DUST Search - Proposed Ideas to Improve Planetary Conquest

Kain Spero wrote:

I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on.

1. Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 (or 60) million ISK a piece. Alternate option is go back to 150 clones at 40 million ISK.

2. Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k

3. Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit.

4. Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts.

5. Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed.

6. Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle.

7. Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even (Probably can't be done in a hotfix). Alternate idea is to just give some amount of ISK even when losing.

8. Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden.

Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion.

Edit: Points Updated to Reflect Discussion

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smartlayer What The French Red Whines. 80	Posted - 2014.04.07 18:43:00 - [91] - Quote GÇó Forbidding any CPM member to build a business within DUST514, he's of course allowed to play or even to be CEO of a corporation That to avoid possible : conflIt of interest, insider trading, abuse of power, influence peddling A CSM is here to represent the community and working for the interest of the community and not himself or the community who elected him (to some extend....)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3291	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:20:00 - [92] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: The problem with PC battles is that there is absolutely ZERO benefit for Eve players to be part of PC other than helping the corp. Take the districts and make them valuable, add Eve to Dust and vice versa transfers available and let people fight over them, add more districts. For all of "two lines of code" as per Hilmar during the last fanfest we could have more districts. Edit: Not just PC district transfers but asset transfers, isk transfers and a market to sell goods...the game is broken without any of this stuff, there is a serious problem stop trying to hotfix the stuff that needs real coding time. Those fuel bonuses are great if you have a POS in system, but I'd be surprised if there is a single corp in Dust/Eve that is taking advantage of it. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 289	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:21:00 - [93] - Quote CEO of a corporation, a corporation is a business, it's job is to make isk to use towards a common goal. Anyone could have done what Kane did, no one did it though. Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Spartacus Dust NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 289	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:23:00 - [94] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: The problem with PC battles is that there is absolutely ZERO benefit for Eve players to be part of PC other than helping the corp. Take the districts and make them valuable, add Eve to Dust and vice versa transfers available and let people fight over them, add more districts. For all of "two lines of code" as per Hilmar during the last fanfest we could have more districts. Edit: Not just PC district transfers but asset transfers, isk transfers and a market to sell goods...the game is broken without any of this stuff, there is a serious problem stop trying to hotfix the stuff that needs real coding time. Those fuel bonuses are great if you have a POS in system, but I'd be surprised if there is a single corp in Dust/Eve that is taking advantage of it. SVER Prime had a pos with a moon mining thing, but the moon couldn't be mined, so it was useless, I have no idea why the never put guns on it and used it as a staging point and didn't have gta move their entire alliance into that system... ohwell. Twitter @Matthew_Dust Executor of Caps and Mercs Alliance.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1649	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:28:00 - [95] - Quote No passive ISK Multiple clone pack prices and sizes. No passive ISK No passive ISK You have to work the land to profit from it. Whether that means PVE or simply tying income soley to fighting. Supporter of tiericide, EVE interaction, and a proper NPE SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
Klivve Cussler S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 229	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:35:00 - [96] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: The problem with PC battles is that there is absolutely ZERO benefit for Eve players to be part of PC other than helping the corp. Take the districts and make them valuable, add Eve to Dust and vice versa transfers available and let people fight over them, add more districts. For all of "two lines of code" as per Hilmar during the last fanfest we could have more districts. Edit: Not just PC district transfers but asset transfers, isk transfers and a market to sell goods...the game is broken without any of this stuff, there is a serious problem stop trying to hotfix the stuff that needs real coding time. It's weird, but there is no way to see who owns a district in Eve. Nothing on the Map, sov dialog, or Planetary view. Nothing. I don't know why there isn't a bigger footprint. Sure, the Eve guys will mostly ignore it for now, but for those players that have an interest, at least they could check it out.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3291	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:36:00 - [97] - Quote Spartacus Dust wrote: CEO of a corporation, a corporation is a business, it's job is to make isk to use towards a common goal. Anyone could have done what Kane did, no one did it though. Before you go patting them on the back too hard, it took nearly a year for the PC community to largely stop participating for this to happen. How hard do you think it was to convince FA, RND, AE, and NS to join up with Kain and Co when they were the only ones really fighting each other? "Hey dudes, why spend ISK fighting each other when we can print ISK?" You think that is some kind of diplomatic accomplishment? Eon did it when there was a lot going on. Back then you had: Synergy Gaming Red Star Giant Generals Team Players RND Ill Omens Pure Innocence forgetting others Outside of Eon you had: Outer Heaven Hellstorm KEQ Southern Legion Seraphim What the French Pro Hic and many others I conservatively guessed in another thread that we had (prior to the donut) 1/10th of the participation in PC that we had nearly a year ago. This is largely the reason we started locking. There was no strategy in empire building, it was who hired the best set of ringers the quickest. The donut is simply an ISK printing scheme that is taking advantage of a dead game mode. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3291	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:37:00 - [98] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: No passive ISK Multiple clone pack prices and sizes. No passive ISK No passive ISK You have to work the land to profit from it. Whether that means PVE or simply tying income soley to fighting. Did you check out Pokey's thread? That is what we all need to get behind ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1707	Posted - 2014.04.07 19:59:00 - [99] - Quote 0.0 Planets need to start controlling one or Two key elements in POS fuel manufacturing from the Planetary Infrastructure Mechanic in EVE online. Sure, High Security Space and Low security space can produce every other type of Planetary Infrastructure material... But a couple of the more rare types should be moved to 0.0 production only.And then the item production be influenced and or controlled by the DUST 514 world. Many people under estimate POS fuel need in the game of EVE online... or even the significance of fuel for POS's running all moon and tech 2 production in EVE online let alone entire Alliances, worm hole endeavors etc.. With DUST Mercenaries being able to have a direct impact on a key component to EVE's daily activities, We would then by default become a vital part to EVE's operation and every day. And be worth an investment from even the smaller entities to then get a district or work on getting a planet in NPC 0.0 space... and maybe be a source or a cause for EVE side content and expansion.
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2553	Posted - 2014.04.08 02:13:00 - [100] - Quote Bethhy wrote: 0.0 Planets need to start controlling one or Two key elements in POS fuel manufacturing from the Planetary Infrastructure Mechanic in EVE online. Sure, High Security Space and Low security space can produce every other type of Planetary Infrastructure material... But a couple of the more rare types should be moved to 0.0 production only.And then the item production be influenced and or controlled by the DUST 514 world. Many people under estimate POS fuel need in the game of EVE online... or even the significance of fuel for POS's running all moon and tech 2 production in EVE online let alone entire Alliances, worm hole endeavors etc.. With DUST Mercenaries being able to have a direct impact on a key component to EVE's daily activities, We would then by default become a vital part to EVE's operation and every day. And be worth an investment from even the smaller entities to then get a district or work on getting a planet in NPC 0.0 space... and maybe be a source or a cause for EVE side content and expansion. Dude, Incarna would look like a picnic... How to Leave PC

Klivve Cussler S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 233	Posted - 2014.04.08 04:24:00 - [101] - Quote Water. All terrestrial planets have it, to some degree. There could be a water extraction outpost that mines it. It's a component of coolant, which fuels POSes. Each district could produce a different amount using the resource distribution mapping already in place. The trouble is selling it. I propose a market located on the planetary customs house orbiting the planet. This gives Ccp a chance to test out cross game transactions, with a low risk of market instability.
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1233	Posted - 2014.04.08 06:31:00 - [102] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: neolutumus wrote: I am just going to leave this here and there and everywhere In this discussion I'm looking for simple solutions that can be primarily hotfixes. Holding multiple districts could produce multiple timers for each district. So if I hold 3districts I would potentially have to fight 9battles to keep them safe. Crush them
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2768	Posted - 2014.04.08 07:34:00 - [103] - Quote Keep it simple, people. Adding resources and mining and PVE and all that sort of stuff is NOT hotfixable. I still say what I was saying even before PC launched - no clone packs for those with land. Sure, they'll work around it with alt corps but that's a lot of work and effort and I'd much rather they have to do that than just be given free reign like they do now. It really is the keystone that would have stopped this mess from becoming the ugly monster it is. And passive isk/auto-clone-sale has got to go. Completely. Not just a reduction. Just stop it. If your district is full, production stops. We can't sell anything in this game at all but people with land suddenly get to sell clones? Cheers for giving a select few a market CCP - what about everyone and everything else? I have excess heavy suits I'll never use - do they just get sold? No. In the future there can be other ways to profit/benefit from districts but until then, it should just be about providing more opportunities for fun. We don't need 'incentives' to play PC - there's nothing else to do! PC is the only place you can go to be sure of having good fights instead of the one-sided slaughterhouses that are pubs and FW. These should be two very easy very hotfixable solutions that would make MH far more playable for the greater population of Dust, though obviously don't go anywhere near 'fixing' it. For the few months we might have before PC2.0 hits, it will do the job and lessen at least a little the stranglehold of the big blue donut. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2151	Posted - 2014.04.08 08:01:00 - [104] - Quote Something has to be done in the short term to make attacking and winning the most profitable action. While at the same time, attacking is a high risk action, defenders should have the upper hand. You should be able to whittle down a districts capacity (read: blob a district) by launching several attacks at the risk of losing ISK. War costs money. It does not gain you money. Alt#1 Scout gk.0 - ScR, CR, RR, PLC, SMG Alt#2 Madrugar - Ion Cannon Alt#3 Commando gk.0 - Shotgun, AR
Thalen Shadow S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:19:00 - [105] - Quote Ultimately the big blue donut was pretty much always going to be the outcome as long as it was more profitable for a district owner to not fight. To that end you need to make the actual fights more rewarding (regardless of the specific mechanic to do so) and give Landowners other benefits that don't convert directly into ISK. The various player owned structures (POS, POCO, Sov Towers) within eve do not generate isk directly but do allow the holding corporation to improve its isk generation potential. However this all ties into the economy within eve which is lacking within Dust. The changes Spero has suggested may improve that activity within PC but will not come close to fixing it (people have nothing to spend the ISK that have on).
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3227	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:41:00 - [106] - Quote Original points in the OP have been updated to reflect the discussion. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
DaNizzle4shizle Pradox One Proficiency V. 757	Posted - 2014.04.08 12:43:00 - [107] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Original points in the OP have been updated to reflect the discussion. scrub here in deez parts m8^ why you always be locking meh thread! µµ(Ò_Ó)µµ
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 68	Posted - 2014.04.08 13:25:00 - [108] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on. 1. Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 (or 60) million ISK a piece. Alternate option is go back to 150 clones at 40 million ISK. 2. Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k 3. Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit. 4. Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts. 5. Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed. 6. Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle. 7. Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even (Probably can't be done in a hotfix). Alternate idea is to just give some amount of ISK even when losing. 8. Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden. Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion. Edit: Points Updated to Reflect Discussion again none of this ideas are helping to get more players into PC they benefit only the district holders. Show some ideas how you will prevent a 16 man team take over all districts.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 2625	Posted - 2014.04.08 14:14:00 - [109] - Quote The real problem, as others have stated, is that it's too hard to get into PC. Smaller corps just can't do it. This leads to a a vicious cycle where nobody is able to gain the necessary experience to be competitive and the PC player pool gets smaller and smaller. Better players should basically always win, but without a way for corps to get in in the first place, nobody gets better. This goes back to the ludicrous absence of team deploy, but that's another discussion. I'd have to say that the best concepts geared towards increasing participation (not necessarily the exact solutions offered, just the concept) I've seen here are the following: 1) Buying clone packs (or whatever we switch to) should be more expensive the more districts you hold (starting at a nice round number like 5). This gets rid of some of the incentive to land grab because at some point you will get diminishing returns. 2) Opening up more land. Done properly this increases participation as there is more available. You would need to limit ownership in some way. One possibility would be to use the security status concept. Have a small area act as low-sec, and a much larger area as null sec. The key is that if you own districts in low-sec, you cannot own any in null sec. Low sec should also be less profitable in some way. Low-sec is not as appealing, so the elite corps that want a lot of land would have to move to nullsec. This leaves lowsec as a sort of super-sized PFC (enforced by concord, not some player corp using it as their own little protection racket) for the mid-tier people to fight over and gain experience. Using a "home-base" type mechanic of some kind would be very helpful, but to keep the wall of text at a minimum here I'll not go into it right now. 3) Finally, and to an extent I see this as the key to the whole thing I do think it's more than a little crazy that small elite groups can hold so much land. Obviously this is not real life, but it makes no sense that even Delta Force plus Seal Team 6, both to the third power, could secure an entire country. I see Kain's point that we shouldn't necessarily keep people from playing as much PC as they want, but some kind of functional limitation needs to be put in place. Whether it be based on distance, cost, time, whatever, something needs to place a realistic limit on what is now a immortal soldier of nearly mythological power, undying and able to fight wars on opposite sides of a star system nearly simultaneously with zero need for transportation or other logistical support of any kind. I realize this is not necessarily a hot-fixable thing, but I don't know that small hotfixes are able to have sizable impact at this point. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.2 Amarr victor!
Void Echo Total Extinction 2402	Posted - 2014.04.08 16:50:00 - [110] - Quote either way PC is a broken system now and if CCP cant fix it by the end of this year, itl be dead because no new blood will be pouring in and it will become a shell of what it was. Youtube Closed Beta Vet CEO: Total Extinction

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 760	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:37:00 - [111] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Traky78 wrote: 80 millions for 200 clones is too much, 60 millions will be much better. I'm concerned if the price is too low and the clone pack to0 useful we'll just end up with everyone using clone packs rather than their districts. The higher price also makes sure that locking with clones packs is done at a significant loss. Didn't read the entire thread. However, IMO the cost of clone packs needs to come way down. I would say base the cost on districts held, where the cost increases for each district owned something along the lines of: (districts owned + 1) * 10 million i.e. 0 districts : 10 mil 1 district : 20 mil 2 districts : 30 mil etc.. I think the 150 sized clone pack is the way to go. 120 is to few and 150 allows the other side to still clone you potentially. ...
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 761	Posted - 2014.04.08 17:42:00 - [112] - Quote Another thought I would add is that districts should be able to be attacked during their reinforcement window and the battle starts in 30mins from the launched attack so that you don't have 24+ hours to get the perfect 16 ringers in. This would allow surprise attacks both ways as well as coordinated strikes by multiple corps allowing them to schedule the battles at the same time. I strongly dislike the random nature of the PC battle time which really messes up coordination amoung allies. If you queue a battle more then 30 mins before the reinforcement window then the attack would occur at the start of the reinforcement window. ...
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 836	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:23:00 - [113] - Quote First off, no "hot fix" will even curb the issues currently hemorrhaging from PC. It needs an overhaul. Spending DEV time on balancing hot fixes is just not worth it. Real solutions: 1. Remove all passive isk generation. You must actively use your district to make money. (exactly how, is another topic) 2. Allow corps to bring 64 players into a match. No more 24 player groups defending 100 districts (some districts can have 64, 32, 12.) Allows smaller elite corps to hold specific districts and never lose them while allowing larger corps the freedom to "zerg" smaller elite corps 3. Reinforcement timers should only effect the last battle. Attacks should be able to happen at any time. Once there is 200 clones the distinct is locked and the final battle happens on the specified timer. Again, keeps single 25 man corps from holding onto large swaths of land and timer stacking. 4. Remove clone packs entirely. Allow corps to "accrue" clones through FW/Pubs. They are allowed to have a single facility as a corp that is genolution owned. Once full they can use this to raid a single district. It can only be used when full, all clones are sent. Clone generation rate needs to be balanced. (a corp in PC should not be using clone packs, if they want to use clone packs they have to play pubs/FW to earn them. They can only earn one. This keeps "shell corps" from becoming an issue as then the players have to be active in that corp and can only issue a single attack) PC fixed. PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Youtube
TokinABowl ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:24:00 - [114] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153445&find=unread -BETA BUNNY- Lead Director - ACME SPECIAL FORCES http://tinyurl.com/k85ymem
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3235	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:32:00 - [115] - Quote TokinABowl wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153445&find=unread Again, getting feedback in on the ground floor for PC 2.0 is great, but timely, low bandwidth, adjustments need to be made to PC 1.0. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
smartlayer What The French Red Whines. 81	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:37:00 - [116] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Original points in the OP have been updated to reflect the discussion. My suggestions haven't been listed, it's not a troll and you know it
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 499	Posted - 2014.04.09 01:08:00 - [117] - Quote There needs to be another counter implemented to deal with district locking if clone packs are going to be made at a reasonable price. Maybe if much like the timer on attacks and defenses in the battlefinder, the star map showed a timer on each district counting down to when it can be attacked; aka it's window. There would probably be 4 modes on the timer, one for when it's already under attack counting down to when the battle will take place, one for when the battle is going on, one for when the battle is over and there is x amount of time left until it can be attacked again, and one for when it is online. Perhaps giving everyone this info would make guess work less enjoyable (if anyone actually enjoys it) so I was thinking that adding a certain district infrastructure or some kind of optional upgrade that allowed you to scan districts in your system/constellation/region (whichever would be more balanced) of their timers. Making it view-able to everyone would take less work for a hotfix for the time being though. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3318	Posted - 2014.04.09 01:24:00 - [118] - Quote Arirana wrote: There needs to be another counter implemented to deal with district locking if clone packs are going to be made at a reasonable price. Maybe if much like the timer on attacks and defenses in the battlefinder, the star map showed a timer on each district counting down to when it can be attacked; aka it's window. There would probably be 4 modes on the timer, one for when it's already under attack counting down to when the battle will take place, one for when the battle is going on, one for when the battle is over and there is x amount of time left until it can be attacked again, and one for when it is online. Perhaps giving everyone this info would make guess work less enjoyable (if anyone actually enjoys it) so I was thinking that adding a certain district infrastructure or some kind of optional upgrade that allowed you to scan districts in your system/constellation/region (whichever would be more balanced) of their timers. Making it view-able to everyone would take less work for a hotfix for the time being though. Locking wouldn't be an issue if the numbers were tweaked to make attacking and winning the most profitable action. Also make clone packs only available to non-landholders. If the primary advantage of having a district were being able to attack with more clones it changes everything. If you also introduced the window timers and 30 minute spawns of battles you have a game mode that is going to be played by a much larger portion of our playerbase. ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
Kain Spero Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3238	Posted - 2014.04.09 04:41:00 - [119] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Locking wouldn't be an issue if the numbers were tweaked to make attacking and winning the most profitable action. Also make clone packs only available to non-landholders. If the primary advantage of having a district were being able to attack with more clones it changes everything. If you also introduced the window timers and 30 minute spawns of battles you have a game mode that is going to be played by a much larger portion of our playerbase. Again, alt corps would make this a silly thing to try and implement. Example: you have Corp A and Corp B in an alliance but only Corp A has land. Under this setup Corp A hold the land and Corp B launches the clone packs. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2026	Posted - 2014.04.09 04:43:00 - [120] - Quote We can buy as many clone packs as we want without penalty for a good reason, it's impossible to actually stop us from buying them using shell corporations. I think the solution there isn't to limit the purchase of them, but limit the usefulness of them without making them weak. Something like this: buff the number of clones in the pack, but only allow them to be deployed to planets within 2 jumps of a Genolution station or highsec. If you want to own large chunks of territory then, you need to attack and defend with the clones you made yourself. This makes the lab bonus meaningful, limits the usefulness of them but still gives new corps the chance to carve out a piece of the pie at the edge of the region. I think the problems of PC can be boiled down to the fact that the design was built around the idea of location / geography being an important factor, and then the system we got threw that part out the window. Without that the mechanics required to make it work at all caused the system to become unstable and collapse.



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