone actually sees a shimmer they sure as heck are going to pop a shot off at it. It is re-producible that the cloak doesn't even drop fully by the time a scout can fire. So what makes you think there isnt also some sort of issue where the shimmer sometimes might not even be on the other players screen? Clearly being able to shoot before de-cloaked is not working as intended. But you cloak fanboys are just going to defend it tooth and nail because you can not possibly consider any thing else and you want to vainly believe that it is actually your superior tactics ( LOL! ) that enable you to get so many kills with so few losses. I am willing to admit using cloak and shotgun is a easy mode crutch when i use it.
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 2774	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:39:00 - [20] - Quote I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete

BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 57	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:41:00 - [21] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: People that so fiercely defend cloaks saying that they are balanced are funny as hell. O ya use your eyes. What you think people playing this game suddenly become selectively blind? Come on get your mind out of neutral and actually engage your brain. If someone actually sees a shimmer they sure as heck are going to pop a shot off at it. It is re-producible that the cloak doesn't even drop fully by the time a scout can fire. So what makes you think there isnt also some sort of issue where the shimmer sometimes might not even be on the other players screen? Clearly being able to shoot before de-cloaked is not working as intended. But you cloak fanboys are just going to defend it tooth and nail because you can not possibly consider any thing else and you want to vainly believe that it is actually your superior tactics ( LOL! ) that enable you to get so many kills with so few losses. I am willing to admit using cloak and shotgun is a easy mode crutch when i use it. What a dumb ass even without the cloak,All I need is a Damper,and a shotgun to kill ya Cloaks are just so scouts stop turning into useless sniper players in a match who hardly get any kills when they should let the pros deal with that now we have them doing something.All it does is encourage them moron. Think of a 600hp scout with more hp without the cloak what a dump ass
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3506	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:53:00 - [22] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. Well, look at the situation in reverse. You ask how you're supposed to counter the Cal scout, but you never bother to ask how the Cal scout is supposed to counter you. The reality is that the Cal scout IS your counter, and you're the counter to everything else. You aren't supposed to counter the cal scout. You're supposed to accept the fact that at least one entity out there is going to hunt you down and kill you. And you are supposed to be comfortable with that because its exactly what you do to every other suit in the game.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 346	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:57:00 - [23] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. Well, look at the situation in reverse. You ask how you're supposed to counter the Cal scout, but you never bother to ask how the Cal scout is supposed to counter you. The reality is that the Cal scout IS your counter, and you're the counter to everything else. You aren't supposed to counter the cal scout. You're supposed to accept the fact that at least one entity out there is going to hunt you down and kill you. And you are supposed to be comfortable with that because its exactly what you do to every other suit in the game. Well good thing we have gal scouts right? =P "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3506	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:58:00 - [24] - Quote Indeed. I don't think there are many scouts out there who don't believe Gal scout is too good at what he does.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 346	Posted - 2014.04.20 06:03:00 - [25] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Indeed. I don't think there are many scouts out there who don't believe Gal scout is too good at what he does. What I don't understand about the Gal scout is how it can be just as fast as the Min scout and have much better survivability/bonuses than the Min scout. One of the main issues that hinders the Min is the pg usage, which severely gimps the Min since it has the least. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 610	Posted - 2014.04.20 06:05:00 - [26] - Quote The way cloaks were intended to work is fine. The way they actually function in game due to bugs makes them overpowered. One such bug was demonstrated in Judge's video in case 4. When several cloak users on the forums claim that these bugs don't exist and that cloaks are perfectly fine, I can't help but think that they've turned cloaks into their crutch. After all, they are insisting that their toy which is broken in a manner that favors them isn't broken. -_- As for the whole scouts brick tanking, that's another issue I cover in the link below. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Seymor Krelborn L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2008	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:01:00 - [27] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable THIS THIS THIS^^^^^^ SO THIS! slayer scouts with cloaks are a travesty to this game... that's the problem and it needs fixing... my suggestion is adding a piece of ewar equipment that can either track cloaked mercs or deactivates any in close proximity to the ewar tool... or flux to deactivate. this game makes me sad....
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:18:00 - [28] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Because while standing still, THERE'S STILL A FAINT SHIMMER. Cloaked players AREN'T completely invisible, and better yet, YOUR CROSSHAIRS STILL LIGHT UP WHEN YOU AIM AT THEM, just in case you miss the obvious player outline. If they're hiding "around the corner" then you do what you already had to do for uncloaked and dampened Scouts, and LOOK AROUND THE CORNER IN CASE THERE'S A HIDDEN SCOUT. Quote: Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. Or, you know, be COMPETENT and quickly pan across an area a little above ground level while watching for the crosshairs to turn red. You can accurately cover over 50m in less than a second if you're armed with any Rifle or pistol, or even the MagSec. The SMG is a little short of that range, and if you're running a Shotgun you need to be more alert to see cloakers in the distance. Quote: I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. I agree with REDUCING the dampening bonus, but not removing it - at least not as a fist step. They do need to rebalance the EWAR facet of the game though, at present it's too heavily weighted in favour of dampening. Dampened suits, with or without cloak, can become invisible to any detection method, and while that's fine, it's a little TOO easy for some suits to reach that level of complete invisibility.
ARF 1049 The Phoenix Federation Caps and Mercs 87	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:19:00 - [29] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Well the scouts who are watching objectives are doing there jobs, I did this looooong before 1.8 I sat at home point and watch the objective, it's my job in PC, even if he didn't have a cloak a smart scout will wait for you to start hacking my friend, the cloak just gave us more hiding places. "In rust you trust, so in rust you shall die."
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:27:00 - [30] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) The fact that you can fire while cloaked is my only real complaint with cloaks. Well, fortunately for everyone else, this only happens with glitches now. There's a very rarely-used glitch (the easy way got patched) where players can remain cloaked with their weapons drawn, but other than that, switching to your weapon IMMEDIATELY begins the decloak animation, which is visible before your weapon is in your hand and able to be used. While in the decloak animation, you're not 100% visible immediately, but you're more visible than even the brightest shimmer effect makes you. Players who are ACTUALLY INVISIBLE while shooting you are BEHIND YOU and would be invisible without a cloak. Also, there's a decloak sound (which could do with having its volume tweaked) which also plays IMMEDIATELY when you switch to your weapon. If it was playing consistently, and was loud enough to hear over gunfire, it would be a good warning sign that a cloaked player was appearing next to you.

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:31:00 - [31] - Quote medomai grey wrote: The way cloaks were intended to work is fine. The way they actually function in game due to bugs makes them overpowered. One such bug was demonstrated in Judge's video in case 4. You mean the one where you can see the cloaked Scout? Or the shot at the end where Judge points to the wrong part of the screen to try and prove the cloaked Scout is invisible? Case 3 was actually harder to spot the cloaked player in, and that was a situation where an uncloaked player would be almost invisible too. Quote: When several cloak users on the forums claim that these bugs don't exist and that cloaks are perfectly fine, I can't help but think that they've turned cloaks into their crutch. After all, they are insisting that their toy which is broken in a manner that favors them isn't broken. -_- And what do you call it when someone who's never equipped a cloak before is defending the cloak? Am I relying on it as a "crutch" too? By not using it, and frequently killing cloaked and freshly-decloaked players and only rarely being ACTUALLY caught off-guard (almost every instance of which has been my own mistake). Quote: As for the whole scouts brick tanking, that's another issue I cover in the link below. Is that one of the "buff Assaults" threads? I hope so, because Assaults do need a buff. Scouts are fine.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3508	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:35:00 - [32] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Indeed. I don't think there are many scouts out there who don't believe Gal scout is too good at what he does. What I don't understand about the Gal scout is how it can be just as fast as the Min scout and have much better survivability/bonuses than the Min scout. One of the main issues that hinders the Min is the pg usage, which severely gimps the Min since it has the least. In Dust I have always viewed the minmatar suits as the glass cannon, high-risk hard-mode suits of the game. They do offer some unique advantages, but they are typically much harder to use and survive in. It seems to me that is the intention by design, but there is no way the average player could really understand all of the downsides prior to spec'ing into one and understanding its restrictions. The Gal scout is by far the easiest to use. I'm not really sure what else can be said about it. It's just too good.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 560	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:41:00 - [33] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Thurak1 wrote: People that so fiercely defend cloaks saying that they are balanced are funny as hell. O ya use your eyes. What you think people playing this game suddenly become selectively blind? Come on get your mind out of neutral and actually engage your brain. If someone actually sees a shimmer they sure as heck are going to pop a shot off at it. It is re-producible that the cloak doesn't even drop fully by the time a scout can fire. So what makes you think there isnt also some sort of issue where the shimmer sometimes might not even be on the other players screen? Clearly being able to shoot before de-cloaked is not working as intended. But you cloak fanboys are just going to defend it tooth and nail because you can not possibly consider any thing else and you want to vainly believe that it is actually your superior tactics ( LOL! ) that enable you to get so many kills with so few losses. I am willing to admit using cloak and shotgun is a easy mode crutch when i use it. What a dumb ass even without the cloak,All I need is a Damper,and a shotgun to kill ya Cloaks are just so scouts stop turning into useless sniper players in a match who hardly get any kills when they should let the pros deal with that now we have them doing something.All it does is encourage them moron. Think of a 600hp scout with more hp without the cloak what a dump ass Were you attempting to make a point in here? I mean other than your scout having 600hps ( O i am so scared you have under half my hps ) If your visible you are toast especially if your trying to get close to me. I primarily play a heavy with a hmg go ahaid TRY charging at me!
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:48:00 - [34] - Quote g65l wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. Don't be stupid I drop remote explosives and make them go boom,sure I may die but I took the dumb ass with me.So who cares as long as they have eggs on their face or,Also satisfied with a messed up face award for most ridiculous response goes to this man weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:55:00 - [35] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Because while standing still, THERE'S STILL A FAINT SHIMMER. Cloaked players AREN'T completely invisible, and better yet, YOUR CROSSHAIRS STILL LIGHT UP WHEN YOU AIM AT THEM, just in case you miss the obvious player outline. If they're hiding "around the corner" then you do what you already had to do for uncloaked and dampened Scouts, and LOOK AROUND THE CORNER IN CASE THERE'S A HIDDEN SCOUT. Quote: Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. Or, you know, be COMPETENT and quickly pan across an area a little above ground level while watching for the crosshairs to turn red. You can accurately cover over 50m in less than a second if you're armed with any Rifle or pistol, or even the MagSec. The SMG is a little short of that range, and if you're running a Shotgun you need to be more alert to see cloakers in the distance. . I am going to record and post a video of how ridiculous and impractical it is to play a game scanning and looking for my crosshairs to turn red every time I leave and enter an area......or to look for "faint shimmers". My job for the entire game will be looking for these faint shimmers or cloaked scout clues instead of playing objectives. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2800	Posted - 2014.04.20 08:58:00 - [36] - Quote medomai grey wrote: The way cloaks were intended to work is fine. The way they actually function in game due to bugs makes them overpowered. One such bug was demonstrated in Judge's video in case 4. When several cloak users on the forums claim that these bugs don't exist and that cloaks are perfectly fine, I can't help but think that they've turned cloaks into their crutch. After all, they are insisting that their toy which is broken in a manner that favors them isn't broken. -_- As for the whole scouts brick tanking, that's another issue I cover in the link below. The way ARs, CRs, were intended to work was fine also. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 560	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:00:00 - [37] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Because while standing still, THERE'S STILL A FAINT SHIMMER. Cloaked players AREN'T completely invisible, and better yet, YOUR CROSSHAIRS STILL LIGHT UP WHEN YOU AIM AT THEM, just in case you miss the obvious player outline. If they're hiding "around the corner" then you do what you already had to do for uncloaked and dampened Scouts, and LOOK AROUND THE CORNER IN CASE THERE'S A HIDDEN SCOUT. Quote: Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. Or, you know, be COMPETENT and quickly pan across an area a little above ground level while watching for the crosshairs to turn red. You can accurately cover over 50m in less than a second if you're armed with any Rifle or pistol, or even the MagSec. The SMG is a little short of that range, and if you're running a Shotgun you need to be more alert to see cloakers in the distance. . I am going to record and post a video of how ridiculous and impractical it is to play a game scanning and looking for my crosshairs to turn red every time I leave and enter an area......or to look for "faint shimmers". My job for the entire game will be looking for these faint shimmers or cloaked scout clues instead of playing objectives. Lol yes clearly that is how one should be playing this game now with cloakers in it. What i really want to see is how often those shimmers don't show up... but we have no way to know if they should have showed up to start with. I guess we just have to trust in CCP's crack job at programming that the shimmer would be there if there was a moving scout ( LOL! ccp and crack programmers in same sentence ) Clearly now it is 100% our fault that we are not aware enough off our surroundings to spot a scout. Myself i would be happy if the cloak made a distinct noise when activated or de-activated like in TF2 :)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3508	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:07:00 - [38] - Quote It does though.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:10:00 - [39] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am going to record and post a video of how ridiculous and impractical it is to play a game scanning and looking for my crosshairs to turn red every time I leave and enter an area......or to look for "faint shimmers". My job for the entire game will be looking for these faint shimmers or cloaked scout clues instead of playing objectives. It literally takes less than a second to check the area for more than 50m ahead of yourself. And you can do it while at a full sprint, or while moving at normal speed, and keep a good eye out across a wide area in front of you. The only thing you need to change is to pan your viewpoint rather than keeping it fixed on a single point. When you're going into a high-risk location (only objectives, pretty much), it's worth taking a quick look around the area even WITHOUT cloaked enemies, to look for dampened Scouts or even some Logis who don't show up on your scanners. It's also worth checking objectives for REs (and with a lot of objectives, looking miles above the objective for the magical floating REs that should be on the objective and still explode like they are even if you have to shoot them up in the sky to make an explosion at ground level). I'm not seeing the problem.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:15:00 - [40] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: ( LOL! ccp and crack programmers in same sentence ) I don't see what's so funny. Feeding their programmers drugs might explain a few of the decisions I've seen CCP make. Quote: Myself i would be happy if the cloak made a distinct noise when activated or de-activated like in TF2 :) THERE IS ALREADY A SOUND WHEN DECLOAKING. The problem is that it needs more volume and higher priority. The sound frequently doesn't play when other sounds are audible, even when the cloaker is right next to you and the other sounds are faint and distant. It's also very quiet for everyone but the cloaker, even when they're close, and if you're shooting or there's any other nearby sound, you'll probably miss the decloak sound even when it does play. if they fix that, it'll improve things a lot.

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3512	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:18:00 - [41] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm not seeing the problem.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1331	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:19:00 - [42] - Quote I dont have problems with cloaks. but I have a problem when a scout suit can fit 770HP, proto weapons & proto equipment/cloak. RIP assault suit.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5178	Posted - 2014.04.20 09:26:00 - [43] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm not seeing the problem. I was hoping someone would pick that up.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 923	Posted - 2014.04.20 11:04:00 - [44] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. If they are behind you it doesn't matter if they use the cloak or not as scouts could hide from tac net before 1.8 just fine. Even the issue with brick tanked scouts is not as bad as peolpe make it. A brick tanked scout sacrifices a lot for that hp by the way much more than any shield tanker sacrifices for his HP. The movement penalty IS quite noticeable if you slap on multiple plates and believe it or not brick tanked scout are way easier to detect with a scanner. The only potential issue I see with the cloak is that the current implementation is favouring corner camping. And to all those that complain about brick tanked scouts have you ever thought about stealth tanked logis or speed tanked assaults or even heavies? If you find these fits ok why in hell are you complaining about brick tanked scouts? If you want a strict role definition thats close to classes dust may not the right game for you...
Retarn Dominus H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Lokun Listamenn 54	Posted - 2014.04.20 11:12:00 - [45] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. This is what i do and i'm a scout. What? You think your Complex armour plating on your sweet Proto will save you? Think again BOOM
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 571	Posted - 2014.04.20 11:21:00 - [46] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. I'll start with saying I could careless if any changes are made. BUT! If the dampening of cloaks was removed then all scouts would be forced to throw dampeners in their low slots rather than stacking ridiculous amounts of armor. This would hurt the Amarr scout the most. The Gal scout would still be fine, being able to use its bonus as an advantage while needing less dampeners as other suits so they can still armor tank, but not to ridiculous levels. As for the Minmatar scout, you're just pretty screwed all the way around. All in all I really could careless. CCP has proven time and again that they aren't capable of releasing new content into Dust without there being mass amounts of issues. The real focus needs to be on the ability to fire your weapon while still going through the de-cloaking process. Any good scout can get at least one shot off with a shotgun before they are fully uncloaked, I've seen some get two off (could be due to lag), which is enough to kill all but the most bricked tanked heavies. IMO you should have to be fully uncloaked before being able to fire your weapon. No "time" delay, no weapon switch delay, but a 100% deactivation of cloak effects before you're capable of firing your weapon. But hey, who cares. I'll deal with 2-3 shotgun to the back deaths per match rather than see CCP nerf the cloak to uselessness. You know because the whole CCP overnerf to everything they touch ordeal.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 387	Posted - 2014.04.20 11:25:00 - [47] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: slayer scouts with cloaks are a travesty to this game... that's the problem and it needs fixing... my suggestion is adding a piece of ewar equipment that can either track cloaked mercs or deactivates any in close proximity to the ewar tool... or flux to deactivate. Wrong: 1) Travesty? That's s a 'bit dramatic. Scouts are better, but still die fast when they fck up. 2) Tanks / AV are a good example of something "broken"; cloak needs polish, but it isn't broken. 3) PermaScan = EQ which defeats efforts to dampen / sneak. <----- Been here before (it was bad). Right: Flux v Cloak is a reasonable idea which was discussed at length in the Barbershop and in the CPM Cloak thread. Some folks fear it'd unduly strain M and C Scouts while encouraging Armor Tanking of G an A Scouts. Most folks favor adding a Chaff or EMP Grenades as counter-measure to Cloak. Bang?*
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 153	Posted - 2014.04.20 12:50:00 - [48] - Quote Stop bi!ching about cloaks. Adapt. I already do to hmgs killing throught walls. And what? Even without cloak, dampened scouts will shred you..so nerf damps? No. You still forget that you only need to turn around and OHK scout. (If its brick tanked, well thats ccp fault with plates not cloaks) Yes i defend cloaks, Im cal scout as my main (used to be calassault pre 1.8 ) , i need that bonus to hide from scans (i use 2damps). So yes , get gud.
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 3080	Posted - 2014.04.20 12:52:00 - [49] - Quote Brick tanked cloak scrubs are the problem I believe so we need to keep in mind that proper scouts are not the problem. I believe simply setting the CPU and pg cost for cloaks higher would help. That way its either brick tanked scrub or hidden scrub but not both. I have a scout alt with 17mil sp FYI, its amarr and I run either light assault or ninja fit depending on my squad composition. I have experimented and I can produce a fit that not only has better stats than an assault but it can also cloak. I know the amarr scout is supposed to be more assault oriented but seriously now lol. Its HP is slightly less but its quicker and can cloak with proto weapons. I do not use that fit though and deleted it after completing it, I cannot bring myself to run that easy mode bull sht and of course, it is proto amarr scout. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. The tritanium I sell is more relevant than dust has ever been.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 363	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:02:00 - [50] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. If they are behind you it doesn't matter if they use the cloak or not as scouts could hide from tac net before 1.8 just fine. Even the issue with brick tanked scouts is not as bad as peolpe make it. A brick tanked scout sacrifices a lot for that hp by the way much more than any shield tanker sacrifices for his HP. The movement penalty IS quite noticeable if you slap on multiple plates and believe it or not brick tanked scout are way easier to detect with a scanner. The only potential issue I see with the cloak is that the current implementation is favouring corner camping. And to all those that complain about brick tanked scouts have you ever thought about stealth tanked logis or speed tanked assaults or even heavies? If you find these fits ok why in hell are you complaining about brick tanked scouts? If you want a strict role definition thats close to classes dust may not the right game for you... Gallente's innate dampening, basic plates minor speed penalty and the scanner mechanics change really lessen your argument on that point. I also dont like this "if you are behind argument" being thrown around all the time. Pre 1.8 you had to work to get behind so that made sense. You dont have to work anymore - cloak, move and then attack. Cloak duration and ability have made many natural parts of scouting redundant. - You would never see the top scouts before until you are bleeding out, now anyone can sneak up on persons not using the Cal and Gal scouts. "Shine bright like a diamond"

RendonaSix In Aliena Amarr Legionem 76	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:06:00 - [51] - Quote I may as well post on my scout. So here's my light assault fit. Highs - 2 enh light damage mods Lows 2 enh armour reps, 2 enh plates but 1 might be basic Weapons - ishukone assault rail rifle, viziam scp, flux nades Equipment - stable uplink, std cloak (sp debt) I could swap out the repairs for 2 enh reactive plates or simply swap a repair for a plate. Either way, this is a disgustingly beasty fit that I run mostly with my squad, I run my ninja fit when I solo which is basically never. The cloak guarantees me kills at almost n risk because every engagement is fought on my terms. Also with the amarr scouts bonuses, it doesn't feel right running my ninja fit really because it doesn't excel at that, its clearly supposed to be run as a 'light' assault. As you can imagine, the problem is exponentially worse when you equip a gallente scout in this manner, caldari scout are defo easier to kill BUT unless the caldari scout user is a total special case, every engagement including those against other scouts will ALWAYS be on the cal scouts terms. "For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 153	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:09:00 - [52] - Quote Guy ^ Master smurf. If somome use scout it should get behind someone quite yeasy if : - Hes good, he have good damp, someone dont run with team,someone dont use scanner (gal)
RendonaSix In Aliena Amarr Legionem 76	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:10:00 - [53] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Guy ^. If somome use scout it should get behind you quite yeasy if : - Hes good, he have good damp, you dont run with team,you dont use scanner (gal) I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. "For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 153	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:13:00 - [54] - Quote RendonaSix wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Guy ^. If somome use scout it should get behind you quite yeasy if : - Hes good, he have good damp, you dont run with team,you dont use scanner (gal) I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. I fixed it. Thats was to guy before you. And to your post. You are easly detected by cal scout, that mean youre rip.
TechMechMeds SWAMPERIUM 3080	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:25:00 - [55] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: RendonaSix wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Guy ^. If somome use scout it should get behind you quite yeasy if : - Hes good, he have good damp, you dont run with team,you dont use scanner (gal) I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all. I fixed it. Thats was to guy before you. And to your post. You are easly detected by cal scout, that mean youre rip. Ah ok sorry, rendonasix is my alt. If you know what a telefrag match is, then I love you. The tritanium I sell is more relevant than dust has ever been.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 924	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:45:00 - [56] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Brick tanked cloak scrubs are the problem I believe so we need to keep in mind that proper scouts are not the problem. I believe simply setting the CPU and pg cost for cloaks higher would help. That way its either brick tanked scrub or hidden scrub but not both. I have a scout alt with 17mil sp FYI, its amarr and I run either light assault or ninja fit depending on my squad composition. I have experimented and I can produce a fit that not only has better stats than an assault but it can also cloak. I know the amarr scout is supposed to be more assault oriented but seriously now lol. Its HP is slightly less but its quicker and can cloak with proto weapons. I do not use that fit though and deleted it after completing it, I cannot bring myself to run that easy mode bull sht and of course, it is proto amarr scout. Wouldn't it make more sense to increase CPU/PG on amror mods if your are afraight of of brick tanked scouts?
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1987	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:46:00 - [57] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) The fact that you can fire while cloaked is my only real complaint with cloaks. Well, fortunately for everyone else, this only happens with glitches now. There's a very rarely-used glitch (the easy way got patched) where players can remain cloaked with their weapons drawn, but other than that, switching to your weapon IMMEDIATELY begins the decloak animation, which is visible before your weapon is in your hand and able to be used. While in the decloak animation, you're not 100% visible immediately, but you're more visible than even the brightest shimmer effect makes you. Players who are ACTUALLY INVISIBLE while shooting you are BEHIND YOU and would be invisible without a cloak. Also, there's a decloak sound (which could do with having its volume tweaked) which also plays IMMEDIATELY when you switch to your weapon. If it was playing consistently, and was loud enough to hear over gunfire, it would be a good warning sign that a cloaked player was appearing next to you. There may be lag issues involved but i doubt it - the lag between the decloak sound and the first shot is virtually nil. I play with headphones and since i'm typically hacking points solo i literally live and die by the decloak sound. The time between the sound playing and getting OHKed is measured in fractions of a second - I may be slow, but i'm not that slow. Also, the decloak sound for spawning needs to be different. More importantly, CCP is really kicking hard-of-hearing, deaf and Deaf players in the nuts. For those peeps, the game provides no warning at all. Regarding decloaking and visibility, does the game guarantee that a shot will not register before the decloaking animation renders for the cloaker's target in all lag/latency situations? My experience here says no, it doesn't. I support SP rollover.
RendonaSix In Aliena Amarr Legionem 76	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:54:00 - [58] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: Brick tanked cloak scrubs are the problem I believe so we need to keep in mind that proper scouts are not the problem. I believe simply setting the CPU and pg cost for cloaks higher would help. That way its either brick tanked scrub or hidden scrub but not both. I have a scout alt with 17mil sp FYI, its amarr and I run either light assault or ninja fit depending on my squad composition. I have experimented and I can produce a fit that not only has better stats than an assault but it can also cloak. I know the amarr scout is supposed to be more assault oriented but seriously now lol. Its HP is slightly less but its quicker and can cloak with proto weapons. I do not use that fit though and deleted it after completing it, I cannot bring myself to run that easy mode bull sht and of course, it is proto amarr scout. Wouldn't it make more sense to increase CPU/PG on amror mods if your are afraight of of brick tanked scouts? No because that punishes the majority for a minority. Last time someone pulled up the data about a month ago, 6% of the entire player base were scouts, its probably around 10% now but that will go down again as always with fotm. I don't have sources sorry as I don't know where to get that info but it was posted and linked. "For those who have seen the light, repentance you shall find, for within the heart of battle, scum you shall grind"
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 924	Posted - 2014.04.20 13:55:00 - [59] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. If they are behind you it doesn't matter if they use the cloak or not as scouts could hide from tac net before 1.8 just fine. Even the issue with brick tanked scouts is not as bad as peolpe make it. A brick tanked scout sacrifices a lot for that hp by the way much more than any shield tanker sacrifices for his HP. The movement penalty IS quite noticeable if you slap on multiple plates and believe it or not brick tanked scout are way easier to detect with a scanner. The only potential issue I see with the cloak is that the current implementation is favouring corner camping. And to all those that complain about brick tanked scouts have you ever thought about stealth tanked logis or speed tanked assaults or even heavies? If you find these fits ok why in hell are you complaining about brick tanked scouts? If you want a strict role definition thats close to classes dust may not the right game for you... Gallente's innate dampening, basic plates minor speed penalty and the scanner mechanics change really lessen your argument on that point. I also dont like this "if you are behind argument" being thrown around all the time. Pre 1.8 you had to work to get behind so that made sense. You dont have to work anymore - cloak, move and then attack. Cloak duration and ability have made many natural parts of scouting redundant. - You would never see the top scouts before until you are bleeding out, now anyone can sneak up on persons not using the Cal and Gal scouts. REALLY? You only had to work to get behind those that now can deal with the cloak. You would be surprised how often I ran straight beneath a redberry that ignored me because I was not on his tac net. Hell I had redberries counter hacking the CRU I was just hacking one left of me one right of me. So the argument you had to work to get behind someone is invalid as well. Its pretty simple there are more then enough players that kill cloaked scouts just fine and there are player that simply can't. Against the first group you hab to work pre 1.7 and you still need to work aginst them to get the shot on them. Against the second group I never had to work to get the drop on them with or without cloak. What the cloak mostly do is eliminating the random spawn close to you or some that accidently looks at you direction while you try to sneak. On the gallente dampening the gallente is supossed to counter the cal scout and scanners and I don't get your point on the changed scan mechanic...
Scheneighnay McBob Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4822	Posted - 2014.04.20 15:04:00 - [60] - Quote Cloaks actually don't make much of a difference. It's just the larger number of scouts due to cloaks. Personally, I think gallente scouts need their innate armor regen nerfed or removed. I'm from the weird side of the internet

Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 484	Posted - 2014.04.20 15:50:00 - [61] - Quote Operative 2511 Dajli wrote: I'd like to know why the same people that b*tch about snipers, which are perfectly visible if you can spot them, but think cloak is ok. Judge proved what some of us are already able to admit. The shimmer is not loading correctly like it is supposed to in order to allow the cloaker to be identified. The cloak wouldn't be OP if the shimmer loaded like it should. I've been seeing a big contrast from game to game with this with me in my Gal scout suit against other Gal scouts. this is bullshit i see cloaked people with no issue , even my friend who does not play dust had no trouble seeing the hem when he watched me play yesterday, and i was watching them at rages of over 50 meeters, so quitur lying ccp knows that the effects render correctly or we wouldnt have it
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 355	Posted - 2014.04.20 15:53:00 - [62] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Brick tanked cloak scrubs are the problem I believe so we need to keep in mind that proper scouts are not the problem. I believe simply setting the CPU and pg cost for cloaks higher would help. That way its either brick tanked scrub or hidden scrub but not both. I have a scout alt with 17mil sp FYI, its amarr and I run either light assault or ninja fit depending on my squad composition. I have experimented and I can produce a fit that not only has better stats than an assault but it can also cloak. I know the amarr scout is supposed to be more assault oriented but seriously now lol. Its HP is slightly less but its quicker and can cloak with proto weapons. I do not use that fit though and deleted it after completing it, I cannot bring myself to run that easy mode bull sht and of course, it is proto amarr scout. The problem is the plates themselves, if you increase the CPU/PG for cloaks, then minmatar scouts will have even a harder time fitting their modules, even though they have the most CPU, their minimal PG renders them useless. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 355	Posted - 2014.04.20 15:55:00 - [63] - Quote m twiggz wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. I'll start with saying I could careless if any changes are made. BUT! If the dampening of cloaks was removed then all scouts would be forced to throw dampeners in their low slots rather than stacking ridiculous amounts of armor. This would hurt the Amarr scout the most. The Gal scout would still be fine, being able to use its bonus as an advantage while needing less dampeners as other suits so they can still armor tank, but not to ridiculous levels. As for the Minmatar scout, you're just pretty screwed all the way around. All in all I really could careless. CCP has proven time and again that they aren't capable of releasing new content into Dust without there being mass amounts of issues. The real focus needs to be on the ability to fire your weapon while still going through the de-cloaking process. Any good scout can get at least one shot off with a shotgun before they are fully uncloaked, I've seen some get two off (could be due to lag), which is enough to kill all but the most bricked tanked heavies. IMO you should have to be fully uncloaked before being able to fire your weapon. No "time" delay, no weapon switch delay, but a 100% deactivation of cloak effects before you're capable of firing your weapon. But hey, who cares. I'll deal with 2-3 shotgun to the back deaths per match rather than see CCP nerf the cloak to uselessness. You know because the whole CCP overnerf to everything they touch ordeal. If CCP nerfs the cloaks, I'm speed tanking the **** out of everyone to the point you wished we had cloaks again! lololololol "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 662	Posted - 2014.04.20 15:56:00 - [64] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Use a focused scanner an never hack alone, maybe you can't just solo bully your way around a map anymore ???? My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 968	Posted - 2014.04.20 16:20:00 - [65] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) The fact that you can fire while cloaked is my only real complaint with cloaks. Well, fortunately for everyone else, this only happens with glitches now. There's a very rarely-used glitch (the easy way got patched) where players can remain cloaked with their weapons drawn, but other than that, switching to your weapon IMMEDIATELY begins the decloak animation, which is visible before your weapon is in your hand and able to be used. While in the decloak animation, you're not 100% visible immediately, but you're more visible than even the brightest shimmer effect makes you. Players who are ACTUALLY INVISIBLE while shooting you are BEHIND YOU and would be invisible without a cloak. Also, there's a decloak sound (which could do with having its volume tweaked) which also plays IMMEDIATELY when you switch to your weapon. If it was playing consistently, and was loud enough to hear over gunfire, it would be a good warning sign that a cloaked player was appearing next to you. You can fire cloaked, firing two shotgun rounds before you're visible is firing cloaked. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you! Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Rusty Shallows 1591	Posted - 2014.04.20 19:10:00 - [66] - Quote I Shayz started up a poll awhile ago. Anyone who hasn't thrown in their two ISK should do so now. Needs MOAR DATA! Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1031	Posted - 2014.04.20 19:41:00 - [67] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Non moving scouts don't shimmer. The true problem imo with cloak is no delay to use a weapon after a decloak - it should not be much 5 seconds at most, but what we got now is the shot registers before decloak animation finishes playing. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5184	Posted - 2014.04.20 19:53:00 - [68] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: There may be lag issues involved but i doubt it - the lag between the decloak sound and the first shot is virtually nil. I play with headphones and since i'm typically hacking points solo i literally live and die by the decloak sound. The time between the sound playing and getting OHKed is measured in fractions of a second - I may be slow, but i'm not that slow. If there are issues, they're almost certainly related to lag. When I'm watching cloaked players kill from cloak, and the sound actually plays audibly, it ALWAYS plays AT LEAST half a second (usually closer to a full second) before their first shot for me, and I'm not based in the most latency-friendly part of the world, so I should be seeing some of the worst the game has to offer. Quote: Also, the decloak sound for spawning needs to be different. No, it really doesn't. Decloaking is decloaking. Quote: Regarding decloaking and visibility, does the game guarantee that a shot will not register before the decloaking animation renders for the cloaker's target in all lag/latency situations? My experience here says no, it doesn't. I have yet to see a situation where the decloaking animation hadn't started before the first shot, but as with the sound issue, that doesn't prove it can't happen. Given my location, it seems unlikely. To be fair, I haven't tried studying cloakers in PC like I have in pubs, so the additional lag issues stemming from that environment may exacerbate the situation to the point where these events ARE happening concurrent with, or even after, the first shots fired from cloak. For pubs it seems pretty reliable, though.
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 280	Posted - 2014.04.20 20:21:00 - [69] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Use a focused scanner an never hack alone, maybe you can't just solo bully your way around a map anymore ???? BS, I'm calling it. Gal Scout can get below 15db, which is the LOWEST anyone can scan- Caldai Scout or the Gal Logi. The Smartest players know unbreakable TACNET stealth is KING. The most effective scouts are using the Gallente Scouts. I know this is is true, and have run into full squads of nothing but OP Gal Scouts. How I know it's them is I use multiple Duvolle Focused Scanners on my Gal Logi, and I'm getting ERRORS as 15 dB! CCP needs to buff our Scanners (fix the Passive Scans bug, only Active Scanners should be shared with squad- Scouts can go kick rocks) and nerf Scouts Dampning a bit. NO SUIT should be completely undectable. Even if it's only for a few seconds, I should be able to scan ALL SUITS with the most POWERFUL SCANNER in the game. And don't give me that, "but derps, he sacrifices a lot to gain that stealth". GTFOut of here with that nonsense, you know damn well if he had only 1 hp, that TACNET stealth is KING. It's too damn good. You can kill entire squads because no one knew you were there.
KING CHECKMATE Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 5150	Posted - 2014.04.20 20:28:00 - [70] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their *** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. Funny thing: 99% of these QQ scrubs that complain about cloaks and say that its a crutch used ACTIVE SCANNERS pre 1.8.** just a thought. Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5184	Posted - 2014.04.20 20:54:00 - [71] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: You can fire cloaked, firing two shotgun rounds before you're visible is firing cloaked. Yes, and if you actually COULD fire 2 shots before being visible at all, you'd have a point. Barring glitches, which have no bearing on a discussion about balance, you can't, and you don't. If a person is FULLY CLOAKED and firing, then they're EXPLOITING A GLITCH to switch to their weapon without decloaking. If they aren't exploiting a glitch, then they're already in a decloaking animation and at the highest visibility a player can be without the cloak being fully deactivated BEFORE they can fire. Also, even while standing still in ideal conditions, a cloaked player WILL BE VISIBLE if you're in range for them to hit with a Shotgun. Unless you're facing the wrong way. Or have bad eyesight. Or have your TV set up wrong.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 364	Posted - 2014.04.20 20:55:00 - [72] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their *** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. Funny thing: 99% of these QQ scrubs that complain about cloaks and say that its a crutch; used ACTIVE SCANNERS pre 1.8.** just a thought. Lol probably true. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 364	Posted - 2014.04.20 20:57:00 - [73] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: You can fire cloaked, firing two shotgun rounds before you're visible is firing cloaked. Yes, and if you actually COULD fire 2 shots before being visible at all, you'd have a point. Barring glitches, which have no bearing on a discussion about balance, you can't, and you don't. If a person is FULLY CLOAKED and firing, then they're EXPLOITING A GLITCH to switch to their weapon without decloaking. If they aren't exploiting a glitch, then they're already in a decloaking animation and at the highest visibility a player can be without the cloak being fully deactivated BEFORE they can fire. Also, even while standing still in ideal conditions, a cloaked player WILL BE VISIBLE if you're in range for them to hit with a Shotgun. Unless you're facing the wrong way. Or have bad eyesight. Or have your TV set up wrong. I've noticed when you do decloak and switch to your weapon you get that 2 second bug where you are COMPLETELY BLUE! That means your glowing to the point people can even see reflections of you off the walls (ok maybe not). However that means that you aren't invisible when you're firing. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 615	Posted - 2014.04.20 21:00:00 - [74] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: You mean the one where you can see the cloaked Scout? Or the shot at the end where Judge points to the wrong part of the screen to try and prove the cloaked Scout is invisible? Case 3 was actually harder to spot the cloaked player in, and that was a situation where an uncloaked player would be almost invisible too. No. When I say case 4, I mean Case 4. And when I say bug in reference to software, it means something not working as intended. After watching it, did you notice anything? Or rather a lack of mechanic kicking in that makes the cloaked merc shimmer for running at full speed? That bug? Quote: And what do you call it when someone who's never equipped a cloak before is defending the cloak? Am I relying on it as a "crutch" too? By not using it, and frequently killing cloaked and freshly-decloaked players and only rarely being ACTUALLY caught off-guard (almost every instance of which has been my own mistake). Honestly? I'd call you an idiot for defending bugs. Don't be upset, you asked. Normally when something's not working as intended, people want to fix it. I don't know. Maybe you're one of those cartoon ostrich that burry their head in the sand whenever a problem arises, insisting nothing is wrong? By the way, even real ostriches aren't that stupid. You falsely assume I'm advocating for a cloak nerf; I'm not. I simply want bugs resolved. Just like how I advocated for fixing the active vehicle armor rep bug that never got fixed in the past. If the bugs that plague the cloak effected the cloak in a way that was unfavorable to the cloak user, I would still be advocating to fix it. Quote: Is that one of the "buff Assaults" threads? I hope so, because Assaults do need a buff. Scouts are fine. No, it's one of those here's a problem with medium frames and what we should do to address it. Although if you actually bothered to click the link, you would've known. Which begs the question, why did you even have ask? Medium frame EHP is not medium
Travis Stanush GunFall Mobilization 120	Posted - 2014.04.20 21:09:00 - [75] - Quote Ok here is a question for you scout fanboys. What disadvantages do scouts have that cannot be overcome by smart fitting? Name one thing that a scout is truly weak in. That will give you the answer. No I will not show you where they touched me!!!
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 615	Posted - 2014.04.20 21:18:00 - [76] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) The fact that you can fire while cloaked is my only real complaint with cloaks. Well, fortunately for everyone else, this only happens with glitches now. There's a very rarely-used glitch (the easy way got patched) where players can remain cloaked with their weapons drawn, but other than that, switching to your weapon IMMEDIATELY begins the decloak animation, which is visible before your weapon is in your hand and able to be used. While in the decloak animation, you're not 100% visible immediately, but you're more visible than even the brightest shimmer effect makes you. Players who are ACTUALLY INVISIBLE while shooting you are BEHIND YOU and would be invisible without a cloak. Also, there's a decloak sound (which could do with having its volume tweaked) which also plays IMMEDIATELY when you switch to your weapon. If it was playing consistently, and was loud enough to hear over gunfire, it would be a good warning sign that a cloaked player was appearing next to you. Just to note, sound gets gradually softer as you turn your merc away from the sound, and there is a dead zone for sound when anything plays behind you. For example, if you turn your merc directly away from the sound of an incoming RDV, no sound plays even though you haven't moved. So that might be contributing to people not hearing scouts decloaking behind them. The sound never plays very softly in the first place DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 317	Posted - 2014.04.20 22:19:00 - [77] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: quitur lying ccp knows that the effects render correctly or we wouldnt have it GÇªwould you care to revise that statement? The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
pseudosnipre 676	Posted - 2014.04.21 00:19:00 - [78] - Quote The solution is to run with a gallente logi or cal scout in your squad and STOP RUNNING AROUND BY YOURSELF. Very rarely does CCP actually provide a counter to the FOTM, so use it til the newness subsides: problem solved. This is like complaining that you need someone in your squad that is skilled into anti-vehicle to deal with vehicles. smh Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2836	Posted - 2014.04.21 00:44:00 - [79] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: The solution is to run with a gallente logi or cal scout in your squad and STOP RUNNING AROUND BY YOURSELF. Very rarely does CCP actually provide a counter to the FOTM, so use it til the newness subsides: problem solved. This is like complaining that you need someone in your squad that is skilled into anti-vehicle to deal with vehicles. smh The difference is quite significant; AV can be skilled on the side of your main role quite easily; Cal or Gal Logi aren't easy to get into. True, maxing an AV build does get pricey, but it's comparable to skilling GalLogi + scanners to proto, and probably a bit less than skilling CalScout + enhancers + range exts. It's a slightly dishonest argument, tbh. I'm not saying it isn't valid, but I am saying it in no way presents the whole picture. ak.0 4 LYFE I am the Lorhak. I speak for the trees.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 224	Posted - 2014.04.21 00:51:00 - [80] - Quote Funniest **** ever is when anything but a scout uses a cloak LMAO i killed this commando MKO using a bolt pistol only... The guy had his cloak on and i spotted him about 40m away took my pistol and started shooting, the cloak took so much fitting requirements he probably couldnt put anything else, killed him in a clip

Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 366	Posted - 2014.04.21 00:58:00 - [81] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Funniest **** ever is when anything but a scout uses a cloak LMAO i killed this commando MKO using a bolt pistol only... The guy had his cloak on and i spotted him about 40m away took my pistol and started shooting, the cloak took so much fitting requirements he probably couldnt put anything else, killed him in a clip Yea they're called 'cloakmandos'. Usually only the proto ones are somewhat decent at it but it's a hard life for them to go invisible sometimes. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8011	Posted - 2014.04.21 01:53:00 - [82] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. The effective counter to that is to send in your very best Caldari Scout ahead of you. If the cloaky is brick tanked, he won't be able to hide effectively from a Scout Ck.0. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 363	Posted - 2014.04.21 02:29:00 - [83] - Quote I think we need to separate range, dampening and precision. Caldari and Gallente having two of the three with both having range really tip things their way. "Shine bright like a diamond"
TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2062	Posted - 2014.04.21 02:33:00 - [84] - Quote i personally don't mind the cloak, but there's no doubt that shotgun + cloak is cheap and about as easy mode as it gets. Anime > EVERYTHING
Kira Takizawa uptown456 Proficiency V. 190	Posted - 2014.04.21 07:53:00 - [85] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. The effective counter to that is to send in your very best Caldari Scout ahead of you. If the cloaky is brick tanked, he won't be able to hide effectively from a Scout Ck.0. And if he is cloaked and fully dampened? He has the right to be undetectable against all? I call bs just sayin.. Story of the Merc
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 195	Posted - 2014.04.21 08:08:00 - [86] - Quote Do cloaked team mates looked the same as cloaked enemies? Because I've looked at the little blue chevron of a cloaked team mate and that's about all I can see. Maybe they show up better on your TV than mine. I'm thinking they should just make them invisible instead of invisible if your TV is of a certain type.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 485	Posted - 2014.04.21 08:32:00 - [87] - Quote Kira Takizawa wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. The effective counter to that is to send in your very best Caldari Scout ahead of you. If the cloaky is brick tanked, he won't be able to hide effectively from a Scout Ck.0. And if he is cloaked and fully dampened? He has the right to be undetectable against all? I call bs just sayin.. yeah he does if he beat the ck0 fit.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5186	Posted - 2014.04.21 09:13:00 - [88] - Quote medomai grey wrote: No. When I say case 4, I mean Case 4. And when I say bug in reference to software, it means something not working as intended. After watching it, did you notice anything? Or rather a lack of mechanic kicking in that makes the cloaked merc shimmer for running at full speed? That bug? Ah, right. I was thinking primarily of the screenshots, of which shot 4 has a visible cloaked player, not an invisible one. The video clips aren't as clearly labeled, and there aren't 4 of them, hence the confusion. That said, bugs aren't relevant to a discussion about balance, so when dicussing balance as this thread has been, I tend to discount bugs. I agree that the bugs with cloak need addressing. I also think the problems with the lack of volume and priority on the decloak sound should be addressed because at present, it's often too hard to hear when it should be obvious. Quote: Honestly? I'd call you an idiot for defending bugs. Don't be upset, you asked. Normally when something's not working as intended, people want to fix it. I don't know. Maybe you're one of those cartoon ostrich that burry their head in the sand whenever a problem arises, insisting nothing is wrong? By the way, even real ostriches aren't that stupid. My point in this thread is to say that the cloak isn't OP and that AS A GENERAL RULE it doesn't allow players to be as "invisible" as many people claim it does. I'm arguing that bugs aren't relevant to a balance discussion, because that's what this thread has turned into, regardless of what your personal involvement in the thread was intended to be. Quote: You falsely assume I'm advocating for a cloak nerf; I'm not. I simply want bugs resolved. Just like how I advocated for fixing the active vehicle armor rep bug that never got fixed in the past. If the bugs that plague the cloak effected the cloak in a way that was unfavorable to the cloak user, I would still be advocating to fix it. I don't assume anything. I'm referencing your post[/quote] As mentioned, I also advocate bug fixes. What I don't advocate is using bugs to support your argument in a discussion about balance, which many people HAVE been doing in threads such as this one. Quote: No, it's one of those here's a problem with medium frames and what we should do to address it. Although if you actually bothered to click the link, you would've known. Which begs the question, why did you even have to ask? Yes, I did have to ask because I had a migraine and reading more than I needed to would have hurt more than asking a question which framed itself within the most logical context. And as for saying there's a problem, the problem is that medium frames - Assaults in particular - are currently underpowered and need a slight buff. That problem, unlike your arguments in this thread, is relevant to discussions about balance.
Kira Takizawa uptown456 Proficiency V. 190	Posted - 2014.04.21 09:28:00 - [89] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Kira Takizawa wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. The effective counter to that is to send in your very best Caldari Scout ahead of you. If the cloaky is brick tanked, he won't be able to hide effectively from a Scout Ck.0. And if he is cloaked and fully dampened? He has the right to be undetectable against all? I call bs just sayin.. yeah he does if he beat the ck0 fit. Broken and you know it that makes the gk.0 the be all end all suit.. Story of the Merc
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 1981	Posted - 2014.04.21 09:32:00 - [90] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: this is bullshit i see cloaked people with no issue , even my friend who does not play dust had no trouble seeing the hem when he watched me play yesterday, and i was watching them at rages of over 50 meeters If anyone want's an example of someone making the Toupee Fallacy I mentioned in the video; this is exactly it. Tell me Mr Alcar ; How many scouts that you didn't see did you see? In other words How can you tell the difference from a scout that you did not see from a spot where there was no scout? You can count the scouts you did see because you saw them. Tell me how you can count the scouts you did not see? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1515	Posted - 2014.04.21 12:49:00 - [91] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their ***** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. You can still have your minimap lit up properly if you have a proper squad set up... No more solo gung-ho bs... That is whats bothering everyone.... They can't just brick tank a suit, climb a spot and be a all L33t... Now they actually have to worry about getting flanked... - Have a Cal scout in sqaud - have a non-brick tanked scout (With proper PE and RA) equipped - Have a properly fitted Logi with scanners - Use your mics.... All these are UP apparently ^
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1515	Posted - 2014.04.21 12:52:00 - [92] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: BLOOD Ruler wrote: He's right I mean why is it so difficult,unless there right behind you but in that case think of it like a damper.Hey I just thought of something who invented the whole cloaked scout shotgun thing,Genius.Scouts are balance and disagree with this and my fist will slip down,fist out,swinging to the 56 round.Also yes use your crosshairs,why is it so difficult for babies to adapt.Anyone with me on that babies having a hard time. so tell me what you do when you are aware there are cloaked scouts on the field. When approaching an objective or room...do you stop and survey the entire area with your crosshair? You would have to do it before leaving and entering any area. Use a PE and a RA rather than using Armor plates and Shield stuff... It works decently even on an Assault suit... Have a logi with Scanner, have a cal scout in the squad... most Scouts are brick tanking with 1 or no dampeners. with a logi suit with decent PE and RA you can see them on the minimap, so can the rest of your squad... So it isn't exactly fun for the scout to stand there ... Scouts who have half a brain stay away from crowded areas....
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1515	Posted - 2014.04.21 12:55:00 - [93] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. Exactly... .I use a cal scout, and most of the time i'm doing logi work for the squad with uplinks and scans... Yes i have 3-4 PE so that my squad doesn't get jumped by other scouts... It's costly and i have to run around with 240 EHP total... Now if people complain about that without even trying to get out of their Brick tanked Safe suits.. Then they should STFU about cloaks... People just want to have everything served in a platter, rather than trying to work with what's already there to counter cloaks and scouts...
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 474	Posted - 2014.04.21 13:08:00 - [94] - Quote Well I'm not looking at the radar. In fact I learned to play without relying on it from the start. My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. And the fact that the skill needed to cloak up and shotgun someone in the back doesn't come near the skill required in situational awareness to spot a cloaked scout in the middle of a firefight. Then there's the fact that the cloak gives semi-invisibility AND a dampening effect. Usually this game requires you to choose between two different benefits of a particular weapon, gear or module. Yet the cloak gives two benefits and no real drawback. It would've made more sense for the cloak to make you invisible to the naked eye but more visible on radar.
pseudosnipre 677	Posted - 2014.04.21 14:34:00 - [95] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
pseudosnipre 677	Posted - 2014.04.21 14:43:00 - [96] - Quote Per CCP, team dynamics > gun game. Hence why it's acceptable to let the game aim for you... So either (1) run w/ anti-scout support or (2) play WAY more cautiously. . Failing to pick from the above means that you ACCEPT the risks inherent in running alone. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
P14GU3 The Southern Legion League of Infamy 584	Posted - 2014.04.21 15:11:00 - [97] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. You keep saying "oh without the damp bonus u still wouldnt see me," which is completly false. Everytime a brick tanked scout decloaks behind me he pops up on my radar. I then turn around to blast him down, and look, he has as much HP as a damn logi. 2 shotgun rounds later im down and he is still half armor. Why do you expect a free complex dampner from your equipment slot? Scouts either have too much fitting, or the cloak has too much dampening. Yeah, i run an Amarr logi with a mass driver.. what are YOU going to do about it?
Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 475	Posted - 2014.04.21 15:18:00 - [98] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? I'm fine with the effect. But i'm not fine with the fact that it doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. The way the cloak currently works doesn't call for any skill of the user, the deck is simply stacked in the cloak users favor.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 505	Posted - 2014.04.21 15:32:00 - [99] - Quote BLOOD Ruler wrote: Thurak1 wrote: Cloak is easy mode. I should be the proof of that. Before 1.8 i have played a scout for maybe 20 minutes. Now with cloaks in 1.8 i am a beast when i run my cheap BP dragonfly suit with only a shotgun and a cloak (not enough pg or cpu to fit anything else) Running this ultra squishy dropsuit that has under 250 hps i typically go 20/2 So tell me again how such a combination is balanced? I cant tell you how many times i have run right past enemy players and they do not notice me. The shimmer probably does not work properly otherwise i am sure they would have at least taken a second look. Remember people in a FPS lagg also plays a huge part of the game a shimmer effect might actually happen on a players screen far too late for them to actually ever see the shimmer. Granted i like having this suite because the only things i pay for on it are the shotgun and cloak so its ultra cheap and i get pretty nice war points running it. However i think something should be done to make it more possible to counter a cloak. Situation awareness is not it. Well in that case your enemies must have been to focus on someone more visible and they suck hard.I can see them clear as day.Except when their in the sun using the environment is smart.I am more a where of (where is that guy oh he;s right shotgun to ya face oooooooooooooohhhohhhhh). Ya you use your eyes everyone use your eyes and stop being Bit**** You see the ones you see but you have no idea how many you have not seen. Because, that's why.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 344	Posted - 2014.04.21 15:35:00 - [100] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. How about you scan the Area With your weapon like a smart person would. I run cloaks but I also kill Plenty because they're easy to spot with your reticle. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace

Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 372	Posted - 2014.04.21 15:58:00 - [101] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Well I'm not looking at the radar. In fact I learned to play without relying on it from the start. My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ***** see. And the fact that the skill needed to cloak up and shotgun someone in the back doesn't come near the skill required in situational awareness to spot a cloaked scout in the middle of a firefight. Then there's the fact that the cloak gives semi-invisibility AND a dampening effect. Usually this game requires you to choose between two different benefits of a particular weapon, gear or module. Yet the cloak gives two benefits and no real drawback. It would've made more sense for the cloak to make you invisible to the naked eye but more visible on radar. Up to a certain extent I can understand how you can't see some scouts. But what you need to realize is that there are 3 factors that should affect visibility: 1) Distance - The farther a cloaked scout is away from you, the harder it should be to see them. 2) Lighting - Maps that are extremely bright in some areas make very hard to see scouts but they also have areas where scouts light up like fireflies, in this case you just have to be weary and a little bit more cautious when you encounter this areas. 3) Stationary scouts** - Stationary scouts are the very close to being invisible, however if you observe them carefully or yourself carefully, you'll notice that your character moves from "breathing", now this makes it hard to see them, but this is one of the true intentions of how cloaks are supposed to work. You just have to train your eye to notice "irregularities" with the corners. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 372	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:05:00 - [102] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. I don't see how removing the dampening bonus will help people see scouts. You'll just be encouraging more Gal scouts, or scouts with dampeners, and that just brings you back to square one because you still won't be able to see them on the radar. Furthermore if the dampening bonus is taken away, how are we supposed to counter caldari scouts? They are the precision hunters and will be able to catch almost everyone, IMO, cloaks with damp. bonus are part of the counter against Cal scouts. I really don't see how cloaks are ridiculous. You keep saying "oh without the damp bonus u still wouldnt see me," which is completly false. Everytime a brick tanked scout decloaks behind me he pops up on my radar. I then turn around to blast him down, and look, he has as much HP as a damn logi. 2 shotgun rounds later im down and he is still half armor. Why do you expect a free complex dampner from your equipment slot? Scouts either have too much fitting, or the cloak has too much dampening. Taking away dampening bonus will force people to stray away people from brick tanking but it will be just as hard to "see" them because they'll just put more dampeners on. And the only scout you're talking about is the Gal scout. All the other scouts dont' benefit as much from this. The gal scout has the most low slots (amarr scout too but it doesn't have the same bonuses) AND has the dampening bonus, which makes it the optimal choice to brick tank. It is not the cloak itself that is the problem, rather the Gal scout which makes it too good with all these pieces combined, because it is the GAL SCOUT that can utilize all of these pieces. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
pseudosnipre 678	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:08:00 - [103] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? ... It doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. Try one of the two direct counters? Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 372	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:11:00 - [104] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? ... It doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. Try one of the two direct counters? The drawback is CPU/PG usage and the counter is the Cal scout... "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
pseudosnipre 678	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:24:00 - [105] - Quote Gal logi, cal scout, or buddy system with MDs and nanite injectors. Give those ideas a try. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 372	Posted - 2014.04.21 16:56:00 - [106] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The main problem I see arising is the power of the Gal scout. It can brick tank as much as an assault, move slightly faster, cloak, and avoid being scanned oh and that 3 armor rep/s. Like you said Regnyum, it's not the individual parts that are OP, rather the combination the Gal can have with these pieces that make it too good. Fix the Gal scout? "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1519	Posted - 2014.04.21 17:01:00 - [107] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? I'm fine with the effect. But i'm not fine with the fact that it doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. The way the cloak currently works doesn't call for any skill of the user, the deck is simply stacked in the cloak users favor. Nothing there to counter it ?! Logi Suit - 2 PE + 1 RA Assault - 1 PE + 1 RA Cal Scout = lol Cloaked scouts
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 374	Posted - 2014.04.21 17:04:00 - [108] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? I'm fine with the effect. But i'm not fine with the fact that it doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. The way the cloak currently works doesn't call for any skill of the user, the deck is simply stacked in the cloak users favor. Nothing there to counter it ?! Logi Suit - 2 PE + 1 RA Assault - 1 PE + 1 RA Cal Scout = lol Cloaked scouts Also the CPU/PG usage is no joke, I could make my 11.12 m/s MInja have 300 shields but I have to drop it siginifcaly in order to incorporate a cloak. However I think because the Gal scout has the most PG, it can utilize the most mods and makes it the easiest/best scout to use in the game. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
pseudosnipre 679	Posted - 2014.04.21 18:33:00 - [109] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The main problem I see arising is the power of the Gal scout. It can brick tank as much as an assault, move slightly faster, cloak, and avoid being scanned oh and that 3 armor rep/s. Like you said Regnyum, it's not the individual parts that are OP, rather the combination the Gal can have with these pieces that make it too good. Fix the Gal scout? Fix the assault class? Sigh All scout suits received a 1.8 profile reduction, not just gal scouts. People just like to complain about tacnet no longer spoonfeeding them Intel instead of adapting. I've ran a gal scout since they were released and I've seen more cal and Minnie scouts on the field over gal scouts in 1.8 because pubstars don't encounter proto scanners or dedicated precision scouts on the field so loldampening. I hope CCP trolls you all and brings back the chromosome shotgun... THEN you'll have a valid reason to belly ache. And stop complaining about all these scrubs running cloaked sg FOTM. SG range is trash and Real assassin's run NKs. Wait til assaults get their buff before you premature evaluate all over yourself. Also, gal scouts must choose between armor, dampening and speed. So raise up off these gal scout nuts. Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you. BitterVet the turkey says GOML GOML GOML
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1524	Posted - 2014.04.21 19:01:00 - [110] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? I'm fine with the effect. But i'm not fine with the fact that it doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. The way the cloak currently works doesn't call for any skill of the user, the deck is simply stacked in the cloak users favor. Nothing there to counter it ?! Logi Suit - 2 PE + 1 RA Assault - 1 PE + 1 RA Cal Scout = lol Cloaked scouts Also the CPU/PG usage is no joke, I could make my 11.12 m/s MInja have 300 shields but I have to drop it siginifcaly in order to incorporate a cloak. However I think because the Gal scout has the most PG, it can utilize the most mods and makes it the easiest/best scout to use in the game. I think my dragonfly and my Valor Scout G-1 does better with Assault gear than my Amar Assault ak0

Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 486	Posted - 2014.04.21 20:07:00 - [111] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: this is bullshit i see cloaked people with no issue , even my friend who does not play dust had no trouble seeing the hem when he watched me play yesterday, and i was watching them at rages of over 50 meeters If anyone want's an example of someone making the Toupee Fallacy I mentioned in the video; this is exactly it. Tell me Mr Alcar ; How many scouts that you didn't see did you see? In other words How can you tell the difference from a scout that you did not see from a spot where there was no scout? You can count the scouts you did see because you saw them. Tell me how you can count the scouts you did not see? wtf are you yammering about, if i seen them its becuse i seen them, if i didnt see them they were not there duh , i have never seen an invisible scout not render as you claim to have recorded, if i see a cloaker i shoot at them and i know they are there because my crosshairs turn red
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 379	Posted - 2014.04.21 20:38:00 - [112] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Bormir1r wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The main problem I see arising is the power of the Gal scout. It can brick tank as much as an assault, move slightly faster, cloak, and avoid being scanned oh and that 3 armor rep/s. Like you said Regnyum, it's not the individual parts that are OP, rather the combination the Gal can have with these pieces that make it too good. Fix the Gal scout? Fix the assault class? Sigh All scout suits received a 1.8 profile reduction, not just gal scouts. People just like to complain about tacnet no longer spoonfeeding them Intel instead of adapting. I've ran a gal scout since they were released and I've seen more cal and Minnie scouts on the field over gal scouts in 1.8 because pubstars don't encounter proto scanners or dedicated precision scouts on the field so loldampening. I hope CCP trolls you all and brings back the chromosome shotgun... THEN you'll have a valid reason to belly ache. And stop complaining about all these scrubs running cloaked sg FOTM. SG range is trash and Real assassin's run NKs. Wait til assaults get their buff before you premature evaluate all over yourself. Also, gal scouts must choose between armor, dampening and speed. So raise up off these gal scout nuts. I rarely see Minmatar scouts... they are the dodo birds of this generation....If anything I see Gal and Cal scouts everywhere. But yea fixing the assault class would be another fix. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5188	Posted - 2014.04.21 20:44:00 - [113] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: My issue with cloaks is that a cloaked scout is hard to ******* see. Working as intended? I'm fine with the effect. But i'm not fine with the fact that it doesn't have any drawbacks at all and nothing being able to counter it. The way the cloak currently works doesn't call for any skill of the user, the deck is simply stacked in the cloak users favor. Not being able to have your weapon drawn while invisible isn't a drawback? Being partially visible at all times and more visible when moving isn't a drawback? Having a sound play when you switch off your invisibility BEFORE you can fire your weapon or use whatever other equipment you have isn't a drawback? The high PG and CPU cost isn't a drawback? They're all there, and they're at least as serious drawbacks as what you get for equipping a Scanner, Nanohive, Repair Tool, etc. if not moreso in some aspects. The deck is stacked in the favour of GLITCHES with the cloak, and in favour of AWARENESS when it's working properly. As long as cloaking is working properly (which I'm pretty sure is most of the time), there shouldn't be a problem.
Vinsarrow New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day 242	Posted - 2014.04.21 20:46:00 - [114] - Quote I have only read the 1st post of this & a little after but here is my thoughts. Recall the days you could scan everywhere? If you were a Scout, and you see "You have been scanned" was really annoying. Remember Scouts being made of paper? Recall if you were a Scout you were just as easily spotable as a Heavy? Well now the scout is actually playable. What people are really annoyed about is the cloak & shotgun, being a smart scout includes being a sort of Assassin on the battle-feild & using good tactics such as watching points, ninja hacking, or tracking a target to kill is fine & is grand tactics. The problem is it's no longer Cloak & Dagger - It's Cloak & Shotgun. The majority (not ALL) of scouts currently are Scouts with NO originality - Scouts who are only Scouts for the shotgun purposes. They pump into shotgun, probably proto, get a low level cloak & a decent suit, & the best modules possible. They run around 1 shotting everyone with them having no chance to react. Proto Heavy's with complex sheilds & armor are took down in seconds to these shotguns. That shouldn't be happening & that's the REAL issue. The cloak complaints is because it's a CLOAK it just annoys people when they go invisible, running around killing people like it's nothing. The only nerfs needed in my opinion are possibly Combat Rifle Range & shotgun DMG. To CCP - Do not be afraid to stand by something that isn't broken like how the AR was originally, or how the scout suits are now. Only fix what needs fix & if it's not broke don't fix it. You have people like CPM's & CCP LogiBro - they'll tell you the facts they see on the feilds.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 386	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:56:00 - [115] - Quote Vinsarrow wrote: I have only read the 1st post of this & a little after but here is my thoughts. Recall the days you could scan everywhere? If you were a Scout, and you see "You have been scanned" was really annoying. Remember Scouts being made of paper? Recall if you were a Scout you were just as easily spotable as a Heavy? Well now the scout is actually playable. What people are really annoyed about is the cloak & shotgun, being a smart scout includes being a sort of Assassin on the battle-feild & using good tactics such as watching points, ninja hacking, or tracking a target to kill is fine & is grand tactics. The problem is it's no longer Cloak & Dagger - It's Cloak & Shotgun. The majority (not ALL) of scouts currently are Scouts with NO originality - Scouts who are only Scouts for the shotgun purposes. They pump into shotgun, probably proto, get a low level cloak & a decent suit, & the best modules possible. They run around 1 shotting everyone with them having no chance to react. Proto Heavy's with complex sheilds & armor are took down in seconds to these shotguns. That shouldn't be happening & that's the REAL issue. The cloak complaints is because it's a CLOAK it just annoys people when they go invisible, running around killing people like it's nothing. The only nerfs needed in my opinion are possibly Combat Rifle Range & shotgun DMG. To CCP - Do not be afraid to stand by something that isn't broken like how the AR was originally, or how the scout suits are now. Only fix what needs fix & if it's not broke don't fix it. You have people like CPM's & CCP LogiBro - they'll tell you the facts they see on the feilds. The truth is if scouts were to all switch to NK instead of Shotguns, there would be just as many complaints. People would still say they couldn't "see" the scouts, and NK do much more damage than Shotguns, although they are "slightly" harder to use. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Onesimus Tarsus 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1934	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:16:00 - [116] - Quote TranquilBiscuit ofVaLoR wrote: i personally don't mind the cloak, but there's no doubt that shotgun + cloak is cheap and about as easy mode as it gets. Or cloaked proto scout and ACR. That might even be more egregiously baby-punching cheap, wouldn't you say? 1.9 forum warrior. SMG wielder. Mama's boy. I'm right, you're wrong. Adjust.
Onesimus Tarsus 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 1934	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:18:00 - [117] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Bormir1r wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The main problem I see arising is the power of the Gal scout. It can brick tank as much as an assault, move slightly faster, cloak, and avoid being scanned oh and that 3 armor rep/s. Like you said Regnyum, it's not the individual parts that are OP, rather the combination the Gal can have with these pieces that make it too good. Fix the Gal scout? Fix the assault class? Sigh All scout suits received a 1.8 profile reduction, not just gal scouts. People just like to complain about tacnet no longer spoonfeeding them Intel instead of adapting. I've ran a gal scout since they were released and I've seen more cal and Minnie scouts on the field over gal scouts in 1.8 because pubstars don't encounter proto scanners or dedicated precision scouts on the field so loldampening. I hope CCP trolls you all and brings back the chromosome shotgun... THEN you'll have a valid reason to belly ache. And stop complaining about all these scrubs running cloaked sg FOTM. SG range is trash and Real assassin's run NKs. Wait til assaults get their buff before you premature evaluate all over yourself. Also, gal scouts must choose between armor, dampening and speed. So raise up off these gal scout nuts. I rarely see Minmatar scouts... they are the dodo birds of this generation....If anything I see Gal and Cal scouts everywhere. But yea fixing the assault class would be another fix. I like that you didn't even mention Amarr scouts. 1.9 forum warrior. SMG wielder. Mama's boy. I'm right, you're wrong. Adjust.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 386	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:29:00 - [118] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Bormir1r wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Bormir1r wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: I think more or less the issue, is not the cloak itself but the combination of different weapons and equipment when used with it. My original belief was that the cloak was going to be used more for a s supporting role, then the slayer. Currently that is far from the case. The cloak is here to stay, but to insist it does not need tweaking is questionable The main problem I see arising is the power of the Gal scout. It can brick tank as much as an assault, move slightly faster, cloak, and avoid being scanned oh and that 3 armor rep/s. Like you said Regnyum, it's not the individual parts that are OP, rather the combination the Gal can have with these pieces that make it too good. Fix the Gal scout? Fix the assault class? Sigh All scout suits received a 1.8 profile reduction, not just gal scouts. People just like to complain about tacnet no longer spoonfeeding them Intel instead of adapting. I've ran a gal scout since they were released and I've seen more cal and Minnie scouts on the field over gal scouts in 1.8 because pubstars don't encounter proto scanners or dedicated precision scouts on the field so loldampening. I hope CCP trolls you all and brings back the chromosome shotgun... THEN you'll have a valid reason to belly ache. And stop complaining about all these scrubs running cloaked sg FOTM. SG range is trash and Real assassin's run NKs. Wait til assaults get their buff before you premature evaluate all over yourself. Also, gal scouts must choose between armor, dampening and speed. So raise up off these gal scout nuts. I rarely see Minmatar scouts... they are the dodo birds of this generation....If anything I see Gal and Cal scouts everywhere. But yea fixing the assault class would be another fix. I like that you didn't even mention Amarr scouts. Yea.....you guys too.... "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. You do it with 63.00 Stamina Regen.
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 170	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:38:00 - [119] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Actually that is exactly what I do. Before hacking an objective where a cloaked Scout may be hiding, I scan the area around the objective. Then I watch my teammates back while he hacks. I thought everyone did this as it's a pretty obvious necessity, even without cloaks.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 99	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:42:00 - [120] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I like that you didn't even mention Amarr scouts. CCP forgot them, why shouldn't the rest of us? seriously just get rid of the cloak altogether, 1.7 was balanced dampener wise and scouts just needed a little push to achieve true parity stop conceding that cloaks are 'here to stay'. they're ****** and kinda boring to use and if CCP didn't botch map design from square one there would be no niche for the cloak at all. If you have to have it altogether than ditch the dampening bonus and give scouts a real skill rather than a CPU/PG reduction on cloaks and then we'll see a lot less slayer cloaks and a lot more stealth-oriented scouts.

Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 171	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:43:00 - [121] - Quote Vinsarrow wrote: I have only read the 1st post of this & a little after but here is my thoughts. Recall the days you could scan everywhere? If you were a Scout, and you see "You have been scanned" was really annoying. Remember Scouts being made of paper? Recall if you were a Scout you were just as easily spotable as a Heavy? Well now the scout is actually playable. What people are really annoyed about is the cloak & shotgun, being a smart scout includes being a sort of Assassin on the battle-feild & using good tactics such as watching points, ninja hacking, or tracking a target to kill is fine & is grand tactics. The problem is it's no longer Cloak & Dagger - It's Cloak & Shotgun. The majority (not ALL) of scouts currently are Scouts with NO originality - Scouts who are only Scouts for the shotgun purposes. They pump into shotgun, probably proto, get a low level cloak & a decent suit, & the best modules possible. They run around 1 shotting everyone with them having no chance to react. Proto Heavy's with complex sheilds & armor are took down in seconds to these shotguns. That shouldn't be happening & that's the REAL issue. The cloak complaints is because it's a CLOAK it just annoys people when they go invisible, running around killing people like it's nothing. The only nerfs needed in my opinion are possibly Combat Rifle Range & shotgun DMG. To CCP - Do not be afraid to stand by something that isn't broken like how the AR was originally, or how the scout suits are now. Only fix what needs fix & if it's not broke don't fix it. You have people like CPM's & CCP LogiBro - they'll tell you the facts they see on the feilds. I have to respectfully disagree. Proto Heavies are not being two shot by proto shotties. This coming from a SG Scout since closed beta and have all my SG skills at 4 and 5. I have seen several proto heavies at 1500+ EHP. I have seen several heavies take a full RE charge like a champ and keep walking. I have to literally push a SG into a heavies back and hope to pull off 3-5 shots point blank while trying to dodge the chaingun of death that will eviscerate me if it touches me. I also have to hope he doesn't, well....move during all of this.
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 171	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:46:00 - [122] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: I like that you didn't even mention Amarr scouts. CCP forget them, why shouldn't the rest of us? seriously just get rid of the cloak altogether, 1.7 was balanced dampener wise and scouts just needed a little push to achieve true parity stop conceding that cloaks are 'here to stay'. they're ****** and kinda boring to use and if CCP didn't botch map design from square one there would be no niche for the cloak at all. If you have to have it altogether than ditch the dampening bonus and give scouts a real skill rather than a CPU/PG reduction on cloaks and then we'll see a lot less slayer cloaks and a lot more stealth-oriented scouts. Not sure your a Scout. A little push would not have achieved parity, the Scout was in a rough spot for about 8 months for this very reason. Also, I find cloaks are quite fun indeed, both using and killing those who use.
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 171	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:53:00 - [123] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Brick tanked cloak scrubs are the problem I believe so we need to keep in mind that proper scouts are not the problem. I believe simply setting the CPU and pg cost for cloaks higher would help. That way its either brick tanked scrub or hidden scrub but not both. I have a scout alt with 17mil sp FYI, its amarr and I run either light assault or ninja fit depending on my squad composition. I have experimented and I can produce a fit that not only has better stats than an assault but it can also cloak. I know the amarr scout is supposed to be more assault oriented but seriously now lol. Its HP is slightly less but its quicker and can cloak with proto weapons. I do not use that fit though and deleted it after completing it, I cannot bring myself to run that easy mode bull sht and of course, it is proto amarr scout. Why increase the cloak fitting costs and not the plating? Or even better reduce the cost of kincats as they are ridiculously hard to equip and stack for something that doesn't give your normal movement any boost. I would prefer a bigger kincat bonus or lower fitting req and a kincat variation that affects normal movement speed rather than sprint.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1464	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:58:00 - [124] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You arrive at an objective and there is a cloaked scout-shotty waiting in the corner. How do you propose to see him with your eyes? Cloakheads aren't always running in front of you where you can see them shimmer. Most of the time, they are cloaked waiting or running up behind you. The only counter would be that EVERYWHERE you go, you must CAREFULLY survey the area for your crosshairs to turn red. Hopefully, your back doesn't turn from them or they don't just pop you with the shotgun before they decloak if you happen to walk right in front of them. I understand cloaks are here to stay....but remove the dampening bonus, remove the decloaking animation when changing your weapon, and you should decloak or be at maximum shimmer when you take damage. This week, I will make sure that I post some video and commentary of when cloak scouts are ridiculous. Don't attack objects by yourself It's as simple as that Scouts are best at picking off lone targets
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 171	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:58:00 - [125] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Cloak is easy mode. I should be the proof of that. Before 1.8 i have played a scout for maybe 20 minutes. Now with cloaks in 1.8 i am a beast when i run my cheap BP dragonfly suit with only a shotgun and a cloak (not enough pg or cpu to fit anything else) Running this ultra squishy dropsuit that has under 250 hps i typically go 20/2 So tell me again how such a combination is balanced? I cant tell you how many times i have run right past enemy players and they do not notice me. The shimmer probably does not work properly otherwise i am sure they would have at least taken a second look. Remember people in a FPS lagg also plays a huge part of the game a shimmer effect might actually happen on a players screen far too late for them to actually ever see the shimmer. Granted i like having this suite because the only things i pay for on it are the shotgun and cloak so its ultra cheap and i get pretty nice war points running it. However i think something should be done to make it more possible to counter a cloak. Situation awareness is not it. I promise you are exaggerating. You played a scout for 20 min, you constantly go 20/2 with a bpo scout suit and only SG/Cloak. On both counts I call BS. The style that a scout promotes basically dictates you camp, meaning your scores will not consistently be 20+ kills, or you speed into everything, meaning your deaths will not consistently be 2-. You may get the occasional good game where you land those scores but acting like it's common, not happening even in pubs. If you are now thinking, "Yes that sounds right", then allow me to remind you that a "good" player should do this and therefore nothing is wrong. Are you sure you didn't just start a new character and troll the academy?
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1548	Posted - 2014.04.23 17:01:00 - [126] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Louis Domi wrote: Funniest **** ever is when anything but a scout uses a cloak LMAO i killed this commando MKO using a bolt pistol only... The guy had his cloak on and i spotted him about 40m away took my pistol and started shooting, the cloak took so much fitting requirements he probably couldnt put anything else, killed him in a clip Yea they're called 'cloakmandos'. Usually only the proto ones are somewhat decent at it but it's a hard life for them to go invisible sometimes. I made a Smart Commando rage quit lol... Cause he thought a cloak would make him better.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 103	Posted - 2014.04.24 21:41:00 - [127] - Quote Revelations 514 wrote: Not sure your a Scout. A little push would not have achieved parity, the Scout was in a rough spot for about 8 months for this very reason. Also, I find cloaks are quite fun indeed, both using and killing those who use. Revelations 514 wrote: Why increase the cloak fitting costs and not the plating? Or even better reduce the cost of kincats as they are ridiculously hard to equip and stack for something that doesn't give your normal movement any boost. I would prefer a bigger kincat bonus or lower fitting req and a kincat variation that affects normal movement speed rather than sprint. Revelations 514 wrote: I promise you are exaggerating. You played a scout for 20 min, you constantly go 20/2 with a bpo scout suit and only SG/Cloak. On both counts I call BS. The style that a scout promotes basically dictates you camp, meaning your scores will not consistently be 20+ kills, or you speed into everything, meaning your deaths will not consistently be 2-. You may get the occasional good game where you land those scores but acting like it's common, not happening even in pubs. If you are now thinking, "Yes that sounds right", then allow me to remind you that a "good" player should do this and therefore nothing is wrong. Are you sure you didn't just start a new character and troll the academy? Honestly, after reading this, it sounds like the reason you're pushing hard to keep the scout OP is because you're terrible at it. Sorry dude. I can run proto nearly everything even while doubling up on kincats and the only thing it requires is getting the fitting skills, kincats are fine. Scouts need a better base speed, for sure, but if 1.8 gave us that and the extra equipment slot and changed nothing at all about dampening and left cloaks out entirely, we'd be balanced with everything just fine.
Black SlaverX Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2014.04.24 21:56:00 - [128] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their ***** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. Cloaky-crutcher spotted. Watch your back because I might be there.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 395	Posted - 2014.04.25 12:09:00 - [129] - Quote Black SlaverX wrote: Bormir1r wrote: This is ridiculous. People are whining way too much about the cloak. They say it's a "crutch" for "****-players" pre-1.8, which is absolute BS. And these are the people who just say the cloak is "trash" and provide NO proper and logical explanation as to why it's even "garbage" in the first place. They don't even say why they couldn't see them. Players like Judge Rhadamanthus have video proof as to what extent the cloak is visible, and he even states that the cloak isn't even broken, rather it's just harder to see scouts in certain lighting areas, which is completely fine because the scout is using the environment to hide itself. Another problem is that people are STILL used to just looking at their radars and expecting to see EVERYTHING, and now when cloaks help hide scouts from the radars, they complain they can't see scouts when they get shotgunned, which is true because they aren't even looking at what's even right in front of them on their screen since they're too busy looking at their *** radar! Another reason why people are against cloaks is because they're really angered at the "brick-tanked" scouts, who shove armor plates up their ass to act like Assaults. Why are you getting pissed off by the cloaks, channel your fury into armor plates, which provide way too much eHP for such a small movement penatly. Seriously if you're looking at your radar instead of the main screen right in front of you, don't be surprised when a "blue-outlined" scout comes up running to you and pops with you a shotgun. Cloaky-crutcher spotted. I believe Judge's words were "invisible" and "invisible at full sprint on certain backgrounds" Yea but like i said in the OP, the lighting of the environment allowed that level of "invsibility" and Judge was about 30-40m away. Had Judge been below 10m he could probably see the outline of the scout. If you noticed in the video, almost all of the instances where scouts were very "invisible" were when he was about 30-50m away, and that's quite far for the human eye to catch cloaked scouts. Oh, and if you believe I'm a cloaky crutch, then take away cloaks and I'll speed tank the ** out of you. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
Asha Starwind 829	Posted - 2014.04.25 13:43:00 - [130] - Quote My thoughts on some of the ideas in this thread - Removing the dampening bonus I wouldn't mind this change but I feel like it wouldn't do anything towards addressing the real issues. As it would only knock brick tanking scouts down a just peg but would royally screw all others. I would prefer a small scan profile penalty of 3/4/5 scan db added per bas/enh/comp armor plate instead. - Fluxes disable cloaks No, just screws over shield tanked scouts. Instead cloak depletes at a faster rate when under fire (2-3x normal rate when being fired upon and hit) I'd also like to add that cloak duration is too long and they need to be shortened. 30 seconds, that's the duration of the basic cloak that is more than enough time to get anywhere, position oneself perform a hack, whatever it may be. I'd suggest 30 seconds across all tiers 20/15/10 second recharge duration Users would have think more tactically when deploying their cloak (e.g.before going into hot areas), instead of leaving it always on and/or camping objectives and spawns. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms

Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 395	Posted - 2014.04.25 16:10:00 - [131] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: My thoughts on some of the ideas in this thread - Removing the dampening bonus I wouldn't mind this change but I feel like it wouldn't do anything towards addressing the real issues. As it would only knock brick tanking scouts down a just peg but would royally screw all others. I would prefer a small scan profile penalty of 3/4/5 scan db added per bas/enh/comp armor plate instead. - Fluxes disable cloaks No, just screws over shield tanked scouts. Instead cloak depletes at a faster rate when under fire (2-3x normal rate when being fired upon and hit) I'd also like to add that cloak duration is too long and they need to be shortened. 30 seconds, that's the duration of the basic cloak that is more than enough time to get anywhere, position oneself perform a hack, whatever it may be. I'd suggest 30 seconds across all tiers 20/15/10 second recharge duration Users would have think more tactically when deploying their cloak (e.g.before going into hot areas), instead of leaving it always on and/or camping objectives and spawns. I almost completely agree, but you're reductions to the time of cloaking is kind of pointless because the recharging time at the durations you provide are just too small to even make a difference. You would literally wait 5 seconds and you're back to cloaking....that doesn't really do much. I don't really a need to change cloak durations, I mean they should fix the bug, just for the sake of it being a bug, but the cloak is mostly fine. "One does not simply" run 11.12 m/s. Oh wait, mk.0 Scouts do it... Oops.
iliel Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 33	Posted - 2014.04.25 18:12:00 - [132] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: People that so fiercely defend cloaks saying that they are balanced are funny as hell. O ya use your eyes. What you think people playing this game suddenly become selectively blind? Come on get your mind out of neutral and actually engage your brain. If someone actually sees a shimmer they sure as heck are going to pop a shot off at it. It is re-producible that the cloak doesn't even drop fully by the time a scout can fire. So what makes you think there isnt also some sort of issue where the shimmer sometimes might not even be on the other players screen? Clearly being able to shoot before de-cloaked is not working as intended. But you cloak fanboys are just going to defend it tooth and nail because you can not possibly consider any thing else and you want to vainly believe that it is actually your superior tactics ( LOL! ) that enable you to get so many kills with so few losses. I am willing to admit using cloak and shotgun is a easy mode crutch when i use it. If being a cloaked scout with scotgun is easy mode then why is it that OH and RONIN aren't owning this game right now? I think i'd like to see you in a match to find out the real KD you'll be getting in matches with that suit... As far as I can tell the people who complain about scouts (except Thurak if we are to believe him) are heavy users who are too lazy to have to turn and shoot and who would much rather just hold the fire button all match and go 20 and 0. The game is already nearing this point. I guess it'll help out the NPE if, in the tutuorial, it directs you to be a heavy. However, is it worth it to buff NPE at the cost of vet gameplay? I mean: if all I have to do to win is get a Gal or Amarr heavy and take an LAV or DS to a point and sit there, do you think I'll or any other legit player will actually play this game other than for PC?


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