DUST Search - The Cost Of AV

Quote:

Profile Dampening - You need profile dampening to get under 36db. Otherwise you won't be able to sneak up on any HAV that's running an Active Scanner.

Kinetic Catalyzation - Have you ever tried to strafe an 80GJ Ion Cannon? Have you ever tried to run around a corner to prevent getting rick rolled by one? That speed is important.

Minmatar Assault Dropsuits - That 5% reduction to Light Weapon CPU/PG cost per level is why you need it. A 25% reduction to CPU/PG cost can (and will) become your best friend.

Also, the M/1 Series would allow you to get the work done. If you like running around with Base HP, less offensive power than a Starter Fit, and No Assault Swarm Launcher.

Swarm Launcher Proficiency - Every % counts. What if there was a skill that increased Shield Resistance by 3% per level? Would you only train it to level IV, or would you max it out?

Swarm Launcher Ammo Count - Do I really need to explain this? Without this skill, you only have 2 clips (which isn't much for a Swarm Launcher) before you have to retreat to cover for ammo. Having this is important so that you aren't forced to be tied down to a Nanohive, and the skill only gives you 1 Swarm per level so Level V is key.

Sub-Machine Gun Operation - Right. So your using a STD SMG which means that unless your in a heavy suit, my ~~Combat~~ hell, any of my rifles, would have killed you about 4 times over before you could kill me once.

Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency - It's the only way to get my hands on that Ishukone ASMG.


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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6431	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:43:00 - [1] - Quote In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6431	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:48:00 - [2] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Yeah if your a dropship pilot who doesn't know can't fit enough tank to survive a railgun hit and doesn't know what an Afterburner is. Or a tanker who couldn't be bothered with things such as situational awareness, and is too lazy to constantly check the map for enemy vehicles. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6432	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:26:00 - [3] - Quote @Charlotte O'Dell What Spotlight? And I've already stated the point of this thread in the first sentence of the OP. It's for people who are wondering what the cost of a maxed out AV fitting with maxed out skills would be. Please obtain basic reading comprehension skills before insulting me. Thanks. @Lorhak Gannarsein Yes, and I have a vehicle build that costs 2,269,740 SP. With it, I can wreck both Infantry and Tankers all day, every day. Does this mean that being a tanker only requires 2.2m SP? @Henchmen21 I do. But a better question would be "who uses prototype anything on a vehicle?" @The Attorney General I die 3-4 times fighting a vehicle because of infantry running around with Rifles, Cloaked Scouts, Snipers, and just about anything else that's AP in this game. Unlike Forge Gunners, I don't get my results by camping on a tower. What do I do? The same thing every person tanking shields would do. Duck for cover and wait for their shields to regen. You'd probably die anyways if someone broke into your armor with only 135HP. Why Minmatar Assault? Because of the superior Speed and Strafing abilities, as well as the larger SMG clip. Plus, I could use the Minmatar Assault for more than just AV, while the Amarr Logi would only be good for Drop Uplinks. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6432	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:29:00 - [4] - Quote @Harpyja I don't think you should be talking about relying on gear to win. After all, you were one of the many tankers crying over how someone with a MLT Railgun can destroy you, and how people with low tier gear [MLT] should not be able to threaten your tank. Also, you hide in an HAV as your main profession. Anything involving skill does not concern you, nor is it possible for you to call someone out on a lack of such without it becoming hypocrisy. This is going to be a long one, so please bear with me. Thanks. Quote: Profile Dampening - You need profile dampening to get under 36db. Otherwise you won't be able to sneak up on any HAV that's running an Active Scanner. Kinetic Catalyzation - Have you ever tried to strafe an 80GJ Ion Cannon? Have you ever tried to run around a corner to prevent getting rick rolled by one? That speed is important. Minmatar Assault Dropsuits - That 5% reduction to Light Weapon CPU/PG cost per level is why you need it. A 25% reduction to CPU/PG cost can (and will) become your best friend. Also, the M/1 Series would allow you to get the work done. If you like running around with Base HP, less offensive power than a Starter Fit, and No Assault Swarm Launcher. Swarm Launcher Proficiency - Every % counts. What if there was a skill that increased Shield Resistance by 3% per level? Would you only train it to level IV, or would you max it out? Swarm Launcher Ammo Count - Do I really need to explain this? Without this skill, you only have 2 clips (which isn't much for a Swarm Launcher) before you have to retreat to cover for ammo. Having this is important so that you aren't forced to be tied down to a Nanohive, and the skill only gives you 1 Swarm per level so Level V is key. Sub-Machine Gun Operation - Right. So your using a STD SMG which means that unless your in a heavy suit, my ~~Combat~~ hell, any of my rifles, would have killed you about 4 times over before you could kill me once. Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency - It's the only way to get my hands on that Ishukone ASMG. The price of the ADV version of my AV suit is 88,320 ISK. If you wish to pass your critique on it, then see this fitting here. If you wish to modify the SP total to account for what you claim to be simple neccisties, you may do that as well. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6433	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:42:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: My AV suit costs 50k, I have RE's and 3 nanohives, and I drive myself around in a LAV that costs 20k (so entire fit is 70k). You're doing it wrong. I had a tank that only cost 500k back in 1.6. The entire tanking community was doing it wrong. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6436	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:28:00 - [6] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: I like how you tossed a bunch of unnecessary crap in there to artificially bloat the SP requirement I also like how you presented a reason as to why any of that stuff is unnecessary. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6436	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:31:00 - [7] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: 51,015,760 with engineering and electronics maxed out. But that doesn't include the dropsuit needed to carry around proto uplinks, and a core focused rep tool along with a proto weapon and sidearm. You could just fit a mobile CRU, and Complex Armor Repairers negate the need for a Repair Tool, which even then you'd only need Level IV because the BDR-8 Axis Tool repairs vehicles just as well, with no downsides either. Also, you have a Starter Fit. 0 SP, and doesn't affect your ability to tank. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6436	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:38:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: So you can afford to pump up your example with unnecessary skills but when I point out that I can do it as well you simplify my build to the point of actual efficiency......? WTF man I thought we were being ridiculous up in here? Well considering how everything I listed actually makes you better at AV, I don't really see how it's unnecessary. Attorney on the other hand, is using things that don't actually affect your ability to use your HAV effectively. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6437	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:57:00 - [9] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Technically (for example) an SMG won't help you be a great AVer, so I think that's the point he's trying to make. Well they do help you fend off against hostile infantry, which does make the job easier. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6437	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:59:00 - [10] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Yea um no, thise arent av, maybe exept damage mods but everything else is for your general drop suits so it doesn't count With that logic just about every Module & Core Skill wouldn't count when tallying up the cost of maxing out a vehicle, as they can be used for your general vehicle. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6438	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:11:00 - [11] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I do...but I'm not fool enough to try it solo. If I want an HAV dead it will die, our squad will co-ordinate a small AV team to hunt it down and destroy it. Why else would I play a team based game if I didn't want to work with a team.....and before you start accusing me of being a solo tanker I am not. I use on my fits and require 2 gunners to be fully effective against well fit solo battle tanks. I don't know. Maybe because you don't always have the time nor will to squad up everytime you play DUST? Also, you may not be a solo tanker, but what about the tanker your trying to kill The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6438	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:23:00 - [12] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Except vehicle skills are only for 1 thing, vehicles, but shield mods aren't av restricted Only 1 Thing? Really? Baloch Onikuma Methana Saga Viper Gorgon Grimsnes Myron Incubus Python Madrugar Gunnlogi That seems to be more than 1 thing to me. Also, where do you see Shield Modules included in that list? The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6438	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:25:00 - [13] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Hmm interesting, although you could debate the dropsuit command and such because that also applies to other suits so a ground pounder would probably already have a few of these. That aside when I get home I'll pot up how much sp I have invested into my dropship. But then you'd also have to exclude Vehicle Command, as it applies to other vehicles as well. Also, if you've memorized what skills you have, you can use the SP chart on the right to pot it up right now. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6438	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:26:00 - [14] - Quote Void Echo wrote: wow.... due to the replies im reading, id say Atiim has finally overstayed his welcome on the vehicle/av balance situation, so far the community feels that tanks and av are one step away from full balance. Sigh This thread is not about balance... Not even in the slightest. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6439	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:40:00 - [15] - Quote Void Echo wrote: because of the fact that adv and proto tank hulls haven't existed in dust since the uprising build came along, standard tanks have had to become the new proto tanks, STD tanks are the highest level of vehicles you can get for ground deployment, if you don't like that a std tank is more powerful than a std dropsuit you have balance issues. also, then you should advocate of adv and proto tank hulls being put back into the game so the std tanks you hate so much will go down almost as easy as you want them to without causing the vehicle community to slip into near extinction again. If we introduce ADV and PRO vehicles, then we'd either have to make both ADV/PRO AV either stupidly overpowered; which would make running anything other than PRO pointless and cause the V/AV roles to stagnate, as they would cost too much SP to actually be worth a d@mn. Or we'd have to make the difference minimal at best, which would negate the purpose of having tiers in the first place The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6439	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:42:00 - [16] - Quote Void Echo wrote: I fail to see that, look at the posts by true and echo. Well this thread derailed quickly. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6439	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:45:00 - [17] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I am saying that yeah I can take down HAV...but taking down a tank should never be easy, otherwise it would be boring. Are yiy saying you want to be able to break the Vehicle/AV balance by destroying the most expensive, heavily armoured, and durable vehicle easily? See how easy it is to strawman people? Please refrain from attempting such in future. It contributes so little to the discussion, you assuming you know what I am attempting to explain. He's saying that the effort required to destroy an HAV should be equal to the effort required to pilot an HAV. So yeah, basically with extreme ease. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6447	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:10:00 - [18] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: So now you are going to tell me what I need to run on my tank fits? Still, my 51,000,000 beats your SP amount by a huge margin, so your argument is void. Also, my good tanks are more expensive than your good AV fits, so there is that. Indeed I am. Also, the only way to reach that 51m SP ceiling would be to include every Small and Large Turret, and every passive skill they have. So by that logic, I would be able to include what; every AV weapon in the game, and all of the trees under it? It is also impossible to reach that 51m SP ceiling without skilling things to Level V that yield no bonus whatsoever, and aren't a prerequisite to anything (i.e, HAV Command V). The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6447	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:19:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dude your assumptions that any one role in Dust requires any more "skill" than any other, in any FPS game ever made is one full of fallacies. How so? Would you say that the role of a Plasma Cannon user is as easy as the role of an Assault suit user? I didn't state that AV requires more skill than piloting an HAV (whether or not I believe that to be the case is another story). However, I did state that he is saying that the effort to destroy an HAV should be proportinate to the effort required to pilot one. Would you say that using an HAV with an 80GJ Blaster is difficult? True Adamance wrote: You aim you gun, so do I. You claim positioning is important, I position myself as well. You fight tanks, I fight tanks, you are threatened by infantry, and so am I. To an extent* You are only threatened by 4 (arguably 2-3) Infantry weapons in the game. And of those weapons, they can only threaten you if you allow yourself to be threatened. True Adamance wrote: By that logic is it fair to say you assume you are a better player than me because your arbitrarily place value on a role you personally prefer more, and that is in direct competition with mine? Since when do I place more value on AV than I do vehicles? True Adamance wrote: There is no value in discussing whether or not a role inherently makes you a better or worse player, its a weak argument, and ignorant and uninformed, and all together something I am not interested in. Please, point to where I was discussing this. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6452	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:39:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: You telling me you can't kill a Soma? *facepalms....... MLT Swarm Launcher (Starter Fit) vs. MLT HAV (Soma). I know where my money is Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6452	Posted - 2014.04.07 21:49:00 - [21] - Quote Unfortunately, I haven't the time to sit through and make a detailed argument atm, but I will say one thing Haryja. Your signature. Have you ever though about using a line space? I'm pretty sure me not wanting to limit tanks is not part of the Amarrian Bible. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6458	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:13:00 - [22] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Atiim wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Technically (for example) an SMG won't help you be a great AVer, so I think that's the point he's trying to make. Well they do help you fend off against hostile infantry, which does make the job easier. Well if you think about it, grabbing a proto HMG heavy suit to deal with infantry hugging your quadruple damage modded sica helps as well. I'm pretty sure that a 4 Damage Modifiers on any vehicle is not possible. Though that is an Infantry skill, and does not relate to vehicle skills. Unless I get to include LAV Command in my skill list, that skill is irrelevant. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6464	Posted - 2014.04.08 20:56:00 - [23] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Harpyja wrote: My missile tank finds it hard to fight back against infantry AV, so I'm forced to retreat. Isn't that good enough for you, for the missile tank at least? No, not even a little bit. I did spend months of SP shoo you away. I don't care if you have a blaster, rail, missiles or an icecream machine fitted. If you drop a tank on my battle field, you are a target. And I really like ice cream. This guy gets it. Ratamaq Doc: The Best Swarmer Who Ever Lived. [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND