I do...

and I kill tanks with my dren swarms.

I also have a proto missile fit that I spent 20mil sp on that is invalidated by even the worst players using a militia railgun with damage mods.

Its perfectly justified. A hand held weapon should never match the DPS of a turret because the infantry man can hide from a tank; a tank cannot hide from a tank.

No you don't. No you really don't. Dren swarms = 880 damage per volley.

That is 704 per volley versus shields and 1056 per volley versus armor.

Guess how much armor a soma can heal between volleys, between reloads? You can't feasibly kill a sica with dren swarms, a soma that has 33% less repping power than a madrugar.

Oh you meant a sica? One hardner on a sica means that you do 422 per volley, a sica can passively tank this (since regen will kick in between reloads). Nope, not killing sicas either.

All of this is of course academic because swarms are still bugged and sometimes do no or close to no damage to unhardened targets that are moving.

Or do you mean you help kill (not really with dren swarms) tanks?

Dren swarms are incredibly underpowered. IT is actually quite staggering when you put the numbers on paper.

Oh and are you complaining about a militia tank killing your tank? Really? I don't remember seeing proto-suit wearers complain about getting killed by militia suits, but that happens all of the damn time. I have 32 mil SP all in dropsuits, and I still get killed by milita frames now and again.

I don't think he does it regularly Magnus but math doesnt directly translate into what contributes to your death in a vehicle...... he may simply be getting last hits on targets..... I'll be getting wrecked by a missile HAV sometimes and a single MLT forge will destroy me with last shot.....this is probably what he is claiming.

Or maybe you meant to say that a tank mounted weapon should never have the accuracy to hit an infantrymen because tank weapons are not balanced for anti-infantry roles.

I suspected that when I wrote the underlined bit as well.

The math bit, I think it would just illustrate an individuals contribution to the kill. Sure, there are plenty of times I escape a duel with low HP and die to an AR from 80meters out or whatever, but I think the math would show that the previous guy/guys did all of the work, and that AR user just got lucky.

Sorry if I was a jerk earlier in the thread btw, I just re-read what I wrote and I didn't realize I was talking to you, I just thought it was a continuation of one of the other guys here.

You telling me you can't kill a Soma?

*facepalms.......

[quote=Nothing Certain][quote=Harpyja]Also, need I remind you that proxies work very well? I'm surprised that proxies are rarely seen on the field.

That means you don't even need to spend all that SP on SLs and stuff. The only SP's you need to invest for AV go into proxies. All of the other SP you have go where ever you want into whichever role you want. Because with proxies, you sacrifice next to nothing (aside from investing the SP that could've gone somewhere else).

During one week of play, I got destroyed by proxies twice. The first time through 3975 shield and 1500 armor, the second time through 5300 shield and 1500 armor. The total amount of battles where I encountered proxies was probably no more than four. I'd say that that's a rather high success rate, wouldn't you agree?

You telling me you can't kill a Soma?

*facepalms.......

So you don't even try to take down the HAV in a meaningful way yet complain......

* facepalms

Well this is a very interesting discussion for me, since I use HAV and AV a good amount of the time.

I've used Swarms and AV Grenades since I started playing, and before 1.7 I had an alternate where I used a Blaster Gunnlogi. As of now I'm still using my CBR7 and EX-0, and I'm recently using a large Missile Gunnlogi all in one character.

As my Missile tank, I'm pretty sure 95% of my deaths were to the ones who fear effort and put damage mods on a Sica and call it a day. Barely anyone Forges or Swarms me anymore. It's just butthurt Rail tanks and Scouts trying to stick Remotes to me. That's it. Honestly, people should use actual AV, not these easy mode tactics. Even if you don't take out a tank, getting them to activate their modules is a win, since they might not have them when they need it later on.

I'd rather get killed by actual AV than cowards who spend 80k ISK to eliminate my 200k ISK tank with no personal skill or SP required. But that's another discussion, I suppose. The situation with AV vs. HAV might change if they fix up the MLT tank price and other things.

I am an AV user, always will be, and always will I fail many times even though I'm the one putting myself at risk of everything in the game.

To sum it up, tanks should be much more fragile for their low price. Or make them expensive again and keep them how they are. Either way, how things are right now is not okay.

In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here.

---

ISK Price


Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game.

Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK.


SP Price

Now let's address the SP side.

These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7.

You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster.



-HAND

Well if you think about it, grabbing a proto HMG heavy suit to deal with infantry hugging your quadruple damage modded sica helps as well.

With an assault rifle? No, I can't, but I can kill infantry, which is the pertinent point. I also can't kill a Soma with a starter fit swarm, not that that is relevant to the reply.

I think this also brings up the fact that there is just not enough variety for an AV fit nowadays..... we are missing a few heavy weapons and I'm sure some other AV weapons are (were?) in the works.... I think it will be a glorious day when we achieve a true sandbox level so when you see a tank and you're alone on foot you don't think "Lets get the forge" you think "what's the best way I can take out this tank under the circumstances"... at the moment, it's still too easy to counter a tank with another tank (and it's cheap too and doesn't require much skill)... the situation is improving, but it hasn't quite yet hit the sweet spot... I think when it does you will see the disappearance of jihad LAV's and "tank spam" in a general sense will cease and only be used for people who are a) trying tanks out or b) dedicated tanks who have invested the time and skill to dominate on the battlefield..

My missile tank finds it hard to fight back against infantry AV, so I'm forced to retreat. Isn't that good enough for you, for the missile tank at least?

No, not even a little bit. I did spend months of SP shoo you away. I don't care if you have a blaster, rail, missiles or an icecream machine fitted. If you drop a tank on my battle field, you are a target. And I really like ice cream.

On your own or with something else shooting it? I refuse to believe that you can kill a tank on your own with a dren swarm. And about the rail. Dont complain about it here. If tankers didnt want everything about tanking to be cheaper this whole mess with tank spam and super dmg mods wouldnt have happened. It needs fixing yes but for now you have to deal with it. We had to deal with super tanks for near 4 months.

I'm pretty sure that a 4 Damage Modifiers on any vehicle is not possible.

Though that is an Infantry skill, and does not relate to vehicle skills. Unless I get to include LAV Command in my skill list, that skill is irrelevant.

Exactly, I'm having trouble keeping up my ISK using Advanced AV. I get shot at by Blasters and all the infantry... It's probably the least rewarding role ISK wise. But when I make my AV fit cheaper, I can't get the job done. Av Grenades and Swarms used to be a much more viable fit...

Lis of things that happen most of the time:
1. The tank throws up a hardener and ignores me
2. The tank blasts me and moves on
3. They run away before I can finish them off. Who runs away in a tank? :/
4. Most common, I get shot up by infantry.

So unless I'm sitting on my Nanohive on a tower where I can repeatedly back up for cover, I hardly ever get the job done. I'm not expecting to solo a tank, I know how it is, but I don't even get close. Especially when every harmful thing in the game is after me and only my "Trusty Toxin" SMG can answer. I just try and try again until someone else happens to input some damage while I'm attacking a tank. Even then the tank will turn on their hardener and run to the redline to heal.