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Louis Domi
Pradox One Proficiency V.
47
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
ResistanceGTA wrote:
Logistics Ck.0
Light Weapon-1 Grenade-1 Equipment-3 High Slots-4 Low Slots-3
why does the logi cko have 2 less module slots but still only have 3 equipment slots? that would be terrible |
Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
307
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
Martyr Saboteur wrote:Summ Dude wrote:So I had the idea that maybe instead of Assaults getting slightly better overall base stats than Logis, they could just get another module slot somewhere. Suggested Medium Suit Slot Layouts Assault:Amarr: 1LW/2S/1G/1EQ/3H/5L Caldari: 1LW/1S/1G/1EQ/5H/4L Gallente: 1LW/1S/1G/2EQ/3H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1S/2G/1EQ/4H/4L Logi:Amarr: 1LW/1S/1G/3EQ/3H/4L Caldari: 1LW/1G/3EQ/5H/3L Gallente: 1LW/1G/4EQ/2H/5L Minmatar: 1LW/1G/4EQ/4H/3L So this leaves all medium suits with 13 total slots at PRO. All of the Logis get 7 module slots, except for the Caldari which gets 8, due to not having a bonus Sidearm or Equipment slot. All of the Assaults get 8 module slots, again except for the Caldari, which has 9. The Amarr Assault gets an extra Sidearm; this is in line with the Amarr Logi, and allows the suit to constantly have a weapon ready to switch to. The Gallente Assault gets a bonus Equipment slot, in keeping with Gallente's philosophy of preserving life. The Minmatar Assault gets an extra Grenade slot, as the Minmatar love explosions, and it's arguably the best with grenades due to it's speed. I guess I'll give you feedback. I don't think Assaults need to have more module slots than Logis. Ideally, Logis have the same as Assaults. I do like your idea of giving Assaults 'other' slots though. I think if just this was done, Assaults would be in a good place. Well, I'm giving Assaults and Logis the same total number of slots, including Equipment. Logis can get the extra Equipment to make them better team support units, while Assaults can get the extra module slot (note that it's only one over the respective Logi) and extra Sidearm/Equipment/Grenade slot to be more flexible units.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
537
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Posted - 2014.03.17 23:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
I think assaults (and basic mediums) just need another equipment slot and a slightly better bonus, something like a bonus to speed or efficacy of race based modules. The Gallente assault bonus should be a reduction to the speed penalty of armout plates for example.
With a second equipment slot people will already thinking about ditching the logi in order to retain some versatility and keep their sidearm, speed and basic HP. |
Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
310
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:I think assaults (and basic mediums) just need another equipment slot and a slightly better bonus, something like a bonus to speed or efficacy of race based modules. The Gallente assault bonus should be a reduction to the speed penalty of armout plates for example.
With a second equipment slot people will already thinking about ditching the logi in order to retain some versatility and keep their sidearm, speed and basic HP. But one extra Equipment slot alone still leaves the Assault with less total slots than Logis. I'm also not sure that a second Equipment slot across the board would be the most interesting thing to give Assault suits.
As for the bonuses, I'm fine with the Minmatar and Amarr Assault bonuses. I offered my suggestion for the Caldari, but I'm still not exactly sure what would work better for the Gallente. But I do like the idea of them all affecting their racial weaponry.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
471
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Posted - 2014.03.18 03:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
Equipment has nothing to do with assaulting lol. We need bonuses to tank and weapons. and a slot layout that prioritized that. Speed is negligible until speed tanking becomes viable. Ask minmatar users who say speed tanking is dead. having a small higher base speed doesn't give it any advantages over a logi.
With the state blasters are in gallente might as well get a 20% damage increase since the ar's are already the lowest dps of the rifles where it should be the highest. Or be allowed to use all hybrids. Rails are as much a gallente weapon as caldari. Idk why caldari assault can't have the quick logi shield delay and get a regulator bonus for shield tanking. give it a bigger boost to regulators than the current logi
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
471
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Posted - 2014.03.18 03:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Trying to edit: get double post. I hate using this site on my phone so laggy
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Meee One
The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day
552
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Posted - 2014.03.18 04:57:00 -
[97] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:2) Orbital Depot Drop: Assaults are the only unit capable of deploying new supply depots to the field. Unlike other units which can only drop small/large turret installations, the Assault suit is also capable of delivering a supply depot to ground forces nearby, this allows them to remain active no matter the circumstances, for a price.
Lolno,resupplying troops is a logistics responsibility.
Didn't you ever notice how all the installations colors were yellow,you know logistics colors.
I game over like a boss.
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HYENAKILLER X
WILL FIGHT ANYONE
668
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Posted - 2014.03.18 06:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Plain and simple: assaults are offensive builds based primarily on skill. Its a true military issue style suit based on the idea of "do more with less", but with bonuses.
People rip amar assaults. Perfect the scrambler rile and the amarr assaualt with scrambler is op. The scrambler rifle has the greatest reward for skill in this game.
the minmatar has 7.43 base speed. Ever fight one on elevations? Adv assault has 3 high slots. Damage mods and sheilds with that speed is a crap suit? Thats starting scout speed. But everyone wants to be a scout? The gal adv scout has 1 less high slot and same speed.
Im gallente. I run my gal assaults like scouts and am getting 20 kills a lot. 2 high 3 low is awesome. My base hp is 412 and im getting a lot done.
Caldari assault has the same as minmatar. 3 high 2 low. How does that not work on adv?
the truth is there is a large skill gap and a low average dust IQ in this player base and it can solely be blamed frustrations based on prefference and lack of creativity. The assault is incredibly versatile. Its not all tank/dps.
Thats just sloppy. And now everyone wants to be a scout? Scouts are dead the very second some one hangs back and attentively runs perimeters.
But im going gallente assault. That is the best assault with armor regen, 25% lite weapons cpu/pg reduction and 25% sharpshooter hip fire reduction.
Ide go mimatar proto assault before scout in a heart beat. 600 sheilds with that speed? Gtfo here with assault gripes.
Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
311
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Posted - 2014.03.18 08:11:00 -
[99] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Equipment has nothing to do with assaulting lol. We need bonuses to tank and weapons. and a slot layout that prioritized that. Speed is negligible until speed tanking becomes viable. Ask minmatar users who say speed tanking is dead. having a small higher base speed doesn't give it any advantages over a logi.
With the state blasters are in gallente might as well get a 20% damage increase since the ar's are already the lowest dps of the rifles where it should be the highest. Or be allowed to use all hybrids. Rails are as much a gallente weapon as caldari. Idk why caldari assault can't have the quick logi shield delay and get a regulator bonus for shield tanking. give it a bigger boost to regulators than the current logi I had suggested in the past giving the Gallente Assault a bonus to the RoF of plasma weaponry. It would benefit more than just the AR, and would actually result in an effective DPS buff. And I mean, I still don't hate this idea, it would at least be slightly better than the current 1.8 bonus I think. But I'm still not sure it's the best possible way to go, I'd really like to think of something that allows you more continuous fire/less ammo conservation required.
As for the Caldari Assault, do you have something against a bonus giving a reduction to railgun weaponry charge-up time? Assuming the RR's charge-up time was increased to at least 0.5s. I really do like the idea of all the Assault suits getting bonuses to their racial weaponry.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
311
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:02:00 -
[100] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Plain and simple: assaults are offensive builds based primarily on skill. Its a true military issue style suit based on the idea of "do more with less", but with bonuses.
People rip amar assaults. Perfect the scrambler rile and the amarr assaualt with scrambler is op. The scrambler rifle has the greatest reward for skill in this game.
the minmatar has 7.43 base speed. Ever fight one on elevations? Adv assault has 3 high slots. Damage mods and sheilds with that speed is a crap suit? Thats starting scout speed. But everyone wants to be a scout? The gal adv scout has 1 less high slot and same speed.
Im gallente. I run my gal assaults like scouts and am getting 20 kills a lot. 2 high 3 low is awesome. My base hp is 412 and im getting a lot done.
Caldari assault has the same as minmatar. 3 high 2 low. How does that not work on adv?
the truth is there is a large skill gap and a low average dust IQ in this player base and it can solely be blamed frustrations based on prefference and lack of creativity. The assault is incredibly versatile. Its not all tank/dps.
Thats just sloppy. And now everyone wants to be a scout? Scouts are dead the very second some one hangs back and attentively runs perimeters.
But im going gallente assault. That is the best assault with armor regen, 25% lite weapons cpu/pg reduction and 25% sharpshooter hip fire reduction.
Ide go mimatar proto assault before scout in a heart beat. 600 sheilds with that speed? Gtfo here with assault gripes. I did not see a single response to any suggestion or point I made during any portion of this entire thread. So.
The 1.8 Minmatar Assault movement speed is 5.3 m/s. Were you maybe referring to sprint speed? The 1.8 Gallente Scout has a movement speed of 5.45 m/s, which is....faster... Not sure where you're getting your information from.
Your ego aside, simply looking at the numbers, it's not hard to see why so many players choose to run Assault Logis over actual Assault suits. I don't see how the suit with both less Module slots and less Equipment slots is more versatile.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Varoth Drac
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
24
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:05:00 -
[101] - Quote
In terms of fittings, logis are meant to be more versatile, that's why they have more slots. I like that idea. The trade off is that logis shouldn't be able to be fitted to be as good at assaulting as assault suits. Attributes that are helpful for assaulting are maneuverability, damage, hp and weapons.
At the moment the problems are: Maneuverability* is less important than hp due to short TTK favoring slayer logis. Armour tanking is currently superior due to low TTK and op damage mods, combined with logis innate armour rep further favors slayer logis. Sidearms are less important due to low TTK. Also the proficiency changes coming in 1.8 will favor using sidearms to plug damage type shortfalls.
These issues are being resolved in 1.8.
*Can I point out that the ability to move around quickly is an advantage that many people seem to under-appreciate. Ask any scout player (such as myself) what can be achieved with high mobility. In the current realm of armor logis people seem to forget this. (I also see this phenomenon in the 1.8 heavy QQ threads).
This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff.
If after 1.8 people still find assault suits lacking compared to logis, assault suits should be given either more base hp or more speed/stamina. I would not agree with giving them more slots or equipment as this spoils the distinction between assaults and logis. Logis have more options, assaults have better base stats, it should stay that way.
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
474
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:33:00 -
[102] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff.
That's just not true
Cal assault 300/60 Cal logi 350/78 Proto rail is 84/17 With assault bonus its 63/12.75 Cal assault 237/47.25 Cal logi 266/61
thats not even counting light weapons skill and optimization. It's easier to fit a weapon on a logi than on an assault. If you fit a sidearm to your suit your gimping your CPU and PG even more.
The 25% to weapons and sidearms is completely redundant. It's not an advantage over logis in anyway. In fact it's easier to fit a weapon on a logi and a scout. there's effectively no role bonus for assault suits because that bonus is literally worthless.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Science For Death
2172
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Posted - 2014.03.18 12:07:00 -
[103] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Varoth Drac wrote: This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff.
That's just not true Cal assault 300/60 Cal logi 350/78 Proto rail is 84/17 With assault bonus its 63/12.75 Cal assault 237/47.25 Cal logi 266/61 thats not even counting light weapons skill and optimization. It's easier to fit a weapon on a logi than on an assault. If you fit a sidearm to your suit your gimping your CPU and PG even more. The 25% to weapons and sidearms is completely redundant. It's not an advantage over logis in anyway. In fact it's easier to fit a weapon on a logi and a scout. there's effectively no role bonus for assault suits because that bonus is literally worthless.
With the possible exception of Amarr Assault (5PG O.O), I have to agree with this.
My suit has shocking slot layouts. I would happily swap my 30HP for an extra slot. Even a high slot.
Real men do it with missiles.
"True says I have to let Lorhak yell at people in PIE GC from now on."
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
314
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:In terms of fittings, logis are meant to be more versatile, that's why they have more slots. I like that idea. The trade off is that logis shouldn't be able to be fitted to be as good at assaulting as assault suits. Attributes that are helpful for assaulting are maneuverability, damage, hp and weapons. I see that you have your own idea on how to balance Assaults vs. Logis, and I have no problem with that. So, why do you feel that Logis are meant to be more versatile than Assaults? I had always figured they were intended to mainly be relegated to a support role.
Varoth Drac wrote:At the moment the problems are: Maneuverability* is less important than hp due to short TTK favoring slayer logis. Armour tanking is currently superior due to low TTK and op damage mods, combined with logis innate armour rep further favors slayer logis. Sidearms are less important due to low TTK. Also the proficiency changes coming in 1.8 will favor using sidearms to plug damage type shortfalls.
These issues are being resolved in 1.8. You have some good points here. I am interested to see how the TTK changes in 1.8 shake things up, but I'm not very confident that it'll completely balance these suits. And I don't really see a lot of people clamoring for the Assault suit come 1.8.
Varoth Drac wrote:*Can I point out that the ability to move around quickly is an advantage that many people seem to under-appreciate. Ask any scout player (such as myself) what can be achieved with high mobility. In the current realm of armor logis people seem to forget this. (I also see this phenomenon in the 1.8 heavy QQ threads). This is very true. As a heavy, I'm very aware of the value mobility has, and it shouldn't be underestimated. I'd like for Assault suits to keep a higher base mobility over Logis, while losing base EHP.
Varoth Drac wrote:This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff. As has already been pointed out, this will really only be the case when Assault suits are given more CPU/PG, as right now they're even beaten in that regard by Scouts.
Varoth Drac wrote:If after 1.8 people still find assault suits lacking compared to logis, assault suits should be given either more base hp or more speed/stamina. I would not agree with giving them more slots or equipment as this spoils the distinction between assaults and logis. Logis have more options, assaults have better base stats, it should stay that way. I don't see how giving Assaults more Module slots than Logis "spoils" the distinction between the two. Why "should" it stay that way, exactly?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
350
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:36:00 -
[105] - Quote
It occurred to me that Assault suits are, in a sense, getting jipped on their bonuses. Here's the full idea.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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Isa Lucifer
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
30
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:38:00 -
[106] - Quote
I approve this idea.
Amarr Victor
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