DUST Search - Giving the Assault Suit a More Defined Role Post-1.8

Hagintora wrote:

Doshneil Antaro wrote:

I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea.

The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout.

Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was.

I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance.

The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty.

Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.


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Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 854	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:10:00 - [1] - Quote Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:53:00 - [2] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Give the assault suits a second grenade slot, a CPU/PG bonus to equip a second type of grenade and leave the rest be. You have less slots because you have the sidearm slot , its what makes them versatile, they are also faster than everything but scouts and have better starting EHP than logi. Sidearms aren't what make a suit versatile. Look at the Logi if you don't believe me. Slot layout creates diversity. Switch the slot layout between the Assault and the Logi, remove the Assaults equipment slot, but give them an extra grenade slot. Now you have a suit that can take on Infantry and Vehicles (but not as well as a Commando). It can defend points (but not as well as a Sentinel). It can move from objective to objective quickly (but not as well as a Scout). The only thing the Assault Suit isn't, in this model, is self sufficient. They require the reps/resupply/scans from the more utilitarian suits (Logi's and Scouts), to be able to keep pushing at the front lines. It does to some extent, especially with 1.8 changes. For example, the ability to carry a Mag Sec with a ScR gives the assault more flexibility to deal with both shield and armored tanked opponents. How does 1 extra slot make that big a difference in versatility? Anyway, if I have this right you want to keep current speed advantage, starting HP advantage, take one slot off of the logi, and give it to the assault and call it balance? LOL sorry, but no. What I cannot fathom about these forums is, if you think the logi is a more versatile suit, and that's what you want in a suit why not skill into logi suits? No one is stopping you. It wouldn't have anything to do with wanting to make one's particular load out choice OP would it. Assaults already are as described jack of all trades suits. Medium starting HP, medium speed, medium slot numbers, medium everything. They are the do just about everything adequately role of the battlefield and thus I think working as intended. I think it would be cool if they could carry a 2nd grenade type but otherwise think they are just fine. And BTW I am skilled to level 5 in Minmatar assault, one of the tougher assault suits to play. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:57:00 - [3] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: I like the ideas, the cal assault bonus blows lmao honestly I'd take anything over reloading... I don't miss often so faster reloading doesn't effect me one bit...maybe all assault bonuses should increase their faction weapons rof or DMG.. Hell maybe even range tho the minmatar and amarr bonuses are good. Agreed that the new Cal assault bonus sucks. A reduction to hybrid rail charge up time would have been cool but probably OP. Reduction to shield recharge delay might have been decent. Heck I would have taken the 2% to shield extenders per level over the reload bonus. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 18:58:00 - [4] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Doshneil Antaro wrote: I do agree that the med suit slot layouts need reworking, but I believe making the H/L even between the assaults and logi is the best for both. On paper it does sound like a good idea to make total slot count the same, but I will go over why this is a bad idea. The Logi is already slower, has less eHP, and reduced combat efficiency due to lack of a sidearm. With these differences in mind, a slayer logi with the same modules as an assault player would be inferior if both had the same H/L layout. Now if we take away 1 extra slot from the logi, and it is completely combat ineffective. It would be to slow to run away from a fight, not enough tank to survive the fight, and not enough firepower to win a fight. This would lead the logi to be in worse shape than the pre 1.8 scout ever was. I think with an even H/L slots count, better base combat stats, as well as a bonus to killing, would define the assault class, as well as make it superior to any slayer logi. This creates balance. The implication of your post would suggest, then, that Assaults are currently equal to Logi's in versatility, and power. If that were true, we'd see more people using Assaults, and Slayer Logi's would be more of a novelty. They are if you don't completely suck and assault is still found on the battlefield in at least equal numbers to logi suits but their are multiple factors that go into that. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 857	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:33:00 - [5] - Quote It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 859	Posted - 2014.03.08 20:55:00 - [6] - Quote Hagintora wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: It seems that to CCP a side arm is worth at least 2 slots. Compare Amarr logi to all other logi. All the other logos get 2 more slots of some type than Amarr. So in a sense assault suits are getting a bonus slot already Mordecai and Doshniel also make fair a point that I had not considered. Logi's are both slower and have fewer EHP than Assaults. This should really be adjusted, as speed and HP should be proportional. If the Logi's are meant to be slower then they need higher hp's to compensate. The reverse should go for Assaults as well. If that happens then maybe it could be justified that Logi's have fewer slots than Assaults. Until then, I retract all previuos statements to the contrary. Rational discussion and give and take is not allowed on the internets, especially not these forums buddy Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 895	Posted - 2014.03.11 21:11:00 - [7] - Quote I keep telling people not to discount the new general assault bonus. With maxed light weapons and sidearms and maxed fitting optimization we'll be fitting proto weapons at the CPU/PG cost of advanced and fitting specialist weapons at the cost of standard Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.