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Would you fight for and hold land if there was no passive ISK?

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Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2862	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:22:00 - [181] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Django Quik wrote: Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is: Would you play PC if there were no passive isk? This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0". Well it's pretty easy to see what kains ulterior motive is with the question, based on his responses throughout the thread. He knows that CCP is looking into removing the passive isk in the meantime to cut back on the Farmville game, and kain does not want that at all. So he Created this thread looking to garner support, yet received barely any. So because this was a ** thread asking a question that does nothing to change PC beyond culling gameplay that was never intended, people started going to the topics that actually had to do with makin PC a playable game mode instead of kains personal agenda. Btw, since you might be too busy wiggling your tongue around in kains ***** to notice, repeatedly creating posts telling others they are off topic is also off topic. This thread came out of other threads we've had discussing what to do about PC1.0 and removing passive isk was actually partially my idea and is something I'm really pushing for - if you think that's somehow supporting Kain, you're sadly completely misguided. If you want to discuss other ways to improve PC1.0 go to those other threads and do it - this thread was clearly created to find out how people feel about a single proposal of removing passive isk. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2862	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:23:00 - [182] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Have a go? where it costs 50mil per attack? It means only the rich can wage war while the peasents are left to pubs I said that on page 1 and we have gone around in a full circle now If you'd read my other posts you'd know I'm also for drastically reducing clone pack price. In fact I stated as much in the part of my post that you didn't quote. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
General John Ripper 20059	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:24:00 - [183] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Django Quik wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Django Quik wrote: Can we please try to keep this discussion on topic - that is: Would you play PC if there were no passive isk? This is not about "what can be done to save PC1.0". This is not "what should be done for PC2.0". This is not "what else could be done for PC1.0". You cant answer that question alone The problem with PC runs alot deeper than just passive ISK It needs a complete overhaul and starting from scratch To obtain the blue donut should be hard as hell but if no one is intrested in PC like it is now then it will be easier No one gives a ** about PC anymore, it doesnt really offer anything or mean anything There are other threads that discuss the deeper problems about PC1.0 and how they might be fixed. This thread is the product of some of those and asks a simple question with a simple premise - "If PC had no passive isk, would you still play it?" You can and should answer that question alone because it is one serious possible change that could actually happen - any other thoughts of mechanics or limits or really anything other than simple numerical changes are not "on the table" for PC1.0. So let's discuss the question of the OP, not off-topic hypotheticals. The full question is this 'If PC had no passive ISK, would you still play it even tho it would be exactly the same as it is now and no gameplay/mechanic changes would take place? I can tell you what most players answers would be to the full question, it would be no, why would it be no? because nothing would change, the blue donut still exists, small corps dont give a crap, big corps dont care and farm pubs, donut wont care because its not hard to sell clones manually and they still keep the donut, PC would still suffer framerate/lag problems etc You cannot answer OP question because it is a ** question, its redundant, the problems of PC far outweigh this and even if it changes would it infact change anything? no it wouldnt Part of me thinks the question is actually, "If we weren't making billions and billions of ISK each day, would you guys still think I'm an ahole?". I don't think that is the entirety of it, but I really believe from the many posts from those within the donut that they think they've tactically joined this super alliance in preparation for all the fighting that's just around the corner. I think Thor is a pretty good guy and a good sport. who cares what his wallet is? It has nothing to do with the person. Don't just disagree because your jelly. The players in pc are more in a position to tell you what is broken or not. Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed. 20k bugs fixed. :)
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2863	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:29:00 - [184] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ISK only for fighting is even worse than Passive ISK, as there would be no point to hold land. The district would have no value. It would not matter if you were the attacker or defender. Districts need to have a way to make ISK for a Corp that requires effort on the part of the members of that Corp. The system needs to insure that the more districts your Corp has, the more work it is to keep them all making ISK. You should need 1000 active members to hold all of MH and keep the districts pumping our ISK at full capacity. Obviously we need to get rid of District Locking. - PVE - Industry - Complicated District based mining setups similar to PI in EVE. Districts should provide the potential for big profits, but it should require work to actualize that potential. These ideas, though good, can not be implemented in PC1.0, so the question is: do we leave PC as it is until PC2.0 comes along? Or do we take away any incentive to lock and donut and make Molden Heath accessible to many many more corps? Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3321	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:35:00 - [185] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Have a go? where it costs 50mil per attack? It means only the rich can wage war while the peasents are left to pubs I said that on page 1 and we have gone around in a full circle now If you'd read my other posts you'd know I'm also for drastically reducing clone pack price. In fact I stated as much in the part of my post that you didn't quote. The issue there is if you make clone packs even cheaper than the are now we are going to be right back where we were with 1.7 with 90% of Molden Heath locked under self -attacks except this time you'll have players running the mock battles to extract ISK. Unfortunately this enumerates one of the core problems which is clones being both the thing you use to fight AND your source of income. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
General John Ripper 20060	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:39:00 - [186] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Django Quik wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Have a go? where it costs 50mil per attack? It means only the rich can wage war while the peasents are left to pubs I said that on page 1 and we have gone around in a full circle now If you'd read my other posts you'd know I'm also for drastically reducing clone pack price. In fact I stated as much in the part of my post that you didn't quote. The issue there is if you make clone packs even cheaper than the are now we are going to be right back where we were with 1.7 with 90% of Molden Heath locked under self -attacks except this time you'll have players running the mock battles to extract ISK. Unfortunately this enumerates one of the core problems which is clones being both the thing you use to fight AND your source of income. Clones shouldn't be a main source of income. Revamp the salvage system to make up for the clone income. Players build up a huge inventory of proto gear they can't use. Foundation for player market is starting to be built. Whats the point of player market if people will only sell officer gear? Why would they buy gear at a standardized price just to resell in the market? The salvage system is the yin to the markets yang. Instead of looking at just one piece of the puzzle, see how they can fit together and create a balance. That only solves part of it, still need to figure out what passive benefits the district should give. Any ideas that can help me further expand my thoughts? Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed. 20k bugs fixed. :)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3379	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:45:00 - [187] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Django Quik wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Have a go? where it costs 50mil per attack? It means only the rich can wage war while the peasents are left to pubs I said that on page 1 and we have gone around in a full circle now If you'd read my other posts you'd know I'm also for drastically reducing clone pack price. In fact I stated as much in the part of my post that you didn't quote. The issue there is if you make clone packs even cheaper than the are now we are going to be right back where we were with 1.7 with 90% of Molden Heath locked under self -attacks except this time you'll have players running the mock battles to extract ISK. Unfortunately this enumerates one of the core problems which is clones being both the thing you use to fight AND your source of income. But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? Level 3 Forum Warrior
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3379	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:47:00 - [188] - Quote I want to make something clear about my recent posts on this subject. I don't think any of this is a long term answer. I'm talking about a short term solution to prevent Dust's economy from being damaged beyond repair as well as stimulating some team play in preparation for PC 2.0. Level 3 Forum Warrior
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3321	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:55:00 - [189] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3379	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:03:00 - [190] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. I hear you, but if people lock in that scenario then it means that we can't ever have nice things. Level 3 Forum Warrior

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3379	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:04:00 - [191] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. If I had to guess KEQ and Eternal Beings just don't want to give you 100% of MH. Level 3 Forum Warrior
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3321	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:05:00 - [192] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. If I had to guess KEQ and Eternal Beings just don't want to give you 100% of MH. Maybe so, but what it proves is that given the proper motivation (whether that is ISK or denying an enemy an asset) the player behavior will occur. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:07:00 - [193] - Quote The removal of passive ISK from PC should have been done a long time ago, as soon as the first profitable locking occurred. So, I'm all for removing it now. Why am I for this? The removal of passive ISK from PC does not affect the other game modes in a negative way. However, leaving passive ISK does negatively impact other game modes. PC 1.0 is dead right now; so, what would it hurt? Remove passive ISK, lower clone packs to 16 mil for 200 clones, and just watch how active PC becomes. There will be no more locking because it gains you nothing. The only advantage of owning districts is prestige and the fact you can attack or defend at no cost (other than Merc gear). There are plenty of corps that only want good fights and a way to team deploy. Se\7eN, for example, would take on anyone and have fun doing so, win or lose. Do you know why? Because it's a freaking game and we want to play as a team vs other teams that share our mindset. It will be a great way to prepare for PC 2.0. It would honestly be a way to bring back corp battles, which was the best part of Dust that I've experienced.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 910	Posted - 2014.04.15 20:57:00 - [194] - Quote thinking only in short term solutions, I could support stopping passive ISK and lowering the cost of clones packs. go for it see my previous posts about longer term solutions *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3379	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:21:00 - [195] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. If I had to guess KEQ and Eternal Beings just don't want to give you 100% of MH. Maybe so, but what it proves is that given the proper motivation (whether that is ISK or denying an enemy an asset) the player behavior will occur. I'm 100% certain that dropping 150 or 200 clone packs for even 40 mil isn't going to result in fighting on a large scale. If you drop clone packs down to 5 to 10 mil there would be a lot of fighting, I guess it depends on what you want out of this. Level 3 Forum Warrior
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 713	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:34:00 - [196] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But if there is no passive ISK from the districts why would you lock them? If you are looking at 5 mil a lock but a match pays out 16 to 32 mil or more per mock battle then you could easily manage to lock everything down or just enough to easily prevent any kind of timer stacking while providing content to your members and ISK. Heck even with 36 million ISK clone packs Enternal Beings and KEQ did just this running battles on their district on Oddelulf and letting the district pass back and forth. Better still, or worse, you lock half or more of your districts and then let the others come under attack from a mass wave of cheap clone packs and you just sit back and farm the battles in easily managed chunks. Change passive isk to passive LP gain. Removes the hatred of hoarding billions of isk, adds a slight incentive to hold district. The top corps prolly wouldn't care for the LP, so they wouldn't defend as adamantly, thus allowing lower corps to attack and gain districts. Lower corps would have an incentive to defend for the LP so they can save their ISK for PC by using relatively free gear in pubs. Of course the passive LP would have to be a large enough amount for corps to decide whether it's worth the risk and isk to defend. Though I suppose that wouldn't exactly make sense with New Eden's purpose of loyalty points since it's not a faction related game mode.
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 36	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:36:00 - [197] - Quote anaboop wrote: Reset isk Limit districts held per corp/alliance No ringers outside of alliance Alliances with to many districts must break from alliance In order to gain more disricts Thats all that comes to mind atm lol Isk wipe and asset wipe of isk purchased gear. As far as dust goes now, its just not worth the time your basically better off afking farming til cap in a day or two then wait for reset rinse and repeat. Until CCP takes away all that ill gotten profit, I refuse to play simple as that. Passive isk doesnt matter, its the holding all of the districts which is the problem In the moment when I understand my enemy, well enough to defeat him, I also love him. And then I destroy him.
Vulpes Dolosus Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 1391	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:04:00 - [198] - Quote I'd like to see a form of PvE generate ISK rather than passively. Basically you fight over a district in PC and then you are awarded a contract to kill rats (probably rogue drones or something) or something every so many hours or so many times a day (these could also affect clone creation for PC defense as well as planetary interaction for EvE players). That way owning large amounts of districts would be difficult to complete contracts for and costly to defend, opening either more corps to PC or allowing larger land owners to rent out their unfillable contracts. Not to mention it kills two birds with one stone fixing PC and introducing PvE. Me in my ADS: 1,2
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1678	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:13:00 - [199] - Quote I love the question "If you remove passive ISK who'd play PC?" Because the real question is "Who's playing it now?" I'm sure more people would play if it was less expensive to get into and less profitable, because 99% of Dust isn't playing it anyway. Supporter of tiericide, EVE interaction, and a proper NPE SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3468	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:19:00 - [200] - Quote Holding territory must serve a purpose. If no isk is given passively in one form or another, then the territory holds no purpose. The fights do, but if all we're playing for is gudfights then we don't need a map with territory on it. In which case, CCP made the wrong game.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3384	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:30:00 - [201] - Quote anaboop wrote: anaboop wrote: Reset isk Limit districts held per corp/alliance No ringers outside of alliance Alliances with to many districts must break from alliance In order to gain more disricts Thats all that comes to mind atm lol Isk wipe and asset wipe of isk purchased gear. As far as dust goes now, its just not worth the time your basically better off afking farming til cap in a day or two then wait for reset rinse and repeat. Until CCP takes away all that ill gotten profit, I refuse to play simple as that. Passive isk doesnt matter, its the holding all of the districts which is the problem That would be a good solution if you were going for under 100 players online instead of 4000. Level 3 Forum Warrior
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Unit Unicorn 2257	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:30:00 - [202] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land? This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. I haven't gone through the whole thread, but I would actually love if there were some kind of meaning behind districts. Maybe not just for us, but for Eve players too, like, don't know, Industry? Mining? Or Pve on districts. This Idea is actually a great Idea: if nobody attacks you, no one gets the money. But there should be another meaning behind districts. -#Firmocosìperchènonhopersonalità
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3384	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:37:00 - [203] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Holding territory must serve a purpose. If no isk is given passively in one form or another, then the territory holds no purpose. The fights do, but if all we're playing for is gudfights then we don't need a map with territory on it. In which case, CCP made the wrong game. I believe PC 2.0 will have ways to become wealthy and I certainly imagine there is some form of conquest/territorial conflict involved. Level 3 Forum Warrior
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 37	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:59:00 - [204] - Quote I've reappeared to change my opinion. Until the issues with lag & equipment spamming have been changed it's just too much of a headache and rising blood pressure to take. I refuse to play PC and to take it a step farther, i refuse to play with/against any members of the Dirt Nap Squad. Because of my own and the rest of the players/corps/alliances ability to take PC districts away from you, DNS sits on a rising throne of isk. Your constant spamming of proto suits - no, your required use of proto suits - and prototype gear tanks & dropships takes away all the fun of playing against you. I've had one match in 2 weeks that was actually fun to play against your members and that was because they were only 2, they didn't equipment spam, and they stuck to a LAV. Did they kill me a bunch? Hell yeah. Was it Challenging? Hell yeah again. Was it fun? yes. And then the next match they bulled out dual ADS and raped tanks, dropships, LAVs, and finally infantry until the match was over with 130ish clones to 0. Hopefully in the future DNS will uplift whatever protosuit requirements they (or their members) have and use skill to win matches. Until then. Good day. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2337	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:12:00 - [205] - Quote The only way to fix PC in the long run is to allow battles that can flip the district every three to four hours so that the corps that hold the district have to be there all the time to hold it or some type of sov mechanic like in EVE in which the attackers have to place a District Control Unit in the district. The DCU would have massive HP and have to be taken out with damage done and/or time hacked. Any other approach makes it very difficult to dislodge a handful of good players. Even with no ISK at all DNS will still own all of the districts because there aren't any corps that can touch their caliber of players and by forcing them to constantly fight in an ISK sink will either burn them out or make them go broke. A battle every 24 hours at the time of their choosing is the root problem, not ISK generation. ISK generation is just a side effect of a bad takeover mechanic. If you can't beat them now then what makes you think that you can beat them with no passive income? They are good at playing the game and that isn't going to change. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Doc Browner Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 238	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:21:00 - [206] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land? This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. What are you all alone in your sandbox? Need someone to play with? As far as I'm concerned is the best thing the community can do is completely Ignore the whole scam y'all got going on. Just leave you alone in your sandbox to play with yourself. Then maybe CCP will fix it and we all can have fun competing for districts on the GAME we call DUST 514 It's sad that CCP thinks this is good for their game proto 24/7 against noobs is great for the new player experience CCP could remove dirt nap from Pub matches and give them moldy health to play proto stompers in all day Dirt Nap has ruined PC, the lagging has ruined it, and last but not least the EVE culture has ruined it I spill my Blood for Freedom and righteousness
The Robot Devil Brave Bunnies Brave Collective 2338	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:27:00 - [207] - Quote Doc Browner wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land? This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. What are you all alone in your sandbox? Need someone to play with? As far as I'm concerned is the best thing the community can do is completely Ignore the whole scam y'all got going on. Just leave you alone in your sandbox to play with yourself. Then maybe CCP will fix it and we all can have fun competing for districts on the GAME we call DUST 514 It's sad that CCP thinks this is good for their game proto 24/7 against noobs is great for the new player experience CCP could remove dirt nap from Pub matches and give them moldy health to play proto stompers in all day Dirt Nap has ruined PC, the lagging has ruined it, and last but not least the EVE culture has ruined it So being good at the game and working hard to make friends has broken the game? DNS is good at what they do and has worked hard to bring the best players into one spot. It is good players moving as a group to accomplish a goal and little else. Don't be mad at skilled diplomats and fighters because we as a community can't break their resolve. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Canari Elphus Dirt Nap Squad. 1433	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:45:00 - [208] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Doc Browner wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land? This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. What are you all alone in your sandbox? Need someone to play with? As far as I'm concerned is the best thing the community can do is completely Ignore the whole scam y'all got going on. Just leave you alone in your sandbox to play with yourself. Then maybe CCP will fix it and we all can have fun competing for districts on the GAME we call DUST 514 It's sad that CCP thinks this is good for their game proto 24/7 against noobs is great for the new player experience CCP could remove dirt nap from Pub matches and give them moldy health to play proto stompers in all day Dirt Nap has ruined PC, the lagging has ruined it, and last but not least the EVE culture has ruined it So being good at the game and working hard to make friends has broken the game? DNS is good at what they do and has worked hard to bring the best players into one spot. It is good players moving as a group to accomplish a goal and little else. Don't be mad at skilled diplomats and fighters because we as a community can't break their resolve. It is also based on the false assumption that corps within DNS are the only ones that run proto in pub matches. With how much I see proto on a regular basis, I would expect that almost every corp in the game would do it if they had the financial means. As to the topic itself, I would still fight for land if there was no 'passive' isk generation but rather active. As stated many times, something needs to have value for you to want to fight for it. Selling clones for ISK was a bad mechanic from the start and probably only introduced due to the deadline of having to 'release' the game in May. If they really wanted to throw New Eden for a loop, they would have district control have an impact on SOV mechanics and provide bonuses (or penalties should bunnies invade a district in an enemy one) to player controlled systems in null. Im sure pilots would pay a pretty penny if those mechanics were introduced and it would work to allow for corps of all skill levels to have a piece of the pie as there are a ton of systems and there is no way that the best corps could be involved in each fight. You would see two types of groups emerge, the true merc and the payroll merc. True mercs would go to the highest bidder no matter the side while the payroll mercs would receive a contracted paycheck whether there is a fight or not. Canari Elphus for CPM1
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion League of Infamy 173	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:00:00 - [209] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows: Plan One: Passive Reduction Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass Plan Two: Passive Elimination Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack. ******* While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC. The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale. So..... why not remove passive isk income and add an isk multiplier payout for each districts owned (up to 10 or whatever is a reasonable amount) when playing pubs matches and faction points earned in FW? Doing so gives people reason to play all game modes then and restricts the amount of districts owned per corporation. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion League of Infamy 173	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:05:00 - [210] - Quote Double post my bad Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.



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