I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?

This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing.

Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:

Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass

Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k

Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.

*******

While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.

The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.

The way it is now:
36 million for a clone pack
10 million isk made by selling extra clones
What it should be:
1-5million for clone pack
District generates 1-2million daily

*PC shouldn't be about the corperations losses or gains the corperation shouldn't be like "well we can't do PC because its 40 kagiillion isk!" There should be cheap battles for corps so people can do what they want which is to fight. The losses and gains should be more concerning to the player not the corp, if ccp listens to your half brained idea then not only will people who have never done it won't want to spend 40 million isk to fight but veteran corps will be unwilling to pay to reattack lost districts
I mean which do you prefer BROKEN OR A DEAD game mode ?

OR someone could listen to my idea for once and everyone would win new players and old players.

Real solutions:
1. Remove all passive isk generation. You must actively use your district to make money (PvE) Officer item generation is better than the current isk generation. Low chance of officer drops and other equipment based on usage. PC should revolve around bottom-up income streams.

2. Allow corps to bring 64 players into a match. No more 24 player groups defending 100 districts (some districts can have 64, 32, 12.) Allows smaller elite corps to hold specific districts and never lose them while allowing larger corps the freedom to "zerg" smaller elite corps

3. Reinforcement timers should only effect the last battle. Attacks should be able to happen at any time. Once there is 200 clones the distinct is locked and the final battle happens on the specified timer. Again, keeps single 25 man corps from holding onto large swaths of land and timer stacking. (all corp members get a mail when a district is under attack and they can go defend)

4. Remove clone packs entirely. Allow corps to "accrue" clones through FW/Pubs. They are allowed to have a single facility as a corp that is genolution owned. Once full they can use this to raid a single district. It can only be used when full, all clones are sent. Clone generation rate needs to be balanced. (a corp in PC should not be using clone packs, if they want to use clone packs they have to play pubs/FW to earn them. They can only earn one. This keeps "shell corps" from becoming an issue as then the players have to be active in that corp and can only issue a single attack)

How could you say that adding more players into the match would be a good idea? It's already at 32 players (16v16) and has more lag than all other game types combined. Doubling the number of players in theory could decrease said lag, but with CCP's record and abilities would more than likely destroy the gameplay entirely.

Single cargo hub owned by shell corp "launches an attack with all 450 clones", 90 million isk is transferred to "real corp". Clone pack is purchased by real corp to resecure cargo hub and another is sent to "lock" and generate another 24 million isk.

^^^ 1.0 is unfixable.

Actually, they could just send a 449 attack, and leave 1 on the district to save the cost of one clone pack.

The problem with PC is that there really isnt a lot of reason to desire holding a district without passive isk generation. If you remove that, it becomes the old corporation battle system with a really complex interface. There needs to be a reason for players to desire holding/owning a district and clearly passive isk generation is not a great motivator. But, that level of change requires a large iteration and will be a while until it is implemented. So...

Given that PC has been a colossal failure overall (which has to do with both the mechanics of the game mode and how horrible the lag is in PC matches) I feel at this point there probably isnt much reason to keep it around. I say remove passive isk generation, let PC fall apart and stay in shambles until they can revamp it with a 2.0 iteration. Its certainly a better alternative that allowing the broken game mode to inject so much isk into the economy while we all wait for a real fix.

You can still make money off of battles at least, so there is still a reason to play it occasionally.

I say remove biomass sale. Leave the biomass destruction at the number it is now and make clone packs free (or almost free). It destroys PC but leaves it from affecting dust until 2.0 comes out. yes people could actively farm districts but that requires effort at least.

As long as I have the CPM tag and even after I'm still going to do what I can to make the game better for the community. I may be crazy or naive, but at this point I'm following it through to the end.

Lag is not a derivative of the number of people playing. Frame rate, yes. But its not my job to optimize the code, thats up to CCP to ensure. There are plenty of PS3 games that go far and above the 32 player limit. Many of them are 6+ years old.

I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?

This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing.

While this is an interesting concept, let play it out a few months.

1 st question after you take a district could you sell the clones off it and abandon the district?

It would seem to encourage more corps to just no show battles why put the effort into holding it if you know you might loose.

Only fight against corps you know you could beat and not take on the tougher corps, would kinda be like the corp battles of old

Many many no shows and people ducking fights.

Let it play out a few months? How many billions of ISK would that be? 200 or so?

Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:

Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass

Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k

Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.

*******

While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.

The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.

You no whats best for the game...Cut DNS territory in half and let everything get stable again so the zero care protostompers will disappear allowing newer people to come in and stand a chance....there are many times ive thought of dropping this game in the trash were it belongs in its current state cause its 0 fun unless you have gods grace to end up on the side of the stompers and then its still barely fun cause there is nothing to do.....the only reason i can think thats keeping me on is my corp...no...my friends ive made before this started

Passive ISK isnt a problem...its whos owning and controling that money is were any problem is at

So, when you buy a proto suit.....it only comes from a corp that manufactured it through their districts and sold it on the market. I don't know if CCP would have us manufacture these items, manually. So, if we were to manufacture them passively, ... we are back to the current system.

You know the only way to fix this now? with all the ISK that has built up? Inflation. That is literally the only way for things to be fixed, there would be massive inflation as money lost value in the real world. Same should be true for dust. nothing works with so many having so much money.

Needs to be inflation or a economic collapse needs to happen.

The overall concept still stands, now we are starting to argue about the details. So up the contract price to 32 Million, increase payout of destroyed equipment. A point can be found where it is cheap enough for most corps to work up an attack contract and the payout is high enough to reward a win on either side. It would be nice to see a dynamic that would lead to significant decisions about what equipment to field too.

I personally would like to see successful attacks being nearly zero gain isk wise. Defending would be where you would make your money. But holding territory without any activity would be minimal or no gain.

Guys, just to be clear again we are likely looking on only being able to get simple number changes to what we currently have. Right now the current potential numbers floating are as follows:

Plan One: Passive Reduction
*Greatly reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) and increase Biomass price: something like 40-60k clone sale and 160-180k biomass

Plan Two: Passive Elimination
*Reduce clone sale price (passive ISK) to effectively 0 and double biomass price to 200-210k

Paired with both these plans would be a clone pack size increase to 150 clones at a cost of 300k per clone to prevent self-attacks for locking or ISK farming by killing the clone pack.

*******

While I hate passive ISK, my concern is still that eliminating it may lead to negative effects on participation in PC.

The side benefit of turning off passive ISK all together is that it could allow a new region to be opened up without the concern of passive ISK bleeding into the Dust economy from the PC system on an even larger scale.

-stuff about lag/frame rate

I've heard lots of different views on the issue, but I would like to hear as many opinions as possible. If there was no passive ISK and you only got ISK from fighting would you want to hold land?

This would also be in light of increasing clone pack sizes back to their original 150 at the current 300k per clone cost. Fighting getting you double what you receive now but no passive ISK to prop up payroll, vehicle reimbursement, or the hiring of ringers. The only issue is you only collect the payment when you win your fights and if you can't win your fights you end up with nothing.