|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2857
|
Posted - 2014.04.14 18:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Maybe for a while the reward should just be having your corp's name on the deed until something better is worked out. Let the ownership just be bragging rights or some other thing that doesn't discourage players from playing. I will think more about it but it is a very difficult situation. The potential problem I see is this change goes in and then we end up with no one wanting land. I'm not sure if prestige is enough. No one wants land already. Do you see people lining up to try to take it? No. Because unless you're the uber elite top 5% corps, you don't stand a chance. The only incentive in PC currently is to those already holding land - there is zero incentive for anyone outside to try to get in.
Give up the isk incentive and rely on the only reason being fun - people will still go for it because THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO. People will do it because it's more fun than pubs and FW. The best fun there has been in PC1.0 has been Thunderdome and PFC - do you see those people worrying about their passive isk?
That said, I'm against removing sale isk completely, more just the auto-sale; at least then people have to sell real clones off their land to make any money from them and risk leaving their districts vulnerable.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2859
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 08:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Look, forget any notion of "saving PC1.0". It's a lost cause and has been for many months. The only aim now should just to be to make it as much fun as it can be until it's completely gotten rid of. PC1.0 is no fun as it is now because everyone in there is just clamming up and holding onto their isk printers rather than caring about fighting.
Forget about incentives, just make it fun. Get rid of passive isk entirely and make the clones cheap to buy and there will be lots of attacks. If people don't want to bother defending their land, someone else will do it because some (I'd wager a lot) just want to have good fights and you can't get them from pubs or FW.
PC1.0 is dead. There is no reason for anyone to try to get into it because they know that they won't stand a chance. People don't want to get into PC right now even though everyone knows it's free isk if you can do it. There is no bigger incentive available and people still don't want to do it. There is no way you can do anything to incentivise them more, so stop trying. Take down the barriers to entry - drastically lower the clone pack costs.
You don't need to increase the biomass payout at all. Turn off passive isk and people will fight because there's nothing else to do. At least there'll be fights! If people want to self-attack to ensure they get isk, let them - they won't be able to do this on dozens of districts all at the same time and it'll leave the others open for other corps. This scenario is infinitely more preferable to the current corpse of PC1.0 that is withering away.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2860
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 12:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is:
Would you play PC if there were no passive isk?
This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0".
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2861
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Django Quik wrote:Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is:
Would you play PC if there were no passive isk?
This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0". You cant answer that question alone The problem with PC runs alot deeper than just passive ISK It needs a complete overhaul and starting from scratch To obtain the blue donut should be hard as hell but if no one is intrested in PC like it is now then it will be easier No one gives a **** about PC anymore, it doesnt really offer anything or mean anything There are other threads that discuss the deeper problems about PC1.0 and how they might be fixed. This thread is the product of some of those and asks a simple question with a simple premise - "If PC had no passive isk, would you still play it?"
You can and should answer that question alone because it is one serious possible change that could actually happen - any other thoughts of mechanics or limits or really anything other than simple numerical changes are not "on the table" for PC1.0. So let's discuss the question of the OP, not off-topic hypotheticals.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2861
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I don't think anyone would fight with PC 1.0 mechanics if passive ISK was taken away. Why would someone spend 100 or so million taking a district if there was no return on investment?
Now if clone packs were 5 or 10 million ISK AND passive ISK was taken away, I'd say hell yeah people would fight. But this would be glorified corp battles solely on the basis of wanting to play in a team deploy setting. It would take away any and all conquest strategy out of PC (of which there was little anyway). There is NO strategy to PC1.0. None. Zero. ZIlch.
No one's trying to take districts anyway.
We're still working on Kane to drop clone pack prices way way down.
Glorified corp battles would be better than no battles at all because no one even has a chance at PC1.0. It's not like corp battles are coming back any time soon. Might as well do something with PC1.0 because it's a waste of space as it is.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2861
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 17:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The full question is this
'If PC had no passive ISK, would you still play it even tho it would be exactly the same as it is now and no gameplay/mechanic changes would take place?
I can tell you what most players answers would be to the full question, it would be no, why would it be no? because nothing would change, the blue donut still exists, small corps dont give a crap, big corps dont care and farm pubs, donut wont care because its not hard to sell clones manually and they still keep the donut, PC would still suffer framerate/lag problems etc
You cannot answer OP question because it is a **** question, its redundant, the problems of PC far outweigh this and even if it changes would it infact change anything? no it wouldnt
What would change? The donut would have no reason to exist. Selling clones would net no isk because their sell value is now 0, as per Kane's suggestion.
I think we all agree no one cares about PC and it will still be broken - at least this way people could actually have a go before it gets wiped and PC2.0 comes along in a few months time.
This is a real and plausible possibility to do now to improve Dust514. We will not be getting ANY mechanical changes to PC1.0, so this is one of the only things that can be done to change anything at all. If you'd rather keep it as it is right now, then you'd rather see no one playing PC1.0 at all.
And Kain, I've said it before but you seem to be skipping over it - you can keep clone pack prices low and payouts high; you just have to only pay out for clones actually killed and not count undeployed clones in that number. Pretty sure that could be done in a hotfix with the number changes. Corps could still lock but in order to make any profit from it, they'd need to actively join the attack and kill themselves off. You couldn't do that with just 24 guys on dozens of districts all with the same timer.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2862
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote:Django Quik wrote:Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is:
Would you play PC if there were no passive isk?
This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0". Well it's pretty easy to see what kains ulterior motive is with the question, based on his responses throughout the thread. He knows that CCP is looking into removing the passive isk in the meantime to cut back on the Farmville game, and kain does not want that at all. So he Created this thread looking to garner support, yet received barely any. So because this was a **** thread asking a question that does nothing to change PC beyond culling gameplay that was never intended, people started going to the topics that actually had to do with makin PC a playable game mode instead of kains personal agenda. Btw, since you might be too busy wiggling your tongue around in kains ******* to notice, repeatedly creating posts telling others they are off topic is also off topic. This thread came out of other threads we've had discussing what to do about PC1.0 and removing passive isk was actually partially my idea and is something I'm really pushing for - if you think that's somehow supporting Kain, you're sadly completely misguided.
If you want to discuss other ways to improve PC1.0 go to those other threads and do it - this thread was clearly created to find out how people feel about a single proposal of removing passive isk.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2862
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Have a go? where it costs 50mil per attack?
It means only the rich can wage war while the peasents are left to pubs
I said that on page 1 and we have gone around in a full circle now If you'd read my other posts you'd know I'm also for drastically reducing clone pack price. In fact I stated as much in the part of my post that you didn't quote.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2863
|
Posted - 2014.04.15 19:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:ISK only for fighting is even worse than Passive ISK, as there would be no point to hold land. The district would have no value. It would not matter if you were the attacker or defender.
Districts need to have a way to make ISK for a Corp that requires effort on the part of the members of that Corp. The system needs to insure that the more districts your Corp has, the more work it is to keep them all making ISK. You should need 1000 active members to hold all of MH and keep the districts pumping our ISK at full capacity. Obviously we need to get rid of District Locking.
- PVE - Industry - Complicated District based mining setups similar to PI in EVE.
Districts should provide the potential for big profits, but it should require work to actualize that potential. These ideas, though good, can not be implemented in PC1.0, so the question is: do we leave PC as it is until PC2.0 comes along? Or do we take away any incentive to lock and donut and make Molden Heath accessible to many many more corps?
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2866
|
Posted - 2014.04.16 07:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:If you can't beat them now then what makes you think that you can beat them with no passive income? They are good at playing the game and that isn't going to change. Why would they try to hold onto so much land if it generated no income? It would also be the true test of Kain's statement that the DNS takeover was just to make a point and force CCP into changing PC1.0.
If clone pack prices were drastically reduced, zerg attacks would actually be viable and every corp in the game would actually be able to attack. There'd be much lesser entry barriers to PC.
With no incentive to hold land, there would obviously be people who would no show obviously more powerful attackers, so they'll lose the land they can't/won't defend. But since the only way to gain anything from PC would be to fight, people would gladly fight opponents they think they stand a chance against. This will hopefully result in corps self-matchmaking - picking corps to attack that they stand a decent chance of actually getting fights from and also a chance of winning. Big scary corps would only get fights from other big scary corps and smaller corps would likewise fight each other. Granted this wouldn't stop people self-locking or taking over the whole of MH but what would be the point? They'd gain nothing from either of those activities.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
|
|
|
|
|