You cant answer that question alone

The problem with PC runs alot deeper than just passive ISK

It needs a complete overhaul and starting from scratch

To obtain the blue donut should be hard as hell but if no one is intrested in PC like it is now then it will be easier

No one gives a **** about PC anymore, it doesnt really offer anything or mean anything

I don't think anyone would fight with PC 1.0 mechanics if passive ISK was taken away. Why would someone spend 100 or so million taking a district if there was no return on investment?

Now if clone packs were 5 or 10 million ISK AND passive ISK was taken away, I'd say hell yeah people would fight. But this would be glorified corp battles solely on the basis of wanting to play in a team deploy setting. It would take away any and all conquest strategy out of PC (of which there was little anyway).

There are other threads that discuss the deeper problems about PC1.0 and how they might be fixed. This thread is the product of some of those and asks a simple question with a simple premise - "If PC had no passive isk, would you still play it?"

You can and should answer that question alone because it is one serious possible change that could actually happen - any other thoughts of mechanics or limits or really anything other than simple numerical changes are not "on the table" for PC1.0. So let's discuss the question of the OP, not off-topic hypotheticals.

Drop all passive isk gained by selling clones by 80%... Increase payout by 75% for win... Add a 20% isk payout for when you lose the game... Questions??

I don't think anyone would fight with PC 1.0 mechanics if passive ISK was taken away. Why would someone spend 100 or so million taking a district if there was no return on investment?

Now if clone packs were 5 or 10 million ISK AND passive ISK was taken away, I'd say hell yeah people would fight. But this would be glorified corp battles solely on the basis of wanting to play in a team deploy setting. It would take away any and all conquest strategy out of PC (of which there was little anyway).

The full question is this

'If PC had no passive ISK, would you still play it even tho it would be exactly the same as it is now and no gameplay/mechanic changes would take place?

I can tell you what most players answers would be to the full question, it would be no, why would it be no? because nothing would change, the blue donut still exists, small corps dont give a crap, big corps dont care and farm pubs, donut wont care because its not hard to sell clones manually and they still keep the donut, PC would still suffer framerate/lag problems etc


You cannot answer OP question because it is a **** question, its redundant, the problems of PC far outweigh this and even if it changes would it infact change anything? no it wouldnt

Part of me thinks the question is actually, "If we weren't making billions and billions of ISK each day, would you guys still think I'm an ahole?". I don't think that is the entirety of it, but I really believe from the many posts from those within the donut that they think they've tactically joined this super alliance in preparation for all the fighting that's just around the corner.

they're afraid cause they're aware of who they can't beat.

Smaller corps weren't participating before this donut anyway. Only ones that tried were on PFC and they asked for protection. Those PFC corps were even asking for protection from smaller corps instead of only from the bigger dogs. So, blame those smaller corps for locking other small corp's out and removing their ability to compete.

Even if there was no passive you still have to put the per clone price in a pack over the cost of biomass and I doubt anyone would enjoy that being reduced from 100k to 25 or 60k.

The full question is this

'If PC had no passive ISK, would you still play it even tho it would be exactly the same as it is now and no gameplay/mechanic changes would take place?

I can tell you what most players answers would be to the full question, it would be no, why would it be no? because nothing would change, the blue donut still exists, small corps dont give a crap, big corps dont care and farm pubs, donut wont care because its not hard to sell clones manually and they still keep the donut, PC would still suffer framerate/lag problems etc


You cannot answer OP question because it is a **** question, its redundant, the problems of PC far outweigh this and even if it changes would it infact change anything? no it wouldnt

It's not that I disagree with you. But would you be willing to pay $5000 to box Manny Pac in your first boxing match? If you factor in the donut, people aren't going to set their corp wallet's on fire. You have to take into account that 90% of the elite players in Dust reside in your alliance and hold 239 out of 245 districts.

If you want to see participation it's going to have to come cheap for those outside the donut.

I agree. 239 districts making (assuming full clones 24/7) 10 mil isk a day = 2.39 billion isk a day. How many clone packs can they buy even if they lost every district the next day? 2,390,000/36,000,000 = 66 clone packs (some change). So naturally DNS can then attack 66 times in rapid succession from just 1 day of passive isk farming. For myself however it would take a week or more of pure ambush playing to get enough isk for just 1 clone pack. then you have to factor in that I would need at least 3-5 clone packs to actually capture the district (about 400 clones max +80 clones a day + some shifting of clones from other districts, lag issues and losses in continued battles) and of course I would need to stockpile specialized fitted suits for the matches themselves to give a higher chance of success in the battles...

I would need 180 mil for the clone packs alone + maybe 40 mil for enough proto suits for 5 continuous battles. 220 mil to take a single district would take me individually maybe 1-2 months of continued & constant ambush spamming to acquire. True, the cost of the clone packs should mostly be covered by the corp but with 100 players who sometimes regularly get on a PC match series to take a district will take months. We're here to have fun after all.

Are they better players? Maybe not, but they're deep pockets mean that their less than perfect skill can be supplemented with isk fat suits and repetitive clone packs.

To answer OPs question, yes we would fight for and hold land in PC without passive ISK, IF the costs to do so were reasonable.

PC is currently the only game mode that allows team deploy. Many of our members would embrace the chance to fight full team vs team battles like we used to in the old Corp contract days. Would we get knocked around a bit? Of course, but if the price was right, we would welcome the opportunity to get better.

I've said it in a few places that CCP needed to raise/lower the price of clone packs relative to the participation in PC while they strengthen the Eve/Dust connection and tie everything into a larger New Eden economy.

If PC is dead, clone packs are cheap. If PC is active, clone packs are expensive (or if people are locking).

And dude, don't get it twisted they are amazing players and they have 100x the experience in PC in comparison to those outside the donut.

It would change the trajectory of Dust in a big way if PC as we know it was changed to a glorified corp battle system. Dropping the cost of clone packs to next to nothing and removing passive ISK would make this happen. Just use the payout system for pubs for the winners only with a higher multiplier and as someone said above give the loser 50% of the payout that the winner gets.

This brings in all of Dust and gives them some time to prepare in a team deploy environment for PC 2.0.

It would change the trajectory of Dust in a big way if PC as we know it was changed to a glorified corp battle system. Dropping the cost of clone packs to next to nothing and removing passive ISK would make this happen. Just use the payout system for pubs for the winners only with a higher multiplier and as someone said above give the loser 50% of the payout that the winner gets.

This brings in all of Dust and gives them some time to prepare in a team deploy environment for PC 2.0.

Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is:

Would you play PC if there were no passive isk?

This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0".

Well it's pretty easy to see what kains ulterior motive is with the question, based on his responses throughout the thread.

He knows that CCP is looking into removing the passive isk in the meantime to cut back on the Farmville game, and kain does not want that at all. So he Created this thread looking to garner support, yet received barely any.

So because this was a **** thread asking a question that does nothing to change PC beyond culling gameplay that was never intended, people started going to the topics that actually had to do with makin PC a playable game mode instead of kains personal agenda.

Btw, since you might be too busy wiggling your tongue around in kains ******* to notice, repeatedly creating posts telling others they are off topic is also off topic.

I thought Kane support only making ISK by attacking because his in game business model is to be a paid mercenary service and not hold/defend territory. Wouldn't a change only help him...?

What would change? The donut would have no reason to exist. Selling clones would net no isk because their sell value is now 0, as per Kane's suggestion.

I think we all agree no one cares about PC and it will still be broken - at least this way people could actually have a go before it gets wiped and PC2.0 comes along in a few months time.

This is a real and plausible possibility to do now to improve Dust514. We will not be getting ANY mechanical changes to PC1.0, so this is one of the only things that can be done to change anything at all. If you'd rather keep it as it is right now, then you'd rather see no one playing PC1.0 at all.

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Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:

Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass

Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k

Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.

*******

While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.

The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.