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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2768
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Posted - 2014.04.08 07:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Keep it simple, people. Adding resources and mining and PVE and all that sort of stuff is NOT hotfixable.
I still say what I was saying even before PC launched - no clone packs for those with land. Sure, they'll work around it with alt corps but that's a lot of work and effort and I'd much rather they have to do that than just be given free reign like they do now. It really is the keystone that would have stopped this mess from becoming the ugly monster it is.
And passive isk/auto-clone-sale has got to go. Completely. Not just a reduction. Just stop it. If your district is full, production stops. We can't sell anything in this game at all but people with land suddenly get to sell clones? Cheers for giving a select few a market CCP - what about everyone and everything else? I have excess heavy suits I'll never use - do they just get sold? No. In the future there can be other ways to profit/benefit from districts but until then, it should just be about providing more opportunities for fun. We don't need 'incentives' to play PC - there's nothing else to do! PC is the only place you can go to be sure of having good fights instead of the one-sided slaughterhouses that are pubs and FW.
These should be two very easy very hotfixable solutions that would make MH far more playable for the greater population of Dust, though obviously don't go anywhere near 'fixing' it. For the few months we might have before PC2.0 hits, it will do the job and lessen at least a little the stranglehold of the big blue donut.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2801
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Posted - 2014.04.09 07:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kristoff Atruin wrote:We can buy as many clone packs as we want without penalty for a good reason, it's impossible to actually stop us from buying them using shell corporations. I think the solution there isn't to limit the purchase of them, but limit the usefulness of them without making them weak.
Something like this: buff the number of clones in the pack, but only allow them to be deployed to planets within 2 jumps of a Genolution station or highsec. If you want to own large chunks of territory then, you need to attack and defend with the clones you made yourself. This makes the lab bonus meaningful, limits the usefulness of them but still gives new corps the chance to carve out a piece of the pie at the edge of the region.
I think the problems of PC can be boiled down to the fact that the design was built around the idea of location / geography being an important factor, and then the system we got threw that part out the window. Without that the mechanics required to make it work at all caused the system to become unstable and collapse.
This is a great idea that needs to be implemented but is perhaps not hotfixable in PC1.0.
However, removing passive isk entirely means that there would be zero incentive to lock districts. That's that problem solved supremely easily and all connected problems massively reduced. The blue donut would become pretty pointless, as no one would be making any money. You could reduce clone pack prices to whatever you want and change the clone numbers and whatever else without having to worry about the economic side of things.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2827
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Posted - 2014.04.10 08:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:Another idea would be to cut down the value for automatic clone sales by quite a bit, and have one particular SI that holds a lower max number of clones but receives more isk per clone on manual sales. ie: the facility is better at preparing / storing clones, so a higher percentage of them arrive at the destination in good condition. So what you would ideally do is have some factories, a central cargo district and sales points to get your isk out. If you want to make isk then some point of your supply chain gets weakened, and due to clone movement attrition you want them close together. If someone takes out part of that chain or locks it by attacking, your income goes down.
To go with that we'd need to be able to transfer clones to other corporations, so if I didn't have a sales district I could sell my clones to someone who does with them taking a portion of the profit.
Not hotfixable, but it's an idea. Yeah, an interesting idea. The more I think about it the more getting rid of auto sale makes sense. 5 districts? Not too hard to manage. 245 districts? Manual sale because a major logistical task.
Precisely. If passive isk is turned off completely, you can still make isk from each of your districts every day, it just becomes an active process and involves the inherent risk of lower clone counts. Risk <> Reward. Done.
DO IT
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2834
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Posted - 2014.04.11 07:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
@CHANCEtheChAn - these are the easy fixes that can be hotfixed in to deal with some of the glaring problems with PC1.0 - they will be only bandaids until PC2.0 comes along. You can not fix the problem of accessibility and low participation with a hotfix - that will only be possible with a whole new update, which could still be months away.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2834
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Posted - 2014.04.11 13:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
FYI -
Hotfixing = changing numbers
Hotfixing =/= adding anything new whatsoever
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2837
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Posted - 2014.04.11 17:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Django Quik wrote:FYI -
Hotfixing = changing numbers
Hotfixing =/= adding anything new whatsoever Completely wrong. Even CCP is not this bad.
When have CCP ever added something new in a hotfix? They fiddle with numbers and fix bugs but anything even remotely new they leave for the big updates, even a lot of the bug fixes!
Changing numbers of clone packs or removing passive isk I can see as doable in one of these hotfixes without too much bother but do you really believe that they'll be able to manage anything grander than that with PC1.0 without a proper update and before PC2.0 comes out? Do you really think they'll bother to monkey with the mechanics when they're going to tear it all down and replace it in a few months anyway?
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2837
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Posted - 2014.04.12 09:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Django Quik wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Django Quik wrote:FYI -
Hotfixing = changing numbers
Hotfixing =/= adding anything new whatsoever Completely wrong. Even CCP is not this bad. When have CCP ever added something new in a hotfix? They fiddle with numbers and fix bugs but anything even remotely new they leave for the big updates, even a lot of the bug fixes! Changing numbers of clone packs or removing passive isk I can see as doable in one of these hotfixes without too much bother but do you really believe that they'll be able to manage anything grander than that with PC1.0 without a proper update and before PC2.0 comes out? Do you really think they'll bother to monkey with the mechanics when they're going to tear it all down and replace it in a few months anyway? Your quote saying hotfixing = changing numbers is completely wrong. Hotfixes often are used to fix bugs but they can also be used to add in content that you couldn't complete in time or to resolve something that ends up not working as intended. This can often mean adding new code, although for hotfixes it would usually be smaller changes. I agree that they should only be making smaller changes; however, you're incorrect in thinking those changes can only be adjusting numbers.
Okay, maybe I should have framed my assertion in the context of CCP and Dust514. Yes, normally hotfixes in other companies on other software projects could be much more than just changing numbers - on Dust it's basically only changing numbers.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2837
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Posted - 2014.04.12 09:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:I think folks are underestimating the value of effective clone packs. I'm also curious now if a raiding mechanic can be implemented. What if instead of auto sale on the reinforce timer it spawns a match that you have to go into and win to get the ISK from your auto sale. The match spawns in other contracts for the attacker side where anyone can join. Attackers win they get ISK from the clone sale instead. Each side gets 40 clones.
The effect would be a way for corps without land to siphon ISK from the big boys and potentially use that ISK to fund effective clone packs rather the relying on just taxes and donations. (My concern is this idea would require too much bandwidth)
I hate this idea purely because the attack becomes open to all. Every merc and their dog would jump in that match and no organised group would ever get their whole team in to attack. Only the very worst defending team would ever lose but what's worse is that it would exacerbate the problem you mentioned earlier of PC becoming a job.
Remove auto-sales (but not manual clone sales) and drastically lower clone pack costs and you'll get a lot more fighting.
Technically these two changes would still leave the door open for self locking but with no auto-sale isk the incentive is way way reduced and in order to make any money from self-locking you'd need people to actually play the attacking clones to get them killed.
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2854
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks Kain - despite what anyone thinks of DNS or yourself or your motivations for any of this, I support any effort to bandaid PC1.0 for the time-being and remain hopeful that PC2.0 will come in swiftly to give us the game we have all been wanting.
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