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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9272	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:18:00 - [1] - Quote Should a canny and careful AVer die 3-4 times? Probably not. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9277	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:47:00 - [2] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Atiim wrote: In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND I like how you tossed a bunch of unnecessary crap in there to artificially bloat the SP requirement Mmmm I should work out what skills I need to be an adaptable tankers like this...... lets start with every Turret Skill maxed, inclusive of small turrets, and all core skills inclusive of shield and armour even if I dont use any of those modules at all...... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9278	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:34:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Attorney General wrote: 51,015,760 with engineering and electronics maxed out. But that doesn't include the dropsuit needed to carry around proto uplinks, and a core focused rep tool along with a proto weapon and sidearm. You could just fit a mobile CRU, and Complex Armor Repairers negate the need for a Repair Tool, which even then you'd only need Level IV because the BDR-8 Axis Tool repairs vehicles just as well, with no downsides either. Also, you have a Starter Fit. 0 SP, and doesn't affect your ability to tank. So you can afford to pump up your example with unnecessary skills but when I point out that I can do it as well you simplify my build to the point of actual efficiency......? WTF man I thought we were being ridiculous up in here? "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9279	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do...but I'm not fool enough to try it solo. If I want an HAV dead it will die, our squad will co-ordinate a small AV team to hunt it down and destroy it. Why else would I play a team based game if I didn't want to work with a team.....and before you start accusing me of being a solo tanker I am not. I use on my fits and require 2 gunners to be fully effective against well fit solo battle tanks. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9279	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:27:00 - [5] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do...but I'm not fool enough to try it solo. If I want an HAV dead it will die, our squad will co-ordinate a small AV team to hunt it down and destroy it. Why else would I play a team based game if I didn't want to work with a team.....and before you start accusing me of being a solo tanker I am not. I use on my fits and require 2 gunners to be fully effective against well fit solo battle tanks. What about those that dont have a squad? They should not be allowed to kill vehicles? 1 person should be able to kill a tank. Im not suggesting a militia swarm should kill a well fit tank. But a proto swarm should be able to destroy a tank in 4-5 shots . Regardless of your modules you are still only using a standard tank. If proto tanks came out tomorrow they would not die with the way av is. A squad of av would struggle. You must know this. Frankly speaking then I don't feel like those without the desire to use team work should benefit from buffs to their equipment because they don't care to play with a team. When I get 3 people in my HAV should I get buffs to it? Nope I don't....1 enemy in an HAV can still kill us, 1 AVer can with effort still kill us. You also cannot equate the tiering of vehicles vs AV. You have 4 tiers, 5 on the forge, we vehicle users have 2. You must consider MLT as STD, and STD as ADV. Now if you are demanding buffs and nerfs based on tiering you neither deserve or should get one until all tiers of vehicles are released to be balanced around AV. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9280	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:39:00 - [6] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: True Adamance wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do...but I'm not fool enough to try it solo. If I want an HAV dead it will die, our squad will co-ordinate a small AV team to hunt it down and destroy it. Why else would I play a team based game if I didn't want to work with a team.....and before you start accusing me of being a solo tanker I am not. I use on my fits and require 2 gunners to be fully effective against well fit solo battle tanks. What about those that dont have a squad? They should not be allowed to kill vehicles? 1 person should be able to kill a tank. Im not suggesting a militia swarm should kill a well fit tank. But a proto swarm should be able to destroy a tank in 4-5 shots . Regardless of your modules you are still only using a standard tank. If proto tanks came out tomorrow they would not die with the way av is. A squad of av would struggle. You must know this. Frankly speaking then I don't feel like those without the desire to use team work should benefit from buffs to their equipment because they don't care to play with a team. When I get 3 people in my HAV should I get buffs to it? Nope I don't....1 enemy in an HAV can still kill us, 1 AVer can with effort still kill us. You also cannot equate the tiering of vehicles vs AV. You have 4 tiers, 5 on the forge, we vehicle users have 2. You must consider MLT as STD, and STD as ADV. Now if you are demanding buffs and nerfs based on tiering you neither deserve or should get one until all tiers of vehicles are released to be balanced around AV. Again, using your own words to show you there is a disparity. You had to add "with effort" on the AV side. Because it's not nearly as much effort to kill an HAV with another HAV. If there's not as much effort to kill in an HAV, why in god's name should AV have to put more of an effort, in a FAR more dangerous situation and it be fair? I am saying that yeah I can take down HAV...but taking down a tank should never be easy, otherwise it would be boring. Are yiy saying you want to be able to break the Vehicle/AV balance by destroying the most expensive, heavily armoured, and durable vehicle easily? See how easy it is to strawman people? Please refrain from attempting such in future. It contributes so little to the discussion, you assuming you know what I am attempting to explain. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9282	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:19:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: I am saying that yeah I can take down HAV...but taking down a tank should never be easy, otherwise it would be boring. Are yiy saying you want to be able to break the Vehicle/AV balance by destroying the most expensive, heavily armoured, and durable vehicle easily? See how easy it is to strawman people? Please refrain from attempting such in future. It contributes so little to the discussion, you assuming you know what I am attempting to explain. He's saying that the effort required to destroy an HAV should be equal to the effort required to pilot an HAV. So yeah, basically with extreme ease. Dude your assumptions that any one role in Dust requires any more "skill" than any other, in any FPS game ever made is one full of fallacies. You aim you gun, so do I. You claim positioning is important, I position myself as well. You fight tanks, I fight tanks, you are threatened by infantry, and so am I. By that logic is it fair to say you assume you are a better player than me because your arbitrarily place value on a role you personally prefer more, and that is in direct competition with mine? There is no value in discussing whether or not a role inherently makes you a better or worse player, its a weak argument, and ignorant and uninformed, and all together something I am not interested in. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9282	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:10:00 - [8] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I dont want tanks to die just by looking at them. I just think that if a tank can kill whatever it wants with relative ease, then av should be able to kill a tank solo. Not easily. just one person should have the ability to kill a tank if they have the sp in the right areas. They have to remove almost all form of anti infantry in order to kill a tank whereas a tanker loses very little anti infantry capability but can still destroy vehicles easily. I use missile tanks, it's very hard to kill infantry. To gain anti infantry abilities I fit rail guns to my tank as well and have gunners man them, what some call teamwork. I also cannot engage a shield tank without av or gunner support, so I cannot engage anything I want with relative ease. If a player can solo a tank with swarms then it looses its effect as a force multiplyer, and we got back to the days of tanks hiding in fear from one swarm launcher. This is what you are suggesting. I believe that two skilled av should bring down a skilled tank and that teams should bring vehicles to the battlefield not only to fight infantry, but to fight other vehicles as well. Otherwise there isn't much of a role for them. If you hit something it dies. You can still kill with relative ease. The way swarms are at the moment you would have to be a complete idiot to get killed by one person seeing as how the range is 175m. And dont bring force multipliers into it. 8 tankers call in tanks. It would take the entire team of competant av to kill them leaving no anti infantry capability. Tanks would get smashed if they were called in to counter them. It creates an imbalance. How can they hack points? "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9283	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:24:00 - [9] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: True Adamance wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I dont want tanks to die just by looking at them. I just think that if a tank can kill whatever it wants with relative ease, then av should be able to kill a tank solo. Not easily. just one person should have the ability to kill a tank if they have the sp in the right areas. They have to remove almost all form of anti infantry in order to kill a tank whereas a tanker loses very little anti infantry capability but can still destroy vehicles easily. I use missile tanks, it's very hard to kill infantry. To gain anti infantry abilities I fit rail guns to my tank as well and have gunners man them, what some call teamwork. I also cannot engage a shield tank without av or gunner support, so I cannot engage anything I want with relative ease. If a player can solo a tank with swarms then it looses its effect as a force multiplyer, and we got back to the days of tanks hiding in fear from one swarm launcher. This is what you are suggesting. I believe that two skilled av should bring down a skilled tank and that teams should bring vehicles to the battlefield not only to fight infantry, but to fight other vehicles as well. Otherwise there isn't much of a role for them. If you hit something it dies. You can still kill with relative ease. The way swarms are at the moment you would have to be a complete idiot to get killed by one person seeing as how the range is 175m. And dont bring force multipliers into it. 8 tankers call in tanks. It would take the entire team of competant av to kill them leaving no anti infantry capability. Tanks would get smashed if they were called in to counter them. It creates an imbalance. How can they hack points? They have 8 others doing it for them And..... where are your teams 8 tanks and infantry men to counter theirs? "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9286	Posted - 2014.04.07 03:35:00 - [10] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Are you guys smoking? You are all adamant that it should take more than one person to kill a tank. If your team had 8 tanks then you would say that it takes 2 people to kill each tank. Which would mean all of the infantry (assuming that the team doesnt have an equal number of tanks which is mote likely) would be occupied with tanks. Also, im pretty sure 8 tanks would rip through most infantry rendering hacking almost pointless. Just clone them. Then don't complain, do something about it. Call your own HAV, or ADS, or mob AV vehicles with concentrated fire. I personally love Tank Spam, more challenge for me, more enemies to kill, larger battles with 3 or 4 vehicles firing on 3-4 other tanks down the line..... those kinds of fights are exciting..... But if all your team is not willing to adapt to the change on the battlefield...... then you have no right to complain after the fact. Ever try coupling a Swarmer and a Tanker = Insta death for enemy vehicle... However I do understand the issues of the rep tanks with their recent emergence...this being a direct result of people thinking that a simple hot fix would sort out balance.... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9292	Posted - 2014.04.07 04:39:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Harpyja wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Are you guys smoking? You are all adamant that it should take more than one person to kill a tank. If your team had 8 tanks then you would say that it takes 2 people to kill each tank. Which would mean all of the infantry (assuming that the team doesnt have an equal number of tanks which is mote likely) would be occupied with tanks. Also, im pretty sure 8 tanks would rip through most infantry rendering hacking almost pointless. Just clone them. You're over-exaggerating the problem. If there's 8 tanks, you do not need 16 AV. Tanks and AV are not related in any way other than having a set number of AV to bring down one tank. Say it indeed takes two AV to destroy a tank. Now, let's say it's you and two more AV friends. You'll be able to pop any tank within seconds, and you work them down one at a time. You'd only need 16 AV if you wanted to pop all 8 tanks at once, which is just stupid. All you need is two friends to help you and concentrate fire and those tanks will go down like flies. Breach forge guns would work the best because you'll more than likely insta-kill any unhardened tank with the three of you, and two-shot any hardened tank. Do you know how great this would be if it were true? It might actually be true when using prototype AV, but it most certainly is not even close to true when it comes to standard swarms. For the math, check out my sig, I am not going to go through all of that typing again here. The biggest problem here is that tankers want to be hard to kill, but they do not want to give up the ability to kill infantry insanely fast. This of course is going to make a large portion of the playerbase really mad because 1) There is no use for the infantry slayer or heavy outside of buildings (5% of dust). The blaster tank will always be the better choice. 2) The got killed without the ability to fight back or flee. (part of the reason fo the QQ about cloaks) 3) 2/3 types of AV are completely useless at standard levels, AV grenades are useless, and remotes are almost a garunteed suicide mission. Mainly it is number two though. You get killed by something you could not out-run, you could damage, you could not evade, and that killed you in the blink of an eye. If you really can't see how that is a problem... well you just might be part of that problem. I never could argue with Math.... I would rather discuss how to balance vehicles vs AV over who is and is not a " crutch clinging scrub" as a few of you call it. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9306	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:14:00 - [12] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: No it doesn't kill the play style because that's the entire concept of this game. You will ALWAYS have a weakness that can absolutely dominate you no matter what. Rock should almost always beats scissors, paper should almost always beats rock. You should get the idea now. In the case of the scout VS heavy. The Heavy is the rock, and the scout is paper. The scout will win if he's competent because he has the advantage before skill is even involved. So damn straight that is balanced. Your changes wouldn't do a damn thing to close the huge gap. What needs to happen is this : HAV main turrets deal zero damage to infantry. If you want to also kill infantry, equip small turrets that need to be manned by other personnel. This creates a scenario that actually justifies the need for multiple AV to coordinate and take it out. The HAV with no added turrets still gets to enjoy those tank battles, solo or squads of terrible AV will still barely make you notice their existence (if they even bother to try and take you out now since you aren't ruining their life every second of battle), and you can still easily wipe the floor with infantry if you decide to choose that course of action. Yet this system actually makes you choose a role, instead of excelling at them all. I already do this.... you are talking to a tanker that has been doing this a long time.....not a 1.7 FoTM tanker...... I run fits for killing tanks, I have fits for killing infantry, I have fits to support assault on objectives..... AV is not barely noticeable..... it might be if I made use of a triple repping HAV...which cannot fit or fulfil my style of play. Regardless of how you nerf HAV I will always find a way to go 20+/0.... it doesn't matter that all AVers are willing to argue for nerfs to vehicles but give back no concessions..... there will always be those who make your infantry based lives a nightmare. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9306	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:37:00 - [13] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Void Echo wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Void Echo wrote: so your choosing to ignore the fact that if a vehicle pilot exists their vehicle, they lose all efficiency because they invested in vehicles, not infantry? And what does getting out of your vehicle have to do with your capabilities while inside one? because your talking about sacrifices, the sacrifice that vehicle pilots pay is their ability to do combat outside the vehicle. basically making them a vehicle, and removing the infantry aspect of their character. if you take a pure vehicle pilot and place him in a situation where has no vehicle and must face a squad of infantry, the pilot will die immediately. How much SP were necessary to get into that Soma again? I am pretty sure a starter fit has a weapon, a sidearm and a grenade. He is only helpless against a tank. You telling me you can't kill a Soma? facepalms....... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"* -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9307	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:56:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: You telling me you can't kill a Soma? facepalms....... MLT Swarm Launcher (Starter Fit) vs. MLT HAV (Soma). I know where my money is You really have to consider Soma as STD HAV with all the benefits of MLT gear........terrible design of course....but hell what do you expect me to do about it? I hate MLT tanks as well. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"* -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9309	Posted - 2014.04.07 22:24:00 - [15] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Atiim wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: My AV suit costs 50k, I have RE's and 3 nanohives, and I drive myself around in a LAV that costs 20k (so entire fit is 70k). You're doing it wrong. I had a tank that only cost 500k back in 1.6. The entire tanking community was doing it wrong. You aren't a tanker. You aren't good at AV. You aren't good at shooting. There isn't any good "infantry" AV. Only what people make work under specific conditions. And yet when they do...... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9314	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:12:00 - [16] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do... and I kill tanks with my dren swarms. I also have a proto missile fit that I spent 20mil sp on that is invalidated by even the worst players using a militia railgun with damage mods. On your own or with something else shooting it? I refuse to believe that you can kill a tank on your own with a dren swarm. And about the rail. Dont complain about it here. If tankers didnt want everything about tanking to be cheaper this whole mess with tank spam and super dmg mods wouldnt have happened. It needs fixing yes but for now you have to deal with it. We had to deal with super tanks for near 4 months. Yeah even I'm disinclined to believe that..... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9315	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:32:00 - [17] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do... and I kill tanks with my dren swarms. I also have a proto missile fit that I spent 20mil sp on that is invalidated by even the worst players using a militia railgun with damage mods. No you don't. No you really don't. Dren swarms = 880 damage per volley. That is 704 per volley versus shields and 1056 per volley versus armor. Guess how much armor a soma can heal between volleys, between reloads? You can't feasibly kill a sica with dren swarms, a soma that has 33% less repping power than a madrugar. Oh you meant a sica? One hardner on a sica means that you do 422 per volley, a sica can passively tank this (since regen will kick in between reloads). Nope, not killing sicas either. All of this is of course academic because swarms are still bugged and sometimes do no or close to no damage to unhardened targets that are moving. Or do you mean you help kill (not really with dren swarms) tanks? Dren swarms are incredibly underpowered. IT is actually quite staggering when you put the numbers on paper. Oh and are you complaining about a militia tank killing your tank? Really? I don't remember seeing proto-suit wearers complain about getting killed by militia suits, but that happens all of the damn time. I have 32 mil SP all in dropsuits, and I still get killed by milita frames now and again. I don't think he does it regularly Magnus but math doesnt directly translate into what contributes to your death in a vehicle...... he may simply be getting last hits on targets..... I'll be getting wrecked by a missile HAV sometimes and a single MLT forge will destroy me with last shot.....this is probably what he is claiming. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9319	Posted - 2014.04.08 03:43:00 - [18] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: True Adamance wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: I'd love to see these tankers try and use av as an infantryman. You guys seriously dont know how hard it is to kill a tank with little to no help. Try use a standard fit with standard swarms and tell me that the skills he has listed dont have any use. Smg skill, hell any sidearm you like is necessary when your main weapon only hurts vehicles. The fit he has is a good av fit. You would not be able to make an adv fit as good as this. I do... and I kill tanks with my dren swarms. I also have a proto missile fit that I spent 20mil sp on that is invalidated by even the worst players using a militia railgun with damage mods. No you don't. No you really don't. Dren swarms = 880 damage per volley. That is 704 per volley versus shields and 1056 per volley versus armor. Guess how much armor a soma can heal between volleys, between reloads? You can't feasibly kill a sica with dren swarms, a soma that has 33% less repping power than a madrugar. Oh you meant a sica? One hardner on a sica means that you do 422 per volley, a sica can passively tank this (since regen will kick in between reloads). Nope, not killing sicas either. All of this is of course academic because swarms are still bugged and sometimes do no or close to no damage to unhardened targets that are moving. Or do you mean you help kill (not really with dren swarms) tanks? Dren swarms are incredibly underpowered. It is actually quite staggering when you put the numbers on paper. Oh and are you complaining about a militia tank killing your tank? Really? I don't remember seeing proto-suit wearers complain about getting killed by militia suits, but that happens all of the damn time. I have 32 mil SP all in dropsuits, and I still get killed by milita frames now and again. I don't think he does it regularly Magnus but math doesnt directly translate into what contributes to your death in a vehicle...... he may simply be getting last hits on targets..... I'll be getting wrecked by a missile HAV sometimes and a single MLT forge will destroy me with last shot.....this is probably what he is claiming. I suspected that when I wrote the underlined bit as well. The math bit, I think it would just illustrate an individuals contribution to the kill. Sure, there are plenty of times I escape a duel with low HP and die to an AR from 80meters out or whatever, but I think the math would show that the previous guy/guys did all of the work, and that AR user just got lucky. Sorry if I was a jerk earlier in the thread btw, I just re-read what I wrote and I didn't realize I was talking to you, I just thought it was a continuation of one of the other guys here. Nah I can't argue with math.... primarily because I dont understand it..... "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9325	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:08:00 - [19] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: You telling me you can't kill a Soma? facepalms....... With an assault rifle? No, I can't, but I can kill infantry, which is the pertinent point. I also can't kill a Soma with a starter fit swarm, not that that is relevant to the reply.[/quote] So you don't even try to take down the HAV in a meaningful way yet complain...... facepalms "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two

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