We can buy as many clone packs as we want without penalty for a good reason, it's impossible to actually stop us from buying them using shell corporations. I think the solution there isn't to limit the purchase of them, but limit the usefulness of them without making them weak.

Something like this: buff the number of clones in the pack, but only allow them to be deployed to planets within 2 jumps of a Genolution station or highsec. If you want to own large chunks of territory then, you need to attack and defend with the clones you made yourself. This makes the lab bonus meaningful, limits the usefulness of them but still gives new corps the chance to carve out a piece of the pie at the edge of the region.

I think the problems of PC can be boiled down to the fact that the design was built around the idea of location / geography being an important factor, and then the system we got threw that part out the window. Without that the mechanics required to make it work at all caused the system to become unstable and collapse.

Again, alt corps would make this a silly thing to try and implement. Example: you have Corp A and Corp B in an alliance but only Corp A has land. Under this setup Corp A hold the land and Corp B launches the clone packs.

We can buy as many clone packs as we want without penalty for a good reason, it's impossible to actually stop us from buying them using shell corporations. I think the solution there isn't to limit the purchase of them, but limit the usefulness of them without making them weak.

Something like this: buff the number of clones in the pack, but only allow them to be deployed to planets within 2 jumps of a Genolution station or highsec. If you want to own large chunks of territory then, you need to attack and defend with the clones you made yourself. This makes the lab bonus meaningful, limits the usefulness of them but still gives new corps the chance to carve out a piece of the pie at the edge of the region.

I think the problems of PC can be boiled down to the fact that the design was built around the idea of location / geography being an important factor, and then the system we got threw that part out the window. Without that the mechanics required to make it work at all caused the system to become unstable and collapse.

The only thing that will save PC is increasing clone pack size or adding the ability to buy up to 450 clones at a set price per clone. At this point every other PC change is inconsequential in my mind other than adding a new region.


Clone packs must allow corps a fighting chance and 120 is just stupid.

And increasing clone pack size is such an easy change.

The only thing that will save PC is increasing clone pack size or adding the ability to buy up to 450 clones at a set price per clone. At this point every other PC change is inconsequential in my mind other than adding a new region.


Clone packs must allow corps a fighting chance and 120 is just stupid.

No passive ISK
No passive ISK
No passive ISK
Incentivize conflict over complacency, at this point the incentive to make ISK instead of fight is not only detrimental to PC now in terms of fair fights (if any) but also to any future iteration of PC where those that have made so much off the current mechanics have a huge upper hand and we're back to where we are now.
No passive ISK
No passive ISK

Must +1.

I'm pretty much in the same boat with killing off passive ISK except for the feedback I gotten from people outside the donut. The issue then becomes what incentivizes people to fight for districts or more importantly hold them? Holding a district means you have to react to those that attack you while living the life without land (which Imperfects strived for at the launch of planetary conquest) allows you freedom to fight when you choose to fight with no way for an enemy to attack you back although you have to base your match time on the timers set by district owners.

I will say that 110k ISK per clone for doing nothing while getting 100k per biomassed clone when it includes the cost of equipment used in fighting and the time in fighting as well is nuts. If it weren't more profitable to sit on clones then the current blue donut would not exist I don't think or at least the ties would be much more tenuous.

Can the prestige of having your name on district be enough to drive people to fix themselves into saying, "We are willing to defend every 24 to 48 hours at this set time should our enemies choose to attack us"? I think the drive to build sand castles is strong, but is it enough with just some minor variations of the current PC mechanics if the value of districts (passive ISK) is eliminated?

Long term mercs don't need to be owning the districts. I think PC 1.0 has proven that out. They need to be owned at the corporate level and there needs to be relative parity between Eve and Dust CEOs and Directors.

Another idea would be to cut down the value for automatic clone sales by quite a bit, and have one particular SI that holds a lower max number of clones but receives more isk per clone on manual sales. ie: the facility is better at preparing / storing clones, so a higher percentage of them arrive at the destination in good condition. So what you would ideally do is have some factories, a central cargo district and sales points to get your isk out. If you want to make isk then some point of your supply chain gets weakened, and due to clone movement attrition you want them close together. If someone takes out part of that chain or locks it by attacking, your income goes down.

To go with that we'd need to be able to transfer clones to other corporations, so if I didn't have a sales district I could sell my clones to someone who does with them taking a portion of the profit.

Not hotfixable, but it's an idea.

Yeah, an interesting idea. The more I think about it the more getting rid of auto sale makes sense. 5 districts? Not too hard to manage. 245 districts? Manual sale because a major logistical task.

Precisely. If passive isk is turned off completely, you can still make isk from each of your districts every day, it just becomes an active process and involves the inherent risk of lower clone counts. Risk <> Reward. Done.

DO IT

@CHANCEtheChAn - these are the easy fixes that can be hotfixed in to deal with some of the glaring problems with PC1.0 -youll be only bandaids until PC2.0 comes along. You can not fix the problem of accessibility and low participation with a hotfix - that will only be possible with a whole new update, which could still be months away.

FYI -

Hotfixing = changing numbers

Hotfixing =/= adding anything new whatsoever

Kain, how would you feel about pushing for the removal/replacement of districts with whole planets being a single district/combat area? It would allow CCP to spread DUST to more regions without rampantly increasing the district count.

I don't think the total number of districts should rise much, but given how much EVE participation is relevant to where EVE groups live, I think it'd be ideal to get DUST in as many regions as possible. Reducing or removing the district pile would allow region proliferation without district proliferation.