I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on.

[1] Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 million ISK a piece.

[2] Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k

[3] Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit.

[4]Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts.

[5]Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed.

[6]Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle.

[7]Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even.

[8]Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden.

Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion.

120 Clones it utter crap and a waste of ISK. It has to get changed.

Items 1-5 are perfect.

Item 6 seems like it could introduce a new form of district locking (for example, a corp transfers its district to an ally the moment that district comes online). Therefore, it is problematic.

Item 7 is interesting. However, there is the current problem where players who actually kill a clone or destroy a vehicle are not necessarily rewarded the said clone's gear or the vehicle. This, I think, must be changed before an option for players to sell their loot is offered.

Item 8 also seems interesting. My guess is that you want to allow corporations in the same alliance to have friendly but competitive skirmishes with one another. However, I think your suggested change would make the Eve-Dust connection a bit arbitrary and could further alienate the Dust community from Eve. Should you want something like 'practice matches,' perhaps suggest that CCP releaase another game mode to be a part of 'Other Contracts.' I mean: they already have the code for corporate battles, why not just tweak that code to be like the current PC and put it into the 'Other Contract' section?

Great work overall.

6: When you transfer a district is would still be available to be attacked. I would likely see it transferring in the "online" state to mirror the way district transfers currently occur through abandonment and then clon-packing.

7: I think right now 50% of gear used in battle is salvaged. I think this option is better than the losers getting no ISK at all.

8. The intent is more to let the relationships between Eve and Dust be more free-form. A small corp could strike up a convo with a pilot in local and have that pilot providing OB support in a couple minutes. I think this would actually help prevent mass groups organizing quite as much under a single just because of Orbital Support. This would also allow corps that have no Eve players and thus can join an alliance to befriend pilots in an alliance and still be able to have them come to their aid.

Good points.

I bet you and other CPMs will make sure district locking in any form won't make its way into Dust again. So the transferring idea would definitely be useful once setup.

I like the idea of selling salvage. Perhaps, if implemented, this function could be added to FW too. The question, though, is: how would salvage be valuated?

Also, in terms of the Dust-Eve connection, perhaps you could also add some bonus to Eve players who do eventually ally with a specific Dust corporation or alliance? I think it's useful to continue to develop possibilities of intimate connections between Dust and Eve players. A less intimate relation (like the one you describe) would be a stepping stone for the more intimate ones. I don't play Eve, so I don't know what would be useful to its players. Maybe Eve players who join or ally with a given Dust corp/alliance could generate passive isk according to the playtime of Dust players in that corp/alliance?

I'm concerned if the price is too low and the clone pack to0 useful we'll just end up with everyone using clone packs rather than their districts. The higher price also makes sure that locking with clones packs is done at a significant loss.

While these are great suggestion Kain, I am concerned that the 80 million ISK per clone pack will initially favor the current establishment in the blue doughnut.

I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on.

• Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 million ISK a piece.


• Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k


• Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit.


• Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts.


• Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed.


• Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle.


• Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even.


• Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden.

Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion.

I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on.

[1] Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 million ISK a piece.

[2] Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k

[3] Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit.

[4]Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts.

[5]Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed.

[6]Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle.

[7]Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even.

[8]Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden.

Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion.

"Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even."

This should be temporary solution until player market is aded to the game.

And can i have a answer for my timer question.

Why not shorter timers ???
It will force corporations to recruits more players and send them to PC battles. This way a larger player base can participate in PC.

Before commenting, it worries me that a CPM member is making these specific suggestions. It indicates the current iteration of PC is the base from which CCP will expand on. I may be reading too much into it. I may also be overestimating how much they let the CPM in on.

I'm concerned if the price is too low and the clone pack to0 useful we'll just end up with everyone using clone packs rather than their districts. The higher price also makes sure that locking with clones packs is done at a significant loss.

I like the idea of dropping the passive ISK generation. If a district fills up, the clones should stop being produced and the owner should have to manually sell them, which opens the district to attack.

But I think even that isn't going quite far enough. District ownership should have a sov bill that escalates each day if the clones are not sold off. The longer the district can't produce its full amount, the more the bill increases until a weekly cap. This bill should start at a point where selling the daily clone generation would turn a profit, but if the cap is hit, the cost is about twice what the district produces a day. So sitting happy on a district is discouraged.

And after the market opens up, clone sales shouldn't be automatic to an npc corp, they should be placed on the open market where the demand of pc fights will dictate their value.

Eventually the value from owning a district should be tied to pve being done on the district, and the clone generation should be for attacks less than isk.

Red Star fully supports kain speros proposed changes to PC mechanics. Even if you dont like his alliance or his plans for PC these changes would give the smaller corps a fighting chance and would make PC much more exciting. Everyone needs to like and bump this thread so CCP takes notice and actually makes a positive change for once.

The 2 most important changes to me are

* Increasing clone packs to 200 clones (120 is just silly)


* Opening up additional regions (Molden Heath is to small)

This is a sure fire way to bankrupt smaller corps and and keep PC stagnant as it is.


One should not be penalized for wanting to attack you should be able to purchase attack clones by number at the price of 100k -150k per clone up to as many that are on the district being attacked

I think long term the price is good, but it HAS to be cheaper to involve corps that have yet to or no longer participate in PC for some period of time upon release.

The end goal is to have fights and "surprise" we're fighting now isn't really a great mechanic. People have real lives and should be given the chance to schedule out how to respond to starting a fight or setting up a defense. The other side of this is that the timers as they are give a chance for the organization needed to occur between both Eve and Dust. This would be especially true if Orbital Support is opened up beyond the chains of alliance membership.

@Kain

You are missing the real problems PC has. Those problems are passive isk generation and unlimited force projection, that allows a corp to chain fights with the same players all around Molden Heath instantly.


Those problems are inherent to PC 1.0 design. You can make all the small patches and fixes you want, but the current PC situation wont change because PC 1.0 is broken at its core. Even if DNS breaks after fanfest, Molden Heath will always be dominated by the 4-5 top corps of the moment.

Opening more districts would solve nothing. Those corps would have just double the districts they have now, with double the isk.


In my opinion, wasting development resources in PC 1.0 would be a mistake, because it is unfixable. Just focus in PC 2.0 and pray they don't screw it up.

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Also, I have a question. Are your proposals coming from Kain the CPM or from Kain the player? Because, honestly, some of your proposals seem to be made by the player.

Making the transfer of districts easier, or making easier the use of mercenary eve pilots, are things that would be of benefit to a very small part of the playerbase.

As Kain the player, it is legit for you to push for changes that benefit your game goals. But as CPM, I would prefer you to push CCP to dedicate the development resources they have to things that would make the game better for the entire playerbase, instead of 1%.

There is nothing wrong if you are pushing for these changes as Kain the player, but you should make it clear in the OP.

I think we all realise that Planetary Conquest has some holes in it still and I think simple changes could be made to dramatically improve how PC 1.0 plays out. The current situation I think exemplifies some of the numerous issues from clone pack size to passive ISK being better than fighting. I have a series of proposed ideas that I'd like to hear the community's thoughts on.

• Increase Clone Pack Size to 200 Clones at 80 million ISK a piece. 2 different clone packs. 120 for 36mil or 200 for 80


• Turn off clone auto sale or reduced passive clone sales to 60k and increase biomass from battle to 160k. Remove auto sale. Period.


• Make it where you only get ISK for clones killed in battle, which will tie up some loose ends potential locking for profit.
Agreed.


• Make clone moves a minimum of 200 clones so that a district is weakened when an attack is launched and help minimize the snowball effect of owning many many districts.

Would do little to change the situation. Unless after an attack is launched no reinforcement tier is issued.


• Explore the idea of opening another Region of space in Dust 514 Planetary Conquest to spur activity, but only if the issues with passive ISK are addressed.


• Implement a district transfer function so that a corporation doesn't have to use a clone pack to get into PC and also open up possibilities in terms of how conflicts are resolved outside of battle.
An actual way of trading or giving contracts is the only way to do this.


• Add an option at the end of battle to liquidate loot for ISK, so that even when a battle is lost you still have a way to make ISK out of it or come close to breaking even.
Isn't a big issue but would be a nice complimentary prize.


• Add the ability for any Eve pilot to connect to a district and fire for either team. This would allow freedom of association when it comes to alliance membership and allow Dust matches to be content for all of New Eden.
Going back to the ideas of contracts... Send isk to pay for a mercenary group to drop an OB. If anyone could do it things would get messy for no reason.

Thanks to Eugene Killmore for helping get some of the brain juice flowing in this discussion.

So the problem is better players can beat crappy players? Thats every fps ever made. Step 1 of fixing pc is making clone packs a option for those without districts. Cus right now its impossible to compete in pc without districts.

So the problem is better players can beat crappy players? Thats every fps ever made. Step 1 of fixing pc is making clone packs a option for those without districts. Cus right now its impossible to compete in pc without districts.