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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
290
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Posted - 2014.03.08 09:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I agree with the slot layout idea, it would give Assaults their Slayer role back. Another way to do it would be to switch the High/Low slot layout between Logi's and Assaults. Although I would drop one Low slot for the Caldari; it should be 5 Highs 3 Lows. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
294
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Posted - 2014.03.08 18:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi.
Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot.
Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 18:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea.
The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout.
Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was.
I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance.
The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 19:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:Hagintora wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi.
Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot. Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines. It does to some extent, especially with 1.8 changes. For example, the ability to carry a Mag Sec with a ScR gives the assault more flexibility to deal with both shield and armored tanked opponents. How does 1 extra slot make that big a difference in versatility? Anyway, if I have this right you want to keep current speed advantage, starting HP advantage, take one slot off of the logi, and give it to the assault and call it balance? LOL sorry, but no. What I cannot fathom about these forums is, if you think the logi is a more versatile suit, and that's what you want in a suit why not skill into logi suits? No one is stopping you. It wouldn't have anything to do with wanting to make one's particular load out choice OP would it. Assaults already are as described jack of all trades suits. Medium starting HP, medium speed, medium slot numbers, medium everything. They are the do just about everything adequately role of the battlefield and thus I think working as intended. I think it would be cool if they could carry a 2nd grenade type but otherwise think they are just fine. And BTW I am skilled to level 5 in Minmatar assault, one of the tougher assault suits to play.
One slot is the difference between suit tiers (at least for the Scout). One slot is the difference between two Shield Extenders (145.2 HP's) and three (217.8). Or that extra repper. Or Profile Dampener. One slot is difference between winning and losing. One slot is the reason that people complain about Proto stomping. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 19:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Hagintora wrote:The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. Read the first line of my post, as you seemed to not have read it. I point out that med suits slots need to be reworked. I also posted why, and how this would create balance. I am a logi and am saying that us logis should lose slots to equal the assaults. This in it self implies that I see the issue of the imbalance as it currently stands and I have proposed a well thought out solution. Pleases make sure you comprehend someones post before commenting on it.
You said that if Logi's and Assaults had equal slot layouts, that the Assault would outshine the Logi. You said that if 1 slot were taken away from the Logi that it would be combat ineffective. These two statements imply that both suits are currently balanced with one another, hence, my comment. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 20:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Hagintora wrote:You said that if Logi's and Assaults had equal slot layouts, that the Assault would outshine the Logi. You said that if 1 slot were taken away from the Logi that it would be combat ineffective. These two statements imply that both suits are currently balanced with one another, hence, my comment. I can see how my first comment might have misled you. My first post assumes the reader is tracking the OP, and I was talking in response to having one less slot than the assault. I once again want to apologize for not being clear enough. However, your first comment response to me was on the point about the current build, not taking in to acount I was talking about a fix for post 1.8. Your second response does nothing but point out I had some bad wording,and over all is nothing more than you being a troll. This is apparent by your lack of contributing to the debate, and lack of forming any rebutal. There for, any further response on your part will be ignored.
There was no troll intended, and I apologize as well if it came off that way. You are correct that I did assume I knew what you were refferring to, clearly I did not. Now that I am aware, I would say that I agree with you. One slot counts for a lot in this game, and if its loss makes the Logi ineffective, then having both suits be equal is the only logical way to go.
Again, I apologize. Trolling is not something that I do. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
295
|
Posted - 2014.03.08 20:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already
Mordecai and Doshniel also make fair a point that I had not considered. Logi's are both slower and have fewer EHP than Assaults. This should really be adjusted, as speed and HP should be proportional. If the Logi's are meant to be slower then they need higher hp's to compensate. The reverse should go for Assaults as well. If that happens then maybe it could be justified that Logi's have fewer slots than Assaults. Until then, I retract all previuos statements to the contrary. |
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