DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Equipment balancing in Uprising 1.8

Summ Dude wrote:

KalOfTheRathi wrote:

I serious worry about your play testing good old guys at CCP/Shanghai. Seriously, very seriously. How is using any equipment as designed abuse? Either you don't have play testers that understand how gamers will use the equipment or you changed your mind as soon as real gamers went past the limitations in the scanners that only existed in your minds.

Scanners will be a waste of time, in particular when compared to how good this game was with TacNet*, and now they are truly useless. Snap shots of cloaked scouts with cool downs that will allow entire battalions to move to another location before the next one can be taken. Okay, not a battalion, that was a joke. Something that only has 16 Mercs on a side would work though.

How much longer before you determine that we have been abusing weapons all this time by shooting other Mercs with them? Pirate

* TacNet was one of the best features of Dust514, too bad, so sad.

I think you misunderstand the intent of Active Scanners. They're not really meant to constantly illuminate everything for you all the time, as this removes a major chunk of tactical gameplay. Basically, in 1.8, if you want to be lighting up most of the enemy team all of the time, you'll need to be running GalLogi with double Active Scanners. And ya know what? I'm just fine with that. If you've created a suit that is very specialized into one specific task, then you should be really good at doing that one thing. That's kinda the point with Dust, right? Role based gameplay, and all that.

Also, virtually any possible credibility a viewpoint of yours might've had was completely washed away when you used the term "real gamer" with utter sincerity. Just a note for the future.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)

CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 2351	Posted - 2014.03.15 03:49:00 - [91] - Quote Driftward wrote: This might be a problem....maybe. Admittedly there still is the alert that it's being hacked....but you're also straight invisible while standing still. Actually you are not straight invisible. If you have good vision you will spot some distortion - see this image from dev blog. :) I had no issues spotting something odd in front of me and shooting it ;) CCP Frame

TrogdorWas AMan Warner Bros. 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:31:00 - [92] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: The cloaks have to be one of the more exciting things to come to Dust. It's going to make the battlefield much more bloody, much messier. I like it.. All that's going to happen is half the people are going to switch to cloaky hacking scouts with nova knives or shotguns, and they're just gonna camp objectives or run around hacking everything. So much bloodshed when you can't even see your enemy. Also, being invisible when hacking and not being decloaked after getting shot just sucks. So it displays a hit animation, big woop, so does shooting the CRU or Supply Depot that they're hacking, how're you gonna know the difference? As a heavy, literally my only defense against a scout is to shoot it before it shoots me.
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 1044	Posted - 2014.03.15 04:58:00 - [93] - Quote I read the devblog, and scanned through bluetags on this thread, and did not see an answer to this very important question. Background: Currently, if someone's dropsuit profile, is lower than an enemy's scan precision, you will not show up on their radar... UNLESS they happen to spin around, and catch sight of you in their field of vision. Then you fully show up on their radar, for a time of (duration you are in sight) + 2 seconds, roughly speaking. So.. what if you are cloaked? The dev blog says that the enemy no longer sees a "chevron or health bars". But will you also not show up on line-of-sight radar? Logically, one would guess "no", but it would be reassuring to have an explicit positive answer on this.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1605	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:07:00 - [94] - Quote When in first person view with a cloaking device will there be a mouse pointer in the middle? Will the HUD also be invisible? Supporter of tiericide, EVE interaction, and a proper NPE SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy.
Temias Mercurial ANGEL FLEET 13	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:20:00 - [95] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: I read the devblog, and scanned through bluetags on this thread, and did not see an answer to this very important question. Background: Currently, if someone's dropsuit profile, is lower than an enemy's scan precision, you will not show up on their radar... UNLESS they happen to spin around, and catch sight of you in their field of vision. Then you fully show up on their radar, for a time of (duration you are in sight) + 2 seconds, roughly speaking. So.. what if you are cloaked? The dev blog says that the enemy no longer sees a "chevron or health bars". But will you also not show up on line-of-sight radar? Logically, one would guess "no", but it would be reassuring to have an explicit positive answer on this. Like active scanners, passive scanners work the exact same way, but have extremely limited range and efficiency. Your average scout will avoid all passive scans, as other suits/roles do not spec or use precision scanners. As it was said before, when cloaked, nothing will be displayed other than the "shimmer" of the suit. You wouldn't be displayed on passive scans whatsoever, unless it's another scout, which would probably be Caldari, as they receive the bonus to precision scans of +25%.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 285	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:35:00 - [96] - Quote When cloaking and decloaking noticeable VFX are played good job ccp good job. (n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 298	Posted - 2014.03.15 05:40:00 - [97] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: I serious worry about your play testing good old guys at CCP/Shanghai. Seriously, very seriously. How is using any equipment as designed abuse? Either you don't have play testers that understand how gamers will use the equipment or you changed your mind as soon as real gamers went past the limitations in the scanners that only existed in your minds. Scanners will be a waste of time, in particular when compared to how good this game was with TacNet, and now they are truly useless. Snap shots of cloaked scouts with cool downs that will allow entire battalions to move to another location before the next one can be taken. Okay, not a battalion, that was a joke. Something that only has 16 Mercs on a side would work though. How much longer before you determine that we have been abusing weapons all this time by shooting other Mercs with them? TacNet was one of the best features of Dust514, too bad, so sad. I think you misunderstand the intent of Active Scanners. They're not really meant to constantly illuminate everything for you all the time, as this removes a major chunk of tactical gameplay. Basically, in 1.8, if you want to be lighting up most of the enemy team all of the time, you'll need to be running GalLogi with double Active Scanners. And ya know what? I'm just fine with that. If you've created a suit that is very specialized into one specific task, then you should be really good at doing that one thing. That's kinda the point with Dust, right? Role based gameplay, and all that. Also, virtually any possible credibility a viewpoint of yours might've had was completely washed away when you used the term "real gamer" with utter sincerity. Just a note for the future. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Nulldust Codex Troopers 10	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:12:00 - [98] - Quote Only caldari logistics has the nanohive bonus? Frequent runs to depot for supply breaks team coodination and wrecks gameplay. Nanite supply should be tripled not reduced. Here's what I'd suggest: * Nanohive nanite supply x3. Logistics Role Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment and +10% to nanohive max. nanites per level. Caldari Logistics Bonus: +15% to revived armor to nanite injector per level. Others remain the same: Gallente Logistics Bonus: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. Minmatar Logistics Bonus: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. Amarr Logistics Bonus: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 298	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:21:00 - [99] - Quote Nulldust wrote: Only caldari logistics has the nanohive bonus? Frequent runs to depot for supply breaks team coodination and wrecks gameplay. Nanite supply should be tripled not reduced. Here's what I'd suggest: * Nanohive nanite supply x3. Logistics Role Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment and +10% to nanohive max. nanites per level. Caldari Logistics Bonus: +15% to revived armor to nanite injector per level. It "wrecks" gameplay? I would argue that it encourages you to think more about where to place your hives, and not simply drop them all over the place. The Caldari get a bonus to their racial Equipment, just like every other Logi. Nanohives are already ubiquitously used in competitive play, just like Active Scanners. Why exactly would they need a buff? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Nulldust Codex Troopers 10	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:46:00 - [100] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Nulldust wrote: Only caldari logistics has the nanohive bonus? Frequent runs to depot for supply breaks team coodination and wrecks gameplay. Nanite supply should be tripled not reduced. Here's what I'd suggest: * Nanohive nanite supply x3. Logistics Role Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment and +10% to nanohive max. nanites per level. Caldari Logistics Bonus: +15% to revived armor to nanite injector per level. It "wrecks" gameplay? I would argue that it encourages you to think more about where to place your hives, and not simply drop them all over the place. The Caldari get a bonus to their racial Equipment, just like every other Logi. Nanohives are already ubiquitously used in competitive play, just like Active Scanners. Why exactly would they need a buff? Active scanner and repair tool are nonconsumeable. As equipment they are OP in that sense compared with nanohive. That's the first reason to buff nanohive. Second reason to buff nanohive is, nanohive should be the main means for resupply instead of drop uplink or respawn, for better gameplay. Back on the suggestion, armor upon revive by nanite injector has to change accordingly or we'll have over 100% armor, for example: Standard nanite injector: 10% armour Advanced: 30% armour Prototype: 50% armour

Nulldust Codex Troopers 10	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:59:00 - [101] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Nanohives are already ubiquitously used in competitive play, just like Active Scanners. I guess that's why our perspective differs. I don't play competitively but I'd argue most players don't either. It has to be balanced for both play.
Chesyre Armundsen Thanes Of Dust 464	Posted - 2014.03.15 07:26:00 - [102] - Quote SQUEEE! ^_^ Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1039	Posted - 2014.03.15 07:29:00 - [103] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Yah sure, but that is Sana's point no? It's more subtle for a counter-hack? Christ I can't ever figure out which side it's flipping to in the heat of battle lol Exactly this. When you're straight hacking it's obvious, and when you've successfully hacked and you're waiting for it to switch to your side, it's obvious, but when you counter-hack either the letter blinks between red and white when it usually doesn't or the border blinks when it usually doesn't. I can never remember which. You do get the red notification message across your screen but that can be lost if multiple things are being hacked at once. I could very easily imagine a situation where a cloaked scout and a regular blueberry are counter-hacking in the null cannon, and a red shoots and kills the blueberry but doesn't notice the scout, allowing the scout to complete the counter-hack. For active scanners, I'm predicting they'll become more of an enemy tagger (as in you use it specifically when you know an enemy is in your scan cone, to alert your squadmates and to provide Intel if they break LOS) than an enemy detector, as it is now. For Gal Logis using multiple scanners, I'd say your best bet is to use three Creodron Flux Active Scanners and stay maybe 75m away from the domination objective on the side closest to your redline, as the 90* scan angle and 200m range will cover the most effective area and allow you to scan anew every 10 seconds with scan data always displayed.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 805	Posted - 2014.03.15 07:30:00 - [104] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: I serious worry about your play testing good old guys at CCP/Shanghai. Seriously, very seriously. How is using any equipment as designed abuse? Either you don't have play testers that understand how gamers will use the equipment or you changed your mind as soon as real gamers went past the limitations in the scanners that only existed in your minds. Scanners will be a waste of time, in particular when compared to how good this game was with TacNet, and now they are truly useless. Snap shots of cloaked scouts with cool downs that will allow entire battalions to move to another location before the next one can be taken. Okay, not a battalion, that was a joke. Something that only has 16 Mercs on a side would work though. How much longer before you determine that we have been abusing weapons all this time by shooting other Mercs with them? TacNet was one of the best features of Dust514, too bad, so sad. I think you misunderstand the intent of Active Scanners. They're not really meant to constantly illuminate everything for you all the time, as this removes a major chunk of tactical gameplay. Basically, in 1.8, if you want to be lighting up most of the enemy team all of the time, you'll need to be running GalLogi with double Active Scanners. And ya know what? I'm just fine with that. If you've created a suit that is very specialized into one specific task, then you should be really good at doing that one thing. That's kinda the point with Dust, right? Role based gameplay, and all that. Also, virtually any possible credibility a viewpoint of yours might've had was completely washed away when you used the term "real gamer" with utter sincerity. Just a note for the future. You don't have to run a double scanner Gal Logi to be successful, just need to have support in where to scan. If a scout relays info about troops then you can scan those troops for your squad. Without decent help multiple scanners will still struggle to pin people down. I love the changes to scanning, actually gives the scout a role beyond fast super weak guy. Now we just have to find a way to fix vehicle scanners.
jhon hartigan Maphia Clan Corporation 208	Posted - 2014.03.15 07:34:00 - [105] - Quote The cloak looks funny, I ll love it. What will the cloak Field skill do?
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 298	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:18:00 - [106] - Quote Nulldust wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Nulldust wrote: Only caldari logistics has the nanohive bonus? Frequent runs to depot for supply breaks team coodination and wrecks gameplay. Nanite supply should be tripled not reduced. Here's what I'd suggest: * Nanohive nanite supply x3. Logistics Role Bonus: 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment and +10% to nanohive max. nanites per level. Caldari Logistics Bonus: +15% to revived armor to nanite injector per level. It "wrecks" gameplay? I would argue that it encourages you to think more about where to place your hives, and not simply drop them all over the place. The Caldari get a bonus to their racial Equipment, just like every other Logi. Nanohives are already ubiquitously used in competitive play, just like Active Scanners. Why exactly would they need a buff? Active scanner and repair tool are nonconsumeable. As equipment they are OP in that sense compared with nanohive. That's the first reason to buff nanohive. Um, did you really just suggest that the Repair-Tool is OP? Like, really? Uplinks are consumable as well, as those underpowered somehow? Being consumable doesn't innately make something underpowered. How about grenades, while we're at it? Nulldust wrote: Second reason to buff nanohive is, nanohive should be the main means for resupply instead of drop uplink or respawn, for better gameplay. "Should be"? Says who? Why? What about buffing nanohives will produce "better" gameplay? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 99	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:38:00 - [107] - Quote I think drop uplinks base spawn count should be much less than 10 for standard and 20-25 for prototype. Now it will not stop from spamming uplinks, things can go even worse as logis will spam more and others continue to spawn as before. I'm sure base spawn count should be at least halved - 5 for standard and 10 for prototype uplinks. <[^_^]>
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 941	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:40:00 - [108] - Quote I've had some time to mull over the cloak mechanics. On the whole I like whats been done. Its not going to be something that's easy to use effectively and still a tool that requires skill to use. - Its easy to get caught in decloak (min 50% charge needed to cloak) - therefore your decloaked profile has to be considered. - Movement is a massive factor. Its not like other games with cloak where it'll just throw your aim off. Your a distinct blue outline - This limits the range that can be covered effectively. Getting from point to point on manus peak for instance will still take a lot of navigation to avoid fire. - Cloaked hacking is not an issue as taking an objective is a very obvious act. But a critical CRU? sounds like it opens up some interesting tactical options. - All of these mean the basic cloak (which is realistically the only one other suits might be able to fit) offers very few advantages. I really hope that this addition will make a change to our fits. Speed and total HP are slightly less of a consideration so it might allow us to open up options we couldn't really explore before. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:19:00 - [109] - Quote heavy commando + corner around doorway + shotgun + cloak = death oh boy ima have fun, hanging up my little logi boots for good and bustn out a can of insto deatho
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 818	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:31:00 - [110] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @RKKR Show me the video or post indicating that Judge said that or shut up. A hotfix is nice too but we all know too well that is not enough. I was not serious with that line...I just said that because your post contained nothing about equipment but you just singled out the vehicle part from my post which I said more for comparison reason. The changes in hives, reptools and uplinks just suck. The support role is even more passive spam (something IS complained about) and forget about it than before. A hotfix may not be enough (that's why I used the word temporary) but atleast it's better than the crap we have now. Enough about vehicles, what's your opinion about he changes in equipment and the logi role?

IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 264	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:35:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: Driftward wrote: This might be a problem....maybe. Admittedly there still is the alert that it's being hacked....but you're also straight invisible while standing still. Actually you are not straight invisible. If you have good vision you will spot some distortion - see this image from dev blog. :) I had no issues spotting something odd in front of me and shooting it ;) Umm...can you clarify this please? Because that image is the "1P" view for a cloaked, static merc. There is an image above it that is the "3P" view that someone else sees of a cloaked, static merc. Your wording sounds like you've seen this in action, and contradicts the images. Is there a visual indication of a cloaked, static hacker? Or is the 3P image plain wrong? I will assume 1P means 1st-party, and 3P means 3rd-party. Because using "person" would be confusing in an FPS. Fully cloaked, static, 3P view: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65896/1/3p_still_cloak.png Fully cloaked, static, 1P view: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65896/1/1p_still_cloak.png Some clarification would be most appreciated :)
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 264	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:38:00 - [112] - Quote Will aim-assist work on a cloaked suit? If the answer is no, that would add some nice tactical elements. Of course as a scout in the main, I am biased to surviving whilst running :-p
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 942	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:38:00 - [113] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: heavy commando + corner around doorway + shotgun + cloak = death oh boy ima have fun, hanging up my little logi boots for good and bustn out a can of insto deatho Pro Gal Com + Basc cloak = 110 CPU spare. is it really worth it for something even an Adv scanner will pick up (or even lvl 1 Gal + basic scanner). Hell my logi's suit scanners can pick that up "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 264	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:41:00 - [114] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: heavy commando + corner around doorway + shotgun + cloak = death oh boy ima have fun, hanging up my little logi boots for good and bustn out a can of insto deatho Pro Gal Com + Basc cloak = 110 CPU spare. is it really worth it for something even an Adv scanner will pick up (or even lvl 1 Gal + basic scanner). Hell my logi's suit scanners can pick that up This, plus, you can't stay cloaked. You will light up and give away your position.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 09:46:00 - [115] - Quote complex dampeners my young grasshoppers only proto scan shall see your hidden hidy hole and once thier around said corner all is too late for them ka boom goes bruce cambell's boomstick
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 943	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:01:00 - [116] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: complex dampeners my young grasshoppers only proto scan shall see your hidden hidy hole and once thier around said corner all is too late for them ka boom goes bruce cambell's boomstick Good luck pulling that off with my Pro Min Sentinel "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:09:00 - [117] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: complex dampeners my young grasshoppers only proto scan shall see your hidden hidy hole and once thier around said corner all is too late for them ka boom goes bruce cambell's boomstick Good luck pulling that off with my Pro Min Sentinel did you consider commandos get two light weapons i would not be limited to short range of shotgun dumb dumb scrambler rifle charged 1 hit kill lol well with nerf might take one charged shot and quick tat tat to kill your sentinel
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 0	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:16:00 - [118] - Quote and yes i can one hit kill heavys ^^^
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 943	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:29:00 - [119] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: complex dampeners my young grasshoppers only proto scan shall see your hidden hidy hole and once thier around said corner all is too late for them ka boom goes bruce cambell's boomstick Good luck pulling that off with my Pro Min Sentinel did you consider commandos get two light weapons i would not be limited to short range of shotgun dumb dumb scrambler rifle charged 1 hit kill lol well with nerf might take one charged shot and quick tat tat to kill your sentinel your purposely fitting the 2 weapons I get resistances to and no proficiency against my armour?? and no damage buff to the rifle on that suit Plus your limited to basic gear with that loadout and still very detectable while uncloaked (and 30secs is a short cloak so you can't get much done in that time) "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Cal Predine StarKnight Security 59	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:34:00 - [120] - Quote Well, we've all known for some time that the cloaking field was on its way - it opens enormous avenues for both creative gameplay and abuse. I'm not sure if I'm looking forward to it or dreading it, but based on typical player actions... The changes to scanners seem logical enough, and return some value to the concept of vehicle-based scanners. I hope the changes don't go too far and render the scanner worthless - Dust is already a much less cerebral game than many of us had hoped it would be. Completely removing infantry intelligence gathering from the game would really be another step in the wrong direction. I'm hoping for the best, though - scanners had become way too prevalent. I can't help feeling all the other changes are there to thwart the terrible lag problems which some players perceive to be related to deliberate equipment spam to induce client slowdown. While I applaud any and all actions to improve game performance, I'm far from convinced that equipment spam is the main cause of this effect, and looking at things purely logically, trying to tackle client-side slowdown when everyone is locked to pretty much the same client machine isn't really going to cure any inequities in gameplay, as it should affect everyone equally. It will be clear that the main differences between players will be their network situation, and anyone who has spent significant effort studying the lag problems will know that lag follows specific (consistently high-scoring) players around, and renders other players obsolete when they target them.. So, when are we going to see the dev blag about dealing with those problems? Because you can't balance gameplay when the engine is fundamentally broken, and all the shiny stuff in the world isn't going to keep even long-term friends of the Dust project like on-board when the gameplay is consistently painful because other players are being given an unbeatable edge by massively over-generous lag compensation. PS3 Slim - Hybrid hard drive with 8GB SSD - South Coast UK - Virgin media cable BB, 20Mbps down, 2Mbps up.



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