Because the Min can use SPEED to their advantage, nullifying the need for extreme tank.

The amarr have DPS becasue they have already the most HP of any assault with 450 EHP without modules at lv 5 passives.


CAl and Gal DONT have these advantages.

Mr IWS, have you ever heard the saying:

''the best offense is a good defense'' ?

The more HP you have , the longer you can fight........

Speed Tanking is Dead AA killed it... sorry please try again,
I'd rather see a Defense oriented assault and a offense oriented assault of every race... but let's get an offensive variant first before a defensive variant.

The quicker the enemy dies the less you have to tank in the first place.

I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right.
Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced.

LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators
- Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.


These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents.

Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones.

TY for reading

More HP is always situational though even in the old TTK environments more HP was rather situational because there are so many times that extra 120 hp was not going to save your posterior.

More HP is always situational though even in the old TTK environments more HP was rather situational because there are so many times that extra 120 hp was not going to save your posterior.

You don't run Cal or Gal Assault with their racial rifles in PC correct? I don't want the bonuses CCP is offering but I don't like the ones you're offering either. I want a gank bonus to the Gal and Cal Assaults.

Its more about presenting a hostile presence and the ability to keep the pressure up on the enemy, which is why the bonuses are they way they are.

They're about keeping fire on the enemy either longer amount of time (minmatar amarr) or lowering the gaps of calmness if one had to find another name for the class id be that akin to harassment. Thus while it is an attack class its more of an attack support class more than anything designed to augment defensive or offensive positions while other classes pursue their strengths.

Plasma weaponry is supposed to be a bit more unwieldy than currently experienced but is also supposed to pack a far harder punch.

What some people are forgetting the gallente bonus is going to apply to the pr hipfire, shotgun, and ion pistol which is most likely the weapons of choice for most assaults. While true the plasma cannon won't be benefiting the assault frame is not the best home for it either. Quite a few weapons do excessively poor in a run and gun situation; this is where the gallente assault will shine and will be an absolute nightmare in cqc as he is going to go full speed strafing instead of taking that deadly critical second to ads and get shot up. Gal assault will probably get the most dynamic change in game play because of his bonus.

The currently suggested bonuses fit better with each race as is though.

Gallente is more of an urbanized cqc fighter and is able to storm interiors with little problems with his lightweight but armor defenses.

Caldari Assaults is more of a patrol and point defender able to keep people from crossing a street and ensuring that there is little to no gaps between reloading their limited magazine weapons. Caldari weapons also have some of the longer reloading times to account for their longer ranges usually. The time of reload is nearly that to close the gap and get within optimal of other weapon types.

Minmatar blow through ammo like nobody's business and the bonus will ensure he can keep fighting.

Amarr same deal with lesser chance of suicide.

All of these bonuses indirectly increase DPS by a set amount not for the 5 second engagement window but the entire potential damage over an entire minute time frames.

If you want a tanky medium class suggest it for the type Bs or another class even. Assaults have plenty of slots to already support a hefty tank as is in their class and these bonuses are irreplaceable. There are currently no modules that replace any of these bonuses. Where as with the suggest bonuses there are suits, and modules that would nullify or match suggested gains.

These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon.

The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns.

But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault.

I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right.
Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced.

LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: +5% effectiveness on Shield Extenders and Regulators
- Gallente Assault: +5% effectiveness to Armor plates and Repairers
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.


These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents.

Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones.

TY for reading

I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table.

These bonuses to indeed increase the DPS of the respective weapons by minimizing the time spent not firing, but this is not the case for the AR. A reduction in dispersion and kick can actually hinder it's ability to apply DPS by making the gun more laser accurate and thus more aiming required. I personally refuse to increase sharpshooter on my AR because that dispersion is essential to how I use the weapon.

The Minmatar bonus is by far the best bonus when it comes to continuous dps, the ACR alone can maintain 164 rounds every 10 seconds. While the Caldari bonus gives the Rail rifle the best reload speed of all the guns.

But the Gallente is by far the worst bonus because it doesn't build upon a weakness or a strength of the gun. The best bonuses for the AR would be a rof/reload/damage/clip. Dispersion and kick are definitely NOT good bonuses, like I said previously dispersion is necessary for a CQC weapon, while kick is easily managed on any weapon. Also I don't know what you mean by the Gallente can go "full strafe" it's tanking style is very detrimental to that form of gameplay, in fact that gameplay style is best suited to the Minmatar Assault.

While I think the Gallente and Caldari bonuses are lacking, I would prefer if they stayed with offensive bonuses instead of defensive bonuses, since that is what assaults are about. I agree with IWS.

Regarding the Caldari bonus specifically. I don't think the reload bonus is nearly as appealing as some of the others, I would bundle (kind of like how Minmatar scout is getting hacking speed and knife damage bundled in one bonus) it with an ammo reserves bonus, and a kick reduction bonus to make it more useful. Maybe even an effective range bonus, if the rail weapons get an effective range reduction to compensate. I guess I would also be fine with the reload bonus being bundled with a 3% shield module efficacy or recharge bonus, as long as they also keep a weapon related bonus for hybrid-railgun weapons.

As for the Gallente bonus, The dispersion thing might be useful for the AR, shotgun, and ion pistol (a good majority of the Gallente weapons), but I'm not exactly sure how useful it is; it certainly pales in comparison to the Minmatar and Amarr bonus. Perhaps bonus bundling should also be done for the Gallente bonus, or just give it a ROF bonus.

The gallente bonus is the best bonus of them all.....

Please remember that TTK is getting raised.

I don't want TTK to get raised and then watch Cal Assaults and Gal Assaults eHP stacking so high it will take 2 clips to take them down.

Dump the Extender and Plate bonus and put something else on, Regulators and Repairers are what need buffs anyways.

Even with as messed up as it initially sounds, I also found this statement to make a hell of a lot of sense.

Since you specifically said "plates and extenders", does this mean you are against the idea of say... Regulators or Rechargers?

In my opinion Assaults being "combat oriented" also means that.. theoretically they are exposed to more direct combat than other suits. I'm a Caldari Assault main that prefers mid to long ranged engagements (and was even during the "Slayer Logi" debacle) I find faster and more efficient shield recharge to be surprisingly more effective for "skirmish" type play than simply attempting to "out-tank" your opponent. As a Caldari using a Caldari Rifle, I was a lot better at doing what I was "supposed to" with this type of fitting.

Obviously not having bonuses to Extenders as Caldari kind of sucks, but at the same time we shouldn't be in the kind of situations where extender stacking is absolutely necessary to ensure survival. Hopefully 1.8 will shift suit roles and playstyles into a much more..."focused" area than currently.


I may come off as a bit arrogant with my next statement, and with the game being as messed up as it is I am somewhat wrong, but at the same time I feel like I need to say it.

Assaults (Caldari in particular) need a mixture of damage, defense and mobility to do what they need to do. Just enough survival to not be scouts, and just enough damage to not be Sentinels. We have to sacrifice something, and the current build's "Stack defenses or die without doing anything" is a part of the messed up time to kill.

As far as I understand it, the logic behind the Caldari reload is to encourage aggression and "Assault" type gameplay. We don't know 100% what the TTK is going to be in 1.8, nor do we know how all these moving parts are going to affect one another. At first glance the reload bonus seems a bit pointless, but at the same time it may both be necessary to compensate for the Rail Rifle nerf, and also help Caldari soldiers keep pressure on their targets at the distance the weapon is intended to be used. Caldari typically have higher shields than the other races (if EVE is the example that is being followed) so we all ready start ahead of them in terms of immediate defenses.

CCP seems to be building suit bonuses under the impression that you're going to be playing as a certain race, wielding that race's weapon. So Caldari will have a powerful mid-ranged weapon, higher base shields and be able to reload their weapon faster than most other races (thanks to the bonus). The Rail rifle tends to reload fairly slowly without heavy skill investment otherwise. That to me sounds like quite a dangerous combination.

The only way it would be underwhelming is if you're playing the game in 1.8 the way you play the game now: as a frontline Caldari soldier stacking shield extenders and nothing else. Think outside the box for a little while. Read some of the other threads CCP has made, and try looking up Iron Wolf Saber's thread about the mantras. Also keep in mind that IWS has access to information that WE don't, and also tends to drop some clues about content under NDA that has more than once landed him in hot water. He's trying to tell us, a lot of people are just really not paying attention or listening.

CCP has always called Dust 514 a "thinking man's shooter" but there hasn't been a whole lot of anything to think about. I get the feeling 1.8 will change that based on the information we've been getting so far.

Yet the math nerds would counter argue that your bonuses are too vastly superior to the amarr and minmatar ones and will instantly trash can the army doctrines about wearing anything else.

Gallente AS With Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun, and Ion Pistol vs Caldari AS with Plasma Rifle, Plasma Shotgun and Ion Pistol - Rounding corner scenario no ADS 3 meter engagement

Caldari if the dispersion is reduced enough it is easy for the Caldari to outstrafe Aim Assist while maintaining hipfiring on the slower Gallente. Plasma shotgun the Gallente wins because of higher HP, ion pistol well nobody really there isn't enough damage on the clip for it to kill, if the shot is charged and both it then it really depends on the primary weapon so nobody in this case.

Caldari AS With Sniper Rifle, Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol vs Gallente AS with Rail Rifle, MagSec, and Bolt Pistol cover to cover engagement scenario long range

Sniper rifle it is who sees who first so this can go to anybody. Rail rifle it's is tied because there is enough damage in the clip to kill either suit. Magsec smg probably the Caldari, bolt pistol probably Caldari depends on damage per clip, but if both are strafing then the reload will help bump the scenario to the caldari.

Minmatar AS with Combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver, and Flaylock vs Amarr AS combat Rifle, SMG, Mass Driver and FLaylock bunker to bunker fight

minmatar, minmatar, minmatar, ???? Don't know how flay lock will work.

Amarr AS with Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle vs Minmatar AS Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle defense point in preventing a rush.

Amarr

Run the numbers.

To clarify a bit of translation : Assaults are not supposed to be ones being the ones exposed to combat, they're the ones exposing others to combat. HP recoverability would be more in theme in this as it less down time taking a breather before pressuring back on the enemy again but this is better saved for type 2s if that ever happened again which unfortunately until their icde happens is not looking good on the forecast.

I disagree with these bonuses. Assaults are combat oriented. Thus things like plates and extenders are off the table.

I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right.
Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced.

LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level
- Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.


These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents.

Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones.

TY for reading

I personally thank you for all the effort CCP is doing in getting the Dropsuits right.
Now it seems every time you ''redo'' something you leave some players not convinced.

LEt me make your JOB EASIER and give you the formula for ASSAULT Success.

Assault [5% reduction to PG/CPU cost of light/sidearm weapons]
- Caldari Assault: 10% Shield regulator effectiveness per level
- Gallente Assault: 10% Armor Repairer effectiveness per level
- Minmatar Assault: +5% to projectile light/sidearm and +1 to Minmatar explosive weaponry clip size per level.
- Amarr Assault: 5% reduction to laser weaponry heat build-up per level.


These are bonuses EVERYONE will be happy to have in their assault and will give these med frames offensive/defensive advantages over their opponents.

Either the ones i proposed or GIVE all of them Weapon specific bonuses like the Amarr and Minmatar ones.


TY for reading