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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
403
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Posted - 2014.03.10 06:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
If we add midslots and open up highs to weapons it simplifies things a bit. Max of 8 slots
You can have high slot mods or use the equipment, weapon, grenade hardpoints. Shields go back to mid, speed mods move up to mids.
Caldari 4-7-3 Amarr 4-2-8 Min 4-5-5 Galente 4-3-7
The four highs can be used as you want but you get 1 main hard point, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment. Use a gun and 3 high mods, or use gun sidearm equipment and trade a grenade for a high slot mod. whatever you can think of.
Logis would have 5-7 highs, with 3-4 equipment hardpoints. You don't have to run a gun even.
Amarr get their heavy armor focus, minmatar are versatile, gallente favor armor, caldari favor shields. Everyones happy, just gotta fix the mod layouts, we can play with them as needed. Now, we add resistances in lows obviously. Damage mods get they're racial designation and go low. one mod for laser damage, one for projectile, etc, etc. can go back to 10% at proto to help against damage resists. Scale to ccps tastes.
Also standard frames get two bonus. None of this no role specialization garbage. Then assaults get two bonuses based on their medium skill, and two based on assault. Weapons get rebalanced to account for more health and more robust bonuses. |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
404
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Posted - 2014.03.10 09:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:If we add midslots and open up highs to weapons it simplifies things a bit. Max of 8 slots
You can have high slot mods or use the equipment, weapon, grenade hardpoints. Shields go back to mid, speed mods move up to mids.
Caldari 4-7-3 Amarr 4-2-8 Min 4-5-5 Galente 4-3-7
The four highs can be used as you want but you get 1 main hard point, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment. Use a gun and 3 high mods, or use gun sidearm equipment and trade a grenade for a high slot mod. whatever you can think of.
Logis would have 5-7 highs, with 3-4 equipment hardpoints. You don't have to run a gun even.
Amarr get their heavy armor focus, minmatar are versatile, gallente favor armor, caldari favor shields. Everyones happy, just gotta fix the mod layouts, we can play with them as needed. Now, we add resistances in lows obviously. Damage mods get they're racial designation and go low. one mod for laser damage, one for projectile, etc, etc. can go back to 10% at proto to help against damage resists. Scale to ccps tastes.
Also standard frames get two bonus. None of this no role specialization garbage. Then assaults get two bonuses based on their medium skill, and two based on assault. Weapons get rebalanced to account for more health and more robust bonuses.
to clarify on assault bonuses.
If I'm level 5 medium and level 3 assault. I get 5% to A and B per medium level I get 5% to C and 4% to D per assault A+25% B+25% C+15% D+12%
Standard medium suits would get they're own unique a and b but no c or d. What those letters actually represent varies on a suit to suit basis and by race. I don't mean to be rude, but that was far from simple. I don't play Eve, for the record. And while I have nothing against borrowing aspects of Eve if they'll work well for Dust, I don't believe that just copy and pasting every mechanic is necessarily the way to go.
I meant more so that it's simpler to use what we know works than try to salvage a system that doesn't appear to be working. What dust is doing right now is basically turning everything on it's head. amarr can't armor tank like they should, minmatar say their suits are useless. This alleviates much of that and opens the game up to the depth an mmofps within eve should have. Trying to cram it into 2 groups of 5 is much harder than working with the 8-8-8 system. at least I think so. It adds more variety among suits also. There's still chunks missing and if were gonna fill it in and add new stuff to compliment fps mechanics 5-5 just doesn't work. There's not enough room. |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
405
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Posted - 2014.03.10 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meee One wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Meee One wrote:Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses.
I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post.
Speed doesn't mean anything. The regen on assaults is nothing. Caldari shields should rep passively and gallente should be able to achieve 40-50 armor reps. Gallente can't even active tank. Amarr can't resist tank.
Logis are simply better assaults at the moment. If speed mattered more than three people would run proto min assault. |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
411
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Posted - 2014.03.11 08:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Meee One wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Meee One wrote:Was expecting a thread by assault class users about getting relevant bonuses.
I found a thread screaming "we're jealous of logis and we want their slots". ....I find the "we" part of that kinda funny. Nothing constructive or useful then? Says the person who refuses to acknowledge this thread relating to dropsuit changes. It shows assaults are faster AND better tanked with GREATER regen ability (base stats),yet you still want to steal a slot from logis. Protip:Check the 2nd post. Speed doesn't mean anything. The regen on assaults is nothing. Caldari shields should rep passively and gallente should be able to achieve 40-50 armor reps. Gallente can't even active tank. Amarr can't resist tank. Logis are simply better assaults at the moment. If speed mattered more than three people would run proto min assault. Speed and regen will be relevant in 1.8 with the adjusted TTK. A fast suit will be able to break contact and get to cover to regen. This whole topic on balancing is off track, as all of the suggested ideas are assuming game play will be exactly the same after the next patch. -á Damage mods at the old values combined with extra mod slots is why everyone went logi in the first place. At the start of 1.8, the extra mod slots is too much still, but the assaults new bonuses will help almost even it out. After which, we do need to make all the med suits equal in H/L slots. This allows the logi to still overcome the speed, regen, and tank differences the assault has, but will never be able to attain as much of either.-á With one less H/L slots EVEN with buffs to the stats of the logi, and the logi will have no choices in how to build their suits. All mods slots would be devoted to tank only. This would still leave us with less ehp than what is achievable by assaults, less effective regen abilities, as well as being slow moving ducks waddling around, with not enough firepower to survive. This would make this suit a novelty for the rich isk/sp players only.-á All med suits all the core should be the same. The only differences should be the logi gets more equipment and reduced speed to the extra weight, and differences in class bonuses. This means regen, HP, stamina and H/L need to be the same across the board. They should be the same suits, with just minor modifications that allow them to perform in there specialty effectively. Assaults bonuses to their weapon and ability to carry a sidearm makes the combat superior to killing the logi, even the amar with their sidearm. The logis slower speed makes them sitting ducks, but they can put out equipment to help their team effectively.-á A high slot with shield extender is greater than a uplink. A low slot with an armor plate is greater than a rep tool. A sidearm is greater than nanoinjector. These are reasons why we cannot count total slots of a suit, and have to treat them as just part of the specialization bonus the suit gets. The only reason to have a different slot layout would be if the were their own tree and type of suit. As it is, to try out a logi, you have to spec into the basic med. This is basically an assault suit stripped of the role bonus. This implies these are the same suits, and should be built at the core the same. This would balance the two specializations out.
What are you talking about lol? A gallente suit can't get 50 reps-á I want active tanking with my armor repping during gunfights as I get hit.-á5hp per second is an insult. The new bonuses are terrible unless your amarr or minmatar. Nothings gonna get evened out. The caldari bonus is garbage and so is the 25% CPU/pg reduction for sidearm and light weapons. It's the same thing as a 25% equipment reduction. if theirs a CPU pg reduction it needs to be for racial weaponry on that suit. Unless speed values have been changed greatly the spee difference between a logi and assault suit will continue to not matter.
Read my restructure up above of what assaults should be lol. Logis only share the same suit model because Ccp shanghai is inept. We should have 4-5 unique medium suits like eve has for cruisers of every race alone with the tech 2 version which is the assault/logi-áEach one has a different slot layout, stats, and role.-álogis have too many mod slots, assault should have more than a logi because logi gets equipment. I don't use sidearms, they're for people who can't kill with their main weapon, I don't need one on my assault suit. I'd prefer an optional assault suit with more slot space and no sidearm.
If your saying they're built the same why do logis get more slots and more equipment.-áProto gal logi has 4 equipment, 3 highs and 5 lows. Proto-ágal assault has 1, 3, 4.-áNo reason why assault shouldn't have the 5th low and logi gets 4 since it has the 4 equipment slots.-á what I wrote in my restructure doesn't change gameplay. It fixes it. I left out capacitors and active mods (which we need) We need to make the game more like eve. The assaults are worthless until theirs a slot change or significant bonus change (minus amir because they actually have a really good bonus)
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
412
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Posted - 2014.03.13 00:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout. |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
416
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Posted - 2014.03.13 05:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:amarr needs to have more slots. 1 more low and 1 less high than gallente at least. Minmatar should have the even slot layout. I'm not against that. Honestly I was more concerned with balancing slots overall then the specific High/Low layout. But, I might add more specific layouts to flesh out the idea a bit, if I have the time.
Slots overall? As in 2 equipment slots and 1 low versus 2 lows and 1 equip slot? |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
417
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Posted - 2014.03.13 07:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Assaults should be the jack of all trades but master of none in my opinion. Thus it should have the slot layout to support said ideology.
That's the standard light-medium-heavy frame. Not the assault.Assault is specialized. You need to be good at killing and taking damage. Like a tech two cruiser.
It's supposed to be the slayer suit. Good at assaulting, being on the front line in the carnage pushing the battle.
Killing, being fast, killing, eating damage and more killing, |
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
447
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Posted - 2014.03.15 07:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:SuitsEach starter fit would have a static bonus and each bonus would be different from the others in that race. That static bonus would reflect one of that race's style. Amarr bonus would be to energy weapons and armor and Caldari would be more focused on shield and ranged combat and so on. The slots can be slightly different in the starters but mostly the same When we move to the light frames each suit would get a per level of light frame bonus. Similar slots to the starter. Light Advanced frames would get a per level of light frame bonus and a per level of scout bonus. These bonuses would be different than the standard frame per level bonuses to give them their specialty. The standard may have 5% per level to armor mods but the advanced would have 5% to armor repairer per level and 3% reduction in armor repairer CPU. There are Two Light suits in the tree I made and both would have different bonuses given on the suit and per level of skill. Light Prototype suits would have a static bonus and two unique bonus per level but it would come with a missing slot or a slot moved to high from low, anything to make it different to almost the point of gimping if not used within its role. Giving a suit an extra sidearm or grenade slot would be a perfect way to give a proto suit a unique feel as long as it comes with some type of drawback.
The pic is too small and blurry. I can't tell what it is
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
448
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Posted - 2014.03.15 10:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:bamboo x wrote:Joel II X wrote:The thing about the Gallente Assault is that it only benefits one weapon: the AR.
How is a shotgun going to benefit? Plasma Cannon? Perhaps Ion Pistol will, too. So only half of their weapons. I'd say we get a RoF increase to match our assault style (it's the Gallente's niche) Take a second to forget about Dust and think about other FPS games. I always hated the shotgun, because the range is horrendous. It's less of a shotgun and more of a portable shrapnel launcher. I'd love to see how this turns out for shotguns because REAL shotguns have short to medium range, not short to point blank. This is pretty unrelated, but it's worth saying: What happens in real life has no bearing on this game, at all. I don't care what a real world assault rifle can do. Because in Dust, we're not shooting real world assault rifles at real world infantry. We're shooting future space guns that actually fire ionized plasma bolts at mercenaries in high-tech super space Iron Man suits. Real life doesn't really mean squat.
Don't forget that the bonus in no way boosts te shotguns range which makes the range perspective redundant. Though I agree shotguns need to be effective at longer ranges. Shotgun needs alot of work actually lol, higher turn speed, new iron sights... List goes on. But yeah not much to do with the assault suit because that bonus is god awful and doesn't help the plasma cannon or ion pistol either.
Arguing realism is silly. If anything weapons from the future should completely out perform real weapons. no kick, near perfect accuracy, lightweight. Given 30000 years well come up with creative solutions to kill each other more effectively. Shotguns night as well light people on fire while were at it. It's plasma afterall. Idk why everyone wants it to be like other fps games. This is new Eden. Dust should strive to be better than that.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
471
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Posted - 2014.03.18 03:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Equipment has nothing to do with assaulting lol. We need bonuses to tank and weapons. and a slot layout that prioritized that. Speed is negligible until speed tanking becomes viable. Ask minmatar users who say speed tanking is dead. having a small higher base speed doesn't give it any advantages over a logi.
With the state blasters are in gallente might as well get a 20% damage increase since the ar's are already the lowest dps of the rifles where it should be the highest. Or be allowed to use all hybrids. Rails are as much a gallente weapon as caldari. Idk why caldari assault can't have the quick logi shield delay and get a regulator bonus for shield tanking. give it a bigger boost to regulators than the current logi
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
471
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Posted - 2014.03.18 03:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Trying to edit: get double post. I hate using this site on my phone so laggy
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance
474
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Posted - 2014.03.18 11:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: This combined with the bonuses to weapon fitting on assaults (think about this, you want to fit your proto assault rail rifle? Easier on an assault suit) should give assault suits the role currently taken by slayer logis, i.e. assaulting stuff.
That's just not true
Cal assault 300/60 Cal logi 350/78 Proto rail is 84/17 With assault bonus its 63/12.75 Cal assault 237/47.25 Cal logi 266/61
thats not even counting light weapons skill and optimization. It's easier to fit a weapon on a logi than on an assault. If you fit a sidearm to your suit your gimping your CPU and PG even more.
The 25% to weapons and sidearms is completely redundant. It's not an advantage over logis in anyway. In fact it's easier to fit a weapon on a logi and a scout. there's effectively no role bonus for assault suits because that bonus is literally worthless.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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