DUST Search - Would you fight for and hold land if there was no passive ISK?

Leonid Tybalt wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Leonid Tybalt wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

I just can't wrap my head around wanting to increasewst of entry for a game mode that is suffering from a lack of participation.

It would be like a restaurant that is struggling increasing the cost of their entrees.

Forget about this blue donut for a sec.......lack of participation has to do with corps being afraid to attack or feeling that they aren't ready or good enough. Not sure if even we lowered clone pack attacks to $5M..would we get corps out of pubs and trying to get into pc.

And why the **** do you think they are afraid to attack huh?

If they knew their corp wallets wouldn't be nearly empty after a single attack like it is now (clone pack costs, vehicle and dropsuit reimbursements etc.) then smaller corps would probably be delighted to attack.

But you assholes are locking all the smaller corps out.

they're afraid cause they're aware of who they can't beat.

Smaller corps weren't participating before this donut anyway. Only ones that tried were on PFC and they asked for protection. Those PFC corps were even asking for protection from smaller corps instead of only from the bigger dogs. So, blame those smaller corps for locking other small corp's out and removing their ability to compete.

Bullshit.

Your argument makes 0 logical sense. What would the smaller corps have to be "afraid" of? Losing a battle? It's not the end of theworld to lose a battle. It is however the end of certain corps if they lose too many PC battles due to costs.

Costs that you members of the blue sphincter don't need to care about since your chickenshit passive isk farming insures that every team in every PC battle you partake in can run full proto gear and lose it, without taking a financial hit because passive isk farming alone makes up for those losses in about an hour.

It's like a billionaire joining a friday night poker game with a bunch of low income working men, and feel "gutsy" going all in on thefirst hand...

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Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 911	Posted - 2014.04.16 01:41:00 - [211] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I love the question "If you remove passive ISK who'd play PC?" Because the real question is "Who's playing it now?" I'm sure more people would play if it was less expensive to get into and less profitable, because 99% of Dust isn't playing it anyway. Yea, PC is very busted right now and DNS doesn't seem to be helping that, thought they say they will... *Faction Channels for FW Staging* PIE Ground Control \| Caldari Hierarchy \| Turalyon \| Chosen Matari
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2866	Posted - 2014.04.16 07:28:00 - [212] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: If you can't beat them now then what makes you think that you can beat them with no passive income? They are good at playing the game and that isn't going to change. Why would they try to hold onto so much land if it generated no income? It would also be the true test of Kain's statement that the DNS takeover was just to make a point and force CCP into changing PC1.0. If clone pack prices were drastically reduced, zerg attacks would actually be viable and every corp in the game would actually be able to attack. There'd be much lesser entry barriers to PC. With no incentive to hold land, there would obviously be people who would no show obviously more powerful attackers, so they'll lose the land they can't/won't defend. But since the only way to gain anything from PC would be to fight, people would gladly fight opponents they think they stand a chance against. This will hopefully result in corps self-matchmaking - picking corps to attack that they stand a decent chance of actually getting fights from and also a chance of winning. Big scary corps would only get fights from other big scary corps and smaller corps would likewise fight each other. Granted this wouldn't stop people self-locking or taking over the whole of MH but what would be the point? They'd gain nothing from either of those activities. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:36:00 - [213] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows: Plan One: Passive Reduction Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass Plan Two: Passive Elimination Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack. ******* While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC. The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale. So..... why not remove passive isk income and add an isk multiplier payout for each districts owned (up to 10 or whatever is a reasonable amount) when playing pubs matches and faction points earned in FW? Doing so gives people reason to play all game modes then and restricts the amount of districts owned per corporation. I like this idea for multiple reasons. 1st it removes the passive isk farming which nearly every player outside of DNS hates 2nd, it provides a "limiter" if you would on the number of districts you could hold. Why go beyond so many districts if it no longer becomes worth it? However, it wouldn't provide enough of a restriction since it would still be a defensive strategy to keep all the districts, or be a means of making isk to constantly attack other districts. 3rd, it's simple. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 43	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:46:00 - [214] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Doc Browner wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land? This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing. What are you all alone in your sandbox? Need someone to play with? As far as I'm concerned is the best thing the community can do is completely Ignore the whole scam y'all got going on. Just leave you alone in your sandbox to play with yourself. Then maybe CCP will fix it and we all can have fun competing for districts on the GAME we call DUST 514 It's sad that CCP thinks this is good for their game proto 24/7 against noobs is great for the new player experience CCP could remove dirt nap from Pub matches and give them moldy health to play proto stompers in all day Dirt Nap has ruined PC, the lagging has ruined it, and last but not least the EVE culture has ruined it So being good at the game and working hard to make friends has broken the game? DNS is good at what they do and has worked hard to bring the best players into one spot. It is good players moving as a group to accomplish a goal and little else. Don't be mad at skilled diplomats and fighters because we as a community can't break their resolve. Hate to burst your bubble, but many other players and myself have played against members of DNS and we have seen a trend, a definite pattern if you would. Even when using proto gear, as long as there isn't too much lag then many of their players lose a lot of their "skill" and are easier to kill. Now, before everyone starts yelling at me or picking me off at the battlefield all the time (go ahead lets play the game - introduce bounty hunter systems CCP), I do not mean that all of DNS are only good when they proto-stomp or make use of strong lag. I've come across many good players that I've said, "yes, I should have died most of the time against them". That being said, I've taken out DNS madrugars and gunnlogis with advanced swarm launchers and remote explosives. I've taken down heavies with starter suits, I've killed logis and assaults in my basic scouts/sentinels/commanods. I've wrecked the LAVs when 1 or 2 of them try to run me over as if they were still using logi LAVs. And i've had a number of good Last Stands against overwhelming proto forces and survived long enough to take down at least one guy (at most I think was 12 and that was against a squad of Nyain San). Why am I saying all this? I probably got a little irritated with your statement above about "being good at the game" or "working hard to bring the best players into one spot" since there is too much evidence that a number of DNS players are really only 'at their best' when lag is on their side. To the members of DNS that are still good beyond the lag... good luck, have fun, good fight. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Yagihige Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 750	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:45:00 - [215] - Quote How about if we were to entirely remove the selling of clones to NPC for profit? Meaning you could only sell clones to other players. Corps would have to actively find buyers for their produced clones instead of it being an automatic way to earn money. If a corp wanted to supply their own members, they could donate clones or sell them directly at the lowest they could without losing money. If any corp/alliance owned too many districts on their own they'd be sitting on a stack of unusable clones. Corps would want to sell clones to players outside of the elite and open up ways for many more people to participate in PC. A Clone Market would be introduced. Anyone could browse this market and buy clones from PC corps. Clone packs would still be available for corps to buy at a higher price. Corps that opted to buy the packs would then need to distribute bought clones between their members. These clones also couldn't be resold on the clone market. A corp selling on the market could put their clones up for sale either as free clones, slave clones or excluded clones. This would mean that they could prevent rival corps from buying clones and use them against the selling corp. Free clones could be used against any corp, slave clones could only be used in favor of the selling corp and excluded clones could be used against any other corp but the selling corp. Corps would have safeguards, when selling clones they coulp require that the buyer has a minimum amount of SP or require approval from corp directors before your buy offer is accepted. Once clones are in the hands of individual players they can't be put back in the market again or transferred back to the corp, they have to be used in the battlefield. Then when battles were scheduled, CEOs would need to set the minimum number of clones each player would need to bring in with them. 10 clones meaning at least a total of 160, 20 clones meaning at least a total of 320, whatever. You could still function as usual and use players of your choice or open up the battle to whoever filled the prerequisite number of clones to enter. If done well, this could open up PC to smaller corps and limit how much territory any corp can control before their income stalls. em ta kool t'nod
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3340	Posted - 2014.04.16 14:40:00 - [216] - Quote The meeting with CCP went very well. I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes that could improve the situation. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1969	Posted - 2014.04.16 14:48:00 - [217] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes that could improve the situation. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size. Is there any chance that we may see them demonstrate this understanding in the very near future? I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1464	Posted - 2014.04.16 15:06:00 - [218] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kain Spero wrote: I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes that could improve the situation. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size. Is there any chance that we may see them demonstrate this understanding in the very near future? Better question, what did you tell them the community wants?
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1466	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:28:00 - [219] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: The meeting with CCP went very well. I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes that could improve the situation. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size. I'll guess that since you didn't mention it, significant clone pack cost reduction was not part of your discussion, enjoy your continued blue donut...
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1025	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:33:00 - [220] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: Kain Spero wrote: The meeting with CCP went very well. I think CCP understands that there are complex issues regarding Planetary Conquest with some potentially straight forward changes that could improve the situation. The most important of these issues being passive ISK and clone pack size. I'll guess that since you didn't mention it, significant clone pack cost reduction was not part of your discussion, enjoy your continued blue donut... whats a bluenut? Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2794	Posted - 2014.04.17 20:28:00 - [221] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I just can't wrap my head around wanting to increasewst of entry for a game mode that is suffering from a lack of participation. It would be like a restaurant that is struggling increasing the cost of their entrees. Forget about this blue donut for a sec.......lack of participation has to do with corps being afraid to attack or feeling that they aren't ready or good enough. Not sure if even we lowered clone pack attacks to $5M..would we get corps out of pubs and trying to get into pc. And why the **** do you think they are afraid to attack huh? If they knew their corp wallets wouldn't be nearly empty after a single attack like it is now (clone pack costs, vehicle and dropsuit reimbursements etc.) then smaller corps would probably be delighted to attack. But you assholes are locking all the smaller corps out. they're afraid cause they're aware of who they can't beat. Smaller corps weren't participating before this donut anyway. Only ones that tried were on PFC and they asked for protection. Those PFC corps were even asking for protection from smaller corps instead of only from the bigger dogs. So, blame those smaller corps for locking other small corp's out and removing their ability to compete. Bullshit. Your argument makes 0 logical sense. What would the smaller corps have to be "afraid" of? Losing a battle? It's not the end of theworld to lose a battle. It is however the end of certain corps if they lose too many PC battles due to costs. Costs that you members of the blue sphincter don't need to care about since your chickenshit passive isk farming insures that every team in every PC battle you partake in can run full proto gear and lose it, without taking a financial hit because passive isk farming alone makes up for those losses in about an hour. It's like a billionaire joining a friday night poker game with a bunch of low income working men, and feel "gutsy" going all in on thefirst hand... Losing ISK comes with losing a battle..it is what it is. A lot of the corps lost ISK when pc started. At the beginning of pc we had to fight to get districts since we didn't land grab. Clone pack cost $80M and it took $240M to take a hub or $160M to take a prod facility. If you lose any one of those battles, you had to start over. So, don't make excuses for why corps aren't launching. I'm not saying that a clone pack is adequate but when we started, clone packs were $80M. The risk of losing ISK is something we had to take if we wanted to pc. And that's what they need to do as well...period! If they feel that they are going to lose, then they won't attack, which has always been the case. weRideNDie2getha since 2010
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 770	Posted - 2014.04.17 21:13:00 - [222] - Quote ...y not just add a protocol into pc..for a tempory fix.protocol will activate when any group of corps/alliance takes control of more than 60% if districts on molden heath. during which concord drafts 5-6 players picked by ccp to run battles and take districts from controlling alliance/corps.they will also by issued a special fitting and tag.to symbolize the protocol. the fit makes them invincible and so on. and each district they take is perma lock for the duration of the protocol. and the protocol ends when controlling corps/alliance have less than 5-10% districts of molden heathe. during which the protocol ends and the hand picked players lose the suits and tags. as well with all the isk and items that may have been acquired so theres essentially no reward in doing it. and all districts that were captured by these 5-6 players will be immediately set to neutral. and so on..which intended result would make molden heathe impossible to take complete control of ever again.and also make the game mode more open to a larger amount of corps/players and so forth.and should hurt the isk farming as well. would go into more detail but am pretty sure no one wants to suffer the consequences of being dicks.oh.forgot.controling alliances teams will be un able to leave or back out of the battle once entered during the protocol.so they have to stand and get slaughtered and taste the pain they've been causing...until ccp finds a better solution to fix the game mode. ^my preferred idea though. other idea is to just have all districts be reset to neutral every two weeks. mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere...


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