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KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4504	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:42:00 - [1] - Quote I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. TY for reading Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9165	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:43:00 - [2] - Quote Level 9 forum warrior approved. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 230	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:46:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. Closed Beta Vet since July, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4505	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:50:00 - [4] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. I think the TANKING bonuses on Gallente and Caldari i proposed are in line with Amarr LAser DPS bonus and Minmatar explosive weapon buffs. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9166	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:51:00 - [5] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. The Callogis problem was not that it had a strong bonus, it was that it had a strong bonus in addition to the best slot layout in the game as well as a ton of CPU/PG and equipment. Also, considering the sheer power of the offensive bonuses on the others I think it would be fine. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2272	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:52:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. I think the TANKING bonuses on Gallente and Caldari i proposed are in line with Amarr LAser DPS bonus and Minmatar explosive weapon buffs. or everyone get a DPS bounus of some sort I see assaults as being like attack frigs not like combat frigs. Listen I'll change the song every week
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4505	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:55:00 - [7] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. I think the TANKING bonuses on Gallente and Caldari i proposed are in line with Amarr LAser DPS bonus and Minmatar explosive weapon buffs. or everyone get a DPS bounus of some sort I see assaults as being like attack frigs not like combat frigs. The Gal & Cal bonuses helping TANKING give you VERSATILITY. = A Cal Assault will be able to (for example) Use 2 CX Shield Extenders and 2 Cx Damage mods without loosing too much HP. The GAll assault will be able to use 2 ENh Armor paltes , 1 Cx Armor rep and a complex profile dampener,without loosing too much Hp.. ETC... So basically, it gives you the OPTION to either massively tank or use your assault for a different purpose without loosing too much EHP which Assault need to fulfill their purpose AND will need in order to deal with Commandos and Sentinels past 1.8. Plus, what do you prefer, these bonuses? Or the RELOAD / Dispersion bonuses CCP is currently proposing...? Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution 1905	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:58:00 - [8] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. TY for reading Sorry bud but that gallente bonus is not getting approved by me Charlotte O'Dell is a liar, that's only a piece of corn & I'm the one and only majestic unicorn.
Mr Machine Guns Nyain San Renegade Alliance 427	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:58:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Really, why can't everyone just have decent bonuses? I mean... Reload speed? Really? On a rail rifle? When is that significant at all? Dispersion reduction is distinctly meh, and I've avoided training sharpshooter 5 on the PR simply due to the usefulness of the dispersion in some cases. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses are both fun and effective bonuses. It'd be nice if everyone could have good bonuses like that - these suggestions cover that nicely. If they -have- to be weaponry specific for some arbitrary reason then perhaps a spool-up/charge time reduction for rail weaponry (RR, MSMG, BP, SR) would be useful on the Callassault, and... something that affects more than just the PR in a meh fashion for the Gallente assault. While I loathe to suggest a straight up damage bonus, it'd help its CQC role. Yeah its funny the reload bonus because they are giving to a weapon CCP said they were nerfing too, just keep the Caldari bonus as it is because just 66 HP for proto shield extender is garbage but with the bonus i get 80 HP, if they go with this reload bonus one of two things need to occur a respec or a buff to shield extender numbers
Seigfried Warheit Caught Me With My Pants Down 185	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:58:00 - [10] - Quote I do like the bonus compared to the reload bonus but I would really like a bonus for gallente and caldari that makes their weapons more effective in their hands compared to other suits just like the minnie and amarr have.... I love the minnie and amarr bonuses cause it does that

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12966	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:59:00 - [11] - Quote I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 230	Posted - 2014.02.09 00:59:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. I think the TANKING bonuses on Gallente and Caldari i proposed are in line with Amarr LAser DPS bonus and Minmatar explosive weapon buffs. or everyone get a DPS bounus of some sort I see assaults as being like attack frigs not like combat frigs. The Gal & Cal bonuses helping TANKING give you VERSATILITY. = A Cal Assault will be able to (for example) Use 2 CX Shield Extenders and 2 Cx Damage mods without loosing too much HP. The GAll assault will be able to use 2 ENh Armor paltes , 1 Cx Armor rep and a complex profile dampener,without loosing too much Hp.. ETC... So basically, it gives you the OPTION to either massively tank or use your assault for a different purpose without loosing too much EHP which Assault need to fulfill their purpose AND will need in order to deal with Commandos and Sentinels past 1.8. Plus, what do you prefer, these bonuses? Or the RELOAD / Dispersion bonuses CCP is currently proposing...? Your bonuses are preferable, but still too strong. A 3% bonus is much more sane. Closed Beta Vet since July, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9167	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:03:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Ekrano Fergus Molon Labe. 21	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:08:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. How good will you be in combat if you're dead. /)_/) ( . .) C(") (")
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2178	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:08:00 - [15] - Quote I love it it. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12967	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:11:00 - [16] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? Its dead. Hence the term Alpha tanking. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2179	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:11:00 - [17] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. TY for reading Sorry bud but that gallente bonus is not getting approved by me Why not? We get to tank and heal, you guys get to hurt and kill. Win-win. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9168	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:12:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? its dead. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses are entirely sufficient gank bonuses. The clip size bonus will be devastating on the CR especially should the damage output be nerfed, and the overheat bonus does frightening things to the SCR. So why not? ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12967	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:16:00 - [19] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? its dead. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses are entirely sufficient gank bonuses. The clip size bonus will be devastating on the CR especially should the damage output be nerfed, and the overheat bonus does frightening things to the SCR. So why not? Because its unfair and confusing that HALF a class isn't part of the class. What is purposed here is equitable to half of the sentinels getting resistances and the other half weapon bonuses. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ReGnYuM Escrow Removal and Acquisition 2094	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:17:00 - [20] - Quote IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset I Slay, for thy Empress Do you even PC... Brah

KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4508	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:19:00 - [21] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. TY for reading Sorry bud but that gallente bonus is not getting approved by me Please people, restrict to the suit YOU USE. The point is for everyone to be HAPPY. ;) Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 174	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:20:00 - [22] - Quote It's rather hard to propose a good potential bonus for the RR, as in its current form any bonus would just make it more ridiculous, and we don't know what the new numbers will be, so projecting a bonus is more difficult than it is for the likes of Amarr weaponry, where heat should always be a factor. That reload bonus would be nice for snipers, though. Still think bonuses should be racial tank + racial gank, anyway (though imo they should be applied race-wide with smaller base %, then enhanced where appropriate by certain racial role bonuses). Plates + Laser Amarr, Reps + Plasma Gal, Ext + Rail/Missile Cal, Biotics and/or omni regen + Projectile/Explosive Min.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4508	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:21:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2179	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:23:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? its dead. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses are entirely sufficient gank bonuses. The clip size bonus will be devastating on the CR especially should the damage output be nerfed, and the overheat bonus does frightening things to the SCR. So why not? Because its unfair and confusing that HALF a class isn't part of the class. What is purposed here is equitable to half of the sentinels getting resistances and the other half weapon bonuses. yes, but the sentinel is less flexible due to the slot set up. Gallente will output least dmg but will have most tank Caldari will have most gank Minmatar will have 2nd highest gank, most speed and least ehp. And Amarr will be most balanced. The bonuses are about the same but the suit themselves are limited. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 303	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:23:00 - [25] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. That is completely arbitrary and bullcrap at that. Tanking/survivability is the other side of the coin when it comes to combat. Assaulting is about bringing the fight to the opposition, not strictly defined as running around as a glass cannon that's a minmatar thing. 32db Mad Bomber.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4508	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:24:00 - [26] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? Its dead. Hence the term Alpha tanking. Because the Min can use SPEED to their advantage, nullifying the need for extreme gank. The amarr have DPS becasue they are already the most HP of any assault with 450 EHP without modules at lv 5 passives. CAl and Gal DONT have these advantages. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Oswald Rehnquist 1227	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:25:00 - [27] - Quote Why not just rechargers / repairers bonuses this should separate it from the tank class as it then becomes more of a regen class which is different than brick tanking Below 28 dB
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4508	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:28:00 - [28] - Quote Oswald Rehnquist wrote: Why not just rechargers / repairers bonuses this should separate it from the tank class as it then becomes more of a regen class which is different thank brick tanking This is a great proposal, but effectiveness would have to be increased at least to 10% per level. On other notes, i basically took MIN & AMA current bonuses and mixed them with the PREVIOUS BONUSES CCP presented. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12972	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:30:00 - [29] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are. They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths. Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch. What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus. The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though. Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses. Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types. Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting. Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide. All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames. If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2273	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:32:00 - [30] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? Its dead. Hence the term Alpha tanking. Because the Min can use SPEED to their advantage, nullifying the need for extreme tank. The amarr have DPS becasue they have already the most HP of any assault with 450 EHP without modules at lv 5 passives. CAl and Gal DONT have these advantages. Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again, I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant. Listen I'll change the song every week

Ripcord19981 KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND Legacy Rising 418	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:32:00 - [31] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? Its dead. Hence the term Alpha tanking. Because the Min can use SPEED to their advantage, nullifying the need for extreme tank. The amarr have DPS becasue they have already the most HP of any assault with 450 EHP without modules at lv 5 passives. CAl and Gal DONT have these advantages. what good is speed if ttk is so low and ur f**cked if you are shot at because you can't outrun the AA. It makes me twitch every time someone mentions that the Minmatar has speed so its fine and they are balanced. A tanked out Suit can make it to cover to rep back up and go back into the fight. The speed tanked Minmatar would be dead as soon as the first few shots hit. I can only please one person per day. Today is not ur day, tomorrow doesn't look too bright either. Turkey sammich>taco
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12972	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:34:00 - [32] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4509	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:34:00 - [33] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again, I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything about speed tanking. But more speed and Stamina than your opponents give you higher flanking or retreat opportunities taht are STILL very valid combat tactics. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4509	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:36:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place. Reload speed does not help at all at killing the enemy faster since its not a DPS bonus,nor Rof,nor clip size,etc... Better hipfire is relative and situational, more HP is not. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12972	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:38:00 - [35] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place. Reload speed does not help at all at killing the enemy faster since its not a DPS bonus,nor Rof,nor clip size,etc... Better hipfire is relative and situational, more HP is not. More HP is always situational though even in the old TTK environments more HP was rather situational because there are so many times that extra 120 hp was not going to save your posterior. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2274	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:40:00 - [36] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again, I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything about speed tanking. But more speed and Stamina than your opponents give you higher flanking or retreat opportunities taht are STILL very valid combat tactics. You don't run Cal or Gal Assault with their racial rifles in PC correct? I don't want the bonuses CCP is offering but I don't like the ones you're offering either. I want a gank bonus to the Gal and Cal Assaults. Listen I'll change the song every week
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 484	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:40:00 - [37] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading Again checkmate, agree with you 100% +13463452352355345.7 Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Ekrano Fergus Molon Labe. 22	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:40:00 - [38] - Quote The main issue I have with the Caldari bonus is that the other 3 assault suits get something that helps during a fight, while caldari would still be better off switching to a sidearm. There is also the fact that it shares it's bonus with 4 other suits that do more damage and have more base health. /)_/) ( . .) C(") (")
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 484	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:41:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place. Reload speed does not help at all at killing the enemy faster since its not a DPS bonus,nor Rof,nor clip size,etc... Better hipfire is relative and situational, more HP is not. More HP is always situational though even in the old TTK environments more HP was rather situational because there are so many times that extra 120 hp was not going to save your posterior. HP being always situational is like saying having the ability to fire your gun is always situational Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4510	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:42:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying: ''the best offense is a good defense'' ? The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........ The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place. Reload speed does not help at all at killing the enemy faster since its not a DPS bonus,nor Rof,nor clip size,etc... Better hipfire is relative and situational, more HP is not. More HP is always situational though even in the old TTK environments more HP was rather situational because there are so many times that extra 120 hp was not going to save your posterior. That makes Reload speed and hipfire even more situational then! Look.Im just trying to get good bonuses for ALL assaults, if i was like the rest of the comunity , now that they announced the Amarr Assault bonus is staying, i would say , LOL F* y'all, too bad gal & Cal, better luck next time. Im just trying to get some blaance going so people are happy. But it seems between you and some others, they prefer reload and Hipfire over tanking capabilities. I was just thinking what would I like to have if i played Cal or Gal. I was just using Bonuses PREVIOUSLY mentioned by you guys... So be it, im happy with my A.Assault anyways.... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029

KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4510	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:44:00 - [41] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again, I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything about speed tanking. But more speed and Stamina than your opponents give you higher flanking or retreat opportunities taht are STILL very valid combat tactics. You don't run Cal or Gal Assault with their racial rifles in PC correct? I don't want the bonuses CCP is offering but I don't like the ones you're offering either. I want a gank bonus to the Gal and Cal Assaults. FAir enough. I'll drop it. I now actually hope Cal and Gal keep their current bonus.... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1859	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:46:00 - [42] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are. They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths. Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch. What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus. The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though. Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses. Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types. Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting. Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide. All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames. If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains. These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon. The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns. But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault. Armor and Shields are not the same!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8964	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:47:00 - [43] - Quote While I think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are lacking, I would prefer if they stayed with offensive bonuses instead of defensive bonuses, since that is what assaults are about. I agree with IWS. Regarding the Caldari bonus specifically. I don't think the reload bonus is nearly as appealing as some of the others, I would bundle (kind of like how Minmatar scout is getting hacking speed and knife damage bundled in one bonus) it with an ammo reserves bonus, and a kick reduction bonus to make it more useful. Maybe even an effective range bonus, if the rail weapons get an effective range reduction to compensate. I guess I would also be fine with the reload bonus being bundled with a 3% shield module efficacy or recharge bonus, as long as they also keep a weapon related bonus for hybrid-railgun weapons. As for the Gallente bonus, The dispersion thing might be useful for the AR, shotgun, and ion pistol (a good majority of the Gallente weapons), but I'm not exactly sure how useful it is; it certainly pales in comparison to the Minmatar and Amarr bonus. Perhaps bonus bundling should also be done for the Gallente bonus, or just give it a ROF bonus. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4510	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:48:00 - [44] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are. They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths. Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch. What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus. The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though. Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses. Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types. Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting. Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide. All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames. If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains. These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon. The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns. But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault. Every commando has the CAldari Bonus But for ALL light weapons, just saying... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2274	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:52:00 - [45] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again, I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant. Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything about speed tanking. But more speed and Stamina than your opponents give you higher flanking or retreat opportunities taht are STILL very valid combat tactics. You don't run Cal or Gal Assault with their racial rifles in PC correct? I don't want the bonuses CCP is offering but I don't like the ones you're offering either. I want a gank bonus to the Gal and Cal Assaults. FAir enough. I'll drop it. I now actually hope Cal and Gal keep their current bonus.... And I'll keep running Gal Scout and out doing Amarr Scouts in my sleep. Listen I'll change the song every week
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2801	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:52:00 - [46] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators - Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading Please remember that TTK is getting raised. I don't want TTK to get raised and then watch Cal Assaults and Gal Assaults eHP stacking so high it will take 2 clips to take them down. Dump the Extender and Plate bonus and put something else on, Regulators and Repairers are what need buffs anyways. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
David Spd Caldari State 124	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:52:00 - [47] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Even with as messed up as it initially sounds, I also found this statement to make a hell of a lot of sense. Since you specifically said "plates and extenders", does this mean you are against the idea of say... Regulators or Rechargers? In my opinion Assaults being "combat oriented" also means that.. theoretically they are exposed to more direct combat than other suits. I'm a Caldari Assault main that prefers mid to long ranged engagements (and was even during the "Slayer Logi" debacle) I find faster and more efficient shield recharge to be surprisingly more effective for "skirmish" type play than simply attempting to "out-tank" your opponent. As a Caldari using a Caldari Rifle, I was a lot better at doing what I was "supposed to" with this type of fitting. Obviously not having bonuses to Extenders as Caldari kind of sucks, but at the same time we shouldn't be in the kind of situations where extender stacking is absolutely necessary to ensure survival. Hopefully 1.8 will shift suit roles and playstyles into a much more..."focused" area than currently. I may come off as a bit arrogant with my next statement, and with the game being as messed up as it is I am somewhat wrong, but at the same time I feel like I need to say it. Assaults (Caldari in particular) need a mixture of damage, defense and mobility to do what they need to do. Just enough survival to not be scouts, and just enough damage to not be Sentinels. We have to sacrifice something, and the current build's "Stack defenses or die without doing anything" is a part of the messed up time to kill. As far as I understand it, the logic behind the Caldari reload is to encourage aggression and "Assault" type gameplay. We don't know 100% what the TTK is going to be in 1.8, nor do we know how all these moving parts are going to affect one another. At first glance the reload bonus seems a bit pointless, but at the same time it may both be necessary to compensate for the Rail Rifle nerf, and also help Caldari soldiers keep pressure on their targets at the distance the weapon is intended to be used. Caldari typically have higher shields than the other races (if EVE is the example that is being followed) so we all ready start ahead of them in terms of immediate defenses. CCP seems to be building suit bonuses under the impression that you're going to be playing as a certain race, wielding that race's weapon. So Caldari will have a powerful mid-ranged weapon, higher base shields and be able to reload their weapon faster than most other races (thanks to the bonus). The Rail rifle tends to reload fairly slowly without heavy skill investment otherwise. That to me sounds like quite a dangerous combination. The only way it would be underwhelming is if you're playing the game in 1.8 the way you play the game now: as a frontline Caldari soldier stacking shield extenders and nothing else. Think outside the box for a little while. Read some of the other threads CCP has made, and try looking up Iron Wolf Saber's thread about the mantras. Also keep in mind that IWS has access to information that WE don't, and also tends to drop some clues about content under NDA that has more than once landed him in hot water. He's trying to tell us, a lot of people are just really not paying attention or listening. CCP has always called Dust 514 a "thinking man's shooter" but there hasn't been a whole lot of anything to think about. I get the feeling 1.8 will change that based on the information we've been getting so far. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 485	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:53:00 - [48] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon. The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns. But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault. The gallente bonus is the best bonus of them all..... Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4513	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:55:00 - [49] - Quote I was just saying. A dispersion reduction for a CQ weapon. Even Gallentes think this is bad.IT ACTUALLY HINDERS the usage of the weapon. I'll never hear someone say: ''Oh darn, this 25% less Heat buildup is really messing with My SCR Gun game....'' But i do hear AR users that agree this is bad even without using the skill yet. They even AVOID SNiper Skills. The CAldari bonus is a nerfed crappy version of what all Commandos currently have. Even 2 ARMOR REPAIR at level 5 would be better XD But then again, i'll just drop it. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1860	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:56:00 - [50] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: While I think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are lacking, I would prefer if they stayed with offensive bonuses instead of defensive bonuses, since that is what assaults are about. I agree with IWS. Regarding the Caldari bonus specifically. I don't think the reload bonus is nearly as appealing as some of the others, I would bundle (kind of like how Minmatar scout is getting hacking speed and knife damage bundled in one bonus) it with an ammo reserves bonus, and a kick reduction bonus to make it more useful. Maybe even an effective range bonus, if the rail weapons get an effective range reduction to compensate. I guess I would also be fine with the reload bonus being bundled with a 3% shield module efficacy or recharge bonus, as long as they also keep a weapon related bonus for hybrid-railgun weapons. As for the Gallente bonus, The dispersion thing might be useful for the AR, shotgun, and ion pistol (a good majority of the Gallente weapons), but I'm not exactly sure how useful it is; it certainly pales in comparison to the Minmatar and Amarr bonus. Perhaps bonus bundling should also be done for the Gallente bonus, or just give it a ROF bonus. Well you can simulate the bonuses by leveling up AR sharpshooter to V. After level 3 the bonus just reduces your effectiveness hipfiring, as for the kick I don't worry about kick on any gun really even when I hipfire the rail because it is easy to manage. As for the dispersion on the ion pistol if I have a 350 charged shot that is going to lock my weapon after I shoot chances are I will not be hipfiring, as for shooting the regular shot I won't be using that either because the gun itself is terrible. And dispersion reduction kills the shotgun and as far as I know it doesn't kick... Armor and Shields are not the same!

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1860	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:58:00 - [51] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon. The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns. But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault. The gallente bonus is the best bonus of them all..... and the Amarr bonus is the worst! I can play this game to! Armor and Shields are not the same!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12976	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:59:00 - [52] - Quote Yet the math nerds would counter argue that your bonuses are too vastly superior to the amarr and minmatar ones and will instantly trash can the army doctrines about wearing anything else. Gallente AS With Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun, and Ion Pistol vs Caldari AS with Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun and Ion Pistol - Rounding corner scenario no ADS 3 meter engagement Caldari AS With Sniper Rifle, Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol vs Gallente AS with Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol cover to cover engagement scenario long range Minmatar AS with Combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver, and Flaylock vs Amarr AS combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver and FLaylock bunker to bunker fight Amarr AS with Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle vs Minmatar AS Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle defense point in preventing a rush. Run the numbers. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4514	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:59:00 - [53] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Please remember that TTK is getting raised. I don't want TTK to get raised and then watch Cal Assaults and Gal Assaults eHP stacking so high it will take 2 clips to take them down. Dump the Extender and Plate bonus and put something else on, Regulators and Repairers are what need buffs anyways. I actually edited the OP regarding this. Hope you agree. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2802	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:02:00 - [54] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Please remember that TTK is getting raised. I don't want TTK to get raised and then watch Cal Assaults and Gal Assaults eHP stacking so high it will take 2 clips to take them down. Dump the Extender and Plate bonus and put something else on, Regulators and Repairers are what need buffs anyways. I actually edited the OP regarding this. Hope you agree. Sounds fantastic. I can live with this. Assaults will need regen powers in 1.8 more than raw eHP. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12976	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:04:00 - [55] - Quote David Spd wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Even with as messed up as it initially sounds, I also found this statement to make a hell of a lot of sense. Since you specifically said "plates and extenders", does this mean you are against the idea of say... Regulators or Rechargers? In my opinion Assaults being "combat oriented" also means that.. theoretically they are exposed to more direct combat than other suits. I'm a Caldari Assault main that prefers mid to long ranged engagements (and was even during the "Slayer Logi" debacle) I find faster and more efficient shield recharge to be surprisingly more effective for "skirmish" type play than simply attempting to "out-tank" your opponent. As a Caldari using a Caldari Rifle, I was a lot better at doing what I was "supposed to" with this type of fitting. Obviously not having bonuses to Extenders as Caldari kind of sucks, but at the same time we shouldn't be in the kind of situations where extender stacking is absolutely necessary to ensure survival. Hopefully 1.8 will shift suit roles and playstyles into a much more..."focused" area than currently. I may come off as a bit arrogant with my next statement, and with the game being as messed up as it is I am somewhat wrong, but at the same time I feel like I need to say it. Assaults (Caldari in particular) need a mixture of damage, defense and mobility to do what they need to do. Just enough survival to not be scouts, and just enough damage to not be Sentinels. We have to sacrifice something, and the current build's "Stack defenses or die without doing anything" is a part of the messed up time to kill. As far as I understand it, the logic behind the Caldari reload is to encourage aggression and "Assault" type gameplay. We don't know 100% what the TTK is going to be in 1.8, nor do we know how all these moving parts are going to affect one another. At first glance the reload bonus seems a bit pointless, but at the same time it may both be necessary to compensate for the Rail Rifle nerf, and also help Caldari soldiers keep pressure on their targets at the distance the weapon is intended to be used. Caldari typically have higher shields than the other races (if EVE is the example that is being followed) so we all ready start ahead of them in terms of immediate defenses. CCP seems to be building suit bonuses under the impression that you're going to be playing as a certain race, wielding that race's weapon. So Caldari will have a powerful mid-ranged weapon, higher base shields and be able to reload their weapon faster than most other races (thanks to the bonus). The Rail rifle tends to reload fairly slowly without heavy skill investment otherwise. That to me sounds like quite a dangerous combination. The only way it would be underwhelming is if you're playing the game in 1.8 the way you play the game now: as a frontline Caldari soldier stacking shield extenders and nothing else. Think outside the box for a little while. Read some of the other threads CCP has made, and try looking up Iron Wolf Saber's thread about the mantras. Also keep in mind that IWS has access to information that WE don't, and also tends to drop some clues about content under NDA that has more than once landed him in hot water. He's trying to tell us, a lot of people are just really not paying attention or listening. CCP has always called Dust 514 a "thinking man's shooter" but there hasn't been a whole lot of anything to think about. I get the feeling 1.8 will change that based on the information we've been getting so far. To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1860	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:07:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Yet the math nerds would counter argue that your bonuses are too vastly superior to the amarr and minmatar ones and will instantly trash can the army doctrines about wearing anything else. Gallente AS With Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun, and Ion Pistol vs Caldari AS with Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun and Ion Pistol - Rounding corner scenario no ADS 3 meter engagement Caldari if the dispersion is reduced enough it is easy for the Caldari to outstrafe Aim Assist while maintaining hipfiring on the slower Gallente. Plasma shotgun the Gallente wins because of higher HP, ion pistol well nobody really there isn't enough damage on the clip for it to kill, if the shot is charged and both it then it really depends on the primary weapon so nobody in this case. Caldari AS With Sniper Rifle, Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol vs Gallente AS with Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol cover to cover engagement scenario long range Sniper rifle it is who sees who first so this can go to anybody. Rail rifle it's is tied because there is enough damage in the clip to kill either suit. Magsec smg probably the Caldari, bolt pistol probably Caldari depends on damage per clip, but if both are strafing then the reload will help bump the scenario to the caldari. Minmatar AS with Combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver, and Flaylock vs Amarr AS combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver and FLaylock bunker to bunker fight minmatar, minmatar, minmatar, ???? Don't know how flay lock will work. Amarr AS with Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle vs Minmatar AS Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle defense point in preventing a rush. Amarr Run the numbers. done Armor and Shields are not the same!
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4514	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:07:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. Ive come to agree with you now. I edited the main post regarding this and what G.Kaiser proposed. please give it a read tell me what you think... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 270	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:09:00 - [58] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Being alive is a pretty big bonus to being able to combat people.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 670	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:19:00 - [59] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading They did give them weapon specific bonuses, just pretty crappy ones. I think 3% to both is a bit much since they were originally at 2% to just shields or armor. I'd go 2% for shield extenders/ regulators and plates/repairers Alternatively (totally stealing from someone in another thread) Caldari: 2-3% reduction in rail hybrid weapon spool up time (this would be tied to a corresponding increase to the RR charge time added to the weapon) (I'm less sure what Gallente weapon users would want because I've never been much of an AR or SG user)...something that increases optimum and effective range for plasma hybrid weapons or RoF? AMarr assault is definitely getting the best of the assault bonuses as the weapon PG/CPU benefits them the most and keeping reduced heat build up on laser weapons is awesome. Minmatar comes in really close second. Gets a little less out of the PG/CPU bonus if using racial weapons but, I've always loved my 100 round SMGs but now 68 round CRs and 11 round MDs! 1.8 should be interesting to say the least Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2339	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:26:00 - [60] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading CCP owes you somebody else's paycheck. Dust514 has a place in this world - buried next to 23,000 copies of E.T. in some remote desert location.

KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4522	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:27:00 - [61] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Please remember that TTK is getting raised. I don't want TTK to get raised and then watch Cal Assaults and Gal Assaults eHP stacking so high it will take 2 clips to take them down. Dump the Extender and Plate bonus and put something else on, Regulators and Repairers are what need buffs anyways. I actually edited the OP regarding this. Hope you agree. Sounds fantastic. I can live with this. Assaults will need regen powers in 1.8 more than raw eHP. EDIT: Gimme a sec, gonna do some math on the Repair bonus. 10% might be too much. I bet you I could get a Gal assault running 35hp/s with this. Nah. 1 Cx Armor rep 8.75 2 Cx armir rep 17.5 3 Cs armor reps 26.25 4 cx armor reps 35 But who will use 4 Cx armor reps for a mere 262 Armor? (im not counting the soon to be NATURAL armor rep of the gallente) People trying to mellow assault bonuses need to remember scouts will be invisible, Heavies will have Resistances and MORE HP and commandos will have 2 Light weapons with faster reload speed and Bonus Cx Dam Mods..... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 305	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:28:00 - [62] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: [Caldari: 2-3% reduction in rail hybrid weapon spool up time (this would be tied to a corresponding increase to the RR charge time added to the weapon) A rhetorical question,but I'd like to know your stance what's 15% of .25/.3 seconds? How is that a bonus? 32db Mad Bomber.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4522	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:29:00 - [63] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading They did give them weapon specific bonuses, just pretty crappy ones. I think 3% to both is a bit much since they were originally at 2% to just shields or armor. I'd go 2% for shield extenders/ regulators and plates/repairers Alternatively (totally stealing from someone in another thread) Caldari: 2-3% reduction in rail hybrid weapon spool up time (this would be tied to a corresponding increase to the RR charge time added to the weapon) (I'm less sure what Gallente weapon users would want because I've never been much of an AR or SG user)...something that increases optimum and effective range for plasma hybrid weapons or RoF? AMarr assault is definitely getting the best of the assault bonuses as the weapon PG/CPU benefits them the most and keeping reduced heat build up on laser weapons is awesome. Minmatar comes in really close second. Gets a little less out of the PG/CPU bonus if using racial weapons but, I've always loved my 100 round SMGs but now 68 round CRs and 11 round MDs! 1.8 should be interesting to say the least The bonus DOES NOT Affect at all the RR, and if you DO tweak it to significantly reduce spool time.... The last thing we need is RR with less spool time. Its already minimal and non important. No disrespect. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 8966	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:30:00 - [64] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: While I think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are lacking, I would prefer if they stayed with offensive bonuses instead of defensive bonuses, since that is what assaults are about. I agree with IWS. Regarding the Caldari bonus specifically. I don't think the reload bonus is nearly as appealing as some of the others, I would bundle (kind of like how Minmatar scout is getting hacking speed and knife damage bundled in one bonus) it with an ammo reserves bonus, and a kick reduction bonus to make it more useful. Maybe even an effective range bonus, if the rail weapons get an effective range reduction to compensate. I guess I would also be fine with the reload bonus being bundled with a 3% shield module efficacy or recharge bonus, as long as they also keep a weapon related bonus for hybrid-railgun weapons. As for the Gallente bonus, The dispersion thing might be useful for the AR, shotgun, and ion pistol (a good majority of the Gallente weapons), but I'm not exactly sure how useful it is; it certainly pales in comparison to the Minmatar and Amarr bonus. Perhaps bonus bundling should also be done for the Gallente bonus, or just give it a ROF bonus. Well you can simulate the bonuses by leveling up AR sharpshooter to V. After level 3 the bonus just reduces your effectiveness hipfiring, as for the kick I don't worry about kick on any gun really even when I hipfire the rail because it is easy to manage. As for the dispersion on the ion pistol if I have a 350 charged shot that is going to lock my weapon after I shoot chances are I will not be hipfiring, as for shooting the regular shot I won't be using that either because the gun itself is terrible. And dispersion reduction kills the shotgun and as far as I know it doesn't kick... I noticed you ignored the main point (that assault should have offense-oriented bonuses), and ignored suggestions like range, and ROF. Why? Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 286	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:31:00 - [65] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are. They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths. Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch. What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus. The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though. Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses. Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types. Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting. Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide. All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames. If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains. Thr caldari bonus is loads of useless, if I wanted less reload I'd go commando or get the reload skill, I never have reload issurs, EVER 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 670	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:33:00 - [66] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading They did give them weapon specific bonuses, just pretty crappy ones. I think 3% to both is a bit much since they were originally at 2% to just shields or armor. I'd go 2% for shield extenders/ regulators and plates/repairers Alternatively (totally stealing from someone in another thread) Caldari: 2-3% reduction in rail hybrid weapon spool up time (this would be tied to a corresponding increase to the RR charge time added to the weapon) (I'm less sure what Gallente weapon users would want because I've never been much of an AR or SG user)...something that increases optimum and effective range for plasma hybrid weapons or RoF? AMarr assault is definitely getting the best of the assault bonuses as the weapon PG/CPU benefits them the most and keeping reduced heat build up on laser weapons is awesome. Minmatar comes in really close second. Gets a little less out of the PG/CPU bonus if using racial weapons but, I've always loved my 100 round SMGs but now 68 round CRs and 11 round MDs! 1.8 should be interesting to say the least The bonus DOES NOT Affect at all the RR, and if you DO tweak it to significantly reduce spool time.... The last thing we need is RR with less spool time. Its already minimal and non important. No disrespect. I'd adjust the gun so that a fully leveled caldari assault would be using it with about the current spool up whare as all others would actually have an increased charge up on the RR. Think of it as a nerf for anyone using the RR that isn't Caldari assault. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4523	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:39:00 - [67] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: I'd adjust the gun so that a fully leveled caldari assault would be using it with about the current spool up whare as all others would actually have an increased charge up on the RR. Think of it as a nerf for anyone using the RR that isn't Caldari assault. Well seems legit.... +1 Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 286	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:41:00 - [68] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Yet the math nerds would counter argue that your bonuses are too vastly superior to the amarr and minmatar ones and will instantly trash can the army doctrines about wearing anything else. Gallente AS With Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun, and Ion Pistol vs Caldari AS with Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun and Ion Pistol - Rounding corner scenario no ADS 3 meter engagement Caldari AS With Sniper Rifle, Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol vs Gallente AS with Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol cover to cover engagement scenario long range Minmatar AS with Combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver, and Flaylock vs Amarr AS combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver and FLaylock bunker to bunker fight Amarr AS with Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle vs Minmatar AS Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle defense point in preventing a rush. Run the numbers. I dont play cal assault to be 60m away from anything, tyvm, I do it for regen and shield tankyness, reload is USELESS, I can spec reload skills, and reloads arent that long 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 1861	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:41:00 - [69] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: While I think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are lacking, I would prefer if they stayed with offensive bonuses instead of defensive bonuses, since that is what assaults are about. I agree with IWS. Regarding the Caldari bonus specifically. I don't think the reload bonus is nearly as appealing as some of the others, I would bundle (kind of like how Minmatar scout is getting hacking speed and knife damage bundled in one bonus) it with an ammo reserves bonus, and a kick reduction bonus to make it more useful. Maybe even an effective range bonus, if the rail weapons get an effective range reduction to compensate. I guess I would also be fine with the reload bonus being bundled with a 3% shield module efficacy or recharge bonus, as long as they also keep a weapon related bonus for hybrid-railgun weapons. As for the Gallente bonus, The dispersion thing might be useful for the AR, shotgun, and ion pistol (a good majority of the Gallente weapons), but I'm not exactly sure how useful it is; it certainly pales in comparison to the Minmatar and Amarr bonus. Perhaps bonus bundling should also be done for the Gallente bonus, or just give it a ROF bonus. Well you can simulate the bonuses by leveling up AR sharpshooter to V. After level 3 the bonus just reduces your effectiveness hipfiring, as for the kick I don't worry about kick on any gun really even when I hipfire the rail because it is easy to manage. As for the dispersion on the ion pistol if I have a 350 charged shot that is going to lock my weapon after I shoot chances are I will not be hipfiring, as for shooting the regular shot I won't be using that either because the gun itself is terrible. And dispersion reduction kills the shotgun and as far as I know it doesn't kick... I noticed you ignored the main point (that assault should have offense-oriented bonuses), and ignored suggestions like range, and ROF. Why? I don't feel it is my place to suggest a bonus for the Caldari. And I agreed with you up to the point of the Gallente wheRe the current bonus does not affect offense. It seems to me that CCP main goal is to NOT make the assault the primary combat suit. So I really don't know what is going on anymore with this game. Armor and Shields are not the same!
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 91	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:46:00 - [70] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: David Spd wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Even with as messed up as it initially sounds, I also found this statement to make a hell of a lot of sense. Since you specifically said "plates and extenders", does this mean you are against the idea of say... Regulators or Rechargers? In my opinion Assaults being "combat oriented" also means that.. theoretically they are exposed to more direct combat than other suits. I'm a Caldari Assault main that prefers mid to long ranged engagements (and was even during the "Slayer Logi" debacle) I find faster and more efficient shield recharge to be surprisingly more effective for "skirmish" type play than simply attempting to "out-tank" your opponent. As a Caldari using a Caldari Rifle, I was a lot better at doing what I was "supposed to" with this type of fitting. Obviously not having bonuses to Extenders as Caldari kind of sucks, but at the same time we shouldn't be in the kind of situations where extender stacking is absolutely necessary to ensure survival. Hopefully 1.8 will shift suit roles and playstyles into a much more..."focused" area than currently. I may come off as a bit arrogant with my next statement, and with the game being as messed up as it is I am somewhat wrong, but at the same time I feel like I need to say it. Assaults (Caldari in particular) need a mixture of damage, defense and mobility to do what they need to do. Just enough survival to not be scouts, and just enough damage to not be Sentinels. We have to sacrifice something, and the current build's "Stack defenses or die without doing anything" is a part of the messed up time to kill. As far as I understand it, the logic behind the Caldari reload is to encourage aggression and "Assault" type gameplay. We don't know 100% what the TTK is going to be in 1.8, nor do we know how all these moving parts are going to affect one another. At first glance the reload bonus seems a bit pointless, but at the same time it may both be necessary to compensate for the Rail Rifle nerf, and also help Caldari soldiers keep pressure on their targets at the distance the weapon is intended to be used. Caldari typically have higher shields than the other races (if EVE is the example that is being followed) so we all ready start ahead of them in terms of immediate defenses. CCP seems to be building suit bonuses under the impression that you're going to be playing as a certain race, wielding that race's weapon. So Caldari will have a powerful mid-ranged weapon, higher base shields and be able to reload their weapon faster than most other races (thanks to the bonus). The Rail rifle tends to reload fairly slowly without heavy skill investment otherwise. That to me sounds like quite a dangerous combination. The only way it would be underwhelming is if you're playing the game in 1.8 the way you play the game now: as a frontline Caldari soldier stacking shield extenders and nothing else. Think outside the box for a little while. Read some of the other threads CCP has made, and try looking up Iron Wolf Saber's thread about the mantras. Also keep in mind that IWS has access to information that WE don't, and also tends to drop some clues about content under NDA that has more than once landed him in hot water. He's trying to tell us, a lot of people are just really not paying attention or listening. CCP has always called Dust 514 a "thinking man's shooter" but there hasn't been a whole lot of anything to think about. I get the feeling 1.8 will change that based on the information we've been getting so far. To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. I really appreciate what you're doing here. It's nice that someone more or less in the know is defending the proposed numbers rather than reinforcing the echo chamber or remaining silent. I think 1.8 has people on edge, and many are just waiting for something to be outraged at. It's sadly become a regular occurrence here on the forums.

NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:49:00 - [71] - Quote Philipp Achtel wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: David Spd wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. Even with as messed up as it initially sounds, I also found this statement to make a hell of a lot of sense. Since you specifically said "plates and extenders", does this mean you are against the idea of say... Regulators or Rechargers? In my opinion Assaults being "combat oriented" also means that.. theoretically they are exposed to more direct combat than other suits. I'm a Caldari Assault main that prefers mid to long ranged engagements (and was even during the "Slayer Logi" debacle) I find faster and more efficient shield recharge to be surprisingly more effective for "skirmish" type play than simply attempting to "out-tank" your opponent. As a Caldari using a Caldari Rifle, I was a lot better at doing what I was "supposed to" with this type of fitting. Obviously not having bonuses to Extenders as Caldari kind of sucks, but at the same time we shouldn't be in the kind of situations where extender stacking is absolutely necessary to ensure survival. Hopefully 1.8 will shift suit roles and playstyles into a much more..."focused" area than currently. I may come off as a bit arrogant with my next statement, and with the game being as messed up as it is I am somewhat wrong, but at the same time I feel like I need to say it. Assaults (Caldari in particular) need a mixture of damage, defense and mobility to do what they need to do. Just enough survival to not be scouts, and just enough damage to not be Sentinels. We have to sacrifice something, and the current build's "Stack defenses or die without doing anything" is a part of the messed up time to kill. As far as I understand it, the logic behind the Caldari reload is to encourage aggression and "Assault" type gameplay. We don't know 100% what the TTK is going to be in 1.8, nor do we know how all these moving parts are going to affect one another. At first glance the reload bonus seems a bit pointless, but at the same time it may both be necessary to compensate for the Rail Rifle nerf, and also help Caldari soldiers keep pressure on their targets at the distance the weapon is intended to be used. Caldari typically have higher shields than the other races (if EVE is the example that is being followed) so we all ready start ahead of them in terms of immediate defenses. CCP seems to be building suit bonuses under the impression that you're going to be playing as a certain race, wielding that race's weapon. So Caldari will have a powerful mid-ranged weapon, higher base shields and be able to reload their weapon faster than most other races (thanks to the bonus). The Rail rifle tends to reload fairly slowly without heavy skill investment otherwise. That to me sounds like quite a dangerous combination. The only way it would be underwhelming is if you're playing the game in 1.8 the way you play the game now: as a frontline Caldari soldier stacking shield extenders and nothing else. Think outside the box for a little while. Read some of the other threads CCP has made, and try looking up Iron Wolf Saber's thread about the mantras. Also keep in mind that IWS has access to information that WE don't, and also tends to drop some clues about content under NDA that has more than once landed him in hot water. He's trying to tell us, a lot of people are just really not paying attention or listening. CCP has always called Dust 514 a "thinking man's shooter" but there hasn't been a whole lot of anything to think about. I get the feeling 1.8 will change that based on the information we've been getting so far. To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. I really appreciate what you're doing here. It's nice that someone more or less in the know is defending the proposed numbers rather than reinforcing the echo chamber or remaining silent. I think 1.8 has people on edge, and many are just waiting for something to be outraged at. It's sadly become a regular occurrence here on the forums. But if I wanted faster reload, I'd go commando or get reload skill 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle 270	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:50:00 - [72] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading CCP owes you somebody else's paycheck. Pretty sure he's just saying some of the same things I've being saying - one of the best ways to make assaults good at their job is to make them able to keep pressure up - either with more shots on target or with more ability to recover hit points independent of other players without being supremely tanky. The only restriction that might be necessary is to outright disallow 'assault suits' the ability to equip nanite injectors.
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2074	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:52:00 - [73] - Quote Armor repairs would still be UP So about those vehicle locks...
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:54:00 - [74] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Armor repairs would still be UP Buff to 6 or 7 hp's would fix it 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2074	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:55:00 - [75] - Quote NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Armor repairs would still be UP Buff to 6 or 7 hp's would fix it I think that armor repairs at complex level should repair at 7-8 w/o skills So about those vehicle locks...
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 02:57:00 - [76] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Armor repairs would still be UP Buff to 6 or 7 hp's would fix it I think that armor repairs at complex level should repair at 7-8 w/o skills Thats what I meant Currently armor rep bonuses are useless because the repair sucks 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 91	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:00:00 - [77] - Quote NK Scout wrote: But if I wanted faster reload, I'd go commando or get reload skill I'm sure you realize that there is more to assault than this one bonus. There's the pg CPU reduction, there's the stats of the suit, there's the slot layout. Why do you zero in on this one bonus as if it's the be all and end all of caldari assaults? And why are you so fixed on caldari assault that you insist its bonus be just right for you? Maybe the play style they want to promote isn't the same as the way you want to play, and you should consider finding a different suit. A respec is around the corner, don't you doubt it. All your troubles will be over soon.
Philipp Achtel Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 91	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:03:00 - [78] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Pretty sure he's just saying some of the same things I've being saying - one of the best ways to make assaults good at their job is to make them able to keep pressure up - either with more shots on target or with more ability to recover hit points independent of other players without being supremely tanky. The only restriction that might be necessary is to outright disallow 'assault suits' the ability to equip nanite injectors. If you want to build your assault that way, no one is stopping you. But you're trying to craft the assault bonus around the way you want to play. Maybe a commando is more in line with what you are looking for?
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:03:00 - [79] - Quote Philipp Achtel wrote: NK Scout wrote: But if I wanted faster reload, I'd go commando or get reload skill I'm sure you realize that there is more to assault than this one bonus. There's the pg CPU reduction, there's the stats of the suit, there's the slot layout. Why do you zero in on this one bonus as if it's the be all and end all of caldari assaults? And why are you so fixed on caldari assault that you insist its bonus be just right for you? Maybe the play style they want to promote isn't the same as the way you want to play, and you should consider finding a different suit. A respec is around the corner, don't you doubt it. All your troubles will be over soon. But the bonus is useless, and lol no one thats caldari reload bonus 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4525	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:04:00 - [80] - Quote NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Armor repairs would still be UP Buff to 6 or 7 hp's would fix it I think that armor repairs at complex level should repair at 7-8 w/o skills Thats what I meant Currently armor rep bonuses are useless because the repair sucks Shields : Little HP , Big Regen Armor: Big HP, Little repair Armor reps are working as intended. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029

Shiruba Ryou 205	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:06:00 - [81] - Quote IWS a few statement of yours confuse me. Like you statement on Shotguns for Gal Assaults. Unless you know something we don't We still depend on slow armor plates. We also require a lot of mods to make us fast or dampened enough to effectively use a shotgun unless we got a skill to increase it's range a bit on the assault suit. Now I would love the ability to make use of the shotgun on my assault suit. The AR is starting to bore me after a year and as you said. The suit is no home for the PLC. If you know something like some new fitting options or new shotgun changes that will make it usable by gal assault like me then could you please share? "Not to worry. The cards say you loved it." `- Ryoutoshi`
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:06:00 - [82] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: NK Scout wrote: KenKaniff69 wrote: Armor repairs would still be UP Buff to 6 or 7 hp's would fix it I think that armor repairs at complex level should repair at 7-8 w/o skills Thats what I meant Currently armor rep bonuses are useless because the repair sucks Shields : Little HP , Big Regen Armor: Big HP, Little repair Armor reps are working as intended. armor needs a slight rep boost, 6 or 7 hp/s base complex, just a little, I want to play shields but cant because it isnt viable...... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4527	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:21:00 - [83] - Quote NK Scout wrote: armor needs a slight rep boost, 6 or 7 hp/s base complex, just a little, I want to play shields but cant because it isnt viable...... The problem is not that Armor reps are not at all viable. The problem is that Armor tankers want more ARMOR HP while having similar regen to the SHIELDS. They already got rid of strong speed penalties. As it is, ALL GALLENTES will have Natural Armor rep of at least 1. Want more armor regen my friend on your gallente assault? IN 1.7 (NOW)= 2 CX Armor reps & 2 ENHANCED ARMOR PLATES will give you: 504 + 12.5 Rep Note that Shield regen on most assaults is 20. Logis from 15-17-20 and HEavies is 20. So you are ONLY -7.5 (or less) Rep per sec, while gaining 48.5 HP (121 ENH ARMOR PLATE / COMPLEX SHIELD EXT 72 = NOT EVEN USING COMPLEX ARMOR PLATES vs COMPLEX SHIELD EXT....) Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 287	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:27:00 - [84] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: NK Scout wrote: armor needs a slight rep boost, 6 or 7 hp/s base complex, just a little, I want to play shields but cant because it isnt viable...... The problem is not that Armor reps are not at all viable. The problem is that Armor tankers want more ARMOR HP while having similar regen to the SHIELDS. They already got rid of strong speed penalties. As it is, ALL GALLENTES will have Natural Armor rep of at least 1. Want more armor regen my friend on your gallente assault? IN 1.7 (NOW)= 2 CX Armor reps & 2 ENHANCED ARMOR PLATES will give you: 504 + 12.5 Rep Note that Shield regen on most assaults is 20. Logis from 15-17-20 and HEavies is 20. So you are ONLY -7.5 (or less) Rep per sec, while gaining 48.5 HP (121 ENH ARMOR PLATE / COMPLEX SHIELD EXT 72 = NOT EVEN USING COMPLEX ARMOR PLATES vs COMPLEX SHIELD EXT....) They need 6 base reps complex, so they dont complain, and so armor reps are decent 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1898	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:28:00 - [85] - Quote I think making the gallente bonus to plates AND reps is a bit too much. Make it to rep modules only since that's what the suits are being redesigned to do anyway, with the Amarr now being the max armor tankers. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 462	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:41:00 - [86] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Killar-12 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Delanus Turgias wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Level 9 forum warrior approved. Maybe not a 5% bonus for extenders and plates and such (remember the CalLogi?), but I think a 3% bonus would be fine. I think the TANKING bonuses on Gallente and Caldari i proposed are in line with Amarr LAser DPS bonus and Minmatar explosive weapon buffs. or everyone get a DPS bounus of some sort I see assaults as being like attack frigs not like combat frigs. The Gal & Cal bonuses helping TANKING give you VERSATILITY. = A Cal Assault will be able to (for example) Use 2 CX Shield Extenders and 2 Cx Damage mods without loosing too much HP. The GAll assault will be able to use 2 ENh Armor paltes , 1 Cx Armor rep and a complex profile dampener,without loosing too much Hp.. ETC... So basically, it gives you the OPTION to either massively tank or use your assault for a different purpose without loosing too much EHP which Assault need to fulfill their purpose AND will need in order to deal with Commandos and Sentinels past 1.8. Plus, what do you prefer, these bonuses? Or the RELOAD / Dispersion bonuses CCP is currently proposing...? Also stops Caldari from duel tanking all the damn time. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 462	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:44:00 - [87] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. ... What? How does that work? You realise that plates and extenders have a huge impact on straight combat, right? Yes but there is room for tanking classes and attack classes. Why should 2 get tanks and the other get well not even soemthing worthy of a gank? As the minmatar best put it. Why tank? its dead. The Minmatar and Amarr bonuses are entirely sufficient gank bonuses. The clip size bonus will be devastating on the CR especially should the damage output be nerfed, and the overheat bonus does frightening things to the SCR. So why not? Because its unfair and confusing that HALF a class isn't part of the class. What is purposed here is equitable to half of the sentinels getting resistances and the other half weapon bonuses. alright that is a fair point... Just as long as CCP aren't settling on the Gallente and Caldari bonuses "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4532	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:50:00 - [88] - Quote NK Scout wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NK Scout wrote: armor needs a slight rep boost, 6 or 7 hp/s base complex, just a little, I want to play shields but cant because it isnt viable...... The problem is not that Armor reps are not at all viable. The problem is that Armor tankers want more ARMOR HP while having similar regen to the SHIELDS. They already got rid of strong speed penalties. As it is, ALL GALLENTES will have Natural Armor rep of at least 1. Want more armor regen my friend on your gallente assault? IN 1.7 (NOW)= 2 CX Armor reps & 2 ENHANCED ARMOR PLATES will give you: 504 + 12.5 Rep Note that Shield regen on most assaults is 20. Logis from 15-17-20 and HEavies is 20. So you are ONLY -7.5 (or less) Rep per sec, while gaining 48.5 HP (121 ENH ARMOR PLATE / COMPLEX SHIELD EXT 72 = NOT EVEN USING COMPLEX ARMOR PLATES vs COMPLEX SHIELD EXT....) They need 6 base reps complex, so they dont complain, and so armor reps are decent Armor tankers complaining is not an issue here. I wouldn't mind giving them up to 8 ( base) Armor rep at complex level (2-4-8), but this alone would BREAK the balance , unless something is done to lever this. AKA: Bringing OLD Speed penalties back. Im pretty sure A.Tankers prefer things how they are now.... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
David Spd Caldari State 125	Posted - 2014.02.09 03:52:00 - [89] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. Thank you. I think I might not have explained that well enough, but that's essentially what I meant. Assaults get in there, agitate the opposition, but don't really "tank" anything. At least, that's the idea. 1.7 isn't really played that way. I stopped stacking extenders and instead put on a couple regulators and rechargers and suddenly people had a LOT more problems engaging me without running into the brick wall that was my team (or a smart Sentinel). I still get enough kills to satisfy myself, but I'm not "mvp" according to scoreboard. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 672	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:00:00 - [90] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: NK Scout wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: NK Scout wrote: armor needs a slight rep boost, 6 or 7 hp/s base complex, just a little, I want to play shields but cant because it isnt viable...... The problem is not that Armor reps are not at all viable. The problem is that Armor tankers want more ARMOR HP while having similar regen to the SHIELDS. They already got rid of strong speed penalties. As it is, ALL GALLENTES will have Natural Armor rep of at least 1. Want more armor regen my friend on your gallente assault? IN 1.7 (NOW)= 2 CX Armor reps & 2 ENHANCED ARMOR PLATES will give you: 504 + 12.5 Rep Note that Shield regen on most assaults is 20. Logis from 15-17-20 and HEavies is 20. So you are ONLY -7.5 (or less) Rep per sec, while gaining 48.5 HP (121 ENH ARMOR PLATE / COMPLEX SHIELD EXT 72 = NOT EVEN USING COMPLEX ARMOR PLATES vs COMPLEX SHIELD EXT....) They need 6 base reps complex, so they dont complain, and so armor reps are decent Armor tankers complaining is not an issue here. I wouldn't mind giving them up to 8 ( base) Armor rep at complex level (2-4-8), but this alone would BREAK the balance , unless something is done to lever this. AKA: Bringing OLD Speed penalties back. Im pretty sure A.Tankers prefer things how they are now.... Or you buff shield extenders to like 30 50 75 with your armor rep bonus and then I think you've made things fairly vanilla between shields and armor ...since the thread has spun off into that can of worms Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4534	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:13:00 - [91] - Quote yeah yeah,back to the thread then. The updated bonuses are in. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 261	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:16:00 - [92] - Quote Where's the link for the 1.8 Assault bonuses? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4535	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:22:00 - [93] - Quote Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Where's the link for the 1.8 Assault bonuses? Uhm...I dont have it right now... Anybody? Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
David Spd Caldari State 126	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:30:00 - [94] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Thr caldari bonus is loads of useless, if I wanted less reload I'd go commando or get the reload skill, I never have reload issurs, EVER Choosing Commando over Assault is making a very large decision that isn't just about reload, and if you want to play Commando in an "assault" role then you're playing incredibly inefficiently. Movement speed and equipment slot differences are obvious reasons. Reload skill PLUS reload bonus makes for (if other people's math is to believed) the second fastest reloaded light weapon in the game. Caldari Assault/Logistics suits aren't (nor were they ever) designed to be frontline tanks. Problems with global damage, lack of racial parity and Shield Extenders allowed Caldari soldiers to tank in a way CCP never intended. Notice how shield stacking became much less effective after Scrambler rifle came out, then was further nerfed with negative stats connected to extenders? Even the Caldari's weapon is designed and intended for mid-range engagements (because of it's slower rate of fire, but higher damage and accuracy with an impressive zoom). Longer ranges = more damage dropoff which means more ammunition needed to get the same results. If you're playing Caldari the way they're supposed to be played then you're going to be reloading more often than most people. That's just the way of it. Caldari are intended (and designed) to be engaging enemies at longer ranges than the other races. Because of these indended ranges, Caldari have better shielding but less armor (shields replenish faster than armor so "hit and move" gamplay is favored), and have a weapon better suited to longer ranges (accurate, high damage with lower RoF to make controlling recoil more skillful and a respectable zoom with very good clarity and dot sight). With an incredible reload that means you will be better at engaging enemies at ranges that will put them at a significant disadvantage and will be able to keep them at that range because you will have incredibly low downtime between magazines If a Caldari Assault with cover & a Rail Rifle manages to catch you out in the open at a respectable distance you might as well take a bite of your grenade because it is highly unlikely you will get to your destination without re-routing to the Caldari and/or dying in the process. He or she will likely not only be able to do more damage than you more accurately, but will also be able to recharge any damage you do to them faster (due to you doing reduced damage thanks to range) to top off their superior shields, and reload before you get anywhere near their position to finish you off. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2804	Posted - 2014.02.09 04:45:00 - [95] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Yet the math nerds would counter argue that your bonuses are too vastly superior to the amarr and minmatar ones and will instantly trash can the army doctrines about wearing anything else. Gallente AS With Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun, and Ion Pistol vs Caldari AS with Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun and Ion Pistol - Rounding corner scenario no ADS 3 meter engagement Caldari AS With Sniper Rifle, Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol vs Gallente AS with Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol cover to cover engagement scenario long range Minmatar AS with Combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver, and Flaylock vs Amarr AS combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver and FLaylock bunker to bunker fight Amarr AS with Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle vs Minmatar AS Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle defense point in preventing a rush. Run the numbers. I dont play cal assault to be 60m away from anything, tyvm, I do it for regen and shield tankyness, reload is USELESS, I can spec reload skills, and reloads arent that long Then you should run Minmatar. Next build minmatar will be exactly what you want. 30hp/s shield regen and a decent shield tank. Combine with speed, and you have an excellent mid range fighter. Caldari are supposed to be long range shield tanks. Difficult to take down at range due to their large shields, and doubled by the fact that you can't deal much damage at that range. Counter is the Amarr. They can hit you hard from 70m, and thier bonus to shield damage will offset the range penalty. Combine with a hardy tank, and they can very easily eliminate Cal Assaults at range. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1399	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:02:00 - [96] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Kigurosaka Laaksonen wrote: Where's the link for the 1.8 Assault bonuses? Uhm...I dont have it right now... Anybody? Here it's on the second page. Again this is what they had in mind, very much subject to change. The Assault bonuses could have been a lot worse. CCP Saberwing wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Saberwing, any news on when we will see the assault and logi bonuses and stats like we saw for the other dropsuit specializations? We need to be able to give feedback on those like we got to do for everything else; its been so long since the other suits' info got released, like close to a month, why the gap? OKAY OKAY! Since you asked so nicely...this is what we're thinking. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: +5% to reload speed of hybrid railgun light/sidearm weapons per level. - Gallente Assault: 5% reduction to hybrid - blaster light/sidearm hip-fire dispersion and kick per level. - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. Logistics [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of equipment] - Caldari Logistics: +10% to nanohive max. nanites and +5% to supply rate and repair amount per level. - Gallente Logistics: +10% to active scanner visibility duration and +5% to active scanner precision per level. - Minmatar Logistics: +10% to repair tool range and 5% to repair amount per level. - Amarr Logistics: 10% reduction to drop uplink spawn time and +2 to max. spawn count per level. Will copy + paste this in to the Feedback thread too. Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2811	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:08:00 - [97] - Quote David Spd wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast. Thank you. I think I might not have explained that well enough, but that's essentially what I meant. Assaults get in there, agitate the opposition, but don't really "tank" anything. At least, that's the idea. 1.7 isn't really played that way. I stopped stacking extenders and instead put on a couple regulators and rechargers and suddenly people had a LOT more problems engaging me without running into the brick wall that was my team (or a smart Sentinel). If you engage a stronger opponent and take damage, just break line of sight to recharge shield or repair armor just enough to re-engage finish him off. Being an assault is about strategically choosing your opponents and causing the most team-wide damage as possible. Assaults are the ripples that turn into waves on the battlefield. I like to think of it this way. You have heavies, logi's, commando's, scouts and assaults. Their roles are roughly as follows (I am making comparisons to MMORPG class formats for easy clarity): Main Roles: Heavy: Tank. Made to draw attention to themselves and draw enemy fire. DPS isn't the main focus of the class, but rather the ability to absorb it. They can still dish out massive damage point blank. This is to discourage getting close to the heavy, and as a last line of defense. Logi: Heal/Buff Support. Combat isn't the focus of the suit. This suit is made to FACILITATE combat. They provide Ammo, Rep, Spawns, Scans etc and help to keep the squad operating at maximum efficiency. A good logi will make sure that they keep the squad in tip-top shape, so that they never enter a battle at less then their best (At full ammo, health etc). Assault: Main DPS. Pain is the name of the gain. Since this class is the main one in combat, they should excel at dealing damage and recovering from it. They aren't the tankiest troopers, but they have enough health to survive multiple back to back engagements, so long as they take advantage of cover and fight smart. They are the most versatile of the suits, able to field a large spread of fits for multiple occasions. Specialist Roles Scout: With two equipment slots and an emphasis on speed/stealth, the scout is an excellent suit for misdirection and support. They avoid scanners, and can make for some excellent flankers or assassins, but they can also utilize their two equipment slots for uplink running or to deliver rapid support to beleaguered squads (since they can't be detected, you can probably run in and drop ammo or reps and get out without being noticed). They have the lowest eHP though, and are NOT meant to engage the enemy directly. Commando: Weapon Versatility. They are tankier than an Assault, but have less health than a heavy. They are made to bring weapon versatility to the squad, as they can run two Light weapons. They get a damage bonus to help them apply damage, but their lack of regen makes them more difficult to use as a Main DPS. A good logi will make sure you operate at full proficiency, so it would make good sense to run a single commando in a squad over another assault so long as you have a logi. They can bring Mass Drivers, Swarm Launchers, and other niche weapons to the battlefield without reducing the effectiveness of the squad. Ideal Squad (IMO) 1 Heavy: eHP tanked and made to be tough to take down. 1 Logi: Running a spread of equipment with focus on infantry support. 2 Assaults: Fit for a slayer role. Emphasis on recovery, as the logi will have his hands full with the Heavy and Commando. 1 Commando: Fit weapons to map/squad. Area Denial needed? MD it is. Vehicles a problem? Swarms. Focus on damage and tank. Focus on Regen if you don't have a logi. 1 Scout: Fit for stealth/eWAR. Your job is to run ahead of the squad, elminate HVT's and inform them of incoming troops. You won't have support, so make sure you can take care of yourself. Variations include: 1 Heavy 1 Logi 3 Assaults 1 Commando 1 Heavy 1 Logi 2 Assaults 2 Commandos This is just my take on how the classes will seem to work in 1.8. I really like this though, as it really puts a lot of diversity into the game. Just my 0.02 ISK. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4542	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:39:00 - [98] - Quote Nice analysis Ghost. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2820	Posted - 2014.02.09 05:42:00 - [99] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Nice analysis Ghost. Thanks I write forums posts in between anime episodes at night. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 12998	Posted - 2014.02.09 11:52:00 - [100] - Quote Caldari Assault V 542.6 Damage Advantage Against Assault RR armed Gallente Assault caught on a reload Caldari Assault V 487.5 Damage Advantage Against Standard RR armed Against Gallente Assault caught on a reload and the two are far apart enough swapping to pistols is rather useless though I will say our two volunteers are terrible shots. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1623	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:02:00 - [101] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. I like these bonuses and actually think they would be well balanced. +1 Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Lucifalic Nos Nothi 292	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:11:00 - [102] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. I like these bonuses and actually think they would be well balanced. +1 agree When did you guys get so OLD!!
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 187	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:34:00 - [103] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading As a calassault I like this bonus. What's not to love about the scrambler rifle, the thing is a precision weapon and at the same time a shotgun.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13002	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:45:00 - [104] - Quote Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1623	Posted - 2014.02.09 12:51:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. Yes, but Amarr and Minmatar bonuses require specific weapons to work. I don't see that as a problem. Edit: Furthermore, I seriously doubt you'll see many (if any) Caldari and Gallente Assaults not using those modules anyway. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13007	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:03:00 - [106] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. Yes, but Amarr and Minmatar bonuses require specific weapons to work. I don't see that as a problem. Edit: Furthermore, I seriously doubt you'll see many (if any) Caldari and Gallente Assaults not using those modules anyway. Gal and Cal have a chance to align up to 4 modules in this manner thus doubling the bonuses's power even further when stacked onto of the suit's natural affinity (as they both are already similar to the bonus come 1.8) Amarr and min are stuck with 2 max benefiting (and unless the scrambler pistol is changing amarr are stuck with 1) and can only take advantage of it ONE at a time. One could argue the cal and gal bonuses are 4x more powerful than amarr and minmatar. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
PEW JACKSON Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 213	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:04:00 - [107] - Quote @ OP, idea is effectively OP lol. Bonuses are perfect imo. Caldari & Gallente now have a sort of rep tanking thing going on. Minnie & Amarr fit wonderfully. +1 Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 2339	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:12:00 - [108] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Pretty sure he's just saying some of the same things I've being saying - one of the best ways to make assaults good at their job is to make them able to keep pressure up - either with more shots on target or with more ability to recover hit points independent of other players without being supremely tanky. The only restriction that might be necessary is to outright disallow 'assault suits' the ability to equip nanite injectors. It was just commentary, you crybaby. At this point we've all contributed better ideas than what the dipshits that get paid to do this have come up with. But, here you can have a paycheck that I'm not authorized to issue anyways, if it'll help your needy little ego, you ******* child. Dust514 has a place in this world - buried next to 23,000 copies of E.T. in some remote desert location.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1623	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:21:00 - [109] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: One could argue the cal and gal bonuses are 4x more powerful than amarr and minmatar. Wrong. Gallente Assault with 4 Complex Reps would still only have 50% more reps than any other suit with 4 Complex Reps. Caldari doesn't even have 4 low slots. Not to mention a fully Complex Reps loaded Gallente would have terrible EHP. These proposed bonuses would be incredibly balanced in my honest opinion, and would each enhance the Assault suits in their own way. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
demonkiller 12 G.L.O.R.Y 386	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:29:00 - [110] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading these bonuses are only good for PROTO, what about the other 99% of players? unless proto suits only cost 10k now and not a whole matches earnings....

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1624	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:37:00 - [111] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: these bonuses are only good for PROTO, what about the other 99% of players? unless proto suits only cost 10k now and not a whole matches earnings.... Not really correct since you can skill to level 5 and get the full bonus on your standard suits. If you're talking about the bonuses being terrible if you only have the skills at level 1, then they aren't worth much no, but are the Sentinel bonuses that? Or any of the other classes bonuses? Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 5	Posted - 2014.02.09 13:56:00 - [112] - Quote what about having 1 bonus for weapons and 1 for modules. a lot of the suits have 2 bonuses that do slightly different things. e.g. amarr: current heat bonus plus something to armor plates (extra armor, maybe reduced pg use for them) caldari: ads aim bonus(making sure it affects snipers as well), shield extender buff of some form gallente: hipfire aim bonus or reload(more useful at close range i think), and rep bonus minmatar: clip size bonus to projectiles and explosives, shield recharger/speed mod bonus?
Atheor Sindromer Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 52	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:09:00 - [113] - Quote Ekrano Fergus wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table. How good will you be in combat if you're dead. How good will you be in supporting your team with a Logi when you're dead? See? Works both ways, Logi's don't get Armor/Shield bonuses either. They get EQUIPMENT bonuses. You're thinking in flawed logic. Love the sinner, hate the Sindromer.
Neo Rinzler Commando Perkone Caldari State 13	Posted - 2014.02.09 14:21:00 - [114] - Quote David Spd wrote: NK Scout wrote: Thr caldari bonus is loads of useless, if I wanted less reload I'd go commando or get the reload skill, I never have reload issurs, EVER Choosing Commando over Assault is making a very large decision that isn't just about reload, and if you want to play Commando in an "assault" role then you're playing incredibly inefficiently. Movement speed and equipment slot differences are obvious reasons. And not only this, but TTK in 1.7 is incredibly low. It is being raised (and Rail Rifle is getting tweaked or nerfed) and all weapons/suits seem to be getting adjusted for 1.8. 1.7 logic will not work with 1.8. Reload skill PLUS reload bonus makes for (if other people's math is to believed) the second fastest reloaded light weapon in the game. Caldari Assault/Logistics suits aren't (nor were they ever) designed to be frontline tanks. Problems with global damage, lack of racial parity and Shield Extenders allowed Caldari soldiers to tank in a way CCP never intended. Notice how shield stacking became much less effective after Scrambler rifle came out, then was further nerfed with negative stats connected to extenders? Even the Caldari's weapon is designed and intended for mid-range engagements (because of it's slower rate of fire, but higher damage and accuracy with an impressive zoom). Longer ranges = more damage dropoff which means more ammunition needed to get the same results. If you're playing Caldari the way they're supposed to be played then you're going to be reloading more often than most people. That's just the way of it. Caldari are intended (and designed) to be engaging enemies at longer ranges than the other races. Because of these indended ranges, Caldari have better shielding but less armor (shields replenish faster than armor so "hit and move" gamplay is favored), and have a weapon better suited to longer ranges (accurate, high damage with lower RoF to make controlling recoil more skillful and a respectable zoom with very good clarity and dot sight). With an incredible reload that means you will be better at engaging enemies at ranges that will put them at a significant disadvantage and will be able to keep them at that range because you will have incredibly low downtime between magazines If a Caldari Assault with cover & a Rail Rifle manages to catch you out in the open at a respectable distance you might as well take a bite of your grenade because it is highly unlikely you will get to your destination without re-routing to the Caldari and/or dying in the process. He or she will likely not only be able to do more damage than you more accurately, but will also be able to recharge any damage you do to them faster (due to you doing reduced damage thanks to range) to top off their superior shields, and reload before you get anywhere near their position to finish you off. And this is only a 1v1 scenario. A smart Caldari doesn't run & gun, but instead stays near their team to pick off enemies trying to flank or retreat. Good luck fighting back in those situations. Caldari Weapons already have a reload skill, 1/2 a second faster reload than another suit using the same weapon is NOT a good enough reason to use the Caldari Assault 3.2 to 2.04 with max reload and max cal assault or 2.62 with just max reload skill Seriously 2.04 v 2.62 ..... 2 Million extra SP for 0.58 faster reload ?? This is why it is such a terrible bonus in fact I wouldn't even waste SP skilling the damn thing to Proto I'd just use the basic Caldari Assault suit .. that is how pointless a reload skill bonus is
Neo Rinzler Commando Perkone Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:12:00 - [115] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading Havign the Gallente and Caldari bonuses dependent on fitting specific modules isn;t balanced Give both suits Passive bonuses Caldari Assault :- +5% Passive Shield Regulation and Shield recharge rate per level Gallente Assault:- +2 Passive Armor Repair Rate per level The Gallente 1 I'm unsure about because ... I simply don't know if 10 passive armor repair rate is too much or too little maybe +1 armor repair rate per level like the old logi bonus would be satisfactory But I certainly think giving the 2 suits better passive hp regen is better than a bonus dependant on modules
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1908	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:27:00 - [116] - Quote I can tell you one thing, 10hp/sec armor regen is DEFINITELY not too little. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1144	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:36:00 - [117] - Quote Yes let's make a Tank bonus on a DPS class... It's funny to see nothing but people who run logi suit's have massive opinions on assault suits that have been obsolete since 1.2... Instead of having glass cannon DPS suits running around to balance the game we are gonna have a brick tanked very specialized class and in almost every circumstance except highly specialized ones be inferior. These changes will kill the entire competitive aspect of the Assault class.
Ekrano Fergus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 29	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:40:00 - [118] - Quote If the caldari bonus gets changed to effect shields, it should alter shield amount and not shield regen. /)_/) ( . .) C(") (")
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2908	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:42:00 - [119] - Quote I don't think you realize how powerful regulators are. With that bonus, the CalAss would be able to get LITERALLY zero shield recharge delay. 41.25 for one complex, 35.8875 for the second, 23.5125, for the third. Add those together, get -100.65% delay. Yeah, that's totally not OP or anything. Shield Recommendations
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1909	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:47:00 - [120] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Yes let's make a Tank bonus on a DPS class... It's funny to see nothing but people who run logi suit's have massive opinions on assault suits that have been obsolete since 1.2... Instead of having glass cannon DPS suits running around to balance the game we are gonna have a brick tanked very specialized class and in almost every circumstance except highly specialized ones be inferior. These changes will kill the entire competitive aspect of the Assault class. We went from a DPS bonus ON A DPS CLASS that well over 60% of the community AGREED on to the same bonuses that where offered to us on the assault's in the Chromosome Dev blogs on Uprising launch... Either you people like being sold on the exact same that has never made the class competitive. Or you think brick tanking a DPS class is a good thing and really have been playing this messed up version of DUST for way to long. Bye Bye Assault suits for anything but Pubs... Cuz you certainly won;t be competitive in the new DUST. All Hail Scout and Heavy 514 in 1.8 I agree that the tank bonus doesn't fit, but I'm sorry, but assault players have never been shy (like ever) about chiming in on what to do with logi suits so you're just going to have to deal with it. Nobody's opinion (in a general sense) is more important than anyone elses, not even yours. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Forum Warrior lv.1 Amarr victor!

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1627	Posted - 2014.02.09 16:50:00 - [121] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I don't think you realize how powerful regulators are. With that bonus, the CalAss would be able to get LITERALLY zero shield recharge delay. 41.25 for one complex, 35.8875 for the second, 23.5125, for the third. Add those together, get -100.65% delay. Yeah, that's totally not OP or anything. You're doing the math wrong. Current delay on Caldari Assault is 5/8, so with three Complex Regulators it would be: 5 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 1.44 delay. 8 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 2.3 depleted delay. That's still very powerful, but that is also using tree Complex Regulators. Edit: For comparison I also did the numbers without the 50% suit bonus: 5 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 2.3 delay (less than 1 second more than with the bonus). 8 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 3.7 depleted delay (less than 1-+ second more than with the bonus). You still think the bonus is insanely OP? Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 452	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:17:00 - [122] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. Yes, but Amarr and Minmatar bonuses require specific weapons to work. I don't see that as a problem. Edit: Furthermore, I seriously doubt you'll see many (if any) Caldari and Gallente Assaults not using those modules anyway. Gal and Cal have a chance to align up to 4 modules in this manner thus doubling the bonuses's power even further when stacked onto of the suit's natural affinity (as they both are already similar to the bonus come 1.8) Amarr and min are stuck with 2 max benefiting (and unless the scrambler pistol is changing amarr are stuck with 1) and can only take advantage of it ONE at a time. One could argue the cal and gal bonuses are 4x more powerful than amarr and minmatar. How the heck did you become a CPM?! The reload bonus for my cal assault suit is so worthless that it would make me want my SP back, something I never thought I would say. How about ALL the assault suits get this crap bonus and then watch the tears. The bonuses recommended here are way better then their new ones. I actually thought the initial ones CCP came out with were much more in making assaults actual assaults. Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2183	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:19:00 - [123] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. Yes, but Amarr and Minmatar bonuses require specific weapons to work. I don't see that as a problem. Edit: Furthermore, I seriously doubt you'll see many (if any) Caldari and Gallente Assaults not using those modules anyway. Gal and Cal have a chance to align up to 4 modules in this manner thus doubling the bonuses's power even further when stacked onto of the suit's natural affinity (as they both are already similar to the bonus come 1.8) Amarr and min are stuck with 2 max benefiting (and unless the scrambler pistol is changing amarr are stuck with 1) and can only take advantage of it ONE at a time. One could argue the cal and gal bonuses are 4x more powerful than amarr and minmatar. How the heck did you become a CPM?! The reload bonus for my cal assault suit is so worthless that it would make me want my SP back, something I never thought I would say. How about ALL the assault suits get this crap bonus and then watch the tears. The bonuses recommended here are way better then their new ones. I actually thought the initial ones CCP came out with were much more in making assaults actual assaults. Don't attack IWS, he really does care about balance. Disagree all you want, but leave personal attack out of it please. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1144	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:23:00 - [124] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Bethhy wrote: Yes let's make a Tank bonus on a DPS class... It's funny to see nothing but people who run logi suit's have massive opinions on assault suits that have been obsolete since 1.2... Instead of having glass cannon DPS suits running around to balance the game we are gonna have a brick tanked very specialized class and in almost every circumstance except highly specialized ones be inferior. These changes will kill the entire competitive aspect of the Assault class. We went from a DPS bonus ON A DPS CLASS that well over 60% of the community AGREED on to the same bonuses that where offered to us on the assault's in the Chromosome Dev blogs on Uprising launch... Either you people like being sold on the exact same that has never made the class competitive. Or you think brick tanking a DPS class is a good thing and really have been playing this messed up version of DUST for way to long. Bye Bye Assault suits for anything but Pubs... Cuz you certainly won;t be competitive in the new DUST. All Hail Scout and Heavy 514 in 1.8 I agree that the tank bonus doesn't fit, but I'm sorry, assault players have never been shy (like ever) about chiming in 24/7 on what to do with logi suits so you're just going to have to deal with it. Nobody's opinion (in a general sense) is more important than anyone elses, not even yours. Then don't say the exact same bonuses we have had since Uprising launch will suddenly make the class relevant... because its silly. this entire premise is silly.
iOwn AE Glitchers Kinsho Swords Caldari State 67	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:24:00 - [125] - Quote Nerf all weapon damage 15% Assault- 2% to light weapon damage per level Caldari Assault- 5% to shield extender efficacy per level Honestly this would balance things just fine GG was VERY easy I slay for the Empress AE is my punching bag
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 452	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:25:00 - [126] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Second fallacy with these newer bonuses, they require a module to work verses the two other races. Yes, but Amarr and Minmatar bonuses require specific weapons to work. I don't see that as a problem. Edit: Furthermore, I seriously doubt you'll see many (if any) Caldari and Gallente Assaults not using those modules anyway. Gal and Cal have a chance to align up to 4 modules in this manner thus doubling the bonuses's power even further when stacked onto of the suit's natural affinity (as they both are already similar to the bonus come 1.8) Amarr and min are stuck with 2 max benefiting (and unless the scrambler pistol is changing amarr are stuck with 1) and can only take advantage of it ONE at a time. One could argue the cal and gal bonuses are 4x more powerful than amarr and minmatar. How the heck did you become a CPM?! The reload bonus for my cal assault suit is so worthless that it would make me want my SP back, something I never thought I would say. How about ALL the assault suits get this crap bonus and then watch the tears. The bonuses recommended here are way better then their new ones. I actually thought the initial ones CCP came out with were much more in making assaults actual assaults. Don't attack IWS, he really does care about balance. Disagree all you want, but leave personal attack out of it please. Someone who feels that the new cal assault bonus is anywhere near okay and defends the new bonuses is so far off in left field that they need a wake up call. Please fix the mic bubble bug...
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2908	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:28:00 - [127] - Quote You would be right, if the regulators multiplied each other. Formula is this: 1-(.25)+(.25.87)+(.25.57) specifically for the complex regulator. The answer will get you the multiplier to whatever number your delay is. So for a complex regulator before any skills, 3 regs will get you a 1-(.25)+(.2175)+(.1425)=.39 multiplier. So you said CalAss is 5/8, so it goes to 1.95/3.12. Keep in mind that was before any additional bonuses. Now, skilling into Shield Regulation will increase the effectiveness by 10%, and the proposed Cal bonus will give an additional 50%. So .251.11.5=.4125 per complex extender. Same formula: 1-(.4125)+(.4125.87)+(.4125.57)-->1-(.4125)+(.358875)+(.235125)=1-1.0065= -.0065 multiplier. So that would make the 5/8 of the CalAss into -.0325/-.052. Though I suspect the calculation system that CCP has does not deal in negatives, so it will probably default to zero. That is how damage resistances are calculated, at least, and this is the same concept. Shield Recommendations
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1627	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:34:00 - [128] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: That is how damage resistances are calculated, at least, and this is the same concept. It is not. Damage resistance is calculated the same way as I described earlier. Modules that give percentages are always multiplied against each other, not added on top of each other. This especially ensures that stuff will never reach 0, as in the case with damage resistance, or in this case shield delay. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 668	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:55:00 - [129] - Quote Proper calc for this is (base value) * (first Module) * ((second Module) * (first stacking penalty)) * ((third Module) * (second stacking Penalty)) = final value. the final value will never be 0. thus in the most basic form it would be 5 * (.75) * (.6525) * (.4275) = 1.0460390625 this does not take into account suit or skill bonuses because I do not have them at hand right now. also always apply skill, then suit, then module bonuses Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1627	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:56:00 - [130] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: You would be right, if the regulators multiplied each other.. Furthermore, if you still don't believe me feel free to test it yourself. By your logic you would be able to achieve 100% damage resistance with two Shield Hardeners (60% + 52.2% resistance). I promise you that you will still take about 20% damage as the correct math is: 100% damage taken * 0.4 (first mod) * approx 0.478 (second mod with penalty) = approx 19.12% damage taken. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 2909	Posted - 2014.02.09 17:59:00 - [131] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: That is how damage resistances are calculated, at least, and this is the same concept. It is not. Damage resistance is calculated the same way as I described earlier. Modules that give percentages are always multiplied against each other, not added on top of each other. This especially ensures that stuff will never reach 0, as in the case with damage resistance, or in this case shield delay. Any source for this? Shield Recommendations
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1627	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:02:00 - [132] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: Logi Bro wrote: That is how damage resistances are calculated, at least, and this is the same concept. It is not. Damage resistance is calculated the same way as I described earlier. Modules that give percentages are always multiplied against each other, not added on top of each other. This especially ensures that stuff will never reach 0, as in the case with damage resistance, or in this case shield delay. Any source for this? See Heinz' post. He is a math guru. Alternatively you can test it yourself with two Shield Hardeners. Edit: Plus it should be public knowledge that mods are always multiplied against each other (or do you also believe that Damage Mods are added together? Because it's really the same math used here). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 668	Posted - 2014.02.09 18:04:00 - [133] - Quote a math guru who some times can't type properly :P Dust514 Stats, Have you updated today? I do maths, and sit in a corner.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4570	Posted - 2014.02.09 22:43:00 - [134] - Quote Edited bonuses based on my incorrect math. I changed the REGULATOR bonus for a energizer/recharger bonus. Why you may ask? WEll Caldaris recharging 400+Shields every 1 second DOES seem OP. Not only this but Gallentes have to equip their ARMOR REPAIRERS in their LOW slots, which they share with armor plates. While caldaris could use their 4 high SLots for extenders and abusing the bonus without sacrificing EHP ,unlike the gallente. Considering the equal number of high and low slots plus the homogenic HP of both suits, i decided rechargers/Energizers could use the bonus better, while avoiding abuse since using 3+ Energizers/Rechargers would result,same as the gallente with 4 armor reps, in really low EHP. NO , to the people saying this is WRONG since it forces the player to use a Module: GÖª Amarr and Min are being forced to use specific weapons tu make use of their weapons(Min Mass D,CR,SMG and FP. Amarr Laser Rifle and SCR Rifle)AND still we dont think this is bad at ALL. IT applies in similar way,except you are not being forced to use your ONLY L weapon slot to use the bonus. GÖª Amarr and Min have Bonuses that Helps them SHOOT FOR LONGER PERIODS OF TIME , while Gallente and CAl have bonuses that help them get back into battle faster. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1240	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:06:00 - [135] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: IWS before you start another PR ShitStoRM, maybe you would like to go into detail. Furthermore, from your posts it seems like you're trying to suggest that the assault role is for class cannon DPS. Is this correct? Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are. They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths. Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch. What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus. The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though. Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses. Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types. Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting. Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide. All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames. If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains. Umm how do the current Gallente bonuses fit that concept? Dispersion is only an issue in ranged combat. Low dispersion is almost a hinderance in CQC. If the Gallente assault are supposed to be CQC skirmish fighters than they should be getting either a damage bonus, a mag size bonus, or a RoF bonus. This dispersion bonus will not actually help the class at all. I already have sharpshooter 5 with the AR and another 25% reduction in dispersion isn't going to be a big help even at range. Fun > Realism
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 6815	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:09:00 - [136] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 7% Shield Energizers & Re-chargers effectiveness per level (total 35%) - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level (Total 50%) - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading Why are you giving assault survivability bonuses? Assaults are Gank, No Tank. "Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4571	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:10:00 - [137] - Quote True Adamance wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right. Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced. LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success. Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons] - Caldari Assault: 7% Shield Energizers & Re-chargers effectiveness per level (total 35%) - Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level (Total 50%) - Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level. - Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level. These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents. Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones. TY for reading Why are you giving assault survivability bonuses? Assaults are Gank, No Tank. Those are NOT tanking bonuses. Energizers/rechargers and Repairers =/= Tanking. On the contrary, im pushing towards more rapid repairs instead of high HP values. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1639	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:15:00 - [138] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I changed the REGULATOR bonus for a energizer/recharger bonus. Why you may ask? WEll Caldaris recharging 400+Shields every 1 second DOES seem OP. Why exactly? I already showed that the Regulator bonus isn't even OP in the slightest? Here's the numbers with three Complex Regulators once again (assuming 5/8 delays on Caldari Assault): With 50% bonus: 5 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 1.44 delay. 8 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 2.3 depleted delay. Without 50% bonus: 5 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 2.3 delay (less than 1 second more than with the bonus). 8 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 3.7 depleted delay (less than 1-+ second more than with the bonus). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4571	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:17:00 - [139] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I changed the REGULATOR bonus for a energizer/recharger bonus. Why you may ask? WEll Caldaris recharging 400+Shields every 1 second DOES seem OP. Why exactly? I already showed that the Regulator bonus isn't even OP in the slightest? Here's the numbers with three Complex Regulators once again (assuming 5/8 delays on Caldari Assault): With 50% bonus: 5 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 1.44 delay. 8 * 0.5875 * approx 0.6411 * approx 0.7649 = approx 2.3 depleted delay. Without 50% bonus: 5 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 2.3 delay (less than 1 second more than with the bonus). 8 * 0.725 * approx 0.761 * approx 0.843 = approx 3.7 depleted delay (less than 1-+ second more than with the bonus). YES.You did. But still= ''Not only this but Gallentes have to equip their ARMOR REPAIRERS in their LOW slots, which they share with armor plates. While caldaris could use their 4 high SLots for extenders and abusing the bonus without sacrificing EHP ,unlike the gallente. Considering the equal number of high and low slots plus the homogenic HP of both suits, i decided rechargers/Energizers could use the bonus better, while avoiding abuse since using 3+ Energizers/Rechargers would result,same as the gallente with 4 armor reps, in really low EHP.'' Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4571	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:20:00 - [140] - Quote BTW,i posted a couple of ''DPS ORIENTED'' bonuses too on the Main post in case someone is still interested in this post.... Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029

Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1642	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:24:00 - [141] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: YES.You did. But still= ''Not only this but Gallentes have to equip their ARMOR REPAIRERS in their LOW slots, which they share with armor plates. While caldaris could use their 4 high SLots for extenders and abusing the bonus without sacrificing EHP ,unlike the gallente. Considering the equal number of high and low slots plus the homogenic HP of both suits, i decided rechargers/Energizers could use the bonus better, while avoiding abuse since using 3+ Energizers/Rechargers would result,same as the gallente with 4 armor reps, in really low EHP.'' Well, in a perfect world a Caldari Assault would consist of Extenders/Rechargers/Energizers in high slots and Regulators in low slots while Gallente Assault would consist of Plates/Reps in low slots and Damage Mods in high slots. Assuming this, what would be the problem with enhancing respectively Regulators and Reps on Caldari/Gallente? Gallente should be using Reps even if they don't have a bonus, so they actually don't give up any tank if they get a bonus to them. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1642	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:28:00 - [142] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is the same reson why it could be abused. 2cx Shield ext, 3 Shield Regulators and 2 shield energizers or rechargers would result in 400HP being recharged in less than 6 seconds total. Is...way too much of an advantage, that the CALDARI SCOUT is best to abuse. Did you do the math based on your new proposed bonus? Because with a bonus to Rechargers/Energizers I think a Caldari Assault with the same fit as you listed above would recharge it's shields in about the same time as it would with a Regulator bonus (remember that even without a bonus to Regulators the shield delay would be around 2.3 and 3.7). So if you think a Regulator bonus is OP, then so would a Recharger/Energizer bonus. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 182	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:28:00 - [143] - Quote Lol iron wolf saber lost all his credibility in this thread. no idea how he became a cpm, no wonder this game is so broken. Galente are active tankers. Complex repairer should be able to get to 10 armor rep a second or slightly over that after adding in skills. Caldari desperately need a regulator buff. while medium suits are cruisers. with 1 slot no Caldari heavy will be able to rep like a drake which it should. Caldari assault needs to be able to rep quickly. Ideally we'd have mid slots also, more mods like shield/armor resistance mods and tracking mods to help turning speed on shotguns while ads. suits need a 4 bonus system like eve, if you went tech 2 you'd get two bonuses for that ships role. This is the thorax from eve: Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed That's just the basic gallente cruiser, not even tech 2, I.e. gallente medium, then you get two bonuses for going assault, or two bonuses for going logistics. The op is fine for all races as the game currently is because ccps not giving enough bonuses and assault and logistics are basically acting as the tech two stand ins for medium standard frames being tech one with no role bonuses. If iron wolf wants to give the assault suit combat bonuses and not tank bonuses, do this and give each assault suit a weapon bonus like eve would to encourage use of that weapon on the suit of the race it belongs to.
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 480	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:38:00 - [144] - Quote Works for me and everyone else. /thread AR Dmg: 34, RoF: 750 RPM, DPS: 425, RR Dmg: 55, RoF: 461 RPM, DPS: 422, + double the range. Balanced.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4574	Posted - 2014.02.09 23:42:00 - [145] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is the same reson why it could be abused. 2cx Shield ext, 3 Shield Regulators and 2 shield energizers or rechargers would result in 400HP being recharged in less than 6 seconds total. Is...way too much of an advantage, that the CALDARI SCOUT is best to abuse. Did you do the math based on your new proposed bonus? Because with a bonus to Rechargers/Energizers I think a Caldari Assault with the same fit as you listed above would recharge it's shields in about the same time as it would with a Regulator bonus (remember that even without a bonus to Regulators the shield delay would be around 2.3 and 3.7). So if you think a Regulator bonus is OP, then so would a Recharger/Energizer bonus. You ARE CORRECT. And im a dumbass. I really dont care if caldaris recharge at 0 secs XD . I like the regulator bonus and think its useful its staying, re edited the post. Please give your opinion on the 2 ''DPS'' bonuses i added as alternatives for gal and CAl. We still can ALL Agree they are way better, way more balanced than what CCP is currently proposing. Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 185	Posted - 2014.02.10 00:15:00 - [146] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is the same reson why it could be abused. 2cx Shield ext, 3 Shield Regulators and 2 shield energizers or rechargers would result in 400HP being recharged in less than 6 seconds total. Is...way too much of an advantage, that the CALDARI SCOUT is best to abuse. Did you do the math based on your new proposed bonus? Because with a bonus to Rechargers/Energizers I think a Caldari Assault with the same fit as you listed above would recharge it's shields in about the same time as it would with a Regulator bonus (remember that even without a bonus to Regulators the shield delay would be around 2.3 and 3.7). So if you think a Regulator bonus is OP, then so would a Recharger/Energizer bonus. You ARE CORRECT. And im a dumbass. I really dont care if caldaris recharge at 0 secs XD . I like the regulator bonus and think its useful its staying, re edited the post. Please give your opinion on the 2 ''DPS'' bonuses i added as alternatives for gal and CAl. We still can ALL Agree they are way better, way more balanced than what CCP is currently proposing. The original bonuses in your OP were great. A fully dedicated shield tank with nothing but regs in lows shoul be able to rep passively. That's how the Caldari play.
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4586	Posted - 2014.02.10 01:00:00 - [147] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is the same reson why it could be abused. 2cx Shield ext, 3 Shield Regulators and 2 shield energizers or rechargers would result in 400HP being recharged in less than 6 seconds total. Is...way too much of an advantage, that the CALDARI SCOUT is best to abuse. Did you do the math based on your new proposed bonus? Because with a bonus to Rechargers/Energizers I think a Caldari Assault with the same fit as you listed above would recharge it's shields in about the same time as it would with a Regulator bonus (remember that even without a bonus to Regulators the shield delay would be around 2.3 and 3.7). So if you think a Regulator bonus is OP, then so would a Recharger/Energizer bonus. You ARE CORRECT. And im a dumbass. I really dont care if caldaris recharge at 0 secs XD . I like the regulator bonus and think its useful its staying, re edited the post. Please give your opinion on the 2 ''DPS'' bonuses i added as alternatives for gal and CAl. We still can ALL Agree they are way better, way more balanced than what CCP is currently proposing. The original bonuses in your OP were great. A fully dedicated shield tank with nothing but regs in lows shoul be able to rep passively. That's how the Caldari play. THanks! i am still waiting to see what people think of my new DPS oriented bonuses. Hell... a Duvolle with 90 bullets,sounds fun Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 246	Posted - 2014.02.10 01:55:00 - [148] - Quote ooooh yeahhhhh.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 22	Posted - 2014.02.10 01:59:00 - [149] - Quote if they are not going to put the heat mechanic on the RR then the laser heat mechanic needs to go so a proper amarr bonus would be, 5% armor resistance to all damage per level (since gallente get 10% to armor repairs)
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 186	Posted - 2014.02.10 02:31:00 - [150] - Quote Dunce Masterson wrote: if they are not going to put the heat mechanic on the RR then the laser heat mechanic needs to go so a proper amarr bonus would be, 5% armor resistance to all damage per level (since gallente get 10% to armor repairs) no rail technology fires through magnets, no need for overheating. though legitimate damage resistances need to be introduced. all suits should have em, explosive, kinetic, and thermal resistances for shields and armor as base stats that varies depending on suit function and race. im fine with an amarr suit having both tbh, not many people are good with laser weapons as it is anyway. an amount of damage resistance and the heat reduction bonus would be ideal.

bogeyman m Learning Coalition College 78	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:20:00 - [151] - Quote A lot of good discussion on this topic, but I'd still prefer Racial bonuses to be tanking related and Assault variants to be ganking related. I also think they should all be passive bonuses as adding multipliers to modules gets too easily out of hand. For example: Passive Racial bonuses - survival oriented: - Amarr: shield & armour capacity increases - Caldari: shield recharge rate increase - Gallenti: armour repair rate increase - Minmatar: time-to-start shield recharge reduction, time-to-start armour repair reduction, biotics increase Passive Assault bonus - racial weapon specific: - Amarr: overheat protection & larger clip sizes - Caldari: faster ADS, weaker hip-fire, longer range - Gallenti: better hip-fire, slower ADS, faster reload - Minmatar: increased rate of fire I'll leave the specific numbers up to the smart guys, but whatever balances out the game play without making every suit the same would be ideal and would promote diversity on the battlefield.
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 2855	Posted - 2014.02.10 07:41:00 - [152] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: A lot of good discussion on this topic, but I'd still prefer Racial bonuses to be tanking related and Assault variants to be ganking related. I also think they should all be passive bonuses as adding multipliers to modules gets too easily out of hand. For example: Passive Racial bonuses - survival oriented: - Amarr: shield & armour capacity increases - Caldari: shield recharge rate increase - Gallenti: armour repair rate increase - Minmatar: time-to-start shield recharge reduction, time-to-start armour repair reduction, biotics increase Passive Assault bonus - racial weapon specific: - Amarr: overheat protection & larger clip sizes - Caldari: faster ADS, weaker hip-fire, longer range - Gallenti: better hip-fire, slower ADS, faster reload - Minmatar: increased rate of fire I'll leave the specific numbers up to the smart guys, but whatever balances out the game play without making every suit the same would be ideal and would promote diversity on the battlefield. I stopped reading after that. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
David Spd Caldari State 133	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:20:00 - [153] - Quote Neo Rinzler wrote: Caldari Weapons already have a reload skill, 1/2 a second faster reload than another suit using the same weapon is NOT a good enough reason to use the Caldari Assault 3.2 to 2.04 with max reload and max cal assault or 2.62 with just max reload skill Seriously 2.04 v 2.62 ..... 2 Million extra SP for 0.58 faster reload ?? This is why it is such a terrible bonus in fact I wouldn't even waste SP skilling the damn thing to Proto I'd just use the basic Caldari Assault suit .. that is how pointless a reload skill bonus is You're describing an entirely different issue. The usefulness of an extremely fast reload in addition to the base reload skill vs. the actual cost to get to that point. Not only that but you're assuming that each opponent you go up against will have maxed reload as well. If all you can say is "rail rifle has a reload skill and this skill is pointless" then I'm sorry but I'm done replying to you. Seems you've decided what you've decided, but sad to say repeating yourself over and over doesn't strengthen your argument. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 58	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:34:00 - [154] - Quote how about we WAIT for 1.8 to come out, see how everything plays out, AND THEN come onto the forums complaining for an assault suit rebalance IF you still dont like it. as of right now, i think the bonuses allow for players to pick the assault fighting style they can work best with. it gives them a choice of being a fast recovery assault, tanky assault, high damage assault, or anything in between. what is being sugested here, and in all other topics like this, favors fast recovery assault suits.
David Spd Caldari State 133	Posted - 2014.02.10 11:43:00 - [155] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Lol iron wolf saber lost all his credibility in this thread. no idea how he became a cpm, no wonder this game is so broken. Galente are active tankers. Complex repairer should be able to get to 10 armor rep a second or slightly over that after adding in skills. Caldari desperately need a regulator buff. while medium suits are cruisers. with 1 slot no Caldari heavy will be able to rep like a drake which it should. Caldari assault needs to be able to rep quickly. Ideally we'd have mid slots also, more mods like shield/armor resistance mods and tracking mods to help turning speed on shotguns while ads. suits need a 4 bonus system like eve, if you went tech 2 you'd get two bonuses for that ships role. This is the thorax from eve: Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed That's just the basic gallente cruiser, not even tech 2, I.e. gallente medium, then you get two bonuses for going assault, or two bonuses for going logistics. The op is fine for all races as the game currently is because ccps not giving enough bonuses and assault and logistics are basically acting as the tech two stand ins for medium standard frames being tech one with no role bonuses. If iron wolf wants to give the assault suit combat bonuses and not tank bonuses, do this and give each assault suit a weapon bonus like eve would to encourage use of that weapon on the suit of the race it belongs to. Yeah let's just copy everything over from EVE Online and expect it to translate perfectly well. I don't play EVE but as far as I know it's not a twitch-based skill shooter. You can't just lob a bunch of offensive or defensive tank bonuses into passive skills and expect everybody to be pleased. As a first person shooter if you are better at the game than your opponent then it needs to show. Dust is supposed to be faster paced, and we're all ready seeing a low population thanks to the game requiring months of dedicated play to actually be competitive with skill investments. Not only this but Dust 514 has insane competition when it comes to the genre. As an EVE Online player tell me what kinds of modern games do you have to play as alternatives? Any? I believe there's some kind of saying in New Eden along the lines of "Adapt or Die"? Something like that. Dust needs to do just that. EVE Online should be used as a rough concept to take inspiration from, not be the base fundamentals upon which this game is built. Also the idea of making "tracking" mods on any first person shooter is ridiculous. This was one of the prime issues of Heavies being broken UP before Uprising: the restriction of turning speed. In a game where fast-paced twitch based skill is key, a heavy was a waste of a suit, since they couldn't turn fast enough to hit anything. The only "tracking" that needs to be in a console FPS is aim-assist, and people *** up a storm about even that. "Mandatory" aim-assist ON A MOD would make people furious because it eliminates the need for SKILL in a SKILL BASED GENRE. And semi-unrelated to this quote more directed at OP: I find Regulator bonus to be much more fitting to Caldari Assault, but I was never directly opposed to reload bonus either. Both bonuses support the same concept of hit & move gameplay I think supports the Assaults well. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <--** "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
Auris Lionesse Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 186	Posted - 2014.02.10 16:48:00 - [156] - Quote David Spd wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Lol iron wolf saber lost all his credibility in this thread. no idea how he became a cpm, no wonder this game is so broken. Galente are active tankers. Complex repairer should be able to get to 10 armor rep a second or slightly over that after adding in skills. Caldari desperately need a regulator buff. while medium suits are cruisers. with 1 slot no Caldari heavy will be able to rep like a drake which it should. Caldari assault needs to be able to rep quickly. Ideally we'd have mid slots also, more mods like shield/armor resistance mods and tracking mods to help turning speed on shotguns while ads. suits need a 4 bonus system like eve, if you went tech 2 you'd get two bonuses for that ships role. This is the thorax from eve: Gallente Cruiser skill bonus per level: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed That's just the basic gallente cruiser, not even tech 2, I.e. gallente medium, then you get two bonuses for going assault, or two bonuses for going logistics. The op is fine for all races as the game currently is because ccps not giving enough bonuses and assault and logistics are basically acting as the tech two stand ins for medium standard frames being tech one with no role bonuses. If iron wolf wants to give the assault suit combat bonuses and not tank bonuses, do this and give each assault suit a weapon bonus like eve would to encourage use of that weapon on the suit of the race it belongs to. Yeah let's just copy everything over from EVE Online and expect it to translate perfectly well. I don't play EVE but as far as I know it's not a twitch-based skill shooter. You can't just lob a bunch of offensive or defensive tank bonuses into passive skills and expect everybody to be pleased. As a first person shooter if you are better at the game than your opponent then it needs to show. Dust is supposed to be faster paced, and we're all ready seeing a low population thanks to the game requiring months of dedicated play to actually be competitive with skill investments. Not only this but Dust 514 has insane competition when it comes to the genre. As an EVE Online player tell me what kinds of modern games do you have to play as alternatives? Dust needs to evolve beyond the "constraints" of EVE Online to appeal to a different audience. EVE Online should be used as a rough concept to take inspiration from, not be the base fundamentals upon which this game is built. Also the idea of making "tracking" mods on any first person shooter is ridiculous. This was one of the prime issues of Heavies being broken UP before Uprising: the restriction of turning speed. In a game where fast-paced twitch based skill is key, a heavy was a waste of a suit, since they couldn't turn fast enough to hit anything. Which is why the restriction was removed. That means people with better aim in a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER will do better. The only "tracking" that needs to be in a console FPS is aim-assist to help with the general inaccuracies of using joysticks with our thumbs, and people ***** up a storm about even that. "Mandatory" aim-assist with increasing strengths ON MODS would make people furious because it eliminates the need for SKILL in a SKILL BASED GENRE. And before someone quotes me saying EVE Online requires skill.. yes... I know all video games require some level of skill. These aren't the same skills we're talking about. Different genres = different skills required. You can be the best EVE Online player in the world... and be terrible at Dust 514 and vice versa. And semi-unrelated to this quote more directed at OP: I find Regulator bonus to be much more fitting to Caldari Assault, but I was never directly opposed to reload bonus either. Both bonuses support the same concept of hit & move gameplay I think supports the Assaults well. You already invalidated your entire post within your first paragraph because dust is not supposed to be a twitch based shooter. It's an extension of eve online on the console in the form of an fps. this game is not tryin to compete with cod it's supposed to be an mmo first with deep interaction with eve. Second I never suggested or even remotely hinted at tracking mods tracking a target. I said improve ads turn spee for weapons that are currently too slow such as the shotgun. learn to read. This game is failing because it's not enough like eve which has grown year after year. Why would people pay 15$ a month on a more complex and difficult and unfair game? Because eves formula works/!: this hodgepodge they've created with dust doesn't which is why they can't even get people to play it for free. Without eve online dust does not and should not exist. this isn't call of duty so twitch shooter shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as dust lol. This game is about tactics strategy and metagame. Not going 40-0 with your sensitivity maxed out.
Oswald Rehnquist 1237	Posted - 2014.02.10 19:13:00 - [157] - Quote A weapon bonus for the Caldari should be ADS related 5% to effective range of rail weapons while ADSing 5% to ADS Disruption and Kick Good Thread of Cal users dicussion ideas Below 28 dB
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1434	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:13:00 - [158] - Quote Amarr and Minmatar bonuses don't increase DPS, just max damage before reload/overheat. The Caldari bonus goes in line with this, but from the other side, so it kinda works.... but is weak. The Gallente bonus just doesn't help that much at all. Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1434	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:32:00 - [159] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: This is the same reson why it could be abused. 2cx Shield ext, 3 Shield Regulators and 2 shield energizers or rechargers would result in 400HP being recharged in less than 6 seconds total. Is...way too much of an advantage, that the CALDARI SCOUT is best to abuse. Did you do the math based on your new proposed bonus? Because with a bonus to Rechargers/Energizers I think a Caldari Assault with the same fit as you listed above would recharge it's shields in about the same time as it would with a Regulator bonus (remember that even without a bonus to Regulators the shield delay would be around 2.3 and 3.7). So if you think a Regulator bonus is OP, then so would a Recharger/Energizer bonus. I'd rather have a fast charge regulator Caldari than the brick tanking BS they do now. Where is my Gallente sidearm? 1.8? When is that? SoonGäó514 "No blue tags make Tallen go crazy."
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 184	Posted - 2014.02.10 22:57:00 - [160] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: I'd rather have a fast charge regulator Caldari than the brick tanking BS they do now. No, Gal has the damn brick tank, the damn milita suit gets like 800 some tank with just enhanced plates. Plus a Damage mod if you put one point into Assault class. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!



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