I dont want tanks to die just by looking at them. I just think that if a tank can kill whatever it wants with relative ease, then av should be able to kill a tank solo. Not easily. just one person should have the ability to kill a tank if they have the sp in the right areas. They have to remove almost all form of anti infantry in order to kill a tank whereas a tanker loses very little anti infantry capability but can still destroy vehicles easily.

with that said, I must remind you that I retired from tanking when 1.7 hit.

what im saying is that when comparing HAVs to dropsuits, logically the HAV will have far superior killing and defensive power. if you make HAVs as strong and weak as dropsuits you effectively eliminate the want to use HAVs.

since 1.7 iv been a gallente assault and when I return il have enough sp to expand over multiple fields of play styles.

when im talking about balance, im not going to make ideas that suit infantry and just leave vehicles in the dark like everyone seems to do here. I talk about bringing in balance that would make both parties happy, thus keeping both sides from dying off whereas suggestions like yours will only benefit the infantry side and cause vehicles to go extinct, making you look bias towards vehicle pilots.

I use missile tanks, it's very hard to kill infantry. To gain anti infantry abilities I fit rail guns to my tank as well and have gunners man them, what some call teamwork. I also cannot engage a shield tank without av or gunner support, so I cannot engage anything I want with relative ease. If a player can solo a tank with swarms then it looses its effect as a force multiplyer, and we got back to the days of tanks hiding in fear from one swarm launcher. This is what you are suggesting. I believe that two skilled av should bring down a skilled tank and that teams should bring vehicles to the battlefield not only to fight infantry, but to fight other vehicles as well. Otherwise there isn't much of a role for them.

so your choosing to ignore the fact that if a vehicle pilot exists their vehicle, they lose all efficiency because they invested in vehicles, not infantry?

If you hit something it dies. You can still kill with relative ease. The way swarms are at the moment you would have to be a complete idiot to get killed by one person seeing as how the range is 175m. And dont bring force multipliers into it. 8 tankers call in tanks. It would take the entire team of competant av to kill them leaving no anti infantry capability. Tanks would get smashed if they were called in to counter them. It creates an imbalance.

I use missile tanks, it's very hard to kill infantry. To gain anti infantry abilities I fit rail guns to my tank as well and have gunners man them, what some call teamwork. I also cannot engage a shield tank without av or gunner support, so I cannot engage anything I want with relative ease. If a player can solo a tank with swarms then it looses its effect as a force multiplyer, and we got back to the days of tanks hiding in fear from one swarm launcher. This is what you are suggesting. I believe that two skilled av should bring down a skilled tank and that teams should bring vehicles to the battlefield not only to fight infantry, but to fight other vehicles as well. Otherwise there isn't much of a role for them.

How can they hack points?

They have 8 others doing it for them

They have 8 others doing it for them

You could just fit a mobile CRU, and Complex Armor Repairers negate the need for a Repair Tool, which even then you'd only need Level IV because the BDR-8 Axis Tool repairs vehicles just as well, with no downsides either.

Also, you have a Starter Fit. 0 SP, and doesn't affect your ability to tank.

Are you guys smoking? You are all adamant that it should take more than one person to kill a tank. If your team had 8 tanks then you would say that it takes 2 people to kill each tank. Which would mean all of the infantry (assuming that the team doesnt have an equal number of tanks which is mote likely) would be occupied with tanks. Also, im pretty sure 8 tanks would rip through most infantry rendering hacking almost pointless. Just clone them.

Are you guys smoking? You are all adamant that it should take more than one person to kill a tank. If your team had 8 tanks then you would say that it takes 2 people to kill each tank. Which would mean all of the infantry (assuming that the team doesnt have an equal number of tanks which is mote likely) would be occupied with tanks. Also, im pretty sure 8 tanks would rip through most infantry rendering hacking almost pointless. Just clone them.

You're over-exaggerating the problem. If there's 8 tanks, you do not need 16 AV. Tanks and AV are not related in any way other than having a set number of AV to bring down one tank. Say it indeed takes two AV to destroy a tank. Now, let's say it's you and two more AV friends. You'll be able to pop any tank within seconds, and you work them down one at a time.

You'd only need 16 AV if you wanted to pop all 8 tanks at once, which is just stupid. All you need is two friends to help you and concentrate fire and those tanks will go down like flies. Breach forge guns would work the best because you'll more than likely insta-kill any unhardened tank with the three of you, and two-shot any hardened tank.

Do you know how great this would be if it were true?

It might actually be true when using prototype AV, but it most certainly is not even close to true when it comes to standard swarms. For the math, check out my sig, I am not going to go through all of that typing again here.

The biggest problem here is that tankers want to be hard to kill, but they do not want to give up the ability to kill infantry insanely fast. This of course is going to make a large portion of the playerbase really mad because

1) There is no use for the infantry slayer or heavy outside of buildings (5% of dust). The blaster tank will always be the better choice.

2) The got killed without the ability to fight back or flee. (part of the reason fo the QQ about cloaks)

3) 2/3 types of AV are completely useless at standard levels, AV grenades are useless, and remotes are almost a garunteed suicide mission.

Mainly it is number two though. You get killed by something you could not out-run, you could damage, you could not evade, and that killed you in the blink of an eye.

If you really can't see how that is a problem... well you just might be part of that problem.

I never could argue with Math.... I would rather discuss how to balance vehicles vs AV over who is and is not a " crutch clinging scrub" as a few of you call it.

If you hit something it dies. You can still kill with relative ease. The way swarms are at the moment you would have to be a complete idiot to get killed by one person seeing as how the range is 175m. And dont bring force multipliers into it. 8 tankers call in tanks. It would take the entire team of competant av to kill them leaving no anti infantry capability. Tanks would get smashed if they were called in to counter them. It creates an imbalance.

Are you guys smoking? You are all adamant that it should take more than one person to kill a tank. If your team had 8 tanks then you would say that it takes 2 people to kill each tank. Which would mean all of the infantry (assuming that the team doesnt have an equal number of tanks which is mote likely) would be occupied with tanks. Also, im pretty sure 8 tanks would rip through most infantry rendering hacking almost pointless. Just clone them.

Exactly, I'm having trouble keeping up my ISK using Advanced AV. I get shot at by Blasters and all the infantry... It's probably the least rewarding role ISK wise. But when I make my AV fit cheaper, I can't get the job done. Av Grenades and Swarms used to be a much more viable fit...

Lis of things that happen most of the time:
1. The tank throws up a hardener and ignores me
2. The tank blasts me and moves on
3. They run away before I can finish them off. Who runs away in a tank? :/
4. Most common, I get shot up by infantry.

So unless I'm sitting on my Nanohive on a tower where I can repeatedly back up for cover, I hardly ever get the job done. I'm not expecting to solo a tank, I know how it is, but I don't even get close. Especially when every harmful thing in the game is after me and only my "Trusty Toxin" SMG can answer. I just try and try again until someone else happens to input some damage while I'm attacking a tank. Even then the tank will turn on their hardener and run to the redline to heal.

i use c-1 scout, cloak, and f/45s.

Wait swarms are good again? I might have to re-skill into those (haven't used them since chromosome)

My forge fit costs about 50k, using advanced forge, advanced min sentinel with sprint mods

My forge fitting costs 4M, and is about 100k. I think I posted it in the forums once.

Wrecks all the tanks (when the damn Ishy is working)

Jihad Jeep FTW. 8,000 ISK