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Giving the Assault Suit a More Defined Role Post-1.8

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Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 264	Posted - 2014.03.08 08:33:00 - [1] - Quote With the new dropsuit stats released for 1.8, people are worrying more than ever that the Assault suit will be heavily overshadowed by other suits. We're all aware of the current problem with Slayer Logis, and while I'm still greatly excited for it, 1.8 doesn't really seem to be solving this problem. It feels like the Assault suit hasn't really had a defined role to fill for a while. So I got to thinking: what should the designated role of Assault suits be? For a good starting place, let's check the in-game description: Quote: The Assault dropsuit is a versatile front-line combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility and sufficient equipment hard points for mission-specific customizations. Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a moment's notice. Its ability to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear makes it the most adaptable suit on the battlefield. So, as has been said time and time again, it seems the basic idea of the Assault suit is to truly be the "jack of all trades, master of none". So it should be the least niche suit; able to perform many different roles effectively, but not really excelling at any one. But I'd like to take this a step farther, specifically analyzing this line: Quote: Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a moment's notice. This seems to imply that the Assault suit is also good at switching locations quickly, as well as being prepared for many different scenarios. From this, we could extrapolate that Assault suits are meant to be very good at dictating when and where their engagements happen, and always being able to switch to a more advantageous position during engagements. Given all this, I've come up with this as a more solid designated role: The Adaptable Shock Trooper. Able to move swiftly both between locations and their role on the battlefield. The suit with unmatched flexibility, also able to get in quick and hit the enemy hard and fast when need-be. So, now that we've got an idea, how do we change the current Assault suit to fill this role? Step 1: Modules- In order to truly be the most flexible and adaptable suit, I believe that the Assault suit needs to have the most module slots of any suit. If this weren't true before, I'd say it definitely is with 1.8 on the rise, and all the other suits finding specific niches to fill. In order to avoid raising the overall power scale of the game, I'd recommend lowering all Logi suits' total slot count by 1, and then raising the Assault suits to have 1 more than Logis overall. Having the most modules available means you can customize your suit for whatever specific scenario you want, or make some hodgepodge in between specific specializations. This reinforces the flexibility aspect of the suit's role. Step 2: Bonuses- So let's take a quick look at the current 1.8 Assault suit bonuses: Quote: Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. The overall idea of these bonuses seems to be allowing the Assault suit to spend more time shooting, and less time having to worry about ammo conservation/heat build-up/reloading/etc. This would seem to fit in nicely with the shock trooper aspect of the suit, allowing you to keep on the move and keep hitting targets from different sides without having to stop to worry about your ammo situation. However, while I feel that the Minmatar and Amarr bonuses achieve this quite feel, I have some discrepancies with the other two. The Caldari bonus, while in some sense reducing the time spent not firing, doesn't actually really allow more continuous fire though, or allow you to more effectively dictate where your fights are happening. I would prefer either a reduction to the charge-up time of railgun weaponry (Note: this option also requires an increase of the RR charge-up time to at least 0.5 seconds, which I believe needs to happen anyway) or an increase to the effective ranges of railgun weaponry (with a correspondingly less steep falloff, at least to the effective range). Either of these would allow the Caldari Assault to focus less on ammo conservation, as well as better controlling fights. The Gallente bonus isn't terrible. It should effectively allow you to hit with more of your shots, meaning that you'll have to fire less overall. In some sense, this would mean that more continuous fire within one clip is possible. In addition, the bonus affecting your hip-fire accuracy reinforces the mobile shock trooper role, actively encouraging you to fire from the hip while staying on the move. So, yea like I said, not terrible. Although I'm also not sure it's necessarily the best. If anyone has a better suggestion, please post it below. Anyways, that's it. Gee...that ended up longer than I expected. So, what's everyone think? TL;DR: Assault suits need a more defined role, I like the idea of them being the Adaptable Shock Trooper. To encourage their flexibility and adaptability, they need to have the most module slots of any suit. GÇó Their bonuses also need to reinforce this role, allowing the Assault suit to fire continuously without worrying about ammo conservation. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4942	Posted - 2014.03.08 08:55:00 - [2] - Quote Da. *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1524	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:02:00 - [3] - Quote The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche)
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 290	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:05:00 - [4] - Quote I agree with the slot layout idea, it would give Assaults their Slayer role back. Another way to do it would be to switch the High/Low slot layout between Logi's and Assaults. Although I would drop one Low slot for the Caldari; it should be 5 Highs 3 Lows.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4944	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:06:00 - [5] - Quote Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is ** Fixed. 1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole** -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 271	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:09:00 - [6] - Quote Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) That's a very valid point about the bonus only really affecting one weapon. Like I said, I'm not really sure it's the best possible bonus. But unfortunately I have yet to think of a better one. Of course keep in mind that the Amarr bonus only affects two weapons, as does the Minmatar (and one of those is a sidearm). I think this is more of a problem with limited weapons available. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4946	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:13:00 - [7] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Of course keep in mind that the Amarr bonus only affects two weapons, as does the Minmatar (and one of those is a sidearm). I think this is more of a problem with limited weapons available. but it Amarr? But they has lazors I can has plasma buff? *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Spartykins NECROM0NGERS The CORVOS 47	Posted - 2014.03.08 09:30:00 - [8] - Quote How about the Caldari bonus becomes reduction of spool for rail-based weapons? Gallente seems like it could work well with the reload bonus, not so much with the AR, but other things such as the PLC/shotgun. Maybe increase range of plasma weapons? (Insert witty phrase here)
HYENAKILLER X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 657	Posted - 2014.03.08 11:06:00 - [9] - Quote Run gallente assaults like scouts and you'll be happy. Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1530	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:52:00 - [10] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is **** Fixed. I just didn't want to accept it! Truth hurts!

Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1530	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:55:00 - [11] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) That's a very valid point about the bonus only really affecting one weapon. Like I said, I'm not really sure it's the best possible bonus. But unfortunately I have yet to think of a better one. Of course keep in mind that the Amarr bonus only affects two weapons, as does the Minmatar (and one of those is a sidearm). I think this is more of a problem with limited weapons available. Yup. The Scrambler Pistol should be more like the Ion Pistol. Have the charge and overheating. And the Ion Pistol can just shoot really rapidly without overheating like the assault Scrambler Pistol, but with more ammo.
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 495	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:58:00 - [12] - Quote Minmatar Assault is the most likely to go extinct, more modules would help greatly for the assault suits. +1 like After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 307	Posted - 2014.03.08 16:59:00 - [13] - Quote Suits are not RP, they have bonuses, but roleplay is what you do, check my idea. Role based bonuses for roleplay Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator BHD since MAG
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1997	Posted - 2014.03.08 17:20:00 - [14] - Quote That's the chromosome description when Assaults had 2 equipment. None of that is true anymore and I doubt it will be true again. The Commando is the new Assault and the Assault is a faster commando. For the Federation!
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 495	Posted - 2014.03.08 17:21:00 - [15] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: That's the chromosome description when Assaults had 2 equipment. None of that is true anymore and I doubt it will be true again. The Commando is the new Assault and the Assault is a faster commando. But if we have a few more modules...... After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 389	Posted - 2014.03.08 17:45:00 - [16] - Quote +1 on the Assaults having more module slots than Logis. I think they should homogenize the Medium suits, slot wise, and I mean all the slots. Right now Proto Logis have- A:13, C:14, G:14, and M:14 while the Proto Assaults have A:10, C:11, G:11, and M:11 total slots. That averages out to 12 total slots on Proto suits, which I think would be great. The Assaults would have more modules in exchange the Logis have their Equipment slots. So, in my theoritcal world, which I'm sure someone else has come up with, the Logis would look kinda like this: Logistics Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-3 Low Slots 3 (Of course, If we make them more Armor centric, lose at least a High-slot for another Low, perhaps change two, giving it 1 High and 5 Lows, this would also differentiate it from the Gallente more than the sidearm) Logistics Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3 Logistics Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-2 Low Slots-4 Logistics Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-4 Low Slots-2 (I know that's a major change to the Minmatar, if we want to maximize speed, maybe a 3-3 split would work better, again, these are just rough sketches.) Likewise, the Assaults would look like this: Assault Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1 High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (Again, if we make them more Armor focused, instead of balanced, then a 3 High, 5 Low could be fun, though differentiating from Gallente would be difficult, unless we give one of them 2 equipment slots ) Early post, still writing... xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1997	Posted - 2014.03.08 17:47:00 - [17] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: +1 on the Assaults having more module slots than Logis. I think they should homogenize the Medium suits, slot wise, and I mean all the slots. Right now Proto Logis have- A:13, C:14, G:14, and M:14 while the Proto Assaults have A:10, C:11, G:11, and M:11 total slots. That averages out to 12 total slots on Proto suits, which I think would be great. The Assaults would have more modules in exchange the Logis have their Equipment slots. So, in my theoritcal world, which I'm sure someone else has come up with, the Logis would look kinda like this: Logistics Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-3 Low Slots 3 (Of course, If we make them more Armor centric, lose at least a High-slot for another Low, perhaps change two, giving it 1 High and 5 Lows, this would also differentiate it from the Gallente more than the sidearm) Logistics Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3 Logistics Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-2 Low Slots-4 Logistics Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-4 Low Slots-2 (I know that's a major change to the Minmatar, if we want to maximize speed, maybe a 3-3 split would work better, again, these are just rough sketches.) Likewise, the Assaults would look like this: Assault Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1 High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (Again, if we make them more Armor focused, instead of balanced, then a 3 High, 5 Low could be fun, though differentiating from Gallente would be difficult, unless we give one of them 2 equipment slots ) Early post, still writing... Give us our speed and sidearm back then. For the Federation!
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 151	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:03:00 - [18] - Quote [/quote] The Caldari bonus, while in some sense reducing the time spent not firing, doesn't actually really allow more continuous fire though, or allow you to more effectively dictate where your fights are happening. I would prefer either a reduction to the charge-up time of railgun weaponry (Note: this option also requires an increase of the RR charge-up time to at least 0.5 seconds, which I believe needs to happen anyway) or an increase to the effective ranges of railgun weaponry (with a correspondingly less steep falloff, at least to the effective range). Either of these would allow the Caldari Assault to focus less on ammo conservation, as well as better controlling fights. TL;DR: Assault suits need a more defined role, I like the idea of them being the Adaptable Shock Trooper. To encourage their flexibility and adaptability, they need to have the most module slots of any suit. GÇó Their bonuses also need to reinforce this role, allowing the Assault suit to fire continuously without worrying about ammo conservation. [/quote] If the Caldari bonus is changed to reduce the rail rifle charge up, making it's charge up time .5 sec, then respectively the Magsec SMG should also have its .3 charge up time to 0.6. However this would render using the RR or Magsec on other suits pretty difficult to use, you would have a better chance knifing someone in the time it it takes to charge up on say a Gallente Assault. The bonus is a good idea, but I don't think it would work, because not only does it make RR and Magsecs hard to use on other suits, but also if CCP were to make the charge up time below .5 for RR and below .6 for Magsec, then the bonus would be too good for the Caldari Assaults. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 854	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:10:00 - [19] - Quote Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 389	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:23:00 - [20] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. No, that should be a grenadier suit specialization after tiericide happens. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!

Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 294	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:37:00 - [21] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot. Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines.
Heimdallr69 Ancient Ecchi 1794	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:38:00 - [22] - Quote I like the ideas, the cal assault bonus blows lmao honestly I'd take anything over reloading... I don't miss often so faster reloading doesn't effect me one bit...maybe all assault bonuses should increase their faction weapons rof or DMG.. Hell maybe even range tho the minmatar and amarr bonuses are good. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 230	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:41:00 - [23] - Quote I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea. The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout. Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was. I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance. Sage /thread
Balamob SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 9	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:44:00 - [24] - Quote +1
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:53:00 - [25] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot. Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines. It does to some extent, especially with 1.8 changes. For example, the ability to carry a Mag Sec with a ScR gives the assault more flexibility to deal with both shield and armored tanked opponents. How does 1 extra slot make that big a difference in versatility? Anyway, if I have this right you want to keep current speed advantage, starting HP advantage, take one slot off of the logi, and give it to the assault and call it balance? LOL sorry, but no. What I cannot fathom about these forums is, if you think the logi is a more versatile suit, and that's what you want in a suit why not skill into logi suits? No one is stopping you. It wouldn't have anything to do with wanting to make one's particular load out choice OP would it. Assaults already are as described jack of all trades suits. Medium starting HP, medium speed, medium slot numbers, medium everything. They are the do just about everything adequately role of the battlefield and thus I think working as intended. I think it would be cool if they could carry a 2nd grenade type but otherwise think they are just fine. And BTW I am skilled to level 5 in Minmatar assault, one of the tougher assault suits to play. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:55:00 - [26] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea. The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout. Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was. I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance. The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:57:00 - [27] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I like the ideas, the cal assault bonus blows lmao honestly I'd take anything over reloading... I don't miss often so faster reloading doesn't effect me one bit...maybe all assault bonuses should increase their faction weapons rof or DMG.. Hell maybe even range tho the minmatar and amarr bonuses are good. Agreed that the new Cal assault bonus sucks. A reduction to hybrid rail charge up time would have been cool but probably OP. Reduction to shield recharge delay might have been decent. Heck I would have taken the 2% to shield extenders per level over the reload bonus. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:58:00 - [28] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea. The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout. Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was. I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance. The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. They are if you don't completely suck and assault is still found on the battlefield in at least equal numbers to logi suits but their are multiple factors that go into that. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 231	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:04:00 - [29] - Quote Hagintora wrote: The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. Read the first line of my post, as you seemed to not have read it. I point out that med suits slots need to be reworked. I also posted why, and how this would create balance. I am a logi and am saying that us logis should lose slots to equal the assaults. This in it self implies that I see the issue of the imbalance as it currently stands and I have proposed a well thought out solution. Pleases make sure you comprehend someones post before commenting on it. Sage /thread
Waiyu Ren seeker of the path 46	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:07:00 - [30] - Quote Nothing new to add, just recombining other peoples posts into a blob of fantasy stats that tickle my fancy: Both medium suits have equal hp, speed, and total slot count (weapons/grenades included). Assault focuses on pure combat roles: More modules, more weapon slots, etc. *Logistics focuses on combat support: Less modules/weapons, more equipment slots. at basic level: Gal assault: H 1, L 2, LW, SA, G, E 1. Gal Logistics: H 0, L2, LW, G, E 3. If i'm not mistaken that's exactly the way it is now, except for the speed/armour being equal, it just doesn't follow through as you ascend the tiers. Shouting doesn't make your opinion seem more valid, it just makes you seem more annoying.

Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:08:00 - [31] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Hagintora wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot. Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines. It does to some extent, especially with 1.8 changes. For example, the ability to carry a Mag Sec with a ScR gives the assault more flexibility to deal with both shield and armored tanked opponents. How does 1 extra slot make that big a difference in versatility? Anyway, if I have this right you want to keep current speed advantage, starting HP advantage, take one slot off of the logi, and give it to the assault and call it balance? LOL sorry, but no. What I cannot fathom about these forums is, if you think the logi is a more versatile suit, and that's what you want in a suit why not skill into logi suits? No one is stopping you. It wouldn't have anything to do with wanting to make one's particular load out choice OP would it. Assaults already are as described jack of all trades suits. Medium starting HP, medium speed, medium slot numbers, medium everything. They are the do just about everything adequately role of the battlefield and thus I think working as intended. I think it would be cool if they could carry a 2nd grenade type but otherwise think they are just fine. And BTW I am skilled to level 5 in Minmatar assault, one of the tougher assault suits to play. One slot is the difference between suit tiers (at least for the Scout). One slot is the difference between two Shield Extenders (145.2 HP's) and three (217.8). Or that extra repper. Or Profile Dampener. One slot is difference between winning and losing. One slot is the reason that people complain about Proto stomping.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:19:00 - [32] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Hagintora wrote: The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. Read the first line of my post, as you seemed to not have read it. I point out that med suits slots need to be reworked. I also posted why, and how this would create balance. I am a logi and am saying that us logis should lose slots to equal the assaults. This in it self implies that I see the issue of the imbalance as it currently stands and I have proposed a well thought out solution. Pleases make sure you comprehend someones post before commenting on it. You said that if Logi's and Assaults had equal slot layouts, that the Assault would outshine the Logi. You said that if 1 slot were taken away from the Logi that it would be combat ineffective. These two statements imply that both suits are currently balanced with one another, hence, my comment.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 393	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:21:00 - [33] - Quote Waiyu Ren wrote: Nothing new to add, just recombining other peoples posts into a blob of fantasy stats that tickle my fancy: Both medium suits have equal hp, speed, and total slot count (weapons/grenades included). Assault focuses on pure combat roles: More modules, more weapon slots, etc. Logistics focuses on combat support: Less modules/weapons, more equipment slots. at basic level: Gal assault: H 1, L 2, LW, SA, G, E 1. Gal Logistics: H 0, L2, LW, G, E 3. If i'm not mistaken that's exactly the way it is now, except for the speed/armour being equal, it just doesn't follow through as you ascend the tiers: Gal logi increases its module slots by 3, and assault does the same by 2 at advanced? Upon reflection, and adding to your simplification of my post and others, I would go with an 8-10-12 slot total for Basic-Advanced-Proto for simplicity's sake. Plus, my initial thought of 6-9-12 made Basic suits really, really *****. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines 523	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:28:00 - [34] - Quote The purpose of Assault is to be an All-Around Soldier. More slots would mean the ability to be better than Specialized suits in their Niche. Assault suits are not supposed to be "I choose any sepcialization when i want". They are supposed to have no drawbacks and no advandages, which is already in. "flexibility" means "All-Around" Not "Jack of all trades". You search a "specific" purpose on suits which is supposed to have no specific purpose but to be ready to face any situation (I said "face" not "excel".) Normal that you don't find it. You see the diffrence ? You all want a "Jack of lal trade" suit which is stupid. An Assault is : Average Ehp. Average Speed. Average Firepower. Average Slots. Logi is : Low ehp. (this is base ehp) Low Speed. Low Firepower. (No sidearms exept Amarr,but he's even slower) High Slots. Scout is : Very low ehp. Very high speed. Average Firepower. Average Slots. Commandos : High ehp. Very Low speed. Very High firepower. Very Low slots. Sentinel : Very High ehp. Very low speed. High firepower. Low slots. You see ?
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 4235	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:34:00 - [35] - Quote Definitely shock If you ever want to know what the intended roles are, check out the premade fits. They're one of the subtle ways CCP tries to communicate to us, just like how special events tell us what they want to see more of, presumably for data-gathering purposes. I am your scan error.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 232	Posted - 2014.03.08 19:43:00 - [36] - Quote Hagintora wrote: You said that if Logi's and Assaults had equal slot layouts, that the Assault would outshine the Logi. You said that if 1 slot were taken away from the Logi that it would be combat ineffective. These two statements imply that both suits are currently balanced with one another, hence, my comment. I can see how my first comment might have misled you. My first post assumes the reader is tracking the OP, and I was talking in response to having one less slot than the assault. I once again want to apologize for not being clear enough. However, your first comment response to me was on the point about the current build, not taking in to acount I was talking about a fix for post 1.8. Your second response does nothing but point out I had some bad wording,and over all is nothing more than you being a troll. This is apparent by your lack of contributing to the debate, and lack of forming any rebutal. There for, any further response on your part will be ignored. Sage /thread
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:10:00 - [37] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Hagintora wrote: You said that if Logi's and Assaults had equal slot layouts, that the Assault would outshine the Logi. You said that if 1 slot were taken away from the Logi that it would be combat ineffective. These two statements imply that both suits are currently balanced with one another, hence, my comment. I can see how my first comment might have misled you. My first post assumes the reader is tracking the OP, and I was talking in response to having one less slot than the assault. I once again want to apologize for not being clear enough. However, your first comment response to me was on the point about the current build, not taking in to acount I was talking about a fix for post 1.8. Your second response does nothing but point out I had some bad wording,and over all is nothing more than you being a troll. This is apparent by your lack of contributing to the debate, and lack of forming any rebutal. There for, any further response on your part will be ignored. There was no troll intended, and I apologize as well if it came off that way. You are correct that I did assume I knew what you were refferring to, clearly I did not. Now that I am aware, I would say that I agree with you. One slot counts for a lot in this game, and if its loss makes the Logi ineffective, then having both suits be equal is the only logical way to go. Again, I apologize. Trolling is not something that I do.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:33:00 - [38] - Quote It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
HYENAKILLER X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 657	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:40:00 - [39] - Quote I would give assaults damage bonus. I thought the rate of fire/damage bonus was an amazing idea. Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 295	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:45:00 - [40] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already Mordecai and Doshniel also make fair a point that I had not considered. Logi's are both slower and have fewer EHP than Assaults. This should really be adjusted, as speed and HP should be proportional. If the Logi's are meant to be slower then they need higher hp's to compensate. The reverse should go for Assaults as well. If that happens then maybe it could be justified that Logi's have fewer slots than Assaults. Until then, I retract all previuos statements to the contrary.

Patrick57 5845	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:52:00 - [41] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: With tha freshly smoked up dropsuit stats busted up fo' 1.8, playas is worryin mo' than eva dat tha Assault suit is ghon be heavily overshadowed by other suits, n' you can put dat on yo' toast. We all aware of tha current problem wit Slayer Logis, n' while I be still pimped outly buckwild fo' it, 1.8 don't straight-up seem ta be solvin dis problem. Well shiiiit, it feels like tha Assault suit aint straight-up had a thugged-out defined role ta fill fo' a while. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So I gots ta thinking: what tha ** tha should tha designated role of Assault suits be? For a phat startin place, letz check tha in-game description: Quote: Da Assault dropsuit be a versatile front-line combat suit dat combines pimpin protection, phat mobilitizzle n' sufficient shiznit hard points fo' mission-specific customizations. Assault dropsuits is intended fo' standard combat operations or dem up in which objectives is likely ta chizzle at a momentz notice. Its mobilitizzle ta carry anythang from lil' small-ass arms n' explosives ta heavy anti-vehicle munitions n' deployable support gear make it da most thugged-out adaptable suit on tha battlefield. So, as has been holla'd time n' time again, it seems tha basic scam of tha Assault suit is ta truly be tha "jack of all trades, masta of none". Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So it should be tha least niche suit; able ta big-ass up nuff different rolez effectively yo, but not straight-up excellin at any one. But I'd like ta take dis a step farther, specifically analyzin dis line: Quote: Assault dropsuits is intended fo' standard combat operations or dem up in which objectives is likely ta chizzle at a momentz notice. This seems ta imply dat tha Assault suit be also phat at switchin locations quickly, as well as bein prepared fo' nuff different scenarios. From this, we could extrapolate dat Assault suits is meant ta be straight-up phat at dictatin when n' where they engagements happen, n' always bein able ta switch ta a mo' advantageous posizzle durin engagements, n' you can put dat on yo' toast. Given all this, I've come up wit dis as a mo' solid designated role: Da Adaptable Shock Trooper n' shiznit fo' realz. Able ta move swiftly both between locations n' they role on tha battlefield. Y'all KNOW dat , muthafucka! Da suit wit unmatched flexibility, also able ta git up in quick n' hit tha enemy hard n' fast when need-be. So, now dat we've gots a idea, how tha do we chizzle tha current Assault suit ta fill dis role? Step 1: Modules- In order ta truly be da most thugged-out flexible n' adaptable suit, I believe dat tha Assault suit need ta have da most thugged-out module slotz of any suit. If dis weren't legit before, I'd say it definitely is wit 1.8 on tha rise, n' all tha other suits findin specific niches ta fill. In order ta avoid raisin tha overall juice scale of tha game, I'd recommend lowerin all Logi suits' total slot count by 1, n' then raisin tha Assault suits ta have 1 mo' than Logis overall yo. Havin da most thugged-out modulez available means you can customize yo' suit fo' whatever specific scenario you want, or cook up some fuckin hodgepodge up in between specific specializations. This reinforces tha flexibilitizzle aspect of tha suitz role. Step 2: Bonuses- So letz take a quick peep tha current 1.8 Assault suit bonuses: Quote: Assault [5% reduction ta PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% ta reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction ta hybrid - blasta light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion n' kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% ta projectile light/sidearm clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction ta laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Da overall scam of these bonuses seems ta be allowin tha Assault suit ta spend mo' time blasting, n' less time havin ta worry bout ammo conservation/heat build-up/reloading/etc. This would seem ta fit up in sickly wit tha shock trooper aspect of tha suit, allowin you ta keep on tha move n' keep hittin targets from different sides without havin ta stop ta worry bout yo' ammo thang. But dat shiznit yo, tha word on tha street is dat while I feel dat tha Minmatar n' Amarr bonuses bust dis like feel, I have some discrepancies wit tha other two. Da Caldari bonus, while up in some sense reducin tha time dropped not firing, don't straight-up straight-up allow mo' continuous fire though, or allow you ta mo' effectively dictate where yo' fights is happening. I would prefer either a reduction ta tha charge-up time of railgun weaponry (Note: dis option also requires a increase of tha RR charge-up time ta at least 0.5 seconds, which I believe need ta happen anyway) or a increase ta tha effectizzle rangez of railgun weaponry (with a cold-ass lil correspondingly less steep falloff, at least ta tha effectizzle range). Either of these would allow tha Caldari Assault ta focus less on ammo conservation, as well as mo' betta controllin fights. Da Gallente bonus aint **. Well shiiiit, it should effectively allow you ta hit wit mo' of yo' shots, meanin dat you gonna gotta fire less overall. In some sense, dis would mean dat mo' continuous fire within one clip is possible. In addition, tha bonus affectin yo' hip-fire accuracy reinforces tha mobile shock trooper role, actively encouragin you ta fire from tha hip while stayin on tha move. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So, yea like I holla'd, not ** fo' realz. Although I be also not shizzle itz necessarily da bomb. If mah playas has a funky-ass mo' betta suggestion, please post it below. Anyways, thatz dat . Gee...that ended up longer than I expected. Y'all KNOW dat **, muthafucka! This type'a shiznit happens all tha time. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So, whatz mah playas think? Fixed, have a good day.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 859	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:55:00 - [42] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already Mordecai and Doshniel also make fair a point that I had not considered. Logi's are both slower and have fewer EHP than Assaults. This should really be adjusted, as speed and HP should be proportional. If the Logi's are meant to be slower then they need higher hp's to compensate. The reverse should go for Assaults as well. If that happens then maybe it could be justified that Logi's have fewer slots than Assaults. Until then, I retract all previuos statements to the contrary. Rational discussion and give and take is not allowed on the internets, especially not these forums buddy Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
echo47 Minmatar Republic 218	Posted - 2014.03.08 21:13:00 - [43] - Quote So if the ideas propsed are implemeted at some point should we get a respec? I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 284	Posted - 2014.03.09 05:43:00 - [44] - Quote There's been some interesting points brought up in this thread. Mainly about the balance between Assaults and Logis. Having thought about it more in-depth for a bit, I've come to belief that Logis and Assaults should have the same total slot count, and by that I mean including module slots, weapon slots, equipment slots, etc. Of course Logis will have more equipment, so Assaults will end up with more module slots anyway. Once this is done, give Logis slightly more base HP than Assaults, while giving Assaults slightly more base mobility than Logis. I think this would keep them both very well balanced. After looking at some specific numbers, I'll probably go ahead and some of this to the OP. So now the related question, one I'd enjoy several answers for: Are all slots created equal? Certainly it could be argued that a Light Weapon slot is more valuable than a simple Module slot. Of course all Logis and Assaults get a Light Weapon Slot anyway, so that's easily balanced. But with things like Sidearms, Grenades, and Equipment, it can get a little less clear cut. Personally, I wouldn't mind just treating all the non-Light Weapon slots as equal, but what does everyone else think? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 191	Posted - 2014.03.09 22:16:00 - [45] - Quote What if assault suits had access to jump packs like actual shock troopers. Similar to scouts they get a hefty bonus to fitting so it works best with their own suit. Breakdown of suits Light Scout = Stealth, cloak specialist Pilots = Vehicles specialist Medium Assault = Generalist, jet pack trooper Logistics = Equipment specialist, field medic Heavy Sentinel = Mobile tank, heavy weapon specialist Commando = Damage dealer, dual light weapon specialist ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 286	Posted - 2014.03.10 02:49:00 - [46] - Quote Outer Raven wrote: What if assault suits had access to jump packs like actual shock troopers. Which uh, actual shock troopers are you referring to? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Outer Raven WarRavens League of Infamy 192	Posted - 2014.03.10 03:27:00 - [47] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Outer Raven wrote: What if assault suits had access to jump packs like actual shock troopers. Which uh, actual shock troopers are you referring to? By actual I mean fictional, an by fictional I mean Star Wars, guess I didn't make it obvious enough...... ___-öGûêGûêGêƒ________________ GûêGûêGûêGòÜGûêa»½GòáGûê Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ Gûæ GûÆ PEW ¯¯GùÑGò¥GûêGûêGùñ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 286	Posted - 2014.03.10 04:36:00 - [48] - Quote So I put some more thought into this issue and did some math, specifically looking at Logi vs. Assault layout. As I said before, I'd like to see both suits have the same total number of slots at each tier, to keep them well balanced. And of course I'd like to see Assaults get the most module slots of any suit, but still think that Logis should be just under them in that regard. So let's look at some existing Logi suits, the Minmatar and Gallente, at PRO. They both have similar slot layouts, so this should be a good starting point. Now, figuring that the Light Weapon slot, Grenade slot, and first Equipment slot cancel out when comparing to the Assaults (since Assault suits get these as well), both of these suits have 11 "extra" slots (8 H/L, 3 E). To keep the overall power scale of the game from rising, let's take away one of their module slots, bringing them to 10 total extra slots. So both the Gallente and Minmatar Logis would have 7 High/Low slots, and 4 Equipment at PRO, of course still retaining their Light Weapon and Grenade slots. Now we can use this same setup to figure out the other Logis' slot layouts. The Amarr Logi at PRO has one less Equipment slot, but gains a Sidearm slot, so it should keep the same 7 module slots. The Caldari Logi has neither the extra Equipment or Sidearm, so it should get 8 module slots (alternatively, the Caldari Logi could just be given this extra Equipment and have it's module slots at 7 like the rest). So all Logis keep the same pattern of 10 "extra' slots. And at last we can get back to the Assault suits. Assuming all other suit stats are equal, Assaults and Logis should both have the same total number of slots available. So Assaults will need the same 10 extra slots. Assaults get a Sidearm slot, so that leaves them with 9 module slots to make up that 10 extra. Personally, I'm actually not a big fan of this option. First of all, 9 module slots seems to be getting a little out of hand, especially when every racial variant would be getting them. This would also severely hamper diversity between the racial variants, as every suit's slot layout would have to be either 5/4 or 4/5 for H/L. So, to work around this, I suggest instead giving PRO Assault suits 8 module slots across the board, as well as slight stat buffs to compensate for the lost slot. In my OP I mentioned that I'd like for Logis to have higher HP but worse mobility when compared to Assaults. I'd very much like for this to stay the case, so I'd recommend adding more to the mobility based stats (speed, max stamina, stamina regen) than to base HP when taking this last step. Basically, no matter what, I think Logis should always have higher base HP than their Assault counterparts. Ok, hopefully this all made sense. If not, questions? Thoughts? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 403	Posted - 2014.03.10 06:19:00 - [49] - Quote If we add midslots and open up highs to weapons it simplifies things a bit. Max of 8 slots You can have high slot mods or use the equipment, weapon, grenade hardpoints. Shields go back to mid, speed mods move up to mids. Caldari 4-7-3 Amarr 4-2-8 Min 4-5-5 Galente 4-3-7 The four highs can be used as you want but you get 1 main hard point, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment. Use a gun and 3 high mods, or use gun sidearm equipment and trade a grenade for a high slot mod. whatever you can think of. Logis would have 5-7 highs, with 3-4 equipment hardpoints. You don't have to run a gun even. Amarr get their heavy armor focus, minmatar are versatile, gallente favor armor, caldari favor shields. Everyones happy, just gotta fix the mod layouts, we can play with them as needed. Now, we add resistances in lows obviously. Damage mods get they're racial designation and go low. one mod for laser damage, one for projectile, etc, etc. can go back to 10% at proto to help against damage resists. Scale to ccps tastes. Also standard frames get two bonus. None of this no role specialization garbage. Then assaults get two bonuses based on their medium skill, and two based on assault. Weapons get rebalanced to account for more health and more robust bonuses.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.10 09:28:00 - [50] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: If we add midslots and open up highs to weapons it simplifies things a bit. Max of 8 slots You can have high slot mods or use the equipment, weapon, grenade hardpoints. Shields go back to mid, speed mods move up to mids. Caldari 4-7-3 Amarr 4-2-8 Min 4-5-5 Galente 4-3-7 The four highs can be used as you want but you get 1 main hard point, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment. Use a gun and 3 high mods, or use gun sidearm equipment and trade a grenade for a high slot mod. whatever you can think of. Logis would have 5-7 highs, with 3-4 equipment hardpoints. You don't have to run a gun even. Amarr get their heavy armor focus, minmatar are versatile, gallente favor armor, caldari favor shields. Everyones happy, just gotta fix the mod layouts, we can play with them as needed. Now, we add resistances in lows obviously. Damage mods get they're racial designation and go low. one mod for laser damage, one for projectile, etc, etc. can go back to 10% at proto to help against damage resists. Scale to ccps tastes. Also standard frames get two bonus. None of this no role specialization garbage. Then assaults get two bonuses based on their medium skill, and two based on assault. Weapons get rebalanced to account for more health and more robust bonuses. to clarify on assault bonuses. If I'm level 5 medium and level 3 assault. I get 5% to A and B per medium level I get 5% to C and 4% to D per assault A+25% B+25% C+15% D+12% Standard medium suits would get they're own unique a and b but no c or d. What those letters actually represent varies on a suit to suit basis and by race. I don't mean to be rude, but that was far from simple. I don't play Eve, for the record. And while I have nothing against borrowing aspects of Eve if they'll work well for Dust, I don't believe that just copy and pasting every mechanic is necessarily the way to go. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1595	Posted - 2014.03.10 09:37:00 - [51] - Quote I will add this to the discussion: - Assault needs 2 equipment slots. - Assault suit needs something like a jetpack making them the fastest moving suit over long distances. One equipment slot will be used to fit the jetpack. - Assault suit needs CPU and PG. Dont think more slots will solve the problems we see today. Drop it like its hat.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 404	Posted - 2014.03.10 09:48:00 - [52] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: If we add midslots and open up highs to weapons it simplifies things a bit. Max of 8 slots You can have high slot mods or use the equipment, weapon, grenade hardpoints. Shields go back to mid, speed mods move up to mids. Caldari 4-7-3 Amarr 4-2-8 Min 4-5-5 Galente 4-3-7 The four highs can be used as you want but you get 1 main hard point, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment. Use a gun and 3 high mods, or use gun sidearm equipment and trade a grenade for a high slot mod. whatever you can think of. Logis would have 5-7 highs, with 3-4 equipment hardpoints. You don't have to run a gun even. Amarr get their heavy armor focus, minmatar are versatile, gallente favor armor, caldari favor shields. Everyones happy, just gotta fix the mod layouts, we can play with them as needed. Now, we add resistances in lows obviously. Damage mods get they're racial designation and go low. one mod for laser damage, one for projectile, etc, etc. can go back to 10% at proto to help against damage resists. Scale to ccps tastes. Also standard frames get two bonus. None of this no role specialization garbage. Then assaults get two bonuses based on their medium skill, and two based on assault. Weapons get rebalanced to account for more health and more robust bonuses. to clarify on assault bonuses. If I'm level 5 medium and level 3 assault. I get 5% to A and B per medium level I get 5% to C and 4% to D per assault A+25% B+25% C+15% D+12% Standard medium suits would get they're own unique a and b but no c or d. What those letters actually represent varies on a suit to suit basis and by race. I don't mean to be rude, but that was far from simple. I don't play Eve, for the record. And while I have nothing against borrowing aspects of Eve if they'll work well for Dust, I don't believe that just copy and pasting every mechanic is necessarily the way to go. I meant more so that it's simpler to use what we know works than try to salvage a system that doesn't appear to be working. What dust is doing right now is basically turning everything on it's head. amarr can't armor tank like they should, minmatar say their suits are useless. This alleviates much of that and opens the game up to the depth an mmofps within eve should have. Trying to cram it into 2 groups of 5 is much harder than working with the 8-8-8 system. at least I think so. It adds more variety among suits also. There's still chunks missing and if were gonna fill it in and add new stuff to compliment fps mechanics 5-5 just doesn't work. There's not enough room.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:21:00 - [53] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I will add this to the discussion: - Assault needs 2 equipment slots. - Assault suit needs something like a jetpack making them the fastest moving suit over long distances. One equipment slot will be used to fit the jetpack. - Assault suit needs CPU and PG. Dont think more slots will solve the problems we see today. I don't really think asking for costly new features is the most efficient or even just the best way to balance Assault suits, especially when thinking realistically. Aside from that, is using one specific piece of Equipment really a solid role? Auris Lionesse wrote: I don't mean to be rude, but that was far from simple. I don't play Eve, for the record. And while I have nothing against borrowing aspects of Eve if they'll work well for Dust, I don't believe that just copy and pasting every mechanic is necessarily the way to go. I meant more so that it's simpler to use what we know works than try to salvage a system that doesn't appear to be working. What dust is doing right now is basically turning everything on it's head. amarr can't armor tank like they should, minmatar say their suits are useless. This alleviates much of that and opens the game up to the depth an mmofps within eve should have. Trying to cram it into 2 groups of 5 is much harder than working with the 8-8-8 system. at least I think so. It adds more variety among suits also. There's still chunks missing and if were gonna fill it in and add new stuff to compliment fps mechanics 5-5 just doesn't work. There's not enough room. [/quote] The problems with races not meeting their expected conventions is a very easily fixed numbers issue, not something systemic to Dust. Remember that while certain mechanics and conventions from Eve may work very well in Dust, some will just flat-out not, usually due to the vast difference between the pace of the two games. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 475	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:21:00 - [54] - Quote Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". Only users lose drugs. Time wounds all heels.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:32:00 - [55] - Quote Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 475	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:40:00 - [56] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. Only users lose drugs. Time wounds all heels.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.10 10:49:00 - [57] - Quote Meee One wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. I....what? I "refuse" to "acknowledge" that thread? What does that even mean? I have read those stats, for the record. But more to the point, how would you have any way of knowing whether or not I had? That statement makes literally no sense. I don't think that you actually read all of my idea, because I suggest that first Assaults' and Logis' respective slots are balanced, and then their stats are. Personally, I like the idea of Logis having higher base HP, while Assaults gain more mobility and base regen. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 405	Posted - 2014.03.10 18:14:00 - [58] - Quote Meee One wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. Speed doesn't mean anything. The regen on assaults is nothing. Caldari shields should rep passively and gallente should be able to achieve 40-50 armor reps. Gallente can't even active tank. Amarr can't resist tank. Logis are simply better assaults at the moment. If speed mattered more than three people would run proto min assault.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 234	Posted - 2014.03.11 02:18:00 - [59] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Meee One wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. Speed doesn't mean anything. The regen on assaults is nothing. Caldari shields should rep passively and gallente should be able to achieve 40-50 armor reps. Gallente can't even active tank. Amarr can't resist tank. Logis are simply better assaults at the moment. If speed mattered more than three people would run proto min assault. Speed and regen will be relevant in 1.8 with the adjusted TTK. A fast suit will be able to break contact and get to cover to regen. This whole topic on balancing is off track, as all of the suggested ideas are assuming game play will be exactly the same after the next patch. Damage mods at the old values combined with extra mod slots is why everyone went logi in the first place. At the start of 1.8, the extra mod slots is too much still, but the assaults new bonuses will help almost even it out. After which, we do need to make all the med suits equal in H/L slots. This allows the logi to still overcome the speed, regen, and tank differences the assault has, but will never be able to attain as much of either. With one less H/L slots EVEN with buffs to the stats of the logi, and the logi will have no choices in how to build their suits. All mods slots would be devoted to tank only. This would still leave us with less ehp than what is achievable by assaults, less effective regen abilities, as well as being slow moving ducks waddling around, with not enough firepower to survive. This would make this suit a novelty for the rich isk/sp players only. All med suits all the core should be the same. The only differences should be the logi gets more equipment and reduced speed to the extra weight, and differences in class bonuses. This means regen, HP, stamina and H/L need to be the same across the board. They should be the same suits, with just minor modifications that allow them to perform in there specialty effectively. Assaults bonuses to their weapon and ability to carry a sidearm makes the combat superior to killing the logi, even the amar with their sidearm. The logis slower speed makes them sitting ducks, but they can put out equipment to help their team effectively. A high slot with shield extender is greater than a uplink. A low slot with an armor plate is greater than a rep tool. A sidearm is greater than nanoinjector. These are reasons why we cannot count total slots of a suit, and have to treat them as just part of the specialization bonus the suit gets. The only reason to have a different slot layout would be if the were their own tree and type of suit. As it is, to try out a logi, you have to spec into the basic med. This is basically an assault suit stripped of the role bonus. This implies these are the same suits, and should be built at the core the same. This would balance the two specializations out. Sage /thread
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 411	Posted - 2014.03.11 08:41:00 - [60] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Meee One wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Meee One wrote: Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses. I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. Speed doesn't mean anything. The regen on assaults is nothing. Caldari shields should rep passively and gallente should be able to achieve 40-50 armor reps. Gallente can't even active tank. Amarr can't resist tank. Logis are simply better assaults at the moment. If speed mattered more than three people would run proto min assault. Speed and regen will be relevant in 1.8 with the adjusted TTK. A fast suit will be able to break contact and get to cover to regen. This whole topic on balancing is off track, as all of the suggested ideas are assuming game play will be exactly the same after the next patch. -á Damage mods at the old values combined with extra mod slots is why everyone went logi in the first place. At the start of 1.8, the extra mod slots is too much still, but the assaults new bonuses will help almost even it out. After which, we do need to make all the med suits equal in H/L slots. This allows the logi to still overcome the speed, regen, and tank differences the assault has, but will never be able to attain as much of either.-á With one less H/L slots EVEN with buffs to the stats of the logi, and the logi will have no choices in how to build their suits. All mods slots would be devoted to tank only. This would still leave us with less ehp than what is achievable by assaults, less effective regen abilities, as well as being slow moving ducks waddling around, with not enough firepower to survive. This would make this suit a novelty for the rich isk/sp players only.-á All med suits all the core should be the same. The only differences should be the logi gets more equipment and reduced speed to the extra weight, and differences in class bonuses. This means regen, HP, stamina and H/L need to be the same across the board. They should be the same suits, with just minor modifications that allow them to perform in there specialty effectively. Assaults bonuses to their weapon and ability to carry a sidearm makes the combat superior to killing the logi, even the amar with their sidearm. The logis slower speed makes them sitting ducks, but they can put out equipment to help their team effectively.-á A high slot with shield extender is greater than a uplink. A low slot with an armor plate is greater than a rep tool. A sidearm is greater than nanoinjector. These are reasons why we cannot count total slots of a suit, and have to treat them as just part of the specialization bonus the suit gets. The only reason to have a different slot layout would be if the were their own tree and type of suit. As it is, to try out a logi, you have to spec into the basic med. This is basically an assault suit stripped of the role bonus. This implies these are the same suits, and should be built at the core the same. This would balance the two specializations out. What are you talking about lol? A gallente suit can't get 50 reps-á I want active tanking with my armor repping during gunfights as I get hit.-á5hp per second is an insult. The new bonuses are terrible unless your amarr or minmatar. Nothings gonna get evened out. The caldari bonus is garbage and so is the 25% CPU/pg reduction for sidearm and light weapons. It's the same thing as a 25% equipment reduction. if theirs a CPU pg reduction it needs to be for racial weaponry on that suit. Unless speed values have been changed greatly the spee difference between a logi and assault suit will continue to not matter. Read my restructure up above of what assaults should be lol. Logis only share the same suit model because Ccp shanghai is inept. We should have 4-5 unique medium suits like eve has for cruisers of every race alone with the tech 2 version which is the assault/logi-áEach one has a different slot layout, stats, and role.-álogis have too many mod slots, assault should have more than a logi because logi gets equipment. I don't use sidearms, they're for people who can't kill with their main weapon, I don't need one on my assault suit. I'd prefer an optional assault suit with more slot space and no sidearm. If your saying they're built the same why do logis get more slots and more equipment.-áProto gal logi has 4 equipment, 3 highs and 5 lows. Proto-ágal assault has 1, 3, 4.-áNo reason why assault shouldn't have the 5th low and logi gets 4 since it has the 4 equipment slots.-á what I wrote in my restructure doesn't change gameplay. It fixes it. I left out capacitors and active mods (which we need) We need to make the game more like eve. The assaults are worthless until theirs a slot change or significant bonus change (minus amir because they actually have a really good bonus)

Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.11 09:16:00 - [61] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Speed and regen will be relevant in 1.8 with the adjusted TTK. A fast suit will be able to break contact and get to cover to regen. This whole topic on balancing is off track, as all of the suggested ideas are assuming game play will be exactly the same after the next patch. Hopefully, anyway. I'd really like to see speed/shield/regen tanking become more viable in 1.8. But in case my thread title didn't give it away, my suggestions are in no way the product of ignoring 1.8. My goal here is to give Assault suits a more defined role specifically in 1.8. Doshneil Antaro wrote: Damage mods at the old values combined with extra mod slots is why everyone went logi in the first place. At the start of 1.8, the extra mod slots is too much still, but the assaults new bonuses will help almost even it out. After which, we do need to make all the med suits equal in H/L slots. This allows the logi to still overcome the speed, regen, and tank differences the assault has, but will never be able to attain as much of either. I agree that Slayer Logis are so popular mainly because of the extra slots. On the point of bonuses, I would much rather that the suits' stats/slots were balanced against each other, as well as their bonuses independently. I don't necessarily want all H/L slots equal on medium suits across the board; there's nothing wrong with some diversity and deviation to keep things feeling unique. Doshneil Antaro wrote: With one less H/L slots EVEN with buffs to the stats of the logi, and the logi will have no choices in how to build their suits. All mods slots would be devoted to tank only. This would still leave us with less ehp than what is achievable by assaults, less effective regen abilities, as well as being slow moving ducks waddling around, with not enough firepower to survive.This would make this suit a novelty for the rich isk/sp players only. That argument doesn't really make sense to me, as you could say exactly the same thing about Assault suits then. Anyway, having one less module than the suit with the highest module count doesn't exactly "limit" flexibility. And just as a reminder, I'd like to give Logis more base EHP, Assaults more base mobility, and then balance the total slot counts. What exactly what make Logis a "novelty for the rich"? Doshneil Antaro wrote: All med suits all the core should be the same. The only differences should be the logi gets more equipment and reduced speed to the extra weight, and differences in class bonuses. This means regen, HP, stamina and H/L need to be the same across the board. They should be the same suits, with just minor modifications that allow them to perform in there specialty effectively. Assaults bonuses to their weapon and ability to carry a sidearm makes the combat superior to killing the logi, even the amar with their sidearm. The logis slower speed makes them sitting ducks, but they can put out equipment to help their team effectively. That sounds....incredibly uninteresting. Having the suits be 90% similar with the smallest of changes wouldn't make either suit really feel all that specialized or (in my opinion) as fun to play as. Doshneil Antaro wrote: A high slot with shield extender is greater than a uplink. A low slot with an armor plate is greater than a rep tool. A sidearm is greater than nanoinjector. These are reasons why we cannot count total slots of a suit, and have to treat them as just part of the specialization bonus the suit gets. The only reason to have a different slot layout would be if the were their own tree and type of suit. As it is, to try out a logi, you have to spec into the basic med. This is basically an assault suit stripped of the role bonus. This implies these are the same suits, and should be built at the core the same. This would balance the two specializations out. That's all incredibly debatable. Equipment can be very useful both in regards to helping your team, and helping you by giving you a whole heaping pile of WP. I'd certainly say one Equipment slot is worth at least one Module slot. To try out an Assault, you also have to spec into the Basic Medium Frame, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I do think that the Basic Frames could use some tweaking; personally I like Kagehoshi's idea on that subject. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 895	Posted - 2014.03.11 21:11:00 - [62] - Quote I keep telling people not to discount the new general assault bonus. With maxed light weapons and sidearms and maxed fitting optimization we'll be fitting proto weapons at the CPU/PG cost of advanced and fitting specialist weapons at the cost of standard Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.11 23:27:00 - [63] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: I keep telling people not to discount the new general assault bonus. With maxed light weapons and sidearms and maxed fitting optimization we'll be fitting proto weapons at the CPU/PG cost of advanced and fitting specialist weapons at the cost of standard Who was discounting it? I think it's a fine bonus. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3034	Posted - 2014.03.11 23:34:00 - [64] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: +1 on the Assaults having more module slots than Logis. I think they should homogenize the Medium suits, slot wise, and I mean all the slots. Right now Proto Logis have- A:13, C:14, G:14, and M:14 while the Proto Assaults have A:10, C:11, G:11, and M:11 total slots. That averages out to 12 total slots on Proto suits, which I think would be great. The Assaults would have more modules in exchange the Logis have their Equipment slots. So, in my theoritcal world, which I'm sure someone else has come up with, the Logis would look kinda like this: Logistics Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-3 Low Slots 3 (Of course, If we make them more Armor centric, lose at least a High-slot for another Low, perhaps change two, giving it 1 High and 5 Lows, this would also differentiate it from the Gallente more than the sidearm) Logistics Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3 Logistics Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-2 Low Slots-4 Logistics Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-4 Low Slots-2 (I know that's a major change to the Minmatar, if we want to maximize speed, maybe a 3-3 split would work better, again, these are just rough sketches.) Likewise, the Assaults would look like this: Assault Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1* High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (Again, if we make them more Armor focused, instead of balanced, then a 3 High, 5 Low could be fun, though differentiating from Gallente would be difficult, unless we give one of them 2 equipment slots ) Assault Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1 High Slots-5 Low Slots-3 Assault Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade- Equipment-1* High Slots-3 low Slots-5 (Again, giving one of them an additional equipment in exchange for a slot would help separate the two, personally, I'd give it to the Gallente) Assault Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1* High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (To keep it different from the Caldari, @ 4-4 split was all I could think of, but, giving the Minmatar an extra equipment could help split the difference, and then switch it back to the current 5-2 split.) My biggest issue is the 2 equipment on the Assaults, taking one of the best 1.8 changes from the scouts and just spreading it around. However, with a maximum number of slots available on any module type being 5, while homogenizing medium slots, leads to very similar slot configurations. This is just my thought, bash me like crazy. I've been running Logi since Open Beta time and added Assault to the mix when uprising hit. Keeping total slots the same between the two would allow you to give the Assaults a boost while not gimping Logis horribly. This seems to me like common sense. The logis should have more Equipment slots, the Assaults should have more Highs and Lows. The fact that it's common sense tells us that CCP will likely never do it this way.
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 502	Posted - 2014.03.12 05:56:00 - [65] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: +1 on the Assaults having more module slots than Logis. I think they should homogenize the Medium suits, slot wise, and I mean all the slots. Right now Proto Logis have- A:13, C:14, G:14, and M:14 while the Proto Assaults have A:10, C:11, G:11, and M:11 total slots. That averages out to 12 total slots on Proto suits, which I think would be great. The Assaults would have more modules in exchange the Logis have their Equipment slots. So, in my theoritcal world, which I'm sure someone else has come up with, the Logis would look kinda like this: Logistics Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-3 Low Slots 3 (Of course, If we make them more Armor centric, lose at least a High-slot for another Low, perhaps change two, giving it 1 High and 5 Lows, this would also differentiate it from the Gallente more than the sidearm) Logistics Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3 Logistics Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-2 Low Slots-4 Logistics Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-4 High Slots-4 Low Slots-2 (I know that's a major change to the Minmatar, if we want to maximize speed, maybe a 3-3 split would work better, again, these are just rough sketches.) Likewise, the Assaults would look like this: Assault Ak.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1* High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (Again, if we make them more Armor focused, instead of balanced, then a 3 High, 5 Low could be fun, though differentiating from Gallente would be difficult, unless we give one of them 2 equipment slots ) Assault Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1 High Slots-5 Low Slots-3 Assault Gk.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade- Equipment-1* High Slots-3 low Slots-5 (Again, giving one of them an additional equipment in exchange for a slot would help separate the two, personally, I'd give it to the Gallente) Assault Mk.0 Light Weapon-1 Sidearm-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-1* High Slots-4 Low Slots-4 (To keep it different from the Caldari, @ 4-4 split was all I could think of, but, giving the Minmatar an extra equipment could help split the difference, and then switch it back to the current 5-2 split.) My biggest issue is the 2 equipment on the Assaults, taking one of the best 1.8 changes from the scouts and just spreading it around. However, with a maximum number of slots available on any module type being 5, while homogenizing medium slots, leads to very similar slot configurations. This is just my thought, bash me like crazy. I've been running Logi since Open Beta time and added Assault to the mix when uprising hit. Keeping total slots the same between the two would allow you to give the Assaults a boost while not gimping Logis horribly. This seems to me like common sense. The logis should have more Equipment slots, the Assaults should have more Highs and Lows. The fact that it's common sense tells us that CCP will likely never do it this way. It seems to me that assaults are ignoring their base stat advantage,just to come up with an excuse to gimp logis more than they are already being gimped in 1.8 To equal an assaults BASEstats (before they add ANY modules) would take minimal 5 slots. Shield extender,shield regulator,armor plate,cardiac regulator,kinetic catalyser. And a basic logi Gk has 2 lows,while a basic assault Gk has 2 lows and 1 high. So, even if a Gk.0 used 5 slots to be equal with assaults base stats it would leave them with 3 slots. All while an assault has ZERO used to attain their tank [b]and speed and [b]still has access to 100% of their slots. I can't make it any easier for you retards to understand. Only users lose drugs. Time wounds all heels.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 288	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:38:00 - [66] - Quote Meee One wrote: It seems to me that assaults are ignoring their base stat advantage,just to come up with an excuse to gimp logis more than they are already being gimped in 1.8 To equal an assaults BASE stats,before they add ANY modules would take minimal 5 slots. Shield extender,shield regulator,armor plate,cardiac regulator,kinetic catalyser. And a basic logi Gk has 2 lows,while a basic assault Gk has 2 lows and 1 high. So, even if a Gk.0 used 5 slots to be equal with assaults base stats it would leave them with 3 slots. All while an assault has ZERO used to attain their tank and speed and still has access to 100% of their slots. I can't make it any easier for you retards to understand. Ok, just for posterity, once again: First balance the slots between the two suits, then balance the base stats. Give Assaults more base mobility, and give Logis more base EHP. Did you find that easy enough to understand? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Kaughst Nyain San Renegade Alliance 267	Posted - 2014.03.12 19:43:00 - [67] - Quote I always felt they made the suit 'master of none, incompetent in everything.' "That is not how you say my name." "How do you say your name?" "I don't know but that is not how you say it."
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3035	Posted - 2014.03.12 22:46:00 - [68] - Quote Meee One wrote: Baal Roo wrote: This seems to me like common sense. The logis should have more Equipment slots, the Assaults should have more Highs and Lows. The fact that it's common sense tells us that CCP will likely never do it this way. It seems to me that assaults are ignoring their base stat advantage,just to come up with an excuse to gimp logis more than they are already being gimped in 1.8 To equal an assaults BASE stats,before they add ANY modules would take minimal 5 slots. Shield extender,shield regulator,armor plate,cardiac regulator,kinetic catalyser. And a basic logi Gk has 2 lows,while a basic assault Gk has 2 lows and 1 high. So, even if a Gk.0 used 5 slots to be equal with assaults base stats it would leave them with 3 slots. All while an assault has ZERO used to attain their tank and speed and still has access to 100% of their slots. I can't make it any easier for you retards to understand. I play as a logi jackass, this has nothing to do with "gimping" anything. You're coming at this based on how things are currently set up, but how things are currently set up is unnecessarily obtuse in the first place. That's the entire point that we're making. You can blah blah blah about the current stats all you want, but it's completely irrelevant to a conversation about what we think would be a better way of doing things. Considering modules and slot layouts are the bread and butter of the game, and are the main way for people to differentiate and customize their characters, it makes sense to balance the suits out first on their slot layouts and then go through and add base stat bonuses. Stay classy though, ass.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 412	Posted - 2014.03.13 00:33:00 - [69] - Quote amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 290	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:40:00 - [70] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout. I'm not against that. Honestly I was more concerned with balancing slots overall then the specific High/Low layout. But, I might add more specific layouts to flesh out the idea a bit, if I have the time. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 416	Posted - 2014.03.13 05:57:00 - [71] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout. I'm not against that. Honestly I was more concerned with balancing slots overall then the specific High/Low layout. But, I might add more specific layouts to flesh out the idea a bit, if I have the time. Slots overall? As in 2 equipment slots and 1 low versus 2 lows and 1 equip slot?
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 303	Posted - 2014.03.13 06:05:00 - [72] - Quote Uh .........."Can I get TL:DR ?" ( he says in his southern baptist preacher voice) Assaults are slamming into the objective and Assaulting thats what they do. Fortune favors the Bold,but Success favors the Resolute Unbent,Unburdened, UNSTOPPABLE Amarr loyalist
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 291	Posted - 2014.03.13 06:28:00 - [73] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Summ Dude wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout. I'm not against that. Honestly I was more concerned with balancing slots overall then the specific High/Low layout. But, I might add more specific layouts to flesh out the idea a bit, if I have the time. Slots overall? As in 2 equipment slots and 1 low versus 2 lows and 1 equip slot? Yes, I'm measuring by overall slots. Including Sidearm, Grenade, Equipment, and Module slots. Evicer wrote: Uh .........."Can I get TL:DR ?" ( he says in his southern baptist preacher voice) Assaults are slamming into the objective and Assaulting thats what they do. Check the bottom of the OP for a TL;DR. That's fine as an idea for the role of Assaults, but I don't see anything in 1.8 that definitively makes them the best at doing that. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Vitharr Foebane Living Like Larry Schwag 742	Posted - 2014.03.13 06:56:00 - [74] - Quote Assaults should be the jack of all trades but master of none in my opinion. Thus it should have the slot layout to support said ideology. Thanks CCP for making the HMG Heavy viable again :3 That's no excuse to slack off on releasing a heavy laser though =.=
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 293	Posted - 2014.03.13 07:06:00 - [75] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Assaults should be the jack of all trades but master of none in my opinion. Thus it should have the slot layout to support said ideology. I more or less agree. But as I've said, I tend to prefer the label Adaptable Shock Trooper. Not just a generalist suit, but a flexible suit that can be prepared for any situation, and is able to shape the battlefield to suit its needs. I believe that having the most module slots of any suit would help to encourage this role. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 417	Posted - 2014.03.13 07:19:00 - [76] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Assaults should be the jack of all trades but master of none in my opinion. Thus it should have the slot layout to support said ideology. That's the standard light-medium-heavy frame. Not the assault.Assault is specialized. You need to be good at killing and taking damage. Like a tech two cruiser. It's supposed to be the slayer suit. Good at assaulting, being on the front line in the carnage pushing the battle. Killing, being fast, killing, eating damage and more killing,
HYENAKILLER X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 665	Posted - 2014.03.13 07:42:00 - [77] - Quote I dont know about other assaults but gallente assaults can light tank or "scout tank" Assault g series has 2 high and 3 low. If you cant find a roll for that take up painting. Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 294	Posted - 2014.03.13 22:16:00 - [78] - Quote So I had the idea that maybe instead of Assaults getting slightly better overall base stats than Logis, they could just get another module slot somewhere. Suggested Medium Suit Slot Layouts Assault: Amarr: 1LW/2S/1G/1EQ/3H/5L Caldari: 1LW/1S/1G/1EQ/5H/4L Gallente: 1LW/1S/1G/2EQ/3H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1S/2G/1EQ/4H/4L Logi: Amarr: 1LW/1S/1G/3EQ/3H/4L Caldari: 1LW/1G/3EQ/5H/3L Gallente: 1LW/1G/4EQ/2H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1G/4EQ/4H/3L So this leaves all medium suits with 13 total slots at PRO. All of the Logis get 7 module slots, except for the Caldari which gets 8, due to not having a bonus Sidearm or Equipment slot. All of the Assaults get 8 module slots, again except for the Caldari, which has 9. The Amarr Assault gets an extra Sidearm; this is in line with the Amarr Logi, and allows the suit to constantly have a weapon ready to switch to. The Gallente Assault gets a bonus Equipment slot, in keeping with Gallente's philosophy of preserving life. The Minmatar Assault gets an extra Grenade slot, as the Minmatar love explosions, and it's arguably the best with grenades due to it's speed. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1953	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:31:00 - [79] - Quote Suits Each starter fit would have a static bonus and each bonus would be different from the others in that race. That static bonus would reflect one of that race's style. Amarr bonus would be to energy weapons and armor and Caldari would be more focused on shield and ranged combat and so on. The slots can be slightly different in the starters but mostly the same When we move to the light frames each suit would get a per level of light frame bonus. Similar slots to the starter. Light Advanced frames would get a per level of light frame bonus and a per level of scout bonus. These bonuses would be different than the standard frame per level bonuses to give them their specialty. The standard may have 5% per level to armor mods but the advanced would have 5% to armor repairer per level and 3% reduction in armor repairer CPU. There are Two Light suits in the tree I made and both would have different bonuses given on the suit and per level of skill. Light Prototype suits would have a static bonus and two unique bonus per level but it would come with a missing slot or a slot moved to high from low, anything to make it different to almost the point of gimping if not used within its role. Giving a suit an extra sidearm or grenade slot would be a perfect way to give a proto suit a unique feel as long as it comes with some type of drawback. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 447	Posted - 2014.03.15 07:24:00 - [80] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Suits Each starter fit would have a static bonus and each bonus would be different from the others in that race. That static bonus would reflect one of that race's style. Amarr bonus would be to energy weapons and armor and Caldari would be more focused on shield and ranged combat and so on. The slots can be slightly different in the starters but mostly the same When we move to the light frames each suit would get a per level of light frame bonus. Similar slots to the starter. Light Advanced frames would get a per level of light frame bonus and a per level of scout bonus. These bonuses would be different than the standard frame per level bonuses to give them their specialty. The standard may have 5% per level to armor mods but the advanced would have 5% to armor repairer per level and 3% reduction in armor repairer CPU. There are Two Light suits in the tree I made and both would have different bonuses given on the suit and per level of skill. Light Prototype suits would have a static bonus and two unique bonus per level but it would come with a missing slot or a slot moved to high from low, anything to make it different to almost the point of gimping if not used within its role. Giving a suit an extra sidearm or grenade slot would be a perfect way to give a proto suit a unique feel as long as it comes with some type of drawback. The pic is too small and blurry. I can't tell what it is Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*

Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 298	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:40:00 - [81] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Suits Each starter fit would have a static bonus and each bonus would be different from the others in that race. That static bonus would reflect one of that race's style. Amarr bonus would be to energy weapons and armor and Caldari would be more focused on shield and ranged combat and so on. The slots can be slightly different in the starters but mostly the same When we move to the light frames each suit would get a per level of light frame bonus. Similar slots to the starter. Light Advanced frames would get a per level of light frame bonus and a per level of scout bonus. These bonuses would be different than the standard frame per level bonuses to give them their specialty. The standard may have 5% per level to armor mods but the advanced would have 5% to armor repairer per level and 3% reduction in armor repairer CPU. There are Two Light suits in the tree I made and both would have different bonuses given on the suit and per level of skill. Light Prototype suits would have a static bonus and two unique bonus per level but it would come with a missing slot or a slot moved to high from low, anything to make it different to almost the point of gimping if not used within its role. Giving a suit an extra sidearm or grenade slot would be a perfect way to give a proto suit a unique feel as long as it comes with some type of drawback. Yea I'm....not sure exactly what I'm looking at here. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 224	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:47:00 - [82] - Quote Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) Take a second to forget about Dust and think about other FPS games. I always hated the shotgun, because the range is horrendous. It's less of a shotgun and more of a portable shrapnel launcher. I'd love to see how this turns out for shotguns because REAL shotguns have short to medium range, not short to point blank. bamboo x in 1.8 (Boundless Heavy Machine Gun) you bamboo x (Ion Pistol) you bamboo x (Forge Gun) you
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 298	Posted - 2014.03.15 08:52:00 - [83] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) Take a second to forget about Dust and think about other FPS games. I always hated the shotgun, because the range is horrendous. It's less of a shotgun and more of a portable shrapnel launcher. I'd love to see how this turns out for shotguns because REAL shotguns have short to medium range, not short to point blank. This is pretty unrelated, but it's worth saying: What happens in real life has no bearing on this game, at all. I don't care what a real world assault rifle can do. Because in Dust, we're not shooting real world assault rifles at real world infantry. We're shooting future space guns that actually fire ionized plasma bolts at mercenaries in high-tech super space Iron Man suits. Real life doesn't really mean squat. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 303	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:29:00 - [84] - Quote I dont often insult people on the forums but this has to be the dumbest thread Ive seen in along time....... You want more slots on the assaults but you wont have enough pgu/cpu to run all those modules not only that. If say they (CCP) did bump the cpu/pg of the assaults AND give you more slots then you just change the names of the suits.They're both medium frames.......except the logi's ARE slower.Have less base hp.Slower strafe speed.Slower turn speed. Less stamina.Slower sprint speed......AAAAAAANNNNNNNNDDDDD LESS SP REQUIREMENT. LOL wow let me get off these forums while all these ****** germs are floating around lest they contaminate me....... Fortune favors the Bold,but Success favors the Resolute** Unbent,Unburdened, UNSTOPPABLE Amarr loyalist
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 448	Posted - 2014.03.15 10:41:00 - [85] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: bamboo x wrote: Joel II X wrote: The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR. How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) Take a second to forget about Dust and think about other FPS games. I always hated the shotgun, because the range is horrendous. It's less of a shotgun and more of a portable shrapnel launcher. I'd love to see how this turns out for shotguns because REAL shotguns have short to medium range, not short to point blank. This is pretty unrelated, but it's worth saying: What happens in real life has no bearing on this game, at all. I don't care what a real world assault rifle can do. Because in Dust, we're not shooting real world assault rifles at real world infantry. We're shooting future space guns that actually fire ionized plasma bolts at mercenaries in high-tech super space Iron Man suits. Real life doesn't really mean squat. Don't forget that the bonus in no way boosts te shotguns range which makes the range perspective redundant. Though I agree shotguns need to be effective at longer ranges. Shotgun needs alot of work actually lol, higher turn speed, new iron sights... List goes on. But yeah not much to do with the assault suit because that bonus is god awful and doesn't help the plasma cannon or ion pistol either. Arguing realism is silly. If anything weapons from the future should completely out perform real weapons. no kick, near perfect accuracy, lightweight. Given 30000 years well come up with creative solutions to kill each other more effectively. Shotguns night as well light people on fire while were at it. It's plasma afterall. Idk why everyone wants it to be like other fps games. This is new Eden. Dust should strive to be better than that. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 300	Posted - 2014.03.15 11:35:00 - [86] - Quote Evicer wrote: I dont often insult people on the forums but this has to be the dumbest thread Ive seen in along time....... You want more slots on the assaults but you wont have enough pgu/cpu to run all those modules not only that. If say they (CCP) did bump the cpu/pg of the assaults AND give you more slots then you just change the names of the suits.They're both medium frames.......except the logi's ARE slower.Have less base hp.Slower strafe speed.Slower turn speed. Less stamina.Slower sprint speed......AAAAAAANNNNNNNNDDDDD LESS SP REQUIREMENT. LOL wow let me get off these forums while all these ******** germs are floating around lest they contaminate me....... That's um, pretty far from helpful. But ok. It would seem you didn't read the whole idea, as you evidently missed the part where I suggested giving Logis more base EHP, while giving Assaults more base mobility. Balance the slots, then the stats. Make sense? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Bubba Rector BR514 16	Posted - 2014.03.15 15:39:00 - [87] - Quote I say, take away the base bonus of 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons and instead give a 5% bonus to damage mod effectiveness. Add 1 extra equipment slot and increase the base CPU and PG by 10%. Now you have a viable assault class that is very deadly and versatile.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2198	Posted - 2014.03.15 15:58:00 - [88] - Quote I don't think you quite understood the Suits orginal description, the description you suggested afterwards sounds more like a heavy scout Assaults are meant to be versatile as in they can be used for anything and everything. Need AV? Take an Assault Suit Need Shock Trooper take an Assault Suit so on and so forth. I don't think the T2 dropsuit systems really allow the Assault to do the job it should be capable of doing. 1) New Equipment: Laser Designator An Assault dropsuit with a laser designator is truly one of the most versatile units available. The user can designate upto 4 unique tasks ranging from bombing runs amd artillery strikes, to vehicular transportation and team orders. These requests can even be seen by team commanders who can route them to the best equipped units to respond. 2) Orbital Depot Drop: Assaults are the only unit capable of deploying new supply depots to the field. Unlike other units which can only drop small/large turret installations, the Assault suit is also capable of delivering a supply depot to ground forces nearby, this allows them to remain active no matter the circumstances, for a price. 3) T3 Weapon Customization: With the introduction of the T3 weapons systems most units obtained the ability to build weapons exactly to their liking, however the Assault suit also gained a few extra advantages. With a T3 weapons system the Assault Suit can forgo deployable equipment in order to modify their weapon on the fly mid-battle. You can still only have 1 light weapon, but for example in T3 you get a frame and a main assembly, you can swap outmthe main assembly, so an Assault Rifle can modified into Tactical Assault Rifle or an Assault Mass Driver can be changed to a breach as the need arises. This doesn't encroach on the Commando's field as it is still only 1 weapon. But the weapon can now be tweaked mid-battle. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 300	Posted - 2014.03.15 20:18:00 - [89] - Quote Bubba Rector wrote: I say, take away the base bonus of 5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons and instead give a 5% bonus to damage mod effectiveness. Add 1 extra equipment slot and increase the base CPU and PG by 10%. Now you have a viable assault class that is very deadly and versatile. I actually quite like the 1.8 Assault role bonus, and remember that Damage Mods are getting nerfed in 1.8, so a bonus to them would mean even less. Simply adding one extra Equipment slot to Assaults would still leave them with less total slots than Logis, which I have a problem with. What exactly about your suggested changes would actually make the suit more versatile? Or specifically more versatile than a Logi by comparison? Monkey MAC wrote: I don't think you quite understood the Suits orginal description, the description you suggested afterwards sounds more like a heavy scout Assaults are meant to be versatile as in they can be used for anything and everything. Need AV? Take an Assault Suit Need Shock Trooper take an Assault Suit so on and so forth. I don't think the T2 dropsuit systems really allow the Assault to do the job it should be capable of doing. 1) New Equipment: Laser Designator An Assault dropsuit with a laser designator is truly one of the most versatile units available. The user can designate upto 4 unique tasks ranging from bombing runs amd artillery strikes, to vehicular transportation and team orders. These requests can even be seen by team commanders who can route them to the best equipped units to respond. 2) Orbital Depot Drop: Assaults are the only unit capable of deploying new supply depots to the field. Unlike other units which can only drop small/large turret installations, the Assault suit is also capable of delivering a supply depot to ground forces nearby, this allows them to remain active no matter the circumstances, for a price. 3) T3 Weapon Customization: With the introduction of the T3 weapons systems most units obtained the ability to build weapons exactly to their liking, however the Assault suit also gained a few extra advantages. With a T3 weapons system the Assault Suit can forgo deployable equipment in order to modify their weapon on the fly mid-battle. You can still only have 1 light weapon, but for example in T3 you get a frame and a main assembly, you can swap outmthe main assembly, so an Assault Rifle can modified into Tactical Assault Rifle or an Assault Mass Driver can be changed to a breach as the need arises. This doesn't encroach on the Commando's field as it is still only 1 weapon. But the weapon can now be tweaked mid-battle. I'm not sure what you mean by saying I misunderstood the description. I do very much like the idea of Assaults being the most flexible suits, that's pretty much what I'm going for here. One or some of these ideas might work, but they all also require a hefty set of new resources to be added to the game first. What I'm offering is a practical solution based on what's already in the game, and that can be implemented without adding any new resources. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 265	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:34:00 - [90] - Quote Summ Dude wrote: So I had the idea that maybe instead of Assaults getting slightly better overall base stats than Logis, they could just get another module slot somewhere. Suggested Medium Suit Slot Layouts Assault: Amarr: 1LW/2S/1G/1EQ/3H/5L Caldari: 1LW/1S/1G/1EQ/5H/4L Gallente: 1LW/1S/1G/2EQ/3H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1S/2G/1EQ/4H/4L Logi: Amarr: 1LW/1S/1G/3EQ/3H/4L Caldari: 1LW/1G/3EQ/5H/3L Gallente: 1LW/1G/4EQ/2H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1G/4EQ/4H/3L So this leaves all medium suits with 13 total slots at PRO. All of the Logis get 7 module slots, except for the Caldari which gets 8, due to not having a bonus Sidearm or Equipment slot. All of the Assaults get 8 module slots, again except for the Caldari, which has 9. The Amarr Assault gets an extra Sidearm; this is in line with the Amarr Logi, and allows the suit to constantly have a weapon ready to switch to. The Gallente Assault gets a bonus Equipment slot, in keeping with Gallente's philosophy of preserving life. The Minmatar Assault gets an extra Grenade slot, as the Minmatar love explosions, and it's arguably the best with grenades due to it's speed. I guess I'll give you feedback. I don't think Assaults need to have more module slots than Logis. Ideally, Logis have the same as Assaults. I do like your idea of giving Assaults 'other' slots though. I think if just this was done, Assaults would be in a good place. Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.

Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 47	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:46:00 - [91] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Logistics Ck.0 Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3 why does the logi cko have 2 less module slots but still only have 3 equipment slots? that would be terrible
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 307	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:47:00 - [92] - Quote Martyr Saboteur wrote: Summ Dude wrote: So I had the idea that maybe instead of Assaults getting slightly better overall base stats than Logis, they could just get another module slot somewhere. Suggested Medium Suit Slot Layouts Assault: Amarr: 1LW/2S/1G/1EQ/3H/5L Caldari: 1LW/1S/1G/1EQ/5H/4L Gallente: 1LW/1S/1G/2EQ/3H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1S/2G/1EQ/4H/4L Logi: Amarr: 1LW/1S/1G/3EQ/3H/4L Caldari: 1LW/1G/3EQ/5H/3L Gallente: 1LW/1G/4EQ/2H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1G/4EQ/4H/3L So this leaves all medium suits with 13 total slots at PRO. All of the Logis get 7 module slots, except for the Caldari which gets 8, due to not having a bonus Sidearm or Equipment slot. All of the Assaults get 8 module slots, again except for the Caldari, which has 9. The Amarr Assault gets an extra Sidearm; this is in line with the Amarr Logi, and allows the suit to constantly have a weapon ready to switch to. The Gallente Assault gets a bonus Equipment slot, in keeping with Gallente's philosophy of preserving life. The Minmatar Assault gets an extra Grenade slot, as the Minmatar love explosions, and it's arguably the best with grenades due to it's speed. I guess I'll give you feedback. I don't think Assaults need to have more module slots than Logis. Ideally, Logis have the same as Assaults. I do like your idea of giving Assaults 'other' slots though. I think if just this was done, Assaults would be in a good place. Well, I'm giving Assaults and Logis the same total number of slots, including Equipment. Logis can get the extra Equipment to make them better team support units, while Assaults can get the extra module slot (note that it's only one over the respective Logi) and extra Sidearm/Equipment/Grenade slot to be more flexible units. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance 537	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:53:00 - [93] - Quote I think assaults (and basic mediums) just need another equipment slot and a slightly better bonus, something like a bonus to speed or efficacy of race based modules. The Gallente assault bonus should be a reduction to the speed penalty of armout plates for example. With a second equipment slot people will already thinking about ditching the logi in order to retain some versatility and keep their sidearm, speed and basic HP.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 310	Posted - 2014.03.18 00:00:00 - [94] - Quote RINON114 wrote: I think assaults (and basic mediums) just need another equipment slot and a slightly better bonus, something like a bonus to speed or efficacy of race based modules. The Gallente assault bonus should be a reduction to the speed penalty of armout plates for example. With a second equipment slot people will already thinking about ditching the logi in order to retain some versatility and keep their sidearm, speed and basic HP. But one extra Equipment slot alone still leaves the Assault with less total slots than Logis. I'm also not sure that a second Equipment slot across the board would be the most interesting thing to give Assault suits. As for the bonuses, I'm fine with the Minmatar and Amarr Assault bonuses. I offered my suggestion for the Caldari, but I'm still not exactly sure what would work better for the Gallente. But I do like the idea of them all affecting their racial weaponry. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 471	Posted - 2014.03.18 03:49:00 - [95] - Quote Equipment has nothing to do with assaulting lol. We need bonuses to tank and weapons. and a slot layout that prioritized that. Speed is negligible until speed tanking becomes viable. Ask minmatar users who say speed tanking is dead. having a small higher base speed doesn't give it any advantages over a logi. With the state blasters are in gallente might as well get a 20% damage increase since the ar's are already the lowest dps of the rifles where it should be the highest. Or be allowed to use all hybrids. Rails are as much a gallente weapon as caldari. Idk why caldari assault can't have the quick logi shield delay and get a regulator bonus for shield tanking. give it a bigger boost to regulators than the current logi Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 471	Posted - 2014.03.18 03:50:00 - [96] - Quote Trying to edit: get double post. I hate using this site on my phone so laggy Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Meee One The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 552	Posted - 2014.03.18 04:57:00 - [97] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: 2) Orbital Depot Drop: Assaults are the only unit capable of deploying new supply depots to the field. Unlike other units which can only drop small/large turret installations, the Assault suit is also capable of delivering a supply depot to ground forces nearby, this allows them to remain active no matter the circumstances, for a price. Lolno,resupplying troops is a logistics responsibility. Didn't you ever notice how all the installations colors were yellow,you know logistics colors. I game over like a boss.
HYENAKILLER X WILL FIGHT ANYONE 668	Posted - 2014.03.18 06:08:00 - [98] - Quote Plain and simple: assaults are offensive builds based primarily on skill. Its a true military issue style suit based on the idea of "do more with less", but with bonuses. People rip amar assaults. Perfect the scrambler rile and the amarr assaualt with scrambler is op. The scrambler rifle has the greatest reward for skill in this game. the minmatar has 7.43 base speed. Ever fight one on elevations? Adv assault has 3 high slots. Damage mods and sheilds with that speed is a crap suit? Thats starting scout speed. But everyone wants to be a scout? The gal adv scout has 1 less high slot and same speed. Im gallente. I run my gal assaults like scouts and am getting 20 kills a lot. 2 high 3 low is awesome. My base hp is 412 and im getting a lot done. Caldari assault has the same as minmatar. 3 high 2 low. How does that not work on adv? the truth is there is a large skill gap and a low average dust IQ in this player base and it can solely be blamed frustrations based on prefference and lack of creativity. The assault is incredibly versatile. Its not all tank/dps. Thats just sloppy. And now everyone wants to be a scout? Scouts are dead the very second some one hangs back and attentively runs perimeters. But im going gallente assault. That is the best assault with armor regen, 25% lite weapons cpu/pg reduction and 25% sharpshooter hip fire reduction. Ide go mimatar proto assault before scout in a heart beat. 600 sheilds with that speed? Gtfo here with assault gripes. Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 311	Posted - 2014.03.18 08:11:00 - [99] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Equipment has nothing to do with assaulting lol. We need bonuses to tank and weapons. and a slot layout that prioritized that. Speed is negligible until speed tanking becomes viable. Ask minmatar users who say speed tanking is dead. having a small higher base speed doesn't give it any advantages over a logi. With the state blasters are in gallente might as well get a 20% damage increase since the ar's are already the lowest dps of the rifles where it should be the highest. Or be allowed to use all hybrids. Rails are as much a gallente weapon as caldari. Idk why caldari assault can't have the quick logi shield delay and get a regulator bonus for shield tanking. give it a bigger boost to regulators than the current logi I had suggested in the past giving the Gallente Assault a bonus to the RoF of plasma weaponry. It would benefit more than just the AR, and would actually result in an effective DPS buff. And I mean, I still don't hate this idea, it would at least be slightly better than the current 1.8 bonus I think. But I'm still not sure it's the best possible way to go, I'd really like to think of something that allows you more continuous fire/less ammo conservation required. As for the Caldari Assault, do you have something against a bonus giving a reduction to railgun weaponry charge-up time? Assuming the RR's charge-up time was increased to at least 0.5s. I really do like the idea of all the Assault suits getting bonuses to their racial weaponry. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 311	Posted - 2014.03.18 09:02:00 - [100] - Quote HYENAKILLER X wrote: Plain and simple: assaults are offensive builds based primarily on skill. Its a true military issue style suit based on the idea of "do more with less", but with bonuses. People rip amar assaults. Perfect the scrambler rile and the amarr assaualt with scrambler is op. The scrambler rifle has the greatest reward for skill in this game. the minmatar has 7.43 base speed. Ever fight one on elevations? Adv assault has 3 high slots. Damage mods and sheilds with that speed is a crap suit? Thats starting scout speed. But everyone wants to be a scout? The gal adv scout has 1 less high slot and same speed. Im gallente. I run my gal assaults like scouts and am getting 20 kills a lot. 2 high 3 low is awesome. My base hp is 412 and im getting a lot done. Caldari assault has the same as minmatar. 3 high 2 low. How does that not work on adv? the truth is there is a large skill gap and a low average dust IQ in this player base and it can solely be blamed frustrations based on prefference and lack of creativity. The assault is incredibly versatile. Its not all tank/dps. Thats just sloppy. And now everyone wants to be a scout? Scouts are dead the very second some one hangs back and attentively runs perimeters. But im going gallente assault. That is the best assault with armor regen, 25% lite weapons cpu/pg reduction and 25% sharpshooter hip fire reduction. Ide go mimatar proto assault before scout in a heart beat. 600 sheilds with that speed? Gtfo here with assault gripes. I did not see a single response to any suggestion or point I made during any portion of this entire thread. So. The 1.8 Minmatar Assault movement speed is 5.3 m/s. Were you maybe referring to sprint speed? The 1.8 Gallente Scout has a movement speed of 5.45 m/s, which is....faster... Not sure where you're getting your information from. Your ego aside, simply looking at the numbers, it's not hard to see why so many players choose to run Assault Logis over actual Assault suits. I don't see how the suit with both less Module slots and less Equipment slots is more versatile. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2014.03.18 10:05:00 - [101] - Quote In terms of fittings, logis are meant to be more versatile, that's why they have more slots. I like that idea. The trade off is that logis shouldn't be able to be fitted to be as good at assaulting as assault suits. Attributes that are helpful for assaulting are maneuverability, damage, hp and weapons. At the moment the problems are: Maneuverability* is less important than hp due to short TTK favoring slayer logis. Armour tanking is currently superior due to low TTK and op damage mods, combined with logis innate armour rep further favors slayer logis. Sidearms are less important due to low TTK. Also the proficiency changes coming in 1.8 will favor using sidearms to plug damage type shortfalls. These issues are being resolved in 1.8. *Can I point out that the ability to move around quickly is an advantage that many people seem to under-appreciate. Ask any scout player (such as myself) what can be achieved with high mobility. In the current realm of armor logis people seem to forget this. (I also see this phenomenon in the 1.8 heavy QQ threads). This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff. If after 1.8 people still find assault suits lacking compared to logis, assault suits should be given either more base hp or more speed/stamina. I would not agree with giving them more slots or equipment as this spoils the distinction between assaults and logis. Logis have more options, assaults have better base stats, it should stay that way.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.03.18 11:33:00 - [102] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff. That's just not true Cal assault 300/60 Cal logi 350/78 Proto rail is 84/17 With assault bonus its 63/12.75 Cal assault 237/47.25 Cal logi 266/61 thats not even counting light weapons skill and optimization. It's easier to fit a weapon on a logi than on an assault. If you fit a sidearm to your suit your gimping your CPU and PG even more. The 25% to weapons and sidearms is completely redundant. It's not an advantage over logis in anyway. In fact it's easier to fit a weapon on a logi and a scout. there's effectively no role bonus for assault suits because that bonus is literally worthless. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2172	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:07:00 - [103] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff. That's just not true Cal assault 300/60 Cal logi 350/78 Proto rail is 84/17 With assault bonus its 63/12.75 Cal assault 237/47.25 Cal logi 266/61 thats not even counting light weapons skill and optimization. It's easier to fit a weapon on a logi than on an assault. If you fit a sidearm to your suit your gimping your CPU and PG even more. The 25% to weapons and sidearms is completely redundant. It's not an advantage over logis in anyway. In fact it's easier to fit a weapon on a logi and a scout. there's effectively no role bonus for assault suits because that bonus is literally worthless. With the possible exception of Amarr Assault (5PG O.O), I have to agree with this. My suit has shocking slot layouts. I would happily swap my 30HP for an extra slot. Even a high slot. Real men do it with missiles. "True says I have to let Lorhak yell at people in PIE GC from now on."
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 314	Posted - 2014.03.18 20:19:00 - [104] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: In terms of fittings, logis are meant to be more versatile, that's why they have more slots. I like that idea. The trade off is that logis shouldn't be able to be fitted to be as good at assaulting as assault suits. Attributes that are helpful for assaulting are maneuverability, damage, hp and weapons. I see that you have your own idea on how to balance Assaults vs. Logis, and I have no problem with that. So, why do you feel that Logis are meant to be more versatile than Assaults? I had always figured they were intended to mainly be relegated to a support role. Varoth Drac wrote: At the moment the problems are: Maneuverability* is less important than hp due to short TTK favoring slayer logis. Armour tanking is currently superior due to low TTK and op damage mods, combined with logis innate armour rep further favors slayer logis. Sidearms are less important due to low TTK. Also the proficiency changes coming in 1.8 will favor using sidearms to plug damage type shortfalls. These issues are being resolved in 1.8. You have some good points here. I am interested to see how the TTK changes in 1.8 shake things up, but I'm not very confident that it'll completely balance these suits. And I don't really see a lot of people clamoring for the Assault suit come 1.8. Varoth Drac wrote: Can I point out that the ability to move around quickly is an advantage that many people seem to under-appreciate. Ask any scout player (such as myself) what can be achieved with high mobility. In the current realm of armor logis people seem to forget this. (I also see this phenomenon in the 1.8 heavy QQ threads). This is very true. As a heavy, I'm very aware of the value mobility has, and it shouldn't be underestimated. I'd like for Assault suits to keep a higher base mobility over Logis, while losing base EHP. Varoth Drac wrote:* This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff. As has already been pointed out, this will really only be the case when Assault suits are given more CPU/PG, as right now they're even beaten in that regard by Scouts. Varoth Drac wrote: If after 1.8 people still find assault suits lacking compared to logis, assault suits should be given either more base hp or more speed/stamina. I would not agree with giving them more slots or equipment as this spoils the distinction between assaults and logis. Logis have more options, assaults have better base stats, it should stay that way. I don't see how giving Assaults more Module slots than Logis "spoils" the distinction between the two. Why "should" it stay that way, exactly? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 350	Posted - 2014.04.08 18:36:00 - [105] - Quote It occurred to me that Assault suits are, in a sense, getting jipped on their bonuses. Here's the full idea. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 30	Posted - 2014.04.08 19:38:00 - [106] - Quote I approve this idea. Amarr Victor


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