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The Cost Of AV

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6431	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:43:00 - [1] - Quote In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Patrick57 6729	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:45:00 - [2] - Quote Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. My personal best ADS match
Roofer Madness Algintal Core Gallente Federation 933	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:47:00 - [3] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Jihad Jeep FTW. 8,000 ISK I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The rest I wasted.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6431	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:48:00 - [4] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Yeah if your a dropship pilot who doesn't know can't fit enough tank to survive a railgun hit and doesn't know what an Afterburner is. Or a tanker who couldn't be bothered with things such as situational awareness, and is too lazy to constantly check the map for enemy vehicles. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2622	Posted - 2014.04.06 15:59:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Yeah if your a dropship pilot who can't fit enough tank to survive a railgun hit and doesn't know what an Afterburner is. Or a tanker who couldn't be bothered with things such as situational awareness, and is too lazy to constantly check the map for enemy vehicles. My forge fitting costs 4M, and is about 100k. I think I posted it in the forums once. Wrecks all the tanks (when the damn Ishy is working) ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
TERMINALANCE Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:05:00 - [6] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Yeah if your a dropship pilot who can't fit enough tank to survive a railgun hit and doesn't know what an Afterburner is. Or a tanker who couldn't be bothered with things such as situational awareness, and is too lazy to constantly check the map for enemy vehicles. My forge fitting costs 4M, and is about 100k. I think I posted it in the forums once. Wrecks all the tanks (when the damn Ishy is working) I think you would find that fit significantly lacking for top tier play. its lack of ability to take any serious hits and deal out the proper spike dmg necessary to make a substantial threat deterrence in a reasonable amount of time means your staying power is extremely limited. and for top tier play staying power and effectiveness over time are important considerations. Sure its a good pub stomper for the walk though skirmish, but when games are on the line and you have to win it really wont hold up.
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2293	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:06:00 - [7] - Quote what's your point? Have you lost your spotlight now that HAVs are very nearly balanced? Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 872	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:10:00 - [8] - Quote Who uses full proto gear to take out tanks? 1.8 better then 1.7 but not by much. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2295	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:20:00 - [9] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Who uses full proto gear to take out tanks? i use c-1 scout, cloak, and f/45s. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
The Attorney General 2529	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:22:00 - [10] - Quote First we should address why you are dying three or four times attacking a tank in a proto suit. If you fail 75% of the time, then you are horrible at AV. Second, your fit is meh at best. No armor repair? What happens when someone glances a shot into your armor? You just hope it doesn't happen again? Why even run a min assault? You could put three damage mods on an amarr logi and carry ammo, RE's and proxies. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.

Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 872	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:24:00 - [11] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Henchmen21 wrote: Who uses full proto gear to take out tanks? i use c-1 scout, cloak, and f/45s. Don't even need the f/45's basic remotes will do. I always soften them up with basic packed nades for good measure anyway. F/45's would be worth it if you got four upon spawning. 1.8 better then 1.7 but not by much. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1524	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:25:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND There's so much bullshit here tha'ts unnecessary. Proto SMG, you call that a necessity? My standard SMG is just fine with no proficiency. Do you need a proto dropsuit too? You know what I'm thinking? Attim's a scrub and relies on proto and gear to win, because he's got no skill. But let's move to the skills. I already covered the SMG and proficiency as not being necessities; they are just luxuries. Let me just bold the some of the other luxuries you got here... Now, what's the final cost, both ISK and SP, when you get rid of the proto SMG and the proto dropsuit? Now get rid of those bolded skills, or drop them down to level 4. If you seriously need 3% more damage to win, then you have no skill. Level 5s at that point are just luxuries. Git gud, scrub. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2623	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:26:00 - [13] - Quote TERMINALANCE wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Atiim wrote: Patrick57 wrote: Good AV only costs 0 SP and 70k ISK. Yeah if your a dropship pilot who can't fit enough tank to survive a railgun hit and doesn't know what an Afterburner is. Or a tanker who couldn't be bothered with things such as situational awareness, and is too lazy to constantly check the map for enemy vehicles. My forge fitting costs 4M, and is about 100k. I think I posted it in the forums once. Wrecks all the tanks (when the damn Ishy is working) I think you would find that fit significantly lacking for top tier play. its lack of ability to take any serious hits and deal out the proper spike dmg necessary to make a substantial threat deterrence in a reasonable amount of time means your staying power is extremely limited. and for top tier play staying power and effectiveness over time are important considerations. Sure its a good pub stomper for the walk though skirmish, but when games are on the line and you have to win it really wont hold up. Ishukone Assault, prof 3, double damage mods. I don't think your spike gets much bigger. The only difference between my fitting and one costing an extra 2M SP is you've got a little more armour. (This was a 1.7 and prior fitting, incidentally) ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Sergeant Sazu SINISTER DEATH SQUAD 33	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:33:00 - [14] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Who uses full proto gear to take out tanks? Exactly, I'm having trouble keeping up my ISK using Advanced AV. I get shot at by Blasters and all the infantry... It's probably the least rewarding role ISK wise. But when I make my AV fit cheaper, I can't get the job done. Av Grenades and Swarms used to be a much more viable fit... Lis of things that happen most of the time: 1. The tank throws up a hardener and ignores me 2. The tank blasts me and moves on 3. They run away before I can finish them off. Who runs away in a tank? :/ 4. Most common, I get shot up by infantry. So unless I'm sitting on my Nanohive on a tower where I can repeatedly back up for cover, I hardly ever get the job done. I'm not expecting to solo a tank, I know how it is, but I don't even get close. Especially when every harmful thing in the game is after me and only my "Trusty Toxin" SMG can answer. I just try and try again until someone else happens to input some damage while I'm attacking a tank. Even then the tank will turn on their hardener and run to the redline to heal. Both my shield and armor recover 20HP/s. Your argument is invalid.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 114	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:35:00 - [15] - Quote Atiim wrote: In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND Put a Flaylock on that fitting and then it would be even better AV.. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS--NUFF SED YOU SHALL NOT CATCH ME FOR I AM THE GINGERBREAD FATMAN -Romulus H3X
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 752	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:05:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: In case somebody wanted to know the cost of being a maxed out AVer (SP & ISK Wise), I figured I'd put this here. ISK Price Quote: Assault mk.0 1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher 1x Ishukone Assault Sub-Machine Gun 1x Lai Dai Packed AV Grenade 3x Complex Damage Modifiers 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Complex CPU Upgrade 1x Complex PG Upgrade Here, we have a fully decked, top-of-the-line AV fitting. It's got all of the tools an AVer needs to get the job done, and it's 3rd best AV fitting in the game. Based on my experience, an AVer using this suit can expect to die about 3-4 times on average. So now what seems like a measly 227,490 ISK is actually a cost ranging 682,470 ISK - 909,960 ISK. SP Price Now let's address the SP side. These are all of the skills needed to be a beastly AVer with the Swarm Launcher. By having these skills, you are self-sufficient and do not need to rely on constant support from a squad or need to be near an ammo source 24/7. You can even Strafe an 80GJ Blaster. Quote: Dropsuit Command II Minmatar Medium Dropsuits III Minmatar Assault Dropsuits V Dropsuit Upgrades II Dropsuit Core Upgrades II Dropsuit Biotic Upgrades V Kinetic Catalyzation III Electronics V Engineering V Profile Dampening V Nanocircuitry V Weaponry III Explosives III Grenadier V Demolitions V Light Weapon Operation IV Sidearm Operation II Swarm Launcher Operation V Swarm Launcher Proficiency V Swarm Launcher Ammo Count V Sub-Machine Gun Operation V Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency I Total Cost: 15,222,620 SP -HAND Why do you need a proto suit to AV? It's called an LAV, if you are really hard up for protection. Forged me down quite a few tanks yesterday, with an advanced suit, advanced damage mods, pro forge gun. (caldari suit). Surely you could make that cheaper while maintaining an effectiveness against tanks. Anyways, I have a LAV that has room for just one rider. My Forge, and your swarms, and tanks die by the hundreds. Unless it's a triple hardened gunnlogi. In that case we say **** that guy and pull out sica's. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1165	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:09:00 - [17] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: what's your point? Have you lost your spotlight now that HAVs are very nearly balanced? there not thoughGÇª. Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 752	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:13:00 - [18] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: what's your point? Have you lost your spotlight now that HAVs are very nearly balanced? False, they are not NEARLY balanced. They are not even close fella. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:22:00 - [19] - Quote I can suppress and sometimes take out (if they hang around like morons) proto fit tanks with my dren swarms. In fact, I find it is the most effective counter to the armour tanked sica/gunnloggi BS, as infantry AV can be concealed easier than a massive tank (also his railgod gun can't hit you effectively if you know how to strafe). Blaster tanks, I engage from dynamic directions from height to confuse them (cover is your friend). No compromises, since I use a commando. If they send infantry after me, I mow them down with my rail rifle and continue to gain points of of damaging tanks and sending them with their tails between their legs. The fit is only 10k isk. My double damage modded sica of vengeance costs me 79k isk and can easily be lost, if I don't get the jump on the enemy. TL;DR, standard swarms (and any light AV weapon for that matter) are OP (on the right commando) Try using a PLC as an AV weapon on a Galmmando, you'll be pleased.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 394	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:25:00 - [20] - Quote I say again, if you want to be great with cheap AV, go commando. You don't make compromises, and that reload speed and extra damage helps a lot.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6432	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:26:00 - [21] - Quote @Charlotte O'Dell What Spotlight? And I've already stated the point of this thread in the first sentence of the OP. It's for people who are wondering what the cost of a maxed out AV fitting with maxed out skills would be. Please obtain basic reading comprehension skills before insulting me. Thanks. @Lorhak Gannarsein Yes, and I have a vehicle build that costs 2,269,740 SP. With it, I can wreck both Infantry and Tankers all day, every day. Does this mean that being a tanker only requires 2.2m SP? @Henchmen21 I do. But a better question would be "who uses prototype anything on a vehicle?" @The Attorney General I die 3-4 times fighting a vehicle because of infantry running around with Rifles, Cloaked Scouts, Snipers, and just about anything else that's AP in this game. Unlike Forge Gunners, I don't get my results by camping on a tower. What do I do? The same thing every person tanking shields would do. Duck for cover and wait for their shields to regen. You'd probably die anyways if someone broke into your armor with only 135HP. Why Minmatar Assault? Because of the superior Speed and Strafing abilities, as well as the larger SMG clip. Plus, I could use the Minmatar Assault for more than just AV, while the Amarr Logi would only be good for Drop Uplinks. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6432	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:29:00 - [22] - Quote @Harpyja I don't think you should be talking about relying on gear to win. After all, you were one of the many tankers crying over how someone with a MLT Railgun can destroy you, and how people with low tier gear [MLT] should not be able to threaten your tank. Also, you hide in an HAV as your main profession. Anything involving skill does not concern you, nor is it possible for you to call someone out on a lack of such without it becoming hypocrisy. This is going to be a long one, so please bear with me. Thanks. Quote: Profile Dampening - You need profile dampening to get under 36db. Otherwise you won't be able to sneak up on any HAV that's running an Active Scanner. Kinetic Catalyzation - Have you ever tried to strafe an 80GJ Ion Cannon? Have you ever tried to run around a corner to prevent getting rick rolled by one? That speed is important. Minmatar Assault Dropsuits - That 5% reduction to Light Weapon CPU/PG cost per level is why you need it. A 25% reduction to CPU/PG cost can (and will) become your best friend. Also, the M/1 Series would allow you to get the work done. If you like running around with Base HP, less offensive power than a Starter Fit, and No Assault Swarm Launcher. Swarm Launcher Proficiency - Every % counts. What if there was a skill that increased Shield Resistance by 3% per level? Would you only train it to level IV, or would you max it out? Swarm Launcher Ammo Count - Do I really need to explain this? Without this skill, you only have 2 clips (which isn't much for a Swarm Launcher) before you have to retreat to cover for ammo. Having this is important so that you aren't forced to be tied down to a Nanohive, and the skill only gives you 1 Swarm per level so Level V is key. Sub-Machine Gun Operation - Right. So your using a STD SMG which means that unless your in a heavy suit, my ~~Combat~~ hell, any of my rifles, would have killed you about 4 times over before you could kill me once. Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency - It's the only way to get my hands on that Ishukone ASMG. The price of the ADV version of my AV suit is 88,320 ISK. If you wish to pass your critique on it, then see this fitting here. If you wish to modify the SP total to account for what you claim to be simple neccisties, you may do that as well. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:31:00 - [23] - Quote My AV suit costs 50k, I have RE's and 3 nanohives, and I drive myself around in a LAV that costs 20k (so entire fit is 70k). You're doing it wrong. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6433	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:42:00 - [24] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: My AV suit costs 50k, I have RE's and 3 nanohives, and I drive myself around in a LAV that costs 20k (so entire fit is 70k). You're doing it wrong. I had a tank that only cost 500k back in 1.6. The entire tanking community was doing it wrong. The Snack That Smiles Back! "Swarmers" [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
The Attorney General 2531	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:46:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: @The Attorney General I die 3-4 times fighting a vehicle because of infantry running around with Rifles, Cloaked Scouts, Snipers, and just about anything else that's AP in this game. Unlike Forge Gunners, I don't get my results by camping on a tower. What do I do? The same thing every person tanking shields would do. Duck for cover and wait for their shields to regen. You'd probably die anyways if someone broke into your armor with only 135HP. Why Minmatar Assault? Because of the superior Speed and Strafing abilities, as well as the larger SMG clip. Plus, I could use the Minmatar Assault for more than just AV, while the Amarr Logi would only be good for Drop Uplinks. AV guy dies to infantry. Sounds about right. Maybe you should learn to teamwork and you wouldn't be so mad. Nice jab at FG users. Not like there weapon isn't functioning properly right now or anything. Nice to see you are such a scrub that you hate on your AV brethren who have to aim. Amarr logi is only good for uplinks? Clearly those equipment slots can hold other handy things for taking out tanks, or are you unable to see past the bonus? All around, the Amarr logi is a better AV suit than the Min assault. Since you are not in the suit for the bonus, you can spec ot advanced for the third equipment slot and make a cheap serviceable version for cheap with 90% effectiveness of the proto. I know you don't know how to tank, and clearly you can't AV, so what exactly have you been doing in your time playing this game? Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1527	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:59:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: @Harpyja I don't think you should be talking about relying on gear to win. After all, you were one of the many tankers crying over how someone with a MLT Railgun can destroy you, and how people with low tier gear [MLT] should not be able to threaten your tank. Also, you hide in an HAV as your main profession. Anything involving skill does not concern you, nor is it possible for you to call someone out on a lack of such without it becoming hypocrisy. This is going to be a long one, so please bear with me. Thanks. Quote: Profile Dampening - You need profile dampening to get under 36db. Otherwise you won't be able to sneak up on any HAV that's running an Active Scanner. Kinetic Catalyzation - Have you ever tried to strafe an 80GJ Ion Cannon? Have you ever tried to run around a corner to prevent getting rick rolled by one? That speed is important. Minmatar Assault Dropsuits - That 5% reduction to Light Weapon CPU/PG cost per level is why you need it. A 25% reduction to CPU/PG cost can (and will) become your best friend. Also, the M/1 Series would allow you to get the work done. If you like running around with Base HP, less offensive power than a Starter Fit, and No Assault Swarm Launcher. Swarm Launcher Proficiency - Every % counts. What if there was a skill that increased Shield Resistance by 3% per level? Would you only train it to level IV, or would you max it out? Swarm Launcher Ammo Count - Do I really need to explain this? Without this skill, you only have 2 clips (which isn't much for a Swarm Launcher) before you have to retreat to cover for ammo. Having this is important so that you aren't forced to be tied down to a Nanohive, and the skill only gives you 1 Swarm per level so Level V is key. Sub-Machine Gun Operation - Right. So your using a STD SMG which means that unless your in a heavy suit, my ~~Combat~~ hell, any of my rifles, would have killed you about 4 times over before you could kill me once. Sub-Machine Gun Proficiency - It's the only way to get my hands on that Ishukone ASMG. The price of the ADV version of my AV suit is 88,320 ISK. If you wish to pass your critique on it, then see this fitting here. If you wish to modify the SP total to account for what you claim to be simple neccisties, you may do that as well. Ugh, why do I continue arguing with you. The problem with having MLT stuff as good as PRO stuff is that there's close to no benefit of SP investment over no SP investment. It's SP investment that should count, not so much on gear. You have kept all of your passive skills while we have lost almost all of our passive skills. The only way to separate us now is on gear itself. The way I tank probably requires more skill than you have ever used. Screw all those blaster/railgun tanks that bum-rush everything and win. Missiles require true skill. I have to play tactically and have great situational awareness to be able to successfully ambush another tank. If I encounter a hardened shield tank, I have to either stalk it or dance with it to wait out its hardener. Please don't talk to me about skill again because you clearly don't know what it requires to be a successful missile tanker. I've yet to lose to a single missile tank because they all think it's easy when it's not. Also, I have an alt that's an Amarr Assault with maxed out armor upgrades, near maxed out shield upgrades, ScR prof 3, etc., so your whole statement just falls apart. Now, profile dampening is a luxury. Not every tank has an active scanner either. Plus scanners have cooldowns, so you should try to sneak up on it while it's on cooldown. Kinetic catalyzation is also a luxury. You shouldn't be right next to the tank in the first place. Minmatar Assault at 5. Please tell me, why is that -25% reduction so important now? You didn't have it before, so it's a luxury now. If PG and CPU values changed, sure, but they haven't. Also, do you need the assault SL? The only proto SL I've seen has been the Wiyrkomi SL, and it has shown itself on the killfeed a fair amount of times. SL proficiency 4 is just as good as 5. If you rely on such a tiny amount of % to get your job done, then you should rethink how you do it in the first place. And yes, I'd probably just put that shield skill up to 4 instead of 5. In 1.6 where the skill provided 2% resistance per level, I had it at 4 because all of the SP to get it to 5 were not worth it. I finally got it when I had nothing else to skill up. SL ammo count; just pick a good spot, throw down a couple of nanohives, and fire away. Or is it too hard for you to play tactically and find such a spot? SMG: tell that to all of those people I've dropped with my standard SMG. The price of my Gunnlogi is 560k. I average about 5-10 tank kills for every tank I lose. The average tank I kill costs no more than 80k. Therefore, your statement that you die multiple times to kill one tank is flawed, because I also lose about the same amount of ISK as that which I destroy. Now, stop wasting both your time and my time. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1527	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:04:00 - [27] - Quote Also, need I remind you that proxies work very well? I'm surprised that proxies are rarely seen on the field. That means you don't even need to spend all that SP on SLs and stuff. The only SP's you need to invest for AV go into proxies. All of the other SP you have go where ever you want into whichever role you want. Because with proxies, you sacrifice next to nothing (aside from investing the SP that could've gone somewhere else). During one week of play, I got destroyed by proxies twice. The first time through 3975 shield and 1500 armor, the second time through 5300 shield and 1500 armor. The total amount of battles where I encountered proxies was probably no more than four. I'd say that that's a rather high success rate, wouldn't you agree? "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 876	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:05:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: @Henchmen21 I do. But a better question would be "who uses prototype anything on a vehicle?" There's something satisfying in killing tanks with a Particle Cannon, probably because it means the rest of my fit isn't as, for the lack of a better term scrubby. 1.8 better then 1.7 but not by much. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1527	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:07:00 - [29] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Atiim wrote: @Henchmen21 I do. But a better question would be "who uses prototype anything on a vehicle?" There's something satisfying in killing tanks with a Particle Cannon, probably because it means the rest of my fit isn't as, for the lack of a better term scrubby. Using any kind of large railgun makes your tank scrubby. The reason I use proto is because it sets me apart from the 0 SP wannabe's, because almost all of our passive skills have been taken away. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Captain Equestria Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 3	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:13:00 - [30] - Quote Tanks are starting to balance a little more...but only a little. One HMG heavy was able to lock down an objective all on his own, and attract all blueberry attention without dying because he would fire at us from his Soma, and the three occasions where I got on top of him to lay RE's, he exited to mow me and re-entered, like any true scrub. None of the other blueberry's took the chance at him when he was vulnerable. These things shouldn't be happening. There is a lot that we don't consider that make them OP a ton. Like the ability of reps negating damage, and users exiting and re-entering vehicles in seconds.



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